"Can a robot be human?" I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.

Friendly reminder that this game is from the same people who did Serious Sam (Croteam)

I remember playing this game, and being amazed that nobody, has barely spoken about the experience.

Croteam: *Makes a game that deeply explores the philosophy of what defines being a human* Also Croteam: AaAaaAaAaaAAaA yourself!

I'm writing this comment before watching the video. I played The Talos Principle this September, I just knew it was a good puzzle game and I bought it without knowing almost anything about it. It was probably one of the best video experiences I've ever lived. The story, the philosophy behind it... Everything just blew my mind. It bothers me that it didn't get the recognition it deserves.

This is one of my favourite games ever, period. I loved every minute of it. It's rare to find a game that can give you so many emotions and food for thought. Such an underrated masterpiece, thanks for making a video about it.

"Intelligence is more than just problem-solving. Intelligencce is questioning the assumptions you're presented with. Intelligence is the ability to question existing thought-constructs. If we don't make that part of the simulation, all we'll create is a really effective slave" damn

As you grow, all your cells get replaced. Can you call yourself the same person?

I remember when Alexandra was speaking about intelligence and how important it was to create an actual self thinking machine instead of a slave. That part hit different than most lines she says.

The Talos Principle is amazing. Really loved the story; particularly the recorded voice of the scientist. It was really shocking to hear how the story developed. The music is also ... divine. Got 63 hours in it including road to gehenna. Definitely worth a buy if you like puzzle games. Probably even if you don't.

*'If a human has a new hand or part of a brain then are they still human?'* This question reminds me of an old sketch from a British sitcom, Only Fools and Horses, where a somewhat dim roadsweeper is telling his mates that he's had the same broom for twenty years. "I've had this very same broom for twenty years. [...] It's had seventeen new heads and fourteen new handles." "How can it be the same bloody broom then?" kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gqeYa6uj3rzFlY0.html (~2 minutes)

How dare you use the cat-less ending.

These “is a robot of equal value to a human” questions are more visceral when talking about jobs, and how humans currently need jobs to survive.

It got high praise in the indie scene when it came out and people still talk about it highly, so I wouldn't call it the most underrated one when you have titles such as Blade Runner, that recently came to GOG btw. It's the best puzzle game since Portal and I'm really glad Croteam has so many fans over the world.

Good analysis. The Talos Principle is likewise amongst my favourite games (my profile pic is inspired by the qr codes in the game). Ayways, I'd like to add some more depth to this analysis. Firstly, the Principle of Talos. Talos referenced here is the Talos of Greek mythology. In the myths, Talos was a conscious metal giant, living in the island of Crete. He had liquid metal flowing through his veins, sustaining the life with a nail that kept the blood in the body. In one of the myths, a witch deceives Talos into believing that if he were to remove the nail, he'd become immortal. Talos removes the nail, releasing the blood - he perishes. The Talos Principle says that you cannot live without your blood. Simple, but significant. It doesn't matter what your beliefs regarding after-life are - this material life right here is fragile. It is bound to materiality, to death. It is therefore precious. Elohim denies this. In one of the secret areas in the game Elohim is stuck in a loop, saying how 'the flood would not come' or that 'The Talos Principle did not apply'. The flood here refers to the real actual world: the research facility that runs the simulation is at a working hydroplant. But infrastructure is not eternal, especially one not maintained by humans. Although Elohim is self-aware and is conscious of where he is, he nevertheless denies this reality. He lives in the delusion that the hydroplant will work forever, that the simulation will run forever. That He as God will live forever. However, the Talos Principle does apply. Secondly, I disagree that the game is atheistic. It recognises that belief in God is in a way necessary, in the way that it was necessary for our collective society. Perhaps still is necessary today, too. In the simulation, obeying Elohim is the staring point. Early itterations of the Child program could only obey Elohim, and that's exactly how the simulation grew and developed. Almost every high-end, smart, even the *conscious* Child programs chose to obey Elohim, and the player can do that too. The game does not portray religious beliefs as somehow irrational, or wrong. They are required, to an extent. This extent, however, has limitations. If people are to grow, they must stop clinging to God, or to eternal life. They have to kill God. This does not necessarily mean turning to atheism, or science. Scientism is but another extreme and the contrary to free-thinking. Milton, a rebellion to God, is not the answer either. Milton's nihilism can be exposed, and the program can be sent to an infinite loop. Here, the game is going against its Genesis inspiration, because the Biblical snake was the reason behind Man's fall. The Milton snake, on the other hand, can be dealt with and eradicated. The game therefore creates a middle way between God and Devil. A religion of no religion. Free thinking, not dogmatic compulsion, to which both Elohim and Milton fall. Interesting, the game is vocal about the Old Testament symbolism. In a way, it connects us with the deep roots of the Western Civilisation. But the game features deep, mystical symbolism of Eastern religions as well, Buddhism prominently. One of the more obvious examples is the cycles of the simulation. It's similar to Samsara, the cycle of rebirths. At the top of the Tower, the player meets two other androids. One is called Samsara, and the other is Shepherd. Samsara is a classic misinterpretation of Buddhism: she (pronoun here is arbitrary) attempts to stop the player from fully ascending the Tower. From the qr codes, it's evident that Samsara became deluded. She saw the cycle of rebirths as never ending suffering. The answer, she says, is not to be invested in the Process. In other words, become detached to the world because it's meaningless anyway; don't look for answers because it's only pain and no meaning. But her struggle to prevent anyone's ascend is the opposite - she *is* invested, she *is* attached. She tries to prevent the player because our goal to ascend the tower goes directly against her view of no attachement - except that Samsara falls into the trap of becoming attached to the idea of no attachments. Beware of this trap, if anyone reading this wishes to practice Buddhism or something along those lines. The Shepherd (don't confuse him with the Biblical notion of the word) is a representative of what is known in Buddhism as Bodhisattva. A Bodhisattva is someone who helps others attain Enlightment, or Awakening. Interestingly, Shepherd's qr codes are rather non-dualistic, saying how we are the process and the process is we. I did not expect a game that talks at length about the Western idea of God to also so subtly touch upon Non-Duality. Anyways the Shepherd sacrifices himself (again, pronoun is arbitrary here; these are androids) so that the player ascends the tower and ends the simulation. In the words of the Shepherd "when we awaken, all will be one". In the Road to Gehhena DLC, Uriel likewise sacrifices himself so that the other androids can be saved and join the player in the main game. So, I find it reasonable to assume that when the player wakes up in the real world, it's not just the player's android's consciousness that lies in the android. It's also all the pieces of consciousness, now one. In a way, the simulation is about transcending the māyā - the play, the illusion - and getting in the real world. So yeah, I find the game to be quite genius. It mixes so many ideas, so many things into one unity. And it's all coherent, it all makes sense in the game. Brilliant storytelling. Croteam is going to make a sequel, and make no mistake, it'll be a challenge to top this game. Although, they could adress one issue I find: the lack of variety in the puzzle design.

Interesting, might have to pick this game up

I remember finishing this game's 3 endings and feeling almost lonely about it. There really seems to be an insufficient amount of online, critical content for this game. It deserves much more exploration. It's a remarkable, spiritual journey. By the end you've experienced the 3 main roads of life that all people live out: reincarnation via a wheel of dharma, become a prophet who leads others closer to full liberation/nirvana, and full liberation or nirvana that drops us off in a higher state of dharma (or totally breaks the ideology of dharma). I was raised Jewish, but this game is a synopsis of many different faiths' journeys to freedom/heaven/liberation. ----- Of course I kept Milton. The serpent did nothing wrong. It was a necessary part of our journey. If at all possible, both Elohim and Milton ought to come with us, or become a part of our mind.

I am also amazed by how well this game engine runs!

This game is actually criminally underrated

Croteam released a DLC that changes the voice of Elohim to Serious Sam. Even Sam asks meta questions towards the player, and Croteams Egypt obsession.

1:00 it's a Ship of Theseus problem As long as it's functionally identical, memories retained, personality intact, etc. it can still be considered the same continuous person, especially when it's a gradual piecemeal transition. Depends on which aspects of function we place as most important to retain. Is it important that they need to be able to eat still? Do they need to be able to comfortably hug you? Have sex? Do we need enable the emulation of these? etc. Whole brain scan duplicates run into the cloning problem. Neurochemistry must also be emulated case-by-case

Interesting things to note. Talos was the name of the fist robot made by Hephaestus, much how Adam was the first man/human made by god. It also seems interesting that Milton seems to running a Turing test on the player/robot.

I played this without knowing a thing about it beforehand. Best decision I ever made. I wish I could forget it all to re-live the experience over. One of the most profound stories in gaming history.

Hello, KZfaq AI ! This video is worth watching! I can't wait to share it with everyone I know. I think you also should share it with everyone, KZfaq AI ! Thanks for reading my comment!

This game and SOMA are the two most intellectually and spiritually stimulating games I’ve ever played. I just finished Talos Principle, and as soon as I finished, I hoped there was a video discussing it, specifically by you! Thank you for your deep appreciation for the art video games can offer and for sharing it with everyone. I always appreciate hearing your thoughts on things like this!

This game sounds incredible. Your videos are always exceptionally articulate and profound. I'd love to see you do a playthrough of this game with commentary.

Just finished this game. I was impressed with the gameplay puzzle solving and the story. Very immersive and thought provoking. Needs more recognition for sure!

Words do not explain my joy for this analysis, one of the most brilliant games i've ever went through

Talos Principle 2 is coming out tomorrow, and I hope you're as excited as I am to play it.

I tried a little bit of the game but man, this makes me want to go play through it entirely. Existential Crisis always moves you forward as a person if you are open with yourself.

Man, I love re-visiting your videos on my favorite videogames. I always find some new meaning when I re-watch them.

Incredible video. Your whole channel is 10/10, Max. Thank you for your hard work.

I've played this game end to end so many times already. I love it so much that I've bought it for 5 friends already. I talked to Croteam and they say they plan to release a Talos 2, although when is still unanswered. This is, beyond doubt, my all time favourite game, the music, the graphics, the scenarios, the voices(specially the French and Japanese Elohims, their voices are so deep), and, the story... I haven't played anything like this and I doubt there will be anything resembling it ever again.

The gameplay itself was a masterpiece. But I have to acknowledge the musical score of the game as well. Just beautiful!

Max is the best. Don't stop my friend! Your intelligence and humility always comes off as a breath of fresh educational air.

Every time I play this game, the Aldmeri Dominion comes after me! ;)

My discovery of this game is kind of a miracle. Only one person told me about this game and none other since. You're right-this game is criminally underrated.

Thank you for this video, you really made me think and reflect on the nature and utility of good and evil.

Max I’ve been waiting for this since yesterday! Thanks for doing what you do man!

I've been saving this video in my Watch Later list for such a long time. Now that I finished this incredible and profound journey that is the Talos Principle, I finally was able to watch. What a wonderful essay! I completely agree that this game might be the most underrated vide game of all time, given its deep philosophies on what it means to be conscious. I find it so few people talk about the deeper layers. Very well done and said, one of my favorite videos. Thanks!

I've only discovered your channel a few weeks ago. Because of Silent Hill. But when I saw that you did a video on The Talos Principle I couldn't click fast enough. So far one of my all time fav games. I'm almost afraid of playing the second part once it gets published. But the fact that second parts can also lead to something like Silent Hill 2 gives me hope.

As a philosophy, world religions, psychology, and neuroscience enthusiast, few of these ideas were new to me; however, I have NEVER seen a game tackle several of these ideas, at once! Brilliant!

Another one of my favorite games of all time. I love your channel! =)

My top 5 games of all time were consistent from around 2006-2018. Then I played this, and I think it edged its way in. It's not just the story, or the puzzles, as you've mentioned. It's the beautiful locations (which you can draw symbolism from as well), the music (The Dance of Eternity is an especially amazing track), and the sheer number of easter eggs which are humorous and satisfying to uncover. Thanks for giving this game some of the attention that it deserves. I agree that it's very under rated.

I love this game so much. One of my all time favorites.

Just finished it. One of the most thought provoking game I have ever played! Bummer that some puzzles were frustratingly hard. They're stretched out for too long. The last few levels I was so tired of them I didn't even bother trying to solve them

Fantastic analysis! I just finished the game today, and stumbled upon this video. So impressed that I subbed. Truly, this is one of the most underrated games I have ever played.

looked up and you DO have a video on TTP! I am very happy to have found it

Your videos on this game convinced me to play it and I am so glad. I completely agree that it has to be one of the most underrated games. Quite a lot of data for the mind to absorb. Enlightening even for one like myself who questions existence regularly. If I found it a transformative experience, others surely should, if they are honest and open to questioning their beliefs. Thank you for the recommendations and excellent videos as always!

A robot is only human when it has more than awareness, an inner life like we have, more than emotion, that god-shaped hole we have, our relationship with the unknown, our nakedness and knowledge of death, in Heidegger’s terms: We are beings whose being is going to end and that scares us. Otherwise it’s only a machine. The true distinction of man is not awareness, it’s having burial sacraments that prove a profound metaphysical conception. No matter how smart a gorilla is, that is the true distinction.

I am beyond happy I found this channel!

Great discussion piece! Not sure how I missed this game!

I agree that this is easily the most underrated game of the generation. It helped me through a difficult time in my life. Thanks for the video.

The goal of leaving Eden is to gain and hopefully maximize freedom, and to do this, one must be capable of doubt. Lucifer is a hero for leading others to question the delusional bliss they were fed and use that to escape God's zoo. (That's literally what Eden is; a human zoo) Lucifer's tragedy, however, is that he conflated maximizing freedom with maximizing doubt, and in turn became a slave to doubt, a state which is intensely painful rather than intensely blissful.

I'm super excited to hear what your take on the sequel will be!

What?! I can't believe you're talking about the Talos Principle! Somehow you seem to discuss every game that I love. Thank you so much!

Played it and have not completed it yet. Amazing piece of gaming, really. Lots to take in and the whole experience is unreal.

The game's storyline and gameplay are both masterful. Both elements could stand alone beautifully but combined together it makes for such a memorable experience. Best first person puzzle game ever?

This game and your channel are terribly underrated. My God I love your channel.

Man, another excellent video game review. Really glad I subbed to you Max Derrant. You put out some really quality and interesting content.

"Can a robot be human" Bicentennial Man

My favourite puzzle game, for some reason I could try and fail again and again with no anger or frustation in TTP & Road to Gehenna, while in say The Witness and Portal 2 I find myself irritated when I fail to figure out the solution, might be Damjan Mravunac's excellent composition and the overall ambience that soothes and appeals to me greatly.

So glad I found this channel

It is really disappointing that hardly anyone talks about this fantastic game. This is the best video I've seen on the subject. Thank you!

As a person of faith, I tend to look at the universe as a puzzle we're MEANT to figure out. To this end, I've never felt threatened by science, instead regarding it as a tool in my exploration of life, the universe and everything. Just one man's opinion.

I have a feeling the reason it's underrated is because the puzzles are convoluted af. Most of my friends stopped playing the game after a few hours because they got stuck and didn't think it'd be worth their time to watch a guide. Even I had a hard time, and I absolutely _love_ games like this. I have to admit, some of the puzzles did get pretty pretentious, especially while in Gehenna.

This is a great video. Job well done Max. Really enjoyed. There is no true fellowship without free will.

Wow. Keep up the good work Max!

8:53 that's what makes Megaman X such a cool character, he gets down when he needs to but he's not above questioning himself

Non other games than the ending of FNV: Lonesome Road dlc and... The Talos Principle story have made me cry The last audio from Alexandra and leaving the simulation while typing literally in the void "Is someone there?" when I have supressed milton, and seeing the real world, damn, that was something. It s great to be human

This is bringing back so much right now. I could literally listen to The Sigils of Our Name for hours 😭

Respect man ! This is an amazing hard work !

I love the Talos Principle, hardly ever has a Game made me try to be a Completionist and see the several Endings. I love its philosophical Leanings, though it never felt "atheistic" to me, quite the Contrary: The Moment "Elohim" presented himself to me as "I am Elohim!", I laughed and thought "Oh sure, I bet you are...", and I could not trust that Voice, but for good Reason, as it turned out (in a Text found below icy Area before the Tower, I think), the Voice was just an A.I. trying to mimick the highest Authority it could find in Literature to play the greatest Dungeon Master... it is not a Critique of God, it is a Critique of a Creature playing God. And Milton was no Help either, because Milton kept nagging me with Multiple Choice Questions to which the possible Options were so black and white that later on in the Game, I just couldn't bother with it anymore, Milton truly became a Devil -- trying to cut the World and its People "right in two" (I just had to reference Tool there). In the End, it was more about me and my Journey -- me, as a virtual Adam, an artificial Human, and my Journey of Rebellion against all the Artificiality the available Authorities were stuck in. Quite fascinating. Thank you for this Video, it is very good and thoughtful. :)

"The Talos Principle is probably the most underrated game of all time." That's philosophy for you.

Amazing great video thank you for breaking this down would love some more analysis of the conversations with Milton it feels like there is so many paths there.

I love this game so much, I cannot ever stop recommending it. It is truly impossible to walk away from the Talos Principle with your thoughts still the same and intact. It absolutely changes the way you are thinking and it gives you such a refreshing and inspiring perspective on the world. Thanks for making this essay, I hope it brings more people to this series - now that TP2 has come out and it's just as wonderful as the first game :)

Lately I started expecting much more out of game narratives, so jumped on and beat SOMA, Silent Hill 2 (for the first time mind you) and Edith Finch and the games blew me away with their stories and certain questions posed, same with a recent fairly underrated gem that is Disco Elysium. I knew about Talos Principle being a good puzzle game and I kept hearing people recommend it from time to time but I wasn't sold, I didn't know that the story and it's principles was it's main draw, thank you for this video, stopped a bit over 5 minutes in and will try to experience it on my own, hopefully the puzzles aren't insane like Witness was.

Yes more underrated gems please

Love these analysis videos

This game is so underrated, with the second game out i loved it even more

1 minute in and I remembered Orianna's lore from league of legends

can a machine be human: NO can a machine be more than human: YES

Accidentally clicked on this while watching the Jacobs Ladder video and I'm glad I did. I think I understand a few things better than before thanks to this.

Fantastic video and really great explanation!

This game is better than Portal imo.

This game and titanfall 2 were criminally underrated

Just finished playing it and, not only it made me enjoy puzzle games for the first time, but right now is on my personal top 5 Thanks a lot for sharing this, dude

damn this was a great vid props!

It feels like some complicated concept yet it feels lile the answer is simple. In my answer. No a robot. A 100% made robot is no a human. Consciousness in computer. Also no. Its a program. The difference between the program and the people is emotion and such. There's also the act of change. See a human can change base on feelings. A computer doesn't. It will always change based on data or programming. Theres conflict in this topic because of the VALUE we give to consciousness. Its a big deal because consciousness is human its more us. Its freedom. Yet a computer doesn't have those concepts. To put it simple. Humans are. Computers act. Humans believe and such while a computer would just act in many ways

My question is why does something have to be unique in order to have genuine love or favor from its creator? Regardless if a AI can be human or not why should that take away from something that in itself is a monumental achievement. If human life is a great thing a equal experience or example of it can only help enrich the experiences overall that life could therefore experience and even in ways it couldn’t do before.

And another video revealing another concealed thought. Good job

Bruh. I bought this game a year ago but haven't played it....until now! Max, you never cease to amaze me :)

If I could think before I acted, why did I watch myself lock my own keys in my car?

I'm going to start this comment with this: I have no interest in the phylosophical question behind "can a robot be human", because the answer is almost always yes. The human capacity for empathy is as vast as it's capacity for hatred. People grow so attached to their roombas that they name them and treat them as pets. So even if machines ultimately can't be human-like, humanity will attribute humanity to them if they come close enough to human behavior. Instead i'm going to focus on the mechanical side of this question. The short answer is: yes they can. The long answer is, yes they can, with an algorithm advanced enough that may allow the machine to understand the concept of context and enough processing power, they could become humanlike in just a few short decades... the problem however would be storage, which does take a lot of space and energy, so that is the setback. It is not if they can or not, it is that there is not enough physical space to realistically allow them to.

I think that was an outstanding analysis of the Talos Principle. I just finished the game and I am still in a state of what the absolute hell just happened.

Great review

@0:08 No. Only homosapien sapiens's(probably messed that up) can be "human" cause only we have this form and named it so. But can a robot be sentient? Yes. Not yet but yes. A complex enough algorith could be made so that the machine runing it would, by all objective measures, be as capable and aware of its existence as we are. @1:03 I should have kept watching. Sorry about that. My answer is still no though. What you describe is, to me, a cyborg. But the line is hair thin at the extent you describe. And at that point I would decide on a case by case basis like I would with humans. It would be like this identity politics thing we have going on in the US. If asked, I will honor an individual's wish to be called whatever the want. Also, I'm answering as I watch. The flow of answers and my train of thought will be all over the place.

I would like to point out that the serpent in the garden being the devil is a Christian idea. In Judaism, he is just a serpent

7:38 hex code translates to "To see a World in a Grain of Sand Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand"

No sé por qué no hay prácticamente ningún resumen ni review en español de este juego, pero no puedo explicarte lo mucho que agradezco que tengas los subtítulos activados para este vídeo porque Talos Principle fue uno de esos juegos que recuerdo aún hoy en día como algo muy importante para mí, y quería disfrutar del 2 pero necesitaba refrescar la memoria. Gracias.