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I'm so tired of drowning in the undertow, with my back against the wall, because the voices in my head are watching the world burn

15:17 "They write the same lyrics about being caught in the undertow or whatever" I bursted out laughing 😂

Early Killswitch, Parkway and Everytime I Die was a fun time to be alive

"It's lost all it's connection to the hardcore scene" - is the nail on the head. Metalcore used to have an unhinged quality to the music, which is completely lost in modern metalcore.

Adam D, and Joey Sturgis are truly the 2000's 2010's metalcore heroes

When he said “metalcore now feels like music by guitarists for guitarists” I felt that 😅

Modern metalcore is to classic metalcore what hair metal was to thrash. Classic metalcore were a bunch of metal dudes who would sing sometimes. Now it's a bunch of instagram models who can scream sometimes.

I'm blown away by the total omission of Darkest Hour as pioneers of the genre.

Another thing that really hurts modern metalcore, in my opinion, is the current way that metal is mixed/mastered. Using the same guitar tones, same plastic drum sound, lack of low end, and especially everything being quantized and edited completely sucks the life out of these bands. 2000s metalcore wasn't particularly raw, but it at least had some breathing room and character. Even if a band has a unique sound now, the sterile production usually just hides it anyway

Hardcore/Metal fan takes: 2000: Nu-Metal sucks 2010: Deathcore sucks 2020: Metalcore sucks

Finn saying what I've been thinking for the last 10 years. When he's right, he's right.

Modern Metalcore starter pack: •Only Black tshirts no logos •1 or 2 members with beards •warehouse music videos •BMTH is their God

The revival of As I Lay Dying and All That Remains is F'n sick, just gotta make that clear rn. 🤘

Everytime I go to a punk/hardcore/metalcore festival and watch a metalcore band I vaguely heard of I always think 'every song sounds the same from every band I saw today"

Every Punk Rock MBA video: Finn: **Goes over the history, gives a few opinions, makes us laugh and makes it clear that gatekeeping is lame** Comment section: *ultimate gatekeeping*

I would argue that there are types of breakdowns. Maybe they did come form hardcore, but Slayer's "Raining Blood," Pantera's "Domination," and Sepultura's "Dead Embryonic Cells" has breakdowns as well. Due to them all coming from thrash, it may still technically be true that breakdowns are a punk/hardcore element these songs featured.

I don't know anything about today's bands, but I will always love Killswitch & As I Lay Dying.

Love that you brought brand archetypes in this. Really makes the channel live up to it's name

Haha I spit out my coffee when he said “caught in the undertow “🤣🤣🤣

Yesssss!! I agree 100%! The last few years of "metalcore" should be renamed to nu-metalcore. So many of these newer bands do not even have blast beats or 2step rhythms. It's all a heavier style of Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, Breaking Benjamin, Disturbed, Korn, etc.

Good to see Chimaira in this. Great band that flew under the radar compared to their peers.

To be completely honest, I am almost 35 and I still love metalcore to this day. This combined with numetal was what brought me into metal in the first place and even though if I’m not into numetal anymore, I regularly enjoy metalcore quite often, and I don’t get the fuss about thehating

That's what I love about Hanabie so much, they have that hardcore element and it has a very strong presence in their music, ESPECIALLY live.

Fellow old heads! Listen to **Boundaries**! These young men are playing some metalcore that harkens back to the music we grew up with. The folks in Dying Wish are also playing that old school style of metalcore and deserve your attention. I wanted to find new bands to explore instead of just listening to as I lay dying, kSe, IKTPQ, or old parkway and so far these two are the best

"Massugah with Linkin Park choruses." I've never heard it put any better. Modern Metalcore bores me to tears

bro i love metalcore im a certified metalcore enjoyer if metalcore has 100 fans im one of them if metalcore has 1 fan its me if metalcore has 0 fans im dead

Man. You nailed the description of what’s wrong with modern metalcore. For years I’m like wtf is wrong with this and why can’t I listen to it no matter how hard I try?

Careerism turns everything into a product and to sell a product you make it as safe as possible. I'm not particularly interested in safe music, but to each their own.

As i lay dying: an ocean between us. Is and always will be peak metalcore to me, albumn came out when i was 10 and it was the first thing that got me into metal

New bands to listen to if you miss classic metalcore: - Sanction - Vatican - Balmora - Dying Wish - Foreign hands - Cross of Dissbelief - See No Evil There's a pretty big revival around this stuff happening with zoomers. There's even a band in my town called XAblazeX that sound just like Walls of Jerico.

Definitely one of the best videos you’ve made in a while. Felt more authentic, like your older content. Appreciated the insights based on your personal experiences and the marketing analysis.

We need more drop C and drop D 6 string guitar bands to keep it alive, Ill even allow drop B.

Man that Chimaira Pure Hatred clip was a blast from the past. I remember seeing them live in '09ish with Lacuna Coil, Killswitch Engage, and Disturbed. Great show.

Finn, why don’t people talk about Rise Against? I love them and think they have a very very solid 4 album run. Would love if you did a dedicated vid on them

it's gotten to the point where your "metalcore problems" videos are actually more entertaining than metalcore itself. 🙃

Idc what anyone says, meshuggah was doing metalcore breakdowns in the early 90's 👀

16:55 I'm definitely gonna be that guy and point out that's 43% Burnt, not Destro's Secret.

Critic: Metalcore isn't 100% perfect on anything metal core touches. R/metalcore: emotional keyboard warrior rage

That entire first Vision of Disorder album is a masterpiece, I listened the hell out of that back in the day and highly recommend it, that first song Element is a banger! 🔥

16:53 .. that's not Destro's Secret... that's 43% Burnt

If the original metalcore was the combination of metal and hardcore, then the current metalcore is the mixture of metalcore and nu metal

I don't agree. There are lots of great up-and-coming " revival core ' bands. Boundaries. Wristmeetrazor, Serration, Foreign Hands, Mouth For War, A Dozen Black Roses , Seeyouspacecowboy etc.

I think you made a good point a while back that when nerds get into things, they ruin them. Metalcore is filled with nerds and dorks making the music and it’s overly clinical and formulaic Edit: I disagree that this is what the fans want. I think that’s why Knocked Loose has gained a lot of traction lately, because they bring the hardcore influence back into it. Or maybe Drain with their thrashy hardcore riffs (speaking of, a video on crossover thrash would be cool)

Hardcore-heavy metalcore is absolutely on top of the genre right now, what are you saying?? There will always be bands that'll off-shoot and progress the sound of the genre, but they are by no means becoming the sole face of it.

Dying Wish is one of the most recent metalcore bands that give you the 2010's metalcore vibes and feels. Theyre great.

Listen to Dying Wish, Boundries, Foreign Hands, wristmeetsrazor, and Great American Ghost. Old school metalcore is still going strong, you just have to dig

I'm still waiting when somebody will invent gothcore😁😁😁😁

Man I love Cauldron. Great vid! May pickup my guitar and play around some catchy riffs after this

I so fully agree with this. The only connection to "core" in the genre now is breakdowns. Everything else is kind of Extreme Metal Lite™ with melodic, clean sung choruses. And most of the time, those choruses are just wedged in because that's the blueprint for metalcore songs, not because they actually fit the song. I know there are exceptions and current metalcore bands still creating great music, but overall it's been overcome with mediocrity and paint-by-numbers songwriting

Metalcore has become a simulacra. A copy of a copy of a copy.

If you listen to Invent, Animate's new stuff and think there's not much emotion in it, then you have no ears.

Knocked Loose, Code Orange, Jesus Peace, Vein. This is a very good example that hardcore and metalcore maintain a powerful connection. And they are very popular now.

Killswitch is always gonna be the best for me. This makes me think how sick it is whenever Jesse and Howard appear on tracks together. Jesse bringing the hardcore sound and Howard bringing the operatic Dio sound. And of course Adam D the genius with the antics. The perfect blend that gives me so much emotional response in their sound and I don’t get bored of it like a lot of these newer bands sounding the same

I got into metalcore or NWOAHM in college when Killswitch Engage, Lamb of God, God forbid, Shadows Fall... etc were just coming out. I remember really being into the whole Trustkill, Victory Records roster too. I was getting into Hardcore and Metalcore at the same time and it was this cool new thing to me because I was a nu metal kid in highschool so the sounds were more extreme and it felt less gimmicky. Like a lot of other people, KsE will always be the GOAT band for me. I got into them when Jesse was the singer, but Howard is my personal favorite vocalist for that band. I don't really know who's who nowadays in metalcore, but I still will jam the classics.

Fuck that, gatekeep. Sometimes people forget that once tours over, it’s back to the stockroom at target, or answering phones at pizza hut

i mean, if you liked the songs at 11:50 and 13:08, check us out

I transitioned from Metalcore to a Deathcore enjoyer.ƪ(˘⌣˘)ʃ

I love all core music..it all has a place in the music scene

Wristmeetrazor is putting out bangers

'Metalcore lost the core part and became a sub-genre of metal', this line of yours sums up the entire video. Nearly 20 minutes saved.

Periphery accidentally ruined metalcore.

As a new englander I’ve always been a fan of the fact that we have our own genre of heavy music that though we didn’t entirely create is very heavily associated with us

Really fits your channel to bring up brand archetypes and locus of motivation to videos about hardcore.

Wage War , Fit for a king , The Devil Wears Prada and Of Mice and Men are only considered with going mainstream that they would probably switch to the style of Five Finger Death Punch or Something even more poppy if given the chance. I miss the Killswitch era of metalcore so much.

Give me Trustkill and Ferret all day long.

Thank you Finn for talking about Warped Tour and "No Rockstar Mentality" I really missed this era and the fun crabcore scene kids, you can really tell this was the last efforts of mono-culture and sense of community 🎶

I feel like this genre became a thing and evolved at the same time as my love for hardcore and metal. I'm 39. When I was 17/18 I started getting into metal and hardcore. There was nothing I wouldn't explore. I branched out from NuMetal and discovered hardcore, melodic death, thrash all of a sudden, it was like a sensory overload. Then KSE appeared. It was like the perfect blend of everything I loved. Having started with Earth Crisis, Stampin Ground and Madball, I fell in love with Hatebreed who dropped Perseverance only a few months after I discovered the band. At the same time I'd fallen in love with At The Gates, Soilwork, Bodom and In Flames (and Dimmu Borgir) whilst all the while listening to bands like Merauder. I was checking out Machine Head and Pantera and at the and time everything was suddenly evolving. And then BOOM, the NWOAHM & NWOBHM started, then metalcore was born and KSE released AOJB. For me it was the perfect blend of everything I loved. It had the heaviness of metal, the aggression and groove of hardcore and the melodies of MDM and melodic thrash. To me it was and is perfect. But now...this newer idea of metalcore to me is totally disconnected. Where are all the band that sound like Bullet, like KSE and God Forbid, like AILD? This new metalcore movement isn't hardcore x metal. It's 2000s era post-hardcore / screaming turned ultra heavy. It's not the same thing but it's still called metalcore. And everyone sounds the same. Bands do intentionally sound just like every other band. It's very sad. Sometimes you can hear the talent but I shake my head during songs thinking this would be such a good moment for a melodic riff...like where the hell have guitar leads and dual harmonies gone? Where are the breakdowns that make you want to jump around going mad which are actually catchy? Breakdowns in modern metalcore almost seem borrowed from deathcore rather than hardcore and that in itself is so far removed from hardcore breakdowns already. I am yearning for bands who loved hardcore and MDM to make metalcore. I'm tired of every band sounding like a slightly heavier The Devil Wears Prada with a girly chorus. I miss bands like The Sorrow. Nato. Early All That Remains and Unearth. Roadrunner Records had the metalcore scene covered for so long but then moved away from it. The 'Andy Sneap' sound with Arch Enemy/ATG x Hatebreed bands. Modern metalcore bands sound safe, conformist and devoid of songwriting and melodic ability. Bring back lead guitars, dual harmonies, gallops, chugs and catchy midpaced breakdowns!

I really like the production value you’ve brought to your main channel. Thanks for investing into your hustle and really elevating your catalog. Hell ya brother!

I've always been more of a thrasher / traditional metal guy, but some of my favorite albums of all time are metalcore albums. Waking the Fallen, the Fall of Ideals etc. In the 80s, Thrash bands combined Agent Orange and Sex Pistols with Accept, Venom, and Judas Priest ...and it was sick. In the 00s, Metalcore bands combined all the Hardcore bands you mentioned and Melodeath and Groove Metal ...and it was sick.

New old school metalcore bands that are actually hardcore: Adrienne, Since My Beloved, Balmora, Withpaperwings, A Mourning Star, Killing Me Softly, Azshara, Deadset, Unbrokenapologies, Razel Get Her Wings, Your Spirit Dies, Foreign Hands, A Dozen Black Roses, Simulakra, Cauldron, xclocktowerx, xServitudex, xelegyx, serration, Dying Wish, Wristmeetrazor, Seeyouspacecowboy(older stuff), memento, buriedbutstillbreathing, Serenity, Long.Way.Down.,

Sometimes I love ya Finn and sometimes you drive me nuts. But I believe your take on this is spot on

Finn, I don't know if you'll ever see this but... I LOVE these types of videos. You help me, a teenager from Serbia, understand alternative culture in America and to love these bands even more. I've been watching your videos since 2020. Keep going. ❤

I am one of these kids, metalcore even to this day is my metal…

Thanks for the video, it was well though out in a logical manner. I agree with a lot of your points. I thought It was just me when I would listen to new bands and always find myself going back to Killswitch Engage and the older albums of All That Remains. I was surprised Parkway drive didn't get an honorable mention. Perhaps Parkway Drive is more metal than metalcore. I really enjoyed the hardcore/punk aspect to metalcore back in 2008-2012. Do you have any other bands that you'd recommend from that era? Also, what i thought was interesting is that a lot of bands I liked had fit band members like Phil Labonte, lead singer from As I lay Dying. Those guys kind of went against the grain in looking like a typical scene guy back in the day. On another note, a few years ago I was doing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu with Phil Labonte and had no idea it was him because he acted like a normal person. I thought this guy looks familiar, but didn't realize it was him until he posted on the official All That Remains a page!

You had some clips of a band named Kaonashi in the video. They're amazing. Peter Rono the lead singer is a great lyricist to me and has some real relatable lyrics tapping into some cool topics, they definitely sound different in the genre to me and I hope they get their shine.

Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't say any of the new metalcore bands make me go "I need to listen to these guys" not in a bad way, they just don't make me feel anything. Bad Omens is probably an exception and even then I still haven't listened to their new stuff yet. Contrast that with new bands I love who are doing either whatever they want (Darko US) or majorly influenced by nu metal (Dropout Kings, Hacktivist)

This could also be applied to the music industry overall its very sanitized and boring

Thank you for explaining why I still think that the 2000s stuff from KsE, AILD etc is unmatched. Totally feel you!

It seems to me that the metalcore scene from the 2010s onwards has very little to do with the original incarnation of the genre and it's only called by the same name on a technicality. Maybe if people didn't think of it as "metallic hardcore" and instead something completely new, it wouldn't be as frustrating for hard-core fans

No way Finn actually said "Stafe & Sale" at the one minute mark and left it in

Burn the Priest’s self-titled 1999 album is one of my favorite albums and examples of how metalcore used to derive from having hardcore and punk influence. Great video by the way.

check out the band called Svalbard, you can definitely feel the hardcore roots both musically and lyrically

Trivium, Killswitch, all that remains and aild got me into metalcore. That 2003-2008 metalcore sound and feel will always be my favorite style of music.

Wellll... Metalcore went Nashville

Throwdown's album Haymaker is is such a great early 00's Metal core album with the perfect blend of hardcore and metal. Putting that it on now. Thanks Finn.

I feel like Finn gets me lol. Great video. Finn if you read this. I would like to see different content. I've suggested this before but give options on different content types and have us vote on what we would prefer.

I see you got a lot of great bands like The Ephemeral, Saving Vice, Patient Sixty-Seven, and the boys on our label, We Were Giants! A lot of great bands in the current Metalcore scene in my opinion 🤘 Also funny enough the photo you used of Metalcore bands was the photo banner I made for an article for upcoming Metalcore bands in 2023

Excuse me Sir. I'm offended.

metalcore is just BUTTROCK-influenced now and feels on the edge of radio rather then on the edge of sociality

Great, thoughtful video. Never thought about applying archetypes to the genre but how you framed it made sense!

I appreciate that you recognized the New England Metalcore bands and especially Aftershock(HOLY SHIT! were they good). I got to see Earth Crisis and Overcast play together so many times it was ridiculous but that was the New England hardcore scene for you.

I've never heard it said better. I have this conversation with my wife as people who are trying to start a band. Looking at the modern landscape in sound the bands that have the hardcore edge to them are basically just Nu-Core bands like Dealer, Alpha Wolf etc.. But their lyrics are much more inspired by like Korn and Limp Bizkit. While other bands seem to be very much "guitar music". I hope to see a change in this. As the world got more individualized and obsessed with the personal experience so did lyrics. "Lost in the Undertow" is a perfect way to sum up what I believe is the issue lyrically with modern metal core. Everyone is drowning but it doesn't seem like the genre wants us to do anything about it.

It's like everything where evolution occurs, the longer it goes on the more it evolves away from its roots and becomes more watered down. As metalcore has been around so long, the bands aren't influenced by the same music as in earlier days.

Oh wow! Your analysis makes alot of sense. I'm thoroughly from the Metal genre, except that fitting in was the last thing I ever tried to do. I couldn't fit in if I tried, and not fitting in always yielded good results for me. ...but this totally alienated the Metal crowd from me. *EVERYBODY* kicked me out of their Metal band, and aftr a while I had zero close friends from that scene. Anyway, I didn't come here to talk about myself. I'm just amazed that I never realized how important it was to "fit in" in that scene. BTW, my "credentials" were better than anybody's. If you heard of a Metal band, I already had a few of their albums, bootlegs and solo projects. And this was before the days of Napster! ...except I loved all kinds of music. Even "teeny bopper" stuff, and Elton John, and other music that wasn't "Metal" enough for the Metal crowd. That's *really* what alienated folks. Oh well. Screw it. I just wanna' emphasize that life can be pretty cool when you don't "fit in". Way more meaningful, too.

Do you not consider the new, more hardcore influenced stuff Metalcore? Like Dying Wish, Boundaries, Kublai Khan, Foreign Hands, SYSC, and Knocked Loose? That stuff sounds super fresh to me. Definitely agree with you re: the Djent strain of Metalcore.

Stafe, Sale and bland?🤔.

surprised no mention of bands like Trivium or Silent Civilian

Great take, Finn. I don't know how much I agree with the lack of Punk groundedness, but I think you're spot on about the lack of emotional connection to the music that made the early 00s stuff so good and so popular. The emotional response I got from As I Lay Dying breakdowns or Killswitch riffs combined with their big choruses drew me to metalcore, and I still get that from bands like Bury Tomorrow and Bleed From Within, but I don't get that from the Arcitects and The Devil Wears Prada style bands because I feel like the big choruses or the crazy breakdown is the only focus. There's no underlying guitar hook to link the choruses and the breakdowns like you get on something like It Dies Today's Threnody or Unearth's Overcome.

I hate how UnderOath gets tossed in the same bag as Linkin Park.....Linkin Park is almost the 'edgy' or 'alt' version of butt-rock... but have you listened to the first 3 albums from UnderOath? Act of Depression, Cries of the Past, maybe up through The Changing of Times? That shit was very heavy... almost even moreso deathcore than anything else. I don't know what happened after those first few albums and the direction they went, (Probably the departure of Dallas Taylor, replaced by Spencer whoever he is). But Dallas Underoath is the underoath I know and love, and the music they made during those formative years 99' - 03', is iconic. Modern Metalcore does suck, I think you're right... save from a few bands here and there, like Knocked Loose, or SpiritBox, which one could argue are not even metalcore.