This is the clearest explanation I've ever watched on KZfaq

I'm studying swedish through Duolingo and I've noticed that sometimes the "SJ" sound changed, but I didn't know why. Excellent video! Going to part 2!

Hi! I’m a native Swedish speaker and I find these types of videos really interesting! It’s super cool to see things pointed out that I’ve never thought of before. For anyone who wants a little challenge for this sound here is a tongue twister: “Sju sjösjuka sjömen sköttes av sju sköna sjuksköterskor på det sjunkande skeppet Shanghai” (translation: Seven sea sick sailors were treated by seven beautiful nurses on the sinking ship Shanghai)

I mix these two sounds depending on the word. I never use just one of the sounds exclusively. “Sju” and “Skina” are always pronounced differently from “Duscha” and “Garage”. I find this to be the norm in Stockholm. The exclusive use of either sound seems to be more common on the west coast and in the north.

Why does Swedish have to be an easy yet also complicated language?! 😍 Always puzzles me why some people pronounce sju as "chú" and some as "shú". But I am beginning to understand it better. Lovely language and country though, just as all Scandinavian countries, very interesting. Tack så mycket!

This video series is incredibly well put together. I'm finally starting to understand the difference between phonemic and phonetic. Thank you very much!

Thank you so much ! I just started learning Swedish and I was really struggling to understand that sound ! My textbook described it (no kidding) as "the french CH but with a Brussel sprout in your mouth". It wasn't exactly an helpful description, and whenever someone would pronounce it out loud, I would hear it as a weird ʁ rather than anything vaguely resembling a ʃ sound. Now I can not only FINALLY pronounce it, I also understand why it was so confusing. My textbook was basically (badly) describing the front SJ sound, while the people I heard were using the back version. And to me it sounded like a weird ʁ, because it is basically articulated in the same place. Just unvoiced (so χ), and less intense / raspy.

THANK YOU! I'm currently learning Swedish from Duolingo (quarantine lol, yay 2020) and this sound is one of the things that are driving me crazy.

Now we know, why you were gone for so long. I am very glad that you made new videos - they are really appreciated.

This is a wonderful, thorough resource, I'm so glad students have this kind of stuff available! Tack så mycket!

These videos are amazing, so unbelievably in-depth. Thanks you so much

Your methods do really really help, U R amazing! Thanks a lot!

Per-fekt!! Jag behövde precis den här video att förklara för mina vänner som lär sig Svenska hur det här hänger ihop. Jag kunde aldrig förklara detta så bra som du!

I'm currently learning Swedish and your videos are very helpful :)

I've been waiting ages for a new video from you - awesome!

This is a great and informative video, even though I'm not really sure why I'm watching it since I already know Swedish... Anyways, I'm from Västerbotten which is in the north of Sweden. Generally I would say that my accent isn't that thick, and a lot of people think that I come from around the Stockholm region (which is generally considered to be where standard Swedish is spoken). There is however one dead giveaway: I only ever use the front sj-sound. I never thought about it before but I think it's actually very typical for people living in northern Sweden to do so. Interesting :)

Wow, excellent. I initially thought you had missed the Scanian way of pronouncing it because I didn't recognize it in your initial categorisation into 2 main types, but then you covered, and nicely explained and demonstrated, the variations right at the end. Saving this video as a favorite, to help people pronounce my name... :)

This is so informative and very intricate indeed!! Loving it :-)

I would like to point out that I believe the rougher sound you described as /x/, a velar fricative, is actually /χ/, a uvular fricative, as you pronounced it. There is confusion about this as the other commenter +Maire Ci touched on. This is probably why /χ/ felt too far back in the throat compared to /ɧ/, because it actually is farther back in the throat, at the uvula, not the velum. The uvula is where that sort of trilling raspiness can come from, whereas it is impossible to make that gargling trill sound farther forward in the velar position, where /k/, /x/ and /ɧ/ are formed. In Spanish, for example, both the sounds /x/ and /χ/ are possible pronunciations of the letter j, with /χ/ (uvular) used in Peninsular Spanish (in Spain) and /x/ (velar) used in some other regions, such as Mexican Spanish. The Mexican pronunciation of j is a velar fricative, which is very soft, not rough like a uvular fricative, yet it is still quite distinct from /ɧ/. Here is a short youtube clip, demonstrating the pronunciation of the voiceless velar fricative /x/ as it is found in a word in Mexican Spanish, kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eZqAl5thrb_de5c.html . I'm sure you can hear that it is very distinct from the Swedish sj sound, but it is not rougher than it. To me, true /x/ sounds even smother than the sj sound. So there must be more to the Swedish sound than just a softer velar fricative. I am a Swedish learner, and I am able to produce the /ɧ/ sound to the satisfaction of native speakers, but I don't know exactly what I do to make the sound, although I know it is not just a softer /x/. I agree with you that /ɧ/ is not a /x/ and a /ʃ/ pronounced simultaneously, but it is more complicated than just a velar fricative. To me it seems almost like a sibilant velar fricative, because it does seem to involve air hitting my lower teeth, but it is possible I'm pronouncing it wrong. I guess you can look into that if you want. There's clearly a lot of variation in it's pronunciation, as you got into, but no matter how you look at it, it is a very unique and peculiar sound. Thank you so much for these videos. I think your careful explanations of pronunciation and your use of IPA are really cool and useful, and are some of the best resources. Also, did you learn English as a second language? Because any accent is hardly detectable. Thanks again, and I hope you can take this into consideration

Love how the video begins with a very Swedish pronounciation of "first" at 0:11. This is what I'm trying to get used to - to pronounce "s" nearly as /sh/ after "r" - especially tricky not to forget this after the previous word ends with "-r".

This clears so much up...

I may be weird, but the back sj sound is easier and more pleasant. This video is very informative, thank you!

Jesus! Swedish is complicated when you put it like this! Very cool though. But I now speak rinkebysvenska leeeen! Thanks a lot mannen!

I an actually from Sweden and Swedish is my native language so it’s kind cool when people make videos about my native language! :)

finally! a helpful video about the confusing pronounciation! ty!

you seriously are the best, I struggled so much with this and now it all dawned on me, it makes so much sense! Lovely video and explanation, you sure know your stuff! Have a good day sir!

Thank you for this helpful video. Swedish is my second mother tung and I am still struggling with this sound.

awesomely detailed

I was going to add this video to my 'watch later' playlist but accidentally got into it! thank you

Astonishing,. What a master class!

But you hit the questions I had about what I had observed. Great.

Very helpful, Tack!

I should note that in some languages the classic velar fricative is pronounced with quite less friction than you do. For example, in Russian, it's quite "weak", quite similar to how you do the Swedish sje-sound. On the other hand, in Mandarin or Mongolian it is very "strong". Or the Korean aspirated /kʰ/ which really is /kx/ after back vowels. So it does vary a lot. I also noticed that second learners of those languages with /x/ tend to excessively over-articulate it, while in fast speech produced by natives everything gets neutralised, as you know.

I read that Swedish is a living evidence of how sh-sound can turn into kh-sound, just like what happened in Spanish centuries ago, which explains why Xavier came to be pronounced as "khabier" in Modern Spanish although it originally was pronounced as "shavier", which is still the case in Catalan and Portuguese. Another example is the Pashto language, which is pronounced as "Pashto" in the western dialects, but as "Pakhto" in the central and eastern dialects.

amazing video.

Tack så mycket!

I find that I use the front sj-sound when it's root-final, as in garage and duscha, while I use the f-like one when it's is root-initial.

Your swedish lessons are amazing. Thanks to you, i finally manage to spell SJ sound in both variants! Tack så mycket :)

I use the back sj-sound [ɧ] for everything. I'm from south-eastern Sweden (Kalmar, Småland). I have never found myself using the front [ʂ]-sound, but everyone else is in Stockholm.

I have never heard of apical x laminal! Gotta study a little more :-) Many thanks for your reply, and thanks for the video, it's great

This is soo wonderful! Arigatōō! I had seen nothing like this video. The most infamous pulmonic sound ever heard of. I was glad I wouldn't have to learn it, but after half of this video I got the feeling that I can pronounce it. Welsh Ll was nothing compared to /ɧ/, I thought. And now you taught me within 6 minutes. I'm amazed! Gotta watch the following parts, too, of course.

i want to marry this video its so amazing, thank you so much, i've been using the frontal one all this time just because i wasnt sure how to get the back one right

The thing is that there is no "one" way of pronouncing these sounds in Sweden. It is very dialectal. For example where I'm from we pronounce "sju" and "skina" with the second (voiceless velar fricative), very similar to the russian "x" (or "h", "kh"). Also there are at least three "sj"-sounds, excluding "tj" in my dialect alone. That aside, this is a good video, and you would be understood pretty much anywhere following the examples therein.

Could you please explain when/where/by whom the variant /ɧfw/ is used? Thank you so much! And thanks for your great videos:)

Aah so cool to hear the second sj sound. Its sounds like an soft dutch g. Idk how to translate it.

Could you, please, talk about the retroflexes [ɖ ɭ ɳ ʂ ʈ] ? Tack så mycket!

I really appreciate your videos since SFI is not so thorough

Nice video!

Damn, I was way overthinking this. It’s funny, I got it completely right before I read up on it more, but then when I learned more I overthought it and started to mispronounce it. Tack så mycket!

So, it seems that the back sound is just a /x/ with less friction, pronounced more fortis (resulting in audible aspiration) in order to make up for that lesser friction. Plus optional labial articulation. Sounds doable.

I pronounce some words like 'sju' and 'skina' with the second sj sound instead of the first, and find it pretty funny when people to the opposite bc mostly old people do it. So i'd say it depends on where you're from (i'm from Västmanland, Västerås to be specific).

I always tried to pronounce it at sh and ch simultaneously and got confused when I actually heard the sound, because it sounds so different. Thanks for explaining :)

Do you suppose that the English - gh like in "laugh" got its "f" pronunciation in a process similar to the final "sj" you described?

Hej! Thank you for your lesson! I have a question : Do you round your lips when you pronounce /ɧ/? Because at 6:08, 'skina' sounds like /ɧʷi:na/ to me.

I found harder to understand the first sj sound. Does it sound like the retroflex sh in mandarin? And the tj seems to sound like the mandarin x, as well. The second sj sound seems to be placed between "ich" and "buch", if we "split" the palate in three places.Thanks!

5:41 hallelujah! I LOVE THIS METHOD!

Thanks so much for this very methodical video! I'm a native mandarin speaker and I think our "h" is almost exactly the same as the back "sj", it's not the German Buch or the Spanish Javier (in Spain). In the Chinese word for "hao" h gives a clear passage of air, without any friction whatsoever, which gives me the impression of being almost the same as the back "sj". Just a personal observation. I'm no linguist, just a language buff :-)

What font did you use in the examples in this video?

I am a Scanian and im interested in linguistics and i've solved which soundi make in the ipa /ɸ͡xˠ/ or something like that

I'm Swedish, why am I watching this

i lost a bet and now have to say “sju sjuka sjuksköterskor är ute på en sjö i ett skepp” and post it publicly for all my swedish irl and online friends to see and judge me for so this will rlly help thanks

I just realised I use a front SJ sound for some words and the back one for others.

I think it depends on dialects. In Northland you would pronounce with the tip of the tongue and if you are from the south you would usually pronounce with the back of the tongue. At least me.

ive learnt how to whistle after this

I was taught to pronounce "sju" using the back sj sound. Is that correct?

i cant believe it i actually did it lmao. thank you man

i pronounce sju and skina with the back sj sound i have only heard finnish ppl pronounce it with the first way as they only use the first way

Förlåt asså men jag kan knappt säga t.ex "sju" med slutet av tungan. Men eftersom du är experten så frågar jag: Är det för jag har vuxit upp i Göteborg, är det för min pappas släkt är i Norrland, eller är det för min mammas släkt är från Halland och Småland?

In Finland we pronounce sj like sh and kj like tsh/ch, or at least that's how it's taught at school

When is back and front sj-sound pronounced?

/ʃx/ when I say this it sounds so cool

turns out my velars have been the 'Swedish variation' for a while. So are Xidnaf's

Nowadays you sometimes hear people pronouncing it with /x/, mostly first and second generation immigratnts in immigrant dense suburbs, and even by the few swedish youth living in the same areas. "ja ska va där klokan khoo" "min mamma är khook-khöterska"

The funny thing is that sj is pronounced exactly as Slavic ch (like in Polish or RUssian for exmple). No it's not the same sound as in German or Dutch. It's rather the type 1

I think my pronunciation of the *sj* sound is pretty spot on, but sometimes when I'm pronouncing it I create a whistling sound, what my Swedish friend noticed. Any way to completely eliminate this?

As a Russian native speaker, we pronounce x like in Swedish, definitely not raspy like in German or Scottish. And I know it because I'm also a native speaker of Hebrew, and in Hebrew it is raspy like in German.

I expected some train sounds (SJ=Statens Järnvägar, The State Railways)

Tror jag aldrig hört nån säga skina, bara strålar eller (sol)sken

ehm..jag uttalar Sju och skina med det andra Sj-ljudet haha

Why is the k in swedish sometimes "k" and sometimes "sh" (kottebolle).

SJ goes choo choo

Wow the back Sj sound is literally a velar sibilant, which many linguists thought was an impossible sound to make.

Jag uttalar 'sju' med det andra sj-ljudet haha. Samma sak med 'skina' :P

So the back sj is more like in Irish lough than Scots loch got it

Isnt /ɧ/ just /x/?

I love you

For me as a german the sj sound is pretty easy to do

Front sj sounds actually same as polish "sz", while back one just like our "h". I wish we had such easy way to learn vowels

Is as a /xʷ/ or /xʍ/.

I cant figure out how do do /x/.. XD

I say Sju with the back sound but my mom say it with the front sound

I thought the raspy velear fricative is actually uvular.

/x/ but softer

The “voiceless velar fricative” - what you were pronouncing, although a little on the labial side - is in fact /x/, not /ɧ/. The consonant /ɧ/ is still definitely the coarticulation /ʃ͡x/. The “normal velar fricative” you were pronouncing is actually what’s called a voiceless uvular fricative: /χ/.

The IPA be like "ʃ͡x"

2:51 Hur kan du få Skina att uttalas Kina ? Innan du försöker lära ut något så lär dig rätt själv först !

im supposed to be sleeping, what im i doing here..

Skina is so hard to pronounce!

It's like an angry cat

I not even know how to pronounce my last name 🙃