little does everyone know how predatory mogul money is, taking 100% of ludwig's brand deals..

One thing that actually should be mentioned in all of this, is that the mob individuals have been actual friends of nadeshot for a very very long time, they've been his moderators of his twitch chat since the black ops 2 days. He believed in them as a content group and wanted to give them a chance to make it work, at one point nadeshot says he had to go up to bat for them to get them signed to 100t probably to the rest of the ownership group. I think more than anyone nadeshot is disappointed in the individuals for how little work they did especially being his friends of so long.

I’m represented by an agency and have a very different experience from you, I feel like a vast majority of the opportunities I’ve gotten have come from the relationships my agency has with brands. Brands also can centralize entire campaigns through the agency. The agency helps broker the deals and manages deliverables. Brands don’t want to work with 20 different individual KZfaqrs through 20 separate channels of communication, but rather centralizing it all in one big bundle through an agency is easier. I actually just played in an Uno tournament hosted by you Lud, and I probably wouldn’t have been invited if my agency wasn’t hosting and brokering it. Just my two cents

IDK why Froste was complaining about "knowing if they'll have their next meal" when their rooms were filled with doordash orders. They were irresponsible and obviously weren't ready or just didn't take the job seriously. I'm on Nades side

Froste just comes across as a spoiled kid who is upset it all wasn’t handed to him. The majority of people would kill for the chance he got

These mogal mails are exactly what the community needs to stay informed on these matters. Ludwig, thank you so much for creating a community with the ability to analyze an arguement and see both sides. You manage to present information in such a great way where you are doing it to inform, not to force your audience to feel one way. Thanks for the video dude, always brightens up my day. :)

Both things needs to go away: this terrible "industry standard" 85/15 contracts as well as lazy bums like Froste who are only willing to put in 40 hours A MONTH and expects everything served to them on a silver platter. - They were 22 year olds, that's college-graduate age, not "little kids". - Despite that shitty contract, 100T still ends up letting them keep 65% on top of paying them $60K a year salary. 100T should have just put that in the contract in the first place. - They chose the $10K house themselves, when there are much cheaper alternatives in the area. - They chose the internet service package for their house, with the speed they wanted. - They chose to waste so much money by doordashing every meal instead of prepping their food. When he said they "didn't know where their next mean is coming from", it actually means they haven't decide where to order their next meal yet. - Froste chose to put in WAY less streaming hours than most 9-5 part-time jobs. This is inexcusable for any upstart streamer. - Froste chose to not making any KZfaq videos at all. This is inexcusable for any so-called "content creator". - Froste chose not to take any personal responsibility, learn from his mistakes, nor become a more responsible person. PS: Good to see Classify's effort is acknowledged by everyone involved though, including Nadeshot, it's a vast contrast to Froste's pathetic sense of entitlement. It is not a coincident that Class is now working for MrBeast after leaving 100T, while Froste is still an absolute nobody. Shares of Responsibility for this fiasco base on the actual proof presented: 15% on 100T, 85% on Froste.

I totally disagree with 100T taking 85% of the sponsorship deal revenue or at least having that number in the contract. That’s ridiculous but HecZ, Owner of OpTic, did however give a good view on why that number was probably so high and that’s because they were really small creators that Nadeshot convinced 100T to take a chance on and since they weren’t going to take any of their twitch or KZfaq revenue and still pay them a salary. They needed to recoup their investment somehow and that was through the sponsorship money. I still think that number is ridiculous but from that perspective it makes more sense why it was much higher than it likely was for courage or Valk

The amount of people acting like 100T were supposed to be these guys parents is astounding. They were adults employed by a company. If I spend my salary like an idiot my boss doesn’t sit me down to teach me how to be financially responsible.

Well something of note is that the Mob dealt with like 10 ppl for editing or something apparently and didn't pay them. Also one of said editors worked as their manager for free and made a google doc of a bunch of video ideas (cuz they didn't do f all for yt to which Frosty said well we didn't have viewers wasn't worth it) that only one of the Mob (Classify) ever even opened it which was the person who also streamed the most and actually tried at least in comparison to everyone else. Source: My recollection of what NotAirid (who was the free manager and an editor) said in Atrioc's chat and also his twitter

They are getting a base salary of 60k. Please tell me where a 20 year old with a HS diploma can get an entry level job anywhere at 60k with incentives and bonues. Also the percentage taken isn't as valuable as the 100T name on your stream and backing you. The networking and colabs that you get from joining 100T are way more valuable then any percentage they could take.

For this particular situation I don't have an issue with the 85%. They were such small streamers when they joined that I see the $60k salaries as basically an advance and they would recoup their losses on the sponsorships. After a couple years, if the mob panned out, they could renegotiate the terms. Now if Fuslie, Tina, and Nicewigg are only keeping 15% then there are issues.

If you're getting paid 60k a year, I'd expect some cuts to be taken from your sponsorship deals. The real deal is this - you're not fighting for sponsorships, because you have a reliable backing from your Org, you're given a cushion & a soft cap. Do you make every penny from a sponsorship? No. Do you have reliable income & the ad revenue from your videos and content? Yes. Imagine having reliable income, being served sponsorships, and a huge change to grow your Personal & Group brand - but complaining after you hardly put out content. Was it an oversight to let the kids have free reign? Yes, they should've had a more affordable living situation (although Froste said 100T required being close to the compound) and they should've been cooking some meals instead of doordash 24/7. Do a cooking stream for christ sake, even if it's scuffed you can laugh it off and save some cash

this + the podcast you did the earlier today on twitter were really insightful for creators trying to grow

Taking ONLY a majority of profit from brand deals is wild. Considering 100T also does the negotiation for these brand deals. I'm on nadeshot's side since this is their only ROI. Money they get from stream, from yt revenue also goes straight into their pockets. All they had to do was make videos or stream more. That $2500 may be low but imagine using the 100T brand AND getting paid for it?

I actually really disagree with Lud here. When it comes to the home that is on the Mob. Maybe I am weird, but when I got my first full-time paying job, I had to move out to a city, and my employer didn't house hunt with me. 100T had no obligation to help them, but they did because they wanted them to succeed. The original idea also sounds like the 60k a year was not supposed to be their main form of income. It was supposed to be streaming and youtube, which didn't get any cut. If they would have even had the same level of success with viewers and just did it constantly, they would have had the money. When it comes to 85%, I think that is the only way 100T can make their money back. I think taking a change of a few 100 viewer Andys and paying a quarter of a million a year they just had to have a way to make the money back. At the end of the day, these were year-long deals that would have been renegotiated at the end of the year. 100T bet was that this group would be successful and then they would make enough money from brand deals that it would make up for the 60k plus whatever else they spent money on whoever helped them make the little content they made. Overall, orgs and agencies make sense for some creators but not all. Some streamers just lack all adult functioning skills, XQC, for example, needs someone to focus on the business end of his stream. They just want to focus on streaming and have an agency bring the deals to them and deal with it if they do something like forget to do a shout-out. You also can get a different tier of brands for sponsorships. 100T, for example, has recently done brand deals with Tiffany and Gucci. That is not something that 1 creator would easily be able to get (plus easy collabs and brand-growing stuff). From my understanding (which is limited), Slime is pretty much Ludwig's agency/esports team. That is why I think Lud isn't able to see the value that an esports team might have because he has had someone that has helped him with that from day 1.

In my opinion comparing 100T to a management agency is a very poor comparison. What management agency could promote and blow up a creator like an org? That alone should give them more value in negotiations. Not 85% value but above “industry standards” for sure.

"Send it to a lawyer" The best piece of advice. Period

Your average person isn’t coddled through a career. It doesn’t take mentoring to know you can’t get the top results with the least effort. You have to be responsible for your choices, and that’s that. And through their previous success, they knew that. Just thought they could coast on through now that they had 100T in their twitter bio.

I typically agree with Ludwig's opinion, logically speaking, he's generally balanced and has a good take. I think in this particular instance he's incorrect. The (up to) 85% was apart of a salary agreement of $2500 a month per person. If there was no Salary from the 'team' and it was all based on brand deals, then yes this is outrageous. But for the viewership and potential earnings that these streamers had, the 'team' had to make $30k per person aka $150k per year in PROFITS just to break even on salary (30x 4 plus the extra 30 for content costs) before even considering marketing, editing and other resources that the 'team' brought to the picture. I wholeheartedly agree that these eSports teams are all shit and predatory, I would never want any streamers I support to join one and if I were ever good enough to be in one, wouldn't want to join one myself, but given the facts of this 'case' I don't think that 100T overstepped with the 85% agreement. If the creators in question become very big, then they could/should negotiate that back down to 20% and drop the salary aspect or go their seperate ways, but the situation as laid out by 'nadeshot' is, in my opinion, reasonable.

I understand that an 85% cut is horrible, however they essentially made roughly $75k+ each while working 8 hours a week and not making content for YT. I think 100T is one of the least predatory orgs out there right now. FaZe, C9, etc, have reputations for these kinds of things, and way worse.

You know it’s a good day when a mogul mail gets posted!

My gut feeling says the 85% retainer is so if these streamers got sold off to KZfaq or some massive deal goes through they'd end up exercising that option. Though, I see wrong doing on both side easily

I was so beyond frustrated with how ungrateful and pathetic Froste was through this. How someone could have the opportunity of a lifetime given to them and then not put in at least minimal work is just…unreal. I’m a failed streamer, and there’s no shame in failing especially when an honest effort is given. Sometimes things just don’t work out and that’s okay. But for Froste to complain through this when the dude streamed a total of 955 hours from June 14th, 2019 to May, 29th 2021 - there’s no excuses. You don’t need to be spending 500 dollars to upload a KZfaq video either. During that timeframe, I streamed 4,328 hours. Again, failure is nothing to be ashamed of because people fail all of the time. But this was a slap in the face to all small creators that would do anything for an opportunity of that caliber. I have loved 100 Thieves for years, and if that was me that was signed I would guarantee you there wouldn’t be a discussion of effort given during the time there. He can complain about the contract things all he wants - the reality is that 100 Thieves had all the leverage. Honestly, Nadeshot was extremely generous in the contract given these weren’t guys that were averaging thousands of viewers or 6 digit views on KZfaq videos. But regardless of all of that, he signed it. AND then re-signed later on. Send the contract to a lawyer, or just literally anyone else to have a separate set of eyes look over things to make sure you fully understand what’s going on. I don’t have sympathy for someone who was my age, 21 years old, for signing something stupid. He can claim he was young and dumb and Nadeshot took advantage of him, but I’m sorry to break it to him - that might just be his issue.

while content creators are people too and absolutely deserve to be treated as such, point blank the mob was just lazy. you cannot work as a content creator on a fixed salary for a huge org, make piss poor living arrangements, only to not put in nearly enough work. i think they had high expectations and a skewed vision of what content creation is like, just as most people do. most people think content creation doesnt take nearly as much effort as it actually does, and thats no fault of 100T. every content creator tells people how hard it is, how much work they put in, there are hundreds of free resources online that refute this. honestly, i barely blame 100T at all for what ended up happening, most of the guys just simply didnt have the mindset or work ethic for it.

I don't agree with lud's take, don't think 100t should be babysitting a bunch of adults that live in a house together. Matt gave The Mob an opportunity to become bigger and to grow under the 100T name, that doesn't mean Matt has to take care of everything that they do including housing and what to eat or what videos to film, imo that's up to the content creators themselves. Matt simply is just their boss and their friend but that doesn't mean he has to babysit a bunch of immature 20 year olds. Also what pisses me off is the amount of entitlement that comes from Froste is what really imo people are noticing about his reaction to Nade's video and his tweets.

While I'm usually in agreement to most Mogul Mails and have been watching for a while, I'm not sure I agree with a lot of the points here. While an agency usually takes a much smaller percentage of sponsorship deals like the ones given to the Mob, I'm pretty sure those agencies aren't also paying $60k salaries to their clients. I think given the circumstances of each side, 100T being a business and the members of the Mob trying to grow an audience, each side had their respective benefits in signing a contract that afforded 100T a portion of sponsorship deals, maybe a larger portion than just a management agency. I also have to completely disagree with the idea that 100T should help facilitate the lives of the creators. As the creators make the deals to sign a contract like that, 100T *should* do the due diligence to guide them in terms of content and marketing and other spheres relevant to the deal but to ask 100T to literally babysit their creators in personal finance and wellbeing is completely ludicrous. 100T is a business at the end of a day, while they predicate themselves on a feeling of family, they cannot be expected to act as parents when signing a business agreement. Regardless, I'm glad you brought this topic up and I hope that more conversations stem from this situation regarding ethicalities of content creation and esports organizations because I'm hoping to enter the industry myself.

I usually agree with Ludwig’s thoughts, but his take on the 85% cut was biased on the side of the streamer. It was the org who found the deal and gone through the negotiations, and who knows how long that took and what resources it took. I’m assuming they had to pay legal fees as well for lawyers to go over the contracts. They need a bigger cut to pay off other people as well aside from the content creator and also make money for themselves. And they didn’t even take 85% sometimes and have given more to the content creator. So I guess it is based on what the deal was that they got. Just my personal opinion.

Yeah, uber eats and doordashing basically all your meals is EXPENSIVE. I'm talking about minimum $25/day per person (without counting tips), $175/week, $758/month, $9100/year. It's about the choices they made that led to no money.

man I am such a youtube frog by saying this, but mogul mail is (in my opinion) peak Ludwig. I havent enjoyed something this much in some time, maybe it is the fact that (unlike some streams where he can get off topic or w.e) he is 100% real and he is speaking from his heart with no intention of turning or twisiting stories and just speaking what he is thinking. Absolutely love it!

The reason ludwig remembers working for 15 an hour but also 12.50 is because he would steal so many TV's he could make an extra 2.50 an hour. He's been on the grind so long, wow.

The 85% aslo paid for the production team to come over and film it... the editing team to edit it... on top of getting the actual brand deals only because they were in 100T. I admit 85% seems very bad... but all they had to do was show up, read their lines and joke around with each other. Everything was taken care of.

I think that benefit of joining an org is so you initially can use their supports and other creators to grow yourself. That is why I believe the salary is as low as it is and that the deals are so wildly lopsided. Keep in mind these guys are getting maybe a few hundred viewers at the time too so its kind of a long shot for 100T to sign these guys in the first place. I think that the take of 100T is predatory is wild however, the sponsor deals part of it yes is somewhat fucked but the idea behind those is that your money is coming from how hard you work (aka how often you stream do collabs etc) because again I believe when you're first joining an org traditionally as a smaller creator you're not using them as a means for money out of the gate but as a way to gain a platform so that you can grow and support yourself. If you zoom out on this whole situation how can you justify as an org paying guys 60k a year to guys that barely get to 40hrs a month of streaming and are only getting a hundred or so viewers?? Nade said this in his video that he fought to keep them around because of that very reason, no other execs at the org saw their value. I think 100T took a shot on the mob, the mob (mainly froste the others worked quite hard) didn't use the opportunity and saw it as a free ride and are now sad that their ride is over.

frostie is delusional man, if he just streamed 6 hours a day, 5 days a week. with the access to sponsorships, brand deals and collaborations. the mob got to pick their housing that mess was on them. the mob editor come out with a massive list of video ideas? guy showed SO MANY video ideas that they had come up with, most of them free (to counter the point of 100t denying money from content budget so they couldn't make any videos), and the ONLY person who had ever opened the google doc was classify.

I have to disagree with the housing responsibilities. I was offered a promotion across the country and my employer helped with the move but it was not their responsibility to tell me what I should pay in housing all I was informed was the distance from work I had to leave from. Additionally you cannot use someone’s age as an excuse on why they needed help. They should of had their agents or even parents look into the contracts before jumping into a plane and coming to LA. everyone is saying 100T is a predator for taking 85% when they put their resources and people for theses deals. I honestly believe Frostee came in thinking he didn’t have to handle anything and 100T would provide. But that is not how life works you gotta ask question you have continue to strive and be able to lay in bed knowing you have it your all.

One thing I disagree with Lud here is his take on the house. Its not on 100T to approve or deny what house the guys live in. Sure theyre on the younger side and might not know much about the "real world". At the end of the day its on the mob guys to do their DD if their base salary from 100T goes straight to rent well maybe its not a good idea to get a $10,000 house.

That intro looking kinda goofy after he joined moist esports ngl

Myth is an amazing example of taking that luck you get and making the most of it. He blew up from a clip vs summit, he used that to change his life forever and kept on the grind.

And now, You run an esports team

I honestly find it hard to throw shade on 100T. A lot of what they did was the industry standard. Overall this is an org that really cares about its members. At the end of the day, Froste signed the deal and didn't put the work in after being in many people's dream scenario. But that's just my opinion and I hope both parties do well moving forward. I would highly recommend Devin Nash's video on the topic for more in-depth detail on the situation.

orgs aren’t weird tbh, they add value to you by adding you to content and getting you around big content creators if you’re lacking in that department. You ludwig, signing with anyone, makes 0 sense whatsoever because u started HUGE, you blew up too fast for an org to be an option because you’ll be the one adding value to them and not them to you, even tho the org content is still something people like a lot.

Just based on this video as it's all the context I have. It seems this deal wasn't as predatory as Lud makes it seem. I see way worse in other industries. - Having the option to retain 85% of brand deal revenue is a bit much, but 100T ended up not waving it twice. 100T paid salaries to these guys, gave them access to their plateform, gave them access to all the people 100T employs, and even helped them finding a house. 100T is a not a charitable non-profit association that is there to create creators free of charge. It's a company, and companies need to make money somehow. 35% might even still be on the high end of the spectrum, but looks like it's all the money they take. At no point was it mentioned that they also took a % of streaming revenue or any other profit. - I don't know in what world would the company that's hiring you have to teach you how to be reasonable and teach you how to live. They could give advice about the renting market and what to do and not do, but there isn't a world where it's their job to go "hey now this isn't a house in your budget, I'm putting my foot down, you can't rent it". If you make that stupid decision, whether you're 18 or 35, it's on you. - They would've gained from having the mob there, if these dudes did their part of the deal. 2500$ a month in LA might not be a lot, but it was intended to be in addition to their streaming revenue, in addition to their other content posted on youtube, in addition to their share of the brand deals. 100T didn't offer them an all paid vacation in LA, they offer them to come work there. These guys not fulfilling their end of the contract and complaining this wasn't enough money is all sorts of stupid on their own end. - Classify is the only member of the Mob I knew, and still know, he participated in a ton of 100T videos and put himself out there. His humour wasn't my cup of tea but that's not on him. So props to this guy for trying. Happy to see there is no (apparent) bad blood there

I don't think it's fair to call the 100 Thieves brand deals predatory unless content creators aren't allowed to make brand deals that don't come from 100 Thieves. It's kind of weird for so many people to call it predatory for no reason other than the number being big.

Hm yes mail from the mogul

It seems that esports orgs are like music publishers where they're really good for smaller creators to grow, but after they grow the company leeches off the successful ones to cover the costs of all the failures

I usually agree with you, but i think you were very soft on Froste and the others. Blaming 100T for them picking a 10k a month house? That’s ridiculous, nade specifically said they wouldn’t even consider the other options that 100T found for them. They have a responsibility, not only as creators, but as individuals to conduct themselves without hand holding for their own sake. Also you said that 100T should have offered more guidance, but have no idea how much they actually did offer. Only the two parties involved know, so speaking like they didn’t do enough doesn’t make a lot of sense. I agree with the 85% being too much, but I see it more as risk mitigation on unproven talent. We don’t know if negotiations would be on the table down the line once the numbers change. Still enjoy the content, lud bud out.

I disagree with this take, you are comparing this deal with an agency finding brand deals. This is not the same situation at ALL, 100T was paying their salary, and getting millions of eyes on them. There is no way 100T would ever make anywhere near a profit if they only took 20%. After all they are a buisness not a charity The streamers still kept all their income from youtube and streaming

I get this "taking 85% is bad" thing, but would these 3-4-500 viewer streamers get ANY brand deals worth that much without the 100T name?

"I didn't have money to make content" it's like bro just play hide and seek or something in your $10k a month house 💀

Lud, this is a bad take my guy. Keeping 15% of brand deals (That you can only attain because of the org), getting a salary, getting MASS exposure and opportunity, all while keeping your stream and KZfaq revenue is about as good of a deal can exist for a small streamer. His job is too just stream part time and he's set. Ideally, you blow up on your own, you start having brands reach out to you, and you keep everything. But that takes so much work and luck, that very few can pull it off, and ESPECIALLY not Froste. He couldn't pull it off when 100T gave him everything.. so why even sympathize? If he would have changed his behavior from this backlash then maybe, but instead he continues to bash 100T who has done great things for so many streamers and gamers. You're ending message that "Orgs are predatory" just completely misses the mark of what this situation is about.

I think this is the first time in a while where I completely disagree with lud. 100T had no obligation to help the mob find an apartment or to help them out in making financial decisions. Literally no company/employer does that. And for what little the mob individuals were working, how else would 100t recoup their investment than to make them sign those 85% deals? I know that lud acknowledges the kids were mostly at fault by the end of the video, but I genuinely don't think 100T are predatory at all in this scenario.

If I had the opportunity to join a massive esports organization like 100 Thieves, but I'd have to give up 85% of sponsorship money, I'd sign it in an instant. Just being in that circle would give you so much knowledge and you'd be brought into activities that would help grow your channel. For a small creator a deal like that doesn't seem as bad, but once they get big you then start to see the problem like with Tfue and Faze. Maybe a hot take but I think that a split like that for a TWITTER creator is decent. They were still given money for rent and food (even though they spent it extremely irresponsibly) and I personally think that a split like that is in place for instances such as the mob house where the people who they are paying good money to make content for them get extremely lazy. I usually don't side with the big corp but in some cases if you're doing lazy content like tweeting for your job a split like that isn't so bad.

Honestly frosty almost helped 100 thieves by saying 95% so when they said it was 85% people were less surprised

What you're also not taking into consideration is that they were not making any money for 100T at all, 100T had them on a salary and they were consistently losing money the whole time they had them under their name.

There is no chance whatsoever 100t at that point in their infancy could have justified signing 4 creators of that size without at least the chance to make a little bit of it back. I actually think this deal was overly fair to them... if anything depending on contract language you could argue 100t could sue members of the mob for inactivity. The contract - rent was NOT half their money. They very clearly made much more than the 60k a year or whatever it was based on twitch revenue/youtube/sponsorships/other opportunities only presented to them after joining 100t. I'm guessing they made north of 100k a year for those 2 years. You simply CANNOT give 80% of a 200k brand deal to creators of this size for many reasons. It would be like someone winning the lottery and then being asked to go back to work as a janitor. Not going to happen. As soon as they cashed a check for 40K (70% of their entire contract per year from one deal) how can you possibly ask them to put in hours for normal streams? The fact that they didn't actually stick to the 85% is a massive W for them and makes 100t look great. There is no scenario where if this worked how 100t hoped it would work, that during a renegotiation process in which the Mob grew 3x their size instead of just floundering that this percentage wouldn't have dropped massively and their numbers increased. This was an absolute flier taken by Nadeshot that was OVERLY fair to the group. The fact that so many people have made videos denying this is literally asinine to me. They simply do not have the numbers to demand a 200k deal. Literally makes no sense. Why should they get 40k each? Because it's "standard"? Hell no it isn't standard, no company in their right mind would agree to that deal. The fact that fireball even did it at all considering the Mob was the creators 100t used probably pissed them off. No way do they get the proper ROI to make that worthwhile. "Froste knew the guy from fireball..." who cares I know guys who are mega millionaires that doesn't mean at any point they're going to hire me to work for them for 500k a year with no skills in the area just because I know them. The fireball guy woulda probably thrown them a bone and given them like a 2-3k deal (still huge for them at their size) but instead they each got $30k because of the 100t connect. This is all very simple, not predatory at all (in fact I now think nadeshot is a literal saint) and I absolutely hate how little research people do into this and just insert their own "knowledge" of brand deals into it.

I understand you are looking at this from a creator point of view, but people aren't considering the business side because it's 100 Thieves and so the big corporation should be able to afford it. But look at it objectively. You said it yourself, you are paying these kids to live in a house together and hoping it works out and they get big, but they have to put in the work. That risk is baked into the 85% revenue off of deals. If he streamed 40 hours a month and is being paid 60k, 100 Thieves was essentially paying him $125 an hour. They were not making any money off of that exposure to 500 viewers, so to make it make any business sense it has to be taken from somewhere else, hence the 85%. Also what org guided you? Or nadeshot? Or Mizkif? Or Asmon? Or XQC? if you need an org to hold your hand then you aren't cut out for the business regardless of your age. At the end of the day it's a learning experience in how to negotiate, how to sign contracts, and how to make it work as an adult and that's all it is.

nadeshot gave them them an insane opportunity and they didnt do anything with it

I actually think this is my favourite youtube channel, I'm pretty excited to watch every time I see an upload. Lud memes his degree a lot but you can really see the blend of skill between journalism and entertainment in these videos.

I don't really know the full story but from what I've heard sorry I don't agree on your take here. I'd argue 100Thieves had the right to take 100% of sponsorship money until they recouped salary. Then they can talk about percentages. Also as essentially their employer there is no way 100Thieves should have to give personal financial advice like what house to rent etc. The whole story just sounds like a bunch of creators, who were given an opportunity most people would dream of, made a bunch of bad decisions and did not work anywhere near hard enough.

If you sign a deal you cannot turn around and complain about the terms. You’re an adult, act like it

I don't agree with this stance. 85% seems like a lot, but they were also paid $2500 each a month regardless + they kept their own streaming money (with a probable influx of viewers/subs/donators from having 100T backing) + the 15% from brand deals + they have access to 100T resources like other creators, editors, production people. When the only value 100T gets is the 85% from the brand deal + more streamer representation, it seems like the deal is way more suited toward The Mob than it was for 100T.

i really love that you provide enough info in these for people who had no clue about the situation to make their own decisions. love the mogul mails

i mean that house point against 100T isn't on them really. the mob chose it because they had to live in a certain distance from their compound, and when froste looked it up in his stream there was options much cheaper. taking in the housing stuff going on it was even cheaper when they were with the organization.

It's absurd to me that a 20 year old is that inept to understand what they sign and agree to if I'm honest.

There is no job out there that would hand hold to the level lud is pitching they would need frankly. Them helping find a house is wild let alone dictate the rent they could spend would be an overstep and liability. The 85% is insane but they are providing that compensation from brand deals in the form of a standard monthly pay. I assume once they recouped their salary for 100T they likely would have earned a higher percent on the deals moving forward. That’s at least my experience working at an agency. Also agents take ten percent managers may take more but even 20 is high. We had clients wanting us to take a 5% commission when we are selling their projects etc. so fully agree that 85% is predatory but this deal unlike an agent deal gave a salary monthly. For an agent you earn nothing unless your client earns they aren’t paying us and we don’t pay to keep them. Very different relationship on that front.

@ludwig the only part you didn’t take into account here is that management and agency company might take up to 30% of a deal to recoup cost to get the deal but they don’t pay a salary 100T had to pay for the staff to get the contract and the salary and give how small the views taking 35% being only 15% more than an agent but with a salary sounds more than fair

Why do people seem to overlook the up to 60K a year Paycheck when talking about 85% contracts that seem to not have been enforced?

I think something that people aren’t taking into account is that the 85% doesn’t last forever. It’s very hard to get sponsorship deals when your small and while up yes 85 percent is excessive the deals that they get aren’t the same as the deals people with millions of viewers get. Usually the bigger you get the less worth it it becomes to join an org so they start taking less and less until you just leave

awesome that you made sure to credit classy at the end there, i was in his streams all the time during the end of his time at 100T and it was really sad to see him let go despite his hard work

Honestly, the one thing I wanted to know throughout this entire drama is this. Who the hell is kittyhouseknife and has anyone been able to independently verify their claims? It's been driving me nuts cuz I think anyone can claim anything with Twitter drama.

I was pretty “in” with the cod community, I was mutual friends with classify. That guy got all of his fame from stealing tweets, and literally used to brag about it. None of those guys are actual creators/memers/whatever aside from avalanche. I can assure everyone in this comment section that this was at the hands of the mob. Think about people that take an opportunity like that to the fullest. They usually end up surpassing the organization and going independent anyway. Observe all of 100T content creation team. Probably at least 80% of their creators do not need 100T at all to be successful.

People not realizing nadeshot needs a ROI and putting up the salaries and budgets for 4 nobodies would be a total loss without the 85% deal on sponsors until their content could start paying everybody accordingly..

Froste is the avocado toast guy all boomers talk about that no one thought actually existed.

getting 15% of a brand deal you wouldn't of had in the first place is definitely better than getting 0%, especially when you get to keep 100% of your own streaming revenue... then chose not to stream. also they got so much value with signing with 100T when they get the opportunity to make content with other creators in the org like nadeshot courage brookeab and rae, an opportunity many creators wont get the chance to do.

atrioc showed us the slidedeck he made for your 100 thieves application on stream LOL, it was funny af but yeah good on you for not choosing them

I think getting the deal and talking the company into giving a good sponsor to a smaller creator is a lot more work... and I think it's on them with the 10k a month rent I'm a 21 year old and I know that was just stupid no matter how much you make.. and I know some are gonna say that frosty isn't that small of a streamer and I agree from a personal perspective 500 people is a lot but from a business perspective I would rather sponsor someone like valkyrae or courage because at least then I know I'm hitting 10k people or more for my money. But this is just my opinion keep it up lud good video as always

The way Ludwig presented this situation made it seem like Froste had 0 agency over anything which is ridiculous. Sure 100T could have helped and given advice, but ultimately it’s up to Froste to put in the work hours and be responsible with money.

He keeps harping on 100 Thieves for "allowing" them to get a $10K home. What company does someone's personal accounting and then tells them "you can't afford where you live so we won't let you live there." The individual needs to be the one to say "I can't afford this" not the org. Definitely agree that the 85% is predatory though.

He was a 100 viewer Andy. He didn't get deals because of his own image, but because he was associated with 100T. He didn't look for the deals himself, the brand got them for him. Nadeshot said when it was time to film them the production team had to clean up their house because it was a mess. Then they'd film for half an hour and get 30K each after putting in 1% of the effort. They were being rewarded over nothing.

85% is wild. Frost was also a dummy about it. But the predatory nature of these orgs should be exposed.

I'm sorry Ludwig, but from what I heard Froste and the Mob were essentially still paid roughly $60,000 a year as a salary each while essentially no work (apparently like 40 hours of streaming a month?? and almost no videos to their own channel). The Mob were also responsible for choosing their own ridiculously expensive housing. Yes e-sports teams have always had generally unfavorable deals but I find it hardly believable that 20 year old adults didn't understand the contracts they signed. 100T has some responsibility here for allowing naive children to do dumb shit but I think its mostly on the Mob cus they were still adults.

Obviously 85% is an insanely high number but I wouldn’t expect it to be as low as other management situations considering that they’re being paid a salary

I just love how everyone is saying they were 'kids' while in my country every one matures way before, enough to know what's good for them. Also after 18 everyone is considered adult atleast in my country.

A lot of you are fixated on the 85% but don’t acknowledge that they were on a salary and also kept 100% of all stream and content revenue they made. They also received extra money to make content every month and failed to do so. And at the end of the day 100T only took 35% from the 2 of the 3 brand deals they brought to the Mob. Idk maybe I’m being too hard on the Mob and the situation they were in but I would gladly sign that contract if I wanted to get my foot in the door and try to grow in such a volatile and unforgiving industry.

You got to respect Ludwig for being direct whether friend or fo. He keeps it real

Some compilation vids have taken your words out of context in this. Glad I came and watched this vid for clarification.

Never heard of it being an employers responsibility to keep track of where their employees are living, and that they are spending their money responsibly. They aren't parents.

froste acting like hes owed the world for doing little to no work

hey I've been a fan for a long time and I love your vids and am really appreciative of the videos u make on this channel i think that the way you do your own research and don't pick sides until you have made your own decision instead of just listening to the mass majority of people is a breath of fresh air and teaches your younger audience to be able to think for themselves which many people cant do anymore lol, again love the vids bro

Ludwig’s big point against 100T was how they put the mob in a 10k house and how this set them up for failure. What he didn’t mention was how on stream, Nadeshot mentioned how the mob was given a choice on where to live, and they chose the most expensive option, which was that 10k house. I wish Ludwig went into this as I think it is a very important part of info regarding this mogul mail

for sure a double edged sword i think 100T expected A - S tier content creators as a group and put to much pressure on people who arent their yet.

I love Mogul Mail as my primary news source

I really like the mogul mail channel idea in general, great content and takes!

Damn I don't really watch Ludwig before but watching a few of these Mogul Mails made me become a fan. Lud and Charlie are the most honest creators in the internet

I get what you're saying about 85% of a brand deal is predatory, but you gotta think about the kind of deals they were being given. They were receiving Mizkif level sponsorship money, while being nobodies. Its not like 100T was taking 85% of $1k, and even at the end of the day they didn't even take 85% of the money. Id understand if they were big streamers and how bad it can be, but they're taking 85% of BIG money on nobody streamers. Edit: you also say that if you went and asked your friends who are streamers if you could take 85% they'd laugh at you, but you wouldnt be going to small creators with that, and if you did you wouldn't be going to them with $200k deals, its not like they were scamming them and giving them like $150 of $1k. They don't get these HUGE deals without Nadeshot and 100T. It'd be different if they were bigger creators and the deals they were getting were smaller amounts. But thats clearly not what was happening.

I understand you being on the side of the creator, but this is just life. If they take a cut of the brand deals when they already pay them a salary I think thats fair - 85% is a bit much though. I think in the end they gave them a shot to do content full time on relatively low risk (fixed salary) and I think a lot of people would love that deal. What 100t did is just real life, its like that in every industry.

I'm a 33 year old man who has had problems with my sleep schedule my entire life. I made under 10k last year. Fucking 100% take the damn ad revenue and give me 5k a month. I'm 100% okay with that. My situation is abnormal for sure, but Lud is out of touch with how most people have to invest in their growth by getting railed hard in the beginning.

I genuinely like Mogul Mail way more than Ludwig now. It’s so informative as well as thoughtful. Good content

I actually agree with the 85% deal. Here's a big org taking risk with small creators and literally paying them monthly to live and make content AND doesn't ask for their twitch or youtube revenue. The 85% of the deal goes to 100T and makes them a bigger corporation WHICH in turn makes it so that they expand and sign MORE small creators and take more risks with potential future influencers. IF the deal is 35% or something like that, the money goes to the influencer individually and he becomes a millionaire... Idk HOW that's helpful to anyone else other than that specific influencer... I dont like this mentality of OH BIG COMPANY TAKE MONEY = BAD... Obviously they have to make a profit to keep doing what they are doing and that means individual creators will lose out on some at first...but they are also getting a lot out of it so that they can expand their brand after the deal is over.

100T needs to make something back otherwise they’re literally throwing money away. 65-85% of brand deals is fair when you’re getting paid a salary plus at least 15% of a major brand deal and that doesn’t even take into account donations and subs. Deal seems pretty fair to me