Come talk about it with me live: twitch.tv/mactics Also I already know a lot of people are going to skip the video to comment some version of “oh wah wah just grind.” Most folks are happy to grind, they just want different options of things to play to do that grind. That simple, mic drop 👍🏼

Now that you mention it, it really SHOULD be on pathfinder. A guaranteed drop on ritual and pale heart pathfinder is needed.

They shouldn’t allow dupes

I agree that these should drop from anywhere. We could talk to death about other solutions but this is the best one. Pale Heart can get stale, the exotic mission as well. Just make it a normal exotic drop and let us find it, not farm it. The second thing is just the vault space issue. I think these should be craftable with the ability to extract a perk, even if not permanent. I don’t need 64 copies of a class item in my vault.

Honestly I think the solution is the item should be changed to be everyone just has one exotic class item, and the exotic perks are "mods" you slot in. Then we just have to unlock 16 exotic perks for the one item

There are more problems that I see… with 192 possible class item rolls in total, storing all of them would take up almost 1/3 of your vault space, which is ridiculous. It also isn’t very easy to expand on if Bungie were to ever add more traits. Just one more trait in each column would mean 17 more total possible rolls per class item. To solve both these problems, I see a simple solution. Instead of dropping a class item with two random rolls, have the class items be able to swap in and out different traits (similar to mods or multiple perks on weapons). The first class item you unlock (from the mission) would give you access to a random trait from the first and a random trait from the second. Each additional “drop” of the class item gives you access to one trait you don’t already have for that class item (works on a knock out system. The same trait on different class items needs to be acquired separately for each class, for example earning spirit of the syntho for Warlock, doesn’t unlock it for Titan or Hunter). This means that for the current traits in the game, you would only need to earn 15 drops of the class item to fully unlock each perk combination, while also only needing you to have one physical item on your character/in your vault, as you can freely swap out traits once unlocked, giving you lots of freedom to try out different combinations and work out what works and what doesn’t. This also means if Bungie wanted to add more traits, you only have to earn the trait itself to unlock all the combinations with it. One more in each column would mean 2 more drops, not 17 (minimum in the current system).

My main problem is that I play other games too. I'm also an adult so my play time is limited these days and I'm not particularly willing to dedicate a massive amount of it to D2 to farm these things. For example I logged on yesterday to run the GM a few times and then I was done, after that I wanted to go play a different game. I probably won't be on again until the weekend and I want to do crucible not farm some mission or run around endlessly in the pale heart. I would say overall my biggest gripe with D2 these days is that they really like to try and tell us what to do. The pathfinder is telling me what to do. Getting the newest exotics only has two options and neither of them are something I want to do. The artifact is telling me what types of guns to run. The list could go on. My point is that players who have paid to unlock everything should be able to do whatever they want and have a chance to get relevant rewards. I

The answer is simple and easy to fix. Similar to the way The Elder Scrolls Online had the same issue. They introduced a 'sticker book' that only dropped rolls you don't have. Then once the 'books' completed you would get random rolls. This would save even if you deleted the roll but can't require from the said book

I’d happily spend an exotic cipher, shard, alloy (whatever) to pair 2 class items together - 1 column left slot and 1 column right slot. I’d be basically trading that time I used to earn those mats with runs of dual destiny. I’m at least 40 runs deep and haven’t gotten the top 3 I’ve wanted. In fact, I’ve gotten only 1 hoil roll.

I think the middle ground will end up being letting us focus class items with exotic engrams at Rahool.

I could see a method similar to crafting where you sacrifice two of the class items and get to pick one perk from each.

Let's also acknowledge that exotic class items were overhyped, I got caliban liars and its either slightly better than liars handshake sometimes, but usually a lot worse. The healing from liars is there for a reason and it just feels better to use

Turn it into a crafting system. Run the mission to unlock the "schematic" or w/e. Dismantle an exotic, get a "Spirit Shard of 'X Exotic'". Get some arbitrary number of shards (3? 5? 10?) to make the full spirit. Get 2 spirits to craft the item. Create an inventory slot similar to the Engram Tracker and have it track all of your shards. Easy day. Although I do like the guaranteed drops from GM Exision idea

Done farming them. Over 100 on my hunter and still haven’t seen all the perks synthoceps being the main one I want and haven’t got a single one with that perk ON ANY CLASS

As a solo player who doesn’t like to use a mic unless truly necessary, I can’t understand why they would hide the exotic class item behind a coop mission that REQUIRES a mic

Man, this has been the most frustrating thing in the game. Looking at these numbers, the discouragement is even greater. I honestly think it's unacceptable that an item that's so hard to get, with so many different combination possibilities, doesn't have protection against duplicates. Very frustrating!

How about this. Make the class items craftable and you unlock the perks by acquiring a class item with those perks once. Sure would help the vault too.

So the one change that I think would be nice but I could see it make the Dual Destiny mission useless in the long term is: Make the Class Item a craftable item with a unlock feature similar to Whisper or Outbreak where as you have the perks unlocked, via the Dual Destiny mission or from completing the first few Pathfinders a week, we can slot in the Spirit we want at a cost of materials. This way we could cut down on #1 needing so many vault spots for each class and #2 getting duplicate rolls.

I partly agree with you, but I think there might be a solution that is tailored more to the current state of the game: 1. Increase Drop rates for Overthrow Events (not by a large margin) 2. Split the Perk pool between the Overthrow areas (First Column) 3. Split the Perk pool between the Overthrow events (second column) The idea is, to be able to target farm faster, and give meaning to what events you pick when doing overthrow. As Bungie, I would keep the distribution a secret, so the community can optimize and find good ways to get to the drops (Normal chests should be untouched imo) The aim is similar to your idea: Mission>any other way of farming it in terms off class items per hour, just with a higher chance of your desired roll. Completionists would still spend ages farming for all class items, but people with a specific build in mind could target farm solo. Additionally the Exotic Mission should have at least three Class items to pick from AND have reduced Duplicate options (making it the best farm)

I also think it would be a good idea to be able to focus one column of perks, that way you can always know that you'll get at least one perk that is wanted

As a solo player I haven’t even touched the mission.

Calling it now… I say by sometime near the 3rd episode they have it In Rahool and you can focus it like other exotics. You’ll still have the rng but you’ll have to have the exotic engrams for it

Why not just have the option to focus these at rahool for 2 shards and an engram? And for that matter, why can’t exotic engrams at base have a chance to drop a class item same as any other exotic?

something i'm surprised i haven't seen anyone talking about is a fix by way of a double perk drop. in a vacuum, my idea was to buff the acquisition rate from higher difficulty loot sources, like overthrow chests, but give Dual Destiny a guaranteed double perk selection as though it were an adept raid weapon. it would cut the RNG down significantly, but not by so much that it loses it's luster. it may even provide a new chase, in getting four good perks likened unto two godrolls in one drop. not sure if that's even possible under the armor framework Bungie has, but they made the Monte Carlo catalyst work through great effort, and the Aeon armor kinda does a similar thing, so i'd give them the benefit of the doubt

Thank you for crunching the numbers for us to accurately quantify how bad the situation has been. I sincerely hope bungie hears this and makes changes.

I've been farming non-stop since the Dual Destiny double exotic was revoked, farming chests at the 'Pale Heart.' After saving up to 78 unique exotics between my vault and shared inventory, I already have pretty much the most wanted ones. Of course, there are still some left to get. After a lot of runs, I decided to make my own little spreadsheets for a few runs I did, and also farm Ergo Sums along the way. I ended up with 12-minute runs, getting one exotic by looting chests at the Pale Heart with an average of about 30 chests per exotic. Of course, that was during my lucky runs; there were cases where I went even to 72-82 chests, taking around 35 minutes for those runs. Why did I do this? Because at the end of the day, just farming Dual Destiny, being the fastest way, only awards one single exotic, while running the Pale Heart rewards me with Banshee engrams, reputation = lumen, drops, as well as some random drops from the world loot pool like 'Crux Termination,' where I got my desired god roll and all the Ergo Sums I wanted so far. So yes, Dual Destiny is the fastest, but not the optimal. When you consider all the time you will have to keep running Overthrow for a while after you get those rolls, I feel like farming in the Pale Heart with or without a macro is the fastest way overall to get various things at the same time. Is it fun? Of course not. I'm so bored of it that I want some changes like the ones proposed by Mactics in his video. I even thought of a crafted exotic class item: when you get one exotic class item with your desired perk in column one, some kind of extract pattern like a red border could consume the exotic. Then, another one with your desired perk in column two could be consumed to craft a new one with consumable perks at the Enclave or something like that."

A few things come to mind to improve the experience. Once you have gotten a class item with a perk you are looking for, allow it to function like Aeon Swift where you can select your desired functionality in each slot. You still have to grind to get a class item with the perk you want, but once you get it, you have it forever. If not selectable, have it be a (limited) reward each week for completing Pale Heart Pathfinder, maybe something like three drops a week just to ease that grind a little. Finally, maybe adding it as an item with a CHANCE to drop at the end of an Overthrow completion. Is a 10% drop rate unreasonable? I don't think that's outlandish. I feel like this has been a hot button issue with the community and am confident we will see changes in the near future to buff the drop rate.

An idea i had, is whenever you complete dual destiny, you are given a class item that is disabled by default and has multiple perks per column, you can "lock in" whatever perks you want, after doing that you cannot change your roll.

Having one in the Pale Heart Pathfinder would be nice too

I desperately hope that Bungie allows us to transmog the cloak because the only armor that looks good with it is the prismatic armor from the battle pass

Doing something like the monuments of triumphs in tower. You then bring two exotics plus an exotic class enegram obtained from the duel mission To a location, then you basically merge them with one perk you want and the other perk is random(to keep a little grind).

Hunters, Titans and Warlocks need only one exotic class item. We farm for exotic mods and can choose two to equip at a time. The more mods we unlock the more combinations we can create. Best part of all is you don't have dozens of class items in your vault now. Why didn't Bungie think of this to begin with?

Having grinded both the mission and pale heart, and having a 60% duplicate drop rate, I am done grinding it (and still dont have the drops that I want). I understand your solution, but I still think that its not the best approach. Because it doesnt help with the biggest issue with how exotic class items, vault space needed to hold these rolls. I think that the better approach would be to have one class item, with ability to unlock the exotic perks for it through dual destiny (or other activities) by earning exotic materials that you can craft into the class item. I already have 6-7 class items on my character, in addition to 2-3 standard class items to swap in for different activities (with raid mod slots or rep boosts). I used to never have any class items in my vault, but now I have quite a few, and need to save infusion fuel when a powerful drops as a class item to be able to bring my next class item up to 2000. The concept of the exotic class items was good, but the implementation was very short sighted and poor.

I agree with everything here, but how is no one talking about how exotic class items being a selling point of the final shape, only to be locked behind a duo mission on a solo instance destination. I feel like the problem starts there, and then moves out towards the rng.

I am more inclined to some of the comments suggesting crafting wherein you can breakdown a drop and unlock the spirits (or maybe a choice?) and use them to craft a roll. OR something akin to Aeons wherein you do the same thing, but you can swap perks to your heart's content without having to craft different rolls (this would solve the inventory/vault issue). Another option is following what ritual playlists do and have the number of ghost resets give you increased perks per column. Additionally, the assumption here is that Bungie does not add any more perks to the pool. Considering Bungie wants to keep expanding prismatic out, I wouldnt be surprised if new spirits find their way into the drop table for this armor in some sort of refresh. Even a single new perk in each column takes the chances of your ideal combination from 1/64 to 1/81.

Another solution could be focusing them at Rahool. As we unlock class items organically, we could unlock perks to focus based on the perks on our organically found class items. And to make it less OP, we could focus only one perk of our choice while the other is still up to RNG. For example, if I complete Dual Destiny and receive a caliban-verity roll, I now unlock the ability to focus a ‘caliban-random’ OR ‘random-verity’ class item at rahool.

I didn’t see the solution for solo players getting these besides comments stating ‘ it is a MMO blah blah blah’. How the fix then is make them available like any other rng type of exotic drop. They were teased in trailers and at that point we should have been informed on how to get them. “ here is the activity for obtaining......”

I like that you brought a different angle to the discussion. Activity variety is so helpful in avoiding burnout. It makes sense thematically to have them drop from the Pale Heart destination, but it also makes sense to first "discover" (unlock) them in the Pale Heart, then be able to get more elsewhere. I have a different issue with these Class Items: vault space. It's a lot of items to store, and it's a pain to find the one I'm looking for, even with tools like DIM. I would like a solution that addresses storage as well as duplicate drops. Two ideas come to mind for me: - Make them craftable, so I can "pull" any combination I want without needing to keep everything in case a new build becomes relevant. - Change the Exotic effects into mods (like Aeon gauntlets), and make drop sources give mods instead of additional copies. Need to be able to pull from Collections with this change.

In my head, key to this is to retain engagement while reducing the load on players to get the perfect roll. Exotic class item drops with random perks, this is your roll, buuuuut you can unlock perks through engagement (or maybe intrinsic quests?) that allows you to slot a new perk using endgame materials, kind of like reshaping weapons. You get intrinsic drops in the same way as catalysts, as random drops from activities, and have to unlock them by doing the intrinsic quests before you can slot them into your exotic class piece. This incentivises re-engagement with content as bungo can force engagement for unlocks, and even choose the activities we have to do to unlock. Doing it like crafting incentivises getting more than one exotic class item, because you'll want to keep the rolls you like available in your vault without having to recraft each time. If you set it up so that random rolled perks don't unlock the corresponding craftable intrinsic, there would still be some benefit to random rolls as you could roll certain intrinsics you don't have craftable yet. So say you're a titan, and want a star-eater/ inmost light roll, you do dual destiny and roll a inmost/ synthoceps. In a crucible game, you get a star-eater intrinsic drop, which unlocks by getting 100 super kills and completing dual destiny (or something, haven't thought too much about it). You do your intrinsic quest, and can now slot spirit of the star-eater, which costs 100k glimmer, 3 ascendant shards, and an exotic cipher. You now have a star-eater/ inmost light roll, but haven't unlocked syntho or inmost for crafting. If you wanted a different roll, you'd have to unlock new intrinsics, or get lucky on your 1/64 roll.

I agree with the more sources solution big time, BUT that all still sounds like a slog for somebody who plays literally any other games. I think they should allow crafting. This seems like the perfect opportunity and the exact reason they added crafting to the game in the first place. Maybe after I get 10 class item drops, that unlocks crafting. Then just like usual, I have to level the armor up to unlock different perks. Since it's exotic, you still have to put something in place to slow the grind down, so maybe it's just a one and done frame. You get your 10 drops, you craft your exotic item, then you need another 10 in order to craft another? IDK but you're right something has to change. Trying (mostly your) fun new builds is the only reason I ever play this game anymore. So many new builds out there rely on something that I just don't have time to grind for. Let me unlock a blueprint and work towards the exact build I want.

Another thing I would change is the ability to transmog any class item that I’ve unlocked with the exotic class item. I can’t be the only one that has wanted wear a complete armor set without sacrificing an exotic armor ability.

How is the simplest solution not often spoken of? Simply add a focus stat on the ghost for class exotics, as one might do for discipline or resilience, so that you can predict at least one of the two traits that will be included. Still would take up to a dozen attempts with dupes at current, but anyone can buckle in and push toward that goal with some fun still to be had. Want Hunter class item with Caliban? Then you can focus that "stat" or attribute, so that until you remove it, every class exotic will have that in the column. Easy peasy.

I was/am hoping that at some point they “combine” the exotic class items into one item with selectable perks. You’d still have to grind out the combination you want, but it reduces the amount of items you have sitting in your vault. I was also hoping that there would end up being a series of secret items in the exotic mission that would allow you to “pick” a perk on the class item you get. A fun way to do it would be to offer a left side perk and a right side perk and you would be guaranteed one of those two perks. It still retains the random drops, but gives you the chance to focus in if you’re going for a specific roll. That said, I need them to come out with better ornaments before I really start caring about it. The hunter cape is way to much for me and I hate using it. Hoping they dump some ornaments on us before I’m able to get the Inmost/Gyrfalcon and Renewal/Cyrtarachne rolls I’m still trying to farm out. Still can’t believe my luck getting the Galanor/StarEater roll!

Sorry if already mentioned... why not allow us to focus class items with generic exotic engrams through Rahool?

Pretty sure they stealth nerfed the drop rate from Roaming’s chests when they fixed the double drop glitch, they were dropping every rotation of all three sectors, now I have to rotate 2-3x before one drops

I haven’t even farmed onslaught killed me mentally I don’t have the will powr to get fucked by rng anymore

The change that I've had rolling around in my mind is to have a perk focus system. The idea itself has a vendor (likely Ghost in the Pale Heart) with the ability to guarantee a single perk on any exotic class item you get from the Dual Destiny mission. This would take every drop from a 1/64 to a 1/8 with your focused perk guaranteed. This way you would be practically guaranteed the role you want within 16 runs of Dual Destiny taking the total number of runs down to about 128 in order to get every role. But the main draw of this change is that it allows people to more easily get the role/s that they are looking for.

When the exotic class items came out I completed Dual Destiny with a friend and then just went to farm the pale heart chests . I got liars calibans on my SECOND CHEST. I want to get Apotheosis Star Eaters for my Warlock and I don’t even have the heart to start hunting for it because I just know I used up a lifetime’s worth of luck on my Hunter.

It was a bad idea locking them behind a co-op activity. Solo players are used to weapons being exclusive to multiplayer activities, but not _exotic armor._ What makes it worse is that Bungie didn't give anyone a heads up, so everyone assumed we'd be able to get them the normal way (i.e. finish the campaign on legendary or whatever). I'd wager that a huge chunk of the playerbase will never even obtain the exotic class item to begin with. And the ones who do will probably give up on finding a god roll because of the terrible RNG.

This is the reason why I have not even bothered trying to get the Exotic Class Item. It is not worth it.

One thing that gripes me is the storage space. Why only 700? If i want all of the exotic class items i have to spend just shy of half my space to keep them.

Regardless of the RNG fix there is always going to be a second big issue and that is there is 64 combos for each class requiring you to store up o 64-192 class items as you are chasing your rolls. Even 64 is to many to keep in your vault. Simple solution that works with lore and keeps people running dual destiny: Have an artifact at the end of dual destiny that uses the powers of darkness to remember (Like deep sight from the Relic on mars) and Light that will materialize this memory…. That Artifact at the end of dual destiny requires that you have completed dual destiny but then lets you re-Craft an Exotic Class item with perks you have already unlocked. This requires you to run dual destiny or obtain the class item through the other means quite a few times still (but a lot less than a few hundred) but then it let’s you be safe keeping a few roles you like or are testing with a build and then recraft one with perks you already unlocked after another run of Dual Destiny. This would also help our vaults from bulging.

I feel like the most realistic option is just 1-to-1 bad luck protection and keep drop sourced limited. Since it requires the purchase of TFS there's no way they'll add it to anything that a free player can do.

Mactics, you should genuinely make a petition for this change. love the vids

You pretty much hit the full nail on the head here. While the idea of being able to 'unlock' perks and craft one's own class item I feel is more appealing (as I've seen that around a bunch), the real reason these things feel so incredibly bad is just how ridiculously strict the sources are for something that has so much variance to it. I get wanting to get people to run Dual Destiny at least once to unlock the privilege of seeing them in other places, but why is the ONLY other place a friggen 1% drop chance from PATROL chests?!? These things are so incredibly bad I've fully resorted to just waiting for them to be given to me by running a chest farming macro. I am a massively below average rng man, and I spent an entire week grinding Dual destiny with a friend, on top of an additional week doing Overflow chest grinding when said friend got everything they wanted by session three and I felt like an ass asking them for more. I still, after all of that, + an additional 80+ class items (so far) from macro grinding, haven't seen Inmost Light/Star Eaters (my main desired roll since day one) on my warlock. This isn't even to bring up the other classes, who have sat languishing with 'whatever the heck they got in the first few runs' and nothing else. This sh!t is terrible, and actively broke me so hard I full left the game beyond macro grinding and haven't played it since. Shadow of the Erdtree helped with that, but it really just showed the contrast of 'ohh this is a game that respects me AND my time and actually gives me avenues to succeed via exploration and guaranteed item finding. Gosh this is such a breath of fresh air compared to the literal DAYS of my life I will never get back that literally yielded me nothing but garbage'. I never in a million years would have thought I'd ever us a macro, 'why not just play the game forhead?' I always thought. But when the game is this unfun, this unmotivated to be fun, and is so bad it want's me to make sure that I hate both Duel Destiny AND overflow with a white hot passion (which I do, both are boring as sin and the absolute worse piles of trash to me now and I never want to see them again), then fine, I'll let the computer do it. At least it can't get bored.

They should make it simple. Make it like Aeons. Once you unlock the “mod” you can just swap the slot out. This means you only need to actually have 1 item on you at all times, giving you so much more freedom of choice for class builds, vault and inv space. Anywhere with locked load outs / not swap would still be in affect so it’s not going to “break the game” anywhere.

I wish I could get just one. Unfortunately my job and taking care of my mom with dementia only limits me to about 3 hours of gaming a day. All of which I could get pulled away from the game at any moment. This means no raids and extremely hard dungeons. Give me a way to get this and I'll be happy. I don't wanna gimme. Give me a super hard solo quest... Please. I have hundreds maybe thousands of hours and over a thousand dollars in Destiny. I think I deserve an exotic class item damnit.

They should add a legendary version where you either get double drops or you get to choose one of the perks for one column, the other column would still be rng so it would still need to be farmed. Yeah rng sucks, but i think if you put these two changes in place it would significantly help compared to what we have now.

One element you didn't cover is once you have all 192 class items how do you store them? What should be done is that once a perk is unlocked you should be able to slot it at will

To help limit the number of items sitting in the vault, I would like to see an exotic class item that you can edit. You still have to get lucky and have the specific "spirit of" aspect drop that you want to be able to slot into the exotic, but you only have to collect 48 aspects across all three characters rather than trying to get 192 individual class items. That's over a quarter of your vault space.

Ive dismantled so many hunter cloaks with verity or coyote perks. It's always one or the other. I just want anything with gyrfalcons😮‍💨

I made a google doc for ergo sum. (still have them all in my vault) All I wanted was Solar/Wave/WP it took me 80 something tries. I do NOT want to farm the class item that many times let alone for all three classes. I'm tired of being "worn out" for playing a game I truly enjoy.

I agree with a lot of this video. I think that we should greatly restrict the chances of getting dupes down to a 1 in 10 chance, give a 15 or 25 percent chance of getting a roll anywhere else you get exotics to spawn, and maybe after 10 runs per week we can get a 'border' that will let us select a guaranteed rool on one of the perks while the other is random. It would be cool and then they could add that every 20 runs you could do that. So basically in a week if you did 40 runs you would get 3 'borders' to select half of an exotic class item.

Best idea I’ve heard was to make it function like Aeons where once you’ve unlocked a perk, it’s now selectable trait that can be swapped out like mods.

Just make them craftable, Im a regular player and i've managed 3 runs on one characture, i've given up on getting a roll I want, don't have time for it.

The mission sucks too. This should be a solo mission.

One solution would be to add a ghost mod that you can equip that guarantees a particular perk when getting an exotic class item. I imagine it might be hard to programmically do that since not all perks are the same for each class. The overall game system would have to load in the mod options on your ghost(s) when choosing your class, and also take that into account when opening a chest with an exotic class item as a reward. But I think this would make it less problematic if Bungie could pull this off.

Someone else mentioned it, but i agree with them, have it drop from path finder. Like once per week, you have a guaranteed drop of getting the exotic class item for each character. And then if you want do more pathfinder the drops goes down to 75%, 50%, then 25% and stays at the percent.

The sad thing is that the only way Bu gie learns is when the player base drops, they start laying off people, and Daddy has to intervene. Oh well. 🙄

I still haven't had time to sit down and find someone I can communicate with to get through the exotic mission three separate times just to unlock the f'ing exotic class item, let alone farm the class item(s). Yeah, everyone says the exotic mission is "fun" but the f'ing game is a looter-shooter. I don't want raid mechanics to have to unlock a piece of armor unless it is in a raid.

Here's an idea. Upon completing the campaign, you get the exotic class item, but with no aspects. Eacu run of Dual Destiny nets you 2 of the 16 exotic aspects you don't already have (so no dupes), which you can then mix and match on your exotic class item whenever you want. Kinda like the Aeon arm exotics, but with 2 outta 16 instead of 1 outta 3. And boom, now you only have to do that mission 8 times on each character. Maybe less if you get lucky and the aspects you want drop sooner.

I think something that could help tremendously is to fix the core issue of the class item, that being that people only want very few of the 64 combinations. More synergy between the two perks that lead to a new gameplay loop would revive the class item entirely

The point is the GATE to getting the first class item. Don’t lock the class item ability to drop behind a mission that the majority of players will never do. Allow exotic class items to drop for the first time and repeat thereafter from any source.

destiny youtubers trying to make a 2 minutes long video challenge IMPOSSIBLE

100% lightfall’s biggest and least talked about problem was poor loot incentive. There was so much rich content with little or no incentive to run it, seasonal legend activities that as far as your arsenal was concerned, were worth running once or zero times. TFS took this in the other direction with massive rng bruteforcing rather than nonexistent incentive. The game really needs something like a flexible pinnacle reward- like a currency to buy things like exotic class items, harmonizers, ciphers, weapon focusing. A pinnacle currency would easily flex the entire game into whatever new hotness the game cooks, and would revolutionize the reason to log on. More reason to bring friends into the great, barely explored content of the game. When the loot dries up we leave, and with just some tweaking it doesn’t have to be this way. The opposite is true here, people are getting burnt out doing unbelievable amounts of dual destiny and overload, but as demonstrated will do it because gamers care about loot!! The Crota and cooperative focus examples are exactly what I’m talking about, make the content evergreen rather than disposable. Whetstone and deep dives were things I was dying to do more than once but there was no need to. Any old dungeon is a sore one for me too (or even new, why would you run warlord’s if you’ve got a good kindness and bloodline). Love the content but the rewards are bare or nonexistent to begin with. With TFS, we have the loot chase, now Bungie, just bring it to the game at large instead of this tiny, ad nauseam corner

They need to make it a single exotic item (per class) with unlock-able perks. If you get a roll with that perk to drop it unlocks the perk in that column. That would also make it so when you get a horse drawing to drop it wouldn’t be a complete L, which would make the drops you do get twice as likely to be exciting to get. Put it on a 12 hour cooldown or make it where only your ghost in the pale heart can “reshape” it. It would save so much vault space and still allow you to have “every roll”.

My idea would be to enable random drops from all sources (including the dual destiny mission, so a chance at a double drop after the first run), but to enable them, you have to run dual destiny once per week. So at reset on Tuesdays, you'll have to get one run in before random drops are enabled. That way, you don't kill the exotic mission, and people can still grind it if they want to.

{Context: I've farmed the patrol zone for at least thirty hours total, the estimation of getting around 4 an hour seems accurate and it is truly mindnumbing, worse than farming kills for any exotic catalyst} Let them be focused at Rahool once the item has been unlocked for that class. Offer our dear cryptarch an exotic engram [perhaps multiple?] and [insert resource(s) here] and be given a roll of the class item, simple as that. Without any mercy system, the low cost I propose here makes getting the roll you want much more reasonable for a player not farming the patrol zone or mission itself, and also adds a little extra joy to those blue moon exotic engrams from the random dreg, now giving you a surprise step closer to the next roll of the item. it also means that the exotic rewards from the vendor tracks have new purpose for the players with a perfect roll of every meaningful exotic already, giving them a reason once more to actually be desired.

Allowing them as focused engrams from Rahool would be amazing. Also (bear with me) you could make them craftable? Get 5 (or more) red border versions, then take it to the Enclave. Acquiring levels in the item would just require wearing it (or boosting with Cores) and higher levels unlocks more perks in each column. Make it 1 new perk per 3-5 levels, but keep each level up requiring the same exp.

Great idea! I do think the idea of potentially getting 3 exotic class item drops from GM excision is a bit of a stretch but all other suggestions seem more than reasonable to me. I myself try to acquire all the loot/triumphs in the game and you hit the nail on the head when you expressed how discouraging it is for players like myself when we start to calculate how long it is going to take to collect all of these exotic class items.

I watched your video and remembered with delight "Chalice of Opulence" from "The Menagerie". It contained blue, red, green and purple runes, through which you could get the desired loot. Imagine how this can be implemented with "Exotic Class Items". For example: guardians are in search of runes throughout the world of Destiny, these runes can be crafted into a “charged particle”, which will be responsible for the desired perk in the “Exotic Class Item” (by combining runes with each other or for example with armor, as if you were taking green and red runes and combine with "synthoceps" and would receive the "spirit of synthoceps"). Then, after crafting two “charged particles,” the guards go through the “two destinies” mission, where at the end they combine these two “charged particles” and receive an “Exotic Class Item” with the necessary perks. Previously, the bungee had a fantasy, but now this fantasy hit the 20-minute passage of "Two Fates" and 40 minutes of running through chests.

Thank GOD I got my preferred rolls before too long, can’t imagine how frustrating chasing this for extended periods of time would be

What they should do is make it so if you get a drop with a certain perk,that perk becomes 'unlocked' on the class item for you to be able to slot in whenever. Make it like perks on a gun, able to swap to another perk that's available to you. That way you only need to get 8 perks on each side, and then you'd be able to swap to any perks you want. This also alleviates the issue that was not brought up in this video of that storage issue this item has created. 64 class items per character to have to store is ridiculous. This solution would mean you'd literally only need 1 item per character and can just swap perks as you unlock them.

With how people are struggling to get their rolls, it makes me so grateful that I have gotten a Heart of Inmost Light and Star Eater Scales for my Warlock and Titan and I've done probably a dozen Dual Destiny runs in total.

I think a really clean fix would be to make the exotic class item unlock from Dual Destiny, then let us obtain the individual perks from overthrow chests, dual destiny, strikes or whatever with escalating chance from higher level content and let us swap them out like a crafted gun. Having entire duplicate items for such small differences is just silly and probably why they made the crafting system in the first place. Spamming one mission over and over just feels like a step backwards. Even a band-aid patch of adding dupe protection would sting a little from all the time we've spent farming, but it would be nice.

Allow class items drops to be purchased with Ghost engrams. Say 25 engrams per drop. After collecting all red border guns this loot source becomes pointless. Adding this would make them relevant again to active players.

I think they should add a collections tab that allows us to just pull the rolls we aren't using whenever. That's alot of vault space being used up over 3 characters. Considering we very rarely get more vault space I think this should be implemented. Another way is to maybe make it after you've collected all the possible combinations you can then just keep one class item and swap the perks from there. I personally like the collections idea better.

Idea: Return Three of Coins from destiny 1 Where consuming a ToC grants a small chance of an exotic class item drop after completing any activity. A 7.5% chance of getting an item class per each crucible or gambit match, nightfall, onslaught, weekly master story mission, legendary DoE and having an increased chance of 15% after completing any raid or dungeon on master difficulty. Xur could sell the ToC just like he still does in D1 and for a reduced cost of 3 strange coins. Of course, the cap for strange coins would have to be removed and there wouldn't be cap for how many ToC you can hold

It would also be nice to be able to, by co suming 2 class items (and a lot of mateirials, like 2 or 3 exotic cyphers) and deleting them you could pick one perk of each class item deleted, fusing the two of them in one class item that's of you interest. This would make exotic class items that aren't the roll you're looking forward still be useful.

I think the best solution would be to implement a duplicate drop protection and a optional reward for the pathfinder. Every week you can get EITHER ergo sum or class items from the pale heart pathfinder rewards. After completing the pathfinder you can choose what reward you want up to 2 times. Combined with the duplicate protection this would drastically decrease farm time and would make everyone happy

One more solution could be that if you acquire 2 exotic class items but the first perk you want is on the first one and the second one you want is on the second slot of the other there’s should be a system Where you can combine the 1st and 2nd perk from each of the class items…

I think a unique option to help alleviate the headache when farming a particular role would be: Once per week, via Ghost/Rahul, guardians can turn in an exotic cypher+exotic engram+an exotic armor to get a class item with a guranteed roll determined by whichever exotic armor piece was used for this. I.e. if you turn in cypher+engram+synthoceps = a exotic class item with synthoceps perk +random perk. While not the most ideal considering the materials needed, it would help narrow down the drop chances of the second perk to get the ideal roll you are looking for. Great video and good talking points. I hope Bungie looks more into this and comes up with a better way to farm these items.

Every time you get one of the class items, the perks that are rolled on it are “added” to a aeon-type perk deal where we can choose them from a list of previously acquired perks, so it’d continuously grow larger, so we don’t need to have a gorrillian umber of class items, but one, which we can mix and match whenever we feel like it. Think like how the exotic perks for craft able exotics drop when you do like, expert/master Whsiper or whatever. This, plus being able to get the items through pathfinders, and as ritual rewards, is what I think would make it a much, MUCH better way to grind them out.

A nice idea would be to make it so you unlock the aspects with luck so you can just have one exotic class item be able to change the aspect on each side. This would also solve my problem with the exo class item clustering my inventory. So you need only one class item and the loadout save what aspects you use in said class item. This would also make it easier for more aspects to be added to the exo class item if that ever happens.

I've been thinking about this for a few days and had some interesting ideas. Starting off with some Dual Destiny adjustments: 1st: Add double loot drops at the end of the mission 2nd: Add an expert version that has adds a chance for the exotic class items to drop with double perks on each column 3rd: Add triumphs that increase the chance for double perks to drop (not the number of perks, but the chance that each item will have double perks). Now for excision: 1st: Make it drop an exotic class item at the end with two on Grandmaster difficulty 2nd: Make the ones on Grandmaster have a chance to drop with double perks just like Dual Destiny. 3rd: Again, GM triumphs for a higher chance at double perks Now lastly for the Pale Heart in general: 1st: higher drop chance on Expert/Master Lost Sector chests and from the final Overthrow chest 2nd: a bit higher chance to drop from chests in general 3rd: Way lower chance to get an exotic class item with the same perk combo as one you already have across all sources On that note, can we please get more Ergo Sums from Pale Heart Pathfinders?? I still don't have a single one with wolfpack or perfect fifth

I think that being able to craft them based of of perks you have already unlocked solves the issue completely and still requires a grind and you’ll still be excited to unlock new perks

I always liked the idea of pulling perks out of a drop. For example if you got dragons shadow and worm husk. There was away of pulling the dragons shadow perk and infusing it into another class item. There would be a cost to do it but that way the rng wouldn’t be such a problem.

I have 2 theories, but either or may just not fit into the current game coding. 1. Dual Destiny completions after the first one (or a Heroic difficulty version or something) drop double perks class items. It would obviously need to be coded in such a way that changing perks mid combat can't be exploited, but that way one drop would effectively give you 4 regular drops which is ALSO nicer on vault space. Option 2. Make it craftable with the individual perks getting red borders or something. Maybe even from their root exotic armour pieces?

I dont mind using lfg for harder content at all. What locked me out of it was the two player aspect and the fact that I play without a mic. Three player activities can get around the communication issues, especially since i can still hear the other players. I just can't talk back. Honestly, I'm underwhelmed by primatic so far anyway. I still haven't bothered to unlock all of it. Running solar and Hazardous Propulsion, with Sunshot, and crafted rolls of The Call and Apex Predator with triple solar surge. Honestly, a very fun and effective build.

If drops are completely random (ie. a 1 in 64 chance you get the class item you want) you need 44 runs to have a 50% chance of getting the item at least once. If you change it so there are no repeat drops, then you “only” need 32 runs to have a 50% chance of getting it.