Good video, and I generally agree with almost everything discussed here. The boss design philosophy has gradually headed towards being a spectacle rather than being fun to play. The overuse of particle/visual effects flying around, the enemy aggression, their mobility, their speed and the minimal punishable downtime between boss attacks usually means that the best way to beat bosses is to just not engage with them traditionally at all and instead melt them with overpowered builds. The bosses could easily fit into a traditional high speed hack-and-slash game like DMC and Bayonetta, whereas the player is still, for the most part, restricted to Dark Souls style movement (albeit slightly faster and with a dedicated jump button). The player has more tools at their disposal, but those tools usually involve keeping a distance and just not actually engaging with the actual boss mechanics (like using overpowered Ashes of War, incantations, spells or summons) . . . which, at least in my opinion, usually just isn’t fun.

The problem with ER and DLC especially is simple, it can be summes up with "You are a Dark Souls Charachter fighting an Bloodborne/Sekiro Boss"

What I learned, after the fact, is that there were more VERY SPECIFIC items strewn about the world that made fights easier. I don’t recall the name now, but something like, “Marika’s Lock of Hair” Talisman that basically negates a LOT of Radahn/Miquella’s holy damage. Also the first Furnace Golem drops a tear that creates some sort of super-version of guard attacks that is supposed to make Rellana’s fight MUCH easier. It’s almost like there is something out in the world to change the difficulty of each fight, and there may be. The issue comes down to looking at the base game like a tutorial for the DLC. It changed things that ultimately I’d have never suspected based on the fact that those “things” weren’t necessary in the base game. I’m getting my butt kicked by a boss, wander off, nab some runes, come back stronger and win. The progression system of every rpg. The DLC suddenly tells you to go on a scavenger hunt to find ITEMS to get stronger. Where they are, how MANY there are, or how many there are in the area I can get to without killing a boss. Also, the fact that people were saying to look at the fight and make changes to my build when needed. The build I beat the whole game with was suddenly not good enough to beat the DLC? The build I was synchronized with better than any build I’d had in the game? Don’t get me wrong, I still love the base game, and even though I am not as happy with the DLC, I still loved it. I did find things that I felt were pretty contradictory, but in no way made me dislike it. The DLC just points out how they’re having a hard time keeping up with the increase of the challenge the game offers. I just think the artificial difficulty was the biggest mistake. A very video-gamey addition to the game which it didn’t need. The map is huge and there’s some areas that have essentially nothing in them… that’s my last one.

I think the only thing I disagree with you on is whether DLC is good or not. I would also add the many delayed attacks and speed of attacks that enemies have in this DLC.

What missing for me is the new secrets. I loved in the first game when just started and somehow sneaked through the sentinel and the giant and got to the beach and discovered a cave where I went down a little bit then found a fast running silver trail on the beach and a vednor and then got a key for these strange doors or got a dragon jump on me in the swamp, find a chest teleport me in a dangerous mine or saw those big carts pulled by giants and at night dead birds come and those night chivalry.... etc. So many things to discover then accidently went in a lift in the forrest and it took me to a long ride where my jaw dropped how exciting that place looked (Nocron or Siofra not sure). Here there is not soo much new. The look at this place is quiet impressive but I can't really recall any new stuff. Like there where these big moving furnaces... they not fun because they so one sided gimicky field bosses. First there is the one you need to knock its leg... that part is super good, but then you need to do that 3-4 times and they constantly spamming you with homecomming AOE attacks, then they change on this and you have to throw stuff in their basket... not any stuff but just hefty fire pot or furnace pots acceptable. You need to perform this like 6-8 times while they spamming you constantly with huge AOE attacks. You learn the gimmics and perform it... it's fine. But why then you need to repeat it multiple times is beyond me. Some bosses are just straight too much. Constant spamming you with a barrage of AOE attacks and running away from you to the other side of the arena and repeat. But there are great bosses, great new places... I just wish they filled the world more.

I think you are missing the point of the Scadutree Fragments (which you call Erdtree Fragments). You say they only exist to "Give you a chance to survive the bosses", but it's the inverse of that. The bosses are scaled to this level so you must collect the fragments. Miyazaki has stated that he wanted the DLC to continue the open world exploration that the base game had, to do this the map is massive, but more importantly he wanted you to have moments where you realize the boss is too hard and that you should explore further and gain strength. I agree that normal enemy encounters are easy, and I will never defend the final boss it's very overtuned. But the core gameplay of Elden Ring is exploring a massive world, the Scadutree Fragments force you to continue to engage with that.

I love the bosses in elden ring but alot of the "huge" enemies have the issue where they hit you and run 100meters away and do it over and over again malenia and maliketh is simply "git god" you have to learn their tells and moves before you can have any fun with them but once you get it they are some of the best bosses ever, i feel this goes for alot of the dlc bosses aswell

So I heard about the difficulty of the bosses in this one and decided to roll enough faith for the magic resist incantations as well as dex for Bolt of Gransax. Also have Blasphemous Blade when needed and always have something like Inseparable Sword for anything vulnerable to holy damage. For summons i went with Tiche for bosses and also Latenna for constant damage when fighting any world dragons. Talismans basically consist of the resist ones necessary for whatever elemental damage a boss deals. Been pretty smooth sailing so far. Havent really spent any time fighting one boss because buffing Bolt of Gransax's ability means you are hitting very hard and also knocking bosses down. Sometimes i need to trade aggro with the summon but that is about it. Will probably have to play the game with I get to Radahn (spelling). I usually like open world games but I find I am just looking for blessings the entire time.. not interested in any items since I am not sure I will be changing my build or playing through the dlc again any time soon. Very pretty though.

I agree ....i love the dlc and hate it got review bombed but i had an issue with alot of the bosses and especially the last one but so many of them no longer feel like a fight at all and im ok with chip damage but the dlc with most weapons is compareable to level 1 with a stick dodgeing perfectly for hours while pokeing the light show with a stick isnt fun

When Sekiro came out, people kept refusing to engage with the core mechanic of parrying, jumping and mikiri counters, and got filtered out by the f-ing Chained Ogre. Now with Elden Ring people keep refusing to engage with summons and other core elements of the game, and then complain the bosses are not fine tuned for their DS3 playstyle. I'm not saying it's a perfect game or the bosses have no issues, but most problems with boss aggression and long combos is basically tied to the fact that the game is expecting a 2v1 (or relative numbers of summons of any given ash + NPC), not a 1v1. People not using consumables, items, and spirit ashes are basically doing challenge runs.

I really loved ER for all of its highs and faults, only really didn't enjoy fire giant, maliketh, or elden beast (but now with torrent patched in he's not so bad). Giant and Beast just because I hated chasing them around, not even due to difficulty or anything. But with the DLC, after a lot of the bosses, it wasn't even like 'oh wow I beat it' it was more just, 'man glad that's over, sheesh.' Something I didn't have at all with the base game. DLC was still fantastic though.

Love the video! But also for radahns second phase, theres actually a very easy to tell pattern in the holy attacks. The holy attacks will always follow with his strikes, in the arc they were swung. Basically imagine theres a tight circle around him that you need to stay in, requirijg you to balance aggression with reflexes in order to kill him. Also for gaius, try jumping for many of his attacks, theyre pretty easy to avoid that way

I’d agree with more about the bosses if the game itself didn’t offer a lot of options to make any fight significantly easier

Actually radahn is easy and well designed when you use all items in the game. The first Radahn fight in the base game gives you a hint to his weakness and the strategy to run against him.

I do agree with some points, but also disagree with some (who would've guessed, right?). To get it out of the way right away, I thought the Radahn holy beams in second phase were actually very clearly telegraphed, like where they appear. It's always where his blades strike, with 1 (?) exception that I can think of, the double slash at the end of a 3-hit combo where the beams surround him all the way. I personally think that the beams are actually the best part of the second phase. The difficulty in dodging them is VERY brutal, as they essentially show you that there is only one correct way to dodging that attack. The punishment for being hit by one however, to compensate for how difficult they are to dodge perfectly, is also very small. The damage CAN add up if you get hit by a lot of them, but at that point you probably just deserve it. The stagger after they hit is also negligible so they feel fair. Not to say I particularly enjoyed his second phase, I thought that the clone attacks were a joke. To this time, I have no idea how to perfectly dodge it. I was just spamming roll and sometimes getting hit by just one, sometimes getting hit by 3. Anyway, not here to defend second phase Radahn, mainly talk about other things. While I do agree with criticisms such as the open world exploration being a little bit too easy, Bayle refusing to give you time to attack after dodging for 43 minutes and then getting randomly hit for a billion damage because the fire attacks in this game work very weirdly and inconsistently and his hitboxes being wonky at times, the Lion's lightning strikes being BS, I feel like calling the level design less impressive surprised me. I feel like the landscapes, presentations of certain areas, enemies and the mood and feel following them is exceptional in this DLC. This is something Elden Ring excels at, and where it has gathered the most players from outside soulslike enjoyers, and the DLC has pumped it up even further. The caves and catacombs are way more original, less same-y and the world feels great to traverse through (with one exception being the area of the map located at the top right corner, the way to get there is just stupid, especially if you were playing offline like me (I had an arachnophobia mod on) and couldn't read messages left by other players). And something that bothers me in the base game to this day, how are all the castles in this game literally identical? Loretta's castle, Niall's castle, entirety of Stormveil and Leyndell are just very very similar and feel unnecessarily confusing to go through while offering no engaging combat experience whatsoever, it mainly just being 50 different random enemies that were never meant to work with eachother ganging up on you, forcing you to run through the entire thing with barely any exploration available anyway. I feel like the DLC completly fixes that problem? Rellana's castle, Lion's, Messmer's and Midra's mansion feel COMPLETLY different (yes, Messmer's is significantly bigger so it allows for more variety but still, Stormveil and Leyndell still somehow failed in that regard) (yes, I do not remember their names so I'm calling them by their main boss). Maybe Midra's mansion is a bit more similar to your average Elden Ring castle experience but at least the amount of enemies is fairly spread and realistically possible to clear out. My main complaint about the DLC would actually be that the world, even though exceptional visually and spiritually, a bit empty. I can however see it as a way to amplify what I have mentioned earlier, the fact that caves and encounters just feel a lot less repetetive and boring than in the base game. I'm somewhat torn on the amount of space on the map being sacrificed for the haunted forest and the finger ruins. The woods are really cool, but there just isn't much there, the only thing really being just Midra. And the ruins, well... There's literally nothing. No fragments, no collectibles to... collect, just a few enemies and that's it. It simply felt disappointing for my adventurous soul. So as I said, while I agree with most smaller issues, for me personally it doesn't take away from the fact that this expansion offers probably the best bossfights FromSoft has ever created (Messmer, Midra, Rellana, Death Knight in the catacombs) and managed to improve upon the already very impressive Elden Ring world, level design and exploration. The good and fantastic bosses significantly overweighed the unpolished (because that is as much as I am willing to say about *most* of the "bad" ones) ones. I could also go on a rant on how I feel that Maliketh is actually easily the best boss in base Elden Ring, but the comment is probably too long right now anyway, so maybe another time. and yeah, gaius is horrible, f that guy. and scadutree avatar too, holy moly what a terrible fight

You can beat any boss in any way with enough effort. I beat the whole DLC with minimal buffs and the Curseblade’s Cirque on Ng+7, which is by no means a broken weapon. I’ve done a bow only run of the entire game, also on Ng+7 difficulty, and some other shenanigans like torch only. For everything in a fromsoft game, there’s a way to do it that you either have to learn, such as dodging an attack the correct way, or a mechanic you can use to your advantage, such as the blasphemous claw for maliketh

This is my opinion of the dlc: Cool looking bosses with insane moves and nice looking effects but very difficult to dodge attacks combos, damage scaling of enemies is also insane (at the time of writing this I'm still at the area after beating mesmer's domain and enemies in that area hit like a truck even at lvl15 shadow blessings). Area is a it of a chore to navigate too with only reward to give you is some cookbook that I rarely use. Something about the movesets of the bosses in the dlc is just so difficult to learn, fast, aggressive, and little to no windows of opportunity to punish that is why I keep using summons to even out the field. I personally find fighting malenia more bearable than the new bosses in the dlc. The new Weapons are great love them, especially the great katanas. Overall the Dlc is great pretty sure most of the bosses in the dlc can be easily defeated once you learn them just basically "Git gud" Even though it feels unfair at times.

My experience with the DLC bosses (done it with 2 characters now) is that either you die immediately or you win (except on Radahn, who waits until p2 for you to have no idea what's going on and then kills you). Bayle was the 1st major boss I fought on my 1st run through the dlc (only other ones fought were the ones on the way to bayle) I kept dying pretty much instantly at the start since it seems like in the dlc all the bosses use a big hit to close the gap immediately. there are definitely some things I don't particularly like about the direction of the boss design but apart from Radahn I overall liked the bosses. I actively dislike Radahn p2 and find it such nonsense I don't even feel like learning it, sure one can rl1 parry him or dodge most attacks and punish with a fast weapon and whatnot but I ain't got the patience to learn that, I just find the biggest sword I can and and hit things with it. I didn't spend 6 hours learning Radahn like I did Malenia but that's because on Malenia you at least have time to learn (apart from release waterfowl, all I learned about that is to run away), on Radahn since I can't even see anything the boss is doing I have no interest in even trying to learn it and if He was optional I doubt I'd ever go kill the guy on different characters. I think the lord of frenzy is my favourite boss of the DLC, bud is good too, I haven't actually experienced Mesmer properly yet since he died so quickly when I met him for the first time (and 2nd time he didn't even kill me in the 1st 5 seconds several times before he died). Radahn p2 feels like the worst boss I've ever fought (in a soulslike) and I'm all for using all the tools I have at my disposal (I don't really want to respec but I had to for Radahn, only summons I can't be bothered with (not that you could for Radahn anyway due to questlines)).

Wish bosses weren’t made with having an aggro drawing meatshield. Let them be an extra option for those who need help, just like summoning friends is

I never had an issue with Gaius and beat him like my third try. Also i thought bayle was the best dragon boss in all of souls series combined. I have also been playing these games since the beginning and play every mahor non from souls game. I also had difficulty with radahn phase two with reading his attacks but with enough time I was able to beat him and without cheese or anything like that. The one thing I agree with a lot of people on is that some fights like Radahn make it so you have very little room to punish the boss. I think that is a legitimate complaint but it did make the win feel that much better.

Agree with a lot. For me Elden Ring is one of the best games ever made and a big part is the freedom of choice it offers in the base game. A lot of that died for me in the DLC , i still beat it about 3 days after it came out, but i didt have a lot of fun doing it. My personal low kinda matches yours , after 2 hours of fighting the final boss i switched to a bleeding jump attack build and first tried him. First time Fromsoft made me feel worse after a boss win then before the win. Overall i would say it is somewhere between a 6-7/10 but i pray they dont go forward with this kind of desgin

Good video but, 20:32 this is NOT usually true at all lol 1. Demon souls - no DLC 2. Dark Souls - DLC was good but no one called it the highlight of the game lol, that’s usually Anor Londo or Ornstein/Smough 3. Dark Souls II - people like the Sinh boss fight, not the zone. Then for the next DLC, people had an okay time with the Fume Knight or Sir Alonne, but universal criticism of the zones. Then burnt ivory king was an okay fight depending on your build, but the zones from that DLC are regarded as the worst in the franchise 4. Bloodborne - good DLC, child of Kos is iconic, but I’ve never heard anyone call the DLC the “highlight of the game” 5. Dark Souls 3 - decent DLC part 1, people like Friede but zone was criticized as too small and non memorable otherwise lol. DLC part 2, probably the only time you actually have an argument that it’s the highlight of the game 6. Sekiro - no DLC 7. Elden Ring, again, good but not the “highlight of the game” 8. AC6 - no DLC Like did I miss something or is your line about “usually fromsoft DLCs are the highlight of the game” just incorrect lol

@aaronatkinson177 Dope. Yeah ive seen good things bout it. U enjoy the video? If ya did I recommend subbing😁

I LOVE the lore too much to dislike elden ring, but honestly from software peeked with gameplay in sekiro. Sekiro is just my type of game and almost everything about it is something I like.

I think you make a lot of good points in this video and I generally agree especially with your complaints about maliketh, elden beast, (and somewhat Malenia) I would also like to preface this with the fact that I went through the dlc with no spells or summons on a pure dex build. I enjoy making the game as difficult as possible so that I have to master the bosses move sets in order to win. In my opinion the elden ring dlc has some of the best bosses fromsoft have made. And there was not a single boss fight that was unfair with the exception of commander Giass. In your video you mentioned bayle not having a lot of openings. I also thought this but on a second playthrough of the dlc I realized there are even more openings than the first phase. You also mentioned radahn being unfair. I can definitely see why you would think this as his second phase is insanely difficult to learn but saying that it's unfair is just not true at all. By the end of my second playthrough there was not a single move from him that I could not dodge. Also Mesmer is the goat.

I believe the bosses are designed to counter the standard dodge roll timings from the base game, and the bosses are designed to be fought with Spirit ashes

Love this video. I definitely see the similarities between Elden Ring and DS 2. They both seem to be overly concerned with being hard, whereas DS 3 wanted to be hard but fair... in DS 3, I was never confused as to what killed me and how to react to it... killing the player is easy, making it his fault and showing him how to improve is art

The Gaius fight is supposed to be a bit of a “huh?” In the story more than anything, I think. He’s Messmer’s buddy and he’s an albinauric. The armored boar is like his wolf mount for the albinauric archers, but why is he using gravity magic? I get that he’s guarding the big sap storage unit thingie, and there’s a bunch of fragments there, but I just don’t get how he fits in at all there. I don’t often search for the story, but since the base game came out 2 years ago I watched a few million videos and get them best snapshot of the story and decided I would try to piece together the story of the DLC, but so much of it makes less sense than usual.

Good video! I agree with most of your points. When discussing difficulty in this game series, people often forget to value the fun and satisfaction of playing. Like the counter argument for the DLC being too difficult is "yeah but you can just use summons or respec, there are so many ways to play the game". While I kind of get what they're trying to say, this does not make for a fun and satisfying feeling when playing the game. Every time I've had to whip out the mimic tear this great feeling of accomplishment i associate with these games is instantly gone, and even tho I killed the boss, it feels like a defeat. It's not fun to get jumped the second you step through the fog door, its not fun not getting openings to heal, its not fun not being able to see whats going on or read the opponents attacks.

The DLC was pretty good untill I fought Bayle and Radahn solo

Despite all the idiots in the comments saying the bosses are designed for summons, no they aren’t. If they were they would get new attacks, have attacks that are undodgeable without switching aggro, change aggro during combos (sometimes they do unprompted like with gaius’ gravity spin but it’s rare and rng, hitting the boss doesn’t count since you have to prompt it which makes this is an example of single player design), perhaps an alternate phase or scripted interactions with spirit ashes. Hell grab attacks don’t even work on spirit ashes, clearly they are designed to be fought solo. But mainly I want to say that gaius is not a bad fight at all, his hitboxes and timings are forgiving, even the dash attack is learnable. In just a few hours of practice I can dodge all of his attacks with consistency, enough to kill the boss by two handing a dagger. Once you learn him he’s on the same tier as Midra honestly. You can even stay close to him to manipulate the ai to do the dash attack and gravity spells way less if you don’t want to learn them.

What are your thoughts on the lies of p bosses 🤔 😉

I swear to God i hate Commander Gaius (Hog Rider) boss fight so much. Gyobu, Tree Sentinal is a much better fight, they hit hard, but they let you have tine bo breathe and thinks about your mistakes... I hate that Hog 😣

I 've been around these games for long. I still remember like yesterday 12 years ago people complaining that DS1 was IMPOSSIBLE. Even the Undead Burg. And then they said it is a masterpiece. 2 Years later in 2014 i still remember it like yesterday the ultimate RAGE of the community about the Fume Knight and how this boss was completely unfair. Then it was about Sister Friede being unfair because it is a bloodborne boss in a Souls Game. Then it was Malenia and how bullshit she was. Now it is Radahn. Yes, the moveset of Elden Ring bosses is bullshit if you approach it like it is Dark Souls. IF you use all the tools the game gives you (spirit summons WHICH ARE A WEAPON MEANT TO BE USED, all the buffs, Deflects and everything else) it is still the easiest Souls Game. In my first playthrough of the DLC that i did use the Mimic Tear and had a well developed build, Radahn died in my 4rth try (the first 2 i died as i entered the arena so they don't really count, so my 2nd actual try), without even seeing his entire moveset. Sure i had a far harder time when i fighted him solo, but this is not playing "as intended". The option is there for you to take if you want the challenge.

Fully agree, i didnt fight radahn yet but i hate the commander boss fight. The bosses have like unlimited combos which you can barely dodge at times and they always follow you during that. It was one of my gripes with the main game at times too, but it feels pretty dialed up in the dlc. But aside from that, great DLC!

Use a shield much ??

The copium being consumed regarding the dlc is vast. I love elden ring. I have over 1000 hours across 7 characters. I did enjoy the dlc for my first play through. Going back on my other characters, I’m really dreading it. The area is too large and vapid. If I want to play coop then expect to spend more time running than fighting. If legacy dungeons are the best part of the map then why have such wasted space. The map graphically, is beautiful. Why am I getting base early game items as pickups? Makes zero sense and is just lazy. Many bosses are not enjoyable to fight. World bosses are reskins which again, lazy. DS3 had much better content in the dlcs so FROM has done better. This dlc could have saved invasions but instead handed out a death sentence. Why are there no covenants? Why do I still need to 2v1 or 3v1 constantly? Why did the taunters tongue not get a rework? The weapons are so cool yet so unbalanced. Invasions have become less fun for a majority because the meta is so op. It’s disappointing considering the player base is high atm and will eventually fall off.

Mostly consistent, however I do not agree on the difficulty (it really wasn't bad at all people just didnt do what they were told and got spanked for it) and I whole heartedly disagree on the holy beams comment. Everyone keeps saying its random and what not when its really not. PCR's ONLY attack that has a random element that isnt random is his partial screen clear light barrage. It targets within 3 meters of wherever you are headed and is tightly packed. its not random its more of a bullet-hell type attack. However, there IS a design flaw with this attack and its that you cant see behind you. tacking your lock on off of PCR is damn near suicide because if you choose to see behind you or around you to dodge those beams, you now can't see the Herculean demigod and his potential afterimage- meteor attacks. I'd rate his fight an 8/10. Nothing needs to change for him except his tanky ass health bar. I'd say it would be almost as fun as Messmer if he didn't have Maliketh level bs with Rykard level healths. Same with Lightning on Dancing Beast, though the point is valid, it can catch you right out of anim. Its clear that the design philosophy is not specifically spectacle but rather punishment. SOTE was built from the lowest ranks to to the top with pursuit in mind. The only 2 major concepts tweaked/introduced were longer combo's and longer lunges (everybody) to chase players. That with a side of poise warfare lmao

meh just whining about difficulty. The bosses are not unfair, people like you just dont know how to adapt and find openings. Messmer for example is full of big openings where you can charge up 2handed heavy attacks without trading. People are just used to circling around or rolling a little to succeed. And like others said, you dont understand the purpose of fragments. In similar fashion you dont understand the boss design either so you think theyre unfair. Maliketh and Malenia are great bosses for example. Both are easy to stagger and you can parry maliketh. Bayle is literally the best dragon fight theyve ever. Unironically this is a skill issue. You showing footage of yourself running around with a vigor debuff for no reason or showing you dont know how to fight dragons in these games at all. Hint you have to go for the head, not his toes while panic rolling

Crapping on Elden Ring dlc, so got right now. Seriously, y'all need a dose of reality. This has some of the best content of all of Fromsoftware's work, but y'all pretend it's bad because you dislike some design decisions in it. Because it's Fromsoftware, unless it's the most mind blowing content every minute, it's not good for you people...

noob

Yeah the dlc is mid. Not even close to the quality of the base game

Your opinion is valid but this is really a 21 minute video that can be summed up by: skill issue. I fight every fs boss like it's ds3 and if you actually care to learn and adapt to boss movesets/unlocking cam (yes lock on can be a bait and make your fight much harder, like bayle) and learn how to properly maximize your build, all these fights you find problems with turn into better fights than ds3 ever had

duuuuuuuuuuuude, it just sounds like THIS game WASNT FOR YOU. MANY OF us LOVE this(you also sound like the type thats bitching that FF14 dawntrail is now"hard") Look its FUN AS ALL HELL its easy af to beat but its still FUN