What is your height?

I feel that fatphobia is a tangent of ableism. The "They're unhealthy so they don't matter mindset".

One of the issues with framing fatphobia as "obesity isn't healthy but that doesn't mean you can treat someone with disrespect " is that is leaves SO much room for doctors to fail their patients. Like I've never faced fatphobia from friends, family, or coworkers, but I've been told by doctors that losing weight would fix some of my health issues because my weight percentile was slightly higher than my height percentile. This while I was training for black belt and about to start my period. But the doctor was so nice about how she said it, and she just wanted me to be healthier uwu

This episode made me think of Evan's recent video on British vs America school lunches with Noah. And at one point in the video, Noah made a comment to Evan that it's like American kids don't even have a chance to have a healthy relationship with food based on the food they're served at school for lunch and, oof, they just hit home for me. Between the food we're served versus the beauty standards we're told to achieve, it is so hard to learn correctly about weight and eating habits and body/self image.

In regards to the related extreme health issues and deaths I do wonder how much of those numbers are heightened more in relation to social effects and medical fatphobia and ableism than actually being directly related to the weight. Every fat person I know, myself included, has had massive chronic health issues overlooked by doctors refusing to do exams or run tests because the symptoms are being related to weight versus weight itself being a symptom of something else, or just not being related to that particular health issue. Knowing this and experiencing this also makes it way less likely for folks to go to a doctor for pretty much anything, so chronic conditions will go longer without attention or won’t get attention at all and progressively worsen. From a perspective of dismantling fatphobia and the social stigma of fatness being related to morality and a persons worth it’s great to get into the factual science of fat production on a basic level being more energy consumed than expended and that that is a morally neutral thing. I think it’s also important though for the sake of folks being able to advocate for themselves in a medical setting and for everyone to reframe their own fatphobia and ableism to nuance that statement with the acknowledgment of many conditions that can dramatically effect how the body stores and expends energy. I know that’s not the focus of this episode but I think is still worth discussing especially in a conversation about fat and effects on health.

The idea that health=worthy of respect is also a cause of ableism. And I like the comparison of health to intersectionality.

to answer, I am 5'11 or approx. 180cm. I found this interesting, epically when speaking about weight loss could be a sign of an underlying illness. My PCP knew that I had no intention of losing weight, I am obese, but I am emotionally happy about where I am at and my current co-occurring issues are managing very well, and when I lost 25 pounds between the two months that I saw her, she was concerned about how it happened (knowing that I wasn't trying to), and was asking me about other possible issues. It just happened to be I was in a less stressful environment, and I wasn't going anywhere so I was eating at home more. But I really appreciated that it wasn't just celebrated that I was losing weight because of my starting size.

Wow Corry skipping length day there! I always aim for +0.5 centimeters to my height at the gym!🏋️‍♀️🤣

As a statistician and a confirmed wokie it is so funny hearing Cory try to explain omitted variable bias and confounders using intersectionality as an analogy

I feel like this episode really picked up about halfway through with picking apart the social and scientific concerns with this discussion about obesity and the paradox (because there are many of them). I think I am a bit tense about when obesity is addressed without talking about the history of fatphobia first, because the "common sense" ideas are not great and connect back to (ironically) unhealthy ideals. (I would guess the beginning of this podcast was very cautious for this reason, which I understand). The use of BMI in the studies mentioned here is also frustrating. Hope science can move past this soon, facing the history and redefine new ways to study health that are distinct from these assumptions.

13:32, "it is physically impossible to create fat if you do not have excess energy" is *technically* true, but not practically. Our foods contain many different nutrients that *can* be processed as energy but typically aren't because it is inefficient to do so. But when we don't get enough efficient energy (like carbohydrates), our bodies can start breaking down those other nutrients (like protein) for energy and even turning them into fat. It can look like you are at a caloric deficit and still producing fat. Someone who doesn't get enough sleep and who has elevated cortisol is more likely to experience this because their body is more likely to interpret those signals in conjunction with lower caloric intake as famine or flight, and respond by converting more energy (including from inefficient sources) to fat in order to store that energy for later.

Interesting subject! I appreciate how you wanted to be accurate but also careful with your words. Just one thing I wanted to add: while depression, low confidence and feeling isolated is, of course, partly an effect of societal pressure and a result of how society views/treats obese individuals, excess fat DOES have a direct effect on brain chemistry and functioning that increases the likelihood of developing depression and anxiety disorders. So it is accurate to place depression and related mental states as symptoms of/problems related to obesity, just as shortness of breath and joint pain is.

This channel deserves so much more love.

i love y’all’s podcast but i have to agree with the other people in this comments that a lot of discussion on the way healthcare providers treat overweight people could actually be the cause of higher mortality rates, as well as the fact that some of the “symptoms” of obesity could just as easily be issues which are causing weight gain. many doctors will deny medical care and gaslight overweight patients about their health problems and that’s something i don’t think you can understand unless you’re willing to put aside certain biases and listen to what people who have experienced these things are saying. My sister (16) has chronic hormonal problems and just recently told my parents that she hasn’t gotten her period in 2 years and been avoiding the doctor because of her weight and prior experience. my mother had a genetic thyroid issue ignored because her symptoms were blamed on her weight for upwards of 10 years. (the weight gain was actually, conversely, CAUSED by the thyroid issue) the longer people avoid treatment or are refused treatment, the less healthy they get. even just being slightly overweight in my case, as i work out ~1 hr every day and am on testosterone, i still have issues receiving help for even mild issues from doctors. you also fail to mention genetic causes for weight gain, completely unrelated to caloric intake and nutritional value of food. I grew up in a “crunchy” household where we were eating pretty much exclusively health foods (not low cal, but lots of veggies, chicken, organic and local) but genetic low metabolism and unaddressed hormonal health issues still had us all with more body fat than our peers. obviously, both these things are anecdote, but they’re VERY common, and all it would take to know those things would be to listen to more fat people talk about their experiences with medical professionals prior to recording. No hate to you guys obviously and I still love the show, I just wanted to share my thoughts

Great ep! As a supplement, I really liked the BMI Episode from the podcast Maintenance Phase so can totally recommend that for further info

First time listener here. This video was recommended to me and I wasn't sure where it was going but the neutral comments from listeners gave me hope that this would be a good video. I was not disappointed! Although it took 45 minutes to get to the topic of the video, I appreciated how much research was done. I would have liked more history on BMI (that would also show why it's such an inadequate marker of health), more discussion of correlation of fat vs. causation (it would be nice if more studies on lifestyle choices were in play vs. weight/size), and the mental health component of weight/weight loss. Weight is not just calories in/calories out, and people with a history of disordered eating and/or compulsive tracking can be mentally (and sometimes physically) healthier not focusing on weight. And then there is the effect of fatphobia microaggressions (especially experienced in Healthcare), etc. etc. But then this would have been an even unwieldier podcast (maybe MORE than 45 minutes getting to the main point), so I have even more admiration for the Sci Guys keeping this on track. I love the takeaways, that the science behind the paradox is suspicious, that more research is needed, and that all people are valuable beyond their body size, shape, gender, etc. Thanks for that.

Awww man seeing the advert for after dark makes me sad that i cancelled my patreon, i cant currently afford it but i will be getting it back when i can because after dark are my literal favourite episodes!

Still in the middle of listening to this, so sorry if you bring it up later: some of the things in that "obesity symptoms" list are a bit silly, apart from the social stuff. Things like sleep apnea and depression can *cause* you to become obese because they affect your daily life so much.

This is a really good topic to cover right now thank you so much I needed this today

I really enjoyed this episode! I appreciate the nuance, as always.

Please check out 'the maintenence phase podcast' which has a obesity epidemic episode and is just worth looking at if you're into science journalism

I listen to sci guys when I fall asleep so you can have more views . I mean I also listen to sci guys when I’m awake but I can fall asleep to the same video multiple times

Mushrooms! Yes! I was looking for a way to lose weight but not restrict myself to bland, tasteless foods😁

Healthy at any weight can seem a bit silly, until you look at an "average" fat person. I fall into that category at 44% body fat. In preparation for an event I upped my activity level to include significant hiking, some running, and resistance training. I was averaging about 25-30km per week plus weights. 6 weeks. Didn't lose a pound or noticeable body changes. Got to the event that included a 2 km run as fast as you can. At 47yo and 60lbs overweight I was *passing* people 10-20 years younger who were thin and *looked* fitter than me. Reasonable health and fitness can hide under a certain level of fat. Does my weight bring risks to my health? No question. Given my decades long inability to lose the weight, should I start focusing on areas I *can* positively impact? Absolutely. I may never be thin but apparently I can be fit even if I don't look it.

This is similar to why drinking small amount of alcohol is "healthy". Especially earlier, when drinking was more peer pressured, people who did not drink at all were 1) having some health problems, which were made worse with alcohol or 2) sober alcoholics...who had already gotten negative health effects from alcohol. This would lead to people drinking a small amount of alcohol being the healthiest group.

I know a guy with a high BMI, he's pretty healthy. The problem is, he breaks every chair he sits in because he weighs 150 kg. /srs

Could it also have something to do with metabolism? Usually being over-weight means you will have a slower metabolism, which could also slow the growth of certain tumors/cancer cells etc. I know nothing about this, just wondering!

what does Luke say around 17:52 that makes Jamp laugh? couldn't hear it properly lol

45:45, when "the Obesity Paradox" is addressed

5’3”

Im using this for my EPQ. Is that ok?

For anyone wondering why fatphobia is a thing, the book by Sabrina stings titled "Fearing the black body: the racial origins of fatphobia" (googled, the actual title*) is a very good, objective overview of how fatphobia started in the west. Tldr of the book though people discovered severe obesity = not the best and thus decided to blame every single minority in existence for being obese and said only those minorities are obese and that's why "it's ok to persecute them" giving another reason for discrimination..... yay 😭/s Aka fatphobia wouldn't have been as extreme and polarising as it is today, if people didn't use it as a tool to be racist

I'm 5'8 1/2

My height is 5”9 but I feel short. Strange

5'10"

6'4"/194cm :P

5'2" I'm smol

5ft1 😢

172cm

in Finland, BMI is used as the sole reason to gatekeep top surgery for trans people. The hard BMI limit is 30. Yeah, 30.

Sassy scientists

See this video is a bit frustrating because what's not considered that I think actually matters a lot is that fat people are oppressed and oppression has huge implications for your health. I'm not saying we should then conclude that all fat is perfectly healthy, but most of what people say it impacts is correlatory, not causative and can also be caused by oppression in all aspects of life and that just isn't scrutinized as heavily. Moreso, this is a big deal because doctors use this frequently to either deny fat patients medical care in a number of ways or push them into often very dangerous treatments for fatness that can also cause a number of health issues associated with fatness. I agree that we shouldn't hang all of fat people's rights on the idea that they're all healthy, but I think there's a lot of context around that that y'all completely missed that needs more consideration, especially when people quite literally die due to these issues. Anyways, I'm skinny and still learning so I can't put all that context here, but I would highly recommend the podcasts Unsolicited: Fatties Talk Back and Maintenance Phase if other people would like to start learning about these issues.