The Real Reason Why CRT Monitors Are Better

  Рет қаралды 38,078

MXDash2

MXDash2

7 ай бұрын

Check out the game I'm working on. Coming later this year.
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@SolSeal
@SolSeal 6 ай бұрын
The difficult part isn’t to believe the superiority of crt… the difficult part is to go to a store and buy one. Not to mention find a shop to service an old one. The last shop that I knew that they did it… has been closed for a couple of years.😢
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 6 ай бұрын
Getting your hands on a working CRT is difficult but the very next video I'm currently working on covers some of the most effective ways of getting a CRT. I didn't mention it in this video because it really was beyond the scale of what I wanted to focus on. But expect a video soon that covers this.
@PJxBuchwild
@PJxBuchwild 2 ай бұрын
​@@GTXDashI don't think it's hard to get a CRT, it's hard to find a high quality CRT. Ideally you'd want something capable of pushing 1080P+ and as of right now you'll pay hundreds to get ahold of one
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 2 ай бұрын
@PJxBuchwild Yep. I don't have a CRT that can do 1080p. However, I wouldn't call them "low quality".
@piadas804
@piadas804 2 ай бұрын
They are inferior, dude
@AstronautLoveTriangle
@AstronautLoveTriangle 23 күн бұрын
Tell me about it! I've had a Street Fighter 2 cabinet with a vertically collapsed screen for years, and i just cannot find anyone to service it.
@trihvo
@trihvo 4 ай бұрын
I am crying right now. My dad used to have a huge ass Sony CRT TV in the basement which he threw out a week ago. Now that I watched this video, I found out that it was the Sony KV-40XBR700 which is one of the Holy Grail's of CRTs.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 4 ай бұрын
Damn, man. Sorry to hear that. One of the best for playing retro consoles. I know what it feels like because my dad threw away a ViewSonic desktop CRT like 5 years ago. I feel sick every time I think about it.
@EOB16
@EOB16 4 ай бұрын
RIP for the Trinitron🫡😔
@romanfedorowycz4090
@romanfedorowycz4090 4 ай бұрын
40inch 300 pound Godzilla Trinitron RIP🫡🥲🫡
@ShankMods
@ShankMods 4 ай бұрын
Don't be too upset. The KV-40XBR isn't that great. Anything that's not 1080i is scaled and adds quite a bit of lag, and doesn't look that great. Basically all 1080i content is 16:9, and the 40xbr is 4:3. So you essentially are guaranteed to either have lag, or letterboxing. It is by no means at all a holy Grail, and honestly is pretty awful for gaming in general unless you are going deep down the scaler rabbit hole.
@romanfedorowycz4090
@romanfedorowycz4090 4 ай бұрын
@@ShankMods yeah you gotta find out how to put it in 540p mode in the service menu.
@XolaresTiberius
@XolaresTiberius 3 ай бұрын
I would love to see a new 1440p CRT at 200hz. I'd buy it
@WalnutOW
@WalnutOW 3 ай бұрын
Won’t happen, unfortunately. It’s like going to the moon, we don’t know how to make CRTs anymore. The assembly lines don’t exist anymore.
@IcchiNutz
@IcchiNutz 2 ай бұрын
​@@WalnutOWnah we know how to make them. Not as if the over century worth of R&D just up and disappeared. The community behind CRT's would somehow have to convince a company (like Sony or Samsung) it would be worth their time to re-invest in production.
@joman104
@joman104 2 ай бұрын
One of my goals it to make a 4k 200hz crt. Would require a ton of curcuit design work but I think its possible. As far as I know, most crt monitors could display higher resolutions, but the circuitry inside driveing the electron gun wasn't designed for the inputs
@newaccount877
@newaccount877 Ай бұрын
Same
@greathero239
@greathero239 Ай бұрын
The dream monitor.
@ShankMods
@ShankMods 4 ай бұрын
Great video. To my understanding, the reason CRT computer monitors have more visible flicker at 60hz than their television counterparts is due to the choise of phosphors. Shorter persistence phosphors dont leave as long trails, but result in more visible flicker.
@Melibond64
@Melibond64 4 ай бұрын
Sub pixel light scatter is something no other technology has been able to recreate... there is something so realistic and true to the light that emits from the phosphorous grid... skin looks like skin in a way that has depth, unlike oled or even led. It's like comparing the light of an incandescent light bulb, with an led bulb that runs the light at the same colour... one fills you with warmth (yes, physically also, but... not my point), and the other just feels cold, even though the colour of the light is warm. Incandescent light bulbs emit more light in the spectrum... making it also healthier for us, and... I wonder if light from a cathode ray tube also has that...
@PALuke-bs1wt
@PALuke-bs1wt 4 ай бұрын
Check out plasma TVs, especially the 9.5g KURO Pioneers. They also use phosphors.
@Wobble2007
@Wobble2007 3 ай бұрын
You're referring to the natural incandescent nature of CRTs, which is incredible, but you are mistaken on it being exclusive to CRTs, the last few generations of Plasmas exhibited this quality quite strongly, no as much as CRTs, but especially the last two generation of Pioneer Kuro Plasma displays had beautiful incandescence.
@cereal5405
@cereal5405 Ай бұрын
The amount of hate in the comments is a bit sad. CRTs totally rock!
@hunn20004
@hunn20004 3 ай бұрын
I hate that they didn't keep even one factory running...WE GET FREAKING TN PANELS that are basically e-waste, but not CRTs which are basically required hardware for retro gaming and TV
@BlueEyedVibeChecker
@BlueEyedVibeChecker 2 ай бұрын
My favourite feature of CRTs was turning them off to make the screen go static, then holding it and touching someone to give them a static shock. That was truly the best feeling. Also I learned that rubbing your hand across a SCART connector gives you a small shock. A lot of my CRT experiences involve electric shocks.
@OCTAGRAM
@OCTAGRAM 2 ай бұрын
I sit down at PC, grab mouse by hand, get shocked into finger from mouse. USB hub reboots, monitor blanks. Then it all restores
@terrylyn
@terrylyn Ай бұрын
Finally I understood the benefit of black frame insertion, subscribed.
@drumsmoker731
@drumsmoker731 Ай бұрын
I remember when LCD monitors started to become widespread in offices in the early 2000s. Boy were they shitty. Grainy, blurry and un responsive. They only made the beancounters happy, due to less energy consumption (also for the air con) and more real-estate on the desk.
@peteagas
@peteagas 3 ай бұрын
Great video mate. I've in the past few years accumulated a few CRTs and I can definitely say a few things as a regular 4k 120hz OLED user as a our main TV. 1. 60hz VGA screens have 100% noticeable flicker, 72-75hz+ does not. I run mine at 85hz. 2. At 85hz i don't suffer any eye strain. 3. Consumer sets at 50hz have no flicker whatsoever. I regularly play games in PAL as that's my local region. No eye strain there either. 4. Sony Trinitron's are over priced or over rated. A PVM isn't worth the money or complexity to maintain and their VGA consumer sets have the damn visible damper wire which i seem to constantly notice. 5. Be prepared to pickup some technical maintenance skills as many of these items are well used and even more are tired. Be sure to test units in person before buying something, especially if you're picky or are paying a large sum for a desirable model. I'm quite curious as to why 50-60hz consumer sets have no flicker and VGA sets do. Do you have an explanation for this? Not sure if you covered it in the video.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 3 ай бұрын
It might be that TVs' scanlines linger a little longer than desktop monitors. But there may be another reason that I'm unaware of. Glad you enjoyed the video.
@peteagas
@peteagas 3 ай бұрын
@@GTXDash ahhh yes it could be the phosphors and how long they stay excited or the fact that a 15khz set scans lines slower than anything VGA which typically starts at 31khz minimum
@joelpichette
@joelpichette 3 ай бұрын
It's because the tv sets are displaying an "interlaced" picture frame instead of a "progressive" picture frame. Those "30" frames per second are actually 60 half-frames per second in usa & canada, "25" frames in Europe are actually 50 half-frames, but during those half-frames only half of the picture is drawn. There is enough content displayed to not notice the flicker. also I think GTXDash might be right about the TVs' scanlines difference of 15khz vs 31khz
@Scar32
@Scar32 7 ай бұрын
man i love watching stuff on the old tube, they should really start making CRTs again
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 7 ай бұрын
They should. Update the technology. Samsung and Sony back in the 2000s were working on new CRT tech that made the tube just a few inches thick. Would've been awesome.
@krazownik3139
@krazownik3139 5 ай бұрын
One thing that this video doesn't mention about disadvantages of CRTs is their power comsumption and influence of "environment" on the image quality. I remember from my childhood that CRT in comparison with even early LCDs looked like washed out crap with non-existing black levels and pain-inducing flickering. The reason is that during daylight CRTs were not able to produce bright enough image to win against the power of the sun, so the whole image became a grey mess. It wasn't an issue during the nighttime, but let's be honest as a kid you could not use a PC that late, or even be awaken and most people work during daylight hours. So the issue of crappy image quality was prevalent in circumstances when CRTs were meant to be used.
@GuilhermeDaSilva-zg9tj
@GuilhermeDaSilva-zg9tj 5 ай бұрын
crts are not uggly. They are very charming
@IFD2
@IFD2 7 ай бұрын
Good job dude this is actually great. Definitely will be checking in from time to time
@corey4805
@corey4805 3 ай бұрын
I wonder how awesome crt monitors would be today if they were still in development today. It would be awesome if there were brands that would take up manufacturing crt monitors again and put time into developing thinner and lighter than they used to be would be cool if it was possible.
@IBeforeAExceptAfterK
@IBeforeAExceptAfterK 3 ай бұрын
It's a nice thought, but the fundamental way in which a CRT works means there's a limit to how thin and light you can make one. Keep in mind that the picture is drawn by a particle beam fired from a single emitter at the back of the tube. It's basically the center point of a giant sphere, with the screen being the outside surface of said sphere. The thinner you make it (that is, the smaller the radius of the sphere), the smaller and more curved the screen has to be to get a legible picture. All this has to be done while maintaining a vacuum inside the tube, and I'm pretty sure the bulk of a CRT's weight back in the day already came from needing to use materials strong enough to do that. Could we improve them with the technology we have now? Probably a little, but I imagine part of the reason we stopped developing CRTs is because we were already seeing diminishing returns.
@SP95
@SP95 3 ай бұрын
At the very end, they finally found a way to emit particule beams without the need for a tube which was about to lead to actual flat panels like LCDs.
@Evelisk
@Evelisk 2 ай бұрын
Edited the dat file on my monitor to run at 240hz 480p and the smoothness is insane. I wish CRT tech kept being improved.
@smallgamesplays4958
@smallgamesplays4958 2 ай бұрын
CRT monitors are not bad and they are not ugly. They have personality and they are robust. People say they are fragile but they are not, you just have to be careful not to drop them like you have to be careful not to drop your flat monitors. Honestly I am wondering if I should invest in a nice CRT Monitor because I rarely play any FPS games.
@tommynobaka
@tommynobaka Ай бұрын
Just get any old 1280x1020 @85 17 or 19 inch of any brand, should be cheap. I have a 1280x1020 Dell M990 from 2000 and it's great. These resolution CRT's are amazing and give you the flexibility of higher def at higher refresh rate top limit while also giving insane refresh rates at lower resolutions. Plus anything bigger than 19inch imo is too big and heavy unless you have the space
@NatetheNintendofan
@NatetheNintendofan Ай бұрын
​@@tommynobakaand a gtx 1080
@scofozo
@scofozo 4 ай бұрын
Such a good video my guy, ty for explaining this
@Mr_Wh1
@Mr_Wh1 3 ай бұрын
I think the answer is in gray to gray ghosting. LCD is ghosting because of the time it takes to change a pixel from one color to another. Sometimes the time it take a pixel to change into whatever the next frame requires are longer than the time it takes for yet another frame instruction to arrive.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 3 ай бұрын
This is true. But even on fast flat panels that only take a few milliseconds for a frame to change still suffers immensely from motion blur.
@Mr_Wh1
@Mr_Wh1 3 ай бұрын
@@GTXDash What I was thinking, is that there might actually be a much larger delay than a few milliseconds per frame then what we test. For one, a detector might see the time between one moment and when there has been enough change for it to detect as another frame, but the pixels haven't reach the desired color yet. This might not in itself be as big of a problem if the being recreated is only 23.97 fps since the the time between ec frame is so long that it will reach the correct color, but trying to pump 300 fps of fast moving pictures through a LCD panel, one could imagine the picture could get a little slurry. But ultimately by seeing this transition taking place before your eyes instead of only seeing a crisp image stropping, could also add to the blurry effect? CRT pictures don't have the problem of particle filters that physically have to change alignment to block light, it will only have the aspect of the rise and decay of the fluorescent light when it's activated, which I think only translate to overall perceived image brightness? There is also the whole CRTs being additive light and LCDs being subtractive light which add to the magic experience of our beloved CRTs.
@sladebaker9882
@sladebaker9882 3 ай бұрын
Its that gray area my dad alwaya said....
@boro057
@boro057 4 ай бұрын
I remember when we all started to transition to LCDs from CRTs back in the early 2000's. Sure LCD's were new, sleek, and opened up your whole desk, but it was generally accepted that they looked way worse. The biggest issues were the worse black levels and the motion blur. There really wasn't much of a competition though, the heft of a CRT was just untenable. We all just stopped recognizing that CRT's even existed.
@mr.jamster8414
@mr.jamster8414 3 ай бұрын
What if you had a CRT with the electron gun where the stand for a LCD monitor would be, and reflected the image with a mirror?
@peterkatsoulotos7709
@peterkatsoulotos7709 3 ай бұрын
I wish I lived in an alternate reality where SED/FED tech took over LCD in 2005 and then the tiny electron emitters mimicked CRT strobing to lower motion blur.
@FehNorth
@FehNorth 4 ай бұрын
The bad part is that people like us whom like 0 lag and blur are labeled as picky and fussy. The very first time I used an LED TV I felt the horrible lag. Unfortunately in the past my family forced me to get rid of my CRT monitor because of space, it was an LG Flatron EZ 17" (t730sh), I feel sad about it but thinking over and over will only make me feel worse. I will eventually buy another one. I hope that the industry will still manufacture some CRT Monitors and TVs as retro is slowly growing popular, the problem is that what dictates the trends is the mass and most don't care about purity of gaming experience. Hope never dies, I keep positive.
@bojanmajnaric
@bojanmajnaric 4 ай бұрын
The best thing about crts is the thing you can't explain to someone who hasn't experienced it: the immersion in content. It's almost like vr when compared to lcd
@joelpichette
@joelpichette 3 ай бұрын
It's the brain being saturated with information 1 pixel at a time by 1 electron beam drawing 1 pixel at a time on a screen inside a vacuum tube.
@sladebaker9882
@sladebaker9882 3 ай бұрын
And you definitely! Cannot explain to people who weren't visually trained to recognize frames at 1/20th of a second. At 0.005 seconds was where I began to notice anti-gravity effects on a broad scale... my goodness - outerspace not having gravity means that light goes both directions so fast that it alters gravity itself... that is what the physics engine realspace2 produced into the world.... the theory became a reality 100%.
@Shadi8694
@Shadi8694 2 ай бұрын
Crt have been improved as FED and SED but it never came to fruition.
@BobofWOGGLE
@BobofWOGGLE Ай бұрын
So to sum it up, you can push as many new frames to the display as you want but if it's not clearing/blanking the old frames first you've got motion blur.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash Ай бұрын
Exactly. Especially if the blanking is longer than when a frame is visible. BRI is very limited in this regard. This is why backlight strobing is what display manufacturers should continue to improve on.
@MrJafar
@MrJafar Ай бұрын
I always ask myself why I always enjoyed to watch movies on CRT TVs or monitors. Something was right.
@maalikserebryakov
@maalikserebryakov Ай бұрын
you were younger back then. Life felt more wonderful in general. Now you’re old, experienced and bored.
@MrJafar
@MrJafar Ай бұрын
@@maalikserebryakov interesting perspective. I'm just 38.
@ibleminen
@ibleminen 5 ай бұрын
I think one of the reasons why crt got replaced very quickly in offices is because lcds have a more clear picture and is less blurry which helps with text.
@ahmet4yildirim
@ahmet4yildirim 29 күн бұрын
These monitors are just for fun. An average guy shouldn't use them as a primary monitor. The eye fatigue is real and painful. All that flickering gave me so much headache that I remember why the hell I always had headaches while playing some games in my childhood.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 29 күн бұрын
Yeah, only use for gaming
@annie_the_great
@annie_the_great 4 ай бұрын
It's a shame CRT monitors are no longer being produced or improved on
@proletariennenaturiste
@proletariennenaturiste Ай бұрын
I think CRT monitors are beautiful, unironically.
@ChairmanMeow1
@ChairmanMeow1 20 сағат бұрын
My friend had a giant ViewSonic CRT and its still one of the best pictures Ive ever seen.
@generischgesichtslosgeneri3781
@generischgesichtslosgeneri3781 5 ай бұрын
120Hz BFI on an OLED was the closest we get to good motion resolution. Guess what, they dumped it...
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 5 ай бұрын
Wait... what? Who did? The manufacturers?
@Heymisterbadguy
@Heymisterbadguy 4 ай бұрын
@@GTXDash LG C1/G1 are the latest OLEDS that support 120hz BFI; even then, they have a (slightly) lower motion resolution than the CX and GX models. Following models (C2, G2, C3, G3 and etc) have BFI but it does not work in 120hz mode. No other major OLED tv manufacturers have good BFI modes. Aside from some oled BVMs, that's as good as it gets.
@Wobble2007
@Wobble2007 3 ай бұрын
@@Heymisterbadguy The retrotink 4K has full-fat hardware accelerated 120Hz & 240Hz BFI with HDR injection, so there is no brightness/luminance loss when using BFI, it is the best BFI algorithm to date, except for Sony's RBFI in their BVM OLED monitors, as you already stated, which is able to get smooth motion @ just 60Hz.
@Heymisterbadguy
@Heymisterbadguy 3 ай бұрын
@@Wobble2007 well it's BFI is really really nice but i dont know if it can reach the motion resolution of the C1/G1, which is not just double motion resolution (like the 4k would be since it caps at 240hz) Also, the retrotink in 240hz caps at 1080p
@Heymisterbadguy
@Heymisterbadguy 3 ай бұрын
@@Wobble2007 when I mentioned 120hz bfi, i meant bfi for 120hz sources
@w00master
@w00master 11 күн бұрын
The best thing about CRTs over the other types: no latency. Zero.
@Max_Mustermann
@Max_Mustermann 3 ай бұрын
The biggest drawback of CRT monitors is IMHO eye strain. I still remember having headaches and sore eyes after spending a late night in front of the PC during CRT days. Having to deal with image geometry and soft corners was also a bit of a pain with CRTs.
@jskilabe5986
@jskilabe5986 3 ай бұрын
did you have your crt at 85Hz? I get the same issue when I run my CRT at 60Hz, but I don't get it while at 85Hz+
@Max_Mustermann
@Max_Mustermann 3 ай бұрын
@@jskilabe5986 I don't remember for sure, but I think it was around 75 Hz. With 60 Hz the flickering was unbearable even for shorter periods.
@megabytesofrem
@megabytesofrem 18 күн бұрын
They were cool but my eyes never want to go back to flickering. I am perfectly happy with my 165hz IPS monitor
@johnnycakes5708
@johnnycakes5708 7 ай бұрын
amazing video you deserve so much more
@DmanDmax
@DmanDmax 4 ай бұрын
Honestly the video capture of the CRT screen makes it look like complete garbage. It doesn't really deliver the point being made.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 4 ай бұрын
Even the OLED is not experienced only until seen in real life.
@Cory_
@Cory_ 2 ай бұрын
My 20 year old 17 inch Dell CRT looks smoother than a 180hz freesync LCD that I just bought and returned. It's really frustrating.
@astreakaito5625
@astreakaito5625 13 күн бұрын
Great video! I just honestly wouldn't downplay how great BFI modes are in a select few recent oled tvs, especially the LG CX/C1 and a few PC monitors tuned by Blurbuster. They can absolutely reach or surpass CRT's motion clarity. an LGC1 at 120hz with BFI maxed is incredible for videogames! It took basically 2 decades but we're getting there, finally.
@plows2940
@plows2940 Ай бұрын
I wish I could get my hands on a decent quality CRT that wasn't over $100
@randomgamingin144p
@randomgamingin144p Ай бұрын
@@bylectricagarmoniya they arent
@vadnegru
@vadnegru Ай бұрын
If you are ok with CRTs or Backlight strobing on modern displays, i honestly envy you. Here is my story. I used CRTs in school and university and i had headache after some time. Bigger and flat ones were better for me, but still painful after an hour. Some of them ran at 100hz at 768p, also not helping much. Not happening on TV, but i viewed them from quire far. Never had that on TN, IPS, OLED. Friends VA also was okay, but I didn't had them personally. On another hand, my cheap 144hz TN has noticeable motion blur. If i use Backlight strobing it does reduce blur significantly, almost to none. But my eyes hurt after a few minutes. I guess I'm sensitive to that thing.
@casedistorted
@casedistorted Ай бұрын
yeah I never had headaches looking at CRT's growing up in the 90's, but I got headaches a lot while staring at LCD monitors once those became a thing.
@Zhuk-zc8es
@Zhuk-zc8es 4 ай бұрын
I liked the great explanation of motion blur.
@TTURKI
@TTURKI 19 күн бұрын
if you ever want to use these i suggest to get a sunglasses and an eye drop to use every 5 minutes because i remember these was painful to look at for more than 1 hour
@smallgamesplays4958
@smallgamesplays4958 2 ай бұрын
Honestly I would pay real money for a nice CRT monitor. I rarely play super competitive games.
@goblinphreak2132
@goblinphreak2132 3 ай бұрын
you point around 7 minute mark is exactly why I push for black frame insertion in modern displays. because these MF dont realize increasing refresh rate doesn't matter if you can't drive it. currently on the oled_gaming subreddit, you can find people literally buying $800-1400 OLED displays but their computer can't even drive them properly. And its just insane. I could drive a 360hz OLED playing counter strike 2 or hunt showdown or world of warcraft, but most gamers cannot. What would be superior is having an LCD/OLED that mimics a CRT in terms of pixels on vs pixels off, giving that same illusion to our eyes that give us such perfect motion clarity. If they developed an OLED that was say 240hz and included a true black frame insertion mode that kept the full refresh rate, it would be pretty sweet. As it stands, modern BFI will generally double your visual performance. 120hz + BFI looks exactly the same as native 240hz. 240hz + BFI would look like native 480hz.... and obviously having less fps, BFI helps improve. Sure, new 4k monitors are coming that are 240hz, and have a 120hz BFI mode (runs in 240hz mode, but only every other frame is displayed, so frame black frame black frame black and so on). sure, for console, that 120hz + BFI mode might be awesome, but most people already have 120hz OLED gaming TV's with BFI.... not to mention television BFI is superior because both LG and SONY (the top brands for oled tv's) use a "rolling scan" black frame insertion. and it works. hell my sony xperia 1 mark 2 uses a rolling scan BFI and its only 60hz but feels like 120hz. its amazing. watching movies/anime on my phone in bed is way nicer than watching anime/movies on my PC gaming monitor, simply because my aw3423dw 3440x1440 175hz oled doesn't have BFI. so you get extreme judder in panning shots and its clear as day in anime.... yet on my phone which is oled + BFI you can't even tell it exists.... I would kill for a proper 240hz+BFI oled gaming monitor. sadly, we aren't getting it yet. i had that shitty ips viewsonic blur busters certified 1080p display which had BFI at 60, 120, and 240hz.... 60hz bfi made my eyes hurt. it was atrocious. 120hz + bfi wasn't bad, but looked like native 240hz.... and then 240hz vs 240hz+bfi was no difference because pixel response wasn't good enough to show a difference. so technically its ;capped to 240hz with or without BFI. however OLED actually has TRUE sub 1ms pixel response, so any BFI at any level would be amazing. I really want 240hz+BFI.... true 240hz BFI. a solution to the native aliasing on crt displays for LCD/OLED? honeycomb subpixel structure. instead of a subpixel of red/green/blue we need a technology where 1 subpixel can produce the entire range of color in one subpixel. have it in a honeycomb/hexagonal setup. and since the subpixels would be so small, you end up with a sharper display as the PPI would be much much higher.
@hishamlabs
@hishamlabs Ай бұрын
What a great video thanks for the cool information
@mhenrique4860
@mhenrique4860 2 ай бұрын
Nothing beats a crt! And I have an oled c1, a crt and a plasma so I can say it because I am always comparing... specially the movement of cameras that are very noticed on oled/lcd but not at all on a crt...
@imakenovids8621
@imakenovids8621 4 ай бұрын
I really hope we'll get SED/FED monitors one day although I doubt it... Great video btw!
@thej3799
@thej3799 29 күн бұрын
I wish I still had one. I used to have a 21" Mitsubishi. I miss it. I would even take a 21" ViewSonic that's how much I want one.
@dave24-73
@dave24-73 4 ай бұрын
LCD/LED has always been inferior but could you imagine how deep a 100” crt would need to be. I still have a CRT monitor for retro gaming, but you need a deep desk, modern monitors take up so little room.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 4 ай бұрын
If manufacturers continued building CRTs, they would've improved on the technology the same that LCDs continued to improve. Samsung (before canceling it) got a 30" CRT to be only a few inches thick. That being said, I think the industry needs to keep working on OLED technology to get to the reduction of motion blur that CRTs were able to achieve.
@Splarkszter
@Splarkszter 4 ай бұрын
​@@GTXDash i agree that OLED is the kind of tech we should be supporting.
@Wobble2007
@Wobble2007 3 ай бұрын
@@GTXDash Can't wait for multi-stack RGB-OLED with native HDR-RBFI, which will tide us over until eQD which will hopefully have a native rolling-scan modulation method.
@agus.lorenzo
@agus.lorenzo 2 ай бұрын
The PS3 on my widescreen 480p crt at 30fps plays smoother than many PS5 games on my Oled. Not even kidding, just try Resistance, amazingly smooth 30fps.
@blubblurb
@blubblurb 2 ай бұрын
Many PS5 Games run in 30 FPS. But yes, CRT always feel smoother at the same frame rate.
@coreywallace8726
@coreywallace8726 6 ай бұрын
I love CRT tvs. I still have my "40inch" Toshiba CRT. Play my PS4 on it. The image clarity, sound (bass/treble/theator quality surround sound), color depth, contrast, etc are amazing to me. One of the many things I love about my CRT (and it's a major plus) is that the image & sound quality have not decreased at all over the years. Nor has the image started to look washed out/overlit. Every HD tv I've had (top brands too) have always lost image & sound quality as they start to age & always end up looking washed out. My CRT Toshiba still looks & sounds just as great as the day I bought it. Great video!
@greatwavefan397
@greatwavefan397 4 ай бұрын
Sound from a CRT TV is always perfect
@MaybeTiberius
@MaybeTiberius Ай бұрын
bro... not saying i dont like crts but i m not sure if i can take a person serious that talks sound from tv speakers... what about you just get an actual amplifier and speakers and use those instead?
@alyxoj1361
@alyxoj1361 2 ай бұрын
Yeah when you go back to crt from playing on a flatpanel, plugging in like a Mega Drive into a CRT and pressing jump buttom feels like the character is jumping slightly before you press it. Not a joke it genuinely feels like that. Obviously impossible but its more of a feeling thing, must be something to with your brain being adjusted to lag.
@user-yv6xw7ns3o
@user-yv6xw7ns3o 6 ай бұрын
I think this vid and your channel are destined to blow up. This video is excellent!
@ZacFrazier
@ZacFrazier 4 ай бұрын
On the topic of latency, do hdmi or display port to vga converters add latency? If so would you know how much? On my CRT it doesn't feel noticeable but I'm just curious what penalty conversion brings
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 4 ай бұрын
There's a tiny bit of latency from hdmi to vga or dp to vga. However, because a CRT doesn't wait for an internal frame buffer before drawing the frame on screen, a CRT even with an active converter still has a lot less lag than an LCD.
@Wobble2007
@Wobble2007 3 ай бұрын
Can be a frame or two, some like the higher quality delock converters can be as low as a few scanlines of latency (which is nothing), so it depends on the DAC quality.
@MagicCowboyGeek
@MagicCowboyGeek Ай бұрын
You're making me want to give my CRTs another try. I already knew about what you told in this video but sometimes, an ultrawide monitor is good.
@casedistorted
@casedistorted Ай бұрын
Yeah I picked up 3 CRT's on the side of the road and the Sony Trinitron 32inch that I got is just amazing. Plugging in a Super Nintendo with Composite cable looks almost crystal clear, there's no latency, and no blurring or ghosting. It just looks incredible, and it has a warmer glow that feels more alive than the artificial light that my LCD gives off.
@htechtgarisc7559
@htechtgarisc7559 7 ай бұрын
11:11 I own both a CRT display @60 Hertz(It's a Sanyo VM4209) and a gaming monitor(BenQ EX2780Q @144 hertz) and I can affirm your claim. They both feel about as smooth to use despite being made about 45 years apart.
@wickedstudios7477
@wickedstudios7477 4 ай бұрын
great video. i have a mitsubishi 2060u, 22 inch 120khz. running it at 800x600 at 160hz it has the smoothest image ive ever seen in person
@Wobble2007
@Wobble2007 3 ай бұрын
These are arguably Mitsubishi's best tubes they ever produced, better quality as far as fidelity and IQ than the slightly newer 2070SB tube, much like Sony's GDM-5002PT9 being better than the GDM-F520, despite being older, it's the phosphor quality and electronics being slight better in the slightly older models for some reason.
@brandonwilkinson
@brandonwilkinson 4 ай бұрын
Black frame insertion done well on modern tvs would definitely make crt obsolete
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 4 ай бұрын
I hope so. If it's a high refresh rate display where 5 out of 6 frames are black while the 1 is bright enough to compensate for the 5x darkening caused by those 5 frames. Sounds outrageous but that's really what it's gonna take to reach that level of no motion blur that CRTs are known for.
@brandonwilkinson
@brandonwilkinson 4 ай бұрын
@@GTXDash yes
@Wobble2007
@Wobble2007 3 ай бұрын
Standard BFI, that is straight impulse modulation can not produce the same type of motion IQ and performance that raster-scan CRTs can, so for BFI to make CRTs obsolete, they will need to come up with an effective "race the beam" algorithm to simulate raster-scan, this will also need to simulate the incredibly fast phosphor decay times and phosphor glow and all that good stuff that CRTs have, the hardest thing to match will be the CRTs incredible native image depth, which with a good quality input source can be almost three-dimensional, looking glass, aka light-field tech is a good candidate.
@sideact2044
@sideact2044 Ай бұрын
Great Video!
@notquiteretro5296
@notquiteretro5296 5 ай бұрын
This is an excellent video. Very informative and clearly argued. Well done!
@rebaner88
@rebaner88 12 күн бұрын
wow dude this is such a great video I can't believe it only has 33k views and you don't even have 2k subs... damn...
@daddysakurai1594
@daddysakurai1594 4 ай бұрын
Very well made video. Like.
@AlejandroRodolfoMendez
@AlejandroRodolfoMendez 4 ай бұрын
Crt started to died when there was a attempt at 29 inches TV that didn't last longer than the other small ones.
@user-mp9hz3cu6o
@user-mp9hz3cu6o 10 күн бұрын
Does that mean someone would have to make monitors or TVs that have a flicker based on the screen literally turning off for a millisecond?? seems more eficient that the black frame thing because the blur will still be there even if its all black because the monitor isnt stopping image output entirely, like the CRT did with their flickering flaw.
@alyxoj1361
@alyxoj1361 2 ай бұрын
Everything you said is indeed fact APART FROM.....when you said CRT's are ugly. They are beautiful goddessess.
@mr.jamster8414
@mr.jamster8414 3 ай бұрын
15:13 IMO the Kega Fusion composite is a bit *too* blurry, should be a middle option that has ~213 horizontal lines and another that doesn't completely blur the image so you can still see dithering but it's less obvious.
@testtube173
@testtube173 2 ай бұрын
You are a hero
@testtube173
@testtube173 2 ай бұрын
Have you dabbled with black frame insertion on OLED monitors? I have a lgc1 tv that does it. It Darkens the picture a lot and the flicker feels noticeable but it seems to help a lot with blur. I've been thinking about this quest we've been on to get to where we were 30 years ago and it makes me mad lol. These 1000 dollar alternatives are only just now approaching CRT levels of clarity and it's very unsustainable when you account for new games with better visuals and higher pixel counts. The industry is full of snake oil too with things like frame generation which increases input lag and decrease responsiveness to appear better.😢 I'd but a new CRT if a company started making them again.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 2 ай бұрын
@testtube173 Even I play newer games on a modern display. It really does depend where the tradeoff of motion clarity for image sharpness/resolution no longer becomes worth it. BFI is better than nothing, but even without it, I still generally only play games on my CRT if they predate the 2010s.
@fokuscs
@fokuscs Күн бұрын
according to first 3 minutes of video, there is actually anti blur technology which flickers on LCD panles but only on BenQ/Zowie monitors called "Blur Reduction" or newer "DyAC"
@fokuscs
@fokuscs Күн бұрын
TLDR; DyAc on Zowie simulates that flicker like on CRT
@GTXDash
@GTXDash Күн бұрын
Never seen one in person. I would love to, though.
@shaneholly11
@shaneholly11 2 күн бұрын
They really need to start remaking the CRTs
@MabelOkami
@MabelOkami 7 ай бұрын
great video
@elu9780
@elu9780 6 ай бұрын
I have a CRT monitor I got free from someone and I love it. It has downsides like, yeah, size and danger if dropped or if I ever need to repair to, but it works better for me. I game at 1024x768 at 118Hz (the best I can get out of it), and it actually works *very* well, I oftentimes forget that it's not 1080p. As long as I have antialiasing enabled, at least. I did have to scrub the damaged anti-glare coating off it because otherwise it was awful, so I can't really use it without having the curtains closed in my room. I will not be getting any new LCD or any flat panel monitor until I can get something that is as good as a CRT in picture quality and feel. And I do wish I could exchange resolution for refresh rate on modern monitors.
@guyclegg
@guyclegg 6 ай бұрын
Extremely underrated channel.
@averagecircleclicker6486
@averagecircleclicker6486 7 ай бұрын
165hz feels just perfect
@sphericmystifiedaberration9469
@sphericmystifiedaberration9469 6 ай бұрын
I"m still using my CRT for playing games, sometimes i use the LED ones for some games and aplications such as Adobe Animate, Blender, Premiere but my main playing monitor is the CRT one, Motion Clarity even at 60 hertz is another level, there is no modern scream that come even close to what CRTs can make, there's no input lag, colors are great, natural bloom, black levels.. CRT is the king.
@Melibond64
@Melibond64 4 ай бұрын
I forgot the name of the tech... it was supposed to replace CRT with a pixel grid structure like LCD, but, each pixel was a very small cathode ray tube like pixel... that would've been a good replacement... I think. Maybe, though, the motion blur would still be a problem with that as well.
@ShankMods
@ShankMods 4 ай бұрын
FED / SED
@Melibond64
@Melibond64 4 ай бұрын
@@ShankMods thank you
@Wobble2007
@Wobble2007 3 ай бұрын
@@ShankMods Makes me sad every time I think about SED & FED, even Pioneer's Kuro tech got shut down, seems like quailty displays are only destined for the professional grade markets.
@ShankMods
@ShankMods 3 ай бұрын
@@Wobble2007 I have high hopes for Electroluminescent Quantum Dot and MicroLED
@pet9838
@pet9838 7 ай бұрын
Could you "emulate" a CRT with a 240HZ Monitor, if your PC/Console can only render 60Hz by only displaying an Image only every 4 Frames and leaving the other 3 Frames black?
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 7 ай бұрын
Yeah. I've only seen 1/2 Black Frame Insertion before but not 3/4. However, I don't see why it wouldn't work.
@blubblurb
@blubblurb 2 ай бұрын
I tried 120Hz + BFI on my OLED (the LG 65 G1 can do that). It passed the UFO test for me. Regardless of the speed I couldn't see any motion blur anymore. But 120Hz without BFI was already quite good.
@Pe721
@Pe721 Ай бұрын
Can you see the gap between the eyes of the alien?
@edduflema6050
@edduflema6050 22 күн бұрын
I might have missed it but other advantage crt has over new monitors is that, because of the lower resolution you can choose, games at that resolution benefits in performance but at the same time they look better at that resolution in crt than a newer monitor because of how crt works. The only downside of them are maybe HUD elements that are programmed with higher res in mind being out of proportion
@a15an
@a15an 2 ай бұрын
love the sudden pop 2008
@andylaugel4241
@andylaugel4241 11 күн бұрын
I used a 17" CRT monitor next to a 22" LCD a few months back. The CRT would often develop a painful high pitched squeel. The CRT was dimmer & took a few seconds to reach peak brightness. The CRT's text was blurry. The CRT's image needed tweeking a bunch of settings to be mostly square and centered--and changing the resolution meant all those settings went wonky. I didn't really care about the weight and bulk when I later replaced the CRT with another LED monitor.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 11 күн бұрын
That just sounds like a crappy CRT.
@Gatitasecsii
@Gatitasecsii 23 сағат бұрын
Not to mention how much cheaper a much bigger/higher resolution LCD would be...
@Gatitasecsii
@Gatitasecsii 23 сағат бұрын
​@@GTXDash That just sounds like moving the goal post.
@milk_yt
@milk_yt 3 ай бұрын
There is still aliasing, but I get what you mean about it. I went to check it on my CRT and I guess it seemed less noticeable, playing with 640x480 had the same amount of aliasing as playing 1280x720 on my other PC with a normal monitor; it may be because of the game though.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 3 ай бұрын
Only at the monitors' max resolution does the aliasing stop being so noticeable.
@Yuri-ym3kb
@Yuri-ym3kb 2 ай бұрын
I never stopped using them
@FennekinFox326
@FennekinFox326 16 күн бұрын
My mom's old CRT television still works perfectly, meanwhile my 6 month old monitor keeps getting dead pixels.
@Gatitasecsii
@Gatitasecsii 23 сағат бұрын
Ridiculous, I have a 7 year old LCD TV and it still works flawlessly.
@netimmerse
@netimmerse 12 күн бұрын
11:05 PAL 50hz televisions are notorious for their noticeable flicker even on consumer TVs with relatively slow decaying phosphors (which, however, were good enough to display 60hz content without flicker). This was also the reason why 100hz european televisions with digital preprocessing were made (which is an absolute bummer and also the reason for HDTV CRT televisions being primarily in NTSC countries). This is an additional issue: the slower the phosphor decay is, the less noticeable the flicker on lower refresh rates is, and the more noticeable are blur trails on high contrast moving content (mouse pointer on a black background, for example) still much more bearable than any sample-and-hold LCD tho
@acesretroonline
@acesretroonline 14 күн бұрын
A way around that is to just pulse the backlight to each new frame.
@astreakaito5625
@astreakaito5625 13 күн бұрын
that's what BFI mode do yeah
@mr.electronx9036
@mr.electronx9036 5 ай бұрын
I use 21 inch crt monitor with 140khz...this monitor with 85Hz is faster than my gaming oled monitor with 144hz and g sync on.
@IFD2
@IFD2 7 ай бұрын
Makes me wonder if there is a in between technology that could exist. Like what would happen if we remade crt monitors?
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 7 ай бұрын
Yep. Some kind of in-between tech would be a good idea. Some way to get the light of a flatpanel to strobe really fast or something.
@crestofhonor2349
@crestofhonor2349 7 ай бұрын
There apparently is one but it's not very common
@jeremyandrews3292
@jeremyandrews3292 5 ай бұрын
There almost was one. SED/FED was explored, but never really went anywhere. If it had worked out, though, we would have had something very much like a CRT in a thinner form factor. If someone seriously wanted to revive that technology today, they would probably want to start from where SED/FED left off rather than go all the way back to CRTs, given that they'd have to be making new tooling and such.
@tomyyoung2624
@tomyyoung2624 Ай бұрын
Yes, you have to use Virtual DVD-ROM/CD/Utility
@rockapartie
@rockapartie 9 күн бұрын
Regarding anti-aliasing: Lack thereof isn't _that_ much of an issue in old games, but many games from the last 10 years or so require it, because there's so much fine detail going on, that only temporal anti-aliasing can get rid of. (With the side effect of introducing noticeable image blur, especially at lower resolutions ...) Rise of the Tomb Raider was the first game where I really noticed that. Even at 4k and with "classic" AA solutions (initially, it did not ship with temporal AA; DLSS was added later), you couldn't get rid of the flickering.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 9 күн бұрын
100% agree. I'm actually working on a video that goes into detail of all the different methods of AA, both old and new. Discusses benefits and disadvantages of each method. Not sure when the video will be done.
@GodOfGamingBG
@GodOfGamingBG 7 ай бұрын
I have a 21" IBM P275 (fd trinitron tube) that can do 1024x768 at 120hz or 1600x1200 at 100hz, it's super awesome for retro gaming, and only paid like 10 bucks for it. Wish I could also get a FW900 to use for modern gaming but no luck so far
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 7 ай бұрын
Those are some pretty impressive specs
@elu9780
@elu9780 6 ай бұрын
I bet it can do even more than 120Hz at 1024x768. My own can do 118Hz at that resolution, I couldn't get it any higher. Meanwhile, I can only hope for 75Hz on 1600x1200. Try to see if you can squeeze a higher refresh rate out of it.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 6 ай бұрын
@@elu9780 Depends on the monitor.
@GodOfGamingBG
@GodOfGamingBG 6 ай бұрын
@@elu9780 yeah, thats just the default EDID, technically it can go all the way to 170, at least for the lowest resolutions. However I really do not need any more, 120 is plenty already. VR which is most sensitive to lattency and whatnot does fine with just 90
@Gigcomplex
@Gigcomplex 3 ай бұрын
I am from the world of PAL
@Gigcomplex
@Gigcomplex 3 ай бұрын
And I have sonic 2 on the sega mega drive
@kalle5548
@kalle5548 18 күн бұрын
Didn't really get why Oled can't come close to matching CRT in motion clarity, the near instantaneous pixel response time and black frame insertion would create a very similar effect, at the cost of brightness, whilst having all those other benefits, and a 4k display can drop to 1080p losslessly, just dispay 4 of the same pixel. Yes Oled will never look exactly like CRT but is CRT the end all be all best technology?
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 18 күн бұрын
Nobody said that.
@sunderkeenin
@sunderkeenin 18 күн бұрын
The problem is that they aren't doing that. That's exactly the issue. I've been chomping at the bit for OLED with heavier BFI for ages because I'm in a light-controlled environment where I won't mind the brightness lost so much and it just isn't available still.
@potato_burner
@potato_burner 15 күн бұрын
I agree with everything but refresh rate with low fps. There is actually no connection between both. There is definitely a big noticeble difference between 60hz and 144hz at locked 30fps in game. So the main rule for the refresh rate - higher is always better, despite the fps. After about 20 years fast OLEDs are finally coming, so people would be able to see and feel how it was on CRTs back in the days in case of motion blur. My fav preferences were 800x600x120hz in the beginning of 2000s.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 15 күн бұрын
I use high-refresh rate displays, and it feels nothing like a CRT. That's how I know you haven't used a CRT before, or at least recently.
@zyzU400Kg
@zyzU400Kg 15 күн бұрын
@@GTXDash today we pay good money for the best monitors for competitive gaming, like Beng XL2566K TN 360hz when imo a crt with 120hz was way cheaper and the feeling... buttery smooth
@ashtonriches7295
@ashtonriches7295 7 ай бұрын
The issues with crts, while covered are underplayed here for sure, number one being you can only buy used and burn in can be an issue so the supply is dwindling. Noise causes by the crt is another issue. Also the claims of crts being cheap or free because you can only buy used is disingenuous. Lcd monitors can be acquired in the same way, and much easier imo. Finally you don't even mention how fatiguing the flicker can be for a considerable portion of people. This makes crt unusable in many situations for people, and is a major reason crts are dead. This video does a good job at sharing benefits of crts, but I mostly take issue with the title declaring then better.
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 7 ай бұрын
There are caveats to everything. Keep in mind, just because I made a statement on how there are things a CRT is good at doesn't necessarily mean some of these things don't overlap with LCDs. I would never use a CRT to browse the web or edit a video as an example. There's a lot of things a CRT is worse at and which I did cover. There's definitely more I can mention, but I had to stop somewhere. There's nothing disingenuous about the title of the video. Definitely opinionated for sure but not disingenuous.
@ashtonriches7295
@ashtonriches7295 7 ай бұрын
I did not mean to imply the title was disingenuous, just the statement that crts are cheaper (or free) than LCDs, while the used market for both is similar
@ashtonriches7295
@ashtonriches7295 7 ай бұрын
I did enjoy the video though, just sharing some things I believed to be overlooked
@LucasCunhaRocha
@LucasCunhaRocha 6 ай бұрын
CRTs went away also for another reason, power consumption, in the late 90s computer usage exploded, everyone in their offices started using a computer, having CRTs using all that power and generating heat would only create more problems in the long run as well factoring the other mentioned problems like size and weight. Oh yeah, also because laptops and notebooks also became much more popular and LCDs are the only thing you can use on those, so why have 2 factories to produce 2 different screen technologies when you can just have one factory making LCDs for all markets?
@belstar1128
@belstar1128 13 күн бұрын
why didn't i and most people notice these advantages back in the mid 2000s when we started moving to flat screens and it was seen as way better ?
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 13 күн бұрын
The thing is, many of us did notice it. But because of marketing, the convenience of a display that wasn't the size of a microwave oven, and the prospect of the technology improving way beyond the capabilities of "the now obsolete old tube tech" made us believe we were getting something better, which in many ways, we did. flat panel displays have outdone CRTs in almost everyway possible ...almost. However, display manufactures are indeed still working on the problem. But, because it has been so long since people have even laid eyes on a CRT, almost nobody remembers what a CRT looks like anymore. So most people don't have that perspective to do a proper comparison. But also, most people didn't play video games. Movies are at 24fps as are many tv shows. 24fps is marginally better in terms of motion clarity on a CRT than LCD, but it's very subtle, so gaming truly is the only reason to keep using a CRT, especially when it comes to retro games. I'm not saying we should go back to CRTs permanently, we have made way more progress with LCDs and OLEDs. But in the meantime, CRTs will still have a spot on my desk until a display manufacture makes a breakthrough in completely eliminating motion blur. Man. That was a long comment. Probably should do a video about this 😄
@varvarvarvarvarvar
@varvarvarvarvarvar 12 күн бұрын
We did! The early flat screens were NOTORIOUS for having a lag. In the beginning it was so bad your freaking mouse cursor would leave an observable white trail. We were waiting on them to get _marginally_ usable only because of weight. A big CRT monitor weights 25 kilos, a large TV would weight twice. Also no problem with image geometry as a bonus. But lag was always there.
@Jackpkmn
@Jackpkmn 9 күн бұрын
@@varvarvarvarvarvar Power consumption was a problem too. My Dell Ultrascan from 1999 chugs down 170-210w of power. I've got a portable 120hz 1440p monitor that runs on 20w of power.
@Fernando-Rodriguez
@Fernando-Rodriguez 5 ай бұрын
we need brand new 24 inch CRT monitors and consumer TVs, bigger than 24 is not economic to manufacture. I hope one of the TV manufacturers finally sees the market for this kind of product and start producing them. I recently ran DOOM in PCem which emulated old 1980s and 1990s PCs, and it looks horrible on my display that's why I will definitely buy a CRT.
@mesmersie8465
@mesmersie8465 16 сағат бұрын
2:32 what game is this? looks very interesting
@GTXDash
@GTXDash 14 сағат бұрын
@@mesmersie8465 Prince of Persia (2008)
@argoneum
@argoneum 5 ай бұрын
Well, there are two different FPS: one is displayed FPS and one is rendered FPS. Before Nvidia's G-Sync tried to make them the same this is how displays worked. If you turned off VSYNC in your game there would be tearing, and you could "display" 200fps on a 60Hz screen (sort-of, not really ofc.). The opposite is also true: you can render things at 30fps with say 90Hz refresh rate, each frame will be drawn 3 times then. Still, you make very interesting points in this video, and my 30kg of mostly glass CRT monitor indeed displays motion better than the S-IPS LCD I still use. I wouldn't say that the difference is huge, maybe my eyes aren't sensitive to the effect. It was far worse on a PVA monitor I had before: great for photos, perfect black, good colors, terrible for motion, despite also having a "60Hz refresh". Guess several frames got blurred together there.
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