@@ItsSnagret Snagret, you apocalyptic heart throb, you.

Need a "works cited" section for this episode. Please please please, @Jonahbarnes5841

There's nothing normal about Jonah 😂 ... jk

@@Canut0 savage 😂

Elders Quorum is for doctrine not speculation

Wouldn't it be great to have a side by side history comparison of the apocrypha and great books of the time. Even if it's just a chart that explains the setting and backdrop and send you to a document. I'd love to study the Bible and World History chronologically.

Because the purpose of Sunday school and elder's quorum is to help you be a better disciple of Christ. This is for intellectual entertainment and general coolness

​@dmoney4075 oh? So WY was Noah drunk? Why did Esau give up his birthright? Why were Joseph's brothers so jealous? The apocrypha give us answers where to Canon fails. Joseph Smith would have LOVED this stuff. The little he saw before his death, he embraced

​@@chyhodgson7726understanding the garment is irrelevant to our discipleship? Uh.... huh?? Better tell Jesus that. Won't He be embarrassed!

😯 😃

Woah that’s super deep!!

WOW!!!!! Mind freaking blown. Thank you. YES. It was not sin. Just a literal Transgression. Wow.

😯 I'm taking a screenshot of this. Well said!! 😃

@@BoMwarriorVlogthanks!

Ham who was the son of Noah that stole the garment, his name in Hebrew means Hot (it can also mean like burnt, charred black). It is actually spoken Cham (the ch being the heavy, back of the throat H found in semitic language).

❤❤❤

I believe this interpretation is what the light skin=incorrupt (repentant) dark skin=corrupt is what the BOM is talking about and has nothing to do with race.

I’d like a source so I can better explain this to others

I just bought the book at DI. Plus I have two more nibley books too

Absolutely awesome book!

There are also pdf/scanned image copies of some of Nibley s books on the internet archive library website for free, if you don’t mind doing all your reading from a screen 🙃. Plus a few Margaret Barker books and a bunch of other books that Mike Day references in the show notes of his podcast a lot.

Oh wow!

Betty's fighting the good fight! They'll come around!

@@jonahbarnes5841 I hope so, Jonah!

They that have an ear to hear, let em' hear 🙉

Interesting too that Egyptian royalty often depicted wearing this gauze linen..... which is sort of akin to shed snake skin..... And a bit ironic that the ad is " buy a shirt" whilst talking of vestments. Gave me a good chuckle😂

Bingo

lololol

I learned the trick from Mythbusters, and I agree, it is a game-changer for those nighttime bathroom breaks. 😁

I watched this, in part, because of that Ancient Tradition podcast episode! I love how it all ties together.

I'm glad you like it, Angela. Thanks for tuning in.

Heck yeah! Encore!!!!!!!

Was Orian named after Nimrod?

@@katykristensen302 Orion is Greek, that’s what we call the constellation today, but anciently in Mesopotamia and Egypt lands were associated with the stars, “as above so below” but “The Mighty Hunter” was a hunter and Giant in Greek myths, but in Mesopotamia the same constellation was also associated with a mighty hunter called Uratu. Nimrod like many names in the Biblical text could be the Semetic version of the very same thing. About Ur Dynasty 3 (2100 BC - 2000 BC) which overtook the Semetic Akkadian Empire, we see King Shulgi claim to be a living god and he rebuilt the great ziggurat and introduced widespread bureaucracy and big government making one voice. The cuneiform tablets found in North America are receipts for sacrificial lambs during Ur 3 shortly after king Shulgi, so for whatever reason we have items from about 2000 BC (a time when they used ovens to bake brick and tablets) found in North America. I tend to think that Nimrod is more than a singular individual, but represents the governmental empire of Ur, traditionally Nimrod would date to 2400 BC with the Akkadian Emperor Sargon the Great, but the location of the valley of Nimrod mentioned in the Book of Mormon may be two specific locations that I have noticed and one of those overlaps with Ninevah. This would take the Jaredites path Northward at an era of significant climate change where even the Bible speaks of hot dry winds drying the lands, and by about 1750 BC - 1725 BC we have historical synchronisms with Terah father of Abraham as the ruler of Urkesh named Teru, who parallels Abraham’s father so perfectly the accounts have been discovered in the Mari tablets. But these 7 year pattern of abundance and famine is recorded from 2000 BC in Egypt to the time of Joseph in the second Intermediate period of Egypt, about 1600 BC - 1500 BC. This is the famine horsemen and approximate 1000 year period (Seal) of famine after war and “giants.”

There are intimations that Adam took Lucifer's place in the Godhead.

Neither Adam or Lucifer are in or ever were in the Godhead.

@@yvonnejohnson9587 you beat me to it. It's possible that Michael supplanted him as the chief Archangel

@@yvonnejohnson9587 There might just be quotes you haven't encountered yet.

" y Jehová cerró la puerta" (Génesis 7:16)

Yes! Noah (and Noah's parents) viewed him as the new Adam.

​@@jonahbarnes5841woah, where can I learn more about Jonah's parents?!

There are many Adams just as there are many worlds

@@katykristensen302 does each world have their own Savior?

Hi this is Tom, yes, each world had their own Adam and Eve. On all the worlds without number they were tempted by Lucifer. I believe on this world was the last Adam and Eve he tempted. (D&C 88:51-61 focus on verse 59 first to the last and then last to the first, then first to the last) But on this world (the last world) the conversation between Heavenly Father and Lucifer in the garden got a little more heated. (I know I am walking on sacred ground, but) Lucifer was shocked to be cursed for the first time doing the same thing to Adam and Eve as he did on other worlds, he did not get in trouble like this before, for the other times. See the final judgement on Lucifer has not happened yet. So when he was kicked out of Heaven he was so mad that the scriptures said this in Revelations 12:12 And after these things I heard another voice saying, Woe to the inhabiters of the earth, yea, and they who dwell upon the islands of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. There is more in D&C 76:24-25.

Faith in action parted the red sea. According to Jewish belief, Nachshon ben Aminadav walked into the sea, up to his nose, then it parted.

Please tell me where it tells of Adam cutting from the tree of life. I read the book of Jasher, where it says that Moses retrieved it while at Jethro’s place. I wanted to know where it came from before that.

Amen

She stopped wearing it to go to the gym

@@HaleStorm49which then led to Jamba Juice, and then a short little grocery trip because she needed eggs and milk. By that time it was time to sit in the carline to pickup the kids from school…

​@@HaleStorm49 That is the greatest retort I've ever read!

@@d.porter3142 😘

My favorites books are the gospel of Nicodemus and Barnabas. Barnas mentioms Christ as the red heifer symbolism and talks about a broken heart and contrite spirit awesome stuff.

@michaelescobedo2524 I’ve been coming across references to the Epistle of Barnabas a LOT lately, and the more I read about it the more I’m certain I need to read it myself!

@@gingersnaps215 you ever see chronicles of Narnia. The heifer described is just like the lion in the movie.

Very, very good. Few know this.

@@redr1150r I have been studying and searching since 1990, the Holy Ghost has lead me to lost truth that is absolutely amazing 🙂

@@brendamartin3444 I enquired with some prayer also. With some inspiration and searching I also discovered the truth of it.

​@@brendamartin3444footnotes🥺

Interesting, but it very specifically says that it's Ham in the Bible. Not that the Bible is always accurate of course, but still.

I think that Nibley wrote about this and paraphrasing; that before Nimrod was life and behind him a trail of death. He misused the garment to become the great hunter and destroy life.

That's a great comment!

???? For real?

Just read it, weird wild stuff. I think most of it went over my head.

@@wes2176the take away is that his garment was made by God and it seems to be what caused him to rebell. Contrast Lucifer searching for glory in the Beaty of his garments to Christ being found in the suffering of the brazen snake. But yeah the more you dive into this stuff the crazier it gets. Like temple symbolism stuff.

That was not about Lucifer. It could be a type of Lucifer, but it was about the King of Tyrus. I like the likening, however. It gives us much to ponder.

"Thou hast been in Eden, the garden of God"?

It’s around the 48min mark of episode 15: Sea Monsters, Sea Serpents and Leviathans. She quotes professor Andrei Orlov’s article “Leviathan’s Knot: the High Priest’s Sash as a Cosmological Stmbol,” which can be found on Marquette University’s website. That article quotes the writings of Josephus’s (1st century Jewish historian) description of the High Priest’s vestments.

It's simply astounding. The deeper you dig, the truer it all is. Joseph was a prophet! We are the luckiest people in history!

YES! I hate when people snark st the USA with this story. The truth is the fires. #Michaelknowswatsup

Also look up lung issues with micro particles

I have never heard this explanation, but this “over thinking” about the problems of resulting graphite dust is totally in line with all the stuff that was created (I’m pretty sure by NASA people) in anticipation of potential problems, for the tests done on the shroud of Turin in the 70s to prevent damaging it! And the locals shows up with scotch tape and other things that would harm the cloth, much to the horror of the Americans involved 😱

I wonder if the Greek OT is sufficient to staunch the false notion of original/imputed sin (I mean you’d think that passage in Ezekiel 33..? 16..?? about how the sins of the fathers won’t be placed on the children would be enough to staunch it, buuuuut they seem to prefer to misunderstand Paul’s lamentations about his natural man as proof that “original sin” is a thing in Catholicism and Protestantism… but it’s NOT understood the same between those two for sure) because Greek Orthodox also never adopted original sin as a doctrine. I wonder if the Eastern half of the “original” christian church just fared better in that light because of the Greek, or because they better-maintained belief in other “extra-biblical” teachings (which is a ridiculous statement because the canon was very fluid at that point anyway…), or what. They also (still) believe marriage is eternal, and that the ultimate purpose of life is theosis/ divinization/to become like God. Unlike the Western half of the church. (But unlike the Roman Catholics, they don’t seem to believe in purgatory/spirit world after death, so there’s that). 🤷‍♀️

All of us are respectively Adam and Eve. We all fell, we all got a garment to protect us from God's glory and that covering is the Messiah

@@jonahbarnes5841 We are respectively Adam and Eve in so far as making and keeping the covenants are concerned - this does not necessarily apply to anything that they did in the garden and later. None of what you just said about the garment being a protection from God's glory are in the temple or in the scriptures.

@@jimmckin333 hmmm. That's debatable... But if the Atonement of Jesus Christ is the only hope we have of returning to God's presence-- which, I think we'd both agree is a rash all over the Book of Mormon -- then it might be worth noting that the word Atonement is made up. The actual word in Hebrew is KFR, which is the garment. Jehovah covered Adam and Eve's shame. So .. I'd say, the garment is in the scriptures infinitely more than the Atonement is...

Absolutely. Nibley is a legend.

There are several Books of Jasher. One of them is a forgery, yes. I'm using the Sefir ha Yasher, translated by Moses Samuel. It's definitely not a forgery

😮

Also according to Jewish tradition, when Nimrod was wearing the garment of Adam the animals would bow to Nimrod out of respect and Nimrod would catch these animals.

I think some of it is that, since Joseph Smith's day, the Church has been beaten into fraud-paranoia. Fraudsters target us and it makes the Church terrified. It wasn't always like this...

No. There are several purported books of Jasher. The one I wrote from was first published by Moses Samuel and is sometimes called the Sefir ha Yasher. It was absolutely 100% not available to Joseph in 1829. It did, however, ride to western consciousness in the 1840s. Joseph thought it was a blessing from God. An encouragement for the Saints faithfulness. Today we poo poo the apocrypha. Not what Joseph did

"there is no recorded historical precedent for this fact." says the source he pulled up. доверяй, но проверяй. Trust but verify.

Women are totally crapped on in the traditional canon. The apocrypha completely annihilate the misogynism of western christianity. I have a book coming out about this next month. It's too much to site here.

True.

@@CMZIEBARTHPersonally I don’t think so (assuming I am interpreting your comment correctly). The earth was a Terrestrial world, but the garden of Eden was Gods Temple (the Celestial Kingdom on earth). The whole world was Terrestrial and therefore beautiful and immortal. The garden which was an enclosure (hence being cast out and not could re-enter by way of the gate which was being guarded) was the Temple of God so He could walk and talk with them, why else would it needed to be fenced so-to-speak.

@2u43 one of the reasons it needed to be fenced was so that they couldn’t eat from the Tree of Life and become “immortal in their sins” as it were. I forget where this is in scripture, or if it’s even in reference to Adam and Eve, but somewhere it says like, “their days were prolonged that they might repent.” Because you can’t have the true exaltation promised by the Tree of Life if you remain in your sins. Plus, if they ate, then they wouldn’t be able to die, and then that would have made God into a liar, and probably violated the laws of justice and mercy, and God would have then ceased to be God (but this bit is mostly extrapolation on my part. Them being prevented of eating the Life fruit and being removed from the Garden for “their sake” is actually in the text.)

@@2u43 The earth is on the Telestial plane.

Could be misremembering, but I feel like I read something like that in Jasher.