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You guys went the wrong way with this topic in the first 2 minutes of the video. Talking about makeup artist is making money and if you have a job you’re making money. You guys know good and well nobody is calling anyone a shill because they are making money in the fire arms industry. We, the viewers of these free videos, are sick of people being paid to give us dishonest positive reviews on products that are junk. That’s what we are talking about when we call out shills. And then they lie to us and say they are not being pay for their opinions. It’s the dishonesty of the profession that makes them a shill not the fact that they are making money.

Money isnt the problem, thats an obfuscation of the issue. The problem is liars...

We don’t care if GunTubers make money. In fact, most reasonable people want them to make money so we can continue to enjoy their content. We simply don’t want them to get paid to put out a positive review on a dog shit product when it comes to life saving equipment

I think one of the reasons people are so touchy about this is the nature of the tools being promoted and bought. Someone buys a surfboard that doesn’t work well, they’re out some money but probably not in a life or death situation. Someone buys a firearm based on a review they watched that was dishonest, they or their family could pay the ultimate price for it.

It’s not about being paid for a review. It’s about the fear of a negative review keeping a company from working with you again. It incentivizes you to be positive

Ya'll might like Brownell's, but let's not forget, Brownell's is one of the companies, that handed over their customer information, that led to the prosecution, and conviction, of Dexter Taylor in NY, for just buying parts! He ends up being charged with illegal firearms, which they are not. He bought 80% recievers, and parts, and assembled his own guns, never attempted to sell, they were personal, which is covered by the 2A. In his trial, the judge said the 2A doesn't exist in this courtroom, so guess what, he's now in prison, waiting for appeal, he was not prohibited from owning firearms, and had no criminal record. Thanks Brownell's, you get to take that L, along with liberty safe!

Chris from Honest Outlaw and Mike from Mr guns&gear are my favorite reviewer

Violating SEC regs is leviathan’s purpose.

Sometimes they send production models and claim it’s a prototype

No we got to this point because youtubers go on about their unwavering character and then lie making people spend good hard earned dollars on crap products

Ah yes the clickbait Scholar

I have no issues with anyone being compensated for their work, however... This industry is different from any other in that these are tools that are used for self preservation, a matter of life and death..(so to speak.) When an item is trash and the reviewer is pushing positive feedback to promote sales because he's being paid and doesn't want to ruin their relationship with the company...that I have an issue with. That's considered a shill and is disingenuous. The consumer spends their hard earned doll hairs to find the item is nothing like said reviewer stated in their video. I truly miss the days reviews were being done for fun than financial gain. At least back then, reviewers were being honest and didn't compromise their integrity. Good topic👍

That's the biggest thing is that creators are honest to the viewers.

That’s kinda crazy they wanted you to spend $1000 your own ammo on a gun you can’t keep lol

Leviathan Group. I don’t get paid for this product review. Yes, you did.

My hang up is when gun tubers start telling you that you need this 1500 optic or 3000 AR or this 7000 NODs because youll die or fail in shtf or self defense while getting most of their products and ammo ect for free or deep discount . While maling the average consumer feel like they are a poor ..

I think it's because buying a bad gun could cost you your life, so people want an honest review. And when you're playing with hundreds to thousands of dollars, people can't afford to buy a crap product and then just be okay with eating the cost. Buy once, cry once is the motto, but when you do months of research and you save up enough for the gun you want and it fails, you're not trusting the people who convinced you that was the right tool for you at the moment /price point.

This is why I typically buy all my own firearms for review. I'll get red dots from companies, but I don't hold back on beating up the free products. Not really in it for the money. I just love making content

I find it easier to be more objective and emotionally disconnected from the outcome of a review, when I don't I have my own money invested in a product. At the end of the day, I think most of us try to eliminate as much bias as possible due to the nature of products reviewed having the potential of saving someone's life.

Getting paid doesn't make you a shill. Lying and/or hiding relevant information does make you a shill. This happens and is called out in any industry that uses "influencers" to advertise.

I'm an old soldier (70). I don't give my friendship easily, but I assure the three of you that you have it. I'm here in Northwest Alabama. Any way I can be of help to you fellers, I'm here. Shalom!!!

I’d love to be a paid shill. My only problem is that I can’t lie to save my life.

Loving the liberty lounge! Keep up the awesome work!

Love your podcast. Usually listen to at work while driving the rig. You guys and many others both gun reviews and podcast. Thank you all for what you do.

I am also smart enough to good or bad I know it’s a sample size of one. So if they had a bad experience with a gun. It doesn’t mean all are bad or good

You guys are the giants in the industry! I decided to create a pew pew review channel in large part because of channels like y’all’s. For that, I humbly thank you for the inspirations. Y’all have a lasting legacy, as does much of “guntube.” I look forward to the next discussion!

Do what you're not understanding when it comes to these page Shields is that some of us only get one shot at buying a gun because we live week to week. So some of us actually depend on the things these people on KZfaq say about particular guns. We come to you and watch your video's because we're hoping you can help us spend our money. So obviously we want someone who is being honest because this is our hard-earned money that's going to buy something that we may have to depend on at some point to save our life or the life of someone we love. So I don't think it's too much to ask that you are honest and not a paid shill. And if you are going to be a paid shill at the very least tell us that you have a contract with PSA that you review their products and that you usually like them(their products) and are probably a bit biased. Its that simple. Just be honest

All advertising should be taken with a grain of salt, however everyone must make a living. I never look a one review. if your up front, I do not care if your paid. I just saw a optics reviewer beat a scope against a tree for 3 minutes, WHY???

Hyping up garbage products has no place anywhere! Whole lot of people reviewing guns and related products that have no basic mechanical or quality understanding. If your video starts with you regurgitating the “specs” I tune out. I can get the “spec” from the manufacturer.

Sticking to smaller channels for gun/gear reviews these days. Still like some bigger channels for certain stuff, especially 2A news and discussion about what’s happening at Federal level.

With regards to the PSA jakl bullshit, they vary in quality. It's fair to say that if one was sent to a youtuber, it was probably a higher quality one that actually got double checked.

I agree with y’all the only thing is that a firearm is something I’m trusting to protect me and my family’s life with and other products don’t have that responsibility

Anyone with “honest” in their name makes me question them even more. People that talk about how honest they are usually aren’t.

I hope they do a follow up video to the comments on this video

Thanks guys

Y'all really dropped the ball on this one.

So I just recently started my own channel. How big of a channel should I have before I start reaching out to companies?

There's 1 thing a person whos watching these videos need to know... It's up to us as the consumer to make an informed decision about what we buy. So never just take a single person's opinion these videos are free, and the info is out there. Yes theres 100% paid shills out there but if you watch several reviews you'll get all the info you need to make a good decision.

Good episode, as someone who recently got into this guntuber thing, my opinions have changed on a few things and others it has not. Some of the new guntubers I know seem to be selling certain parts of their integrity for very little return, I think that they will not be as successful because the audience now is more educated. My opinion of leviathan has gotten better as I see them providing creators an avenue to not be taken advantage of by companies. I started my channel because I felt I was recommended a lackluster product and I wanted to provide my average opinion in hopes of preventing other consumers from feeling disappointed with a purchase. I am lucky to have expedited friendships and relationships in the industry thanks to Johnny and Jared, and hoping I never disappoint them by comprising my integrity for anything less than FU money 😂

Race teams have had sponsors for years

I have zero issues with someone having to send a gun back. I want to know what the company's response was, how it was handled, and how it ran afterwards. I have had issues with parts that were out of spec or new guns that something simple broke on the first time out. Instead of fixing myself i call the company and get their response. Most times they ship a replacement part and incase of the rifle they ask for me to send it in for inspection and testing. We are dealing with companies that use machines (that get out of spec) and CQ cant catch everything.

I always watch reviews only from the smaller channels . They will give their honest opinion..has not failed me yet

Reviewers need to be honest with the audience between hard use, long term reliability vs fun for the range etc. As an example PSA AKs aren’t dimpled receivers and using swell neck rivets so don’t expect comm block reliability 30 year item. Also some guys will say no money changed hands but they won’t say money was sent to Leviathan and they paid the reviewer. Just be fully transparent and mainly I watch for entertainment. One individual isn’t going to influence me to buy something.

Good morning to all

Anthony, I think that in the firearms industry they may have the opinion that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Guys, about the paid shill thing, part of the reason some people might be getting upset about it, is the fact that if the SHTF your life may depend on it.

Good morning all from down state USSR Illinois

Simply because it sticks with what works best for your needs.

I dunno. Really bummed to hear you guys misrepresent what's considered a shill at the beginning of the video. We don't have a problem with you getting paid, you deserve it. We appreciate the content. That said, we don't want to have crap products pushed on us by the companies you work for. And it certainly seems like some of that is coming out of Leviathan.

I'll admit I get jealous that alot of the KZfaq reviewers get the free stuff

well, I suppose I need to listen to this one.

Paid shills are only in the firearm industry? Hell no that's not true... we call out paid shills a lot in any say entertainment industries... or the health food or lifestyle industries or many other things... yes it's find getting paid.. but a paid shill is someone that is dishonest for that money

How about how so many guntubers all of a sudden ended up with silencer central banish suppressors. Then only test rifles with those suppressors on. That is one of many examples. Or about about a rifle test or only shooting Remington ammo. It becomes a useless review of the rifle if you do t test without the suppressor or use different ammo.

Straight customer service and relationships ar very important for everyone in the 2A Community 😮 Definitely

Hey everyone, look! A bunch of Leviathan dudes explaining to us how they aren't shills for Leviathan.

You guys are wrong in the first 1 minute of this podcast. You don’t even understand what frustrates us when it comes to shills. You don’t even understand the definition of a shill. 😂 holy crap. And you THREE are THE BIGGEST clock bait artists in this industry!!!! 😂

I saw a review from Honest Outlaw about the Springfield ST Victor 556, and it was a dumpster fire. But another reviewer that I trust he has 5,000 rounds through his. But I am still hesitant on buying. Because I am lucky if I can buy two guns a year

This is why no matter what gun it is, a 600.00 turk shotgun, or a 3500.00 MP7 clone, i leave any and all malfunctions in the video However nowadays, with manufacturing being so good, i have more guns that work great, versus ones that dont.

I respect you boys and I can normally tell in the first few minutes if I am even going to listen to whatever guy is reviewing whatever. That said I am obsessed with precision gas gun. And I promise you folks I will absolutely be nice and sweet avoiding anything negative if nightforce provided me some glass and I except all forms of mk262 clones and proof barrels or whatever

4th of July, the real PRIDE day!

I love the fact that you folks can make money doing what your doing. The only thing I don't like, guys saying the Jakl is a great gun, when in fact they suck. People work hard for their money, many fall for what they hear on the tube.

You guys gota get a Reno May interview!

One company whose guns I rarely see reviews of is Italian Firearms Group.

I beleive about a 3rd of the info on social media I've heard it all glocks junk akm's jam if u don't spend 2500 on a ar15 it's a budget purchase I need to spend 4k on nods that's not getting used or I'm a poor guntube has become garbage for the most part

Great job gents

It's a simple process you buy yourself and honestly say what you think about it, and they supply you with it you put it out openly and say what you want and think about it, the thing is that you are very straight and clear on the item 😏 🤔

110sassactual is probably the only non shill guntuber

The issue is that people don't trust salesman. And for good reason. Most are slimy and will say anything to make their commission. When reviewers are paid and it's obvious they're biased, we all get the same "used car salesman" vibes.

Then there is the Olight way where it seems like every channel no matter what they normal genre is they are reviewing a new olight

It's pretty simple, we just want honest reviews. Don't care if you got paid or got it for free or whatever.. But being paid to do positive reviews on something that isn't actually good is deceiving and quite frankly dirty. Hence the whole Olight situation.. they actually sucked. No way around it, but they were paying big amounts for positive reviews even though they had major flaws. That's dirty. Firearms are life saving equipment, so comparing this industry to makeup or whatever other industry for that matter is a moot point. If I can pay you to say something is good when it's not you're a shill. That simple.

I think we all know that these are jobs for most guntubers, or if not a primary source od income, its a secondary source. The problem isnt the money, its the fact that people think some are paid for positive reviews on crap guns. The most reason example was the DD pistol. Saw a couple of good reviews before all the backlash started.

I view KZfaq videos as free plus I have no idea what goes into them, so if a KZfaqr is benefiting, it seems like a hell of a deal to me. I get that that isn’t fair, but that’s my natural perception.

It's simple. Firearms are so important in American culture that there are countless brands. People tend to be brand-loyalists and when they love a particular firearm, they hate to see anything negative about it. You can't make everybody happy, you just have to be honest with your reviews. Also viewers need to have the understanding that just because 1 person has a bad experience with a firearm, that doesn't necessarily mean that others can't have a good experience with it. My P365 might run flawlessly and your P365 might run like crap. It's on a per gun basis.

The industry has had "paid shills" for decades. I don't know about you but I've never seen a bad gun review in traditional print media. I even remember when Guns & Ammo gave a glowing review of the Remington R51.

I came with Jarod to this pod Awesome content creator

Dont try to sell me USCCA insurance just because your getting paid to do so. Your just setting up your fans to purchase something that most likely will not be there for them when they need it

The issue is that a firearm is something somebody's life may depend on. Whether they use it to defend themselves, protect someone else, or if the only concern that ever comes up is whether the gun is gonna go off if you drop it or randomly in the holster. Even if it's a matter of if the gun is going functions reliably after you spent thousands of dollars to harvest a once-in-a-lifetime trophy or a young hunter's first deer, the business of guns is very serious. So people get understandably upset if they find out someone is potentially promoting a shitty product because they are getting paid to or in exchange for access to new products when the end customer is dependent on them for serious purposes. And that is why people in guntube are so up-in-arms over shills.

Which South Park characters voice sounds like this guy in the hat ? 😂… 👍🏼🥃🇺🇸

In says soville court!

Ok that's all fine and well but you can't tell me Garand thumb isn't a schill now

🇺🇸

As far back as I can remember, I pay extra for KZfaq Premium. I did this so I didn't have to watch the commercials. So, when the channels I watched started doing their own hard commercials, I got pissed off. I was paying KZfaq extra monthly so I didn't have to watch them and now I was being forced to watch them anyway. That was very short sided of me. I didn't realize that KZfaq was practically cutting the channels advertising payments to nothing due to policy changes. When I found this out, I had a new outlook on the channels hard commercials. For the channels to survive, they had to create another income stream. And to be honest, the hard commercials are for products that I am actually interested in.

Guys go watch Focus Tripp response video , you will be shocked to find out that this guys were not genuine in their statements, and you will learn how things actually work with gun youtubers

It is not unique to the gun industry. People don't like it when influencers take money to promote a terrible product. People really don't like it when influencers recommend an unreliable tool that they intend to use to stay alive. You guys referenced Cosmetics Influencers. The irony in that is wild. My wife keeps me apprised of all "the tea" in her feed. There have been numerous Cosmetic Influencers that have been completely cancelled because they recommended bad products.

I’ll give you a tip Hollywood when you say talent agency start there so it’s not only them it’s alot of agencies from what I read around and may be jealousy to

Thunder Ranch did a test on a PSA upper. They put it on an M16/M4 lower with the giggle switch. They fired it first for accuracy to get a base line and got a .5 moa. They fired 1000 rounds full auto and then repeated the accuracy test still under 1 moa. They then went back and ran another thousand or two thru it, then did an accuracy test still under 1moa . Then they ran it hard again, rinse and repeat. At 7 or 8 thousand rounds, they broke out of 1 moa to about 1.25 moa. I loved the video, but I nor anyone I know will ever abuse an upper like they did. I've bought several.

In my unsolicited opinion, the greatest issue in this corner of the internet has less to do with the act of people taking cash for reviews and going soft on bad products(which isn’t great by itself), but has more to do with what causes the shilling; which is the industry’s proliferation of unnecessary products, arbitrary ideas and fabircated(theory crafted) use cases for all of those things through fear tactics(and instilling feelings of inadequacy) simply because the industry needs to create increasingly more niche products to keep the market growing; this is in conjunction with content creators suffering content starvation, and needing also increasingly unique and niche things to talk about to keep an audience. Sadly, all of that has to be the case for this subculture and media platform to stay afloat. It’s just the nature of the thing by virtue of this being an INDUSTRY; and one that is largely ran by unscrupulous business men and con artists. Edit: also, don’t trust a company named after a biblical demonic figure, who uses an octopus in their logo to show you they have their literal tendrils in, around and behind many things 😂

A show talking about shills and grifters has a guest with some of the worst clickbait titles and thumbnails for his videos that say basically nothing. Great idea.

Same thing in medicine. People look down on you when you want to make money for what you do.

LOL i remember yankee marshal 😅

I think people only have an issue, is with those that review something for $, and give it a positive review, driving sales, when it's an inferior product.

One of the things keeping kids involved with guns is Call Of Duty. It's a gateway. Plus, there's plenty of good old boys being made still to this day. I know tons of people from 18-30 years old that are into guns.

The issue is when ppl give positive reviews for known shite. Also, to say certain people’s reviews can’t be bought is incredibly naive. Monies is always exchanged on some level. Directly or indirectly

Plenty of big “tough” dudes out there whining about all sorts of shit. This issue/drama is not unique to the 2A community.

The whole “paid shill” thing isn’t exclusive to the gun community. I have other hobbies, home audio, mountain biking. People in those crowds also accuse creators of doing the same. I guess people just expect you all to just entertain them for free.99…

The firearm industry recognizes that the social media space is highly biased, and punitive to the the 2A product issues. Following their own community standards/rules isn't enough, you still get cancelled after building the site up. Ask me how I know.

I don’t have a problem with people making money. I have a problem with people selling positive reviews for money.

This guys are one of the biggest paid shields in the gun youtubers sphere 😂😂 Focus Tripp did a response video to this exact vidoe of theirs , exposing them for their lies

Id guess its because you are reviewing life saving equipment. If someone gives a glowing review of a fire extinguisher that actually didn’t work. Then a bunch of people go out and buy it. You see my point. Thats why people take it so personally. I just assume the reviews are paid for.

I work hard for my money, and if a trusted guntuber gives a dishonest review about a firearm they didnt pay for, that's a major investment for someone in my position that requires months of saving to make the purchase. if I save for months to buy a firearm for a thousand dollars, that ____ said was great but totally lied, im going to be fucking pissed because gun shops typically don't have a refund policy on firearms