Funny haha

their very hairy now too

Those are the most stupid and witless of them all

​@@ChrisSmith-5655 The ones that even Sauron will not tolerate

You're right I'm an olog-hai

Thanks Samuel, took a lot of digging! :)

i think exactly the same, counterparts of ents. And ologs are corrupted version of them

@@itespablade1688 nah ologs are an enhancemant of trolls, due to them becoming more human and sunlight resistant.

I always thought of trolls as neutral creatures. Kind of like warg's. They're dangerous because their predators, but not inherently evil. They became more evil after being captured by the forces of Sauron or Morgoth and starved, beaten, or otherwise made into weapons. Similar to a dog used for fighting, the dog isn't bad, its just a product of its environment. Thats why I kind of like in the first lord of the rings film when the cave troll is dying, as its crying out in pain on the verge of collapse, there's almost of moment of sympathy for an ignorant creature that really didn't know any better.

Brilliant. I am in support of this thought. Thanks for the insight.

Yeah Troll’s are pretty innocent at heart, they’re only really evil per say when they were enslaved by Sauron

I know :( I feel the same about it!

There's a good Troll in Tales of the Perilous Realms as well as Troll that just steals corpse from a cemetery much to the chagrin to the Hobbits.

That's Paarthanux's quote

It’s not out of place in elder scrolls. The orcs there aren’t evil . Trolls are wild. That quote is out of place in Tolkien’s world

@@abemartinez9623 The trolls were intelligent enough to work as a team to run a battering ram, they may be tribal but they are not wild

True that

haha, i doubt they were, it's just amusing since it concerns the recorded history and there's very little to begin with, so it's kind of true at the same time 😂

Theirs is more of a savage animal cunning. Tom, Bert and Bill spoke the Westron (common tongue) and could even count.

No No the Olog-Hai are definitely smarter. I just meant it as a joke, since there's so little recorded history on Trolls.

*angry Bruz noises*

The Dwarves didn't have life after Aule made them. They were sort of puppets that would become inanimate unless he focused on them. They only gained true life once Iluvatar gave them a soul :)

I was thinking this the whole video. Can it be that trolls are corrupted dwarves just as orcs are corrupted elves?

Interesting theory but I would doubt this very much. Tolkien goes out of his way to say that the Dwarves were not made of stone originally and that this was merely a rumor about them because dwarves were so secretive when it came to their private lives which included their women and reproductive practices.

I've always assumed or in my own mind accepted they were some sort of Dwarven ancestor as well. I'm no tolkien scholar by any means but for the same reasons .. Stone is such a Dwarven staple and direct connection. It would seem fitting they were related somehow.

Illuvatar opened his mind more to Melkor than to Aule. It may be possible it was enough to allow magics strong enough to pass to offspring.

Do you think Trolls originally were relatives of the stone giants seen in Hobbit? Don't worry about your voice it sounds just fine :), could we see a vid on The Black Gate? Would be cool to hear about the history behind it and how it was used by Sauron.

sound/voice good for me - understood you without any issues

Can you explain argons sword and what it’s history is

Thanks for uploading this video because I'm new to the Lord of the rings universe and this is helping me to get to know Tolkien's World.

It's really hard to say, because the movie's depiction makes them seem like literal stone giants, when they could have simply been larger people. So it's a connection I'd avoid since it would have a weak foundation to build upon, though it's certainly possible :). And yeah sure, I'll add the black gate to my list of future topics :)

Boromir’s eye roll and tone of voice-I can hear it in my head-“They have a cave troll!”

Yeah I was actually thinking about that soon :). I find it quite sad that there can't be a neutral or good Troll, it just seems like they've been corrupted beyond redemption :(

@@GeekZoneMT Really?! That is awesome! But yeah, it is quite a shame that the Trolls were just corrupted to the point when none can be redeemed and be good :(. But then again, Morgoth's power is very potent, and his taint on Arda cannot be understated, so it would make the most sense (sadly).

I read the LoTR and hobbit at an early stage in my life but i remember already reading other fantasy and not being content with the creatures and descriptions...Tolkien's struck me as the best and most natural. Pure brilliance.

@@nuclearjanitors I couldn't agree more! :)

Luke Skywalker the 2nd you find every single thing to ”honestly be one of your most favorite creatures/artifacts/races/events/areas/in the legendarium” or what ever the subject is. You have practically written the same comment to every single video GeekZone has ever uploaded, and counting. I don’t mean to offend, it’s just something that has always caught my eye and even annoyed me a little, not sure why. Sorry to be direct!

They must have been stretched quite a bit though ;)

Think about the family reunion dinners. "Now we have someone to reach the top shelves!"

@@GeekZoneMT Well never feed a Dwarve a feast at night lol.

@Sauron Merciful Tolkein said that orcs(also called goblins, snaga, and uruk-hai) reproduce in the manner of men. I believe it was in Unfinished Tales.

@@GeekZoneMT LMAOOO

Cheers buddy, did you enjoy this one? :)

Possibly, though I find it weird how sun-resistant Trolls weren't mentioned before the Third Age if Morgoth had created some,; especially since Aragorn implies that any one with a bit of knowledge on Trolls would know they couldn't survive in sunlight (making it seem like a universal statement)

Erm there is a chapter called Uruk-Hai in the book. Never heard of Olog-hai.

Indeed!

Tesla was an overrated con man, Tolkien made a great fantasy world.

EarnedMyResp3ct con man... you mean like a man who writes fake tales for money 😂😂😂 who is the real con artist

@@Doors067 embarrassingly stupid response

They both saw the same light, just had their own way of spreading it

I think it's unlikely to be honest, as by primitive I imagined that it might be referring to humans such as the Pukel-Men. :)

@@GeekZoneMT the Pukel-Men makes sense - they too have a connection to the mountains.

Beorn was a Were Bear.

I think the original trolls were created by Melkor as golems, but it's possible that Sauron later bred his own trolls from orcs, as Saruman had done by crossing orcs with humans to create the Uruk-Hai. We know that Sauron bred some orcs for specialized roles, such as the smaller ones that served as scouts.

Same thing I thought at first but then I thought is morgoth corrupted beorns race then you would think the result would be more dangerous and deadly than a troll. Possibly still able to shapeshift into evil monstrous beasts.

I used to play Lotro, forgot about that! Do you remember in which area this was explored? I'm curious! :)

@@GeekZoneMT It had to be around the time pvp was first implemented and there the creep side player could use 'points' to run as a troll (as the free peoples side could have a ranger). Well I recall many conversations about how trolls came into being and it was fascinating!

Maybe it's the gift of foresight ;)

@@GeekZoneMT Haha maybe im half elf :D

Wow, thanks Frances, I appreciate it buddy! If you've got any questions, feel free to reach out to many any time :) Have you watched any of my other videos? Cause there are quite a few topics which I could recommend that I think you'd be interested in!

@@GeekZoneMT I stumbled on to you a few weeks ago and have drove my husband crazy because I only want to read the books or watch the vids. When we get home Tuesday, I will have WIFY so can just watch ALL your vids. Any questions I have, I will definately send to you. Thank you, again.

Oh that's awesome :) Please do!

hmm by Mountain Giants do you mean the giants mentioned in the hobbit?

@@GeekZoneMT Indeed, the book itself depicts them a bit different from the movie though.

You know what that's what I was thinking... Ever since I was a kid I figured that they were just creatures that existed naturally, that were corrupted at some point. The trolls in The Hobbit are extremely different then the other trolls we see. Maybe those are the original species and the evil quote on quote ones we see are corrupted from them

GeekZone I noticed that it seems like there is a distinction between the Rock Giants from the Hobbit movie and the Mountain Giants shown in the Battle for Middle Earth series. The later often seem to still have rocky/scaly skin that often mirrors the rocky areas where they slumber, but still appear organic, instead of some walking statue or boulder.

Thanks buddy! I appreciate the support :)

Thanks CW, comments like these make it more than worth it ;)

You're welcome Andrew! Yeah the human origin is interesting, though I'm really fascinated with how Morgoth animated the mountains, it's such a mystery!

@@GeekZoneMT BTW, I was wondering after your video (see how they provoke thought!) whether there is any connection to the troll and the giants that Bilbo and company encountered in the Hobbit. I know there is talk that they may just be Middle-Earth folklore for severe weather but it did make me think. Maybe you or one of the other channel fans can give their opinion.

I'll be making a videos on Giants shortly, will discuss this for sure :)

It's possible they had multiple origins like orcs had. The Silmarillion describes demonic spirits as orcs, and L.O.T.R. and Unfinished Tales suggests they originated from corrupted humans. Realistically though, Tolkien was just trying to tell a good story regardless of whether it fitted previously published work or not. Which it never did, but that seemed to amuse and inspire him.

Thanks Tristan, I'll be covering the new series for sure! :)

You're welcome Nathan :)

He said giant, not troll.

Thanks mate. hope you enjoyed it!

An extinct race of Men, maybe to the far East... I was thinking Beorn's people, since he's about 9 feet tall and if he was "corrupted" he could be as big as a Troll.

Skyrim troll are a bit smaller and less smart tho

@@CBDMB a well placed strike to a frost trolls chest or neck stops them... they are also roughly the size of a man. Edit: my point is Tolkien's trolls had size snd strength on skyrim trolls.

God help you all if fought a Warhammer troll.

Hell no . Tolkien’s trolls have always scared me ! They are massive wield weapons! I also thought the idea of going to battle with them would be terrifying!!! If you fought a wild troll in Skyrim they are fierce but beatable!

Cheers buddy, glad you like them!

You're welcome Brian!

Thanks mate! Yeah I was actually considering making a short video on Sting :)

@@GeekZoneMT Please do.

Thanks man, I'm curious what you double checked now. I think all those theories are possible especially since we have similar examples from other creatures in Middle-Earth, though considering how ambiguous it all is I prefer just going through the information Tolkien provides :)

It's a only a very brief mention of trolls and their origin, but wasn't sure if there was more to it, than I had in mind. Seeing your video confirmed what I remembered, so my memory isn't that terrible at time :D

Cheers!

I feel like Tolkien just came up with the evil races so that Morgoth and Sauron would have an army, and didn’t expect people to give them too much thought

@@ieatmice751 I agree; but after the fact he decided that there needed to be an explanation for where they came from since he went to such effort to explain where everybody (and every other sentient creature) came from. He just couldn't come up with anything that made logical sense within his own framework.

In my head-canon, I would like to imagine that there are three separate methods available for Morgoth to create more orcs, which reflect the multiple ideas Tolkien apparently had: 1.) Elves that were seduced by Morgoth’s power and willingly corrupted by it, similarly to how Sméagol was transformed by the One Ring into Gollum, albeit more gradually. 2.) Recently slain elves and/or men, whose bodies were altered into corrupt shapes and inhabited by the damned souls of others, similarly to how the Night Creatures in Netflix’s Castlevania show are created. This would be my way of referencing how Tolkien considered having orcs be embodied evil spirits, plus the movie scenes where Saruman seemingly “manufactures” some of his Uruk-hai. 3.) Once orcs are created using either of the first two methods, they would then have the ability to naturally breed among themselves, creating entirely new people who are born as orcs. This is how I would account for characters like Bolg, who is implied to literally be Azog’s son.

@@markcobuzzi826 Tolkien himself discounted the first idea; which was one of his own early ideas; that the orcs were made from corrupted and twisted elves. He decided that elves were impossible to corrupt just as the dwarves were. So he had to re-write his history to bring Men into the story earlier than he'd intended to explain how they had been corrupted to create the orcs. Tolkien's first idea was that Morgoth created the Orcs by shaping them from earth and animating them; but then he realized that he'd already written that only Eru Iluvatar (his creator god) could create life. Then he came up with the idea that they were created from warped animals (if I remember right) but then he decided that Morgoth didn't have the ability to give sentience to them. So then he came up with the idea that they were corrupted elves; but he "realized" that elves couldn't be corrupted; so finally he came up with the idea of corrupted Men. My personal suspicion is a hybrid of the animal and Men ideas; that he got the idea of "alloying" men and animals from Sauron who was essentially the second most knowledgeable being concerning craftsmanship and working with metals and gems and stones. Sauron was intended originally to serve Aule - the master craftsman of the Vala but Morgoth corrupted him to his own side. The alloys would have a certain amount of sentience from their Man heritage and a certain amount of animal savagery from their beast heritage; and a variability based on what sorts of animal contributed to the latter. This would also explain where his werewolves came from that were used to chase Beren and Luthien after they'd stolen a silmaril from his crown. Note: the other sentient creatures (not created by Morgoth) of Middle Earth including the dwarves, ents, the rohirrim's sentient horses, the great eagles, etc, were invented by the Vala who entered Middle Earth to fight Morgoth but given life by Eru at their request.

@@WickedPrince3D Obviously, my knowledge of Middle-earth's nitty gritty details is far more limited, as indicated by your more expansive and in-depth reply. But I do have another idea to posit, similar to the one you brought up. I know it is established that Trolls were, at the very least, made in mockery of the Ents, assuming they are not corrupted Ents themselves. But if Tolkien were to confirm them as corrupted Ents, I thought of a hypothetical idea, which could also incorporate a previous idea Trolls being animated stone. As far as I know, the only time trees can become stone is through fossilization or "petrification". So another head-canon I toyed with was an idea, that the original Trolls were created from Morgoth trying to reanimate and corrupt long deceased Ents, which had since become "petrified wood". Because those specific Trolls were not fully alive and needed that magic to biologically function, the sun could make that spell wear off and turn them back into stone. I would like to imagine that the Olog-hai were, in turn, either crafted with a more resilient version of that spell or a result of Morgoth using superior methods (like Frankenstein building a construct from dead scraps, versus InGen cloning dinosaur DNA from fossils, so it can be grown into its own individual living creature).

Cheers Arcen!

@@GeekZoneMT 🍻

Oh yeah, I tried to capture some footage from that game actually, had to scrap the idea due to time constraints :(

A trully underestimated, underlooked creature in Middle Earth!

Just corrupted wolves. Not even worth the effort.

Probably descendents from the same evil litters that birthed Carcharoth, the great evil wolf that ate the hand of Beren and the Silmaril

Thanks Bolwing!

You're welcome Alex!

Cheers buddy!

Jawooohl, herr Generaaal

Thanks mate, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

would you consider doing one on the "middle earth shadow of mordor" game its really an interesting game with alot of insight on the inner workings of saurons army and what the orcs do when not charging in wars. just a suggestion though

I was considering reviewing it to be honest :)

Thanks Dave!

Cheers! I felt it though 😂

you too!! you came through like a champ!

Thanks Jack!

No problem

It's already out lol

Thanks man!

Yes they're from the Lord of the Rings Online :) One of the clips used was from Shadow of War though