Those single nacelled starships remind me of a motorized unicycle. If there is such a thing as a motorized unicycle. 😂

Seems a bit of an insult to the revered Capt. Archer to name such a pathetic little ship after him.

I think an easy way to make single nacelle ships work in canon, even without breaking Roddenberry's golden rule, is to just consider the single nacelle as just an outer body that, functionally, contains two nacelles inside of it, thus still having a pair. But since the outer nacelle is the same size theyre obviously half as wide and in a firefight one shot can cripple both nacelles.

The archer as runabout type ship makes sense. That role still would have been needed. Also makes sense why it failed, the result was still just too big with the technology available

Archer type having 3 crew was because of the mission it was on, they didn't want even more people knowing about the whole Red Angel/Control ordeal. I assume that the crew count is usually much higher.

The only other single nacelle design I can recall (in the Starfleet roster, at least) is the Freedom class, which is for all intents and purposes a TNG-ish era Hermes/Saladin which only exists in a debris field.

I imagine the Archer-type would be phased out as shuttlecraft were fitted with warp engines. It was probably a courier and transport ship, something that shuttles would be better at once they were capable of warp travel.

GODS i love your class presentations, Rick. Keep em coming! Every class you can do! These are spectacular!!!

I always liked the Hermes and Saladin class ships.

You have no idea how much I needed this video. Going through memory alpha can only give you so much.

Love ya Rick! you are the only Star Trek commentator I tune in to. Keep Up the good work. Thank you.

Love the sleek look of the single nacelle designs, like a Katana motorcycle. Also SNW introduced another single nacelle design, apparently a diplomatic courier, in the second season episode 'Under The Cloak Of War', the USS Kelcie Mae.

congrats sir another amaizing video !

Always informative!

Say what you want of JJ Trek, but the _Kelvin's_ design with a long slender nacelle with a short pylon tucked close to the saucer is the best looking take on making a single nacelle ship.

I like the idea that they are made for known space where subspace has been mapped out completely. So it doesn’t need redundancy to smooth out any warp “bumps”

ALWAYS wondered about this - thank you! o7

the single Nacelle design makes sense if the sheer rapid expansion of volume of the early Federation . needed a ship that was able to be built fast and with as little components and material as possible until Starfleet got it's resources such as warp coil production up to speed

Gene Roddenberry's rules are a limiting factor in ship design in Star Trek. Plus didn't he make the rules after a bad argument with Franz Joseph?

The size differences have been explained by the Yeager class - industrial replicators have a size setting and when they were making some Marquis Raiders a decimal point was misplaced. Starfleet must have been pioneering using industrial replicators for Starship construction at this time and were playing around with the size settings.

One of my biggest nitpicks regarding the 2009 JJ-trek film is that the Kelvin already bear likeness to the redesign Constitution class even through that single nacelle ship should have look closer of tos ships like Hermes/Saladin Class as it was created before the arrival of Nero...and thus before the divergence with the Prime timeline

I would also love to see a video where you discuss what ships can and cannot make planetary landings. And why some of them cannot in the first place but can fly through the atmosphere. One would think that if you can fly through the atmosphere then surely you can land safely even if you don't have landing gear.

I read an idea somewhere that single nacelle designs do actually have two nacelles, just that they were stuffed side by side in one casing and shared one Bussard collector, etc.

For some reason it made me happy to like the video and increase from 999 to 1k. Simple pleasures for simple minds.

I was just thinking of the Hermes and Saladin last night, for completely unrelated reasons, and a side-quest to Memory Alpha delayed my going to bed by a good 10-15 minutes. This video would have been posted by then, but I didn't go to youtube, so didn't see it until today. Quite the coincidence. I wish we could see more of the Franz Josef designs on-screen, even if they're just background ships.

Hi Rick, cant wait to your grandkids channel explains the 5 warp nacelle.

Let's not forget the Apollo class which came off the basis of the Hermes and Saladin lines. Fun ships to fly in the Star Trek Legacy game

In TOS the Antimatter was stored in the Engines. It was established in multiple episodes and alluded to in TMP when Decker said the phasers were powered through the engines during the wormhole scene. The invention of the Antimatter chamber was so that they could have a deadly thing on the ship to kill Spock at the end of TWOK. So the more nacelles you have, the more power was generated in TOS science. It really makes sense if you think about it. As small scout ship needs only one engine, but the clunky and huge Stargazer needed 4 to keep it flying. :)

I first saw this design back in 1980 or so... (the one with the big antennae dish on the deflector dish area) Now that dual nacelles have been ruled to be in pairs, the more I see this ship I imagine it jumping to warp but tragically spinning forward like a cartoon top and self destructing or something from the structural stress (like I said like a cartoon)

Interesting ship indeed

I believe the reason for having more than two nacelles is for sustained maximum Warp. Whenever we hear about how fast a ship can go, it's also mentioned how long they can hold that top speed. Seems logical to me that having extra in the cells would extend the amount of time you could remain at your top speed you just cycle through your nacelles, running two of them at Max letting the other two rest then you switch them.

In the SFTM, the Hermes was a scout, the Saladin was a destroyer, the Constellation was a heavy cruiser, then there was a Dreadnought class with three nacelles.

I've always liked the look of the single nacelle ships

The first single nacelle ship I remember seeing was the Larson-class destroyer in FASA's UFP Starship Recognition Guide from the mid-80s.

At last. An incredible spaceship in star trek.

I’d like it to look like my ship is always about to fall over, please and thank you.

I like the smaller ships in Star Trek, and this is a lovely design.

I'm sure this is simply because of pure nostalgia (I still have the afore mentioned handbook in my library) but the single nacelle design has always been a favorite of mine.

In the Starfleet Museum site before nuTrek, after the Farragut incident with the vampire energy cloud, Kirk commanded a Predator class ship(looks like the Hermes class but pre-TOS style). His actions behind the Klingons' lines as merchant raider&exposing a cabal of rogue Starfleet officers(Cartwright's group) that got him promoted to be the captain of the Enterprise.

I like the idea that these single nacelle designs were for cheap transportation type craft where your crew would be on a 12 to 48 hour warp flight from one system to another. The single nacelle makes engineering tuning reliable and can be crewed by less people, leaving more room for passengers or supplies.

The problem i always had with the Hermes/Saladin from the manual was that all you need to do was add 2 more phasers, add photon torpedo launchers, and 5 more redshirts, then the Hernes becomes a Saladin class. Having an Archer type makes more sense as a scout than the actual Hermes. Added that if we imposed the Roddenberry rules, then we wouldn't have had the USS Kelvin.

love this class, wishing they had used the archer class from the books, hoping that we see a federation class in snw.

Single nacelle designs look like they fit the "cheap and cheerful" moniker, ships that don't need to go fast but have a job to do, be it cargo transport, or things such as survey duties that don't need firepower or fast reaction times. (I guess a starfleet version of economy class on a hermes vs first class on a constitution)

It looks so funny haha!

I always put single-nacelles in my "you probably see a lot of these in your own territory, where support could show up quickly" head canon. Like, this is the kind of ship most people in the Federation have physically seen. I bet you see a LOT of single nacelle designs for the "Non-Starfleet" ships too--all the internal shipping and patrol ships.

There's also the Freedom Class USS Firebrand created as a background model wreckage for the Battle of Worf 359, which was a 24th Century single nacelle ship mostly based around galaxy class style parts.

In the SFU (which is based on the SFTM), the Hermes and Saladin were the same hull, the difference being that the Saladin was an all-purpose patrol ship, while the Hermes was a specialized scout with the photon torpedoes replaced by a specialized sensor suite.

The problem isn't just the single nacelle. It's that it's further forward than those on the Constellation class; it's not even partially hidden by the main hull from the POV of ahead and particularly below. So it's quite easy to cripple the ship with one (fairly) good hit. My advice if you ever find yourself serving on one of these: get a transfer.

With the cold war with the klingons before the praxis incident, it does make sense that the miranda took over many of these roles. With building up for a war the saladin might have been deemed an insufficient deterrent on patrol. And with the quick downsizing post kitomer using the mirandas for anything else lets starfleet keep them in service.

I guffaw'ed when you pointed out that the role of the Archer-type could be fulfilled by a Runabout, considering that I'm pretty sure the Runabout assigned to DS9 probably held a record for "number of first contact missions by a craft with one deck". Considering the ST universe's propensity for large ships to have greater power access leading to higher speeds, I wonder how civilian ships manage travel. Are there just high warp supercontainer ships transporting cargo and passengers between the planets of the inner federation? Sure, government officials can either use military ships or presumably ask/buy passage from Star Fleet vessels. But, how do you quickly and cheaply transport the megatons of non-replicatable or prestige products that are produced on various Fed planets between markets? Kik would have to really owe someone a favor in order be willing to use his Enterprise to transport a bunch of bottled wine, no matter the quality. It's not impossible for individuals to own lesser warp-craft, even in the 2200's, but we know almost nothing about most of them, other than they tended to within a few multiples of the size of a smaller shuttlecraft. (i.e. 2-3X larger at most, but still dwarfed by even Voyager or NX-01.)

Ship size discrepancies are easily explained. It’s Q playing with his tape measure.

lol can we add peanut hampers little warp ship to the single nacelle list

If you haven't done a video about it yet, I would love to know what types of cargo could be stored in the transporter buffers versus what has to be physically stored in the storage bays.

The design makes sense, Its more for system defense and screening. Most missions would be where resupply would be easy.

The Saladin was woefully under powered and over gunned

My club's ship was the USS HANNIBAL NCC-512 Saladin Class Destroyer.

Reminds me of the Cali class in its almost-intentional awkwardness

I personally like the “two nacelle” rule, or rather “nacelles work in pairs”.

The Economy Car of Star Trek!

I never wanted an Oberth class so badly.

I think the only single nacelle ship that actually did make it possible was the Kevin, as its nacelle was made to be far larger than a standard nacelle. To my understanding, this is because essentially two nacelles are inside this single nacelle. Allowing the Kelvin to travel with a much more stable warp field. This may also explain why the Kelvin was made to be a far larger ship, despite being an older vessel.

I think the starships in star trek are all the size of models. Maybe only 10 foot long max. The transpoter just shrinks people down when they are beamed aboard. Only way i can think of that allows star fleet to make ships so quickly

I seem to recall reading, in something non-canonical , that the reason the single nacelle designs were phased out had to do with the refit. The lore given that the was that the more slender warp nacelles used on the Enterprise and Miranda refits were not suitable for use in a single nacelle design. As Starfleet modernized it's fleet, these ships were first shuffled off to backwater areas and then later retired as more modern ships, like the Oberth and Miranda refit could take their place.

Looking at these, I think 'Gene's rules' are less 'what's possible/impossible' than 'best/common practice for long term use'. Single-nacelle ships and such are possible...but a pain in the aft to operate and maintain in the long-term (which is why they're used as short-range vessels...closer to starbase/space-dock). They're the mono-bikes and Reliant Robins of the Trek-verse. Possible...but kinda niche.

cruising speed of "get out and push"

Uh....what about the Kelvin Class? Yes, i am aware it's shown in a alternate universe, but the attack on the Kelvin is what gives the timeline its name and is the point of divergence from the "Prime" timeline, so we can be reasonably sure the Kelvin class existed in the "Prime" timeline,no?

I used to have the starfleet tech manual, don't know what happened to it. I still have a copy of Mr Scotts guide to the enterprise signed by the man himself at a convention I went to.

One nacelle starships look like a hand phaser balancing a plater on top.

Could you cover some of the Jackill's designs like the kodiak?

just mention in star trek lower decks They do say the cali class ships took over the job of the hermes class ship as boimler made a scornful remark about how how dated the hermes class ships where that at least the cali class out classed them.

I always figured single nacelle ship simply couldn’t maneuver at warp, they’d have to drop out of warp to change course.

Curious to know where they put the Warpcore.

They should be able to link up to cargo pods, battle wagons or crippled ships. Imagine using as many as 8 to move something massive.

Saladin and Hermes are my favorite style of ship

Ok the second drawing is right as that is from the StarFleet technical Manuel As for that Archer class It's a shipwreck of a design. and best ignored. the original designs were a Scout class and a Destroyer class. FASA designed a Larson class Destroyer, and a Nelson class scout which did use different designs to tell the two classes apart.

I see a parallel with The history of commercial Aviation in the US in the 20th Century. They to had single engines for a while until told it was "Not safe" and they were semi-banned for all but the smallest vehicles.

I would also see them as perfect Training Vessels for Academy Cadets.

To be generous IRL budget concerns do affect ship designs

So what purpose did 3 nacelles serve on the "All Good Things..." Enterprise-D?

If this ship had a phasing cloaking device. For spy work. Then, small crew says 5 for spying mission. The ship would need back up retractable warp 2.9 drives in the saucer section. The secondary hole could be a burnout drive. Achive say warp12.9 old scale and warp 10 new scale. The saucer sections could detach to change put spent drives in space dock. Then attach to new drives. And the ship would need a heav duty tractor, presser beams. To move moons and large asteroids on to collision course with enemies space installations. A large mater transport. That could beam anti mater into an enemies bridge. Or amomo bunker. And fast escape would render conventional wepons unneeded. Put spys in place, and support them covertly.

I wanted to jump in and ask where the TNG Freedom-class was at? USS Firebrand? Who wouldn't want to serve on a ship called the 'Firebrand'?! Like refusing to fight on a ship called the USS Amerika Fuk Yeah (NCC-WhoGivesAShit) or it's sister ship, the prestigious USS GetOutThaWay (NCC-MOVEBITCH). But other people have already commented about it. All I can say is that these one-nacelle terrors were an absolute PITA to beat in Klingon Academy! (If you've never played Klingon Academy, I'll pray you find as much joy and wonder some other way in your lifetime) I was one of the few (but proud) to have had a ringside seat to the development of the game starting shortly after it was announced. The dev team used the Starfleet Academy engine for KA but you'd be hard pressed to find anything even remotely similar between the two, the team did the damn near impossible with what they had. In fact, even right before release, a short time after the first demo was released, the graphics designer on the team figured out a way to get higher resolutions out of the engine. If he hadn't, the game would have been capped at 640x480! Anyway, in the SKIRMISH mode you can fight a war practically by warping to various sectors and wiping out any Starfleet ships there. You had a choice of many different Klingon ships, around 8 (including the BoP that could fire while cloaked from ST-VI) but unless you picked a battleship, your butt was unceremoniously handed to you rather quickly...and you have these...these single-nacelled bastards to thank for a lot of it! They were lightly armored but fast and in decently large numbers. Oh the times I rage quit from getting blasted again and again! Kinda makes me want to install and play KA again!

K somehow I always had it in my head-canon that twin-nacelle arrangements were preferred because they are mUch more maneuverable. Also, you didn't even mention the Kelcie Mae.

My biggest complaint of the single-nacelle ships is the refusal to take into consideration how that shifts the center of mass, and thus where the impulse engines should go. But they are far from the only offenders in that respect - I'm looking at you, Miranda...

"First on screen" Did yall forget about the USS Kelvin which is cannon albeit in the Kelvinverse?

Deep range ships and battle ships have multiple nacelles, varying from 2 to 4, I would assume based on the number of times we see it on screen that having more than one was just good planing in case one got shot up.

So what class was the Kelvin isn't that a ship b4 the time lines divulged

I always found the single and quad nacelle ships to look kinda derpy.

Warp scale video?

🖖

Just like single engine planes, they are much more dangerous that one with 2.

A crew of 3??, what kind of shift rotation are they on...

A Federation ship for scouting and patrol?

"We can see the scale when its docked beside the constitution class" - then proceeds to show a blurred picture in which nothing can be made out.

Boy they look derpy.

I will now affectionately call these ships, Pizza cutters

The Homies class?! LOL

i have never felt so much hatred for a single fed ship like this one before....

On star Trek legacy it's called the Apollo class

The single nacelle design is perfectly feasible and useable, the only thing it really lacks is the redundancy of a second nacelle. Because we know that a ship CAN make warp on one nacelle but its virtually impossible for it to do so on NO nacelles. And since a single nacelle impells the warp field continuously instead of intermittently like the multi-nacelle designs, that single nacelle needs more maintenance and upkeep than other ships. Its like having a Ferrari as a Police car...its not at all practical but you do it anyway because it makes a statement.

I feel it should tip over, even if it’s in space.