I've always been interested in ancient history, and as far as I'm concerned, the older the better. But you've introduced me to a time especially with PIE that simply doesn't get enough attention yet is basically the genesis of so many of the myths and cultures that do. Your channel is the most accessible way to learn about this time. Thanks and I hope you keep making more videos.

New to your channel. I am an ancient history buff. To me that includes the religion and culture of a society. Your videos are so insightful and I have always wanted to look into myths and compare their similarities. Thank you ❤️

I enjoyed this video a lot. I have read myths (mostly Greek & Roman) since I was quite young. It always amazed me how there were so many similarities between the myths I read and the Bible. Thank you for your videos.

I’ve come to see these stories as having value for what they teach us about being human. Resurrection has power for us because it’s an essential part of our human experience. Each spring nature is resurrected from its slumber.

I always enjoy your posts and learn something from you on the topic at hand.

Just discovered your videos and I cannot stop watching. Awesome work, loving the channel.

Revisiting history in a new light of knowledge, and a profound heritage!

Sharing this with the resource section of Recovering from Religion (I volunteer there). I've heard of some of these stories but not all of them - excellent! Thanks, Jon!

Mr. White, firstly, THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH for your amazing content and the countless hours spent conducting proper background research, and especially for the way you communicate these concepts in a way that's easily digested by the masses! Second, I've just in the past couple of weeks stumbled upon Crecganford, and I just can't stop watching your videos. I have always been supremely fascinated (in a hobbyist/learn for fun way) with archeology, literal human evolution, and the evolution of our culture and humanity. One of my favorite things to ponder is "Did "God" create humans, or did religion(s) arise as part of our cultural evolution and then did we create god/God?"

I like the tangible connection to my pre-Christian ancestors. It's like my friend said, "How do you go about creating a new religion? You copy what you already do, just rebrand it." I still believe there was a Jesus whether that was really his name or not. But he was just a very charismatic person who had a lot of rebellious things to say both in a religious and, more so, a political sense. He had to go one way or another. I say he was a human and not a god because my friend from Iran who is a staunch Christian does not say "Jesus is my Savior." She says, "Jesus is my prophet." Vast distinction here. I thoroughly enjoy the thoughtful discussion in your video. If more would think and research instead of just react, I think our world would be much saner.

Thank you so much. It was wonderful to listen to these stories.

Fascinating information. Thank you for presenting what you've learned.

I love your content! Thank you for what you do

I check back a little in the catalog. This one is really on point. I like it. Bless👋

“Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story”. I don’t know who said that, but it’s something I was told that stuck with me over the years. We humans like stories, whether it’s fiction or not. And the best stories last for a long time, getting told over and over again. I find a lot of Christians (Not ALL!) incredibly egotistical. Thinking that THEIR stories are real, and others’ are not. But like I said, not all Christians. Honestly I love how stories bring us together. Commonalities make us more human. Lots of lessons to take away from common themes in stories, more so than one version of said stories.

Preach, brother 🙌🏽

While I am enchanted by the scholarship that sits behind these videos, I suspect they will not change the beliefs of anyone who thinks the Christian mythology is more than just another in a long line of tales we humans have invented since we became capable of speech. As the ethnologist Robert Sapolski of Stanford University remarked, "you can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into."

Thank you. This is perfect for what I'm going through. You are smart! 💗

@Crecganford Today I discovered your channel and I've been binging it all morning! What a great channel to tell the stories that influenced the writings of the bible! If you would be willing, I would love to see a video on the Jewish "scapegoat" ritual & it's origins and possible pagan influences. As you can see from my alias, I am sympathetic to the scapegoat, Azazel, to whom all sin is to be ascribed. I have no doubt this ritual is at least partially taken from pagan rites. Thank you for your scholarly approach to these religious and mythological tales.

Very interesting, well put and worthwhile debate. Speaking for myself it is crazy how even after analysing this story and allowing logic to lead me to the conclusion that not only is the story itself mostly fiction a lot of the ideas that come with it are superstition that can be quite harmful it permeates the psyche so much and so discretely that one has to be very careful that thought processes are not distorted. Most of what is worthwhile in the bible is allegory and present in other religions. Thanks for presenting the argument the way you have

i love your channel Jon. especially the videos on the history of Christianity et al. if one doesn't know the history of their religion, they have no idea what theyre worshipping (donating their "energy", intent, Will to).

Another great and insightful video, and I like that you came to a conclusion rather than leaving it open ended. The human story is far more complicated than we're typically shown! Hail the old gods! ⚔️

Thank you for your videos.

It just shows the immense meaning and importance of this story to human beings.

The story of El and his polytheistic, pagan origins discredits the entire basis for all the Abrahamic religions. This simple fact makes it hard for this preacher's son and former evangelical Christian to understand how anyone with this knowledge could continue to cling to belief in any of the Abrahamic religions, or religion at all for that matter.

Thanks for your content.

Thank you for providing this condensed list, I’m always open and eagered to learn and this channel is a great resource! As for the topic of judgment and faith it really depends on your framework and preconvictions. All the things you list against the validity for historical accuracy of Jesus Christ are rational, if a devote believer were to take the evidence at it’s face value and not try to discredit it in any way could say that these are stories are merely forshadowing the real son of God. That God prepared and planted the imagery into humanity before his coming…and even then they rejected and killed him. Then plug som verse from Paul in the new testament saying that the gentiles are also without excuse because God has written his law on their hearts aswell. So even without knowing the real good news about Jesus, humanity is still drawn to and has some deep subconscious knowledge of God’s love and law and are so by held accountable by this in their final judgment. From a more skeptical but yet still open framework one could use this wide set of data to draw paralells of the need for a Christ-like figure in humanity as an archtype instead, that Jesus is not real in the historic sense but in the psychological sense, also drawing in myths like the phoenix, snake shedding skin and other death and revival imagery. All in all I understand your frustration, people equipping different frameworks in a discussion can feel like talking to a wall at times, often for both the parties involved. As a last note I would also like to add that many religous people cite deep personal mystical experiences as basis for their beliefs and so spiritual stories that contextualize their lives may make more sense than cold rational facts that doesn’t necesseraily adress their issues and needs from their perspective.

i see you already published a conversation with Ricard Carrier. Well done you!

Love everything you do xxx Binge watching in London Amazing, brilliant, excellent , informative, useful, unique, wonderful, superb, mind blowing, let's help the algorithm to not be so stupid. Love your work xxx Jo (my brain is stretching as we speak)

Cool video bro I enjoy discussing ancient Gnosticism and essene beliefs would like to see you do a video on the Gnostics unless you already have one

Haha, I love how you dismantle the Christian beliefs so systematically. My grandmother is a devout Christian and if I tell her all this, she'll denounce me 😂. I've been binge-watching your content in the last couple of days, I love learning about what binds us in the world and I'm subscribing right now

I absolutely lived this lesson. You gave all mythologies. And quotes the KJV and noted that the disciples and Jesus quoted from the Old Testament. Absolutely loved it. I also agree that some people go wild with their interpretations. ❤❤❤❤❤❤ Although I do believe in Jesus as our saviour especially the book of Daniel and Revelation. 😊

Britannica - When Apollo learned that Admetus had not long to live, he persuaded the Fates, the goddesses who determine human destiny, to prolong his life. The Fates imposed the condition that someone else die in Admetus’s stead, which Alcestis, a loyal wife, consented to do. The warrior Heracles rescued Alcestis by wrestling at her grave with Death.

Great video, nice outdoor scene... Good points, gonna have to get more familiar with all this to provide more feedback :)

I wanted to thank you for this video, as many others have, but likely for a completely different reason. I am an orthodox Christian and i have been very lax, and often even questioning my faith. This video really drove home some of those questions and brought me to a bit of a spiritual dispair. So i began doing a bit of research, starting with the ending of Mark. My findings brought me back closer to my faith, rather than driving a wedge between myself and Christ. I can tell feom how you deacrive christians and faith you you find it ridiculous, and ive chosen to continue watching your chanel for the great content you provide, deapite the fact that you sneer at my faith. I know you will likely not read this message with how old this video is, but in the off chance that you did i wanted to share my experience wirh you.

Homer’s illiad & odyssey also functions as a Christ figure with resurrection before I’m more then 5 mins in. I’m excited for learning about more

….. by study we can seemingly undo a dogma or a rapturous myth but for me the promised land of a studious endeavour is one where we become aware of a deeper truth, a deeper self; where we discover the very anatomy of thinking and become witness to consciousness emerging, struggling on this third rock from the Sun …. keep it coming Crecganford

Great video!!!! Thank you for all these informative videos, that we can clearly understand.

If I might be so bold, could I put out a request for a video on the Celi-De (Ireland's Culdees) and their approach to Christianity (I believe there's a link in the web page j sent you to the Saltair na rann) the earliest version of the gospel in the isles (unless I'm mistaken). Were the monks of St.Micheal orthodox in origin (going by the beehive huts)? A discussion of the Pelasgiam "heresy" (I say Heterodoxy) would be deeply appreciated. You are so easy to listen to, and so well informed (and I think you might find it interesting). There should also be links to select early Irish laws (Brithemoin) which themselves contain remnants of Iron age (and in some cases bronze age) custom. I hope you've applied for patron support, it would lovely to see you continue

First of all awesome content, i have some question, regarding the leaking of water from jesus chest when he was pierced by the spear of longinus, i remember watching a documentary regarding how this may be a more realistic version of his resurrection, where strained by the previous torture the walk and the crucifixioun an epidural gland ended up filling with water that brough him to fainting, and how because of this he didn't suffocate but the excution by the spear instead just saved him, and then he would just wake up in the cave. There are many question this give me, but it doesn't seem such an unrealistic situation, is there any fact that can counter this? Just the water part is something i cannot explain and so seem way too fitting.

Thanks!

Yes. Good job!

Just a quick point, as a Christian, if you have been persecuted from other Christians for you own beliefs while searching for the truth, on behalf of myself and all Christians who truly do believe in love of their fellow man, I am sorry you have faced this. I will listen respectfully and with interest to your views (because I do with these videos) and ask if you can hear me as well. This is interesting. Jesus reportedly loved the book of Daniel. Also Jesus could still have existed as a physical person and important Jewish teacher even if the resurrection was not true. Other mythical stories may have been attached to his story and life afterwards. All myths tend to have a truth or a lesson buried in, so what is the common truth or lesson is behind all these resurrection stories our ancestors want us to remember? There has always been a bit of a disconnect for me between the original story of Jesus and what has become understood to me by His message. This makes more sense. I know it's considered a main cornerstone, if not THE cornerstone of being a Christian, but as one, and a non traditional thinking one (which I do not say lightly), I still believe in the importance of His teachings from that time, religion, and spirituallity, and that a resurrection is possible for a variety of medical, scientific, and just open minded reasons.... But I don't know that it is necessary to His original message It certainly helps drive the idea home though. My conclusion? People telling Jesus' story took from previous myths, but this can not rule out on it's own that a similar occurnance occurred with Jesus. And if that's 30 yrs of my own bias talking, as it may we'll be 90% likely it did not occur considering the exact similarity of these stories, then what were the writers of the stories trying to preserve? And His message and teachings remain with value of their own. I acknowledge the high possibility now the resurrection may not have occured, but that leads to many more questions that do not discount the story tellers, just asking if not the literal truth, what were you preserving? And please don't discount the rest of the messages from a Teacher, whose followers may have told a story poorly. As for eternal life, you do not need a resurrection again to prove it exists, but, how many stories exist today of life after death? Are these ressurection stories? There are other stories, and there were ghost stories even in Sumeria thousands of years ago. I can link the professor talking about those if requested. I don't think we need a resurrection story... But, why was it there, and the same one, for so long? Not as a proof to my points, I'm literally asking. Why? Just a coping technique and comfort story? If this is our natural order of this, to come to awareness and leave it, why should this cause us distress? Can we need something that does not exist? And why always the same story, or does that imply it's an old one? More questions to consider. Sorry for the rambling and book of text here, if you read this far, thank you, and thanks for the video!

hey ya know ive read a lot of these comments and the one thing i think is that no matter what some one says, your gonna believe in god even if the truth punches you in the face . i vote you don't need a god to be a moral sensible human being ,and as far as the cosmological argument not 1 human was around ever , to witness or write about what happened so people need to stop saying because we don't know therefore , god did it . plus you don't think this guy in the video didn't do his research ? whether you believe in the resurrection or not , one thing still remains evolution is still a fact .... great video ...keep up the great work ...

this is so beautifully written and 💨 twined together. i knew many of th virgin birth, etc. myths, but heaing them all in one piece was amazing and even more forceful. ( christianity appropriated so many ‘pagan’ myths, so are they really pagans? :) i, also, had no idea the messiah was written in the Torah in that way (and names Jesus, which btw, is not a Hebrew name, so i wonder what it meant in Hebrew). ‘He’ was no promised though. Orthodox Jewish people still believe a messiah will appear, while reforms and reconstructionists believe in a messianic age. i know little about the New Testament, but did know it written about 400 years after Jesus’s life. i never heard about the changes, so that was interesting. thank you soo much. and you stay safe, too 😊🌷🌱 🧝🏻‍♀️🧝🏼‍♂️

I’d love a whole video on Orpheus

1:49 The picture is Augustus. Not sure if you were just wanting any Roman figure or not. Also, not that this changes much, but I believe the myth originates in the 4th century BCE (this I had to look up because I wasn't sure when we thought it originated, but I knew the myth couldn't originate in the 8th century). The story "happens" in the middle of the 8th century BCE, with the traditional founding date of Rome at 753 BCE. But feel free to correct me, if you have some sources I can check out. This comment is a bit nitpicky, so I apologize. And I apologize more if I have something misstated. I appreciate your content!

I'm a Buddhist Priest and I've never heard the story of the crucified Buddhist God. And the name Shakyamuni that you mentioned is a name of the historical Buddha, meaning the Great Sage of the Shakya clan. I'm not saying that you are incorrect, I'm simply a bit confused, haha. Also, the only source I can find about this is in the book The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors which it self has no sources and has also been quite heavily criticized from an academic standpoint. So I was wondering where I might read more on this? In any case, thank you for yet another great video!

Philo's association of Yeshua the Rising with Logos is interesting given that some early Christians thought Jesus actually existed about 100 years before Philo's time, about when the composers of the Dead Sea Scrolls were claiming that they were awaiting the return of Melchizedek and that their own sect was founded by a Teacher of Righteousness about 50 years earlier. From this it seems Jewish messianic sects were already giving their movements a mythical founder within a generation or two whom they were identifying with a biblical priest-king.

I was a little surprised not to hear Dionysos on the list, although, I suppose, while similar, some of the details make him fairly different.

Interesting video, I just discovered yoour channel and bine watchin haha. Question, when you talk about Jesus and you refer to him as a mythical person, do you mean that you believe that he didn't exist as a person at all?

Well, as abrahamic religions and various pagan traditions did exist, well, let's call it "side by side" for a long time, it's natural that there has been substantial exchange in all directions. And I totally agree. In Germany we have religion as a subject in school, usually either protestant evangelical or catholic, depending on what you're registered as. My last teacher was a pretty open minded, modern Christian, acknowledging the fact that the bible is not an accurate historical account and is to be read with a grain of salt and lots of interpretation. However, when I brought up that a very large chunk of the stories from that book date back to older religions, she shut down the conversation. She didn't seem to want to confront the reality of those stories being older than Christianity.

Looking forward to some feedback on this...

The only one I knew of has a name I always confuse with Gandalf. Mithrandis, maybe? I was thinking you might mention him, when I realize his name is probably close to Gandalf's on purpose! He also dies for his guys, only to resurrect in upgraded form :D (Edit: Oh Mithras did get an honorable mention!) -ReligionForBreakfast goes into detail about the 4 gospels, and how tracking language lets us date them. He talks about the order they were probably written in, and who copied each other. It's a great channel, and not just focused on Christianity

well done

Another fantastic piece of work Sir! Thank you Those apostles were not the messia, they were very 'story' boys. m

Human beings are so intelligent, that they can believe something that is not 'true,' and is not observable in the physical reality.

I have never before heard of the similar passages in the New Testament about Jesus Christ found in the Old Testament presented as copies of the earlier writings. I have always heard of them as fulfillments of earlier written prophecies, so I understand that as the popular view. Yet I understand deception and fanaticism well enough to know this could have happened. Enough people believe a thing that they accept it as fact with the original deceiver(s) dying off burying the truth, and other scenarios. This simultaneously questions the authenticity of these writers and whether accurate prophecies are possible.

I believe that Jesus was a real historical person. Josephus mentions him in his histories. I have seen work linking Mary and Joseph to the Essenes. It is possible I think that he was raised to be a savior. The Essenes were big on looking for the coming of a savior to save them from Rome. Of course he didn't exactly turn out to be the warrior savior that they were looking for. Most of the Christians I know will argue that the mentions of the crucified savior in the OId Testament is just further proof of existence because they were accurate predictions. Jung would say that the crucified savior is an archetype existing in our collective unconscious. This is all that I am sure of except that sometimes the story is more important than the history. How would we have ever had The Geneva Convention if King Arthur had not lived? But he lived and died and whatever the true events of his life were, he inspired the stories of Chivalry, Honor, and Sacrifice. And so there now exists a treaty that outlines honorable warfare versus crimes against humanity.

Incredibly well done. Chronological timeliness are very helpful. I don't believe in resurrection, Jesus or anyone's.

Great video, once again. ❤ It’s not that difficult to understand why some people may choose to believe in resurrection and the afterlife : death is frightening. Knowing that you will end, having to live on knowing that you will never see your deceased loved ones again, is hard. I have seen videos that concluded that Jesus, as a historical figure, was most likely real, based on Romans around year 60 mentioning people who believed in [a guy that basically fits Jesus’s description], and I didn’t find the argument very convincing. I guess there have always been preachers and prophets, and my opinion is, it is highly possible one of them reinforced his image by declaring himself son of a virgin and so forth, drawing on previous texts and myths. It is equally possible that his followers portrayed him as such to convince more people to join them, and that he himself never claimed to be anything of the sort. Alternatively, he may be an entirely fictional character, since every bit of the Gospel, officially accepted by the Christians or not, was written decades to centuries after his supposed death, not by any of his twelve Apostles, but by people who never met him. I’ll definitely be searching your channel for a video about the evidence supporting the existence/non-existence of a historical (human, simply human) Jesus.

This video brings to mind Lewis' idea of the true myth. He was a great scholar of English literature and world religions, and converted to Christianity because of those myths. He went from agnostic to pagan to Christian. He described the appeal of all other myths as a draw to the True Myth of Christ. Simply, Christ was the Person through Whom the worlds of myth and man touched. If such a person, a link between heaven and earth, truly did live, die, and raise again, I hope it was Christ.

Do you know about the recent findings for the shroud of Turin?

Aren't the NT parts copied from the OT reference so as to point out fulfilled prophesy?

Hey mate- just mentioning I love your channel. Liked and subscribed. I'll give you the perspective of a Christian however... there are issues in the bible I consider to be really challenging to my faith- none of them are the issues you raised. At the end of this rant I'll give you the challenging verses as a kind of free hit, and an incentive for you to read through all of this 😆😆 In modern translations of the bible, passages that are excluded in extremely early prints are highlighted, so the passage about handling snakes was already well known to me as a verse in contention. Similarly, just because there are similar stories in the past does not really impact whether one account is true or not, and most scholars I've talked to freely discuss the influences of the writers and what myths they drew from to make the jesus account more compelling. This is storytelling as a vehicle, not necessarily a lie or plagiarism. The gospels are well known to be different versions of a now unknown original source, copied themes are once again well known and what is more, those differing gospels would have been extant at the same time and readers would have been well aware of each account, their differences and most likely the original source they were drawn from. I could discuss this more but I want this to be relatively short but I have to zone in on the term "convinced". I'm well aware of my biases, and am of the opinion that nobody is rationally convinced of anything. We may use logic as a construct, and our arguments may sound good but I'm pretty sure there is a five year old child in every one of us screaming "because I wanna!!" So I'm happy for you to to say that my opinion is not rational, but I'd also like you to consider the possibility that neither is yours and that's not a reflection on your intelligence, just human nature. Now the promised free hit... When jesus rose from the tomb, the bible mentions that the guards were paid to say they were overpowered. This could be considered a little too convenient... In the book of acts there is a couple, annanias and sopphira. They allegedly died for the sin of deception. Once again this could also be interpreted as a poor alibi for murder. There you are, I genuinely wish you the best my friend. Keep posting your stuff, it's amazingly interesting and well researched

This video has inspired me to write a fairy-tale, so I want to investigate more into the the time and reason when the story of Romulus was transfered to Jesus. If you want to help me, or suggest material I should investigate, please respond.

I would be heavily interested in an update of this video with sources and more in-depth analysis. As someone who has a keen interest in being well-read on the falsities present in Christian Mythology (ignore my name, as I am now an ex-Mormon thanks to, well, reading too much of the Bible and the context surrounding it). This video, unlike many of the videos I’ve watched from you including the recent video on flood myths as well as the book of genesis, feels like it meanders a bit and represents things that could readily disprove the resurrection myth but don’t do a great job of explaining how it does so (IE, a lot of the older resurrection myths are mentioned, but analysis of why these myths directly influenced or were copied by Christian writers seems sparse and often requires a great deal of abstraction). Another great example, if you asked a Christian why the Old Testament and New Testament stories are similar or even identical, they would likely tell you: “the Old Testament stories are prophecy’s that come to pass in the New Testament”. I would love to hear your analysis on exactly why these are just copied as opposed to prophetic (beyond the fact that prophecy doesn’t exist beyond coincidence of course). Sincerely, an ex-biblical scholar, ex-Mormon, ex-Christian who is interested in being able to teach my son, comprehensively, why all of his older family members and many of his friends who want to tell him Christianity is the only truth are trying to shove blatant falsehoods down his throat as if they were fact. I, of course, do have my own answers to this that come from my studies, but it wasn’t until I started watching your videos that I understood just how far back the falsehoods went or how they originated.

I don't believe either. But. What you say is that this story is old. That it has rolled trough time, we don't know from when. And if I believed, I'd say that is the proof. I don't. So to me it just makes it a story that has been important for humanity for longer than memory. And that is amazing!

It isn’t Indo-European, but would you do a video on the aboriginal myths about the Budj Bim / Tower Hill volcanic eruptions and what it means for different oral traditions and (pre?)historic events?

❤

I have to observe that mr Crecgfanford always works from one clear assumption: if there is an older story with the same theme or elements, then the newer story HAS to be a modified version of the older one. Each time when he uses the word 'evidence' he means 'here is another story with the same elements that is older'. That premise though I find very questionable. If I write a story where my character eats bread, then according to his premise that cannot be true because he knows of older stories where people eat bread. Yet I did eat bread yesterday and I just wrote about it. In this video here Crecganford's premise is that the Gospel of Mark is based on older stories. Yet Mark was the scribe that wrote this story from Peter's mouth, a man who would soon thereafter be tortured to death for his belief that he had personally witnessed those things himself.

From what I remember of my Theology degree, from extant Roman records there was an actual Jesus executed by the Romans (problematic to at least one gospel), aged about 35 (problematic, I believe, to the calendar), but that is pretty much ALL we know about him.

What are your sources for the Romulus story? I can't find that he ever ressurected as and then told his friends. He could have become a god after his death but thats not the same as resurecting as a man and then becoming s god

I know this is unrelated but I was wondering why the whole world uses the exonym Greek when the endonym is Helleni and Greece itself is called Ellatha by the Greeks. I have heard that the Normans or French called the Greek speaking people's as Gryphons in Sicily I'm not sure if there is any etymological relationship between Greek and Gryphon. Sorry if this is a silly question

I liked this video up to 665, who wants to be next?

Zalmoxis 💙💛❤🖖said to have known Pythagoras. The three days approximate the Moon's invisibility each month (30 hours)

A few notes from me as a theologian: As I would see it, citing the Old Testament in the New one is not trying to con (I couldn't come up with a better word.) people, but rather the idea is to very voluntarily create a connection here to present Jesus as the prophecied Messiah. Is this about taking the Bible literally? We see in a million other places that it's not intented to (although people still claim it is), like checking on what day exactly Jesus died or looking in what order the first man and the first cat were created, let alone more complex issues like the duration of the flood or the way the sea split or was blown aside in the Exodus. So here I couldn't agree more. Does that mean the Bible is not to be trusted? Well, not on the literal level. It never claims to be written in the way that modern people would call factual. The stories about people (including Jesus) tend to rather show what they were about than what they did at what precise time. Raising Lazarus is different than Jesus because Lazarus was clearly raised BY Jesus, he did not rise under his own power (or by direct divine intervention, depending on how you want to interpret it). In both stories Jesus (or God, see above) is framed as having power over life and death. Again, not necessarily a fact, but in that way it says much more because it is intended to. The Jesus movement was a fact, we know that much. Otherwise, who would have written the stories? And modern historical theology thinks that something happened to convince his followers of his resurrection. What exactly? No one knows. We don't know why Mark doesn't write anything about it. But I would think something made people add this (rather hard to believe) bit to the text. Now, according to the still most accepted model of the creation of the gospels, you made one small error and that is that Luke did not copy Matthew, Luke and Matthew had a common source of stories called Q. There are other models though, some even put Matthew first, but that's neither here nor there.

something that never set well with me in was the idea of no other gods before the. What gods? what makes someone think that the jewish/christian god is anymore real than Zeus, Odin or whoever?

the problem with listing Old Testment passages that were either copied or served as a basis for the Gospels is that Christians use those passages as prophecies of the comming of the Son of God. Mark 16:9 to the end is widely known to be an addendum to that Gospel in any church that knows their Bible & teaches it correctly. now, the comparison with the other savior-god myths was deeply interesting.

I would say ,that they not ignorant to accept that there was no resurrection but rather its common understandable psychology of human. Human needs miracle.

It makes all the sense in the world though that Justinian II would change the lamb to a man because of concern about depicting god as a man previously (and iconoclasm begins not long after this). But obviously there are depictions of christ far predating 7th century

Interesting, although I think care must be taken not to conclude that because a myth is similar to another they must be linked. Origin, culture and context is where consulting with knowledgeable scholars could help.

Can you do a video regarding roman culture and the council of nicaea? To me it always looked like a blasfemy to anything that is history religion and culture, but i also wonder what exactly has happened and how much of roman culture shaped the new christianity that was 'accepted' by the empire.

well i can assure you that Inanna does exist. I can assure you that deity named Prometheus does exist and is one of us right now. One of his incarnations was Oppenheimer for example.

Not forgetting the Greek mythological influences as several Greek gods mate with human females to produce demi gods.

Indra is known as one of the oldest gods in the Vedic pantheon. Are you saying Indra originated in Tibet before that? Do a video on Indra!

Hey, man. Quirinus was in a wheelchair. Proof of ancient superduperism right there. (Yes, I've had a few too many beverages.) Was Prometheius really killed each day? I thought he was a mortal who stole fire from the Gods, and was punished after death by having his liver torn out. Can't resurrect if you're already dead. Nice to start working my way thru your earlier stuff. It's good too.

11:16 no, some christians would say "that's prophecy. They're describing a coming messiah. It matches Jesus because he is that coming messiah"

Great piece of work Jon. I was aware that the "Christ" story mirrored several other religions but didn't know that there were quite so many! Unfortunately, the Bible cannot be relied upon as a historical document (I think you pointed that out) - far too many inconsistencies with contemporary records: Josephus, Tacitus, etc. It also has to be questioned whether the Biblical Christ actually existed in the manner put forward in that book. As you are probably aware the word "Christ" comes from the Greek Christos, meaning "saviour" (or words to that effect). It is debatable, I believe, whether the original form of Jesus was a name as, in it's Aramaic form (Iehschouah - various spellings) also means "saviour" or "deliverer" - so was it a name or title, maybe created at a later date? Nicea? Josephus only mentions the Biblical Christ twice - his arrest and execution, yet Josephus writes extensively about a man called Judas the Galilean to whom Josephus attributes virtually all of the key acts (the Temple cleansing etc.) the Bible aligns with Jesus, but 20 years earlier. This does not detract from some of the lessons set out in the Bible, these are inherently good, but are more in keeping with the character of James than Jesus. The main problem, I feel, is not with the Bible as such (once one has peeled away the various additions, revisions and propaganda) but with how it was used, particularly by the early Roman Church - the Copts and Orthodox Church seem significantly different in their approach. I don't see too much wrong with Christianity, once all the nonsense is stripped away, except by many of the people who propagate it. Having said that, at least the RC Church adapted pre-Christian practices in Europe for its own use rather than extinguishing them forever, as it did elsewhere, allowing some traditions to continue - albeit in a somewhat covert manner. Ref's below for some of the statements I have made as much of it could be considered speculative. Judas The Galilean by Daniel Unterbrink The Mythmaker (Paul and the Invention of Christianity) by Hyam Maccoby James the Brother of Jesus by Robert Eisenman The Fire That Consumes by Edward Fudge Looking forward to your next instalment!

No serious academic doubts that Jesus lived and was crucified. The questions are: did he also resurrect and, if so, does the fact that earlier religions had their own related myths undermine Christian claims, or is it an indication that human spirituality naturally yearns for the Christian event?

I would say this. Is there a man who Jesus is based on who was some sort of preacher? Maybe, It's surely not impossible. Is there a divine Jesus who is the son of god and/or also god? I would have to say most probably no.

It's not something I think I'd ever be able to convince most Christians of, I don't try because I know it would just harm them emotionally, but it is sad that the story of this mythical event is so engrained.

👏👏👏👍👍👍🤓

The Christ-like figure in Philo is not explicitly revealed by him as having the name Jesus in Philo’s writing. Philo describes this figure as decidedly not a man, but as an incorporeal being, the first born son of god, and present during and participating in the Creation, specifically of some types of species. Philo explains that his name is the East (“Behold a man whose name is the East”), or at least has it so in the translation I’ve made use of. This seems to be referencing Zechariah 6. Apparently he is using the Septuagint, as the Bible says “Behold a man whose name is the Branch”. The word Anatole, however, can mean east (as in Anatolia) or branch in Greek, though not in Hebrew to the best of my knowledge. Philo is a Hellenistic Jew often sought to merge Judaism with Greek philosophy, so it would not be surprising for him to be well disposed toward making use of the Septuagint. The Branch was a common way of referring to Jesus in the NT (If I recall right, he is referred to as the Branch 11 times in the NT, also providing the basis for the description of his early followers as Nazoreans ‘Branchites’). The figure given the title of the Branch referenced in Zechariah 6 is the high priest Joshua son of Jehozadak. Joshua is the Aramaic version of the Jehoshua meaning ‘savior of god’ in Hebrew. Joshua enters Greek as Jesu (when grammatically appropriate with the masculine nominative case marking -s, to yield Jesus). Notice also that Jehozadak contains Jeho (referencing the Jewish god) plus Zadak (z-d-k) referencing either an older Canaanite god by that name, who would have existed in Jesus’ supposed time as the Phoenician god Sydek, or as the Hebrew word for ‘righteous’. Interestingly the root z-d-k is similarly found in the name Melchizedek. And of course Jesus is described as being from priestly order of Melchizedek in the NT. Still even more interesting, Melchizedek appears in the Dead Sea Scrolls (11QMelch) as a divine apocalyptic figure who renders judgment on souls in the final days. Converging Red flags and a smoking gun, I say.

ffs.... that intro! the Bible thumpers Love you, Jon. what you say we crash a First Communion or 2? 😆 ✊💜👍 PS the bible is a quilt with plenty of "plagiarism" tho healing with hands and doing "miracles" is a thing. i had an old wise woman pull a nail hurried to the hilt in my foot....not a drop of blood, slipped right out like snot on a doorknob & a fresh pink plug of new flesh in the hole when i snuck off to look at it after she was finished. (no I'm not schizoaffective lol and I was sober as a judge [should be].)

I tend to think that their probably was a guy who preached essentially a reformed Judaism with some Apocalyptic elements about the fall of the Roman Empire and was killed for it. The rest looks like just a story constructed by his followers after he died.

This is so great. You're doing gods' work right here. He-he see what I did there? LOL, Good one, I know.

Your arguments regarding the Jesus story being a retelling of earlier Judaic stories will seem a bit week to those who believe that Jesus represents the fulfilment of prophecies represented by those earlier stories. I do not see the hand of God in any writings set down and maintained by humans.

If you had to pick one God from one religion which one would you suggest might actually be real or be a natural person that existed at some point

As a Christian, I’m not sure why any of this refutes the existence of Jesus. I’m part of a belief system which believes in miracles, including prophecy. Not only that, but I believe in a god that existed since the beginning of time itself, which means even before Judaism. I personally think it would actually be really weird if there was no common motif mentioning this critical part of my belief system throughout history and across nations. I’m also not sure why my fellow Christians would be so swayed by these secularly-sided arguments, seeming to come from a common presumption that there are no miracles in this world. Because I have faith, I see these facts of history with a little more complexity, I think. After all, I don’t think it would make sense for the New Testament to be devoid of reference to the Old Testament, so much of which would be known intimately Jesus and the people he taught. They would probably be eager to point out the paralleling stories and themes and motifs, and Jesus would be able to use many of these scriptures to affect his teaching. This kind of study of the scriptures has always been important to acknowledge in nearly every class I’ve taken studying the Bible. I still really like your channel, though! I love listening to all these stories and getting to understand the religions and myths of the world in better detail and clarity. I love to learn, especially about humanity. It’s clear you probably think I’m deranged for my beliefs, but I’ve met all sorts and seen all kinds of things. There are stranger things in Heaven and Earth, etc. I hope we could still get along