The Secret Story Of The Moto Guzzi Engine For The Fiat 500

Рет қаралды 18,501

2 жыл бұрын

#motoguzzi #fiat500 #history
Our story begins sometime in the late 1950s. Italy was going through a period of explosive economic growth, during which more and more people each year could afford to buy Fiat's new small cars, the 600 and the 500.
But, although the country as a whole was doing very well for itself, the same couldn't be said about the Italian motorcycle industry, which had to all but reinvent itself. Until then, the bulk of Moto Guzzi and the rest of the Italian motorbike industry's business had been selling small-displacement 'bikes to those who could not afford an automobile: a market that, with the average Italian's rapidly increasing living standards, was quickly drying up.
Moto Guzzi's technical department, headed by the engineer Giulio Cesare Carcano, got busy exploring new products and ventures for the company's future, one of which was a 90° v-twin designed in 1958 and meant to be tested on a Fiat 500 owned by engineer Carcano himself.
The idea was to somehow lure Fiat into offering a special, sporty version of the 500 equipped with engines supplied by Moto Guzzi.
Fiat tested the prototype for three months, after which it was returned to Moto Guzzi with a positive note about the car's performance, but nothing else. With Karl Abarth already covering the market for go-faster Fiat derivatives with great success, it's fair to assume that Fiat's management had zero interest in dealing with Moto Guzzi, whose engine project was then consigned to the dustbin of history.
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Пікірлер: 79

@hugobloemers4425 2 жыл бұрын

A lovely "what if" story. Sadly we will never know. If it would have happened, those cars would have been very sought after today.

@Imnotplayinganymore 2 жыл бұрын

My thought exactly. Probably six figures

@whalesong999 2 жыл бұрын

I was working as mechanic for a motorcycle shop in Yonkers, N.Y. in '67 and went to the Berliner service school for the new line of Moto Guzzi V7 bikes. The engine had grown to 700cc and the bike was a large touring machine. During the school it was told that the engine had originally been designed for a small car but no brand name was mentioned though there was some comment about the small car being developed for use by the military for desert use. We sold a few V7s, I thought it pretty decent for its purpose. Always thought the bulky starter on the side didn't make for very good esthetics on a motorcycle.

@raufsahin334 2 жыл бұрын

Thats Why i Love Italian Cars ..😘😘😎😎😎

@Texmotodad 2 жыл бұрын

WOW! I thought I had a pretty good knowledge of history for Guzzi. This blew me away! Thanks for showing us this.

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

My pleasure! Thank you for your appreciation!

@through_changes 2 жыл бұрын

Wow! That would be an Italian Honda, before Honda! Cool story once again!

@nicolaandria522 2 жыл бұрын

A pity it was never made... just think about listening to the beautiful drumming noise of the Guzzi V engine coming from a little 500.

@darrenwilson8042 2 жыл бұрын

If only - that would be a version that would be racing around the track at places like Goodwood delighting the crowds. It would probably be one of those specials that ends up with more survivors than were ever built as people restored old shells to make Moto Guzzi copies

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

People have been stuffing Guzzi motorbike engines in 500s shells, by the way. While researching for this video, I’ve bumped into several recent builds with this theme :)

@darrenwilson8042 2 жыл бұрын

@@Matteo_Licata can't say I am that surprised lol

@simtalkayak 4 ай бұрын

I struggle to find decent videos and information about them damn it. @@Matteo_Licata

@mikeyerke3920 2 жыл бұрын

Great episode! I learned something.

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!!!

@anderslarsson6149 2 жыл бұрын

First we put money into development then we ask if there is a demand for it… No CFO /project controller asking questions. - It must have been a wonderful world ❤️

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

The wonderful world of small Italian motoring companies: lots of passion, very little business acumen :)

@anderslarsson6149 2 жыл бұрын

@@Matteo_Licata 💚🤍❤️

@stephenswift9868 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent! I knew nothing about this. Imagine if Arbarth got a hold of this engine!

@lynnhooley7608 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you Matteo for another great video

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

You’re welcome, thank you for watching!

@NickMakesBreaksStuff 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome video as always, I had never heard about this. Easy to see why Fiat wasn't particularly interested. They already had various Abarth modified 500s, the larger and faster 600, and by the time Fiat actually tested the Guzzi car, the 850 was only a couple short years away from entering production. Economy cars were progressing quickly and there was simply no place for the Moto-Guzzi 500 to fit in the lineup.

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

Indeed. It was a nice idea, but it solved no real problem for either Fiat or its customers

@TheDumpbin 2 жыл бұрын

@@Matteo_Licata It would have been great for export markets....which Fiat really didn't need at the time. The 500 was inadequate performance for American roads, but this would have changed that. Consider a 1962 Beetle, which made about 40hp, this Guzzi powered Fiat would have been comparable, cheaper, and faster due to its light weight. Fiat sold the 500 here briefly, 1958-1962, along with the 600, as the cheapest cars for sale in USA. This would have combined extremely low price with Beetle-beating performance, and was a missed opportunity for Fiat here. By the way I'm glad I have my 2018 Abarth 500, what is left of Fiat (Stellantis) corporate is brain dead. They pulled the 500 from USA at precisely the wrong moment, the car would now be selling in huge numbers with the $5/gallon record high gas prices. I just drove the car on a 3500 mile road trip and got 15km/l

@romanpaladino 2 жыл бұрын

Always an interesting video, never disappoints. And what a cool "could've been" to think about. Especially since I love Moto Guzzis. I"ve been lusting for a V7 for a while now.

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

Same here: love the current V7, especially the recently updated model with the larger engine. Thank you for your appreciation, by the way!

@bertone83 2 жыл бұрын

You are showing an eastern German KR51 "Schwalbe" in 0:59

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

Eagle eye :) I needed copyright-free footage of an old motorbike/scooter, and that’s what I could find ☺️

@philipansell 2 ай бұрын

Interesting. Like the idea in 2024, would keep up with the traffic!

@Matteo_Licata 2 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it. It's an interesting thought, but probably too much hassle for what it's worth. There are plenty of ways to make a 500 faster without having to install a Guzzi engine!

@ThomasD1962 2 жыл бұрын

This story reminds me of the Ferrari-Gilera F1 car of 1961!

@JethroBronner 2 жыл бұрын

Oh wow. Maybe I should be looking for a Moto Guzzi engine for my Fiat project!

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

That would make for awesome video material and a fun car to drive once done… I would certainly watch that! :)

@oliveroneill1388 2 жыл бұрын

Another great job . Balissimo

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!!!

@DDd-hr6mz 2 жыл бұрын

Better still was the idea to join two blocks from the Benelli Sei and create a 1500cc V-12 Fiat X1-9. Never got past the talking stage, but it did make the automotive press.

@giorgiogrillo7418 2 жыл бұрын

Molto interessante! Ne avevo letto da qualche parte ma non avevo nessun dettaglio. Grazie

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

Grazie a te! Mi fa piacere!

@BanjoLuke1 2 жыл бұрын

This is a fascinating video. There is so much myth about this motor.... (It is wrongly thought by many to be the same unit that later went onto the V7). But you have stripped away all the fiction. It has been a dream of mine for some years to fit a Guzzi twin into a Fiat 500 or 600 or (more likely because of availability of body shells) a Zastava 750. I used to ride 850 and 1000cc Guzzis and always thought the power delivery would be ideal for a small car. I had a V50 and thought that perhaps the nicest Guzzi. In some ways the standard T3 or 1000SP motor was more like a dieael than a petrol motor, but with added character. A lot of added character. Even a V50 motor (or V65) would offer significantly more.power than any Abarth 500 or 595. And there would be that intoxicating Guzzi low-rev "wobble" and the twist of the driveline on take-up. Cooling would be an issue.... One of many. Crank direction another.... Union with the transmission another.... And of course the engine would be very different from the original design for the "sporty" Fiat 500. I still imagine such a car as I doze late in the evening. Another good video. And somehow also proof that I am not entirely mad to believe that the Fiat 500 is in need of a torquey V-twin to let it roar....

@stephenswift9868 2 жыл бұрын

Sounds good to me!

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I'm a fan of Moto Guzzi too, and I'm happy to see the brand is doing well nowadays. People have indeed transplanted Guzzi twins into small Fiats, I've bumped onto many builds while researching for this topic. Cooling would definitely be an issue, with the cylinders no longer exposed to incoming air: that's why the engine Guzzi designed for the Fiat 500 had an axial fan and there was sheet metal cowling to direct the flow towards the cylinders and heads.

@michaflak5174 2 жыл бұрын

I'm not really fan of Fiats offer, but I'm positive that this car would be a blast to drive...

@vojtara Жыл бұрын

Interesting and well made video as always! I never knew about this engine in Fiat 500, but one thing springs to my mind instantly. They should have tried offer it to Autobianchi for Bianchina. I know that in Italy it was viewed as Fiat 500 for loosers, but still I think, that more powerful and sporty version could have some success.

@Matteo_Licata Жыл бұрын

Thank you! The Bianchina acquired a lousy reputation only after it left production, when comedian Paolo Villaggio selected it as the ride of his popular character Fantozzi. In the beginning, it was actually more popular than the 500 itself, which started selling well only from 1960 onwards.

@jayartz8562 2 жыл бұрын

A Guzzi FIAT would have been brilliant.

@martinclapton2724 2 жыл бұрын

This is totally new to me so many thanks for the informative video , as always . What I did hear of was an Italian motor bike which used a Fiat engine , so the other way round to what happened in this video. I think the bike was a Benelli and they used the 907cc engine from the 850 sport or 127 models , perhaps you know more details Matteo ?

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I know of a ‘bike made in period with Fiat’s 903cc engine, but it’s only something I’ve heard about. It wasn’t a project by a known firm, but rather a personal project from enthusiasts

@martinclapton2724 2 жыл бұрын

@@philhawley1219 Funny you say that. The reason I came to know , was my son worked for a garage in Kidderminster, doing his apprenticeship. One of the mechanics had this bike , with a Fiat engine in. Apparently , in lovely condition, but I never got to physically see it, although Italian but not perfectly clear on the manufacture. I was in the Fiat Motor Club GB at the time ( owning a Fiat 132 1800 ES , at the time) and would occasionally write articles for the club magazine , Parliamino , so it would have made a very interesting article at the time, . A Fiat 127 on 2 wheels if you like! Must look to find more info. Thanks for that , Nice One

@stevenfernando1842 2 жыл бұрын

Someone should do restomods based on this with modern Moto Guzzi engines and market it

@jono.pom-downunder 2 жыл бұрын

Back in the 70s/80s Lomax kit cars used the Citroen 375 V2 or the 500 V2 {as their performance engine} on their BSA 3 wheeler style car and you could also get a kit to upgrade the 2CV transplanting the Moto Guzzi - it made the French pram a reasonable runner.

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

That's something I didn't know! Was the Lomax a fun car to drive?

@jono.pom-downunder 2 жыл бұрын

@@Matteo_Licata I believe the 3 wheeler was hectic like today's Morgan trike but the old 4 wheels reasonable for an open glass fibre coffin. If I remember they were both based around the 2cv running gear hence the adaptation to fit Guzzi engines and at one stage the horizontal BMW twins.but it was a long time ago so Iay have FUBAR'd some of it.- I'll have to go and fact check it 🤔

@wickiezulu Жыл бұрын

Another reason the Guzzi engined 500 never happened was because Moto Guzzi could not supply the amount of V-Twins Fiat wanted. What does stand out would be the idea of a Guzzi V-Twin car being looked at for the Innocenti Mini in one prototype, however it is not clear why the Guzzi V7 500 was viable yet the Guzzi V65 Mini wasn’t and if it was down to differences in weight, layout (RR vs FF) or again supply issues (and the cost of expansion) between the two cars despite both Innocenti and Moto Guzzi being under the same roof. After all a Fiat developed V-Twin was looked at during 600 project.

@1258-Eckhart 2 жыл бұрын

Maybe you could do a video on how the and why Steyr-Puch Fiat 500 project came about.

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

Good idea, thank you!

@franciscomelendez3894 2 жыл бұрын

Steyr- Puch: 2cylinder/180°, much better air cooled engine.

@Sebi076 2 жыл бұрын

their engine would have worked much better than the regular I2 engine for the Fiat. less vibration too! And the extra power was good for travelers who loaded their 500 to the brim.

@jeremykeller211 Жыл бұрын

Multo interessante! I had heard a few times that the Guzzi engine was designed for a NATO spec jeep. This could still be true regardless of the relationship with Fiat.

@Matteo_Licata Жыл бұрын

Indeed Guzzi designed a V2 that went into a light military off-road vehicle, the so-called “mulo meccanico” destined for the Alpini regiment

@DanielCurti 2 жыл бұрын

What a good idea, so advanced on time. Of course Fiat put their hands.

@emilianocaprili4160 2 жыл бұрын

Then that V-twin became the engine of the Moto Guzzi Mulo Meccanico and of all the Moto Guzzi bikes. P.S. Maybe I'm wrong, but in the early eighties the Guzzi V-twin was also tested in the Innocenti Small; before the adoption of the Daihatsu three cylinders.

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I remember that Innocenti prototype, back when DeTomaso owned both companies.

@kevgermany 2 жыл бұрын

Was this the same engine that went into their motorbikes? I heard stories that the motorbike engine was from a military vehicle. My brother and a friend d had 850cc Le Man's in the late 70s/early 80s. Incredible handling, but not as quick as my Laverda.

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

The 700cc motor that went into the original V7 is not directly related to the wannabe-Fiat 500 engine, but they were indeed designed by the same people just a few years apart. However, the first prototype (1958) of the engine intended for Fiat was indeed related to the one designed for the so-called "mulo meccanico" military vehicle.

@kevgermany 2 жыл бұрын

@@Matteo_Licata thanks Matteo. Another confusion cleared up.

@silviofontana5144 2 жыл бұрын

a fiat 500 with a guzzi engine would be nice in a collection, I wonder how many where made?

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

None. The project was canceled and only a few prototype engines were built

@graemelliott3942 2 жыл бұрын

How many HPs did the Abarth 500 have?

@hugobloemers4425 2 жыл бұрын

Something comparable to the Moto Guzzi. Mean while in a parallel universe Abarth and Moto Guzzi got in to a horse power war for Fiat 500 specials, much to the delight of petrol heads all around the world.

@paullacey2999 2 жыл бұрын

Piaggio of Vespa fame built a small car as well,FIAT werent very impressed at the time.Maybe a story for the future😉

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

Indeed :)

@massimobernardo- 2 жыл бұрын

Piaggio ora è proprietaria di Guzzi. Agnelli e Piaggio si sono imparentati Giovannino sarebbe stato l'erede della Fiat non J. Elkann

@paulmeester5401 2 жыл бұрын

I never understood why they did not use a v twin instead of the in line twinair of recent years... let moto guzzi develop some parts for it and get a licence to use the name moto guzzi on the head and it would have sold much better.....

@Matteo_Licata 2 жыл бұрын

A v twin would have likely been more expensive to make, due to the need for two cylinder heads rather than one.