FAX THIS IS THE BIGGEST TARGEDY UGHGHGHGHGHGHGHG

This comment made me double check that I was subscribed

That explains their childlike exuberance and dancing... That's sad.

Nah, jarbern or whatever his name is fits diallos inside of him and he’s a small jar.

@tuba3000 yes but he isn't the same type of jar from the shadow realm. The shadow realm jars were used for alive people flayed and put into jars to be melded with numen flesh. The Erdtree jars instead act as transport for already dead bodies to be taken to minor erdtrees and broken so the erdtree avatar may put the bodies on the roots. No torture involved and alot less morbid albeit slightly. So it may be that erdtree pots didn't have specific age groups put inside they just shoved whatever could fit. Which makes sense since most of them are going though battlefields consuming dead soldiers.

It was a big moment fr

For me it was that exact moment - we need to wipe every single last one of those horned demons ... we are not the same.

@@titanscerw u r just doing the same thing then dumbo

@@MadLuigi nope

@@titanscerw 🤣

And the seduction could be the hornsent's obsession with divinity.

I like this idea

new head canon honestly

Being a saint is following God or being a very good or pure person pretty much a creature or human that's in Order Natural No Evil no Wrongness or wicked mind set pretty much. So i guess she was bless and her peoples was not as they were pretty whicked and doing Evil stuff all the time and so she turn on them and well it's got no better.

Yall looking too much into it. My fav single mom Marika the eternal was a strumpet. 😂

That's a great comparison; the other side of the coin to the jar stuffing: golem stuffing

@@MadLuigi Imagine if Orochi was there from WO2 they would ohh my

Marika is a cold b

Kind of similar to what the Omenkillers do to the Omen. At least the mask part

Holy shit...

I've been thinking this too. They represent the alchemical Rebis, or divine hermaphrodite found in a lot of alchemy texts. That's been made clear by the story. Maybe they weren't always fused and that happened when they finally got together. Also, the ability to fuse flesh sounds a lot like what happens with the grafted, doesn't it?

Yeah because i said how did they have kids if that was the case.

@antigrav6004 Grafting is unholy and usually forced upon someone, whereas the melding seems almost medical in the way its positively received and perceived. I think they're both similar fundamentally, but in my personal opinion I don't think they have any real connection to one another

Perhaps they were both shamans? It would explain how they are able to switch bodies so easily.

Yeah. I went into the Shadow Realm expecting to hate Marika’s apparent religious crusade and her seemingly smug, superior son. Once her motives and origin became clear, I was enraged at the supposed “victims.” I still despise Marika, but she wouldn’t have existed were it not for the degeneracy of the Hornsent civilization. And, unlike her, they have no apparent Freudian excuse. They’re just evil and devoid of all self-awareness.

I much prefer this version of the "corruption" of Marika. I find it much more compelling than some overly literal magical corruption. I feel the same way about Miquella's mind control as well, a very boring way of exploring Miquella's influence in my opinion. With the Haligtree it seemed like those who followed Miquella did so out of sincere reverence, whether well founded or not. Overall I find the DLC lore all over the place...

After understanding Marikas lore i felt for it , i believe that its justified to burn the world where such cruelty exists, unfortunately such cruelty exists in real world too

Miko's also the in the word used for finger maidens: yubimiko.

Copium for people who REALLY HATE Marika.

lol there is even an infirmary in messmer castle where they are trying to reverse what was done to the shamans.

That completely destroys the story.

What i want to know is whey they were all killed? Why would the hornsent eliminate all of them if they are valuable for thier pot ritual? I wonder if they did it soon after marika became a god as retribution. Which then made marika even angrier.

grown adult with an anime pfp? ofc they argue with randoms on reddit cringe

Crazy...That's the beauty of duality, The one who tortured is now the one getting tortured. Him not realizing what the shamans must have felt to him understanding how cruel they actually were. Him and all the other hornsent must have really realized how wrong and cruel they were. Maybye thats why the greater will chose marika? so that she could be the one to enlighten them.

​@@Samples12 and in return realize what she becomes, she became the hornsent just in another form

@@theenderdestruction2362 did she tho? I mean she did exile any creature reminicent of the hornseng and or crucible and she did cut of the horns of baby omens. But was really as cruel as the ways of the hornsent? But i get what u mean. Perhaps both the hornsent and marika were destined to fail so that we the tarnished could bring about a new age.

@@Samples12 Baby Omens horns were cut off. Imagine forcing a parent to do that for your own traumas' sake and then making anyone who has grace and is under your order hate and despise anyone not apart of it or has grace something you control, imagine making it so only the elites omen children can live but in the sewers below, imagine using countless people just to make your own, what the hornsent did was horrible, horrible indeed, but what marika did was just as bad in another flavor, and dont forget the rune of death was removed meaning those hornsent corpses we find on fire golums are most likely still alive and in extreame amount of pain and their bodies are so burnt they cant speak, marika didnt just become the hornsent she fucking one uped em in cruelty, and not to mention she left her own son alone to be the most viled and hated thing in the lands of shadow and earsed it all from history, the tarnished were supposedly summon back by marika but i feel like the tarnished of no renown might have been summoned by the greater will itself, perhaps even though its been long sense gone then our tarnished was a last resort a sorta nuclear option sense in lore either the tarnishef no difffed malakith or worse he tanked destined death either way the tarnished of no renown almost seems like the nuclear option that and we mabye a demi god cause from memory somewhere miazaky said we wernt a human i could be entire wrong and spreading false information but yeah... seriously though, marika just basically one upped the hornsent by doing even more heinous shit cause, like i said, the hornsent were horrible, horrible beings but marika did everyone dirty cause imagine having to habe your child more then likely killed cause of a curse placed upon them and if they survive their in agonizing pain and you indoctrinated those same parents into hating their own child at that point trauma response means jack shit and you should be crucifed

​@@Samples12Even besides the crusade itself and damning half the continent including her own devoted son to the Realm of Shadows Marika also sent Godfrey on a brutal conquest involving the genocide of the Fire Giants, the mass incarceration and enslavement of Omen and Misbegotten, a violent expansion into sovereign territories like Liurnia and Limgrave, the upending of established societies like those of The Storm Lord and the Ancient Dragons; so yeah, she's at least as bad as the Hornsent.

Yeah I think thats a good way of putting it. Marika did horrible things, but I can still have sympathy for what she went through

"Take care that when fighting monsters, one does not become a monster. For when you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares also into you."

@@ravendelacour1917 Yes their is no Excuse

Why is Marika a monster?

​@@jamaledwards8118 Genocide of Hornsent people, albinaurics, fire Giants, mechants and other people

cringe weirdo godfrey wasnt from there.... are u brainded

I know almost nothing about 40k but cool to see the similarities!

Such a cool idea that's sadly no longer canon

It's mentioned that the crucible knights weren't initially villified when they served Godfrey but came to be hated. Also the leadership of the Black Knights use crucible incantations, despite being in conflict with a largely crucible-based culture. The black keep also is protected by a Golden Hippo that uses the crucible too. There was definitely a deal of time between Marika becoming a god and creating the land of shadow and when she ordered the crusade, supported by several pieces of evidence. I think Marika creating the land of shadow to seal off the hornsent and as a place to suppress death was probably negatively seen by the hornsent but not enough for them to fully hate Marika. As the Erdtree's age of plenty ended and the Erdtree became a religious object and golden order fundamentalism started to form under Radagon, people began to hate the crucible in the Lands Between, and probably the bigger threats to the Golden Order like the Ancient Dragons, Fire Giants, and probably the Nox and Godskins were defeated by that point, so it would have been easy to rile up the Erdtree faithful on such a brutal crusade on the civilization of their forebears compared to earlier, which was probably seen as a huge betrayal by the hornsent. And it was after the crusade that Marika sealed entry to the Lands of Shadow and cut Messmer and his followers loose.

Also explay why after Radagon came from Liurnia to be with Marika, the three stopped spreading seeds and started to feed under the struggle

I definitely read it as a cautionary tale that provides more motivation to kill miquella. Both of them went through a lot of injustice and hardship and want to make new worlds as gods to address those problems. It is inevitable, however, that ascending to godhood will corrupt/trap the god in question. Would miquella go to the same genocidal ends to enforce his age of compassion? Probably.

I guarantee you that there were Hornsent who were unaware or even against their more grotesque and cruel practices such as the Greater Potentate who made the cookbooks to craft pot stuffed with things other than living beings after being disturbed by the practices in the village.

But they didn't work to stop the process. Probably because it was engrained in their culture. For all we know jars were used as labor saving devices and the primary pro-jar argument was, "But what about the economy?"

It would’ve likely never happened if the hornsent didn’t do what they did though.

It's a video game. Never get that twisted!

I think the entirety of Marika's reign was a power struggle for her God hood against the elden beast and then Radagon which is a battle she eventually lost.

Personally, what makes sense to me is that she made a pact with the Two Fingers by her village to unite her Gold with Order, and used the Divine Gate to summon the Elden Beast and reform the Elden Ring. There is a curious qualification in the Elden Stars description that says: "the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would *later become* the Elden Ring." It seems to me that the Elden Beast may not have actually been involved in the Elden Ring of the Ancient Dragons, and that Marika ascended to Godhood around the time the Dragons had a similar "shattering" war, where Bayle revolted against Placidusax. The Fingers made an appeal to Marika to reform the Elden Ring, and they used the Divine Gate of the Hornsent to summon the Elden Beast, who became the Elden Ring of which Marika is the vessel. This makes sense to me as the Fingers would be motivated to renew contact with the Greater Will, from whom they had been severed, and Marika would be motivated to free her people from oppression and rule over a Golden Age of Life.

She still remains a mass-murderer, but at least a cute one now 😂

Don't forget about the Formless Serpents, one of the more obscure groups in Elden Ring, that are probably related to the people that once lived in Gelmir. You find a few serpent arrows in Belurat in the poisoned lake with Man-Flies.

@@dominicmarazita8103 Interesting. I am so used to playing vers 1.00 that I had never readthe flavor text of the Serpent Bow and its mention of Formless Serpents.

@@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962 Some snails also drop serpent arrows, which implies a connection, possibly that that arrows are made from the snail's fangs. Snails, who are also obviously serpentine, are fairly mysterious. The fact that some are capable of summoning spirit ashes is odd in of itself.

@@dominicmarazita8103 I agree. Snails are also crepuscular creatures, often coming out at Twilight, or the Gloaming. From could have made them more snail-like, similar to the magma slugs, but intentionally chose snakes as the motif. The Spiritcaller snails can summon a Crucible knight, Godskins, and Okina's apprentice, all of which deal with the Crucible or the Formless Mother (who I think represents the Crucible). The Crucible Current is like two Snakes mating in a spiral.

@@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962 You forgot about the snails in the Haligtree branches that summon crystalians.

Thanks so much!

This might be why the greater will chose her if it did at all, it saw what would become of her and knew one way or another she would do this so it did it immediately and with the most punishment as a result, countless children cursed, one wasnt and died in soul, betrayal after betrayal after betrayal all lead to her crucifixion ironic no?

There will be no second expansion and they don't want to make an elden ring two so many people keep talking about it like it's confirmed it is gonna happen when the exact opposite is true and why I was so frustrated by how the dlc ended. They said it would be clear when you beat the dlc but it sure as hell wasn't. Consider a cutscene from the trailers is not present in game some major things were likely scrapped late into development

Miyazaki stated that there’s no further plans for future Elden Ring DLC. Hopefully, that changes.

I thought that was Rykard snake

lets not lol

Clam down Mr genocider

And the shaman in the greatjar is different from the shrine maiden

This would also explain Marika's severe hatred of it

The Hornsent inquisitors were the ones who invaded Midra’s manse, slaughtered his servants and impaled him with the Greatsword of Damnation, inflicting constant and eternal agony.

@edmarcamy thats true, but some extrapolation as to where Marika separated from them, and what knowledge he and his wife found/ their connection to the shaman village so far has been lacking analysis here on youtube.

but he will fight with you again in the enir ilim, he still has one purpose that's helping Miquelle godhood ascendence

@@boyuan588 And he will fail in that too. He will die knowing he failed in everything he did

Enia refers to Godrick as a relation to Marika: "Godrick the Grafted was but a distant relation... The runt of the litter, his divine blood sorely diluted. " So, less connected than direct children, but we can definitely view him as part of the golden lineage of Marika+Godfrey

@@MadLuigi I see

Messmer was certainly crusading after Marika's godhood. He is referred to as like an elder brother to Radahn, so he lived in Lands Between for a while before the crusade

@@MadLuigi Ahh interesting. Any speculation as to how Marika convinced her oppressors to let her become a god? And I wonder how Marika was okay with transcending to a god while standing on the bodies of her own people, while allied with the Hornsent

U can still be sympathetic to the genocided Hornsent. One genocide does not justify another

@@MadLuigi it doesn’t justify another, that’s true, but if the hornsent hadn’t done theirs, then marika would’ve likely never done hers

I definitely think that this seems to be the most logical thing to have occurred, though I wish there was some better references to point to such a figure existing. Only thing I can think of that might be a reference to this hornsent lord would be the Grandnam in Belurat mentions her son as the other person who would go with you to kill Messmer as the divine beast

I wonder, is the divine waygate how all pervious gods became gods?

​@@codybibb5732Since it used to be placed in the middle of all the Divine Towers, that would make sense

Messmer did so much wrong 😭

Hornsent disagree

He did so much wrong. But hey, who says that being wrong is bad?

An eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. The world turns blind and starves to death. May chaos take the world.

Messmer did bad things to bad people.

🙏

I really like this theory, that is what also came to my mind when reading the description of the Minor Erdtree in the Shaman village - that she planted it there it out of guilt and as a small act of redemption.