The problem with aim assist has always been that it reacts with superhuman speed. it INSTANTLY tracks the target which basically does the hardest part of aiming (tracking) for you. They need to dramatically reduce the size of the aim assist bubble so that it helps you stay on target if you're already on the target OR it needs to have a 200 ms delay to even it out with human reaction time. Thats the entire reason why you claim to have no issues with the strafe speed, because the prediction part of the strafe is being done by the cap for you at superhuman speed (0ms).

I think the solution is adding a bit more magnetism to MKB , What frustrates me the most in my BR 1v1s is no longer the salsa dancers but the fact the they can do that and hit full bursts without effort. So many times i face to face an enemy for a two burst trade and because im on MKB I hit 5 bullets instead of 6

Shyway is correct. Year ago the mnk playlist felt like a different game. Just the raw aim and getting kills was different. It would on average take more time and bursts.

Hey Shyway, M&K player here. I def agree with you on M&K's experience in Halo being different from controller players. I grinded ranked with the boys (controller players) the first few months after release. I felt competitive for most of my experience but once some of us hit onyx and played the higher elo lobbies, I felt it was extremely tough to compete in the BR 1v1s. It came to a point where I felt the need to avoid raw 1v1s unless I had the drop for first burst advantage. Or play for team shots instead. Now that the "crosshair friction" is in play I'm not sure that it makes me feel compelled to play or feel more competitive. The aim just feels so jarring for me compared to when I play other shooters such as OW or Apex. I feel comfortable and at home switching between OW and Apex. But throwing Halo into that mix, it feels like I need to shift my style drastically to accommodate not only the games inherent flow but how the aim feels using my mouse. Really tough concept for me to explain tbh. Overall I think I might just admire good players from afar and not play as much. I don't have any interest on playing any FPS with controller anymore. Anyway, great video and discussion as always.

As a PC player, I gave up on Infinite because of 2 reasons. One of them was playing ranked against controller in Onyx started to be pointless. As you said, its like playing a different game because the margin of error for KBM is way smaller. It doesn't matter that much anyway as the second reason I uninstalled Halo was the connection. I'm from Europe and there's not enough players here so 8/10 matches I played on NA servers

The issue is that controller aim assist is so high that you cant compete with mnk without some aim assist. This stems from the fact that there is no momentum in this game and and walk speeds are very fast. You can literally invalidate a mnk player by doing very small controlled strafes. controller tracks you for free when this happens with aim assist and the pc player is left trying to make instantaneous micro adjustments with precision weapons. However i think that for the longevity of this game it needs to focus on mnk, skill is far clearer a determining factor in competition, it more exciting to play, and far more exciting to watch as it becomes fast paced in a way that controller cant compete with.

Shyway!! Thank you for making a video about this! I feel like it's too late to bring MnK back into the fold but it's super important to have attention on the topic all the same. Glad Halo's made some real adjustment to allow the input to be competitive

What a compelling breakdown. Thanks for your analysis and thought as always!

One thing Destiny does to make MnK feel good compared to controller is both MnK and controller have bullet magnetism. No reticle friction but the bullets bending towards the target make all weapons on both inputs feel good. But tbh it's easy mode for both inputs compared to other games.

I definitely think people are on to something with the strafe acceleration. I have a feeling that if the strafe wasn't so strong in this game, KB&M players wouldn't have had any issues, or at least they wouldn't have been in as much of a disadvantage compared to controller players. Also, controller on this game just feels weird compared to every other Halo game, so making the AA values closer to one of the older games, and lower the strafe acceleration would probably go a long way. I can't fully speak for KB&M, since I don't use it, but AA seems to make it a bit too easy. Obviously I don't mind 343 wanting to level the playing field, but I wonder if they went a bit too far with things, and may need to dial things back for KBM players.

Amazing video shy way! I don’t know how I feel about the BR changing from its starting weapon status, but anything to legitimize the competitive scene and welcomed by the majority im down!

The funny thing is that I had almost wondered if this might have happened. I played on M&K a few weeks ago casually and was surprised that my accuracy was almost exactly on par with my controller accuracy (which I don't ever remember being the case). Fantastic video.

That ninja clip was an absolutue classic 😂

Man, shyway Is the Best ! Tnx for the hype and good vibes. I love ur content and being in a video of you, and talking good about me feels great.

Thank you for saying everything that I was thinking. Beautifully done insight thank you sir

Major props for covering a dead game with so much passion

I play more MnK than controller due to games like Apex. I tried pre patch MnK for the first year of infinite but reverted to controller until the AA patch came. I will say that I've noticed my aim with MnK lack some on other shooters due to Halo's AA mouse patch but after a few games, I get used to it again.

Been MnK for about 20 years, the overall affect that this had was good, reducing the insane BR tracking gap, but as XLR8 said, it makes us lazy and it's not the right way to go about it. Adding more bullet magnetism to have tracking more forgiving with the BR has always been my vote as an answer, your retical should not be moved or slowed, that messes muscle memory we spent decades building.

Whatever they do (AA or bullet mag), imo I'm all for it. There have been countless times where in live action I believe I landed all my shots and don't get the kill. I then look at replay and I'm hairs off the mark. Whereas, with controller (and I've seen this on the pro level) they'll get the kill every time and without a doubt the marker looked off target and still landed. So there is a clear offset just like the data showed.

Amazing video!

Your last point with the DMR is spot on IMO.

the thing about XLR8 is that he is always on BTB and also always out killing every single person in the lobby. so he is always placed with lower ranked guys. i looked up so many names in all his games and most are between Gold, Platinum and low to mid diamond. that is it. so he will always fry in those lobbies due to server pairings.

I've been playing Halo with a controller for 20 years, and just switched to MnK two weeks ago. I'm not going back. I'm much worse with MnK, but it's so much more fun for me (and I've busted the left bumper on 3 elite controllers in a year). While I enjoy the changes that they made, I am open to nerfs to the AA. But, it feels like MnK is still overall worse than controller, so I would hope that any AA nerf comes with some other kind of buff. I don't think that increasing strafe acceleration is a good idea, though. Infinite's movement feels great on controller, and the changes to strafing were a fun way to increase the game's skill gap - some of the strafes that we see in this game are nuts, and it's so entertaining to see a pro get their aim totally thrown off by a sick strafe.

I've played Halo since CE, I'm a long term fan and grinder. I switched to PC gaming a few years back after H4 released. I came into Infinite and LOVED what I was playing (on PC). Sure aiming was hard but I ground the BR aim trainers and got reasonable. Eventually though, I just couldn't take it. Once I got a decent way into Onyx it was just a joke. I would be trying my ass off, grinding to get 60% acc. games and with regularity the other players in the lobby are getting mid to high 70s and even 80s. I was just getting dumpstered in mid range BR 1v1s for free. You just have to play with a totally different style to remain competitive. A much more supportive and positional playstyle because taking space and winning even 1v1s is just not reliable. Eventually I quit the game. But having heard that MnK now has some aim assist!!!! Hoooo-ly, that might actually get me back. Seeing those acc. graphs were the nail in the coffin when I quit before. Honestly, they're disgusting to look at. If you've not seen them do yourself the favour and check them out.

I've played kbm since launch and have hit onyx in s1 (havent played ranked in 6 months because I live in OCE and cant get games), also am a 17 year halo veteran so I'm an old man and played controller back in the day but switched to PC and kbm around 2013, this is what I've found: Pre-Patch - earning kills was so unforgiving and such a slog that it didnt even feel rewarding when it happened, 1v1 BR fights were near impossible unless I did some crazy slide tech to win 2 free shots in the exchange. 50/50s meant a death every single time. Post-patch - took some getting used to in the first few weeks but when I finally started winning 50/50's I actually became motivated to get back into ranked (although I cant because I still cant find games), my average accuracy has improved but only by roughly 0.5%, I still lose every 1v1 br fight unless I focus 100%, which to me feels like the game rewarding me for putting in effort to maintain accuracy, a feeling I hadn't yet had from halo infinite except for the times I switched to controller for a laugh. *however* I personally believe ALL of the advantage I've clawed back has been purely from the incfreased friction... Think about it; the point of AA is to help guide the players reticle to a target, but kbm already had the advantage in that area (snapping to targets, switching between targets, 180's, sniper flicks etc), so why would having the game guide the reticle to a target help someone who's already snapping to targets faster than the AA will push them? The real area kbm was lacking in was in longer engagements which require tracking for extended periods of time, which is exactly where the friction begins to come into effect. All in all, I believe they could easily remove the AA and tone down the friction value a couple points, replace those points with some extra bullet magnetism, and you'd have a completely balanced aiming feel between both inputs, at that point getting kills would still be rewarding, with enough accuracy assistance to bridge the gap in casual play

Although it was universally accepted that halo infinite pre-patch mnk was bad i got use to it and now my mouse settings for other games are based on my Halo infinite settings. post-patch feels almost too good but I do find myself having to re-adjust to aiming in halo if I play a lot of Battlefield or MW. Not sure if its the aim assist or the friction added. side note: I noticed on Series X if you have your mouse polling rate at 1000 it would make the game bug out and have odd input lag out of nowhere. setting it to 500 (which I guess isn't the best) keeps the game and console from acting up and have a more consistent feel.

That Hiko shot on dust2! Remember watching that live INHUMAN REACTIONS!!!

I've been playing the shit out of Halo with MnK lately. I'm loving it.

Crazy combo with controller and mouse at the end. The meta evolves yet again

Hopefully they can continue to dial it in! I will keep playing on controller because I have always played Halo on controller (on Xbox) so it feels weird to play M&K (although I use M&K on all my other PC games lol)

Ive been a HUGE halo fan since birth basically. Played Halo since CE and watched your content on H5 way back. The only reason I considered switching to MnK was knowing that Halo Infinite would allow it. I had no idea how much I would fall in love with it. At this point (having been on both sides), I feel like I'm in a unique situation here. I disagree with a lot of your points in the video but that's totally fine. You can disagree and not harbor hatred. gg and great video

Yeah, I think the Bandit Rifle will become the new rifle in competitive at some point. I'm not a big fan of the Reach DMR casually (everyone getting a pocket sniper is annoying) but in ranked? Reach had my favorite competitive gameplay of any classic Halo because the DMR fit so well.

I've been trying out gyro control aiming with ADS through Steam. I use the 8bitDo Ultimate in Switch mode and have the gyro aiming to mimic a mouse input. Anyone else try it or have success with a similar setup? I feel like the gyro aim just needs tuning to be a viable analog to mouse.

@Shyway I've been playing mouse and controller done the tech preview, and i can confirm that it is TOPS. Even before the aim assist it felt good. Im using a wired logitech g502 and a razer wolverine ultimate for my controller. Button setup is different but same ideas ftmp. I highly recommend for anyone who wants to give it a go!

Hit the nail on the head. God tier players and mouse aimers see benefit but they'd still pop off without it. And guys like Royal2 stick with controller because there's still an advantage there. I think the real benefit is in levelling the playing field a little for more mid to lower tier players like myself lol. I used to have to work hard for 50-55% accuracy but now am getting around 50% or so standard - it's not like I'm hitting 70s I wouldn't give too much weight to xlr8 either - he's wreck on social regardless. On picking up bad habits, I only really want to play infinite anyway but I can understand that argument. Strafe inertia would fix things a lot to level the field without mnk aim assist but I feel like it's great where its at - as you say, it's a different game to everything else. Plus the mnk players have mostly dropped off anyway so it's not like it's flooded with mnk players to wreck people on social lol

Royal 2 killing himself with that nade was the best thing about this video😂😂😂

i am a MnK player and i used to play deitysam in last spartan standing a lot. he was very good before the update as well

Great video. I definitely agree a different starting weapon in ranked would be fun to switch things up. Mix up the sandbox a little bit with something that requires its own set of skill. The BR duels are fun but are getting old.

I’ve tried the mouse and controller combo too and it is fun. The other thing that works quite well is mapping the controller’s gyro to the mouse on PC.

Thanks for the balanced and well thought out video. I’ve been MnK since launch, never tried the controller for Infinite. While the aim assist has helped tremendously, I’m in agreement with XLR8 that this is not the right way. I hope we can get further tweaks before Tatanka because that’s going to draw in loads of MnK players. Thanks again for the videos. Your video on map callouts helped me become a better player.

Do you know if teams at HCS Charlotte used Mouse N Keyboard?

Bungie confirmed in a recent blog post that while M&K in Destiny 2 doesn't have aim assist, the bullet curve angle (radius from the center of the screen in which the bullet will curve to land hits on the target) is actually wider than controller, and spread on burst and automatic fire weapons is tighter. There is also significantly less vertical recoil, but that's been well known since before launch. I wouldn't kind of wonder if a change like this in place of reticle drag and/or aim assist would suit the game better for M&K balance. Instead of aim assist or stickiness, two things M&K has never needed for FPS, just increased forgiveness to precision would probably fit better. Alleviating the tracking issue a bit without affecting the mouse's control of the reticle.

I used to play Infinite with mouse and keyboard in the beginning for months. It was impossible to get headshots with the pistol, and your accuracy with the BR was just naturally really low. Moreover, your melee lacked a lunge because aim assist is more than that, it's also a lock on targeting system, in a sense, which allows you to melee lunge. Without it, you won't lunge, which gave you a huge disadvantage. I moved over to a virtual controller for my keyboard, and while it had clear disadvantages, such as me not being able to turn around except with great difficulty, so if I run into a wall I'm screwed. However, it greatly improved my k/d ratios. Aim assist for controller gave a huge huge advantage over mouse and keyboard. Halo is not designed for mouse and keyboard and the natural agility that comes with it. Mouse and keyboard is designed for fast paced games like Quake.

when the game launched I played the MnK playlist and peaked top 50 pretty fast, however once that playlist died out. I quickly found myself frustrated playing the crossplay playlist for the exact reasons you mentioned, didnt matter how good my map knowldege was, unless I had all the precision weapons at all times, I didnt really stand much of a chance in a short-mid range 1v1 with the BR. I managed to hold my own but just comparing my sub 50% accuracy to everyone in onyx having 55+ regularly it just felt pointless to try to keep climbing. I had to play a game of cat and mouse mostly looking to trade myself or find a finishing kill, avoiding 1v1s at all costs and it was just not fun. I came back to try the game again when they added that target sticking thing and it was slightly better but now I came back in full swing and I finally feel that I can compete in most gun fights, Now Im only out of my placements and not back at Onyx yet so Im not sure how I'll fare vs players that have aim down to a tee but it surely feels better however as others have said I dont think having straight up aim assist is the right call but instead just having the same bullet magnetism as controller would be a much better way of doing it. Like you said, it can negatively impact peoples aim in other games but to counter that I also find halos aiming to be vastly different compared to the likes of cod or apex legends. Its requires completely different skill sets but I dont really play competetively anymore as life gets in the way so Ive been seeing my skill decline as everyone improves anyways.

1) how do you nade with your controller/mouse set up? 2) I wish there was a device like the wii nunchuck that allowed for controller movement with mouse aim 3) as a casual m&k player who plays Halo a few times a month, I really appreciate the aim assist cuz strafe movement is insane and to be able to track shots at different ranges is difficult. I think movement would need to be nerfed before aim assist is

as an M&kb player i think its a total joke and should be removed. don't balance the game by adding aim assist to m&kb. balance it by reducing controllers aim assist a bit

onyx mnk player here re installing right now

I used to play halo all the time as a kid, few years later and I am a really good controller aimer and grandmaster on overwatch console, I returned to halo and was surprised how strong the aim assist is, especially in the old games where it's literally aimbot in halo 2 for example lol.

He is the real deal The Deity Sam

Amazing video. I recently picked up halo again and now that ranked is crossplay always i found i been lossing do many br fights now. I would be getting 4 bursted to hell while im here trying to even get a 5 burst. Maybe giving the mnk players a friction setting to toggle it on or off because me personally i didn't know there was friction i been fighting it half the time. I aalso think everyone starting with the bandit (dmr) would be better instead of the br and having to pick up the br off the wall

Bro came here thinking you were going to blindfold urself and hit some crazy shots lol and I thought MnK wasn’t allowed in pro league

Interesting on the movement part! Never have played on mk

I believe this chart that shows the difference in accuracy between controller vs mnk, can be used as a metric to see how balanced the game is. So if both inputs are balanced the data would show similar stats of accuracy for both groups of players imo. Like shyway said, it is a tricky balancing act, and there are many paths to get there: adding strafe inertia, buffing mnk even more, nerfing AA just a centesimal, improving performance to reduce input lag, adding headshot multiplier, making the dmr a starting weapon... one of those or a little bit of everything, i dont know, but i hope 343 are willing to make some changes to achieve the balance, because still today no game has made significant progress in balancing this eternal mnk vs controller debate.

I personally think the industry is catering too hard to pros. But your opinions are normally nice enough for casuals that I give you a watch. I play K&M and my biggest issue with K&M is the BR. I feel like at cross map I get headshot blasted by people, but I can never hit them. I can't even tell how I'm missing them, cause my reticle is on them, but at that range my reticle is nearly the size of them. The other guns don't feel this way, it's only the BR.

I use an Azeron Cyborg and mouse so I can move with an analog stick and aim with my mouse. It feels amazing because halo infinite supports dual input

As an MnK player, mad props for really understanding what's going on here. It's been disheartening to see comment sections filled with people who just operate on assumptions they've brought from other games. Before the AA patch *playing on MkB was just mentally tiring in a way other shooters aren't* because Infinite's strafing is so wild. ...And I play Quake, it's not like it's just that it's fast. Infinite simultaneously has less aim assist and more than previous games on controller. It doesn't kick in until you're much closer to your target, but once it kicks in, it tracks those little shimmies in a way previous Halos never did, and they didn't need to, because it was slow enough for controllers to track manually. I'm stuck in a position now where I either play on MnK and be the bad guy (I agree that it's probably OP now) or play on controller, where Infinite has so many inputs that it's kinda back paddles or bust, and I've just got my normal-ass 360 controller.

Unpopular opinion, but I think the reticle friction has not helped my gameplay much as a mnk player. It is definitely helping my aim, but as someone who plays with high onyx controller players, it still doesn’t make much of a difference. In order for any input improvements to help majorly, the ranked system has to be fixed first.

I love Halo. It's always been my primary shooter. But as I grew up, and I moved to PC, and I moved back to playing games like Quake and CSGO, because that is what my friends were playing. I became significantly more skilled with the mouse, and I can't really go back to controller. I should note that, in all of these games, even back in Halo 2 and 3, I'm an average player. I sit in the middle of the bellcurve, where I easily tank on bronzes, but I get equally tanked by masters. The Aim Assist in Halo: Infinite was a relief for me. It made weapons feel more natural, it made them feel *right*, it made them like what I expect Halo weapons to be. hitting one out of three rounds in a burst on a BR is an alien feeling that I had to learn to deal with on mouse. But with the update, getting 2 or all 3 became more natural. But after the first month, I went back to playing Quake for a little bit. My aim was much worse. I found my hands stopping on targets, instead of tracking them. I needed to work way harder to focus on following targets, I needed to be conscious of the fact that my hands keep wanting to stop, to stop and 'let the aim assist work.' Because there's no aim assist in Quake. So now playing Halo: Infinite is a choice I have to make with a heavy heart. Between keeping my skills in an okay position to keep playing other games. By not playing Halo, not having what is one of the most important and natural games to me. I think that's the worst position to be in, even if it means I have better performance now than before the update. I want to keep playing Halo, but I don't want to feel like I'm working so hard to get 4 bursts on target, just to miss 2/3rds of each burst because I can't work hard enough. I don't want to feel like I'm just bodying hundreds of people with better game sense, better positioning, better fights, who can't keep up because they're playing with two thumbs. I don't want to choose between Halo and all the other games that I play, either. Balance between mouse and controller is extremely important to me. It's the balance between the feeling of legitimacy, and the performance of not only myself, but my teammates and opponents. I think that controller and KBM can definitely be balanced, and I think the key is not necessarily weaker/less aim assist, or stronger/more aim assist. I think the key is the weapons. Many of the weapons in Halo: Infinite are unforgiving in ways that make it difficult for mouse players to use them. Any weapon that requires you to keep a fine tune of your bursts, like the Needler, or the BR. They come with just enough punishment to hurt you significantly if you miss a single round. I think weapons need to be designed with more of an expectation that players will miss. Sure, a tactical rifle like the BR, Commando, and DMR, should be a weapon you can get a perfect with. But the Needler? the Sentinal Cannon? the AR and Pulse Rifle? These weapons are so high speed and sensitive that it's impossible to use them perfectly without aim assist. Why pick up the Needler when missing one out of the 13 needles is trivial since a player can just change direction, and instantly break its tracking? It's only got 26, and the TTK of 26 is much higher than 13. I think a criticism that many of the casual players levy on Halo: Infinite is one that, in being addressed, would significantly help to balance mouse with controller, All the weapons feel highly specific in their range and role, where it's trivial to use them in that range and role. But the moment you leave that range and role, the weapon's performance falls off a cliff. This is something I felt even before the Aim Assist was added to mouse. Get the right range with the BR, just that sweetspot, and you'd never miss a burst. But get too close, get too far, and suddenly, everything requires way more effort. The weapons are easy to use, but that ease of use is fragile, and that fragility makes the inconsistency from un-assisted aim impossible to manage. I think that controller players might just be happier with having less aim assist in key ranges, at the increase of RRR versatility, making weapons perform better across a wider variety of ranges, but more difficult to use. Higher skill players will have more of a ceiling to climb toward, while casual players will have less of a performance floor to fall below.

they should take off the small aim assist but increase hitbox/bullet magnetism on mnk. Make it a little more forgiving.

As a casual mnk player, I would say that the crosshair friction makes the game a lot more enjoyable to play. Before the update, it felt like I had to try very hard to track and land all my shots and it made the game feel a little lopsided because I would always be getting lasered by controller players. Now it is much more even, but I think they should turn down the crosshair friction and increase the amount of bullet magnetism on pc because it would have the same effect of leveling the playing field w controller in terms of tracking and aiming while also making it feel more natural for pc mnk players. Coming to Halo from playing other FPS games on pc feels a little jarring because the crosshair friction changes the muscle memory of how you aim so much.

Halo mouse and keyboard player with 3,350.6 hours in MCC and 864.7 hours (plus around another 400 via Xbox) on Infinite. When it comes to pre-patch MnK, I think you said all there is to say in that playing mouse is "playing a completely different game." The super high-strafe speed and strafe acceleration on top of the aim assist and bullet magnetism settings provided to controller very easily made the experience unfair in situations where a MnK player was facing a controller player who both have the same level of skill relative to other people in their respective inputs. In particular, the issue is that game demanded too high a discipline for MnK users to not only be able to stay on target (which controller excels at in comparison), but also be able to land all their shots -- especially with burst weapons like the BR, which is the baseline loadout for competitive. However, these issues also extended into social play in that weapons that possess bloom - i.e. the sidekick and, to a slightly lesser degree, commando - were borderline unfeasible to use at higher rank lobbies (think around Diamond 5 and beyond), as controller allowed for a smaller margin of error when it came to hitting shots alongside a longer effective range due to its aforementioned unique aim assist and bullet magnetism settings. Having said all that, I want to make it clear that the issue is not with controller, I understand why the input is fine-tuned the way it is in terms of accessibility and the precedent that has been set by prior titles. The real issue is with the way mouse and keyboard has been set up, or more likely the lack thereof. I do believe that the changes which came with the December patch of the Winter Update were able to resolve the main problems plaguing MnK I outlined rather successfully. While I continue to lose the gunfights that I should, I am very pleased to see myself win battles where I should be the victor (whether that be due to superior precision skills or due to my opponent not being as good), I am able to hit full bursts at the same rate relative to folks using the controller input, I can use guns like the sidekick much more consistently, and I have much less stress keeping up with the game's strafe (again, relative to a controller player of the same skill as me). I think when it comes to adjusting the MnK input going forward (as they are sure as hell not staying the same), I can totally understand reducing the aim-assist values (ideally not to a point where it's practically useless). The other viable alternative that people have suggested since the flights would be to readjust the bullet magnetism for each gun, which - while ideally should counter the strafe and bring the margin of error gap in landing shots between both inputs closer together - is something I would definitely want to see in practice first. Ultimately, while there are still ways to continue to perfect the input, I am extremely happy with what we have in place right now -- especially coming off a very rough first year of Infinite.

My thoughts, been playing since halo1 system link days. I played halo2 project cartographer lobbies on mouse and keyboard and never went back I just like the freedom and mouse feels. The way I track shots is just like I did on controller very limited look mostly strafing. The update doesn’t feel like it added a lot you still have to use the same movement principles.

One thing that only just now occured to me, on the mouse you don't really rely on your thumbs. On the conrtoller sticks, you do rely on them to make precise movements, even though historically the thumbs are considered your least clever digits. Growing up, i played consoles like the Sega Genesis and had my thumbs under the controller, letting me click buttons similar to typing and it was about as precise as i could want it to be. Then they came up with thumbsticks and everything i'd had scripted into my genes as a kid became useless and i had to teach my monkey fingers the unnatural.

alot of halo players have played halo for 20 years and only halo. the mnk players are mostly new i dont know why they think they should just come in and dominate they can already turn faster i feel likewith aim assist that is gonna be hard to counter

Another thing, he is on 240fps when most are on 60fps. He is skilled but as a controller player getting overs at the minimum every night on 60fps, I don't worry tremendously

I play on PC with MNK and I feel like the game's aim assist/friction can vary wildly from game to game. One game I'm hitting clean headshot only, the next game I feel like I'm missing everything. It's gotten to a point that it's very hard to deny that the game is deciding how good I will perform in a given match. Do you know if there is any truth to this?

Oh boy here we go

If they added a dual sens option for controller so that you can hold a button and increase your sensitivity so that you can turn around as fast as a mouse they could level out aim assist for both worlds and you'd introduce all the pros of fast turns in controller play which is a shame not to use

As an old fart who grew up on MnK, and switched to the Loller many years ago, I’m finding it really fun playing ranked on a smurf, to get used to MnK again.

Infinite should only allow KBM for ranked and all the roller players who wanna grind should learn kbm.

This halo is the most frustrating out all the halos imo. It doesn’t feel consistent at all. Aim assist and shot registration feel different after every game. This is the only halo where I’ve had to readjust my settings multiple times just to get the right feel and even then it still feels off. Maybe this game is meant to be played on a high end PC.

Fantastic video as always @Shyway, I've been following you since the beginning and you never disappoint. First bonded with you over fighting game mechanics and why Halo isn't dissimilar as a shooter and what pulled us to it. This AA topic is one that really resonates with me as of late, not only is it often misunderstood, but Halo Infinite is a truly unique case. The misunderstanding of Halo as a whole by the masses lead to the overthought in balancing input methods and it's apparent in how Infinite fundamentally feels. I play games with KBM, controller, arcade stick, etc. I'm fairly diverse in my gaming, especially competitively over the years. I don't expect Counter Strike to be balanced for controller players the same way I don't expect Halo to be balanced for KBM players, but in an attempt to do so controller has been left feeling off. It's not a matter of if its viable, because it is still superior, but it *feels* terrible. I'm talking about Left Stick Aiming. I understand it, I successfully apply it, but I hate it... Novel incoming: I’ve played Halo since 2001, shooters before that and play on controller and KBM (depending on the game) respectively. There has never been a shooter that feels more odd to aim in than Infinite, which is a shame because Halo as a series has always had feel good aiming. So many threads say the game has no AA, others say too much, here is why: The problem is baffling, the game does have a ridiculous amount of AA but not where the player actually needs it. In every Halo the player aims and tracks with the right stick, moves, strafes and counter strafes to throw their opponent off with the left stick. In Infinite the LEFT STICK has an absurd amount of AA and barely any with the right stick. With any drift the AA literally tracks for you. This cripples Halo at its core. In Halo it was never tough to snap to a target and track them. The skill gap didn’t come from finding the opponent, but using your left stick to throw off their shots by counter strafing, mixing up movement, traversing a map backwards, jumping at the right moment, etc. You can fundamentally do these things because the left stick is free, the right is where you’re aiming while doing these things. People uneducated to the Halo formula think AA in Halo is too easy, but a bad player NEVER out BR’s a good player because of the above movement and knowledge, performed by the left stick. Infinite takes all of this away by making the AA on the right stick so small that it feels jerky and removes that smooth, methodical aiming and instead forces players to use the egregious amounts of AA on the left stick to track. The AA kicks in directly on top of a target, not in the vicinity around them like it used to. We don't want or need the game to aim for us, we simply want to have fluid control to aim ourselves as we have for two decades. This equates to boring and predictable battles where not much happens other than the same micro strafes. Instead of counter strafing you’re literally strafing the same to keep the target lined up. Some wonder why the strafe speed in Infinite is “cracked” and lacks de-acceleration/acceleration when changing direction. It's because you actually aim with the left stick in this game and thus it has to be instantaneous. Out of everything wrong with this game, this departure from Halo feeling like Halo is the worst offender to me. Most complain about content, which I totally understand. But we played with two colors, no skins and on one map Lockout for almost 20 years and never get bored. Content matters, but a great core lasts forever. Infinite’s core is fundamentally flawed. It’s a fun game on its own but lacks that feel good aiming Halo always had. It’s immediately noticeable after going back to any classic Halo, it’s like taking off the shackles.

Another way to have Controller + Mouse harmony is via Steam input to use Gyro aiming/motion control , which makes it possible to have mouse like aim on controller However you'll need to get a gyro mod for Xbox controller/ a PS controller /nintento pro controller for this

The issue with halo 3 was that they purposely design the br to drop a shot at random. The reason? “to make it fair”!!?!?? So what if they’re doing that as well in halo infinite?

I PRAY we get a 5 shot precision starting weapon. Preferably a magnum... I’d compromise for a no bloom DMR.

As a KBM player that would consider himself above average in other games. For the first many months of Halo Infinite, it was basically impossible to play. That was the general conscience among all PC gamers too, why would they play a game that feels literally impossible to play on par with controllers? After the assists were added to KBM I have been thoroughly enjoying Halo Infinite and I know many other PC players that quit when the game released have been saying the same. I still can't really compete in Ranked, but at least in Casual I feel competent enough to have a good time. If anything, I would like to see a minor buff to BR because like you said, in close combat, it is very hard to compete with controller players. Edit: Something I've considered for a long time as well is making it to where the BR shoots its fastest when you just hold the fire button. On KBM, not many people talk about this, but everytime you click, it knocks your aim off a little bit, so many KBM players just prefer full auto weapons. Maybe that would be the buff KBM needs to compete with BRs.

Why do I lose AIM assist when paying online ? Sometimes it is like I switch from 4 sens to 10 sens immediately. And I have no aim assist at all. (Playing in the Xbox one S (the one that plays CDs still)

And it feels not natural when i can feel the aim assist. Sometimes it would just drag my crosshair somewhere else. For example if the guy jumps , the assist reacts faster than i do but i dont realize it yet , so i move my mouse and now i miss the target

I've been playing mostly mnk since launch and this update improved my accuracy from 35-40% to around 50-55%. Now I believe I've gotten better at the game in that time frame so take those numbers with a grain of salt but I do think this update helped mnk players a lot. I still get beaten in most 1v1 br fights in ranked so I don't believe the updates made mnk overpowered but I think the changes make mnk at least somewhat viable with all the advantages (I'm a low diamond rank tho so my word is no where near as good as some pros). Before the update I would get a perfect kill with a br maybe 2-3 times in a 2 hour play session and now I get one nearly every game.

When I first started playing Halo Infinite I would play on mouse and keyboard cause I didn’t have a controller at the time. I sucked a lot since I was used to play halo on controller. Some time forward to now, my aim is better on mouse and keyboard compared to controller. Not that I’m a onyx or anything

As someone who plays MnK in every other game, I love the update. I love how the game feels on MnK now. BR is tougher but I feel like this update allows me to play my playstyle better. It took me a bit to get used to again but they nailed it imo😊

comp players already think the sandbox is overpowered, making strafe speed slower would be a disaster.

I play halo on steam but for some reason MnK Aim assist that everybody talks about does not exist on my end. Tested even 90 to 120 FOV. if anyone has an Idea from others for windows 10 I would like to hear it.

Omg and unbinding 10x scope needs to happen. It’s literally in my muscle memory from every other halo that the scope resets. But 4 whatever reason 343 decide yea let’s not reset the scope let’s stay at full zoooooooom. Why tf lmao it fucked with me so bad, I had to consciously train it out of my muscle memory. Not to mention the bullet speed is so slow that 10x when you shoot someone in the head at long distance it feels slow and laggy. The bullet speed needs to be faster and unbind 10x

I'm really happy about this. Sence moving away from xbox and halo a handful of years back, I've been exclusivly playing other shooters on m+k, using a controller for shooters feels awful now. When MCC moved to steam, I thought "great! I can play my favorite Halo titles from years past on PC now, awesome!" Except, not awesome. As someone who is generally good at shooters, just about every game I play, I get put into the higher tier of SBMM lobbies. Anytime I played Halo Reach or Halo 3 for any extended period of time, I'd get put into those same "high skill" lobbies like I usually do with any other shooter I decide to pick up. But with Reach and 3, every lobby was naturally filled with controller players that would never miss, and I'd lose 9 out of 10 gunfights for no skillful reason. Just the fact that, they had a far superior input method that gave them a distinct and unfair advantage in duels. Similar thing with Infinite (although not as much). I never even bothered with comp in infinite and stuck with casual playlists because I knew that I would just lose and get hard capped at some point because I wasnt using a controller. After this update, I now feel like I can compete, and I can stay on target "almost" as constistantly as a controller player. I say almost because I still feel like I'll lose 6 out of 10 of the gunfights, but that's ok, because I'm aware of the other advatages that using a m+k has (as you pointed out in your video). I feel like the difference between m+k and controller is the most balanced its ever been, and is probably the best of any other game out there. I feel 343i has hit it right on the nose with this m+k aim assist update and I'm excited to get back into this game again. (sorry for the life story of a comment lol)

You will excel in what you practice. I casually shoot over 70% every game in ranked. Beyond 9000 check the stats

As a lowly Diamond player on kbm I still think that AA on controllers is slightly too strong in a crossplay environment. I would've liked a search feature to search for games with the same peripherals but kbm community is dead especially in my country. I don't want AA on kbm personally but would rather a bit of bullet magnetism and I feel like I hear that sentiment all the time, AA throws off my aim more than it helps. However knowing 343 and that the vast vast majority of players will stick to controllers I've come to accept that kbm will always lose in this argument (if you want to call it such) and would rather play something else that I personally feel is fair

To add a shorter comment, (I know the vid is about infinite but I've thought about MnK in Halo a lot) Halo 1 three shot on controller = approximately the same difficulty as a four shot on Halo 3 on MnK Therefore lower aim assist on controller to the level of the most competitive Halo title to date and we gucci.

This is for sure a good thing.

They should add a toggle for this and mouse friction, it should not be locked on because not everyone needs or like this.

Highest rank I got this season with MNK was 1856. It's so incredibly hard to keep up with aim assist controllers when you're matching against top tier players and pros every match at this rating. I don't think MNK is where it needs to be just yet. It's definitely forward progress but controller still has the edge.

what is crazy to me is that M&K didnt have Red reticle on most weapons. But Controller did on all. That setting makes the biggest difference. playing aginst someone on controller while not having red reticle was straight up like playing aginst an aimbot. The reason being, Bloom and Bullet spread. A controller player could full auto the commando or side kick and hit most shots while the M&K player HAD to pace almost EVERY SINGLE shot because the red reticle wasnt there to make the bullet hit when its supposed to. I am happy that it is here now. What i am not happy about is the Aim Assist. It has ruined the game for me. My aim is thrown off and feels so bad now. the worst thing about it is that YOU CAN 'NOT' turn it off... Like WHY?????????

I have been using mouse and controller for about a month now. I really like it its been fun.

I have been playing mnk halo for several years now, and I think this change was much needed. Good controller players had a clear advantage over mnk. I think right now it's actually fairly balanced

Almost impressed with your breakdowns, man. Keep it up

I think a very simple change they can make to even the gap without changing aim assist at all is by reducing the speed of strafe acceleration. Infinite's insanely fast strafe acceleration is a large reason why it's so hard to track targets with less or no aim assist.

I think slowing down the counter strafe would've been a better first step rather than giving mnk aim assist to be honest. The strafe in this game is faster than any other Halo and you can also crouch whilst strafing (which I know you could do in H5 at least) but in older Halo's you had to center the stick before crouching.

Dont know about other mnk users but for me assist fucks up my movement and just the way i feel my sens when im not shooting. Because it slows you down when you are on target but then when im not on target it feels like im playing on new sens

Late comment but I believe that controller is still stronger only downside to me on controller is turning quick enough. On mouse it’s left and right where I can aim good or not usually can tell when I’m playing controller because I get 4 shot way more often I can get up to 70% accuracy on mouse and still not hit 4 shots

I play on MnK on MCC and I can confirm DMR is way better. I think having a DMR or something like it that's equivalent to the BR in damage would be great for making MnK viable.