I'm sorry to hear that Ray. Those wounds go deep

I'm so sorry Ray....as someone who has also experienced parents who divorced, I know the pain....and I made a decision to follow the Lord and do things His way for my children's sake, and by His grace He has blessed me with a wonderful marriage and family....keep seeking Jesus and He will heal you...know He is always with you and loves you!

If they lived together before they got married, they should have known that they would divorce if they got married. If they would have paid attention to how they were living together, they should have decided to NEVER get married in the first place. Then they would not have divorced

​@@edwardvane8195👏 I fully agree.

There is no pleasure in being used for pleasure by someone who reserves the right to abandon you when you are no longer pleasurable.

If you like someone else’s demons to attach to you then sure. And be in bondage such as having a spirit spouse that are hard to get rid of, fun. Ps I’m 25.

May God help us In this generation

​@@KathrineJKozachokwhy would there be no pleasure if both people reserve the right to leave the other? That goes both ways. It would not just be one person. And in fact, there could even be a third or fourth person living together. There could be 9 women and 1 man living together and nothing would be wrong with it if 6 women left when they decided they no longer wanted to live there.

Keep going my brother in Christ. Don’t let this world fool, and learn from other peoples mistakes. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Stay strong, stay fit, and keep God the priority over a wife. Have an anxious devotion to God and he will take care of the rest don’t wait on him, he’s waiting on you. God bless!

Will do!

So . . . how'd it work out?

So. . . . . . . How’s it going?

@@BenchwarmerGaming08 @KathrineJKozachok Well, I continued my path into the Church (I'm a convert) throughout the months after writing this comment. While we were discerning, it became clear that she wasn't going to take this path anytime soon and that we weren't going to come to terms with the contraception issue. We also had grave differences on some other moral issues. But we didn't sleep with each other after I wrote this comment and so I had the freedom to follow through with what had become apparent: that marriage was not our way forward. And so I separated from her about two years ago. I'm a Catholic for a little over a year now, and my life continues to be transformed by the sacraments and the Church's teaching. After two years of being single, I now know a young faithful Catholic woman with whom I am discerning marriage. Thank you guys for your interest! God be with you.

@@KathrineJKozachok I tried to mention you in another comment, it seems like it hasn't worked. May I refer you to my answer to @benchwarmergaming? God bless!

Well if you see divorce as an absolute evil, sure. Some might say however that sometimes it's better to break up an unloving marriage that brings no joy to the weddedz rather than stay together in misery. Divorce, at least sometimes, is good for some situations.

@The Unofficial Gamer sure, that's fair. Marriage is so much more. If it starts lacking that though.... I can imagine circumstances in which it's just better that couples divorce (abuse and such). I do feel like putting a taboo on divorce allows a ton of misery to endure. Having it as an option can be a really helpful last resort in failing marriages

@@irvinglambert9316 💯👏👏👏👏

The utilitarian view can acknowledge the correlation between pre-marital sex and divorce and prescribe certain behaviors based on that assumption. What it can’t tell you is “why” that’s the case, something far more essential to understand.

@@irvinglambert9316 is there a difference between annulment and divorce then?

Yikes

"as it was not what she was use to" *SPITS OUT WATER* What?

I want to find a guy like you! Its so hard thought, these days

@@tefi8104 Simping is anathema.

@@tefi8104 thanks for your kind words!

Praise God! It is an honor to hear stories like yours. Keep going, sister

If your son or daughter wanted to live with their partner before marriage, how would you react?

Id be very concerned of course.. Id explain to them why its wrong & how it’ll hurt their relationship.. hopefully Id be calm enough to mention some theology of the body. Id hope to emphasize its so worth the wait!

Id be very concerned of course.. Id explain to them why its wrong & how it’ll hurt their relationship.. hopefully Id be calm enough to mention some theology of the body. Id hope to emphasize its so worth the wait!

Amen to this comment!!

I like the threat of leaving instantly.because then you have to be on your best behavior One little slip up and it’s bye-bye I am not going to end up like my father in a 30 year old marriage with a abusive woman no way

haha, well-put!! love that!

@@marymc6701 If u saw Nick Vujicic u wouldn’t believe your eyes. At least I didn’t.

You must be a rtard if you think I’m paying 10k fora real Gucci watch lmao I only buy off brand stuff(PS this is not it innuendo I just really hate expensive brands of any sort)

I mean sure but their relationship does not sound great, stability wise. It will probably result in divorce.

@Jarred de Beer A big if. Given Catholics today I am close to ruling it out.

@Jarred de Beer How is it not? If I told you that marrying a Psychopath will probably get you killed I think that would be very charitable. It is the truth. Divorce rates are really @#$% nowadays, also I do not think they are married yet.

Jarred I mean, considering the topic of the video... also we’re too charitable these days.

🙏🏻

We're glad it blesses you!

Indeed.

Andrew, how long are you married? I know this isn’t fear mongering as the data bears out this fact and not something Mr. West has concocted up to “scare” people. This message is actually full of love based on the fact that the divorce rate is higher between cohabitating couples. As he said, all is redeemable with repentance. The thing about marriage is that we need God’s supernatural grace to remain faithful, free and open to life in our sacramental, Catholic marriages. The grave sin of sex outside of marriage closes us off to this beautiful grace. And if our jobs as spouses is to help get our beloved to heaven, how can we do this if we have led them into mortal sin through premarital sex, contraception and cohabitation?

Sounds like you're trying to justify your sin by falsely accusing this good man for teaching truth.

@@KathrineJKozachok you sin every day stop with the holier than thou attitude no one likes that

Thank you for your honest question @rseasyguidesto ! We’d highly recommend submitting it to The Ask Christopher West Podcast where Christopher and his wife Wendy address more specific issues and give more detailed advice. Feel free to submit your question here: askchristopherwest.com/ask and check periodically to see if your question was answered. This video might also provide more nuance: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hsh-oZd6navXcnU.html

I had no trouble liking this video.

The same thing has happened to me on another one of his videos

Are you sure you hadn't already liked it?

Not true. I just liked it but then unliked and then disliked it.

That’s a glitch in the system. Usually with a timeout error.

Nathan, great question. I can think of a few reasons: 1. We should not put ourselves in a near occasion of sin. Living together before marriage is not conducive to staying chaste. 2. It causes scandal to both Christians and non-Christians. They will see them as a Christian couple and that they’re living together. People will not assume that the couple are certainly practising chastity. They will assume, understandably so, that the couple are sleeping together. 3. Living together as a couple is something special and it’s a privilege that should be reserved for marriage. 4. If you move in with your bf/gf, what happens if you break up? Apart from the pain of the breakup, you need to look for a new place to live. 5. Dating relationship and engagement are a time of discernment. It is hard to discern with all clarity when you don’t get much space and are so close to the other person. It’s like trying to read a book one inch from your face. Same thing with discerning for marriage. We want to choose the person with all freedom, but living together blurs our vision. Hope this helps 😊

@@annat4209 Great answer! Thank you

my gut instincts are way more powerful than 'car analogy' - it is spot on - i dont need to live with him in order to check him out in every aspects! i dont have six packs! i have a little bit of gut and would use of it the most!

@@marymc6701 your "gut instinct" is not a valid way to know anything. Humans gain knowledge through observation of reality not through some mystical intuition. In order to know that you are compatible with someone for life, you have to live with them first to find out that you are or are not.

None of us are beyond God's Mercy. Give chastity a try in your life.

You are the reason Mr. West repeatedly said "none of this is cause for despair." But I can say, porn and premarital sex are things to offer up to the cross, I have a boat load of issues because of it but I see how things are getting better with time and Gods mercy

Hi, want to share from experience the amazing liberating reality of a spouses forgiveness of their spouses former sexual waywardness and this forgiveness was to embody the forgiveness of the lord and live together faithful to God's love for each other. A husband who wants with his heart nothing more than lifting up his wife to God, in union with Christ, for her life sanctification and joy with The Lord, giving himself in intercession and sacrifice unto greater sanctification and relationship. There is unspeakable joy, healing and grace to be found in trust with the Lord. As Archbishop Fulton Sheen said, it takes Three to Get Married... Husband Wife & God, the height of your union you have together in and with the heart of the Lord. His mercy endures, Jesus I trust in you. Amen. With men perfect love may be impossible but together with God Nothing is Impossible. God bless you!! Believe in the Lord God who loves you and as you breath has not given up on you. God's offer of grace in relationship is sufficient. Let us submit ourselves to Trust in Him. Amen.

Keep Hope and stay enthusiastic. God is good friend.

That’s a good thing isn’t it? Screwing is fun!

That's exactly my problem! If I move out or refuse sex, it seems like breaking up to him.

He is over 1900 years overdue and you are still waiting for him?

Don't hold ya breath

Is that why he’s breathing hard…?

He's not leaving it out of the equation, just assuming it. Compatibility can be determined without having to live together first. I encourage you to keep watching his content or listen to his podcast and you'll see he gets into that stuff as well.

@@PsychoBible He does? Great then. But it' should never be assumed, it must be verified beforehand, otherwise you may realize you are not compatible while waiting your turn at family court. Westerners don't seem to do this much in my opinion.

I say that moving together requires the same amount of discernment that marriage does. And I find it perplexing that people wouldn't really talk about religion, children and the like before marriage.

👏

@@oanalesnic79 Thanks, I do my best (and still happily married...)

The truth hurts, it does. But I'm afraid its gonna stay that way. *Someone who doesn't follow truth is bound to be offended by it*. Would you not say a rapist's actions are wrong because that might be offensive or judgmental to his personal moral choices?

@@Mooskellunge No idea what that question means or its relevance. Saying someone will suddenly turn into a bad person because they sleep with you still makes no sense.

@@veddermn8 You implied that the truth is offensive. Someone sleeping with another outside of marriage shows that they do not have that reservation. They aren't sleeping with someone based on their relationship status. Its doesn't mean they are 2x or 5x more likely to cheat on you or anything statistically specific, but it does show something about them. All I was saying is that it doesn't matter if you find that to be offensive or judgmental, that is just how it is.

@@Mooskellunge Uh, but its not "truth", as you admitted. If its not "statistically specific" what are you basing it on? Again, why do you think someone just turns into a bad person because of this? If someone was capable of cheating, it could just as easily show up later when/if you are married.

@@veddermn8 Someone does not "turn into a bad person". That's not what I said. Someone who is open to sleep with and/or have sex with someone outside of marriage, shows that they are not going to refrain from cheating with a person they are not married to just because they are married/ in a relationship with someone else. You seemed to think that was quite offensive and judgmental to say, but being nice and accepting isn't exactly the idea when it comes to serious matter of sin. Probably the biggest issue being that hardly anyone today respects marriage. I don't know, maybe that commitment is just too scary. Have a nice day.

That was a weird thing for good to do then - invent something, make it feel good, but make it a bad thing for us to do, whilst also the way we reproduce. He kinda fucked up didn’t he…?

@@Penfold101 sex is a very good gift.. A way humans can image God's free, total, faithful Love. Sex is a visible sign of the total, selfless, sacrificial, life-giving Love that God has for us and desires us to participate in. Sex is to lift us to true love, to the Eternal.. not to implode on ourselves and cause selfishness,heartbreak, or suffering

​@@Penfold101all good things come from God. After the fall of man, choosing ourselves first, many things have gone astray- our desires included. It is a very elementary view of God to view him like a puppet master inventing things to laugh at for Himself. He is the source of all goodness. He created us good. After the fall of man, our instincts are disordered. Think of gluttony. Food is good and wonderful in the right way, in moderation. Overuse and abuse of it lead to evil and poor health. Same with sexual desire. We can choose to try to order our desires and learn how to use them the way God intended (which will make us the most happy and fulfilled) or we can chase after every next thrill and passion, leaving a growing emptiness inside us.

Divorce, even in "civil marriages" is still brutal, very often. Especially when kids are involved. *You don't "test" your partner to see if he/she is fit as a future spouse.* You are right, this is not the only reason for people to be together, but keep in mind that the topic of this video is cohabitation before marriage. "Testing it out/ seeing if it works" is something I have come across quite frequently as a reason for moving together. In fact, my own girlfriend used to give this specific reason, when we would talk about these topics. So yeah, this is not a general statement about relationships, only one reason for moving together before marriage. *In fact, I would say that the most logical reason for those couples to end in divorce more frequently is because just as they accept morally and ideologically sex before marriage and living together before marriage, they also morally accept divorce, while those people who think sex before marriage and living together before marriage is wrong, surely will also think that divorce is wrong, and therefore less likely to get a divorce.* 1. This is pretty much what he said. 4:23 Having a different understanding of Sex quite naturally to a different understanding of marriage, which more likely ends in divorce. His main point, and he is very consistent on this, is that sexuality has sadly been understood to be something that is more focused on what I can take from my spouse, something more akin to mutual satisfaction of one's own desires. These are my words, he is more eloquent and elaborate on this. 2. I'm quite surprised that after you criticized him for trying to establish a cause-effect relationship, you do the same thing. With the same reasons, just worded differently. Or maybe not the same reasons, but your and his arguments are on the same coin. You are kind of loose on the fallacies, I would say. If you take a look again at the first 14 seconds, you will see that the topic of this video is specifically cohabitation before marriage. The title and thumbnail also make this clear. So maybe this was a misunderstanding on your part. I would say there is no strawman here, only a misunderstanding, which can happen. :) And regarding the "post hoc, ergo prompter hoc"-fallacy: strictly this is not the case here. As far as I can recall, he does not make a temporal connection between cohabitation and divorce, and the cause-effect relationship is established psychologically. Have a good night, J.

@@intedominesperavi6036 took the words out of my mouth

Living with someone before marriage is a much bigger risk than not doing so. It's a much bigger disadvantage for both people if you compare the two. Also, if you know the person you are going to marry well enough, you will know if they are "a complete animal" or not. True that there are things you can't know about a person until you live with them, but when you marry someone you will have your whole life with that person to discover these things and how to deal with differences. It's an adventure. You must choose to take that risk, getting married anyway is a risk, you are handing over your whole life over to your spouse and to God through your vocation of marriage. It's a complete surrender whichever way you look at it.

If you don't know how to determine these things without cohabitating, then you are not ready for marriage. This is a very childish argument.

+Jesse Holthaus, writes _"In the future there will be no marriage because people will no longer see the value in it."_ What is the innate value of marriage? And please make sure you point out value that can't be achieved with other situations (e.g. you don't have to be married to have a committed relationship or have a family/raise-children).

@Jarred de Beer, writes _"Marriage, by definition, is lifelong."_ *mar·riage* */ˈmerij/* _1. the legally or formally recognized union of two people as partners in a personal relationship (historically and in some jurisdictions specifically a union between a man and a woman)._ Hmmm, I see noting about it being life-long in the definition.

@Jarred de Beer From Dictioanry.com: marriage [ mar-ij ]noun _(broadly) any of the diverse forms of interpersonal union established in various parts of the world to form a familial bond that is recognized legally, religiously, or socially, granting the participating partners mutual conjugal rights and responsibilities and including, for example, opposite-sex marriage, same-sex marriage, plural marriage, and arranged marriage:_ From Merriam-Webster: marriage noun mar·​riage | \ ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij \ _1 a the state of being united as spouses in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law_ _b: the mutual relation of married persons : WEDLOCK_ _c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage_ From Cambridge Dictionary: marriage noun _a legally accepted relationship between two people in which they live together, or the official ceremony that results in this:_ Shall I go on? You said that marriage is, by definition, lifelong. I've posted four dictionary definitions (the first four I looked up), none mention marriage bing lifelong. Care to post a dictionary definition that does? Or you can just admit that you were wrong.

@@fred_derf it's pretty clear if you look at recorded history that virtually every culture (but particularly those which lasted long term) have a form of marriage and it was considered permanent. Dissolution of marriage was always a minority of marriages if it existed and not the ideal. Marriage is permanent biologically because marriage is about bonding the biological parents of children and making sure they provide and protect for each other and their children. If you go back (in a blip of time historically) before reliable contraception it's easy to see why marriage is so essential. A woman trying to raise children and provide for them alone has always had tremendous obstacles because both aspects are full time jobs. If she had a permanent partner they could share providing and raising between them and their extended families.

@@beautifulspirit7420 So, you're not able to admit when you are wrong. Got it.

please, speak for yourself - i want my kids grow in a healthy and safe (emotionally, spiritually and mentally) loving and committed 'institution' whatever you'd want to call that.

Kids? - - - -ERKKKKKK ....@@marymc6701

​@@marymc6701Well said, good on you

Exactly!

Maybe grow up first, identify those habits, get rid of them, then engage in relationships, look for people who are also grown up, commit each other to the truth, be willing to settle conflict, examine truthfully and consequently wether or not you two fit together and have the same goals, be brave enough to separate, if it doesn't fit, then marry and move in together. Stay committed to the truth, still settle conflicts, be willing to work on your self. Enjoy your now substantially reduced likelihood of a divorce.

90% of these habits are possible to discover just by dating and spending time together imo. Also it is good to date few years before marriage ofc. Also thinking that by "trying it out" before marriage you will get the best and perfect person who does not annoy you in any way is kind of naive. No relationship is perfect, so it all stands and fall on you two and how are you able to tolerate each other and die to yourself every day.

@@junomcgaff3479 Agreed, and living together is a massive part of that. It’s a natural step in the process of being with someone, and I would a,most guarantee things will change because that’s just how humans are. Marriage shouldn’t change anything, because the only difference is that you have rings in your fingers and a lot less money in your bank account…

@@Penfold101 im probably an old soul but I always wanted a marriage to change EVERYTHING! As it used to be, it is a time where two become one, it is an act of love, permanent act of a selfless love. I want romance, I want love. Tgere are still people out there for whom marriage actually means something and Im one of them. God bless

Lol, thats a really childish notion of marriage you’ve got there friend. Marriage cannot be about being happy, its about having a greater in our shared existence and our end towards God. TL;DR- Marriage has always been for raising children, family. The fulfillment comes from knowing you are needed.

@@PauperPeccator, writes _"Marriage cannot be about being happy,"_ What crap.

The Church allows people to leave abusive marriages, but people need to be more careful about who they enter into relationships with in the first place to avoid abusive people. God does not call us to obey our spouse and be stuck in an abusive marriage, He calls us to be loving, happy, and at peace. God does not encourage any abuse, even if some Christians may twist this teaching.

Everyone selfishly pursuing their own personal benefit is exactly how we ended up in the societal mess we're in.

@@kathyalex778, _"but people need to be more careful about who they enter into relationships with in the first place to avoid abusive people."_ And if your spouse successfully hid that fact that they are an abusive asshole until after the wedding, well then you're fucked. Right?