The Plot of the Wheel of Time TV Show Doesn't Make Sense

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Amy Stewart

Amy Stewart

2 жыл бұрын

#TheWheelofTime TV Show is disappointing because books fans were buttered up to believe that this show would be more of a faithful adaptation made by fans of the books who care about this story than it actually turned out to be. I don't know the Showrunner Rafe Judkins, but the more I hear, the more I doubt he has actually read all the books, or, if he did, that he understood the philosophy behind them, likes them, or gets why the story is popular. The plot of season one is a mess. The Dragon, The Dragon Reborn, and the Dark One have all been changed. The magic system is unexplained. The lore has been altered to be unrecognizable. This show isn't an adaptation -- it's a complete rewrite, and the reasons are obfuscated. I am a liberal feminist saying this: The TV show does not present a world with gender equality. It is not inclusive. It leaves out men. There are no male heroes in season one of this story. Overall, this season is a disappointment. I hope they do better for season two.

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@patricksmith8262
@patricksmith8262 2 жыл бұрын
Essentially, Amazon spent $100m to produce bad fan fiction.
@mgntstr
@mgntstr 2 жыл бұрын
entirely sourced from woke tax credits
@TheHEAVYDAN
@TheHEAVYDAN 2 жыл бұрын
you'd think they could have spent some on a showrunner that wasn't obsessed with trying to "prove he is smarter than jordan"...i mean he has proven the opposite but he is still obsessed with it.
@gilian2587
@gilian2587 2 жыл бұрын
Several news sites claim he did improve on the source material. An audience score of 64% on rotten tomatoes would imply otherwise.
@patricksmith8262
@patricksmith8262 2 жыл бұрын
​@@gilian2587 TBF, those "news" sites are mostly the click-bait types which pay next to nothing to random millennials just to have filler for clicks. The 'top critic' score on RT is 54% and their reviews are pretty scathing. Hollywood Reporter: I never felt like I was watching an unfolding story, but I absolutely felt like I was watching the whiteboard in a writers room, more the pushing of note cards toward a destination than an adventure. RogerEbert: It's hard to get lost in this world when it feels so emotionally distant, so scattered, and so packed with thin plotlines. Variety: This premise would, on its face, seem to lend itself well to episodic drama. And yet the series, created by Rafe Judkins, finds itself stranded on various morasses. Rolling Stone: [It] may bring in some fantasy fans starved for any morsel of magic and wonder. But the whole thing is empty, if expensive, calories.
@TheHEAVYDAN
@TheHEAVYDAN 2 жыл бұрын
@@gilian2587 several news sites report a lot of things that i wouldn't trust lol.
@Dovieandi_Se_Tovya_Sagain
@Dovieandi_Se_Tovya_Sagain 2 жыл бұрын
I read these books in highschool. At the time my Dad had just passed. When reading the series I gravitated to scenes where Lan trained the boys or when Thom taught the boys about the world. Or when you see how much Tam loves Rand when he flips out at Cadsuane for what they done to him. The show honestly makes me sad because we don't get any male figures that someone could look up to. I really don't care what there reasons are for changing it. They did change it and it sucks that I feel this way that is my favorite series. I don't want to have negative thoughts about something that got me through a really hard time.
@deusvermiculus1072
@deusvermiculus1072 2 жыл бұрын
while i get that you dont care about the reason they did this, it IS important to call it out so that this will finally stop. This was a politically motivated group of grifters, that bastardized a beloved setting only so they could pander to and attract the anti-male extremists on social media. The showrunner didnt care about the story, the plot or the world. They cared about the outward appearance of it, the pull behind its name and the way they could use it to virtue signal to secure their place withint the ideological hive that is modern Media. Mark my words: these guys will get more role, more shows and more money. NOT because they were successful (they weren't) but because they signaled the right politics and worldview with this, and therefore hav secured the favor of higher ups that share those views. if you dont want this to be done to other great settings, it better be called out. Remember that the SAME Amazon that gave you THIS, are also right now creating an "adaptation" of the Lord of the rings Simmarillion...and they have ALREADY inserted a new female character, who is going to be a sister to an (formerly) important male character of the books. WHAT do you think is going to happen now?
@Dovieandi_Se_Tovya_Sagain
@Dovieandi_Se_Tovya_Sagain 2 жыл бұрын
@@deusvermiculus1072 I agree with what you say. However my comment was to the people trying to dismiss the "wokeness" or whatever you want to call it. What they can't deny is the fact it is changed. For alot of people this is the first time they are seeing this done to an IP they love so they are not going to jump to the woke conclusion so fast. And just shoving it down there throats isn't going to get them to change their minds. All I want is faithful adaptations of IPs people love. I'm tired of companies buying rights to beloved works of art just for a built in fan base then throwing that fan base under the bus.
@deusvermiculus1072
@deusvermiculus1072 2 жыл бұрын
@@Dovieandi_Se_Tovya_Sagain its the new get rich quick scheme for the shareholders, and a long wanted chance to "deconstruct" "Problematic" stories and myths for the political activists. Shit like the ESG then compound this shit and make it incredibly slow to die... pray that your favorite setting will simply be overlooked. the ONLY other thing you CAN do is: - call it out for what it is - then dont talk about it in any way anymore and dont consume media regarding it. ONLY that way do they truly die (like the He-Man debacle): Apathy. It hurts. But if they come for your setting you HAVE to abandon it. immeadiatly remove any incentive for them to further leech onto the carcess of what you once loved. Secure as much of the old stuff as you can and DO NOT WATCH the shit they out out, so you wont taint your enjoyment of the original material (like it has done for Star Wars for many fans)
@merc9nine
@merc9nine 2 жыл бұрын
Yes. This. They ruined all the men
@dannicatzer305
@dannicatzer305 2 жыл бұрын
As a fan I couldn't agree more... what was done to the male characters in this was bizarre.. The female characters in the books were always strong characters in their own right there was zero need to side line the main male characters to show just how completely awesome the female characters were and how useless/cowardly/stupid the men were. I suffered through the first series but I'm done with this show.
@lokdog257
@lokdog257 2 жыл бұрын
Books: inclusive and diverse Amazon: we're making a show Fans: it better be faithful Show: insert political narrative Fans: its not faithful Amazon: you just don't like diversity 🙄🙄🤮🤮
@DmGray
@DmGray 2 жыл бұрын
^ this.
@Lucian1227
@Lucian1227 2 жыл бұрын
This. I feel this to my core.
@wheelhouse15
@wheelhouse15 Жыл бұрын
It should be noted that Lanfear started the war of power. Her lust for power led to her and her partner (who was not a forsaken) boring into the Dark One's prison. In Rafe's version the world was peaceful until some arrogant man tried to cage the Dark One somehow causing the men to go mad and break the world. But yeah, it's just we don't like diversity.
@frocat5163
@frocat5163 9 ай бұрын
@@wheelhouse15 *"Her lust for power led to her and her partner (who was not a forsaken) boring into the Dark One's prison"* I'm not sure that's fully accurate. Over the past decade, I've either read the series, or listened to the audiobooks of the series, at least once a year. At the time the Bore was made, there were no Forsaken. Mierin was one of the two researchers who bored into the Dark One's prison, yes, but at that point in history, no one even knew the Dark One existed. Furthermore, pretty much _all_ Aes Sedai at that time had come to believe the gender split between Saidar and Saidin had become a hinderance to further advancement. Mierin certainly worked on her project for several selfish reasons, the greatest of which was gaining a third name for being the one who found a power source both genders could access, equally.
@wheelhouse15
@wheelhouse15 9 ай бұрын
@@frocat5163 There were hints that she actually knew what she was really doing, although it was not entirely clear if she understood the consequences. Based on the fact she lusted after power and survived the boring, to become one of the first Forsaken, I would say she probably was aware of the Dark One by that time she completed her research and bored into the prison.
@facepwnagewtf
@facepwnagewtf 2 жыл бұрын
IMHO as far as trying to empower women on this show the writers completely missed to mark. The Wheel of time already had some of the best female characters in fantasy history particularly Egwene who has my favorite ark in the whole saga. The writers have completely over corrected trying to empower the women in the show. They perform unbelievable feats of power or straight up steal roles from their male counterparts, and with no training or buildup they have unintentionally turned the women into a Mary Sue archetype. It's also turned the men specifically Rand, Matt and Perrin into subservient weaklings. Even the shows main character Moiraine cant keep to her own logic throughout the show and she's supposed to be one of the most intelligent characters. There's a saying that you can't write a character more intelligent than you are, which is probably why Moiraine seems significantly dumb down in this show compared to the books.
@drewcipher
@drewcipher 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed but also @al'Thors Taint what a name 😂
@g2024_
@g2024_ 2 жыл бұрын
Agree
@ryadinstormblessed8308
@ryadinstormblessed8308 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, it even shows up in the minor characters. In the books, Bran Al'Vere and Marin Al'Vere have such an admirable relationship and each have their own authority and power that is very well balanced. In the show, Bran is a weak pansy who gets stepped on. Similar with Ila and Raen, where instead of 2 strong characters who work well together and make each other stronger, we have a powerful woman and a man who can't even speak up to do his role as the Madhi of his people & had to have his opening welcome speech stepped on and taken over.
@drewcipher
@drewcipher 2 жыл бұрын
@@ryadinstormblessed8308 iirc Ila is the Mahdi in the show. Not even the tinkers can be lead by a man.
@ryadinstormblessed8308
@ryadinstormblessed8308 2 жыл бұрын
@@drewcipher Yeah, whichever one they gave the title to, I just remember that Raen starts to welcome them, then hesitates with a look on his face like he can't quite get the words out, then Ila steps in with a very patient look at her husband and seems to finish for him.
@Koronin
@Koronin 2 жыл бұрын
This show was not just a bad adaptation, it was a bad show. Who wrote this stuff? Very soft magic system, main characters are mary sues and I guess they wanted a season long mystery for something.... They reveal the mystery by using the tired old "Here's something we didn't show you in a scene the first time, so HAHA!" Just inconsistent all around; If you channel in the ways, it will be certain death. 2 minutes later, Mary sue channels no problem. Do not touch anything in the blight, but go ahead and touch anything. This is how they write for the entire season. It's clear Amazon did not pay the iron price for this show.
@Mahalleinir
@Mahalleinir 2 жыл бұрын
I feel the only reason they made sure to go to Tar Valon was merely so Rosamund Pike can have her adventures in episode 6. It comes at the expense of Camlyn, most of the plot, and 2/8 episodes.
@theawebster1505
@theawebster1505 2 жыл бұрын
I seriously wonder why there is so much sex in this show. I mean, Rand and Egwene, ookay, but then Moiraine and Suan? WTF. Since when is "pillow buddies" equal to hard sex?? That is just insane. Actually, at the moment when Moiraine kissed Suan, I knew I was forever done with this show.
@Mahalleinir
@Mahalleinir 2 жыл бұрын
@@theawebster1505 i could see it coming a light year away so I guess I was so prepared for it that it didn’t even bother me but yeah agree
@makoygaara
@makoygaara 2 жыл бұрын
@@theawebster1505 it was cringy asf. And the warders are also into it. Not all viewers are comfortable with it. Game of Throne wannabe.
@AdderTude
@AdderTude 2 жыл бұрын
@@theawebster1505 Except the relationship with Rand and Egwene in the books was always a "will they, won't they" situation for a long time.
@darkhighwayman1757
@darkhighwayman1757 2 жыл бұрын
I like Rosamund but I think the actress who played Jessica in Dune would have been better.
@AlokTalekar
@AlokTalekar 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely love your analysis. Can't say why the writers completely botched everything up. Have very little faith left in the show recovering.
@greytroll1632
@greytroll1632 2 жыл бұрын
If it is like this now, after 8 episodes, then imanige in a couple of seasons...
@bobbycecere1037
@bobbycecere1037 2 жыл бұрын
Why is easy. Just listen to them when they explain why they made the changes they did.
@APthefirst
@APthefirst 2 жыл бұрын
This mostly made me angry. I felt lied to by Rafe. You are spot on when you said they did a great job marketing it, and the really got me. I even got my wife to watch and now I'm stuck explaining that this isn't really the story. She didn't even get to the end it was so bad. I think I held out hope until the big Nynaeve moment when she healed everyone. It just makes no sense within the world. I'm trying to avoid the whole "woke" argument, but it's tough to do when everything follows along the same pattern. SO many of the male characters had their stories altered to make them less then they were in the book. Mat is turned into a criminal, Perrin killed his own wife and then starts mooning over egwene? Rand has his big moment at the end given to a bunch of female channelers, not even fully Aes Sedai? Even his other moment of rejecting the dark one was done for different reasons. It wasn't "I'll never turn to the dark side" it was "but Egwene wouldn't like that..."
@nathanmorgan3647
@nathanmorgan3647 2 жыл бұрын
Wait, do you mean to tell me that the world wasnt actually saved by a toxic male finally realizing that having a family isnt for women anymore and that he needs to let go of his toxic dream of building a life with with a girl he loves and passing on something of themselves to the next generation so that she can instead go do something truly noble like go get a degree at magic college and start a career?!??!?
@thomasjones3143
@thomasjones3143 2 жыл бұрын
The problem is that it is, in fact, *not* woke ---- its anti-woke. By this I mean that it gives the appearance of being woke (i.e. women have important roles) but worshiping women is just as much a male ideology of femininity as directly degrading them (i.e. he is trading the `whore' for the Madona to go back to the old terminology). Now we don't have any women who are actually doing difficult things, we have Mary Sues who can do magic things, and shouldn't all women now be magic? It creates an unreal expectation in the other direction where the actual feminist plot would treat women as people who have responsibility and struggle *along with* men.
@johnnystorm3747
@johnnystorm3747 2 жыл бұрын
@@nathanmorgan3647 FDLMAO!!!! OMG.... that is awesome! You found Rafe's script!
@DmGray
@DmGray 2 жыл бұрын
@@thomasjones3143 I don't think anyone uses "woke" in a positive sense. Either they mean "progressive politics done performatively & often badly" or "progressive politics are bad" which I'd argue is a minority issue as anybody who holds that position is very open & explicit about it, so it's extremely difficult to mistake the two different uses) "woke" means exactly what you describe as "antiwoke" and that's the point. It's also a flaw within feminism a LOT of the time (anyone who denies this has spent ZERO time engaging with feminists to discuss important issues OR simply accepts whatever position is currently popular) We have a world in which feminists will outright deny that feminism can be misandrist ("bc equality") at the same time they're engaging in a multi decade conflict with TERFs. An ACTUAL feminist plot can be even worse hot garbage than this (handmaids tale? Anyone gonna argue that this is representative of some argument for equality?) OR it CAN be what you describe. But it is inherently neither.
@dallassukerkin6878
@dallassukerkin6878 10 ай бұрын
Interesting point. Unreal perfection and total power is an incorrect depiction whether applied to men or women@@thomasjones3143
@Dovieandi_Se_Tovya_Sagain
@Dovieandi_Se_Tovya_Sagain 2 жыл бұрын
Man you're good. You explain alot of the criticisms that alot us have a hard time articulating. You deserve more subs
@teamhonn
@teamhonn 2 жыл бұрын
Yes she is. Been here since the beginning. Would love to she her as part of a round table with Knights Watch. Her and Shad would have a great time together. She could even review his books.
@projectmertle9625
@projectmertle9625 2 жыл бұрын
@@teamhonn Those guys lean into the toxic side of things, they keep inserting ill will into areas that can just be explained by sheer stupidity and incompetence.
@mihaiserafim
@mihaiserafim 2 жыл бұрын
@@projectmertle9625 I agree with you, she is honest but polite, they are honest but they get carried away sometimes to a dark place.
@rhuanv
@rhuanv 2 жыл бұрын
@@projectmertle9625 Rafe clearly made comments that showed ill will first. Shad was even very considerate at first, but things got blatantly obvious at some point. I also thought they went too far in two or three matters, like the fight of rand's mothers that was not that bad, but the show-runners were a hundred percent in the know of their choices, there is no excuse.
@teamhonn
@teamhonn 2 жыл бұрын
@@projectmertle9625 those guys assume that the writers are not stupid maybe incompetent but has set out with a specific plan. Also of curse it is part of their show to just be like 3 duds sitting around talking. I am sure if she was their with them it would be tighter especially Shad.
@joshuaedwards7507
@joshuaedwards7507 2 жыл бұрын
Amy, enjoyed the video but I have to disagree with your discussion of the reasoning behind the character and plot changes. Not to overapply Occam’s Razor here, but if you were a complete misandrist what would you do differently to make the male characters worse? Thom goes from an interesting performer who knows a lot about the world, is a great mentor, and has a mysterious past to a drunkard and thief. His sole redeeming moment is burying the Aiel. All of the men in Emond’s Field, with the exception of Tam, as portrayed as simpleton’s instead of as wise men in their way (Cenn Buie excepted) and the way they handle Fain is a masterclass in leadership in the books. Don’t even get me started on Abel. Lan went from being this cool mysterious more battle-hardened version of Aragorn who mentors the boys and slowly changes his allegiance away from the Tower to the E5. He’s the uncrowned king of Malkier (the scene where Nynaeve drops him off at the Borderlands is one of the coolest scenes in the entire series, which is saying something). Instea on the show he’s this super ceremonial guy with no real skills and repeated poor judgement. His only redeeming feature is the corrupted love thing with Nynaeve. Mat’s now a grimdark thief who just has nothing interesting going for him, even with the dagger. I mean sure he gets along with kids well, but never gets a chance to shine with it. And losing him and Rand’s travels with Thom just means we don’t see any real character growth. Rand went from a person scared to death that Tam wasn’t his father, but determined to do the right thing to Egwene’s loser boyfriend. You don’t see him trying to master the sword, interacting with Min in a meaningful way that develops the plot or anything. Instead he just pines for Egwene like an 18-year old instead of his early 20s to include losing his moment of awesome to instead balance the world on letting brave and strong Egwene do what she wants. And of course there is Perrin. Instead of being the thoughtful and cautious and a super-cool wolf brother we get a guy who hates violence because he killed his awesome blacksmith wife by mistake. And he just lets the Horn of Valere get stolen while Egwene and Nynaeve bravely prepare to sacrifice themselves to save the city. Agelmar instead of being a gracious host telling the story of the badass Lan is an incompetent general who time and time again ignores the wisdom of his sister. Then gets his comeuppance being ignobly killed because he’s just a stupid man. And the list goes on. I find it hard to accept any answer for these behaviors other than wokeness. Women are elevated and the men are trashed. It’s not like this happens a couple of times. It’s every single scene and plot change.
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
I mostly agree with this. I just didn't cover this angle yet. It takes too many words
@joshuaedwards7507
@joshuaedwards7507 2 жыл бұрын
@@amys0482 , fair enough. I'll be looking forward to seeing it.
@customsongmaker
@customsongmaker 2 жыл бұрын
Also, like all feminists, the showrunners don't like women. They respect masculinity over femininity. Since feminism is just a form of communism, their goal is to take the coveted privilege of masculinity from the oppressors and redistribute it to the needy women. So they hate men for having what they envy, but they also hate women for not being more like men. That's why every episode introduces a woman or little girl just to kill her. Perrin's wife, a waitress Mat was going to seduce and rob, a woman with her hands cut off being burned alive, a little girl dead in the street with her doll, women's eyes being burned out, a pregnant woman stabbed to death, Moiraine with a spear through her mouth, a little girl being murdered by an entire army. That's on top of Egwene being thrown off a cliff, men running away while monsters eat women and children, Egwene being molested by a group of men, Siuan being abandoned by her father at age 9, on and on and on. They fit that all into 8 episodes, while the vast majority of TV shows have zero dead little girls. The people who made this show, and the people who enjoy watching it, are sexually aroused by violence against women and girls. That is the only explanation for why they find it entertaining.
@Rowlurorowf
@Rowlurorowf 8 ай бұрын
Not disagreeing with the characterizations, but you're attributing them to misandry as opposed to just bad writing. On top of that, you're comparing them to a story/series of books that has a lot more space to develop and understand these characters. I think it's a vast over simplification to attribute it to intentionally making them weak comparably to women.
@joshuaedwards7507
@joshuaedwards7507 8 ай бұрын
@Rowlurorowf the issue is that it happens every single time if it was just a lot you could chalk it up to bad writing and a misunderstanding of how WoT works. But when the men are always stupider than the women that is down to the current message of gurlllpower.
@bluelight17
@bluelight17 2 жыл бұрын
All i wanted from the show was to stay true to the lore and core of the story, i absolutely expected a lot of changes (though not from the start, i thought eotw was going to be the easiest to adapt). I tried to stay positive through the season despite the obvious lore changes, thinking that maybe the last episode would have fixed the problems brought by the mystery plot. Instead it just got way worse. The writing is just bad, there are no stakes, no prophecies (i have no idea what Moiraine has been doing all these years), and there is no internal logic even disregarding the books.
@haplozetetic9519
@haplozetetic9519 2 жыл бұрын
I was hopeful too, and took the same approach, but it just kept missing on to many points.
@frocat5163
@frocat5163 9 ай бұрын
@@haplozetetic9519 Me too. I made it all the way through Episode 6. When Mat abandoned the group, I stopped. I'll never watch another episode.
@haplozetetic9519
@haplozetetic9519 9 ай бұрын
​@@frocat5163 I've been watching season 2, and the writing is better, but they're still changing things that would never have happened in the books. The only thing this seems to have going for it is that some scenes that are actually from the books are really well done.
@pavelowjohn9167
@pavelowjohn9167 2 жыл бұрын
It boggles my mind that the writers of this show, especially the show-runner, could do this shoddy of a job adapting The Eye of the World, when they had one of the greatest fantasy writers of the last 50 years, the man who wrote the final three books of the Wheel of Time, literally at their disposal for the entire season. If they needed someone to check the scripts for continuity and logic, Brandon Sanderson was standing right there, just waiting to be used. He also, I hear, knows a thing or two about magic systems and how to create really good ones, maybe they could have run that by him as well... So I don't buy the excuses concerning COVID, Barney Harris or the book being really long and complex. They had all the resources in the world needed to make an interesting and engaging adaptation and they screwed it up. Kudos to Amy for this deep dive review of the entire season, this video does the best job I've seen so far giving an honest and clear appraisal of this show. Can't wait for Season 2, just so I can come here and see the reaction and analysis of what (hopefully) is a better adaptation of Book 2.
@f.carasind4188
@f.carasind4188 2 жыл бұрын
At least for episode 8 that was hit the most by Covid restrictions and Barney Harris leaving Brandon Sanderson wasn't available to even give feedback and it really enhanced the already existing problems. I have some hope for season 2 (because I can see what you can do here even with 8 episodes) but it will likely fuse book 2 and book 3.
@rhuanv
@rhuanv 2 жыл бұрын
@@f.carasind4188 Not that he was not available, I think he said they did not go after him. Kind of strange, maybe they knew he would question some things and did not want the bother. Very dumb mistake, as we can clearly see. I have zero hope for the second season, because if they fuse those two books, the only way to do it well is with much more episodes. They would either not have Rand, or have a lot of him. I have no faith. But you know, Egwene and Nynaeve are already supreme level channelers, right? That certainly speeds things up.
@makoygaara
@makoygaara 2 жыл бұрын
@@rhuanv Same thoughts about Barney Harris. Maybe there's something wrong and he just keeps silent and honors the non-disclosure agreement.
@glenbe4026
@glenbe4026 2 жыл бұрын
@@f.carasind4188 Brandon Sanderson (alongside Daniel Greene) has been a massive champion of the show. I am not sure what feedback he could have given in this instance.
@santihagne8151
@santihagne8151 2 жыл бұрын
Well Brandon himself, after the end of season 1, said that the show is in good hands with Rafe. If he truly believes that, I don't know what he would add to this crap to make it better.
@Degarth
@Degarth 2 жыл бұрын
“The canons of narrative in any medium cannot be wholly different; and the failure of poor films is often precisely in exaggeration, and in the intrusion of unwarranted matter owing to not perceiving where the core of the original lies.” J.R.R. Tolkien
@cobba42
@cobba42 2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant analysis. In the aftermath of episode 8 I "shopped around" for reviews on this platform and found your commentary. And I must say, I am thoroughly impressed by how well you distill all the essential concepts and present them to us. I'm looking forward to any and all content from you. Which leads me to a thought I had: you are very precise in choosing the right words and how you string them together, capturing the nuances to convey exactly what you mean to say. Which is utterly different from what was done in the show: It feels like the writers didn't have a large enough active vocabulary to find the words they should have used. Probably didn't help that they didn't read the source material. Or much at all it seems. Which, ultimately, adds a lot of confusion to people who actually care and are as nitpicky as hardcore fans of fantasy and/or science fiction. My main disappointment is that a) I can hardly find any of the concepts of the books in the series and b) so many of the "moments of awesome" didn't have a setup or justification and were actually "moments of utter stupidity". Moraine fights Trollocs in the first episode: tears down half the village when she is capable using other means - as shown. A camp of Aes Sedai and warders being surprised by an army with just some wards giving warning? Nynaeve flash healing the camp: breaking the magic system on so many levels. Logain needs to turn away because he can see the power. She heals people all around without having to touch or focus on them specifically. Also, power creep. Casual sex: I'm not a puritan, sex and/or nudity on screen doesn't bother me. But in a medieval setting that is not something that could have happened. So many of our social norms stem from the fact that having babies is a life changing event. The failure to understand that is ... well, let's say it this way: it undermines the credibility of the person who tells the story as to having any kind of education, experience and understanding. Whitecloaks cutting off hands but leaving the Aes Sedai conscious: the magic system is now relegated to being purely a deus ex machina plot device. A father sending his daughter, a little girl on a long and dangerous journey alone on a boat - up stream! - across half the known world. Fake-out deaths. They are a bad plot device any time they are used. But when they are used constantly it's just ludicrous. And don't get me started on the mess that is episode 8: Giving the equivalent of a nuclear arsenal to somebody with no training or explanation, moronic choices by everybody we see, again power creep: Egwene was not "trying to throw her puny, untrained wielding of the Power against the Forsaken" but instead assisted in obliterating an army. The Healing after. In short: everybody on screen is either incompetent or has lost agency. And that based on material where a lot of the satisfaction came from the fact that many of the people were so incredibly competent at whatever they were doing. Men and women alike. Not to mention those shining moments where comparisons were made, elevating one character even more. I apologize for the wall of text.
@joshuamininger7745
@joshuamininger7745 2 жыл бұрын
Totally agree, 100%
@johns70
@johns70 2 жыл бұрын
Yup, well written. As opposed to the show…
@haplozetetic9519
@haplozetetic9519 2 жыл бұрын
I agree, with one point of correction. While the Two Rivers area was rather puritan in attitude, WoT was not a medieval setting, it was much more Renaissance, just without gun powder. Don't worry about the "wall of text." It makes the scope of the problem much more obvious when one person can point out such a large number of issues. Quite a number of people have done so, and this lends weight to the argument. It's too bad Rafe chooses not to listen.
@kevindenelsbeck7444
@kevindenelsbeck7444 2 жыл бұрын
That was excellent. My guess is that Rafe is a very domineering showrunner, but his notions of feminism and his craft at exposition are both too amateurish to convey the updated story universe rules he apparently believes are necessary for today's viewers. So the narrative is unnaturally tilted to rather traditional tropey elements he thinks female viewers want (warders dying out of devotion to their fallen mistresses, or hardened warriors confessing heartfelt love, or sister power defeating monsters that arrogant men couldn't), without realizing that WoT already had a significant female fandom just the way it was. The crime of this show is the scattershot, inconsistent exposition. Anything could be forgivable if we simply understood what was going on. But the amazingly coherent magic system from the books has been incoherently sundered, the Ishamael switcheroo and diversion of Rand's power is completely unexplained, and the story necessity of the taveren has not been justified for at least two of them. If Rafe wanted an organic mystery to run through the first season, Moiraine could've warned the EF5 in Episode 1 about the Forsaken, and that these baddies could be anybody they meet. That would've set the non-book Internet on fire trying to guess, and could've helped explain the last episode. I'm sure that budget and COVID played major parts as well, especially with the "scant" feeling in the Eye of the World scene, Mat's awkward goodbye, and the crummy battle CGI. I hope they take the budget for season 2 and apply it more to the writing.
@AdderTude
@AdderTude 2 жыл бұрын
Judkins will focus more on writing...by making more changes whenever fans complain about staying faithful to the source material. He explicitly promised this on Twitter.
@Dacrath
@Dacrath 2 жыл бұрын
I miss a lot of what made the wheel of time so good. The loss of the language quirks (blood and bloody ashes), making Matt so much darker. I just feel like some of the fun was just sucked right out of the story. In its place we get emo Lan and the warder of who cares, unearned powers, confusion, and what appears to be current era thinking injected into what is supposed to be a totally different world with different norms. I just don't understand most of the changes made which have by and large destroyed the story.
@frocat5163
@frocat5163 9 ай бұрын
*"...totally different world ..."* Well...the same world as ours... ;-)
@jonas5689
@jonas5689 2 жыл бұрын
I think the show is a result of several things pushing the production into the pit of doom. 1: Amazon wants their own Game of Thrones -> everyone is an asshole and life sucks + animal corpses in dragon fang shape for no reason and really gory battle scene. 2: Rafe wants to be pro feminist and girl power so much that he ends up making the show misandrist instead, leaving all male characters as useless husks. 3: Rosamund Pike is the biggest name so her character Moiraine has to be the lead which is not supported by the books -> lots of invented scenes to give her more to do, this will be even more obvious in S2. 4: The writers don't understand fantasy and the need to follow the rules once established when you are dealing with magic.
@nyetzdyec3391
@nyetzdyec3391 2 жыл бұрын
Rafe Judkins' definition of feminism, as evidenced by "his" show, Wheel of Time: His definition appears to be the same as a famous feminist (Irina Dunn) quote from way back (1970)... which was further made famous by yet another feminist (Gloria Steinem) "Women need men like fish need bicycles." Translation, "men are useless" examples... Rand, Mat, Perrin, Loial, Agelmar, Abell Cathon... the entire Shienaran army...
@makoygaara
@makoygaara 2 жыл бұрын
@@nyetzdyec3391 Don't forget Lan Mandragoran that they have neutered and the actor turned into something else by rafe and co. every time he takes off his clothes.
@makoygaara
@makoygaara 2 жыл бұрын
All of it but 2 and 3 hit the home run. The show is doomed from the very beginning when Amazon chose Rafe, an ultra-feminist as the showrunner. Also, they should have chosen a good but not yet well-known actress to play Moiraine so that it won't be a big burden to lose her in following the books.
@nyetzdyec3391
@nyetzdyec3391 2 жыл бұрын
@@makoygaara You are absolutely right that they should have chosen a less well-known actress to play Moiraine. It would have made it FAR easier for them to leave her out of a few episodes to concentrate on the STORY instead of a single SECONDARY character. They've already announced plans to add a NEW thread to keep her "busy" during season two... which is going to be a waste of time that they NEED to spend on things they SHOULD have done in season one... and didn't... and all the new things that they are going to have to do in S2 with the Seanchan and everything else. (Also, I agree that the show PARTIALLY "neutered" Lan... but ONLY partially.)
@thomasjones3143
@thomasjones3143 2 жыл бұрын
I think that number 2 holds if we understand that what Rafe is doing in his adaptation is *not* feminism, or at least is a classist form of feminism oriented around a `girl boss' ideology. It is good to be a feminist, but feminism demands equality in social affairs between men and women, when you take women and worship them as Godesses you are *not* doing feminism, you're just doing feminine mystery cult bullshit where men say 'oh women are great' in symbolic form to make them even more enslaved at a material level.
@bidossessi
@bidossessi 2 жыл бұрын
A lot of people who defend the show tend to reach outside (like the books) for additional context. But I've noticed that it's really hard for them to talk about the show as its own thing, once they are faced with its inconsistencies. Thank you for taking the time to gather what lore the show has managed to present into a single, if not cohesive, package.
@santihagne8151
@santihagne8151 2 жыл бұрын
What I noticed is they only talk about the "inclusivity" in the show as the MAIN positive thing and once you try to bring them to another field, they all go mad and label you as bookcloak.
@NotoriousLightning
@NotoriousLightning 2 жыл бұрын
@@santihagne8151 "Bookcloak?" Really?
@santihagne8151
@santihagne8151 2 жыл бұрын
@@NotoriousLightning Are you on Twitter? Because there was a period during which there was a vendetta against anyone who dares to have negative reviews about the show and they call them bookcloaks.
@NotoriousLightning
@NotoriousLightning 2 жыл бұрын
@@santihagne8151 Nope, and stuff like this is definitely a contributing factor. I saw some similar sentiments in Daniel Green's comments section, but I've never come across that ridiculous term before.
@Lorenzogino
@Lorenzogino 2 жыл бұрын
honestly the show is as misogynistic as it is misandrist. the treatment of the women in the show on the surface seems feminist, but dig a little and it all falls apart. The Perrin wife subplot is one of the most misogynistic plotlines I've seen in a mainstream tv show in some time. The creation of an original female character whose purpose is to be slain by her husband to give her husband an excess of man pain in place of a plot line is a mix of disrespectful and horrifying. The decision to cut Elaida, Elaida being the adviser to the Queen of Andor (who is never mentioned) and a shrewd and dangerous political player capable of organizing a coup of the White Tower, for Liandrin, whose political acumen amounts to making catty remarks more fit for a girl's boarding school and runs away in shock when Moiraine says she knows she's got a dude on the side. Moiraine is depicted as an outright moron at multiple times in the show. The show goes out of its way to invent scenes to have Egwene take her clothes off. The scenes in the first episode and a later one where she's stripped and cleaned by the White Cloaks, which never happens in the book and has an uncomfortable sexual abuse undertone to it. She never has a suggestion of a love triangle plot between her, Rand and Perrin and is never objectified by the boys, even Rand, in the books. Making Rand and Egwene's relationship a more 'dramatic' romance than it is in the books is also a disservice to both characters. The show objectifies her more than the books did in a seeming effort to argue against something the books never said. It was confusing. Adding a relationship between Suane and Moiraine on the surface seems progressive (and I really don't mind it in and of itself) but when every major female character (Egwene/Nynaeve/Moraine) has a plot arc focused on romance, its essentially saying a woman's plot must be married to romance in some fashion. At the very least with the boys Mat gets to remain a bachelor in the first season. the 'feminism' the show promotes is of a purely 2010s style 'girl boss' type with healthy splash of wrong headed 'male' feminism. It thinks letting the girls blow up the monsters instead of the boys is a progressive or empowering statement. It confuses kicking ass and magic power levels with 'strong female characters'. It's only context for 'strength' is through violence. Its insulting, to say the least.
@thomasjones3143
@thomasjones3143 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely, this is what annoys me so much about the whitecloaks running around being like `show is woke and that's why its bad, meh' and like --- I'm sorry but misandry and misogyny are two sides of the same coin: the show doesn't fail because it likes women, the show fails because it worships women in order to project male fantasies onto them.
@dbeaton1111
@dbeaton1111 2 жыл бұрын
@@thomasjones3143 Two sides of the same coin, perhaps, but the show worships women in order to project radical feminist fantasies on them. I see no misogynism in it at all. It's either Rafe Judkins' intention to scoop up some Hollywood feminist bono fides, or he figures to bring in what he feels must be a vast horde of radical feminist viewers. I lean toward the former. It's weird because the WoT books were already quite feminist. If he'd just stuck to the book themes, he would have been praised to the sky.
@thomasjones3143
@thomasjones3143 2 жыл бұрын
@@dbeaton1111 I don't see that --- I see a show that is projecting a male fantasy of what radical feminist fantasies *should* be on female characters that act as screens for a new kind of masculine fantasy of femininity ordered around the idea of a `girlboss' --- a new kind of mommy figure oriented not around the home and kitchen but instead around the career --- a radical feminist position should posit that women can be what they want to be, including slobs that don't want to provide shit for anyone around them which this fantasy does not allow. There was also like a number of interesting choices such as: fridging a made for TV character who was *not* necessary in the first episode, the way that female bodies were still displayed more than male bodies, the sexual assault by proxy vibes in the whitecloak scene with egwene that are not in the book, and also strange love triangle choice between rand, perrin, and Egwene which seem to indicate we can't have Egwene around unless she's involved in some relationship drama.
@Telkor
@Telkor 2 жыл бұрын
*Some Spoilers Ahead* I finished episode eight and felt like I'd been punched in the gut. I struggled to find anything good I could latch onto. It was like I'd sat down to eat a meal and got up from the table more hungry than when I'd sat down. The story feels hollow to me. Like the writers said we need nine or ten scenes that anchor what we're going for and then wrote a bunch of drivel around those points. I don't feel like I know these characters at all. One of the great things about Game of Thrones was people liked and felt attached to Ned. So when he dies people freaked out. People started saying, "Hey you have to watch this show they're willing to kill off main characters". And half the fun of the show was that one wasn't sure if the characters they liked were gonna make it. But people in general felt that there'd be payoff at the end. Which of course we know doesn't happen after we all watched the season that shall not be named. They fumbled it. But at least it took them several seasons to do so. Wheel of Time feels like they didn't even catch the snap of the ball. In the Wheel of Time show there feels like there's no risk. We aren't sure what's at stake. The enemies aren't clearly defined in a way that isn't, "bad guys chase you, grunt grunt". It's cheap and flimsy. I hate that they question prophecy. It's such a central theme to the books. Some question the interpretation of the prophecies, which is true of all prophecy, but no one in the books questions whether they will come true. Moiraine in the show, flat out says, "They've been translated over and over again" questioning whether or not they are even valid or can be trusted. I really like the acting. The sets. The costumes. I think its a crime we only got like 30 min total time with Thom. Only a few min in the ways. Ugh. All at the expense of the tower scenes, none of which had any payoff except to give an excuse to show off a woman on woman "forbidden" romance. Which is like the tail wagging the dog. It's a passing theme in the books and yet here in the show we have to make it central to these characters for some reason. I say some reason but let's be honest with ourselves, it's cultural currency. Forget the fact both these women in the books both end up with men. One wonders how much celebration that would garner. Which probably means they'll skip that part. I'd have been fine with a cold open of Moiraine and Suian as novices. Something that sets up their task. Their friendship and loyalty and even a mention or showing of them being "pillow friends". Maybe the prophecy given in front of them so we know why the two are risking everything. It seems like there are so many things that are small and insignificant that the writers wanted to focus on. We get so little character building. Almost nothing. Very little payoff, which is central to any writers arsenal. One has to trust that the writer is going to make it all work out. So the set up, the conflict and the resolution all have to make sense, and none of that is done. In the end, I don't think Rafe is trying at all. I think this is a cash Pinata that Amazon hopes to keep beating, until LOTR comes out and can tell Wheel Of Time to hold it's beer, while they mess up that story as well. I don't trust these writers. And I hate that I have that view.
@SSakal
@SSakal 2 жыл бұрын
...and they focus in on a nobody Warder and give him a whole character arc, taking up valuable screen time that could have developed *actual* characters. -_-
@hikari9262
@hikari9262 2 жыл бұрын
Makes you question whether or not the creator really loves the book series. Because if he does love the series made by Robert Jordan, he would've think twice before making big unnecessary changes. The series is not shaping up to be an adaptation, it is just becoming a mere fan fiction.
@SSakal
@SSakal 2 жыл бұрын
@@hikari9262 "Fan fiction" makes the assumption that the creator is a "fan" lol. Seems more like a corporate opportunist who sees dollar signs and culture points for changing "problematic" IP.
@hikari9262
@hikari9262 2 жыл бұрын
@@SSakal He did claim that he is a fan.
@SSakal
@SSakal 2 жыл бұрын
@@hikari9262 I don't doubt it.
@A76noname
@A76noname 2 жыл бұрын
The mention about Rafe wanting to kill the ferryman with lightning comes from Brandon Sanderson's reddit post. He explained that they had to contact all the way up to team Jordan to convince Rafe that it would, in fact, clash with the three oaths.
@nyetzdyec3391
@nyetzdyec3391 2 жыл бұрын
Just more PROOF that Rafe doesn't understand the WoT... AT ALL.
@thomasjones3143
@thomasjones3143 2 жыл бұрын
I mean wow, just wow --- not a fan at all I guess.
@gilian2587
@gilian2587 2 жыл бұрын
@@thomasjones3143 Or he is a fan, but he has worse reading comprehension than the average 6 year old.
@TheHEAVYDAN
@TheHEAVYDAN 2 жыл бұрын
@@nyetzdyec3391 are you trying to tell me letting a survivor contestant run a show was a poor choice?
@nyetzdyec3391
@nyetzdyec3391 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheHEAVYDAN Well, I'm thinking that should have hired someone with at least a LITTLE more qualification than that...
@dicknarcowitz
@dicknarcowitz 2 жыл бұрын
Man you nailed it. This writing is so lazy there is no way the writers went to the trouble of reading the books.
@languagelearningexperience6814
@languagelearningexperience6814 2 жыл бұрын
Yea it feels like they had a brief overview
@conniethesconnie
@conniethesconnie 2 жыл бұрын
I prefer the term sloppy. The lazy thing to do would have been to just copy the book scene for scene.
@johnnystorm3747
@johnnystorm3747 2 жыл бұрын
they read a back cover with a big wine stain on it to get some idea of who might be important to the story...looked at the map inside the cover...someone told them about the blight and Arid Hall/Shadar Logoth, Minetherian, and they took the chapter titles to name a few things... they created cartoons to cover the back story cannon but then completely ignored their own rules in the live action...
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
@@johnnystorm3747 I spot an audio book reader. 😅 Aridhol. Manetheren. I listen to the books now too so not a slight. Just an observation.
@johnnystorm3747
@johnnystorm3747 2 жыл бұрын
@@amys0482 lol...I have read and re-read the books with every subsequent release...the audio books are for the long drives or flights I used to have for work traveling all over Western Canada... being dyslexic, I really had to focus to read and re-read the books and the audio books were a great help when I found them...but I always read the books first... the audio books have really become key to find the time to "read" in re-reading these for what's left of my brain... my original copies are all hard covers and they don't travel far from my home library any longer. I used to love taking them out solo to dinner before I met my wife and kids showed up ... I was totally comfortable treating myself to a good meal in a restaurant and reading in the crowd... it often lead to great conversations but I was equally fine being left alone and enjoying a great meal with a great read. I really think Amazon missed an opportunity to bring in Michael Crammer and Kate Redding as Narrators rather then using Rosamund Pike ... but that's just a personal opinion... but boy that would have been "ear worms" to catch people and suck them in in the advertising with both their recognizable voices
@kabiansadi
@kabiansadi 2 жыл бұрын
Rafe said it all: He did not trusted the source material. He believed he could do better. "The arrogance"
@FiliusFidelis
@FiliusFidelis 2 жыл бұрын
How much can you change a story, and still claim its name?
@M0rd3a
@M0rd3a 2 жыл бұрын
You gained a new subscriber. I first picked up these books in the 90s when I was in university and was first attracted to its similarities to the Lord of the Rings (which I loved) and ended up loving the books BECAUSE of their difference from Lord of the Rings. The first book, Eye of the World, is a coming of age story and I think some of the most significant differences from book to show, and some of the weird inconsistencies, are caused by making the main characters older. They removed almost all the “tutoring” from the show, like Lan teaching the boys to fight (not to mention Thom that was almost non existent in the show). In the books they see Lan, as a Warder, as a role model because in the stories, warders are brave and great fighters. Instead of that, every time there is a fight, the boys run, very different from the books where they always fight, even knowing very little about what they are doing. That makes them look like cowards… In contrast, the women are able show courage but, sometimes, in situations when it doesn’t make sense: when Perrin and Egwene are captured by the Whitecloaks and Egwene frees Perrin, why is Egwene the one that defeats the whitecloak? We were shown she was still roped to the chair when the camera turns to Perrin and it made sense if Perrin took advantage of the man’s fear at seeing his eyes. Instead, Egwene magically breaks free and stabs him with some knife… I loved the books depiction of men and women relationships. Like when Nynaeve complaining about men being stubborn and proud and jumping into things without thinking and then doing it herself in the next scene (she does this a lot through the books). Or Rand thinking that Perrin and Matt are the ones that know how to talk to girls and in the next chapter we read Perrin thinking the same thing about Rand. None of this is shown in the series. About masculinity: I am a woman but still it pains me that some of the male characters of the show are striped of their identities. I say some because Lan is still mostly recognizable. Rand, Matt and Perrin, in the books, were still learning how to be men and their role models are their fathers and, in Perrin’s case, the blacksmith. They have a few beliefs and assumptions from that like Rand is always looking out for Egwene and when Rand is not with her, Perrin feels he has to take that role. Matt tries (and succeeds) to save the women multiple times throughout the series of books because he believes that is what a man should do. The books never say if what they think is right or wrong. The reader is supposed to get to the conclusions by themselves by what happens (Matt is usually rebuked for trying to help the girls, for example). I don’t understand why anyone would feel the need to remove this from the show. The (mostly bad) assumptions are a source of humor in the books and the underlying message in the wheel of time is that all the great things accomplished in the world are done with men and women working together as one. Also, again as being a woman, I feel insulted that someone feels the need to remove traits like bravery and initiative from the male characters so that the women seem more powerful. Sorry, we don’t need that: Nynaeve or Egwene are shown to be brave and powerful enough in the books, time and time again.
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
The character who would be most pissed off by the changes the show makes is Faile. Maybe I'll really like her in the show. 😏
@step4018
@step4018 2 жыл бұрын
@@amys0482 Book Faile would stab Egwene at the first sign of any of that love triangle stuff that the show has brought in! I don't know what to expect if the do cast Faile: will they have to drop the jealousy, that she was a Hunter of the Horn (if Perrin is the one to blow it), just where will they have time for her to show up if they are doing books 2 and 3...? I am fairly sure she'll boss Perrin around, with luck at least she'll stop him standing around with his mouth hanging open 🙄
@Dovieandi_Se_Tovya_Sagain
@Dovieandi_Se_Tovya_Sagain 2 жыл бұрын
This is well said. As a man I often feel I can't say this with out being called a sexist. But I honestly don't mind the strong female moments if they are believable and are not at the expense of degrading a man in its place.
@joshuamininger7745
@joshuamininger7745 2 жыл бұрын
You said it. Totally agree
@andreasgoretzko2409
@andreasgoretzko2409 2 жыл бұрын
About Twenty years ago one was thrilled to hear, that one of your favorite books would be adapted into a film or a show. Today one just shakes his head in disbelief with tears in the eyes and a bad feeling.
@kingwithoutakingdom
@kingwithoutakingdom 2 жыл бұрын
Please... all studios care about is money. This will NOT be the only adaptation we will ever see of WoT, if something is popular enough they'll sit on it for ten-fifteen years and then try to remake it. How many spider-man reboots have we seen over the last twenty years? Dune just got a much more faithful adaptation. If we continue to think that this is the best we can get and we need to be lenient or supportive of this show because we'll never see another adaptation, we are doing a disservice not only to ourselves for setting the bar so low, but a disservice to Jordan as well for allowing them butcher/rewrite his works without regards for the quality of the show that they are making. The man was literally on his deathbed and one of the things he decided to do with what little time he had left, was to ensure that his series would be finished, for US. That says a lot about the kind of person Jordan was and this show, spits on his grave for how much it tries to change/rewrite/modernize/ or whatever other excuse that they're throwing out there to justify how much they have undermined his world. WoT and Jordan DESERVE better then this flaming dumpster fire of a mess that Amazon gave us.
@gilian2587
@gilian2587 2 жыл бұрын
The story will likely be retold in the next 10 years. This is not the 1970s; streaming platforms are scrambling for opportunities to make money. Underlying statistics will hint at the untapped well that is the Wheel of Time fanbase. A wise studio will go looking for their 'Peter Jackson' to adapt it.
@Thedarkbunnyrabbit
@Thedarkbunnyrabbit 2 жыл бұрын
Honestly, while they tried to have strong PR that the show would be made by people who loved it, the cracks showed long before it aired. You can excuse one of their first tweets about the show being that they intended to ignore Jordan's actual world building and shuffling of cultures around because you can have something visually inaccurate that is still otherwise accurate, but as time went on they continued to make more and more flippant comments about the work before it ever aired. Rafe claimed he received a homophobic death threat (but didn't show any evidence he actually received one) and in response made a "joking" tweet about how he would make various main characters gay to upset 'those people' in response. In what I believe was the same interview where the original edition 'accidentally' referred to Moirane as the main character in the series, they also stated that they had no interest in conveying the actual dialog from the book, and not to expect the book to be directly translated to screen. Rafe also made a tweet joking about how the WoT convention before the series came out would be the 'last one you can attend before I ruin your series'. Although they seem fairly minor at a glance, the fact that these were all statements made BEFORE the show ever aired is very telling. Usually showrunners only get belligerent and make rude 'jokes' at fans after they receive criticism for a show that's airing and doing badly. Pre-launch they generally stick hard to 'we're passionate fans who love what we're doing and we're sure you'll love this as well'. Cracks showing before airing just indicates the true feelings of the production team are that much more negative toward fans. That Rafe has never apologized or accepted any criticism for his work so far and only made excuses and more comments like "I can't wait to kill a character that doesn't die in the books" shows even more that he's not interested in what his audience thinks, or pleasing fans of any sort - book or otherwise - he displays the contempt for his viewers usually only present near cancellation when a showrunner has become toxic toward their own fans and is in the process of driving them off. (The dreaded "If you don't like it, you can just not watch it" comment has not been made yet, I don't think, but I imagine it's close.)
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
Interesting! I do not typically follow this kind of thing (how producers interact with their audience) so I have had to catch up.
@Thedarkbunnyrabbit
@Thedarkbunnyrabbit 2 жыл бұрын
@@amys0482 An understandable path, really. I'm just the type to go straight for the behind the scenes stuff, so it was one of the first things I looked for when I heard it'd been greenlit but there wasn't much of substance to see of the actual show yet.
@NameNotAChannel
@NameNotAChannel 2 жыл бұрын
I knew a little going in, because I watched Daniel Greene's "let's summarize" series (since I never intended to read the books), and some of the basic lore of "how the world works" type stuff. After watching the series, I listened to the first audiobook (listening to book 2 now)... just to see how much they went off the rails. (I've also been watching Shad rightfully rip the series apart.) Impressions from watching: * The first episode contradicted known lore. (I was willing to let them play the "unreliable narrator card" once.) * The whole "men cause the taint" thing, and no differentiation between Saidar and Saidin, was repeated from the perspective of at least 2 Aes Sedai (Moiraine and Liandrin, perhaps different wordings, but the same idea came across to me). * The whole "the 'dragon reborn' can be either a man or a woman" thing just baffled me. This undermined a core element of the original lore that has HUGE implications in the world. * Moiraine must be the main character of the story. * The "aging up" and sexualization of certain relationships didn't work for me (especially the "love triangle", and knowing the amount of stress and tension there was in the original story about the coming of age story, not being able to talk to girls, sex before marriage being a massive taboo, etc) Things that would have made sense for a younger group to be important seemed really out of place for the group we saw on screen - it's like they were only aged up enough to have sex scenes, but remained early teens in everything else. * Rand was a non-character (and coward.) His reveal to be the Dragon Reborn was unsatisfying, relying on withheld information, incorrectly seen scenes - channeling in the ways, etc. * Perrin was a werewolf who was going to follow the way of the leaf to avoid transforming, like the incredible hulk. His murdering his wife seemed unnecessary unless it was an important event from the books that I didn't know about... * Mat was a creep. I know him to be a hero in later books (due to Daniel's "lets summarize" thing, and being his favorite character...) so, unclear how he'll recover from the dagger stuff... the show trying to say he'll go down the dark path just rings false, given my rough outline of later books... so not engaging to me. * Nynaeve was very powerful and stubborn and angry. (I guess they nailed her from what I hear.) * The Aes Sedai were a powerful group respected everywhere, except the borderlands, where stupid men don't want any help fighting the hordes of the dark one. * Whitecloaks could capture, torture, and kill people right outside the walls of Tar Valon, if they suspected them of being Aes Sedai... they must have a powerful country's backing to run around with impunity. * Tom was basically Aragorn as a cowboy thief who met Rand and Mat and then 'died.' (only think he doesn't die because he looks like Aragorn... and Daniel's summarize stuff mentions him again later.) * This Stepin guy must be an important char... nevermind. (Foreshadowing Rand/Egwene warder or Moiraine dying? I didn't pay that much attention to the "let's summarize" thing afterall.) * Pregnant battle lady was unrealistic and over the top. * The Logain stuff was mostly ok. * We finally get a reliable narrator - a DIRECT scene from 3000 years ago, not just a story... and it shows Lews Therin to be a stupid arrogant man that ruins a utopia, and he gets warned by a woman of the events that will unfold. (I know from Daniel's summary, that this is a totally false scene, so I'm not willing to let the writers slide with another "unreliable narrator" card, or some character perspective thing... this is twisting the original story of desperation and a final last plan, that succeeded! Lews did nothing wrong. And they kinda leave out the whole bore thing... and the women not helping, and the fact that the Dark One retaliated against the men's sealing him away, which added the taint to the Saidin. * Agelmar was a pompous idiot. * Where was Rand's moment to shine, showing how powerful he was when he went out of control with lightning and fire? And the whole sword of light thing... Overall takeaway: Men are stupid, arrogant, and ruined a utopia. Rand needs to follow the orders of the Aes Sedai to fix what Lews did wrong or something. (unclear what the Dragon Reborn needs to do, or what really happened at the eye of the world. Who was that guy? Why was he smiling? What is that broken rock?) "What's going on" moments after audio-reading the book(s) (and watching rant vids): * Rand didn't stand out at all. His little meltingpot of a crossroads town was home to a wide variety of people to blend in with. * The whole Perrin thing didn't work for me. They really gutted (intended) his story. In the book, he didn't have any leaning toward the way of the leaf, and already knew what he was, thanks to a character they never introduced to his story. * Moiraine's destroying the inn basically flies directly in the face of the fact that the Inn was one of the only remaining buildings after the attack in the book... not super important but... * Moiraine's injury just... doesn't make sense to add. I guess it stops her from doing her Gandalf impression, with the earthquake and wall of fire "you shall not pass" moment. * The dreams made no sense without any real confrontation. At this rate, they could have just given them the dream prophesy/message of the dark one wanting to blind the eye of the world... and potentially made that part of the Ta'veren thing. I dunno. That seemed to be a big reason for them meeting the tinkers, and Loial. (I forget who else had the same prophesy now.) * Tom didn't act as a mentor to Rand/Mat at all really. His character was a big "what's the deal here?" * The "relationship" between Moiraine and Siuan didn't work for me, since the book describes them talking about the men they'd marry... not something I'd expect that sort to talk about. (just finished listening to this part.) * Moiraine channeling to open the ways made no sense. Loial was there... let him (or Moiraine) find the leaf and use the leaf! And let him guide, not just read the guide stone once in the ways... * The Logain stuff, with him looking like some depressed, hollow, shell of a man, instead of a king basking in the glory of the praise of his people, despite being caged and being a sign of his going mad... because they decided to gentle him before getting to Tar Valon... just undercuts that part of him, and Rand's impression. * No Caemlan... the queen, the princess, ... no, Tar Valon instead... and they didn't even reach Tar Valon in the first book. * Fal Dara was a HUGE supporter of the Aes Sedai, welcoming their aid, and hoping Moiraine was there to help against the massing forces. When they learned of the mission, the king kept insisting on sending warriors to aid her in her battle... speaking of which... * Agelmar was a very good man, not pompous in the least, welcoming, understanding, supportive, and intelligent. * The Blight was not the blight I expected, nor was the eye of the world, or the lack of the green man. Why the Horn wasn't found in the protected resting place along with the flag... just makes no sense how it was under the throne... (especially given the first 5 chapters I've listened to of the 2nd book...) * Rand's decision to just go off to live as a hermit so he wouldn't hurt anyone as the Dragon... and Moiraine just letting him go, when we know she knew that was NOT the last battle... makes no sense at the finale... sure, she's stunned because she was shielded/stilled, whatever that didn't happen in the book... just... and I've even started into book 2, where he's wanting to do the same thing... but it's clear Moiraine isn't just letting him go entirely... there's a reason, and direction she's pointing him to take up the role of the Dragon Reborn, whether he likes it or not... They had the unique chance here, to go back and write "chapter 1" of the series, after knowing the ending, so they could have written something that really spoke to the overall themes of the story and the characters... and we got that thing instead. The theme from the book/series, of men and women working together... two halves of the whole... is fully and totally lost in this adaptation.
@gilian2587
@gilian2587 2 жыл бұрын
Removed in this adaptation. It is hard to realize due to the ham fisted misandry at play here; but all of the main characters from the books were cheapened and diminished; including Moiraine, in fact.
@sdube001
@sdube001 2 жыл бұрын
Take this from someone who has either read or listened to the entire series many, many times. Your observations and articulating of them are extremely well done! Welcome to the Wheel of Time series, may your journey through the real story be exciting.
@sarahtalone6251
@sarahtalone6251 2 жыл бұрын
Not to talk about how in the first books, Moiraine doesn't let go of Rand for one.second. He is constantly at her sight, she is constantly counseling him, even diminishes herself at one point, when their relationship was at its lowest, because Rand never wanted to listen to her. Until that thing happens and she is gone for most of the series. Its weird that she is the main character of the show. Makes us wonder how awfully they're gonna turn the series upside down, and vice versa.
@NameNotAChannel
@NameNotAChannel 2 жыл бұрын
Replying to add an update to myself now, having read/listened to the entire series in 4 months. SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS . . . . . . . SPOILERS OK, so Moiraine marries Thom, and Siuan marries Gareth Bryne... sorry, not a lesbian relationship here. The most serious description of their "pillowfriend" status was as a "youthful daliance" or somesuch, and it was dropped long before the scene we got in the show. The Perrin's wife thing makes even less sense now that I've seen his whole arc, and his interaction with the whitecloaks doesn't match up either... the whole reason for his being chased and the trial later on... if they just have him kill whitecloaks during the siege of emonds field, protecting people, it'll undermine how he sees the wolves as friends as much as people. The whole warder funeral thing was totally made up. From my reading of Lan, he wouldn't have done what he did in that scene... it directly contradicts some statements he makes about death and how he views it. Making Egwene a Ta'veren seriously weakens her "character." The "Min" we've seen so far isn't bad... she's too old, IMO, and there's room for her to become the book Min, but I don't see it yet. Now that Agelmar is dead, he won't be around to be one of the 4 great generals at the 4 battlefronts of the last battle (it is specifically mentioned how it seems like providence that there are 4 generals and 4 battlefronts. Are they going to remove one of the battlefronts?) It is explicitly explained that women CANNOT burn out when in a circle, that burnout does NOT mean death - simply cannot use the power anymore, death cannot be healed with the one power, and Egwene wasn't good at healing in the first place. That entire ending was infuriating. The Shadar Logoth Dagger would lead to a quick and painful death for Loial... I don't know how they're going to explain away that fake-out death that didn't happen in the books. The "Lews Therin in the past" scene was mis-characterized. His actions took place as a desperate final plan to fight back... he didn't ruin a utopia trying to cage the dark one... the world was at war. If anything, it was Mierin's fault for opening the bore. The arrogance was held by everyone in the age of legends... they each saw themselves as best fit to fight and lead themselves, so nobody coordinated or worked together. This wasn't limited to men, or Lews Therin. The casting of Aviendha belies a lack of understanding of the source material. There's a reason the Aiel are tall, pale skinned (but heavily tanned), RED-HEADED people living in a desert... they're out of place... not native to that land, not adapted to the land, besides just making it obvious that Rand is one of them, with those distinct physical identifiers. Making them (or just her?) of african descent is just mind boggling stupid. I do not accept the Aviendha they're introducing (or other black Aiel.) There will be PLENTY of opportunity to add in black characters from Tear, the Sea Folk, the Sharan, the Seanchan... the different peoples are highly identifiable in the books by their skin colors, hair styles, clothing choices, accents, heights, customs and attitudes. Blending them into a giant melting pot of diversity does a great disservice to the highly diverse world that RJ created. That's about all I can think I want to add right now.
@facepwnagewtf
@facepwnagewtf 2 жыл бұрын
Bad writing is what makes or breaks a TV show. Everything else could be perfect, but if the writing is awful nothing else truly matters. Covid aside the writers had everything going for them in this series. An abundance of fully completed source material to reference, a huge budget, access to one of the greatest writers of our time and someone who directly worked on the books (Brandon Sanderson). They squandered all of it, and came out with a half baked abomination that neither follows the source materials or even it's own made up logic. The only thing getting me through season 1 was my love for the books and a hope it would get better eventually. It didn't and it's turned me off of watching a second season of this dreck.
@philnorfleet1371
@philnorfleet1371 2 жыл бұрын
You made all the way through season 1? You have a crapton more patience and willpower than I do. I bailed after episode 3 in utter disgust and a spoonful of rage, then started re-reading the books from the beginning to get the sour taste out of my memory. Kept up with various people's recaps just to see how bad it actually was and me leaving as early as I did was clearly the right decision on my part.
@Sangtrone
@Sangtrone 2 жыл бұрын
I'm offended by what they did with Thom, and how they failed to give any real focus to the true chosen one Bella.
@charlestruppi7793
@charlestruppi7793 2 жыл бұрын
Overall a good analysis. I know you don’t want to “blame” it in feminism or inclusivity, but Rafe Judkins said in an interview that they changed the binary part of the magic system and the nature of reincarnation (ie, Lews Therin could only reincarnate into a boy in the books) and he said that these changes created fundamental changes to the book lore. The reason the show doesn’t have continuity is because of this main, original sin of non-binary magic and reincarnation. Everything flows from that change and the horrible, reverse engineering that was done to make a new plot.
@FeebleAntelope
@FeebleAntelope 2 жыл бұрын
// Rafe Judkins said in an interview that they changed the binary part of the magic system and the nature of reincarnation..... and he said that these changes created fundamental changes to the book lore. Do you have a source for this interview? I've been collecting sources for things like this related to the production process of the show. .
@im1085
@im1085 2 жыл бұрын
Right if you even have a tiny understanding of the books you would know changing the binary magic system destroys a large amount of the world lore
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
No, I said I dont think diversity and inclusion are the problem. I think the show should have diversity and be inclusive. I think changing the magic to do this in the way they seem to have done it was a bad idea.
@Creslin321
@Creslin321 2 жыл бұрын
If that is true, then I still wouldn’t say that “feminism and inclusivity” broke the show. Instead, I would say that the show runner’s willingness to change core, critical facts of the world to better conform with feminism and inclusivity broke the show. It would have been easily possible to make the show more inclusive without breaking the core systems of the world. There’s already lore which establishes that it’s possible for a female bodied person to channel Saidin. So there is your vehicle for trans representation there. For everything else, the book series already does a good job of representing feminist concepts. Plenty of same sex relationships in the white tower. TONS of very strong female characters. I don’t get why Rafe felt like this series was so regressive that he had to rewrite it to make it politically acceptable.
@charlestruppi7793
@charlestruppi7793 2 жыл бұрын
@@amys0482 in 2018 Rafe wrote a tweet in answer to women and men in the books “I’m a feminist and it’s very important to me that the show is feminist in today’s context. So a lot of those things will be changing” In a Gizmodo interview in early Nov just before the series debut, he answered a question about gendered souls: “in the books, there’s an idea that if you’re born as a man in one life, you’d be born as a man in the next life in the show, we’re not doing that. We’re approaching it as you are a soul and you move through different bodies through whatever life that you’re in. So that’s one. It’s a very fundamental change actually to make to the book series, and it has a lot of ripple effects, and we’ll continue to do things like that I think are more reflective of what hopefully Robert Jordan would be writing if he was writing today.” Those answers from the show runner himself, clearly indicate that he made specific changes to the lore and magic systems and who could be the dragon reborn and all the other issues you have correctly pointed out due to a very specific agenda. Call it leftism, call it woke, call it feminism, whatever. Heck, call it abacadabra, I don’t care. But it’s obvious he went into this project with an end goal and all his choices became subservient to those goals. You’re like a Doctor who is diagnosing a patient who says they have a stomach ache, but are unwilling to dig deeper than the symptoms to see the root cause. It could be they ate bad sushi, could be an ulcer, could be cancer. In the case of this show, which I appreciate you pointing out the problems, but won’t discuss the root cause for some weird reason even though the show runner himself has clearly articulated what they are, we have established root causes. It’s not like the dude woke up one morning and decided to change the core magic system for shits and giggles. He didn’t like that only a man can be the dragon reborn for a very specific, political reason, which he stated, and so he changed stuff to shoe horn the book story into his agenda-driven decision. You can not like that or ignore it, but it doesn’t change that very inconvenient truth. I know people will call me a bigot for some weird reason because I simply point out what the show runner himself said and wrote. At the end of the day, I don’t care if he or Amazon make 1000 original shows with these very specific agendas - it’s their $ so go for it. But in this case, his agenda has (so far) ruined maybe the only chance I’ll get to see a tv adaptation of my favorite book series and so I care. Funny thing is before the show and reading some of Rafe’s comments I argued with people that his political motivations would screw up the show because he would have to change these fundamental core parts of the books to adhere to his beliefs. People said I was crazy and the show would be just like the books. Now that we have all the evidence of the show, people won’t point out Rafe’s beliefs and agenda. I feel like I’m living in the upside down, bizarro world.
@newdawngamingchannel
@newdawngamingchannel 2 жыл бұрын
Diversity and inclusion are not the main problems. Its the fact they use it to excuse all their problems
@frocat5163
@frocat5163 9 ай бұрын
Standard process for virtually all Hollywood adaptations at this point. Step 1: Take an existing property with a built in fanbase and adapt it for film. Step 2: Cast the majority of characters as races / genders other than what they are in the property being adapted. Step 3: Ignore the plot, themes, character arcs, etc. in the source material and create your own. Step 4: Begin receiving criticism for ignoring the plot, themes, character arcs, etc from the built in fanbase you claim to have wanted to woo. Step 5: Accuse everyone criticizing the show of being a bigot and only crapping on the show for that reason. At this point, I honestly believe the people making movies and TV shows are making casts "more diverse" just so they can use 'bigotry' as their ultimate defense for every piece of shit they produce. They know they're creating garbage. But they also know that there's a large enough segment of the population that will join them in dismissing all criticism as bigotry that they're empowered to continue creating garbage and never learning from their mistakes. When there are no consequences for bad decisions, there's no reason to stop making bad decisions.
@Fathergooey
@Fathergooey 2 жыл бұрын
yup! pretty much dead on. What has me the most confused is that the "Xray" shorts are written by the same writers. The shorts are a thousand times better than the show. Unfortunately this show shows some of the worst attributes of people that do not understand Feminism and are harming the ideology by taking it to an extreme. As you know, feminism is about recognizing the strengths of women... If the only way a writer knows how to display the strengths of women is by nerfing all of the men, they are not a feminist, they are a bully. By making all of the female characters Mary Sue's and all of the men inept the writers are implying that women are right by creation and men are wrong by the same... neither of which are true... and both of which harm the story, and our society as a whole. If they kept Lan as being a great warrior then it makes Moirane that much more impressive that he needs her strength and knowledge. Instead he comes off as her puppy dog. The women in the show have no room to grow, because they are overpowered without the knowledge... The men have all the room to grow but wont because that would subvert the idea that they are inept because of their gender. So as a story it cannot have any story arcs. Like you, I had hoped for the best with this show. But I fear what we both have gotten from the show is the fear that they have only begun to defile it.
@zunaidparker
@zunaidparker 2 жыл бұрын
They're written by the same writers?!?! What. The. Actual.
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine 2 жыл бұрын
All the Wheel of Time Origins videos were written by Rammy Park. She didn't write any of the main show episodes.
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine that's what I thought
@Fathergooey
@Fathergooey 2 жыл бұрын
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine oh dear, my mistake. shows me for not double checking an argument that was made to me.
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine 2 жыл бұрын
@@Fathergooey no worries. 😁
@mickypea1
@mickypea1 2 жыл бұрын
A beautiful wrap up to your series about the first season - bravo! I don't know if you've seen a video posted by Bookborn on KZfaq. She gave a very well researched presentation on the recent PR/Marketing ploy in fantasy adaptations of making the public believe the production teams/actors are huge fans of the work being adapted - by having them state multiple times in the media how they are fans, shots of them holding the books etc. She doesn't make any claims on whether these people are true fans or not but the strategy is very real. She related this to what's happened to the Wheel of Time and the Witcher and I have to say I agree that's what's happened here. Whether Rafe Judkins or Rosamond Pike are fans or not, the PR department definitely worked very hard to make the public believe this. It would have been fine if they actually delivered something satisfying even if different. The mess that was presented is what's going to bite them in the end because now they will be perceived as liars - and as you suggested, stringing fans along.
@johnnystorm3747
@johnnystorm3747 2 жыл бұрын
the new audible version which included the earlier prologue "Ravens" is read by Rosamond Pike so she at least has read the book... I still think they should have hired Michael Crammer and Kate Redding to be Narrators for the TV show...and consultants.
@Catrell
@Catrell 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for giving this an honest review. Your disappointment in this show is well articulated and it's refreshing to see a fan be willing to publicly stand up for the spirit of the story, despite claims that we only want a word for word adaptation.
@mirozen_
@mirozen_ 2 жыл бұрын
It would be nice if someday in the future they make a TV series based upon the "Wheel of Time" books written by Robert Jordan. I say this because that is not what they have done here - and that's sad.
@opiotain
@opiotain 2 жыл бұрын
Can you publish your S1 plot line as you drew it? Really keen to see what that would have looked like. Also the "this is called a darling" bit is brilliant 😂 never heard that before.
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
Darlings are a really old concept! Dating back to 1914
@Cassandra112
@Cassandra112 2 жыл бұрын
yeah, about dana. no really. the show did not actually bother to make it clear what the Dark one is, or if he's actually bad. I've not read the books, so I don't know how or when the books got to setting that up. but yeah from the show. is the dark one a person? is the dark one, some amorphous evil entity existing before creation, like Chaos/apophis.? is it a rival or split of the creator, shar/selune? a creation of the creator gone bad, lucifer/melchoir? IS the wheel a mistake? endless repeating till all is ground to dust? Dana's explanation is the ONLY one we got on the nature of reality. They didnt actually explain the position of the Light. like as you mentioned in the last vid. a show watcher, you might not even know there was more then one Fade. and in fact, theres a good chance you thought the Fade was the dark one. or then the guy in the dream. and the end. who as noted, is probably Ish. but thats totally out of show knowledge. the show constantly fauning over how Egg is the most powerful channeler ever.. despite not once showing it. Baffling. ish "I thought Egg was the dragon" as he winks at the camera. the showrunners thought the Audience would think it was Egg. I.. just don't get it. was there deleted scenes?
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
Also a waste of a good actress. She was one of the most likable and charismatic characters in this production.
@gilian2587
@gilian2587 2 жыл бұрын
To be fair... the show indicates that Nynaeve is more powerful than Egwene. It was referenced by Siuan in episode 6. I am not defending Rafe and his writer team; but, the show keeps the relative difference in strength between Egg and Nynaeve roughly consistent with the books.
@Cassandra112
@Cassandra112 2 жыл бұрын
@@gilian2587 well thats the thing. Visually, we have "shine like the sun", and Nynaeve. show watchers have no reason to think anyone but Nynaeve is "the dragon". she appears to dwarf everyone else power wise. However, the CHARACTERS in the show repeatedly assert Egg is the strongest.. for some reason. Lan says it to moraine. asserted both he and Moraine think Egg is the strongest. why do these characters keep saying this? when theres no reason for us to think that? Id have to double check if siuan does say nynaeve in ep6. there are repeated times when its Egg asserted as being more powerful, by everyone else.
@gilian2587
@gilian2587 2 жыл бұрын
@@Cassandra112 Clarity does not appear to be the showrunner's forte.
@merc9nine
@merc9nine 2 жыл бұрын
The diversity isn't the problem, it's the ideology that goes along with thinking diversity is more important than the story and characters. Or the arrogance of these low skilled writers to think they could do it better than was already done. It's like they all thought we were here to see "their twist "on Wheel of Time, instead of, ya know, Robert Jordan's twist, called the Wheel of Time.
@dbeaton1111
@dbeaton1111 2 жыл бұрын
I could accept the changes Rafe and co made to the books -- if they made story sense. I'm dismayed to see my favorite characters devalued and put on the sidelines, but I could suck that up if the story was made more interesting as a result. I could also easily accept Nynaeve, Egwene, and Moiraine taking center stage, as they are interesting characters in the books. And yet, the choices the writers have made do not make the story more interesting. Men who behave like beta males and helpless fools do not interest me, nor do Mary Sues. Real tension, an understandable antagonist, comprehensible stakes, and believable actions, do. I see a woman in labor throwing a spear at 100 mph with a flick of her arm and leaping 4 ft in the air like Michael Jordan while yanking a 200 lb man backward as if he were nothing. Great, except that this isn't the act of a human being, it's Wonder Woman. If this were a Kung Fu movie with people flying through the air, it might make sense, but it isn't. Why not have that pregnant woman kill one overconfident warrior after a desperate struggle, then collapse and have her baby? Real struggle, real tension. I waited patiently until episode 8 was over to come to the conclusion that this was absolutely intentional. It isn't an adaptation, it's a new turning of the wheel with different characters and a different plot. Obviously, there's an agenda at work here, but even agenda-driven shows have occasionally been known to have entertainment value. Agenda aside, it's not just bad writing but writing that the writers and showrunner apparently feel will be forgiven -- and even applauded -- because of the underlying message. Why else would they do this?
@Dovieandi_Se_Tovya_Sagain
@Dovieandi_Se_Tovya_Sagain 2 жыл бұрын
Well said
@Telkor
@Telkor 2 жыл бұрын
I'm not even sure I like giving them the excuse that it's a new turning. It just gives them reason to change whatever they please . If they're going to change the story so much, fine...but why then call it the Wheel Of Time?? With the same character names and everything. It'd been better if they chose some other turning of the wheel entirely imo. The books have problems, no doubt. But the story itself is fantastic. The central themes really did not need changing. It's sad to see them take this story in a direction fans dislike. Seemingly on purpose.
@domoarigato3000
@domoarigato3000 2 жыл бұрын
I can accept most of the changes, but some are just poor decisions. Why devote so much time to side characters? Why did they add a love triangle, not like there wasn't enough tension, we needed more light hearted moments. What's puzzling me are the things they didn't cut. I love loail, but his addition to this telling is pointless. Moraine already takes his role. Raffle jokes about cutting Thom out.... they should have. Bring him in when he will be relevant. The show feels rushed. It'd have been better to establish the core 7 characters and stay true to the themes.
@languagelearningexperience6814
@languagelearningexperience6814 2 жыл бұрын
For me on the whole equality issue. I feel like they missed the point in the books. I think there could and should be some modernisation but for the most part RJ wrote incredibly important, powerful, strong interesting, essential women. I felt like the split was even in the books, I feel like Rand wouldn't have been anything without all of the people in team dragon, especially the women. I feel what the show did actually cheapened the women's power and presence. You have Moraine looking more and more like she had no idea what was going on for example. We skipped over the incredible entrance of Morgase... The white tower was full of bickering clueless school kids. The oath rod was misused... It just felt like they missed the point by a long margin.
@AngryDuck79
@AngryDuck79 2 жыл бұрын
I think one of the fundamental aspects of powerful characters are flaws they overcome or struggle against, and it seems like no one who wants to write "strong female characters" understand this point. Strong doesn't mean flawless, it means successfully overcoming those flaws. Thats what makes a character compelling and a story worth investing in.
@languagelearningexperience6814
@languagelearningexperience6814 2 жыл бұрын
@@AngryDuck79 this is very very true.
@Syaniiti
@Syaniiti 2 жыл бұрын
The writing of the show is aggressively bad, and the production values seem to be all over the place. During season 1 they have: 1) Managed to make Randland tiny with very little points of interest, you skip a "month" because there is nothing of interest on the way, not even a nice view for a montage. 2) Remove all stakes due to an untrained channeler being able to resurrect the dead or heal multiple people at one time. 3) Turn one of the more terrifying things (Machin shin) into a therapist telling people the truth. 4) Lessen the (future) achievements of Egwene and Nynaeve by making them Ta'veren. 5) Turn Mat into a thief, Perrin into a useless mouthbreather and Rand into a lovesick puppy while removing all possible development from their characters while also turning Lan in an incompetent lapdog for one of the dumbest characters in the show - Moiraine. 6) Turn Moiraine into an absolute muppet who doesn't seem to have 2 brain cells to rub together. 7) Exclude Ogier from the ways built for the Ogiers (by male channelers) by requiring channeling to enter, luckily Padan Fain has learned to channel at some point. 8) Contradict its own writing and worldbuilding not only within the season but within one episode. 9) Add your own I'm done with this garbage fire.
@yogurl6004
@yogurl6004 2 жыл бұрын
Don't forget what they did to Abell!! Honestly that hurt me the most.
@Syaniiti
@Syaniiti 2 жыл бұрын
@@yogurl6004 One could argue that Abell was included in the "turn Mat into a thief" - part but I'm not going to argue that point and just say you are correct good sir/madam.
@ljc6181
@ljc6181 2 жыл бұрын
Just bad writing. You are so accurate to point out that the excuses offered by many are not the real problem. In my opinion, Rafe seems to be aiming at certain cinematically powerful scenes (aka. Blood Snow), but has no plan to bring them together. The confusion is overwhelming , there really is no rationale reason for them changing the core/foundation of the story. Especially without providing new consistent themes. So many problems that I have no confidence they can restore. The treatment of the male characters is beyond curious - time will provide more on that. Great stuff, Amy.
@hiredgoon93
@hiredgoon93 2 жыл бұрын
The only good thing about this show is that its encouraged me to go back and read the books again after 20 years!
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
That is true! EotW also jumped up to the Best Seller's list. So the book series is getting a revival. That part is great!
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine 2 жыл бұрын
The youtube channel "Me, My Skirt, and I" has published a video within the last few hours that analyses how Rand was derived from Arthurian legend people written in the 1100s. It's so fascinating I've bought an audiobook of a translation of the original medieval story. I can thank the show for what I feel will be an intriguing read. Also, I hope to ask deeper questions as I read from watching all the analysis on this channel too. ✋
@hiredgoon93
@hiredgoon93 2 жыл бұрын
I really dont buy the "not enough episodes to tell the story" excuse. EotW is, as you say, relatively easy to put in 8 episodes. And, if it was difficult to do so, how come there are so many scenes (and entire episodes) that are not in the books?? I dont claim to be a super fan of the books or know the lore inside and out but I am pretty familiar with it. I class myself as a moderate fan of the books. I am, however, a big fan of well-written tv shows. And this is absolutely NOT one of those. So I wont be going back for season 2.
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine Rand is also a jesus figure. Temper your expectations on the Arthurian legend influences. Elayne, Galad, Morgase, Gawyn, Nyneave, Egwene, some other characters have names inspired by characters in those tales, but the arthurian tales are a very patchy, inconsistent, contradictory mythology. The forsaken are also named after demons in the Bible but that doesn't matter either. They're more homages than intentional allusions. OverlySarcastic has a great summary of the Arthurian myths.
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n8WamqleuJ2YZqM.html
@WolfintheMeadow
@WolfintheMeadow 2 жыл бұрын
It's not a rumor - Brandon Sanderson said it. He said that was the original script, and he was very emphatic about it breaking the Aes Sedai, so it was changed. But killing him with lightning was the original plan.
@glenbe4026
@glenbe4026 2 жыл бұрын
i am not sure why the killing was needed in the first place
@WolfintheMeadow
@WolfintheMeadow 2 жыл бұрын
@@glenbe4026 It wasn't. Completely pointless, just cheap drama.
@mjbull5156
@mjbull5156 2 жыл бұрын
It shows how much the writers do not care about or perhaps understand Jordan's worldbuilding. There is a comparison to how the major cultural groups in the world set limits on the superhuman channelers in their midst, because they can and have done mischief in the present age. None of them are great for the individual channelers, though the White Tower solution may be the least worst.
@glenbe4026
@glenbe4026 2 жыл бұрын
@@mjbull5156 Actually I feel there are many instances in the Wheel of Time that do better at setting limits on the Superhuman channellers than the Aes Sedai. That is the Windfinders, the Kin & the Wise Ones. These three groups make themselves part of their communities thus self-impose limits on themselves. Now I do not automatically believe self-imposed limits in the real world, are the best limits, but in the Wheel of Time that seems to be the case. The Aes Sedai, the Sharan Channelers and the Damane are all separated from the rest of the populations - The Aes Sedai/Sharan Channelers by seeing themselves above everyone else, and the Damane by being considered below everyone else.
@mjbull5156
@mjbull5156 2 жыл бұрын
@@glenbe4026 Yes, I was speaking of the known channelers of major political regions. It is not general knowledge in the world that the Wndfinders and large numbers of Wise Ones are channelers, and the Kin are an almost completely underground network. The White Tower as an organization is actually quite similar in raison d'etre to the Psi Corps in Babylon 5.
@FeebleAntelope
@FeebleAntelope 2 жыл бұрын
1.) // .....this video is not going to be a complaint about the tv show being woke trash or woke feminist trash or some kind of a representation of fourth wave feminism whatever you think that means.....in my opinion diversity and inclusion are not the problems with this tv show. For what it's worth, thank the light you're saying this. It's honestly exhausting sifting through all the reaction videos that almost immediately start going on about "Woke Hollywood" and then lean heavily into rants about feminism while skating right past the actual narrative problems with the show. It's been hard to find many videos that are organized and don't get distracted with culture war nonsense. 2.) // 22:17 .... overall it's a pretty good episode; it sets up Nynaeve to be a powerful character.... One thing that strikes me about the magic system in the show is that they changed it from a Hard Magic system with clear rules and limitations, as it was in the books, to Soft Magic, which largely lacks those things. *And I think one issue with that is, when a story is going to involve characters using magic to solve problems, making the rules and limitations clear is part of the narrative set-up that makes solving problems later on with magic actually pay off.* So the huge glaring issue with Nynaeve spontaneously healing a room full of people at a distance before she EVEN knows she can channel, is that there's no set-up. She just does it. She doesn't earn it in any way. She doesn't train. She doesn't even know she can channel yet and just does this amazing thing. They didn't need to set Nynaeve up to be a powerful channeler; she's a strong character before she trains up as a channeler. Her power level becomes clear soon enough in the narrative, just not in Book 1. The production team lacked the proper patience to build this character up as she deserved. And in the process, continued the process of mucking up the magic system. Throughout Season 1, characters just do stuff with the One Power. Egwene heals Nynaeve from death or near death and being burned out. 5 untrained channelers just link into a circle and destroy tens of thousands of trollocs. Rand doesn't suffer channeling sickness. So far, they've done a great disservice to the story going forward. Magic is simply used to solve issues for characters but isn't properly set-up for it to properly pay-off. It just seems cheap and random. And it's only going to get worse as the story progresses and more major events involving the One Power come along.
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, they have killed what was fun about the magic. I think episode 4 could have worked if it has just been Lan wounded and Nyneave Heals him on beginner's instinct and then is shown in the next episode to be unable to do anything due to both a Block and lack of training.
@FeebleAntelope
@FeebleAntelope 2 жыл бұрын
[Re-submitted because you literally referenced something in my previous comment that made it obsolete. lol?] 1.) // "I think episode 4 could have worked if it has just been Lan wounded and Nyneave Heals him on beginner's instinct and then is shown in the next episode to be unable to do anything due to both a Block and lack of training." This would have worked for me! And it's not a complicated solution. It was kind of staring them right in the face, though clearly the way they spitball ideas (bear brother? wtf), they clearly give zero fucks. It sounds like the writers room in Matrix: Resurrections. It really makes me wonder what on earth their collaborative process is. This shouldn't have been hard. And like, I *want* to assume Judkins is acting in good faith, but the way he seemed to get *enjoyment* out of screwing with Sarah Nakamura, indicates to me something about his attitude towards people who care about the lore of WOT. He would dump a ton of work on her by suggesting they were going to kill off Character X and then watch with amusement as she "collapses as a human being" and lols at the thought she wouldn't agree that it's funny. Like how did anyone think this was the person to be a good steward of such a huge series with a ton of lore? 2.) I note that he said he grew up a gay man in conservative Utah (a situation I wouldn't wish on anyone) in a Mormon family and the Wheel of Time was part of how he connected with his mother, who is a hardcore fan. // "He’s also a fan. Judkins read the books at a formative age and he’s discussed how he and his mother used the books as a way to connect with each other, he as a young gay kid in Utah and she as a matriarch in a Mormon family." // // "The Wheel of Time gave them a way to connect and build empathy for these characters who had to exist in a world where they were different. With that in mind, he feels a particular weight of responsibility to do right by fans like himself." Source: www.polygon.com/interviews/22788333/wheel-of-time-amazon-showrunner-adaptation-interview Like that must be one *interesting* relationship with his mother if he actually read all the books and it's part of his relationship with his mother as he grew up, and THIS is his attitude towards the lore. Like let's be real here, if his mother was the kind of person who was so into the books that she got a "Who killed Asmodean?" bumper sticker and he supposed her loves her and he'd still do THIS to a series he knows she loves? Something that they supposedly enjoyed together? I just don't get what his damage is, but he seems like a complicated dude to say the least. *I feel like there's a documentary in here somewhere.* 3.) On the subject of this possibly being the only adaptation for this story: I mean, a lot of things keep getting rebooted if they have any appeal at all. Battlestar Galactica, Fullmetal Alchemist, Dr. Who, Twin Peaks, Veronica Mars, One Day at at Time, Ducktales, and so on. I don't think this has to be the only adaptation we'll get.
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
@@FeebleAntelope I would watch a documentary on Rafe's life written by and starring Rafe 😅 Also, the Ducktales reboot is pretty good. Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood was just the manga done right... unless there is a third one I haven't heard about O_O
@FeebleAntelope
@FeebleAntelope 2 жыл бұрын
@@amys0482 1.) //I would watch a documentary on Rafe's life written by and starring Rafe He was born but somehow the narrative would contradict this. :P 2.) Haven't seen the Ducktales reboot really. I was skeptical and really liked the Indiana Jones-esque 5 part mini-series that opened the older version in the late 80s. But I might try it out. :) 3.) // Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood was just the manga done right... unless there is a third one I haven't heard about Yep, just talking about those two, Brotherhood (-chef's kiss-) and the first adaptation that had to make up its own ending. I don't believe there's been a third and can't see one being made? Who knows these days. 4.) Yeah, it seems like a word salad of a script at the point when Ishamael being freed or whatever is supposed to be going on. The themes are unclear. Things are constantly being set-up but not paid off and things are paid off that haven't been set-up. I watched one episode with my GF and quickly apologized. Then we started watching The Expanse and holy shit that's so well written. Themes are clear. So many things are set-up and paid off in satisfying ways within each episode, between episodes, and across the 1st season anyway. It's so ridiculously well done compared to Wheel of Time, it makes me sad they couldn't get someone better to helm the WOT show.
@remixisthis
@remixisthis 2 жыл бұрын
Good thorough review. The writing is really sloppy for this series which is a shame considering the amount of resources they’re getting.
@projectmertle9625
@projectmertle9625 2 жыл бұрын
And the sheer wealth of the source material.
@teamhonn
@teamhonn 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for taking the time to share with us.
@TheJreesing
@TheJreesing 2 жыл бұрын
All in all it makes me really sad. I was big into the community before the show came out and now I don't even want to participate. I'm surprised about how fast I've lost respect for people who just want to be positive for positive sake instead of being honest.
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine 2 жыл бұрын
Well said. I agree with you. On the "other side" I've also lost respect for some people who have been outrightly nasty to be point of scariness in their criticism of the show.
@TheJreesing
@TheJreesing 2 жыл бұрын
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine first it think Amazon is the one that started it by making a show that they knew would be divisive in 2021. However the wot community fell for it hook line in sinker when they would ban or excise anyone who wasn't thrilled and the casting. I got shouted down when in the trailer I expressed that channelling looked stupid. All in all I just wish people would be allowed to express their opinions without being called sexist or racist or whatever.
@christianherrmann6257
@christianherrmann6257 2 жыл бұрын
Real activism tries to elevate everyone to create a better society for all. The labor movements, the civil rights movement, the fight for women's suffrage all made our societies (in the west) better and more civilized. The goal was equality, as in equal rights and the realization that no one is worth more than the next man/woman. That's true inclusivity and diversity for me personally. There are no races, there is just one race - the human race. Everyone should be seen as a person first, regardless of sex/gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation etc. Rafe Judkins is quoted as being a feminist/activist first. a) as a showrunner you have to be a showrunner first. b) I sincerely doubt his activism. As you mentioned already, I got a distinct misandrist vibe from this show, too. I never watched anything in my whole life (and I'm past 40) that left me offended as a man. Mr. Judkins (and I blame him because he is the showrunner/one in charge) seems to have a deeply rooted problem with men/masculinity in general. Look at the 'male role models' in this show - the warders. Only after losing all agency and accepting female leadership they are redeemed as men! Stepin and Lan were lost and directionless, had nothing to live for and Stepin (the bully who beat up the weak) could even be the posterboy for 'toxic masculinity'. The message seems clear. All men are villains by nature and must therefore removed from all positions of power. Just look at how men in power are portrayed in this show. That is not inclusive at all. This worldview is in no way different from someone who thinks a women's place is either in the bedroom or the kitchen. It is this pov turned on its head. That is neither feminist (based on equality) nor a world view worth fighting for. It is just divisive and truly toxic imo. No amount of token diversity can make me overlook this blatant hatred towards men. Ps: Little sidenote: the power STRUCTURE in our society is a problem, not who is holding office/power. But I won't go into that or I'll never finish. I really liked your analysis of the show and the one's you did previously on the episodes.
@zionssuburb
@zionssuburb 2 жыл бұрын
I think one other item of the storyline that is going to cause problems in the future is that of Logain - His presence on screen was really powerful, and is shown with great power, if they bring him back in any way he'll outshine any of the two rivers people, particularly Rand, rand will look like a child next to Logain. Again, maybe that was purposeful, but I don't understand where that's going.
@agreen3030
@agreen3030 2 жыл бұрын
57:00 The source on Rafe maybe wanting to have Moiraine kill the ferryman with lightning is from Brandon Sanderson's thoughts on episode 2 on reddit. He isn't completely clear on if they were going to actually have him struck by lightning, or if the scenario is a hypothetical. Here's the quote: "My most relevant lore contribution here probably involved pointing out some Three Oaths issues, and having Rafe go talk to Team Jordan to sort them out. Those are tricky to navigate. For example, it's all right to have a whirlpool made by Moiraine suck down the ferry after Hightower jumped in and swam to it, particularly if she has stopped channeling. It's not okay, though, for her to sink that ferry with lightning while he's on it--even if he's bringing it toward the trollocs, which will put her in danger."
@resurrection1174
@resurrection1174 2 жыл бұрын
As someone who has read all the books 5 times and a lot of the earlier books many times more than that as they come out over the many years. My disappointment in the show is all encompassing and so overwhelming it's hard to accurately Express. Thank you for helping articulate some of the points I've tried to put into words. The sexes are very even in The wheel of Time great female characters great male characters. There's even jokes for the women and jokes for the men. I don't know why they felt the need to demasculate the men. I hate to say it but go woke go broke and especially so if you have no story that makes any semblance of sense. I hope they can make a proper one before I die.
@bearzerger
@bearzerger 2 жыл бұрын
The fundamental problem with the adaptation is that amazon desperately wanted the show to be their own Game of Thrones. They looked at the average adult epic fantasy and realized that for the most part they are still a bit of a boys club. Most of the successful authors are male and the larger part of the readership is as well. Then they found WOT which is a hugely successful series and which for a by now classic has a larger female fanbase than most. However, the problem is that since it's been 30 years since the first book has been published its fanbase is to a large part outside the coveted 14 to 29 year old target demographic. The writers didn't have faith that the show as it was could still appeal to that demo, so they changed it because they wanted as broad an appeal as possible. And their lack of faith in the story is the key issue. GOT certainly wanted to be as successful as possible, but unlike with WOT they didn't set out with the explicit goal of becoming the global phenomenon it turned out to be. That enabled them to remain faithful to the story in the first seasons and to allow the quality of the story to gain the audience over time. WOT set out with GOT as the benchmark and that made them compromise the story first to hit all quadrants and second in their desperation for immediate success they went for instant gratification in a number of plotlines. And especially the latter is pretty much anathema to RJ's writing style. He was all about delayed gratification, sometimes frustratingly so. That's why everyone had to learn to channel proficiently over books, why Nynaeve's and Lan's romance took forever until consummation and why Egwene's Amyrlin arc took several books until it reached its climax etc. In this show I don't think anyone will ever need to learn to channel or anything else for that matter, Nynaeve and Lan have already had sex and since Moiraine has apparently been stilled her bond with Lan is already broken, so Nynaeve can bond him as her warder in season 2 and I wouldn't be surprised if Egwene became Amyrlin of the rebels at the end of season 3 and reunified the Tower in season 4.
@armaogeddon
@armaogeddon 2 жыл бұрын
Spot on analysis... except for the part where this trash-fire of a show makes it to season 4!
@bearzerger
@bearzerger 2 жыл бұрын
@@armaogeddon Amazon is too big to fail. As long as the lobby within is strong enough success doesn't matter for the show.
@foxesofautumn
@foxesofautumn 2 жыл бұрын
The girls can channel safely and accurately with no training, Lan and Nynaeve fell in love in a night, had sex and then Lan says “oh we can’t be together” and it’s all trash. What kind of nonsense behaviour is this? These characters make no sense and so how can I be invested in their relationship when it makes them make no sense as people. Exhausting.
@DrakeBarrow
@DrakeBarrow 2 жыл бұрын
That wine rack in the backdrop is entirely appropriate for the topic at hand.
@Perry_Wolf
@Perry_Wolf 2 жыл бұрын
52:05 - Listening to and/or reading comments from Rafe has made it increasingly clear to me he lives in a world of his own fabrication, and I don't mean the show, I mean his actual life and perception of this world. I'm not trying to be insulting towards him, but for all the world, when you see him talk about the show, it seems like he's seeing a completely different show than the rest of us. It's baffling, truly. In "The Look Inside: Episode 8" bonus content he says; "If you've just watched the end of Episode 108, (S01E08), then you've seen the climax of everything that we were building towards in this first season." - Then, in a rather pleased and full of himself manner says, "So, congratulations and thank you!" For what?! Is what I'm wondering. As far as I could tell, there was more of the same from the season, but no real climax. My brother, who hasn't read the books, and just going off the story of season one, said episode 8 seemed to completely negate the entire season, he felt it set up season two to be a complete restart. No payoff to season one at all. I'm completely in agreement that the use of "woke" for this series is entirely erroneous. It's how you have said it and it has put almost every male character, with possible exception of Thom and Lan, in the back seat and lacking in character development and payoff.
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
oof for Rafe. I wonder how his Christmas went? I know he and Sarah "coincidentally" both happened to take a break from social media at the same time that these episodes dropped and stayed offline until the new year. "Coincidentally"
@adc1222
@adc1222 2 жыл бұрын
The thing that really got me is that if people in the series legitimately believed that the dragon reborn could be a woman, then the entire story would change, and the showrunners don't address any of the consequences. The main danger of the dragon is that he's a man who can channel and men who channel go mad, if it was a woman then there is no risk of madness. The red ajah would likely be in complete denial of the possibility of a man being the dragon, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was an entire new ajah dedicated solely to searching for the "true" woman dragon. There would also have been tons of false women dragons over time too. Any particularly powerful or egotistical woman who channelled is likely to believe they're the dragon. Moiraine could have just told the tower "hey I think i found a woman dragon in the two River's" and she'd have dozens of sisters ready to support her. Sure it would be a problem when the truth was revealed, but she had no way of knowing that, and the natural inclination of most people would be to refuse to believe the terrible truth about the dragon being a man.
@Agantyr23
@Agantyr23 2 жыл бұрын
You are absolutly right! I never thought about it that way. Elaida would surely have proclaimed herself as Dragon, and I can see the Red Ajah's main agenda to kill potential male Dragons until that soul is reborn female.
@step4018
@step4018 2 жыл бұрын
@@Agantyr23 Yes that would fit Elaida totally. The only twist with the show is that the Dark One apparently can only free themselves with the help of the Dragon, so kill every Dragon be they male or female and the world will be peace on Earth...
@adc1222
@adc1222 2 жыл бұрын
@@step4018 that SHOULD be how things work if the show was being consistent, but when they showed the age of legends it was basically a futuristic paradise, with no sense of tension or stakes, and the dark one was apparently already free then. If LTT had done nothing at all then it would have apparently continued to be a paradise
@gregk9710
@gregk9710 2 жыл бұрын
I've watched several analysis' of the show and this is by far the best. Hopefully, the writers for the second season will watch this so they can do a better job.
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine 2 жыл бұрын
Filming for season 2 is already wrapping up. Too late.
@theawebster1505
@theawebster1505 2 жыл бұрын
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine It doesn't matter, since we are not watching season 2 :)
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine 2 жыл бұрын
@@theawebster1505 oh no. Don't give up on it just yet.
@funkyd3321
@funkyd3321 2 жыл бұрын
It is really easy to figure out why the Rotten Tomatoes score for the show is higher for critics... Just read them! You will see that the vast majority of them only reviewed the first 3 episodes. Some are after only 6 episodes, leaving the disaster ending out.
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, I covered this in a different video. They got 6 episodes at the same time viewers got 3.
@infamouscola
@infamouscola 2 жыл бұрын
Never read the books but the show felt off i kept asking myself "why are the men always just standing around doing nothing? Then i realize it was intentional....i stop watching it
@moma-b
@moma-b 2 жыл бұрын
26:11 LOL, I missed that contradiction.😂Because she also says in ep8 when Rand asks her about the Eye, that ALL knowledge of this place was lost from the Tower's archives because of Darkfriends. Moiraine systematically contradicts herself throughout season 1 which is funny from a person who shouldn't be able to lie.🤣
@Sammael757
@Sammael757 2 жыл бұрын
Very well thought out and excellently presented, thank you! You summed up in a few simple sentences the frustration I tried to express to my wife while I endured the season: (loose summary) there are times when knowledge of the books/actual story is required to undersrand what's goung on, and times where it interferes with understanding. By the last episode I was sadly just glad it was over, rather than being excited on any level for the next season.
@jasonpratt5126
@jasonpratt5126 2 жыл бұрын
Amy: starts the videoooooooo NOW! Cat: *suddenly exists* Audience: awww, kitty! Cat: *goal achieved*
@teamhonn
@teamhonn 2 жыл бұрын
It is hard to image that you could be part of a writing team and not have read the books a couple of times. How could you get the big picture so you would know what to change to make it fit in the budget and in the number of shows that you have. If what you say is true about them not reading the books then this is going to just be a mess and they are going to have to keep all the rules soft so they can write themselves out of all the corners they get into.
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
Correct.
@aurlenejayadhas2266
@aurlenejayadhas2266 2 жыл бұрын
I actually thought Rand shouting at Moiraine was appropriate, he’s the only one who a) has the courage to question her despite her power b) he’s not going to be led along like sheep by any AES sedai which is on par with his book characterisation ‘he’s not going to be a puppet on AES sedai strings c) also not trusting a stranger would be the intelligent thing to do, especially with AES sedai known for being cunning and manipulative. I love your videos btw, none of the hyperbole of some channels to say the least 😁
@bluelight17
@bluelight17 2 жыл бұрын
I agree. And it honestly annoyed me how the show made it look like Rand was acting as a petulant child in that scene, and that's because with Moiraine being the main of the season we immediately see that she is trustworthy (and the village doesn't even seem that fazed by her being an Aes Sedai). It didn't help that Mat was somehow the voice of reason here, that Perrin was too traumatized to give any opinion and that they made Rand "attack" Egwene for leaving him.
@aurlenejayadhas2266
@aurlenejayadhas2266 2 жыл бұрын
@@bluelight17 So true! As I read the book and have a clear book POV, I thought Rand was acting Rand in that scene. And yes, Mat should have been like ‘Let’s leave these flaming AES sedai behind’ and Perrin should have been the voice of reason. Still I’m glad there’s a scene like that, at the very least it gives Rand something to do and say! Also, they’re 20, which of us didn’t act a little moody or petulant at 20? I know I did 🤷🏽‍♀️
@bluelight17
@bluelight17 2 жыл бұрын
@@aurlenejayadhas2266 Yeah, i just didn't like how they framed it. Perrin too doesn't trust the Aes Sedai in the book, but he would have made more sense than Mat as voice of reason at least. Not sure how people expect 20 years old from a remote village to behave. I've seen my share of friends/relationship dramas when i was in my 20s, and there were no shadowspawn around lol Even more when i see readers expect them to be mature from the get go. Yeah, they are annoying but they are teenagers😅
@aurlenejayadhas2266
@aurlenejayadhas2266 2 жыл бұрын
@@bluelight17 It makes perfect sense for Rand to be upset cos most likely this was his first ever relationship, and he’s had a thing for Egwene since forever and hasn’t met any other girl who takes his interest yet. It would have been suspect if they’d shown him getting over it in the space of an episode. Which is why they should have gone for the ‘Will they? Won’t they?’ thing in the books, it would have made for an interesting watch, I feel Lan and Nynaeve in the show have no chemistry and no development either, shows like Castle and Lucifer worked almost entirely on ‘Will they? Won’t they?’ Well Rafe certainly doesn’t know which time tested TV tropes work! Lan’s monologue to Nynaeve in the last episode felt cringeworthy when it was a poignant moment in the books.
@DmGray
@DmGray 2 жыл бұрын
On "it seems to imply men are inferior" I don't ACTUALLY mind this, as gender politics is a huge theme in the books... but there's no counterbalance. The men think women are weird and that men are sensible... and then women think men are weird and women are sensible. We get to see BOTH perspectives and see JUST how both men and women struggle to say what they really mean, or fear how they will be taken if they do. It hits SO true because it is so accurate to life. We share more than makes us different, but it's the differences that appear to be vast gulfs between us. In the books, the "men are bad, throw rocks at them" is established with world building. Men broke the world. While everyone appreciates that men aren't actually to blame, there is ALWAYS that snare to throw up (and that shit happens irl ALL THE TIME. "men oppressed women throughout history" people will claim, refusing to acknowledge complexity, nuance or how terrible life was for basically everyone for most of history) I actually think the show doesn't explore this NEARLY enough! So much of the humour has been lost as many of these misunderstandings or "sexist thoughts" men and women have about each other are VERY funny! The people who take it too far (Red Ajah mostly) are RIGHTLY seen as a necessary evil that goes too far at times... and the outright misandry inspires distrust FROM men towards women. It's all SUCH a great way to explore these ideas in a fantasy setting. The idea that yes, men are dangerous ("more so than women") but that this is not a justification for bigotry and it does NOT take into account that men are ALSO protectors. Or that women take it as their place to control and manipulate men for their own good even as men condescendingly "let the women have their own way" while "putting their foot down when it matters" All very believable from simply watching people in my own life (from across the political spectrum and age range. My Nan was very much the head of the family for instance, even as she performed the "tradwife" role) (MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD) The fact is that the breaking happened because the bore was made in an attempt to unite men and women in their use of the power. Both an altruistic pursuit but ALSO a selfish one, depending on how you view it. The hundred companions attempted to seal the bore KNOWING there would be dire consequences because the women refused to help. The women refused due to jealousy and manipulation from the shadow. So in a VERY real sense, women were responsible for the breaking as with their power, the dark one could not have tainted Saidar with his counter stroke. All of this can be read multiple ways, and I know for a FACT some will read misogyny into my interpretation (though I believe it is accurate) "blaming women for the evil men did!" but it very much is not that... it's the idea that knowledge founded in facts can lead to wrong conclusions and that the reality is often far more complex. Are women ACTUALLY responsible because they refused to aid the Dragon? Or are BOTH "sides" at fault for different reasons, and is blame ENTIRELY ridiculous to begin with because individuals made mistakes or were manipulated? Jordan was a master. The show is ABSOLUTELY letting him down because people with less talent than he had in his pinky are making "creative" decisions.
@glenroberts9831
@glenroberts9831 2 жыл бұрын
A major theme in the books is that Rand refuses to acknowledge that he is the Dragon Reborn. The idea terrifies him and he fights against it no matter how much evidence is thrown in his face. It's not until book 3 that he starts to accept it, so having him stroll up to Moiraine and say 'yeah I'm the dragon ' before even going to the eye is so out of character that my mouth dropped. And yes. the world building and writing is simply horrible.
@DaviHorner
@DaviHorner 2 жыл бұрын
I would say book 4, but I agree with you.
@Gilescowdemdem
@Gilescowdemdem 2 жыл бұрын
So stoked to see the viewcount on this so high. It's a great analysis. Edit: Having watched the full video I wanted to expand on this comment with some other thoughts. Disclaimer, I spent the first 3/4 of the season fairly happy to defend the series on Reddit because I work in film, I've worked on large productions and I get the reason they made a lot of changes and also appreciate the cluster f*ck that Matt peacing out would have caused in addition to covid. However, I was not blind to its shortcomings and often found the choices they made curious and interesting assuming, in my childlike innocence, that this would all be woven together into a cohesive finale which paid off everything and gave me a reason why we spent 1hr30 minutes on a side plot with Steppin, why has Perrin done nothing all season, why are these prophecies (not prophecies?) distrusted but Siuan's dream isn't. Spoiler, I got nothing of the sort and the finale sucked and I felt like my time spent convincing others that these choices were for some bigger beautiful reason had been wasted and I was just flat out wrong. It's only now that I can start to clearly frame why this hit me so hard. And, I'm sure this is true for many others. I LOVE these books. I read them over my formative years and the philosophies and underlying principles paved the way for a wider interest in Taoism, Buddhism, gender equality and generally just an awareness that whatever you think someone is thinking, is probably wrong and it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt. Not only that, I saw characters that wanted nothing more than to do good in the world but were faced with complex impossible choices that invariably meant some harm was done but the net output was positive. The same characters were deeply flawed and I watched them grow. I found archetypes to look up to in these characters, found individual traits that I aspired to mirror throughout my life. My heart rate would swell and I'd get butterflies reading Rand overcome his latest challenge, or Perrin just be himself and cut through the bullshit only to find respect and following. Similarly, we watched Egwene have one of the greatest character arcs in the books and not even have to be Ta'vern. Nyneave overcame her own shortcomings to not be annoying all the time ;). My point is, I've looked up to all of these characters for decades. I've used the books as a road map on how to strike balance in life and accept absolutes don't exist, do the best you possibly can and most of the time you'll put something into the world which will make it a better place. After watching the series I just feel betrayed. As Amy said, it's probably our one shot at this and it feels like it's been hijacked by a group of people not intent on telling the story and philosophy from the books, but instead intent on using aspects of the book to further their own ideals and hot takes on modern culture to the detriment and at the expense of others characters. The ONLY time this happened in the books was when the characters were out and out bad guys/girls or it was to offer a moment of growth for a core character. It's a sad feeling, knowing that, unless something drastic happens for season 2, I'm not going to get to see these stories and characters and complex philosophies are brought to life in a way that I feel does them justice. All of us will always have the books, and I am grateful I know have faces to put the characters as I do think the casting is excellent. But knowing what could have been and recognising my own hopeful mindset early on, I'm just left with a sense of loss and disappointment for where we are now. If you made it this far, thanks for reading!
@patricksmith8262
@patricksmith8262 2 жыл бұрын
Amy, respectfully, Rafe *has* said why he's made these changes. I've posted direct quotes from Rafe on your previous videos. He's been saying from the beginning and repeatedly reaffirmed it in various interviews and on twitter. He's injecting his personal views on politics and gender into the story. He's been saying it and hasn't been shy about. He's flat out said that he knows this will break the lore and he doesn't care. What more does the guy need to do before we just take him at his word?
@hammerofscience534
@hammerofscience534 2 жыл бұрын
Preach!
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, I have captured some of this for when I talk about themes. I'd love some links to these older interviews. They are hard to find now.
@patricksmith8262
@patricksmith8262 2 жыл бұрын
@@amys0482 I tried posting some direct links previously but YT repeatedly ate the comments. Maybe I can try to DM some to you.
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
@@patricksmith8262 I have quotes where he talks about making changes to the dragon reborn being a woman and the ripple effects that has. I don't have quotes about however he characterizes his brand of feminism and why he think it necessary that the dragon reborn could be a woman. that would be useful to reference.
@patricksmith8262
@patricksmith8262 2 жыл бұрын
@@amys0482 I don't see a way to DM you. Supposedly there should be a way via your about page, but doesn't seem to be enabled, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But, I really do enjoy your analysis. Keep up the awesome work.
@NotQuiteGuru
@NotQuiteGuru 2 жыл бұрын
Good Video. I appreciate that you prefaced your deep dive by stating what excuses you are not making for the showrunners. AND I grudgingly appreciate that held yourself going into their political motives (however obvious), because there are other channels that spend plenty of time on that topic. Your analysis stuck to the demonstrable facts. I sincerely hope a lot of the content creating community who seem to be in denial about the objectively terrible writing can watch your analysis. They would be unable to dismiss your arguments and call you a racist, misogynist, homophobe, or reduce your arguments to "you only want an impossible 1:1 adaptation", and would be forced to grapple with your valid arguments as they are. Your analysis, is spot on, and undeniable. The show made me feel like it was I was stuck in a seminar that was telling me about how terrible men are. My favorite characters in the entire series are Perrin and Nynaeve. This show broke my heart with its treatment of Perrin, he was such a good but conflicted man, and his assertive yet considerate and contemplative method of dealing with his problems are so healthy for young men to see and try to apply to their lives. I liked the way they started to show Nynaeve's character, but slowly killed her too. The terrible writing was an insult to my intelligence, and to Robert Jordan. The political agenda was an insult to my soul, but it's getting harder and harder to avoid this in today's day and age. I'd be prepared to accept this if it was subtle and they presented a solid story otherwise. But the rest of the world they built was so poorly done and they didn't even TRY to hide their agenda. I am very sad. Especially since as you said, this may also be the LAST attempt at an adaptation. Right now, I'm hoping that they'll give the rights to an animation studio that can do the story justice and don't need so large of a budget to do it with.
@mondkalb9813
@mondkalb9813 2 жыл бұрын
Very good analysis of the season! If I had not read the books I probably would be very confused about the whole show. Having read the books, I am just sad and disappointed. What a heap of junk! It is beyond me, why the writers and the showrunner think, they can rewrite major elements of the lore, change major plot lines and key elements, fluffing it all up with pointless side character plots and some sex scenes, and still expect the whole jumble to make any sense. Why do they think that they could be better writers than the author of a million-selling book series? If you change critical aspects of a story, you need to think of the consequences on character motivations and such. But they didn't. That being said, for all the money they put in it, the end product does look surprisingly cheap sometimes, on the line with Shannara Chronicles for example. Also, I don't understand why they had to make the male characters so weak (even dumb at times) and the women all powerful. The books do a very good job at portraying strong female protagonists whithout making the men looking like idiots.
@wotfanedit
@wotfanedit 2 жыл бұрын
A small yet shameless plug for my fan edit of Season 1 into a movie: I've tried as best as possible to remove narrative contradictions and give the story some cohesion and impetus, which gives it a tighter pacing and more intentionality as a result.
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine 2 жыл бұрын
Plug away. Well done. How much along are you out of 100% ?
@wotfanedit
@wotfanedit 2 жыл бұрын
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine already at 100% but I need a huge effort to patch rough edits and story gaps where I've cut too much. It's much more time consuming to insert than to snip what's there, so I'm gonna put in a big weekend.
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine 2 жыл бұрын
@@wotfanedit I understand - you're going to have to do undo some cuts, put back the original clips and then cut again. Wow. That's a difficult one. I'm sure there will be hundreds of thousands if not over a million of fans, over the years, who will appreciate what you've done. Thank you.
@UnraveledDreams
@UnraveledDreams 2 жыл бұрын
To destroy Wheel of Time as thoroughly as he did. He must of just googled "best moments from the wheel of time books". Then just change those things. Make no mistake... This was butchered with the purpose of pissing off the fans of the books. About the men: Perrin doesn't even know he has golden eyes. Egwene and Moiraine do. Mat's family life is now terrible and hes a thief. Rand is just there. Lan Is now a cry baby. Lord Agelmar a "great captain" is now an idiot that should of listened to his sister and is also dead. Thom... Thom was awesome but he should of been there from the begining. Lews Therin is now an arrogant ass that wants to go seal the dark one. Even though outside the window behind him is still a beautiful utopia. Logaine is cool but I don't think he should of been gentled like that. Every scene with a man in it was them being told they are stupid and useless. Or the men proving that they are stupid and useless through their actions. In the books Lan's conversation with Rand in the begining about the heron marked blade is perfect. In the show the first mention of a heron marked blade comes from the forsaken in the 7th or 8th episode. And it's still unclear why its important. Nothing at all is explained. Sorry I started ranting. But this show has me so upset!
@jakBNimbull
@jakBNimbull 2 жыл бұрын
Great analysis as always, you've been always and absolutely thorough. I am learning how to be more descriptive in my writing..viewing your visual expressions inspire me immensely, thank you.
@equalmc276
@equalmc276 2 жыл бұрын
This is absolutely the BEST take I have seen yet. You don't just say a list of what's bad, you describe how the 'small' changes they made demonstrate a complete lack of care for the interdependent, interwoven intricacies these changes violate in the deeply developed history of the world and the magic.
@dackhornbold1728
@dackhornbold1728 2 жыл бұрын
To reveal the Dragon Reborn and blow the minds of non-book readers they should have added a sixth Emond's Fielder, Lews, to the group from the start. He's a friend but competitive with Rand and they often disagree, but always work together when needed. When the group splits he's with Mat and Rand. Only show Lews interacting and conversing with Rand, but do it subtly so no one realizes that only Rand can see him. Then there is that cold-open with Lews Therin in the Age of Legends and it is finally revealed to everyone that Rand is seeing Lews when he's having a conversation with himself where he's arguing with Lews that Lews is the Dragon Reborn. Everyone but Rand realizes he's the Dragon Reborn and are a little scared because he's already exhibiting some symptoms of madness. Rand is utterly confused by the revelation but doubts them because to him Lews is a real person--a friend he's known for years--he thinks the Aes Sedai are trying to drive him mad so he distrusts Moiraine more. Yes, the relationship between Rand and Lews is introduced much earlier but I think it would lend some urgency to realize that Rand must make it to the Last Battle, but he's already slowing going mad. Also it could explore with sympathy the difficulties that people who suffer from Schizophrenia and other mental disorders have.
@philnorfleet1371
@philnorfleet1371 2 жыл бұрын
That ... could have been interesting, though it seriously ramps up the madness and, honestly, these writers are not capable of such an interesting twist...
@rudolphclause4687
@rudolphclause4687 2 жыл бұрын
hmm that would have been very interesting... sigh.. I don't know if I feel good reading interesting and exciting "what if" ideas in youtube comments. that are far superior to what professional writers of a 10 million dollar an episode show wrote.
@armaogeddon
@armaogeddon 2 жыл бұрын
I probably would've hated that too, but my god is that better story telling than what we got, so bravo.
@carolinejthibeaux1172
@carolinejthibeaux1172 2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant review. Spot on. In the books Moirraine is much smarter knowing who the Chosen are and not mistaking Ishamael as the dark one. Also so much for her growing up playing the game of house. None of that shows in the show. Might have been helpful if Rafe had actually read the books 😄
@dicksosa
@dicksosa 2 жыл бұрын
Love your analysis and explanation of all the problems and issues with the writing. One minor suggestion for your KZfaq is that your sound quality was much better when you were closer to the mic. If you aren't able to be closer or get a mic stand or something, you could always do a post processing of the sound/voice.
@stephenmaloney7419
@stephenmaloney7419 Жыл бұрын
There's a lot of takes on KZfaq and yours is by far the best. Love the content
@Brodo500
@Brodo500 2 жыл бұрын
Disappointing in a word. Even more because there's these small glimmers of something that could be great. I also wonder manufactured outrage is part of the plan to push "engagement"
@paulcook5893
@paulcook5893 2 жыл бұрын
You are so spot on with all your reviews !Brilliant i have enjoyed them ! they calmed me down ! I, myself saw the trailer for the show and thought , wow I got to read the books ! Im 50 and dont know how I have never read the series !? So I read up to book 5 by the time the tv show started,(half way through book 12 now ) loving them so much. I was so annoyed on behalf of the fans of the books ! Butchered!! is the perfect description of what they have done ! Feels to me that they read the Wikipedia took the names of characters and places and just re- wrote the first book to put in their woke agenda ! Its so so obvious ! What an absolute disgrace and total middle finger to Robert Jordan R.I.P. I continued to watch all 8 episodes and I went from fuming to laughing my head off to see how ridiculous this was ! I feel so sorry for the actors ! Though the actor playing Perrin is a terrible casting he can't act at all ! *(After watching Obey , I retract what I say about Marcus's acting , he is very good )* I won't be watching S 2 ! stay amazing ! I adore you !
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
I haven't seen Marcus in other movies but he actually does have a few credits to his name so I would suggest watching those before making this claim.
@paulcook5893
@paulcook5893 2 жыл бұрын
@@amys0482 I just thought after reading through and seeing how Perrin grew as a character in the books I just can't see Marcus having the acting chops to pull it off ! I will check out his other rolls though it might change my mind ! 😊👍
@paulcook5893
@paulcook5893 2 жыл бұрын
@@amys0482 hi Amy I went away and watched a bit of Obey , and Marcus is really really good in it 👍,what a difference!!!! so I can only guess it was down to the terrible writing and directing ! so I take back what I said !
@daneg
@daneg 2 жыл бұрын
this was a good listen. very articulate/easy to follow breakdown. I've seen a few of these criticism vids, and yours seems more to the point to me.
@FoxCastleChild
@FoxCastleChild 2 жыл бұрын
Great review and full summary. One point of issue is your description of the prophecy being that The Dragon saved the world and the Dragon Reborn would break it. The Dragon (Lew Therin) actually saved AND broke the world. By sealing the Dark One he also allowed the Dark One to counter-attack and taint Saidin- which caused all channeling men in the world to go crazy and destroy everything. The Dragon Reborn is so feared because they don't know what he will do. He may save the world, break it, or do both like his past life.
@warspaniel
@warspaniel 2 жыл бұрын
I started reading the series back in the early 2000s. I remember being disappointed that the series wasn't complete, and even more disappointed when I found out Jordan died and wouldn't be able to complete the work himself (though I think Sanderson did a credible job of bringing it to completion). I'd heard a lot of complaints about the show being "woke garbage" before the first episode was even aired, but I tried to go into it without being pre-biased against it. Personally, I think at least SOME of that criticism has been overblown; however, I've been VERY disappointed in this adaptation...not so much because it's "woke garbage", but because it's just...bad. I think your giving Season 1 a 6/10 rating is being EXTREMELY generous. I'd give it a 4 at best, though we agree on many of the reasons for the low rating. Rafe may claim to have loved the books, but it's not evident in what he has produced so far.
@amys0482
@amys0482 2 жыл бұрын
Everyone's going to have a bit of a different metric system for ratings. I would give the show a 6/10 because I like elements of it... most of the costumes, the music, the locations, the actors, and even with all the problems with the writing, it manages to be kind of entertaining. I would give a 4/10 to something like The Eternals which was difficult to just even get through.
@nyetzdyec3391
@nyetzdyec3391 2 жыл бұрын
"Woke garbage" is just a descriptive term that describes something (like a show) with certain distinct characteristics. Among those characteristics, in terms of TV shows/movies, etc... 1) All or most men are "bad" in some way... stupid, incompetent, useless, outright evil, etc. 2) Women tend to be Mary Sues... 3) Blatant diversity... including sexual preference and/or identity, and often including interracial romances. 4) It leaves many viewers with the impression of some kind of intended social or political agenda. 5)... bad writing... POSSIBLY due to trying to "fill so many check-boxes". Okay... so it was NOT fair to be calling the show "woke garbage" before the first episode aired... unless that person had some kind of insider's knowledge. It was arguably a "fair" PREDICTION based on knowledge that the show-runner had TOLD people that he was going to inject his feminist agenda into it... AND on recent trends.
@roberthoeffer7419
@roberthoeffer7419 2 жыл бұрын
An excellent commentary. IMHO as with much of the current trend in writing I think it is a multifaceted issue, in part stemming from a reliance on visual spectacle to replace solid character development and world building as well as the desire be inclusive or gender neutral/equal, the later which I firmly believe is a good thing. However I believe that some writers/directors/show runners miss the mark (WoT show included), and in so doing, may be furthering misogynistic tendencies even if unintentionally doing so. The underlying issue is that at the core they are attempting to placate the female audience with portrayals of gender superiority, both by showing female exceptionalism and/or making the majority of male characters dumb/subevent/worthless which makes events and the actions of the female characters feel cheap and unearned especially when the genders are on opposing side of plot's conflict(s). To anyone who applies critical thinking to the story (such as yourself) it halts any suspense, tension, or nuance. Furthermore while I can only imagine this, it might be insulting as it feels like a pity (from the writers) rather than a genuine portrayal of a deep interesting story filled with well rounded female characters who all members of the audience, regardless of gender, can root for or loathe.
@nyetzdyec3391
@nyetzdyec3391 2 жыл бұрын
"in so doing, may be furthering misogynistic tendencies..." Yes. Exactly. You do NOT make friends among men by portraying them as being useless, incompetent, stupid, etc. ("You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.") If you run around calling everyone of a certain group "useless", or portraying the vast majority of them that way in your media, then some of them ARE going to hate you. The MORE you do it, then MORE of them will come to hate you. PATTERN RECOGNITION is a basic and intrinsic part of intelligence. Even ANIMALS have some ability to recognize patterns. Cheetahs kill lion cubs, so lions kill cheetahs, so cheetahs kill lion cubs because lion cubs grow up to become cheetah-killing lions. Mouse nibbles on something, gets sick, learns not to nibble on that thing again. PATTERN of BEHAVIOR and reward or punishment (also a specific form of "cause and effect") is how you train any animal that's capable of being trained. Dog poops in house, gets punished (somehow) and learns not to poop in house anymore. More to the point... Man watches self-described "feminist" show... sees all (most, etc) men portrayed in negative ways... and SOME of those men will be (rightly) insulted... and some of THOSE men will be ANGERED... and SOME of THOSE will ACT on that anger in various ways. Worse, when you have a PATTERN of "feminist" shows which do these things, people naturally RECOGNIZE the pattern and equate "feminism = misandry".
@rudolphclause4687
@rudolphclause4687 2 жыл бұрын
Yes yes yes. Thank you for eloquently breaking down what went wrong with this season.
@RaymondJonesnz
@RaymondJonesnz 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely 100% agree. I was /am so irate that I wanted to do what you have just done. The question to ask is why did Amazon want to do this. Having got Lotr what other successful fantasy series could they, should they own. Obvious right, a highly successful series worldwide sales of upwards of 90 million. There must have been something to like about the world Jordan built and Sanderson a successful and accomplished author, wrote within. So basically it's should be given don't change what works. However, it is a different medium, and Amazon/Sony are not brave enough to make a time commitment to present the overall story as it deserves. But eight episodes of the first book sounds doable. Some scenes can be cut without drastically harming the story allowing the narrative to still flow with themes, plot, and central events retained. Judkins has been at this problem since about 2018 plenty of time to make a decent job of it one would think, particularly for one who "loves" the books. I would assume a given axiom would be "If it ain't broke don't fix it". So we have a worldwide best-seller but needs cuts. But why oh why make changes to the central characters. Who they are works in the books and to a large extent drives the plot. [ We intend the series to follow the plot don't we?] Perrin, married. Kills his wife [cheap shot that]. Now set up as a potentially schizoid homicidal maniac rather than the peaceful, humble, thoughtful big but cuddly individual who wants to act morally, recognizing violence is never the best solution, but for him, as he progresses, becomes inevitable and to be resisted where possible. That's a really appealing character I warmed to. Oh and also the wife-killer has the hots for Egwene. Having set all this up, thankfully his character is not further developed in season one other than..... argggggggg his relationship with wolves which cannot be explained because they have cut Elayas. What role Perrin has as a wolf brother, what role do wolves have, will we have Hopper will Perrin's future involve the wolf dream? I am fearful that I know the answer. I won't go on about other character changes here but I don't think there's one whose backstory or character isn't corrupted. Judkins justification appears to be that the TV audience wouldn't relate to the Book Perrin yet a big portion of the TV audience will be the book readers and I have more faith in the audience who would tune in, to grow with Perrin if he is written as he is in the books. This appears to be his argument for all the other character changes he makes in season one which I won't list here. Change the characters and one is going to have to start changing the plot and as one changes the plot the characters are changed by the change in events. That's a huge juggling act for the writers and may I suggest why as season one closed much was not making sense. Judkins is clearly making his version of the world of the Wheel of time [ maybe under orders from Amazon]. How long Brian Sanderson will allow his name associated as adviser I predict will not belong. What's sold is sold, so silence from Robert Jordon's Estate is to be expected. Amazon has greenlit season 2 of both WOT and LoTR. Big money commitments that need big returns. WOT's future may depend on how LoTR does and as its newness wears off and it deviates further from the books [ which newcomers to the TV series are buying it appears], a negative audience will grow or become one who is indifferent and take their streaming subscription service elsewhere [Disney anyone?] Again excellent analysis well done You are right. The streamed version is full of holes looks good but is unfulfilling.
@DanielBurkeMakesGames
@DanielBurkeMakesGames 2 жыл бұрын
Good point about breaking the magic system. They are intentionally downplaying this binary for (I think) somewhat understandable reasons. But combined with the dragon being male or female, it really breaks the basic lore of the world. The dragon is going to "break the world", and this is tied to being a male channeler who is fated to go mad. If the dragon can be male or female, then they have a problem. The dragon (if female) wouldn't go mad. Ergo, they wouldn't really break the world, right? So instead we get: "might defeat the dark one, or join him), which sounds like some kind of star wars force mythology stuff. It's very different. I really wanted to like this series. I was concerned about a few things, but still positive at the end of ep 4. Gradually though it became clear to me that the writers did not have a coherent grip on the material, or knew what was important to focus on. Too many plot holes. Too much skipping around. Strange choices about what to focus on when really important details were left out, and core characters left undeveloped. It feels to me that we have very green writers, and the show runner has messed up big time by not deferring to Sanderson much more. I have no hopes left for the rest of the show TBO, and I don't care if it is canceled. Maybe one day we could get an animated version of the story once 3D costs drop further? Oh well...
@Creslin321
@Creslin321 2 жыл бұрын
Great video. You hit the nail on the head about the changes to the core systems of the world to better suit some political ideal to be a massive problem. Another thing I would point out is that this show seems to try to be more feminist by pushing its male characters down, as opposed to lifting its female characters up. It does this to the point of misandry basically.
@gadflyfiction
@gadflyfiction 2 жыл бұрын
heya, working my way through the video now and just got to the point where you talk about how the show does a good job at showing the decline of a man who wields the power as opposed to the book having it all be by word and rumour etc. Though I agree it is important to show that decline I disagree that the book doesn't do that. The book opens with the prologue showing just exactly how far and how bad the madness can take a man. That prologue then colours everything that follows it regarding men and the power. Continuing to watch now.
@magnusarsland6887
@magnusarsland6887 2 жыл бұрын
In my headcannon some dood pissed the creator off so much that he was sealed forever away and then the world moved on. Some ages later some woman bored into the prison the creator made for him and that is where our story begins. Unless you are unfortunate enough to live when rafe still lives
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine
@RussiasSufferingInUkraine 2 жыл бұрын
"The Shadow shall arise across the world, and darken every land, Even to the smallest corner, and there shall be neither Light nor safety. And he who shall be born of the Dawn, born of the Maiden, according to Prophecy, He shall stretch forth his hands to catch the Shadow, And the world shall scream in the pain of salvation. All Glory be to the Creator, and to the Light, and to he who shall be born again. May the Light save us from him." - From Commentaries of the Karaethon Cycle Sereine dar Shamelle Motara Counsel-Sister to Comaelle, High Queen of Jaramide (circa 325 AB, the Third Age)
@moma-b
@moma-b 2 жыл бұрын
Your channel is the best I have found so far. Very well done. Please keep up, can't wait to see your next. 👏 I agree with those who say the show is deliberately ruining the agency of male characters of the books for the reason to convey propaganda. I did not want to accept it until I watched the whole season, but by that time it was very clear. This show is made to entertain the "general audience". Those who does not require quality in writing if there's spectacle. (Very similar strategy brought down the Disney Star Wars trilogy.) Some people like to sit down and just watch pretty faces of characters and "magic" and "fantasy" and they do not really care to pay attention to plot details. They will like the show because there are lesbians in it. And females are strong. And lots of PoC characters. For them it doesn't matter that warriors charging the back of their own fort with only 20 horses, or that the first line of defense have no heavy war machinery, but WOMEN are handling those back in the city. They just see "cool armor", "cool charging". Sadly it seems the film industry sees more money in this GA so they don't even plan to make quality, because they get enough money with producing mediocre products. Then why put more effort into it? It's all about money. 😕
@redbeard365
@redbeard365 2 жыл бұрын
Such a great video. Thank you for taking the time to do this! The show could have been so much better!
@shahyadesfandiary7234
@shahyadesfandiary7234 2 жыл бұрын
I agree with this rant but at the end of the day, the show is a complete retelling which is very loosely based on the books and unfortunately some of the choices make me think that the show will veer even farther away than it is already. It also means I really did not know where the story will go even though I have read the series a few times. I was hoping for Dumai Wells in later seasons but now I question whether it can happen in this ‘new turning’. I will see season 2 but I may drop it if the trend so far continues.
@alexanderericson8628
@alexanderericson8628 2 жыл бұрын
The only thing that can course correct the show at this point are the forsaken. They could for instance make it so that everything Moiraine thought about the prophecy is wrong, and introduce the true prophecy from the books. In one episode she implies that she isn´t really sure if what is written is the truth. But than we have the awful scene with Lews Therin that implies that men...spawn darkness or some rubbish like that. I just know that this is the part were Robert Jordan would jump ship and I just try not to think about what the implications are for the show going forward
@brindledragon2398
@brindledragon2398 2 жыл бұрын
Too bad you’re not one of the writers. Very good analysis. Thank you.
@zaccthegreat
@zaccthegreat 10 ай бұрын
Great review! I've never watched or read 'The Wheel of Time' series, but I remember the books from my childhood when I was reading Orson Scott Card's works.
@xyr3s
@xyr3s 2 жыл бұрын
here's to hoping your next video comes within the week : p ps: my thoughts are that i wish we could have gotten a full season of the series that the winter dragon was the pilot to so i could compare which would have been better :)
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