May I annoyomously recommend you do a review on Once Upon A Book, in a YA Choose your own quest (adventure) novel, by Faith Colleen Weaver?

It would be super lame to have to read this version in school in my opinion the original was a thousand times better

I love the review! I don’t especially love the link to Amazon. I know will be a bit more work, but links to independent bookstores that actually care about their staff (unlike Amazon) just go so much further to supporting the book reading community.

Casually dropping bi identification.... good on ya, Daniel!

What people come up with for views/subs... (It was already "dropped" on his Twitter a while ago)

I don't mind the book "remixing" the Illiad, but what I do mind is that most of the choices Miller made to deviate from the original epic served to make The Song of Achilles more misogynist, taking agency away from significant female characters and making them weak, helpless, pathetic, and manipulative plot devices. And let's not even get started on Miller's bisexual erasure...

They'll be disappointed there too. The Illiad doesn't even tell the whole story of the Trojan War. Most of the famous bits aren't even in it. The Judgement of Paris, the Trojan Horse, even the death of Achilles, none of it is actually in the Illiad.

Poetry doesn't really engage me, so I wish there was a good retelling out there. Sadly, this isn't it.

@@IzadoraKatarina I really didn't see the women that way. I think it was a realistic way to show how women would have been treated back then.

@@ilincabogza if even a guy from "back then" (Homer) managed to portray his female characters more respectfully than a 21st century "feminist", i think there is a problem...

It’s an indie book from ancient times. Super low key. Written by this guy Mr. Simpson.

@@DanielGreeneReviews yeah idk after reading Tolkien the Iliad seems kinda... derivative? Like, the world-building is so thin, why are there no elves or dwarves???

@@DanielGreeneReviews that yellow guy?

Omg, it's great to see that two of my favourite KZfaq channels know each other

The retelling of Troy Story. Let's go. Honestly it was an interesting read. Though Daniel This book is kind of amazing in just how well they revised this. Though this is more like an Iliad side story. It's like the author asked "Remeber Achilles, the great unstoppable warrior, let's explore his love life". They made into a really engaging story. It's nice to see more lgbt+ representation in fantasy. Like with The Unspoken Name and the Ruin of Kings series.

agreed

i couldn’t agree more ❤️

I completely agree. The prophecies were that Hector would be the death of Achilles, but Achilles was the death of Achilles and it was a very loud flaw that slapped us in the face in that chapter of the book. Amazing book either way. I really enjoyed it

@@ceciliamwanzah7429 Well, Hector was the internal death of Achilles when he killed Patroclus. But yeah, he only did that because Achilles was too proud

Disagree

It is not a retelling it is just a romance with a greak historian paint

@@ericazahn9689 true and it's terrible.

@@redbloodbluemoon1423 definitely not

@@redbloodbluemoon1423 What part?

"and succeeding" lol most ppl in greece hate that book so

Agreed

A life is a not lived unless it’s filled with memories.

"Speak, then."

This line destroyed me

What they said!! ^

Yeah..me too..but the only problem is that my TBR is so full..after watching more of the videos..

Agreed! Love these review vids

I agree! I´m also a fan of Merphy´s dual reviews

Yeah I think it’s to bad people in the book tuber community ironically won’t watch a book review but like unboxing videos wtf

and my pulse goes up a notch

All I know is that Madeline Miller got bank now 😹

100 emoji. Recently got into epic fantasy thanks to Daniel. before that I was just scouring the Web for any kind of mythology I could find. Now I still do that, but with epic fantasy as well

Yes! I really like SoA but Circe is somehow better, one of the best books I've read in the last 5 years

Circé comes from the Odyssey, same classical roots.

Circe is great

Man really need to check that one out, just haven't gotten around to it.

I read Circe first! I prefer it to SoA but both are great!

I loved Circe even more

I read Circe before this. In my humble opinion this is a million times better

Cersei is by the same author and is also really good.

I have tissues if you need them

Finished reading it 10 minutes ago and yes, my heart was torn out 😭

Never expected to see Gang of Youths mentioned on a Daniel Greene video, respect

I love that song! Thought I was the only one who listened to it

That song is honestly so amazing

That song and Hades were the things that got me to read the book and man am I so glad I did

have you had a chance to read it? id love to know how/if your perspective changed afterwards!

Huh! That’s really nice to hear for some reason.

Kalimera. That's as far as my Greek goes.

@@DanielGreeneReviews haha I grew up with stories encompassing a ton of Greek Myth - Hercules - Clash of Titans - Prometheus --- I guess my Geekness is how I connect with these tellings

**Greekness

@@milospollonia1121 I know the word 'malaka', that has to count, right?

yes!!! i loved reading troy after this

There is another one below the skull! Why Daniel?

I bet he has a closet full of funko pops and its all a lie. Next he isnt a goblin :O

@@marocat4749 le gâsp!

Which books? I can't distinguish them

@@tamakikawaii There are some Dresden Files books on their sides stacked on top of the paperbacks. Looks more like maximizing available space than an aesthetic choice to me.

Yeah, for me, I knew nothing about the original story, so I was a little lost when it came to the politics and all the other Greek mythology character, but it was still enjoyable to read. I didnt know how the death would come in, but it broke me (in a good way, cause I love sad books)..I do think a re-read would be enjoyable and make more sense.

it's always so interesting for me to see the opinions of people who don't know much about mythology, i'm completely enamored with greek myths and read iliad and odyssey before SoA so i knew the prophecies etc and any time a character was introduced it felt like i'm meeting an old friend again which was so damn beautiful, but it also meant i was crying a lot in advance since i knew how everything would fall apart, but i still recommend people to read it completely blind without looking too much into it since that raw emotional exp of seeing the story unfold just seems like an emotional journey that you won't get anywhere else

I envy youuu

Glad to hear you enjoyed the audiobook experience. I've it sitting in my "save for next roadtrip" pile.

@@adamwoods6373 the narrator really does an amazing job in my opinion

Maybe it's because we know how important their memories together will be in the end, so it's even more emotional to see those memories being built.

Yeah, the audiobook narrator really suits the story; the only thing I didn't like was his voice for Achilles. I expected more of a clean sound from him, but otherwise the audiobook is an amazing way to experience The Song of Achilles while feeling fully immersed in the world.

Agreed

People don’t care about your sexuality

Didn't he say he was straight in other videos

@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl and then in this video he said "recently realized" As in he's come out recently. Since those videos.

@@lucaleone4331 where

@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl what do you mean where? Like where did he come out as bi? I don't follow him that closely but I saw something on Twitter a couple months ago.

@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl he didn't make a big deal of it.

Circe is so good. Like WOW so good.

I second reading Circe! I couldn't put it down, and the prose was beautiful.

After TSOA i was ready to read any book Madeline Miller wrote, and when I heard about Circe I waited so patiently to get my hands on it 🥰 Was not disappointed, just exceptional writing.

Seriously the narration in the audio book was soooooo goodd

@@MeghanmarinePrior It's probably my favorite narration so far! It's absolutely incredible.

I’ve noticed tik tok either pushes really good or really not so good book recommendations lol

Zero middle ground lol

@@claritzaaboy5287 exactly. Like no offense, but I hated we were liars and that book was hyped to hell on BookTok

It's YA, isn't it?🤔

@@ChristmasLore I'd say so

"Something, something something, put me in coach." ... This is why I'm not a writer...

@@MKTraxel 😂🤣

@@MKTraxel 😂🥲

Combating bi erasure ftw!

@@andrew20146 didn't he say he was straight in other videos

@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl He did. Being bi is confusing and people tend to realize it later in life.

Also just to be crystal clear I'm not saying there were no gay/bi people in the Ancient World, nor am I contesting the "Greeks were cool with gay couples" narrative out of homophobia or anything (I'm bisexual myself). Humans have always participated in homosexual behaviour and it is perfectly natural in our species (and a lot of other animal species I might add), *but* it's also a fact that human sexuality has very often been rigidly codified in a lot of societies, especially hierarchical/patriarchal ones where gender was (or still is, as the case may be) extremely prescriptive and centred around reproductive heteronormativity and the transmission of private property. And the Mycenean-descended Ancient Greeks were definitely patriarchal/hierarchical, in different ways and to varying degrees according to the city-state/sub-culture. So no, homosexuality as it is conceptualized today (as a sexual orientation and identity both) was not _accepted_ in Ancient Greece (or at least the Ancient Greece we know of through archeological records). It was probably not persecuted/hunted down like it was during later periods of History (especially under the influence of the Judeo-Christian tradition in Europe) either, sure. But at best, only certain (male) homosexual *practices* were tolerated or accepted within rigid social parameters (like pederasty, or military units for example). As far as we know and understand today in any case. It's tempting to find justifications for progressive values today in the distant past, but it's a risky endeavour. The misconceptions surrounding sexuality in the Ancient Greco-Roman world have been used to justify/defend both gay rights and pedophilic practices in the 1970s, so... maybe let's not? Let's study the (distant) past because it is enriching, and interesting, and leave it (mostly) at that. That being said, why not re-imagine Achilles and Patrocles as full-on gay lovers (whether they were ever meant to be understood that way is largely irrelevant, and the question will never be conclusively answered in any case). It's fiction after all, so why not play around with it. 😉

@@ThePurpleBookWyrm thanks for your take.

Yeah that was strange to me, after all Patrokles "big thing" in the Iliad is that he convinces the Myrmidons that Achilles is leading them. Why would they buy it with this version?

@@jaspervanheycop9722 yeah, exactly. He was always a great fighter, just no match for Hektor because Hektor was almost as good as Achilles.

I agree fully; I felt like Achilles was definitely turned into Patroclus's "savior" or "defender" or something like that. And while Patroclus disguised himself as Achilles, he killed...like, multiple people, including Hector's charioteer. Near the end of the war, too, when all the surviving warriors were at least decently skilled, enough so to survive after 10 years. As for Silence of the Girls, I really liked how they didn't sugarcoat Achilles -- like, at ALL -- but I did think that it could've been more realistic; there are a lot of anachronisms/modernisms which felt jarringly out of place. I think the two books are very nice counterparts to each other and allow to see and appreciate two extremely different perspectives, which is really important for an influential work such as the Iliad. Another book I really enjoyed reading, if you're up for recommendations, is A Thousand Ships by Natalie Haynes, which is told from different women's perspectives. It's really amazingly written and actually feels like different people narrating instead of the same author impersonating each character. :)

@@sphjnx Hundred percent agree with all you've said! And I love A Thousand Ships! I wrote a comparative essay on it and Song for my MA. Such a good book.

@@hcstubbs3290 yeah no hector was nowhere as good as achilles like that's something that's overstated achilles us on a whole different level Memnon was nearly as good as achilles I'm talking about close he actually made him bleed like that's the difference between them

I mean, I think if Achilles and Patroclus were gay, Homer would have explicitly stated it.

@@TheRedHaze3 considering it is one of the earliest written text in Western Europe (over 3000 years old) and the Homeric question of “Homer - who and how many?” I don’t think so. Nuances have been lost and as usual with Greek myths there are always different variations of the same myth. I think there is a good chance that they were lovers but as I said the discussion itself is so ancient that I can’t add anything to it 😂 also I’m in no means in a position to take a reasonable position in this argument.

@@TheRedHaze3 Beyond the fact that they have a daughter together, neither does Homeros for Agamemnon and his wife, or more importantly, for Menelaus and Helena. But these relationships are somehow never questioned while they have much less evidence in the Iliad than Achilles and Patrokles... I wonder why 😉?

@@jaspervanheycop9722 Probably because they have a relationship where sex and romantic love is expected. They're married (or going to be). I don't understand how two people raising a girl together is more evidence that they're having sex than two people *getting married.* Sex between two adult men was taboo in ancient Greece, because it was seen as reducing the passive participant to the level of a woman, and it was supposed to be incredibly shameful. Given that fact, I find it hard to believe that Homer intended Achilles and Patroclus to be read as gay lovers, especially with how neither is clearly the 'top'.

@@TheRedHaze3 Marriage in Ancient Greece wasn't for love, it was a business transaction. It was there to strenghten alliances and there was the not insubstantial incentive of the huge dowry. The only one married for love in the Iliad (and more the Odyssee, but people tend to blur the two together anyway) is Odysseus and his Penelope, and he's the exception. Agamemnon was literally murdered by his wife after he murdered their daughter (truly a happy marriage...) and well... Menelaos unfaithfull wife is the reason the whole debacle starts... There wasn't a taboo against same-sex relationships, many authors (including both Plato and Aristoteles) are open about it. What WAS taboo was being seen as too into sex, with either gender. A man too much into women was seen as effete too. What was also frowned upon was not performing the marriage duties, making babies, of you did that they basically didn't care who else you slept around with.

I read Robert Fagles translation of The Odyssey at Uni and currently own his translation of The Iliad also. I remember enjoying the flow of the prose with Fagles. Would you recommend Emily Wilson over Fagles? Thanks 🙏

@@DhampirParadox I mean it really depends on the reason you're reading them. In the US Fagles is the standard academic translation, while E.V Rieu remains the counterpart in the UK. The older translations are quite stilted, but they do tend to be more accurate. When translators adapt Homer they have to be prepared to sacrifice accuracy of translation for beauty of prose. Emily Wilson imo currently maintains a good balance between the two. Very much looking forward to her translation of the Iliad, which I think will be regarded as one of the finest translations of the epic since the 19th century

The Silence of the Girls is a much better, and more realistic, female focused take on the breadth of the Illiad. It's also a better companion to The Song of Achilles as his relationship with Patroclus is at least an adjacent focus. A Thousand Ships was scattered, with awful dialogue and laughable characterization, especially of the gods. The scene describing the inciting incident that led to the war was so juvenile and out of character that I nearly threw the book.