Thanks Anna! You all have a collection for the ages. It's been too long. I hope our paths cross in 2024 🙂

Hi Bruce Wayne. Thanks for commenting. I'm a Swagglehaus fan. He's a good writer and presenter, and often takes interesting angles on topics. I don't always agree with him, but typically enjoy his material. I do agree with you that golden age and rarity are two areas that are misunderstood in the hobby and on KZfaq!

Hi, Omega! Definitely agree about the PPR for the golden age! Has a golden age book recently redefined your collection? If so, please let me know.

Great advice, Hazeldan! And, always wonderful to hear from you two. Good point about rarity and the ages. Yeah, they are definitely different beasts. For example - as you mentioned - restoration plays a much larger role in valuable GA books than for any other era. I appreciate Swag bringing up the topic of rarity, though. It's not talked about enough. I hope we can have a broader conversation about the topic in the community. Something that my friend, Greg Holland, talks about is the distribution among rare books. For example, a rare golden age book, like your Pep 22, will typically have most of its copies in low to mid-grade. A Gobbledy Gook 1 -- perhaps equally rare -- will have most of its books in high grades. The point being is that the shape of the grade distribution is different for golden age books (and perhaps early silver-age books) relative to late silver forward. Annalove and her husband are the bomb. I've had the pleasure of hanging out with them on a few occasions :-).

That is awesome! We have never met Anna Love, but we have spent some time perusing her collection and drooling lol. We do think the rarity in comics is an interesting conversation, and the distribution in grades among the rare books seems like an excellent topic for a follow-up video 😁 ​@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842

@@hazeldan1216 ...good idea 🙂

Excellent point, and an unpopular corollary is that virtually no one cares about GA books other than geriatrics and dealers.

Hi, RPR! Thanks so much for this excellent comment. Sometimes books are so rare that no one knows about them. A buddy of mine -- who is world-class knowledgable about golden age books -- recently uncovered a book he had never seen or even heard mentioned. He showed it to Matt Nelson (from CGC) who had never seen the book either. But, like in your case, no one cares about the book because it's not part of the hobby's collective conscious. With no demand, it doesn't matter how rare the book is.

Except me and a few other middle-aged eccentrics :-)

Would you mind describing the comic, at least in broad terms -- genre, page count, whether it was a for-sale book with a price printed on the cover vs. a possible giveaway? My hunch -- and it's only a hunch -- is that there are at least a few dozen currently unknown comic books from the early '60s on back that were intended as giveaways or educational items, printed in small numbers and so uninteresting (to readers of the time) that almost every copy went into the trash.

@@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 *_You know what, I just remembered something, I bought a few HD's a decade ago, filled with scans of old comic books. I found many books there I had never seen before. I'm sure someone still sells these HD's on Ebay; as the books scanned are all in public domain._*

The Gerber scale was a good starting point based on info available at the time, but census counts have proved Gerber wrong on some counts.

@@Doc_Dooom yes, very true. The census has really helped us to get a more accurate picture of actual number of books.

Hi, CCG. Good convo between you and Doc Doom. I love the Gerber Scarcity Index. A Gerber 8 (rare) is between 11 and 20 in existence. The problem is that many Gerber 8s and 9s have 40 or more copies on CGC census (e.g., Suspense 3, Gerber 9, at 43) -- as you two acknowledge. One concern I have for using an extremely stringent rarity cutoff is that it makes sense for golden age but almost meaningless for later books. For example: Under 20 CGC copies is practically unheard of in any age after the golden age (excluding manufactured rarity or some strange printing error). Practically any valuable comic from 1945 or before (most have CGC counts below 200) is rare relative to silver-age and later books. Long answer. Perhaps we should have a conversation on the topic :-)

I would love to see that good brother!😎

The term -How rare is it ? is baked into, almost every language.

Hi Doc Doom! Thanks for the comment. I do appreciate Swagglehaus bringing up the topic of rarity. He was right that too much is being called rare. I just wish he was more nuanced in his discussion of it. Sounds like you are building a cool GA collection. What's the favorite GA book you own?

Hi Geoffrey, Many people are like a moth to a flame when they hear the word "rare"! :-)

@@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 my rarest comics are Prison Break #1 and Camera Comics #3 which both have pretty cool covers (15 on census each) but my favorite GA comics I have are probably CSS22, Phantom Lady 17, and Tec168 but those aren't that rare. Then i have lots of cool PCH that I like with census counts somewhere in between. For SA i guess my Brave & Bold #25 (1959 - 1st Suicide Squad) would be considered kind of rare with only 337 on census.

@@Doc_Dooom Thanks for sharing Doc. I hadn't seen that Camera Comics #3 before. That's a cool woman-protagonist book. Would go along well with WW7.

Hi Jonathan, Thanks for the comment! I'm a huge fan of the Gerber Photo-Journal Guides. I haven't made a video specifically on the scale, thought that's a good idea. The scale was such a good idea. In broad strokes, the scale is useful. Gerber 10s are still rarer today than Gerber 9s and so forth. The absolute numbers provided on the scale are off, and typically underestimate the prevalence of a book. I talk a bit about that underestimation issue in this video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qat7a9mEydmldo0.html

Hi SolveforX. Thanks for commenting. Certainly. Many folks call this "conditional rarity." For example, Hulk 1 isn't rare overall but it is rare at a 9.0 or higher. That's why many folks pay exponentially higher prices for high-grade silver-age books. For many modern books -- like a New Mutants 98 -- the book isn't even rare at a 9.8; 9.9s are very tough, however.

Thanks, Dan. I haven't been able to post in a while and I enjoy interacting with the community. Regarding Swag, I am a fan. And, as you suggest, thought the topic deserved further exploration. Have a nice holiday!

HI Sigma. Interesting about the Comic Scene IIRC. I'd love to read the article. I do know that the Mile High II collection that Chuck R acquired was a warehouse discovery. Hundreds (thousands?) of copies of individual issues. GSX 1 was one of them.

@@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 Ive no doubt that there are tons of ungraded books waiting to be discovered, to be clear. My point is that some proverbial speculators with huge numbers of keys is not borne out by experience or history or even common sense. Are there lunatics who horde certain issues? Sure - I do that myself and lots of us old collectors were doing that at least as early as Byrne Xmen and perhaps earlier. But I don't buy the bizarre story that someone knew ASM 129 was gonna be a key book and had the money and connections to buy pallets (or even long boxes) full of them. I certainly agree that any Marvel key from say 1980 on is by no rational definition of the word "rare."

Got it. Thanks for the explanation, Sig Ma.

Thank you, brother!

Thanks, Ben. Totally agree on the overuse of "rare" or references to CGC census numbers when inappropriate. I'd like to see a universal set of definitions for rare, scarce, etc in the community. One reason I chose 200 is because it is rare in almost every context except for golden age. Perhaps we should just say that the typical pre 1945 comic book is rare and work out from there? Using the Gerber guide's definition of rare (20 and under) excludes books like Marvel 1, Suspense 3, Adventure 40, Pep 22. It's just too strict. I'd love to pick your brain some more on the topic :-). It's funny. People on the Internet have been swinging around the word rare for ASM 300 newsstand copies and for books like FF 5...and I say 200 is rare and everybody is on me :-). And, I'm happy as a clam that people are talking seriously about rarity!

⁠combination of OSPG classification and Gerber used (esp for GA) we can roughly appoint < 50 = rare (Suspense 3) , ~50 -100 = scarce (Marvel 1), ~200-500 uncommon (Bat 1)

Thanks for taking the time, Alex! I'll need to catch up on yours too.

Definitely. Bat 1 is a great book but not rare. I also think that for expensive books that CGC counts is a better gauge of rarity than how man are on the market at a given time. We have both seen situations where a book hasn't appeared in five years and then, all of a sudden, three go up for sale in a two month span!

Five copies of Suspense 3 could flood the market and suddenly it would appear heavily available. Still rare overall but market availability vs. unavailability to acquire a copy is the separating factor.

Thanks Terry! Definitely. SS6 is a sweet book btw. Congrats on your 9.0 copy. Yeah, I'm a huge Xela fan. Any of the 37 issue is not hard to find....but if you're trying to get those books in 9.0 or better, it's a challenge. I've got 30 out of 37 and it's taken me nine years!

Thanks for sharing your experience, J.R. What versions of comic books are sold in the Philippines? Are they the U.S. editions or are there Filipino editions? I know CGC has recently been promoting comics from different countries. BTW: I hope you can find a Hulk 181 one day! I still consider it a cool book despite its prevalence in the U.S.

@@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 we have US editions but we used to have Filipino editions back in the 90s or older.

@@e36boy Awesome. Glad to learn something new.

Collecting in the platinum era has unique challenges. You can find comics that have not been discovered yet on occasion. Condition tends to go down with age. They just did not make the comic books with the intent to have them last so long. But, it could be worse. Victorian age books are so rare that it greatly impacts who collects them. Most have turned to dust over time. The oldest one I have is from 1856. It is so fragile, I have never taken it out of the sealed package that it was sent to me in. I am afraid it would fall apart in my hands if I opened it.

@@chadmagee4107 Thanks for the info, that's interesting. It would be cool to find a book that even other knowledgeable collectors of that era didn't know existed. I bet you have to keep a real close eye on temp and humidity control with Victorian books. Platinum too it sounds like.

Yes, you have to be extremely careful with them. Any mistake could reduce them to dust. They need to go in a safety deposit box under controlled conditions. Light (any type) is a major enemy to them.

Hi Waz. Great point and I feel your pain. On the KZfaq side, I get far fewer clicks on a video focusing on golden age. A buddy and I sometimes say "too rare to care." That said, keep chasing those Centaurs!: A truly noble pursuit.

Thanks Chad for sharing your stories. I haven't dived deeply into the platinum age books...but boy they are tough.

Hi, Josh. Great to hear from you! I'm not an expert on signatures. I've got some friends who love them but I typically do not go that route with the books I collect. To your point, in a sense, if a comic book has a unique set of signatures, it is a 1 of 1. So, technically it would be rare. For me, I like to think of rarity of the book regarding existing copies and signatures separately.

@@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 Cool. Thanks man

Thanks, James. Excellent comment. Well put, and I agree with your point. With little consensus, people use the word however they choose. Regarding Sotheby's, Overstreet, and Gerber; the concern I have is that their definitions of rare were partially based on the number of copies they believed to exist of very-hard-to-obtain books. Thirty years later, many of these books are more prevalent than originally believed. For example, Suspense 3 likely has 60 or 70 in existence (about 40 on CGC today). Gerber thought fewer than 10 existed. The problem with using 10 or 20 as a max for "rarity" is that almost no book of significance falls under that extremely low bar (obscure books like Double Action 2 and Green Giant 1 perhaps are the best examples). The even worse problem is that when people say no book is rare, many people interpret the statement as being all books are prevalent, which is not true. The prevalence of comics from the golden age to the silver age to bronze to modern often differ by orders of magnitude. I've got a interview with Gary Carter on the subject as well as another video on rarity coming out. Thanks again for the well-informed and thought-provoking comment.

Hi, Gerald. That's a good distinction. "How easy is it to find" meant something very different pre-Internet than it does today. For comic books, some of the very rarest books are still really tough. For example, a Double Action Comics #2 -- I've only seen it come up for sale 3 times in the past 12 years.

Hi, Joe! Thanks for commenting. Definitely. Many legitimately rare comic books are worth little because there is little demand. It's a combination of desirability, rarity, and condition that dictates price.

Thanks, Jesse! Always good to hear from you.

Shane! Good to hear from you, buddy. I hope life is going well for you. Yeah, I didn't find much wholly inaccurate about Swagglehaus' video except for the misleading title (and I appreciate him bringing up the topic). My issue is that he paints most of the comic books mentioned in the video with the same non-rarity brush. It's a topic that, in my opinion, requires nuance. You are definitely right about comic book availability. The vast majority of comics can be located for purchase with a few button clicks. If you can't find a book that is certainly some indication of rarity. For high-value books (over $500 for a 1.0), I think CGC census is about as good as it gets for estimating rarity. The gold standard would be to know exactly how many copies of a particular issue exist in the world. That's impossible to know for most books. The exception being some manufactured super-rare variant of a modern book where all the copies are slabbed or otherwise accounted for :-)

There has been great debate whether a Double Action Comics 1 exists. Double Action Comics 2 is a an all-time famous rare comic.

Hi, Brett. Quite a few folks have brought up Gerber. And, I'm a big fan of it too. One of the issues with the Guide is the books listed as a 7, 8, 9 or 10 back with the PhotoJournal was published would be knocked down a couple levels today because the books aren't as rare/scarce as people thought they were in 1990. That said, I do think that Gerbers -- for the most part -- got the proportional rarity correct. Today, the books Gerber listed as a 10 typically have lower CGC census numbers than those listed as a 9 and so forth. Also agree about your point re conditional rarity. Thanks for commenting!

Hi, Chad. I can see the appeal of being an autograph collector. Certainly, getting a golden-aged book with a signature is unusual. I have a Wonder Comics 20 with a Schomburg signature on the cover: he passed before CGC was established.

@@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 Wow, that is cool to have an autographed Schomburg. He was an amazing comic book artist, so that is a treasure you own. I have a Schomburg wall hanger: Startling Comics #33 from 1945. Sadly, it is not autographed (and is missing the centerfold with two loose inner wraps). The vivid colors on the cover really pop out at you.

Awesome. Thanks for sharing. Love when the colors pop.

Hi, Barry. Great to hear from you! Yeah, clickbait is certainly an issue. Unfortunately, KZfaq does not reward straight-forward images and titles. A fair share of my videos have bombastic thumbnails and titles too. I appreciate your comment because it reminds me not to go over the hyperbolic cliff!

HI Galaxy, Thanks for the comment. Yeah, she and her husband have a crazy collection. It's one of a kind :-). I appreciate hearing your take on rarity. I agree that Hulk 181 an AF 15 are not rare, overall. But, like you said, there's the issue of conditional rarity. Not too many AF 15s at a 9.4 or better. Market availability and rarity has a strong and interesting relationship. I'm thinking through the issue now and will be posting a video later this summer.

Hi, Nelson. I'd love a "rebut" video from Swag. I bet he'd have a cool take.

Hi Mazzter! As always, great to hear from you. Haha....good point about G.I. Joe too. Yeah, I remember it always being more expensive than G.I. Joe 1 b/c of its "rarity." Yeah, there aren't too many books that can't be found in a few minutes these days.

Thanks J R! I saw that video by James. Always love his stuff. Those modern books are legitimately rare. However, they are typically rare because they were manufactured to be rare or because of some strange error or recall. Golden age rarity is due to a number of factors but typically due to attrition. For example, almost 900,000 copies of Marvel 1 were printed. 70 show up on CGC census!

Hi Doc. Good question. I'm sure there are quite a few old raw collections that have gone under the radar. From my understanding it was the '80s and '90s that brought out most of the big golden age pedigrees but they are still bubbling up (like the Promise Collection).

Hi Brainaway. Good point. I like thinking of value as a function of desirability and rarity as well.

Hi Prankrec. Thanks for the comment. That's an interesting concept. I've heard of folks talk about "market rarity" before: relative to demand far too few books are available. In this sense an ASM 300 or Hulk 181 could be considered "market rare" at times. One concern I have about "market rarity" is that it is a fickle beast. A book may have a moment of rarity but then be common as dirt when tons of sellers unload their hoards on the market.

Thanks, Michael. I certainly thought a few points needed clarification/sharpening.

Appreciate the kind words, Cap!

Thank you, Derek. Always good to hear from you, my friend.

Hi, Nighttiger. I think it can be used as a proxy for high-priced books, especially proportionally. For example, Action 1, 'Tec 27, and Marvel 1 are in the same scarcity neighborhood and they are likely each 50 times rarer than Amazing Fantasy 15. It's not perfect but what's the better alternative?

@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 true, good point

@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 get too passionate on this subject 😆 it irritating when sellers use rare in a listing description. It tells you one of two things either they know absolutely nothing about their product or they're using snake oil salesmen tactics

I admit I get passionate about rarity too...I think for the same reason as you. The term too often is thrown around recklessly as a sales tactic. It bugs me. Thanks for the nice conversation.

Hi Kurt, Thanks for the comment. CGC census is helpful as a proxy for rarity when a book is valuable. I appreciate your thoughts about the rarity "threshold." Something that I find challenging is that golden age collectors tend to be very strict 20 or fewer or in your case 30 or fewer. Whereas, modern collectors might think a book with under 1,000 on census is rare. I do think that we as a hobby should set up some consistent definitions. Also, to your point, high-grade conditional rarity -- as you suggest -- virtually disappears in the '80s and beyond with the exception of 9.9s and 10s.

Hi, Dan! Always love to hear from you. Yeah, it's really tough to know the degree to which the CGC census reflects extant copies. Certainly, a higher proportion of uber-valuable books have been slabbed relative to not-as-valuable books. That said, I agree that we have plenty of folks who are against slabbing. The mile high copy of Action 1 is still unslabbed (and definitely exists).

That's true. CGC census counts do, I believe, serve as a decent proxy for relative rarity for high-priced comics. I address the issue here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f7-Sl8Wp2svMnGw.html

True. I do believe they serve a reasonable proxy for relative rarity for high-dollar books. I address that issue here if you want to hear my thinking. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f7-Sl8Wp2svMnGw.html

Hi, Xboxgamer. Thanks for the thoughtful comment. Yeah, I'm working on a video that takes a deeper dive into rarity. You're exactly right. Ghost copies artificially boost census numbers. Lack of submission and undiscovered copies contribute to underrepresentation. From what I've learned from Matt -- and what seems to be a popular opinion among many comic experts -- is that the census represents 50 to 75% of exceptionally valuable comic books. However, the vast, vast majority of comics are not exceptionally valuable. Which means, as you mention, that most comics that appear "rare" on CGC census are anything but.

Oh, I should also mention that Swag never thought ASM 129 was rare. He was simply mentioning that he was surprised the instagram poster thought it was rare :-)

@@kestonsoldschoolcomicbooks6842 ya that’s a fair point I agree I’m sure that’s not what he meant either Just the sticking of that book next to pre code horror it makes it look like one could think there wasn’t that many high grade complete copies and it’s unheard of I don’t know the print count of ASM-129 but I see it a lot in different grades and in multiple at local shows Especially because it goes for so much in top grade where chamber of chills in lower grade is that price range Also I misspoke it was Detective 27 1st appearance of Batman not Batman 1 I recently saw it on Instagram it was graded a .5 Thanks for replying I look forward to your deeper video on sacristy

Hi, Christopher. Much thanks for the comment. Are you thinking that some of books on census are ghosts (i.e., book that have been resubmitted?). Another way to look at this is that many other EC titles aren't valuable enough to be submitted, therefore the census count is proportionately much smaller relative to the population of these books. CSS22 has become valuable enough where it makes financial sense to submit even low grade books. What are your thoughts?

Well for example crime suspense stories 15 has 127 copies on the census, number 18 has 120 on the census, number 3 has only 53 on the census. Similarly, tales from the crypt 26 has 75 on the census and weird science 5 has 83 on the census. I understand your point and it's well taken however I believe many of those copies have visited cgc more than once because of its greater value shoot maybe as many as five times on some copies. That 7.5 Jammu you're holding may have been reincarnated from a 5.5 to a 6 to a 6.5 to a 7. I think we both know that that sort of thing would really mess up the numbers

@@christophertomasello1227 Thanks, Chris. Certainly, ghost books on census are problematic. I don't think they constitute a huge percentage of books on census though, but that's tough to know. Matt Nelson recently stated -- accurately -- that it is in the best interest of dealers and collectors to turn in the labels of comics that have been re-submitted. Having higher census counts for a book can potentially deflate its value.

Personally, I have resubmitted several books to cgc and I never told them about it because I was afraid that I might screw up my grade. I would be willing to bet that most people feel the same way. That having been said, I think css 22 also had a great big bullseye on it during the book burnings of the 50s. Remember this book cover was the poster child for the Senate investigations. Girl scouts were going door-to-door to collect comic books. And mad mothers against comics (Mac)😂 would be ripping up that book first. At the end of the day nobody really knows the true numbers 2:20 but it's fun to speculate. Keep up the good work on your channel and I hope to do business sometime in the future-or at least argue about the numbers

Hi Geoffrey. Good point. There's a bazillion little idiosyncrasies out there. What meets the threshold of being recognized as a cool, rare thing coveted by collectors vs. an annoying error that takes away from the aesthetic appeal of a book. CGC and the Overstreet Price Guide are gatekeepers in a way. For example, CGC can identify something as a "variant." I'm talking to Matt Nelson (from CGC) later this month. I'll bring up this excellent question.

Hi, Michael. Thanks for sharing. Rarity is a funny term, very dependent on context and on the collectible type.

Hi, Matthew. No doubt about that. Thanks for commenting!

Haha. Thanks for commenting, Exodus. My beef is less dramatic than most :-)

Appreciate it, VV!

Duly noted in the annals of time. :-)

Hi, Nighttiger. Interesting take. Thanks for sharing. In my opinion, I think rarity should, theoretically, be based on how many copies exist by whatever path gets them there. I do agree that Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1 is a rare (and super cool) book.