* best David Attenborough voice * "The ejection seat waits, sometimes years at a time, for it's unsuspecting prey. When the time comes, it snatches it's prey and fires it from the relative comfort of the cockpit out into the cold, and uncaring stratosphere. There, the pilot will fend for himself or be consumed by the ejection seat."

This is quite possibly the most cheerful and enthusiastic person I’ve ever heard to talk about the process of being shot out of an airplane.

I think my downward ejection seat in the B-52G was made by the Otis Elevator Company

I work with a former F-14 and F-4 pilot who told me a story about a guy whose call sign was Splash… apparently he was launched from a carrier with immediate engine failure and had to eject… he then got ran over by the ship without dying and was picked up and brought back to the ship… and that’s why they called him Splash

Currently an AME on Super Hornets. I had an senior WSO come in the shop one day and he explained his ejection story over NAS Fallon a few years back. Every year on his ejection anniversary he goes down the flight line to every AME and PR shop to give thanks. He kept his parachute and got it lined inside his leather jacket. Very cool sorry!

I was a Life Support Specialist in the Air Force and installed Parachutes and Survival kits in the ACES II ejection seat in the F16. These seats are pretty remarkable feats of engineering. Our career field motto was “Your Life is Our Business”

I was an AME in VF-31 in the 1970's flying F-4-J's. I was lucky enough to get a ride. The pilot told me I was not to touch the handle for command eject. For1.5 hrs. on August 20 1976 will always be the best thing I've done.

I was an AME in the Navy from 74-96. My first command was VF-24 at NAS Miramar. My Divo had to eject twice in 2 years. Both times I had signed off on his seat. After the second ejection he gave me his face curtain. An honor to have worked on pilots safety equipment. Love your channel.

Hello Ward. I recently watched your interviews with John Nichol and your dad. I have a personal connection with each of those episodes. I'm a retired electrical engineer with a 31-year career with DoD and the Navy. During my career, I spent a one-year tour at the Pentagon and ONI at Suitland. It was sad to see in your interview with your dad that Harry Spies had passed. When Harry was a Major, he and I were office partners at ONI. The last time I saw him was just before I retired from SPAWAR Systems Center (SSC) in San Diego. SSC is located on the top of Point Loma and the Flag Officers residences were next to the SSC parking lot. Harry had just made BGEN and was the CO of Miramar. I was leaving work one day and met up with him outside his house. The connection with John Nichol was the part about the ejection and rescue of the F-117 pilot in Bosnia. My son was the crew chief on the Pave Low that rescued him. It is indeed a small world. Dennis Deaton

Absolutely one of the best guests you’ve ever had on Mooch! He is just such a great storyteller, and with his experience can truly weave some great yarns.

I flew F-4s for 14 years in the ANG. Like Mooch's later F-14s, our aircraft had optional "MCO" which was selected by the WSO in the rear cockpit. It was a mandatory briefing item before each flight that the pilot told his WSO whether to preselect "command" or not when he did his cockpit preflight checks prior to engine start. My standard brief to my WSOs was, "Command eject, because If you think things are bad enough to eject, please take me with you." The NCO in charge, a master segeant, who ran the seat shop was a former Navy petty officer named Kenny Fisher, who had worked on Martin Baker seats his entire military career. Whenever I had a little spare time, I would stroll down to his shop on the main deck of the hangar for a friendly visit. Kenny and the full time professionals in his shop ran a tight, by the book operation. Occasionally i would drop off a case of beer for him and his troops. I didn't wait for a successful ejection to show my appreciation for their fine work in maintaining our seats!

I have to tell this story since you guys would love it. In the run-up to the Gulf War, the Tornadoes were working up in the MOD range in Northern Scotland. At that time, my wife was active duty US Navy at Thurso, Scotland. As a "despondent" husband, I had a job in the local economy. My daily commute was by motorcycle from Thurso to Wick using the “high road”. On my way to work, I rode down through my normal right-down-left-out dell up onto a straight. Just as I pop out of the dell, a Tornado blasts DIRECTLY overhead at alarmingly low altitude. I noticed. I thought that was pretty cool. The next day, the exact same thing happens at the exact same place. Next day, same thing. I thought that ~might~ be coincidence, but I didn’t think so. The next day I took the “low road” going along the sea coast. A bit of a longer ride but even more pleasant. As I’m riding along a fairly long straight, I get buzzed again. I was fine, but the sheep completely freaked out That’s when it dawned on me that I was being used as target practice. I've always wished I knew that pilot's name. Now you're talking to someone that might know.

Mooch and John, thanks especially for history of the developement of ejection seats. I was the Radar Navigator on a B-52G in 1984. We were descending down for a night low level mission over Monument Valley in Arizona. We didn't detect Hunt's Mesa until the last second and we started a climb over it, our right wing clipped it. Five of the six survived ejections. Unfortunately the Wing DCO wasn't in an eection seat. The Gunner was hit by debris and was killed. The Navigator and I were in downward ejection seats designed down to 250' feet above ground in level flight. It was estmated were somewhere around 100' or less when we ejected. We both had injuries but survived because everything in both our ejections worked perfectly.

The whole test pilot thing from that era is scary. The courage and skill required was even more than was required for combat. Imagine asking a pilot to fly today with an aircraft that is merely a collection of hopes and dreams.

Thanks for having Mr. Nichol back, such a great guy to listen to.

I was an Egress troop in the USAF for 23 years. I worked T-33 aircraft ( very rudimentary) up to the ACES II in the F-15, F-16 and A-10. I did 3 years in SAC on B-52s, which was also like going back in time technology wise. But the aircraft and ejection seat that taught me how to be a true mechanical technician was my 10 years on the F-4 phantom and the Martin Baker seat. This was a truly great and evolved design with constant improvements whenever a flaw was exposed, sadly from failed ejections. I will always have a soft spot in my heart for the Martin Baker company.

There was an Iranian RF4 pilot who had ejected twice from F4. Once at 50000 feet and a second time at 50 feet above the ground and survived. He passed away a few months ago. I wish he was around to see if we could get him to talk about it. As far as I know, he is the only F4 pilot who has been ejected twice. He lost his left eye in his second ejection.

Just a Army Infantry Medic here who loves aviation. Listening to John tell these stories is like being there. He is a very good, animated story teller that brings you into the story and makes you feel like your getting a first hand account or debrief of the situation. Kudos on this one Ward! P.S.. I was in Afghanistan with you in 09. 101st, 507th, HQ CO. Task Force Striker Op Rockashan. 🙏🇺🇸

Lieutenant Colonel William Henry Rankin "the man who rode the thunder" is the craziest ejection story. Ever. Easily.

My dad was an armourer maintaining seats at 1FTS East Sale and was given a MB pin from a grateful pilot - it is one of his most treasured possessions. Interestingly, he also talked about an in-hanger ejection that did not go well for the ground crew. Ejection seats are amazing things, but they are scarily dangerous as well.

Wonderful episode. Loved hearing the different ejection stories. Having had a zero-zero, uncommanded ejection from a Phantom it also brought back a flood of memories and total respect for the Martin-Baker committment to perfection.

A-10 memory. I was driving to a ranch near Gila Bend when I noticed a pair of A-10s using traffic on the road for virtual strafing practice. I felt honored when they "strafed" me too. This was in the early 80's.

Met and spoke with George F Smith 40+ years ago as a teenager…. Wish I could have that opportunity again…. First person to survive a supersonic ejection while testing the F-100 Super Sabre…. Listening to his list of injuries and subsequent rehab was unbelievable … what a true inspiration. RIP GFS

Brilliant story, met John Nicol and he really is a lovely guy, warm and genuine. His books are superb so, thanks to Mooch for this episode and for showcasing Eject! Eject!

"If you have to eject - you're having a very bad day. Don't make it worse by not remembering what YOU are supposed to after being ejected." I may not have gotten to the fleet - but that was ONE thing EVERYBODY paid attention to !

One of my Air Force co-workers was a test pilot at Edwards, and a test flight was going very badly. Right before he punched out, he announced over the radio he was “…giving it back to the taxpayers…”. Great guy….

John is a terrific storyteller! Awesome to see him back on the channel.

When I was preparing for my F16 ride with the Thunderbirds and reading up on the ejection seat the only part that seemed sketchy was the higher than 15,000 feet ejection sequence. Freefalling head first in the seat from whatever altitude you ejected at until you reached 15,000 feet where the parachute would deploy automatically seemed like it would be a highly stressful event. As the crewman who talked me through the ejection process the day of the flight put it, freefalling head first from 50,000 feet to 15,000 feet is a whole lot less stressful than riding a busted jet all the way to the ground. Hard to disagree with that. But it was a great flight, no ejection required and more fun than a person can imagine.

Ward, as always great content. This subject brings back great memories. I was a AME in VAQ-133 in the late 70's. We had a 3 crew save about 1978. As the story goes they were up to doing some unapproved ops and got caught at about 13,000 ft falling tail first and spin assist was saying screw you after multiple attempts. I believe they were set up in command sequence at that point and in that aircraft the sequence is set up so that the #4 guy (directly behind the pilot goes out first with zero delay) and so forth all with about .4 second separation between them. In this instance they were flying with only three crew. The guy in the back hurt his wrist going out and that was it for visible injury. They gave us one hell of a party once on the beach in Spain. Very happy crew to be alive. Keep up the good work, Cheers, Brian

What a great set of tales! Mr. Nichol is a born storyteller to go with his aviation training.

John Nichol is a fascinating guy to listen to and his first book Tornado Down about his experience getting shot down over Iraq and taken as a POW is an outstanding read. I highly recommend it. I’ll definitely be giving his new book a read.

The US Navy F4-J did have command eject. It was part of the takeoff Checklist in the early '70's. Being a very junior RIO (JG) at the time the pilot invariably said "Command Select off!" Although if it was a heavy weather launch off the boat they might say "ON!!!"

As a flight surgeon many years ago, I was assigned to an aircraft mishap investigation team that looked into a tragedy where two F-16s collided in mid-air. One pilot was killed because his ejection system was damaged by the collision. Despite being unharmed by the collision the pilot was killed in the subsequent crash on the ground. The canopy was sheered off by the collision and the seat ejection system did not work. The other pilot ejected safely. I cannot give enough thanks for the pilots, aircrew members, and maintainers for their efforts through the years to keep our country safe. Wonderful and fascinating video! Bill

Thanks Mooch. Good topic from my past. Douglas Escapac 1C-2 seats and old NB-10 parachute in the A7-E. Later NES-12C parachute with ballistic spreader gun upgrade. Witnessed three ejections during my time, two were aboard Lexington CV-16 and one aboard Midway CVA-41. All pilots survived. Keep up your good work sir. USN PR2 1971-75

Love this video. Marine F4 AME (Seat Sniffer). Mark 5 was a great seat but with a major flaw after the rocket upgrade. The rocket was fired after ejection sequence was initiated by a lanyard attached to the rocket motor and the cockpit floor. During ejection the seat would rise 4 inches or so and ignite the rocket. Zero-Zero.... Problem being... If aviators were flying off for an extended stay they would often carry duffle bags and store them under their seats. If they pushed hard enough they could ignite the rocket. Up goes the seat, up the rails. But this is not a normal ejection sequence. The main charge has not been fired and the canopy has not been ejected. Hopefully no one is strapping them in. Not a good situation. MK 7's changed this with a switch for the rocket on the rail. Was the altitude device on the seat forgotten about? Over 10,000 ft the pilot would be held in the seat with his stabilization (drone) chute deployed. This gives him enough O2 to survive the desent. God Bless America...

As a former Ripper AME, I always enjoy your ejection videos, especially the Tomcats. Another great one!

Excellent episode! That book sounds like a must read for anyone interested in aviation. The stories he told alone had me on edge of my seat!

I love the Air warfare commander story. It’s one of my favourite videos. Black Lions skipper giving out hugs when his pilot made it back.❤

Bringing back memories! My dad was an Infantry officer in the British Army in WW2, and after the war he ran a metal factory in Birmingham, UK. They produced specialised alloys and were, I think, the only company in the UK that could produce some of the specialised alloys used by Martin-Baker. They had a (disarmed) MB ejector seat on display at the factory office, which was an object of intense interest to 8-year old me. Some years later, I read the story of a British parachutist who I think was a member of the Red Devils and who subsequently went on to test ejector seats. The story that stayed with me was when he was testing one of the first rocket-propelled seats, and describes being sat on the seat which was on a concrete pad (no aircraft) and pulling the face mask down to initiate the seat, expecting to go to about 300 feet into the air - and nothing happened. He wasn't certain whether there had been a misfire or whether the rocket was smouldering away under him, so he couldn't risk getting out of the seat in case it ignited but he didn't want to stay in the seat in case it exploded. Finally, a (very brave) member of the team came and got him out of the seat, and the fault was later identified as the firing cap (I think) not being completely screwed down. I wish I could find the book again, it was a fascinating read. Great videos Mooch, the calibre of your guests is unparalled.

He's so cool, a special kind of guy. So sincere. He enjoys expressing his thoughts, and people listen. Awesome interview Mooch!

Interesting timing on ejection, considering the airshow today in Michigan.

Was an AME at the Rag (VF-101). Had 2 crews use the seats in the 80's in Key West. They all got out with minor injuries. Thankful that everything worked as advertised! As an AME, it was always a stressful job knowing you were the last line of defense if the seats needed to be used. No matter what, no maintenance was ever rushed & everything was double if not triple checked.😊

I vividly remember seeing him and his pilot on tv during the gulf war. Splendid guy.

I was a USAF Aircrew Egress Technician (1971-75) working primarily on the F-4 (C,D, and E). This was a great interview and I appreciate the effort John put into this book. As to the Command Select system, all of our F-4's had the CS. It was my understanding (I was a maintainer, not a flyer) that the default setting was a two person eject but during pre-flight, that could be changed. Again, great interview.

I've always been amazed at the "rube goldberg" sequencing of the various charges that make a seat work. As a Marine pilot and aircraft maintenance officer who went to Air Force flight school (and also flew helicopters in the Army Guard) it's amazing various ways the seats work. The difference in aircraft that required the canopy to go for the seat to work versus the seats that gave the canopy time to go and then fired regardless, to those that went thru the canopy without a canopy release. great interview.

I very clearly remember the night John was shot down. I was 19, obsessed with all things aviation, and up all night that January 16th chewing my nails about all the guys about to go kinetic. I remember Vietnam in the TV news as a child in the '70's, and when I had heard we had lost a Tornado overnight, and one of the crew was a POW...I remember praying to God that we would not have to go through that kind of ordeal with our airmen again, and then said another prayer for this unknown-to-me pilot that had just been captured. I've never forgotten that moment. Now you've brought me the man, the story, and the books I can now go read! Thanks, Ward! Thank you, John...

Just recently found your channel. As a former AG1, 81 to 95, we may have crossed paths at some point

Just looked up the story of the f-4 shooting down the jag. Glad to see the F-4 pilots continued to fly fighters after being found guilty. Awesome interview mooch. Keep it up. Love the stories.

John Nichol's book Tornado (In the eye of the Storm) is one of the best reads I've ever had. I'll also be buying Eject Eject. Thanks to Mooch for this episode. It was great.

John, you can certainly tell a story , really enjoyed listening to you

Ward, John is a fantastic personality and I encourage you to have him on the channel again. Great video sir, thank you.

RIP: USAF Lt. David Schmitz, November 2020, returning from a night training exercise had to eject and the seat failed due to deferred maintenance and he was killed on ground impact. These seats do not always work as planned. His story on how he became a USAF pilot is an amazing story. RIP.

As a young woman, an 18 year old student, I graduated early from high school and worked as a math aid at Michaelson Laboratories at China Lake, California. I read film of the ejection seats tests conducted on the rocket sled at China Lake. The information was punched into IBM cards and interpreted by the huge room size computer. The printouts gave the pitch, yaw and roll of the seat test. I became very good with a slide rule! I was fascinated to hear how far the development of ejection seats has come since then. I had no idea how many pilots needed to ejected from their aircraft. Thank you for this program.

As an A-7 maintainer I witnessed one of our aviators eject on the bow of the bow of the Forestall. The aviator who ejected I believe has now retired as a Two Star Admiral call sign Torch tall and red hair.

Eject, Eject episode - fantastic, not because I'm a Brit, I really enjoy and appreciate the depth of feeling and explanation John gives, and how you 'keep the pot boiling'with timely and relevant banter. Great stuff!

A friend of mine had an engine failure a fairly high altitude in an A4 Skyhawk [1972] .He punched out ,he had strap marks and windburn and was sore for a few days.

Mooch, you are the Man! That was an award-winning documentary. The storytelling was amazingly entertaining. The production value was great. Please keep these coming.

Wow! Amazing stories... I was on the edge of my “seat” the whole way through. One of the best episodes in a while; thank you so much Mooch - love all your content.

First few years in the Corps, I was with Crash Crew, in 1973 at Iwakuni, an VMFA-121 Phantom lost steering control on landing and departed the R/W mid-field to the right. The RIO ejected but at that moment, the ACFT rolled inverted to the right and landed belly up, right wing down, left wing up. There was no post crash fire. The Rio was still strapped to the seat, several yards aft of the rear cockpit. The pilot stayed with the ACFT, uninjured, he was able to egress through his busted canopy. I was hosing down the ACFT as a fire preventive measure, a fellow member pulled the RIO away from the bird. The RIO lived! The next day the pilot came by our building to thank us, and to say that his RIO will be looking at a 6 plus month stay in the hospital but will he be okay. Appears that the catapult cartridges got the RIO out, but the rocket motor failed to ignite. Had, it it would either buried the seat and RIO into the ground or go skipping across the field. That was one lucky RIO.

Ok new book buy. I now have a new appreciation of how big the early testers courage was. I'd love to see you do an episode of Col. John Paul Stapp. The things he did to protect others is mind boggling.

Fascinating chat, and what a storyteller John is!

Thanks for all you do, Ward!

Sounds like a really interesting history and read! Frankly, I find the grim faced tenacity of facing "defeat" a more compelling story than a guns-blazing victory - all the training, technology, teamwork and strokes of luck, both good and bad, initially faced alone after a split second decision! Very real indeed...

“Meet your maker in a Martin Baker “😊

Another great interview Mooch. You set the table and let John Nichol tell the story. Well done!

22:00 Something similar happened on a Rafale a few years ago, a "leasure" flight with a civilian on board, who panicked and pulled the handle, ejecting only him. The pilot remained aboard, even though the ejection sequence was set for both seats to ejection. This malfunction saved the plane.

I love the part where the AME’s presented him with a Ejection handle that’s a real trophy. I know in the Navy the pilot usually presented the parachute rigger Who packed his chute with a fifth of whiskey, I know I collected two in Vietnam with VF-162. The first one was commander Dick Bellinger our CO who got chewed up by a mig17, three months later he was the first navy pilot to shoot down a MIG 21. The second one was Lieutenant Commander Butch Verch, he was chewed up by AAA. this was in 1966 flying off the Oriskany ,before the fire

I literally finished reading Eject Eject today, excellent read, amazing how far the tech has come. As an ex RAF firefighter I spent many hours doing training on ejection seat safety etc, amazing piece of kit, would not want to ride one though!

During Desert Storm, I played computer chess with a crew chief on the Theodore Roosevelt. He was "very popular" with the pilots because his responsibilities included maintaining the air conditioning and the ejection system.

Retired AW 1 and S-3 Viking SENSO. Sole survivor ejecting from a Viking during the clearing turn off cat 1 from JFK Oct 7 1989. Currently a 777 pilot with American Airlines.

Very interesting episode. I was thinking about this conversation and the sequence of events during an ejection while watching the MIG 23 ejection video that happened this weekend in Michigan. I understand the pilot (ex Navy A6 driver) is fine.

My basic flight training was on a PC7 MkII. I was very confident in the Martin-Baker seat and would not have hesitated to use it if I had to. Amazing invention. And for sure a shout out to the armourers who keep these seats maintained.

I just bought the audiobook. Can't wait for this listen! Thank you both, Mooch and John! BTW, John, your enthusiasm and expressiveness is delightful, and I'm so glad you made it out of Iraq. Blessings to you, and your friends and family.

When I was growing up my dad took me to an airshow at NAS Willow Grove near Philadelphia in 1980. A day or two before we went, a kid was climbing around in the cockpit of an S-3 Viking (I think), ejected himself, and was killed. I remembered that later on working around those things, it made an impression on me, because I was about the same age I think. Ejection seats are scary dangerous. Kind of like how airbags in cars can seriously hurt you if you forget about them while tinkering, except an ejection seat is way more dangerous.

The best attempted non-ejection/survival story that I heard in person was from a (then) Delta captain and former Marine F-8 pilot named Cliff Judkins. His complete story can be found online at the F-8 Association Page as well as the Flight Journal page. Cliff survived a manual bailout/with malfunctioning chute from an F-8 as well as multiple serious injuries which resulted in a six month hospital stay. He returned to flight status and later was a training captain with Delta...

This video should have 1 million views at least! Man what a treat this was listening to you guys chop it up. God bless you both, thank you for your service gentlemen, looking forward to seeing you hit 1M subs Ward! It’ll be a well deserved day mate. God speed!

Freaking love that guy mooch, like he’s so fired up about each story like it just happened earlier tonight lol

Excellent episode. In a similar vein you should talk to Elsa Hennings, who was the lead parachute engineer at China Lake, who also did a lot of work with NASA.

I was an AMH not AME but we were all fearfully educated on ejecting in the hangar. Tales of enlisted men smashed into the ceiling always made me ensure the safety pins were in place. VA-125 NAS Lemoore.

Amazing to think the latest seats have more computing power than some of the first jets

Ward, your work is nothing short of outstanding! Thank you!

I doubt anyone who watched this would pass up an opportunity to grab a pint with John Nichol. What a fun interview!

I could listen to him for hours, great interview.

Never in my life expected to hear Wildenrath or Brüggen mentioned on KZfaq, and with such a crazy story to boot. I've been to both bases as a civilian many years after the last aircraft left, my company maintained the street lights, and my dad was stationed at Wildenrath for a few years after I'd been born - he was an aircraft maintainer for the RAF. Pretty sure he wasn't there yet during this crazy mishap, but I will ask him if he remembers it anyway.

Love this episode! Ordered John's book & can't wait to read it. Have some really interesting documentation from my grandfather's time in the Navy, including ejection seat operation instructions for the FJ2 Fury. The last note reads: "If use of canopy release handle fails to jettison canopy, pull handle at left of headrest, and then pull the face curtain to eject through canopy". EJECT THROUGH CANOPY!?!? I guess when it is do or die you just do, but hard to imagine what that would be like!

John, Ward, it's your bloody fault that a garden, not far from forward fighter airfield RAF Hawkinge, remains unmown! Bloody brilliant! Thanks chaps 😎

Thanks for bringing us another great conversation! In turn, I hope the KZfaq algorithm devours these words and brings this awesome channel to new viewers.

"eject in anger" - what an evocative turn of phrase!

Many thanks for another great interview Ward and may I say - what a wonderful example of great Brit humour and understatement is our Mr Nichol. I well remember his burn peppered face gracing my t.v. screen while he was enjoying some enforced entertainment on the ground. As mentioned, my old mate Syd, a long time employee of M.B. was fundamental in the engineering of the whizzy bits of E seats. John's appearance has brought to mind an uncommanded rear seat departure which was also a Tornado if memory serves - a drop out occurred following a roll to inverted. Sadly, no chute deployed. Syd had it pegged to a failure to latch followed by an even worse failure of not checking - if a fist can't fit top of seat rail to cockpit - it ain't down far enough. It took months or even years to fully enquire into this incident with some of those involved choosing to retire without cooperating - to arrive at the same conclusion as my old friend as he perused his veggy patch.

I managed to purchase 2 complete old mk4 seats and have to say the technology for a clockwork system is just extraordinary. I always think of the irony of ejection seats being fitted to machines of war that are designed to take lives with probably more lives saved by these engineering marvels than lives lost in mordern air combat? They are Truly marvels of modern engineering and life saving technology.

Just ordered Eject, Eject. How could I not after John's storytelling? Great interview Mooch! Thanks to you both 😀

I was an AME at Fallon Nev. where there was a mid-air of two A4s from my squadron,VA 125. Both pilots successfully ejected. As turns out the next morning there were two bottles on my cruise box, they were both my seats, I had inspected both of them. It was pretty much my only point of distinction my enlistment. The seats in the A4 were the essence of simplicity, like the aircraft itself.

I knew a pilot that survived an ejection. He told me that the training didn't really prepare you for the real thing. He shared a little of what it felt like when the ejection sequence started. From 0 to 9+ G's in whatever the milliseconds it was. As I recall, he had to have physicals/checkups every six months afterwards.

Thank you Ward and John for sharing :)) amazing stories of the history of the Ejection Seat and the survival stories

Back in the late 70s the owner of the local RC hobby shop had been an F102 pilot. He had to eject late one winters night over North Carolina. This was one of the explosive powered seats. Tommy described it as being blasted out of the plane by a 20mm cannon shell. The G injured his back but he was able to rehab and stay on flight status. This was in 1959 iirc. 20 years later his back was giving him a lot of problems.

I started flying the F-4 in 1972 and by then every F-4 I flew during my career had the "Command Selector Valve" installed. I always flew with it rotated so if I went the pilot followed me. I did use it as blackmail twice in two days on my Squadron Commander who was totally incompetent at flying. We were in the PI for Cope Thunder and there was an incident on the range just as we were coming in for an attack. Our wing tanks had just gone empty and we had a fully loaded gun pod on the center line and 6 Mk 82s, three on each inboard. We were directed to hold at our present position and lead went into a left hand orbit at 3,000 MSL at 350 Kts. My pilot elected to fly on his left and we were just above the tree tops on the hills below. The jet became mushy and I looked at the airspeed which was dropping to within 5 Kts of stall at our weight and bank. I told the pilot to move to the outside of the turn and he refused. I told him if he refused to do the safe thing I was prepared to eject at the first sign of a stall and that the valve was rotated. He told me I could not eject him because it would ruin his artificial knees. I insisted on formation changer and refused to close the valve. He was swearing at me and promising to courts martial me but he did as I said. He got himself grounded permanently instead for this and the stunt he pulled the ne xt day with me in the pit (As an IWSO I was the only WSO who would fly with him and The Ops Officer wanted me to fly with him to keep him out of trouble.) The next day was another great adventure but it is too long to tell in comment.

John Nichol, RAF legend. Thank you Mooch!

What a great interview! I’ve read the book now and it was not a quick read… because there are sooo many great accounts included. I’m impressed that Ward read the book and had details at the ready for this episode. Really top class, excellent interview!!! Thank you

What an awesome interview BZ!!!!

The F4 shoot down reminded me of a photo my older brother brought home of where a Spit had crashed straight down into the soil. The prop dug a stair stepped hole in the ground. There were no parts of the Spit in the hole. According to my brother the Spit and another plane were playing dogfighting and the other plane pulled the gun trigger instead of the gun camera.