If you want to land a developer job check out my program with CourseCareers: techwithtim.net/dev

Stack overflow actually has a survey where most professional software engineers have a CS degree. CS degree people are still preferred over people with any other degree or no other degree. People hiring software developers prefer people with CS degree or people with Engineering, Math or Physics degree. You don't need a degree is a myth perpetuated by online influencers and bootcamps to sell their courses.

Another reason to get a degree is job requirements. Some of companies instantly eliminate candidates without a degree.

The bootcamp/self-taught era is pretty much over. CS is a popular degree now and tons of graduates each year. If you are self-taught you are competing with new grads with a formal education, and experienced professionals who were laid off. Companies got burned by bad bootcamp grads. A goofy 3-month bootcamp isn't going to make you competitive. Colleges also provide internship/networking/career fair opportunities.

You HAVE to get your degree in 2024+. You don't know how privileged you are when you have a degree in software or cs

I dropped out 25 years ago and I am now back with only two more years left to get my computer science degree. I highly recommend getting a CS degree there’s more to it than just programming and it opens up way more doors than just being a self taught programmer.

A portfolio is better than a degree. As a software company owner, I've met with multiple local universities looking for opportunities to hire grads or offer internships. The curricula are generally theoretical or outdated tech where they attempt to be hands-on. Sitting on the sidelines for 4-5 years in a fast-moving field like software is obviously going to leave you behind. To pay $100K-$200K for that downtime could permanently derail your personal finances. I'd only recommend a degree if you do it in parallel with working on learning skills on practical projects which could help you launch a product or build a good portfolio.

Back in the day....(aka late 70's early 80's). IT gigs were pretty easy to get. I "dropped out" from a "big 10" school with a background in EE and CS. I took a job in Fortune-500 company on the East coast in IT Computer Operations. The shop was implementing DEC systems into their remote locations. I was one of the few people there who had extensive (albeit academic) training on DEC systems. One year later, they promoted me into "development". They kept promoting me...and I stayed there for 4+ years. I was also lucky that my "boss" (aka project leader) was also my technical "mentor". That's when I really learned about development vs. production, platform interfacing, real world "problems" and my favorite...memo writing and user-level communications. Mentoring, speaking&writing and overall "social comfort" (with other peers) are really important in your first job.

Yeah the degree route was much better for me. Started self teaching myself and had personal projects, but didn’t actually start getting interviews until I started a post bacc in computer science that was less than $10K from a state school. I know you’re trying to sell your course, but there are definitely affordable CS degrees out there, and you’re qualified for internships whereas before you were not. You can really stand out from the crowd with a degree with all the competition out there.

I have yet to see a job posting for data science that does not have a degree requirement. A lot of them require a minimum of masters too. Which is dumb because almost all my learning has come from Codecademy and building my own projects. I think no degree is more for SWE.

As a CS degree holder, this is actually a really good video about the topic. And I really agree with the part of you still need to learn outside the degree

Degrees Can only give you fundamentals but that is important too. Details comes from your own time. My fundamentals still help (34 years later) to take IT decisions.

Self taught here. I self studied for 1 year, 6-7 hours a day. I live in Europe, and got a job six months ago. You just have to love it to succeed.

I used to think back in january 2021 that I'd take a few CS courses at a local institute of technology and get a certificate and work as a software dev. Turns out after 24 credits, I realized I needed to know WAY more. Now, with 54 credits under my belt, I have a junior dev job, but I still feel I should know more if I ever want to work as a senior dev and plan to finish at least another 21 credits part time. But I'll probably realistically take another 30 credits or more.

I am 42 I landed a job that is a hybrid network engineer : software engineer. I started college at 40 because job paying for it. I am almost done 6 months left. I would say I have learned like Tim said about 25% useful things. I also agree it takes a certain person to do this. I don’t think I am a good coder but I am a good network engineer so combining software makes me acceptable.

Excellent !!!

Hey Tim, just a quick question are you using any sort of AI filters in your video editing? Just wondering as I have been searching for some myself

I went to school for CS (online postbacc program) in my late 20's after completing a degree in music at age 22. I am 2 classes away from finishing my degree after 3 years as a part-time student. I got a really good job in support software engineering after my first year of school, largely due to the skills I gained in school. However, I cannot recommend getting a CS degree if you already have a college degree because of how much time/money it takes to complete. I think having a bachelor's degree is useful, and getting one in CS is especially useful, but if you already have a degree or have no interest in going to college, then don't do it. There are more time/financially efficient ways to do so. I definitely could have got my same job or a different one in software engineering without being in the degree program, and now it feels like I'm just finishing the program for the sake of it.

There are colleges in Europe which includes practical work experience as part if their program so once you graduate, you actually have both the degree and experience to land a job and to make it even better it's totally free for EU citizens and in fact many countries here in the EU offer free University degrees such as Germany and Malta.

Thanks alot Tim I was so stressed in choosing a carrer and now I'm pretty that I'll be better off somewhere like a data science since I am intrested in business more

Great Video, Thank you for the clarification on what a CS degree actually is? Thanks again!

Excelente video 👍

Great video as always, I was wondering if you could make a video on how to work with open source, contribute, be useful etc.

I love my degree. I learned so much in a great structure. I commuted so not much debt at all. I think I became a well rounded person from it. And I agree you also still need to learn programming outside of school to be valuable.

100%agree with Tim on every point made... especially as i worked in University for 5years as a dorm manager with students that fall under all thise points being made upfront and personally... heard all the stories n narratives firsthand

I’d say go to community college first and get the pre-reqs out the way then transfer to a 4 year. At a cc you can easily knock off 60 credits of a 120 credit program fairly quick (just make sure the classes transfer to your desired 4-year). It’s much cheaper and flexible than a 4 year so you have more time to learn additional skills and work a job alongside doing school whilst saving a lot of money.

Really helpful advise. 👍🙏

While I was in college working on a CS major and strengthening my program design and structure knowledge and work to a deadline is to write programs for my accounting class study assignments. To write the programs I had the learn the accounting topic to the point I could create a program for it. The deadline was having completed the program before moving on to the next accounting topic. This really sharpened my computer knowledge and skills, plus making it easy to be prepared for any accounting class tests. Learning to become an effective computer designer/programmer does require self disapline and initiative to succeed in this career.

If you want to go the self taught route YOU DO NOT NEED TO PAY A SINGLE PENNY TO LEARN! There are many many many free resources for absolutely everything to get a software dev job. If you want to get a degree, You can earn world class degrees online from home part time. Georgia tech has a M.S. program for about 7k. UT Austin for about 10k,. Even Stanford has an online compsci degree that you can do for I think like 45k (if you can get into the program, graduate and somehow can't get a job, that's a you problem). You can earn mid tier degrees online part time for about 1k or less per course for undergrads (SNHU, UND). There's even self placed courses at UND (not the full degree). So you CAN go to even top and mid teir schools without going into massive debt, you just need to make a plan for it. If you want more software development skills, you also need to plan for it by either picking a different school/program or getting more of that on the side.

As a senior in my degree, this feels like a good reality check lol I looked at interview questions showing code that we never did for our coding classes, so I'll have to catch up on all the leetcode lol I've recently started on building practical projects too which is a start

CS dégrée is important Not mandatory but you have an competitive advantage with it

Tim, I have been a subscriber since covid time and I like watching your videos. This year, I will graduate from high school as a dotnet developer with a freelance job. Long story short, I am already on the track on the field and I am teaching everything myself. I want a degree just to say I have a degree, so, I was planning to go through an online degree program that costs less than 5K USD for the whole 4 year program. Do you think that is good enough and cheap enough to say I have a degree and do you think it will give me the flexibility of continuing on self-teaching? Thank you! Edit: Another Consideration, I am from Africa, Ethiopia

I am 42 with a degree in mechanical engineering, currently teaching myself to code. I would warn youngsters strongly about taking a gap year. I've got friends where one year became two and basically never stopped. I wanted to sail yachts, my parents said get a degree then you can do whatever you want. It was worth it. However I know how stupidly expensive tertiary education is in the USA, which is likely a large percentage of viewership here. To the people without a degree, your motivation and attitude towards work will count more. Unfortunately, without the degree you may sometimes struggle to get that door to open. But also know that most jobs one will get through contacts, or direct contact. So network as much as you can. To date I've still never gotten a job via a recruiter.

25 year professional developer in NYC. None of my comp sci training was relevant to any of my jobs, in particular the calculus, probability theory, discreet math, etc. But gone are the days of the face to face interview where you had the opportunity to sell yourself. I got many jobs just by doing a good whiteboard of my last project. Now you go thru multiple levels of testing before you meet a human being.

hi bro I recently subscribed to your channel and I will say that I like your content and it is very useful but I have a question: can you do brute force training using Selenium? it would be useful for me

If colleges got rid of general edu, the degree could take only 2 years instead of 4 but of course the universities would hate to lose free money like that

I strongly agree. I think with the way society has changed, especially technologically, college can no longer be seen as having a monopoly on being a source of learning for post high school education. Pretty ironic that with college, a lot of times the idea is that you going to broke to learn skills not to be broke.

ANY ONE CAN CODE BUT DEGREES PROVIDE PROBLEM SOLVING SKILLS ALONG WITH MATH. plus it provides high demand job security there is wide range of fields in computer science. computer architecture foundations of network and ML and AI and having analytic foundations really matters in problem solving and mathematical solutions in computer science

Worked for me. Great foundation

Hey guys, how is the situation with IT jobs in Canada? I have a work visa and planning to come to Canada for a year, probably in Vancouver.

Thank God I dropped Comp Sci and switched majors a few years ago. Good luck to anyone who is still majoring in that field

He does a really good job

What about affordable colleges/Universities, community colleges or online degrees? I feel like everyone seems to pick expensive college knowing they can get into huge amounts of debt, unless you get a huge scholarship or your family members help cover the costs. I’m planning to work at a job temporarily to save up and then attend an online degree program while working. That way I’ll get the degree and hopefully finish the degree with little to no debt, along with FAFSA and scholarships if it’s applied.

I went through a 2 year thorough web dev academy. Dunno bout degrees etc . I actually learned everything from declaring vatiables to building full blown stack apps.

I really didn’t have a choice to put off college after high school cuz there weren’t many other options or opportunities in terms of jobs that would benefit me

i did a CS degree, and your points are right, i had to do projects on the side and made sure i did as much internships that i got, and the last intenrship i did i made sure i pursured a full-time at the same company.

I got my associates in applied science / computer programming this may . I’m still wondering if I should get my bachelors . Currently , working on projects

Hi I love your content and mind set , I want to ask your opinion on my correct state I am 35 years old and I entered this world a year ago , I did a fullstack course and I don't have a degree at all , do you think it's possible to get a job at my state?

thanks Tim

You don't need a Computer Science degree per se but it is a lot easier for you to get a job compared to others - all else being equal. Math, Physics, Engineering degrees are somewhat equivalent for most companies. 1. Fundamentals of Programming - It takes a bit of time to actually understand well. Usually, 1 year in a college setting. A 3 month bootcamp is too short for most people. 2. Data Structures and Algorithms - Very important class in tech interviews. 3. Mathematics - A CS program usually requires up to Linear algebra. This is extremely important for machine learning. Statistics is very important for Data Science. 4. Computer Science - Its good to actually know how a computer works from the electrical components, logic gates, memory, machine code, Assembly, operating systems, compilers. Its like having deep knowledge in Biology and Chemistry for a healthcare professional worker. 5. Electives and Specialties - There are programming specialties that are very difficult to obtain without college. Computer Engineering, Bioinformatics, Quant Finance, Physics, Operations Management, Data Science. 6. Networking. Many of your classmates will be your peers. They may help you along your career with advice, referrals, and information. There are clubs that help with tech interviews. There are events like Hackathons, competitive programming. There is also Alumni support, meetups, mentoring.. 7. Career Resources. Establish collegeds are feeders to the big companies like MAANGs, Consulting, Investment Banking, Government, Military, Fortune 500s, etc.

I been learning as a self taught software developer. This road is very iffy because as I learn more I realize how much I didn’t learn. Your roadmap is very crucial and I think I missed a lot of logic learning as I learned how to build things where logic is not discussed. I also spent more time learning the framework than the language it was based on. My advice to any new self taught programmer is learn the foundation of your language. Study logic and algorithms before you want to build the next Facebook or KZfaq.

I'll be getting an associate degree that's made up of CS and CIS courses. I've mostly liked the CS classes over all but the CIS route requires less if I want to transfer to a university. Going the CS route is at least an extra year before transferring. I feel like I need the structure that comes with school if I want to keep moving forward. Otherwise, I just start prioritizing everything else in my life. So I guess my question is would I be better off going for a less demanding degree like CIS and compensate by learning the extra stuff employers want or should I spend the extra year for CS? I'm already working in an unrelated industry and am figuring out how to pay for university out of pocket if necessary. I like programming and software development sounds interesting to me as a career.

im from germany, 18 and in the first year of my apprenticeship as a it-specialist at mercedes benz group services berlin, i will finish in 1 year and then i want to work there for 3 years (im safe to get the job) and while doing that getting a software enginnering bachelors degree while working full time. what do you think about that? (i want to work in the us in the future for FAANG companies)

To anyone watching and finance is the issue, i highly suggest what Im doing. Uber and Arizona State have a partnership where if you complete 2000 trips and keep good ratings, Uber covers 100% of tuition. The computer science degree requires at least at 24 composite on ACT. Ive been admitted and start in the fall. Super pumped!

I went back to college in January of 2023 for a BS in computer software technology. I have zero regrets going back and I know it’ll give me an edge over people without it a degree. Where my hang up will be in my opinion is building my own projects.

As a mid-level network engineer it's the same with computer science degrees. Most of them still need their CCNA cert in order to be taken seriously in the networking world. And honestly they only really need the cert if they know for a fact they love networking and only want to do that.

IBM hired John von Neumann as a consultant in 1951. When I worked for the company I never heard or saw any mention of the term "von Neumann Architecture". Most books have crappy explanations. It is usually electronics books that have good explanations but they do not use the term von Neumann architecture. Programmers usually do not know electronics though.

I recently started at a community college with a plan to transfer to a university once im done. I’m blown away by how many scholarships are available at the cc level. Haven’t paid anything, im in North Carolina.

Hey Tim ! i am 23 years old right now and i want to work in tech, should i go for undergraduate or learn on my own ???? PLease reply ! I did electronics engineering 2 year diploma from canada and now i got my PR and now i am domestic student for university instead of paying lot of tution as an international student.

You should move to Germany where all good universities are free in case money is an issue. I actually did my CS degree with focus on AI. Even had the chance to get into research, but eventually decided against it. Btw almost anything Tim said is true. I also did an apprenticeship to try the job first, then had a freelancing business during semester breaks. Without my prior experience, I wouldn't have had the same opportunities. Find your passion first or at least learn things that will be beneficial no matter what.

I dropped out my my CS degree after one year and have been a full stack .NET developer for three years now. Not required so long as you dedicate yourself to standing out and being great

My programming class was hella difficult and on top of that I didn’t feel connected to the class 😢

I’m a data analyst I know SQL Excel(VBA) Python(when I say Python I mean Python, I build pipelines, automate emails and reports im not the best by any means but I’m not a beginner either.) PowerBI(DAX) R(im truly an amateur when it comes to R I’m still working on it but I can build a report using it and do some simple statistics) Java(im going back to school and it’s the language my major is using so getting familiar with it before hand) And im struggling to find work, and majority of the reasons for the rejections are due to my lack of a degree. It’s unfortunate yes the market is difficult right now I’d advise everyone take it as an opportunity to strengthen your skills become better for when the market becomes better

Could you make a video listing what you need to learn outside of getting your computer science degree? I’m about to graduate with a computer science degree, but you’re right I still feel like I’m missing something.

Another opportunity not to get in debt is getting remote degree. Indian universities very affordable, teach in English and quality is good enough.

please advice me am right now in college learn CS ! but i focus only javascript and am done some project is am correct?

I pretty much understand people landing a job without a degree, everyone needs their own income, but when it comes to specific topics, like machine learning, it is very frustrating to see that, at least where I live, so many people make it to big companies without knowing calculus and with poor statistics knowledge. Nowadays, it seems that knowing a framework has a lot more value than having good theory knowledge. What I mostly see in companies is people doing their "cake recipe" they learn in internet without any idea of what is behind that.

*Laughs in European* My CS University degree cost 2.000 € including public transportation (which is quite good here). No, I did not forget 0s. My Uni was even one of the more expensive ones.

man, people are gonna underestand what this man says after graduation ..

In the past no degree but experience counted for something. I think a degree shows you have an interest in it, by itself it won’t guarantee you anything. I think having a degree, certifications, and project portfolio is all important. All of it combined shows you have a passion for this.

According to APLU, on average, people with a college degree make $1.2 million dollars more over their lifetime vs someone without a degree. Now what would that say about a person with a CS degree? I imagine it's alot higher. Also you can slash your debt considerably by going through community college for 2 years, then transferring. While there are some people that were able to land a job without a degree, there are many that never landed a job. Something to think about.

Honestly, the 2 year gap sounds great, but I advice against it, it sounds like you would have the time of your life and all the time in the world to develop your passions, but for most people it's just a period of nothing, better then to just go get the degree immediately, I took a gap year, and a job, but I never had any energy pursuing my passions after the job, so it was wasted time

I got my associate degree engineering technology. I pay for it out of pocket. I feel like it was complete waste of money. But it worked out because it helped me transfer my credit to a university so I can get my CS degree. And I’m considering focusing on machine learning.

46 years old, mental illness, never got a degree but was taught theory and design by my father (a systems' analyst) at age 5 and 6 and have been a hobbyist programmer for 41 years, mostly self taught. So glad I never paid for a degree, I wouldn't of been able to handle it and just end up in debt.

I’m 23 and just started college and I am feeling so old 😅

Also to become an officer in the military (from civilian), having an undergrad degree first is a requirement. A STEM degree even from a mediocre school practically guarantees a spot in OCS. Cyber operations officers are ridiculously unqualified, and the military knows it. Cyber will pluck you right up, at least early in career.

What about SE degree, i know they are similar but just in case there are some differences?

For immigration with Computer science degree, Is the HND pathway degree better or a Thailand private university degree better? (Search Engine and LLM languages can't provide enough information) Thanks for reading.

what about certifications in computer science

What about doing a Bachelors in Software Engineering...Since it is a lot more practical does it make it more useful or not?

23? Wait until your in your 50's and looking.

I just wish I could get a clear sign if all the work I’m putting into learn is going to have a ROI. I am self teaching and it’s coming along. But all the Reddit and KZfaq videos discourage if all this time is going to be wasted if I can not get a job.

How does one know if they're "too stupid" to learn programming vs needing to work harder to overcome the learning curve? Based on the video if you arent a natural at logic & math then maybe better to become an electrician or contractor?

the technology in the the manufacturing area is old. there are job advertisements for cs degreed people to work in this area. i knew a person who got a degree in cs in the factory i worked at once. she was doing quality control on documentation. yuc!. she went and got another job at another factory but they wanted her to learn python. i havent found a position in software programming yet. although i have been learning python for the past 4 yrs. i have many years experience in electronics and combining both would be the ideal job.

I have question about data science is communication and info engineering degree acceptable in that field

indeed some people are naturally better programmers than others, normally the kids who are good at maths and quick-fire maths.

Watching this after literally dropping out last week. Don't know what the future holds. If anyone is reading this please pray for me xD

Anyone else here doing Computer Science but NOT planning on becoming a software developer? I'm a Mathematics and Comp Sci major, plan on applying for PhD after I graduate. I feel like getting a CS degree to become a developer is kind of a waste of the theoretical information, better to do a business/engineering degree and teach yourself to code.

@Tim - "CS requires plenty of math" K, so how much math pass Calc I & II?

Unfortunately a lot of positions requires you to have a bachelors degree to even get at the door. But it is true a bachelors degree (on any field) doesn’t guarantee financial success.

Not a great take, a few years ago this was the case when there was jobs for online coursera programmers, but the fundamentals you learn in computer science are far more advanced than what you learn for programming online. Mathematics is another benefit, knowing mathematics helps a lot with making high quality software, anyone can make software but high quality software is completely different. Anyone who is able to learn programming on their own is only going to excel while doing a degree since there's plenty of time to study on your own as well. On average, no CS degree, you'll probably be looking to entry level jobs with little to no growth, and much of which will be replaced soon by AI.

I have done all the bad things in this video. I went to college for comp sci. Didn’t get a job also didn’t graduate. Also took too long. Man if I could do that sh** over again… but now my life is f***’d

i'm 31 yo, should i start to learn or is too late? i have no degree

Guys software development is not the only IT path...

So what's your thoughts on wgu?

It really helps to have rich and helpful parents :)

There are a lot of benefits to a degree that aren't monetary, such as critical thinking skills, networking, lifelong friends, exposure to new types of people and topics. It is a shame in the US the price of entry is so high.

1. You don't need a CS degree if your only goal is to find a programming job. 2. But to get into a top company, it's far easier if you have a cs degree from a top tier university. 3. People always say skills trumps degree. I agree, but i'm not sure why not both? It's really competitive to land a job in a top company. You do want every edge you can get. So for me, I want a top cs degree + great skills at the same time.

People forget about community colleges. Community colleges are great, less expensive and you get a associate’s degree then transfer the credits to a 4 year.

Why is this video so helpful...?