The Truth about Heat Pumps: Debunking the Myth.

  Рет қаралды 366,464

Urban Plumbers

Urban Plumbers

2 жыл бұрын

#heatpump #heatgeek #urbanplumbers
Another episode of the heat pump conspiracy debate. Join it below. Call Roger to debate Adam from Heat geek.
Book your own air source heat pump or gas boiler quote with me here:
www.urbanplumbers.co.uk/
My kit:
T shirt - amzn.to/3sO4ped
Flow cup - amzn.to/3HM092U
Service matt - amzn.to/3pDFLuQ
Screwdrivers - amzn.to/3tADNwo
Spanners - amzn.to/3Ko8mvM
Wera Ratchet - amzn.to/3pGoxNj
Veto Technician Bag - amzn.to/3tSvtID
Veto Tool Bag - amzn.to/3CfTAoh
License ID: r6B75Exd7kQ

Пікірлер: 2 000
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
To everyone commenting on the size of the radiators I would just like to point out that from June 15th 2022 new Part L building regulations will require all full central heating installation including gas boilers to be low temperature of maxium flow of 55C What it means in practice is that even on gas boilers you will have to install radiators of considreably larger sizes and in older properties it simply means radiators of similar size as in this video for rooms with comparable heatloss. See below "A revised version of Approved Document L (Part L) of the Building Regulations has been published which will take effect from June 15th 2022. With this revision there are a number of changes to guidance and requirements covering both the new build and retrofit markets. With regards to existing dwellings the main points are: Complete New System Installations require: An appropriate heat loss calculation for the dwelling A system sizing methodology that takes account of the properties of the dwelling, such as the Chartered Institute of Plumbing and Heating Engineering’s Plumbing Engineering Services Design Guide The system should be designed to operate at a 55°C heating flow temperature"
@bigchicken061
@bigchicken061 2 жыл бұрын
55c doesnt seem hot enough to kill and stop bacteria growth the system will get clogged up
@rsole65
@rsole65 2 жыл бұрын
So they’ve changed the regs to make the giant radiators of heat pump installs look normal. Space is at a premium in most older houses in the UK hence the popularity of combi boilers allowing removal of tanks to free up living space. In my opinion heat pumps have a place in new homes designed for them but as a retrofit too expensive and too room intensive, wait for better tech.
@hvacdesignsolutions
@hvacdesignsolutions 2 жыл бұрын
I think people are reading too much into the size of the rads. A modern new-build wouldn't need such large rads, and the ground floor would typically be UFH.
@hughtattersall7583
@hughtattersall7583 2 жыл бұрын
That means the return will be below dew point and condensing boilers will waste energy
@jayzeebeezee7442
@jayzeebeezee7442 2 жыл бұрын
@@rsole65 I agree. It's all so farcical. Seems to me if you want to be green you better have deep pockets. To me, that is fundamentally wrong. I want to be green but I can't afford it. And that probably applies to most of us. Sadly, those like me and many others also, are slaves to oil and gas, and ironically we are the ones who can least afford it.
@dhelton40
@dhelton40 2 жыл бұрын
Here in the southern United States, we use forced air heat pumps very effectively. In the event of the extream cold, it is backed up by electric resistance heat. This back up heat is seldom needed but can also act as emergency heat if the compressor fails. With the very hot summers the ability to provide air conditioning makes this the most practical system for most southern states.
@pedazodetorpedo
@pedazodetorpedo 2 жыл бұрын
It's probably a good system for the southern US, not so good in northern Europe though
@gegwen7440
@gegwen7440 2 жыл бұрын
@@pedazodetorpedo IMO not so as we used a split system for a good few years before moving elsewhere and really miss the system in summer or winter.
@ericdunn6232
@ericdunn6232 2 жыл бұрын
@@pedazodetorpedo works fine in Canada. Hot summers and very cold Winters.
@njn5884
@njn5884 2 жыл бұрын
Up here in New York there pushing heat pumps now.
@user-kc1tf7zm3b
@user-kc1tf7zm3b 2 жыл бұрын
@@ericdunn6232 The Canadian Government has explicitly stated heat pumps are appropriate for the entire country. That _really_ says a lot. 🇨🇦
@yelimsssantiago5328
@yelimsssantiago5328 Жыл бұрын
I am from Romania and I am a woman. Your video was helping me incredibly! So thank you In my country, heat pumps are at their beggining. But due to energy crisis, there is crazyness on the market. It is a jungle, actually. Huge lack of knowledge, few good specialists, and lot of abuses. Myself I started to learn a bit about heatpumps and installations after having a very painful experience with an insltaller claiming to be an expert. I found no other solution than to start learning myself, learning the heatpump installer manual like a bible and start testing really well the so call "experts" offering to reinstall correctly my pump. Was it enough? yes and no. But... your videos were solid milestones for me, on the road to learning from the best. Therefore I am sending you my entire gratitute. Love from Romania 💜🧡
@TulgaD5
@TulgaD5 Жыл бұрын
Same over here in Germany. Since the beginning of the energy crisis so called "experts" took over the maket with their cash grab methods. Everyone, who did not do their research on heat pumps gets scammed most likely. But once it's done correctly, oh boy, get ready to safe some big €€€, I just got back 500 € from my electricity company because I predicted 3500 kWh and only used 2200 kWh.
@tatradak9781
@tatradak9781 9 ай бұрын
Your a brave ♀️.. If nobody understand in your area, then find a hydraulic engineer, these machines are actually hot fluid pumps and need careful mathematical calculations and unrestricted flow, both are critical for SCOP of 3.5 or higher.. Good luck 😊
@benjaminbreault3362
@benjaminbreault3362 2 жыл бұрын
Nice install. It's of the outmost importance to reduce the Average temprature of the water in the system. Every degree that the temprature is reduced is about 2,5% Efficiency. I have a Geothremal heat pump and my Maxium temprature is set at 28C. Noramlly the system runs at about 24-26C. Last year I had a COP of around 6.5, including warm water production. A lot of people on here are saying that the install is complicated and saying that doing the caluclations on the average heat loss per room is too much work when really they should be doing this work regardless of what system they're installing.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
That’s a nice cop!
@jurgenschaefer2590
@jurgenschaefer2590 Жыл бұрын
You are right. Before installation of new heating system you should know the demand.
@Rayz-ow8bg
@Rayz-ow8bg 2 жыл бұрын
Looks like a very good installation. Well it wouldn’t surprise me if this installation cost £15,000-£20,000 probably slightly more. In my opinion I think this is way too much money for most families to go down this route.. personally before installing a air source heat pump I go down the route of installing insulation possibly new windows and also looking on how to improve the buildings fabric to decrease heat loss. From my experience as a heating engineer, heat pumps have a place but most the time badly installed and proper care and do diligence is not taken while surveying the job.. I personally would advise people to look into how to make the property more energy-efficient through wrapping it up then installing a heat pump on old properties. Now if you had a brand-new property that was 100% up to scratch building regs regarding insulation or possibly a passive house then a air source heat pump would be ideal specially if you have underfloor heating everywhere.. Personally I think spending £20,000 on improving windows, insulation etc is far more bang for your buck
@tonydization
@tonydization 2 жыл бұрын
Far more bang for your buck than what? Good insulation is a prerequisite of installing a heat pump based system anyway so it isn't a case of either or but after those improvements you suggest have been made. I think Simon covered it, alot of care should be taken over the system design and heat loss calcs to avoid dissappointment.
@coldfinger459sub0
@coldfinger459sub0 2 жыл бұрын
Replacing windows in the house especially if you’re going to go to the high U value triple glaze plus the proper airtight installation and hopefully water leak proof will cost just as much as a heat pump if not more. Air sealing is your biggest bang for the buck and the simplest and cheapest. The proper insulation on a new build or upgrading insulation should’ve been something that was tackled long ago in the first place before the heat pump installation. Then with those considerations out of the way and properly implemented you would need a smaller heat pump costing you less because you have already maximize your insulation and air sealing and prove it and document it by doing a whole house blower door test.
@conr3x
@conr3x 2 жыл бұрын
Right. They installed a wooping 17kW HP. Customer has a very big house or a very old house. Step 1. insulate the house to a modern 30w/m2 heat load (at worst conditions) Step 2. upgrade to properly calculated underfloor heating throught the house. Step 3. choose an easy to install yourself monoblock HP (4-6kW)= 4000 euro and a separate easy to install 100 liter HP boiler= 1000 euro.
@mihaiachim5299
@mihaiachim5299 2 жыл бұрын
@@conr3x step 3 10:1(or more) modulation Gas condensing boiler @1000E :P
@thatboyaintright4626
@thatboyaintright4626 2 жыл бұрын
Spot on! Fabric first is the phrase
@n0267527
@n0267527 2 жыл бұрын
Really informative great video. Very easy to see how they get a bad rep because of incorrect spec. The size of those radiators though wow!
@Lutonman2010
@Lutonman2010 2 жыл бұрын
My god. What on earth have your customers got to do for a living to afford this monstrosity of an install. Most of my customers are scraping together the money for a 2k combi swap. As always the standard of your work and knowledge is unquestionable, and I’m sure all of us heating engineers can appreciate seeing someone doing something perfectly to the book, but for millions of people in this country this technology is simply a financial non starter and will never be affordable or practical. As far as the changes to the building regs, I can tell you now that hardly anyone is gonna do it. Just like the ridiculous Erp sticker calculating fiasco, that’s largely now just ignored, or boiler plus which is often again just ignored for people on fixed incomes then every penny counts and new controls are often an expense they won’t go to. These giant 20k heat pump installs are just pie in the sky virtue signalling for the middle classes. I’m calling people this year, regular customers for a boiler service and being told by them they can’t afford it. Yet more regulations coming in to make installs even more expensive for people. I’ve got fifteen years in this industry left till I retire and I can’t wait.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
People have diffrent priorities mate. Strange how £30K car does not raise any eybrows - but a £10-15K heat pump creates a mass hysteria.
@ItsFriscoBaby
@ItsFriscoBaby 2 жыл бұрын
All so true. I still enjoy the industry but there is no question that the push toward completely refitting houses regardless of if it's the best choice or not is just pushing people into needless debt.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
@@ItsFriscoBaby no one is forcing anyone to install a heat pump. The opposite is happening, people are being encouraged to go that route with government grants.
@ItsFriscoBaby
@ItsFriscoBaby 2 жыл бұрын
@@UrbanPlumbers I didn't say they were being forced. What I sad was they are being pushed in a direction regardless of its suitability which is exactly what's happening.
@iaincook2493
@iaincook2493 2 жыл бұрын
that's a bunch of copper
@scottpeters8142
@scottpeters8142 2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant video 👌 I've almost completed the awakening course on Heat Geek and its unbelievable what you learn. It was watching Andrew Millward and yourself that made me go for it and I'm so glad I did. The bar is definitely being raised with knowledge and installs like this which is great for the industry. Keep up the good work 🙌
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
thanks mate, great that so many people are doing the course and improvding the industry.
@ItsFriscoBaby
@ItsFriscoBaby 2 жыл бұрын
I've watched Rogers videos and to be honest nothing he said is false. Heat pumps can be made work in every house but they are not the best solution for every household. Maybe the running costs he talks about are more down to bad installs rather than the system itself Those two huge radiators look ridiculous.
@JanZamani
@JanZamani 2 жыл бұрын
Honestly though, nobody is saying everyone has to get a ASHP right now. The government want to transition to it as long term gas is unsustainable and of course the people with the gas (i.e. russia) are not the best people to be dealing with. In the long term, the supplies of gas will get lower and lower and the price (inc carbon tax) will get higher and higher. This is future proofing your home in my eyes, though of course not financially viable for most. It only highlights the need for more government assistance on this. Though I think we can all agree that grants on proper insulation (or even instalment plans) are the way forward short term. Even gas fired homes will use less if they're properly insulated and will pay themselves off in the long term. People just cant afford the initial investment right now.
@hicknopunk
@hicknopunk 2 жыл бұрын
You need an industrial scale of sterling engines + liquid metal batteries
@stuartbridger5177
@stuartbridger5177 2 жыл бұрын
Great video. We had a GSHP installed in our 1960's house about 15 years ago. We have over sized radiators but not as scientifically sized as your install. A lot of plumbing yes, it was 5K of work back then, about the same cost as the heat pump itself. We probably went about it the wrong way in that we improved house insulation after the install. We do supplement ours with a wood burner in the lounge in the winter, but otherwise very happy. I can't honestly say its any cheaper to run than other options (we have no mains gas in our village), but the complete lack of maintenance and not having to worry about oil top-ups is a real benefit.
@hughmarcus1
@hughmarcus1 2 жыл бұрын
Yes. But that’s ground source. Not beset by the same issues as air source.
@xxwookey
@xxwookey 2 жыл бұрын
Upgrading the fabric first should save money on the heat pump installation, but in simple decarbonisation terms the heat pump can be done a lot more quickly (and more cheaply) than the fabric improvements, so even though it's a bit inefficient there is an increasingly good case for just whacking in the heatpump first, then fixing the rest as finance allows, for the vast majority of people who can;t afford to do the whole damn thing in one blitz. Although mortgage-financing for retrofit may change that.
@DavidStruveDesigns
@DavidStruveDesigns 2 жыл бұрын
The fact you have to STILL suppliment it during winter kinda proves it has FAILED and WASN'T "worth it". The whole point of these systems is you shouldn't NEED to suppliment them at all with ANYTHING else - especially not a wood burner lol. Or at least that's what they make you believe with the adverts and publicity they get constantly - "it can make heat even in the winter and cool/heat during the summer".
@Chiller01
@Chiller01 2 жыл бұрын
The pipe work alone is insanely complex, bordering on artistry. There must be miles of copper in that building.
@SolarWebsite
@SolarWebsite Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I noticed that too. That must a significant fraction of the cost of the entire installation.
@karma3101
@karma3101 Жыл бұрын
A follow up video in a years time would be interesting to see how the home owner rates the new system with the old one. I'll keep an eye out for it. Let's hope it airs regardless of the outcome!
@MaxStArlyn
@MaxStArlyn Жыл бұрын
Here is a real world example, after a year worth of use… kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mtt_hdh-mLrKoGg.html
@mikehurst647
@mikehurst647 2 жыл бұрын
Class installation,I'm a commercial engineer but find your channel very informative,keep up the great work,wish all engineers were so thorough.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
thank you for watching!
@HeatGeek
@HeatGeek 2 жыл бұрын
Absolute pleasure working with you Simon. Your a great embassador for the industry!
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
ohh, thank you
@jukeseyable
@jukeseyable 2 жыл бұрын
@@UrbanPlumbers what was the total cost of the installation including parts?
@TheLegend-nx3mm
@TheLegend-nx3mm 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Simon, as usual absolutely stunning install. The work is a true master piece and I know you installed this to someone spec. However shame about the design and products that have been used here , the radiators are truly and shockingly ugly I would sooner have a poster of the elephantman on the wall. Cost for this was probably £25k if this is what the government is encouraging people to have ? We urgently need a new government !!!(I know of an estate that had these fitted and thus far winter cost £1500.00 per quarter , they have to be left on 24/7 .... this size probably £2000.00 per quatre...) And finally I hope who the person who sold this to the customer advised them that , after the install there's no going back to there gas boiler...cuz that will be the next thing this incompetent government will make law...people you have been warned ⚠️ Don't be fooled.......a master piece of workmanship Simon as always 😉
@malachy1847
@malachy1847 2 жыл бұрын
Just wondering could put it Out There... the Make and Model of Robust Circulation Pump you used to pump that seriously Hot water around the Circuit...as I'm sure many folks would have an Interest in that Pump....I have been told "Stuart Turner " Brass/ Bronze pumps do hold up well as Booster Pumps... But haven't had experience with their Circulation Pumps ...Great Upload...
@HeatGeek
@HeatGeek 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheLegend-nx3mm nonsense
@georgeturner6648
@georgeturner6648 2 жыл бұрын
Great video. The installation highlights the serious issues we face with old UK housing stock. Heat loss is the enemy in winter. In summer it’s going to be cooling. I think we have to seriously invest in super insulation before we install heat pumps. Most “ ordinary “ households won’t have the funds for these high end systems. I’ve invested in second hand woolly jumpers. Heat the person not the space perhaps?
@AndrewHelgeCox
@AndrewHelgeCox 2 жыл бұрын
When we stop the drafts ventilating our old homes, we are going to need to get the vapour barriers right to avoid rotting them out from the inside by trapping moisture.
@lewisjones5067
@lewisjones5067 2 жыл бұрын
Couldn’t agree more. The future (well the near future) is a thermostat at 18 degrees and a blanket! Also turning condensing boilers down to 60 degrees. Small changes like this will have an immediate effect and whilst heat pumps and renewable energy are the future... we have a long way to go in the meantime. The government should be investing in insulation and nuclear power rather than giving grants to heat pumps companies
@SisterAbdullahX
@SisterAbdullahX 2 жыл бұрын
@@lewisjones5067 Having to sit with a blanket and gloves on in your lounge is more 18th than 21st century. You’re right about the nuclear power though.
@britexpat_l33t
@britexpat_l33t 2 жыл бұрын
@@AndrewHelgeCox why not just use soffit & ridge vents as American homes do?
@ChrisLee-yr7tz
@ChrisLee-yr7tz 2 жыл бұрын
@@AndrewHelgeCox I agree. I think we're going to see a huge number of problems over the next 20 years because of the big step up in insulation.
@Soloist1983
@Soloist1983 2 жыл бұрын
Here in Arizona heat pumps are all we have; up until this year, I didn't realize there was such thing as a regular A/C system that can't also produce heat. Crazy world out there
@jeffjackson1043
@jeffjackson1043 2 жыл бұрын
I'll be honest watching this is like watching a master artist paint a masterpiece: everything is perfect! I wish I could count on every installer to know how little forgiveness there is on this style of installation!
@steveclouston7515
@steveclouston7515 2 жыл бұрын
Szymon, your videos are second to none. You always take time to break things down clearly, what your opinions are and most importantly why. I think your channel is really underrated, and you still manage to find time for a good sense of humour. Thanks.
@Wonkabar007
@Wonkabar007 2 жыл бұрын
When I saw those radiators, I instantly thought of the monolith in 2001: A Space Odyssey 😄
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
Would have to paint them black for that. I guess those space aliens understood heat pumps perfectly and were heating the moon with them - lol
@Wonkabar007
@Wonkabar007 2 жыл бұрын
@@UrbanPlumbers Monolith black would definitely look good to sci-fi fans 👍
@colinvanful
@colinvanful 2 жыл бұрын
yep i can see them fitting in well in a two up two down town house in the uk .lmao!
@SisterAbdullahX
@SisterAbdullahX 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent work, as always Szymon, but I think this video kind of makes Roger’s point. That install must’ve cost at least £20k, that prv pump alone was £700! And having to fit those massive radiators, including those TWO great ugly things in the lounge! Yes, you’ve shown that ASHP can work in old, solid walled houses, but the cost and impracticality/ugliness of the system will definitely put the large majority of home owners off, as would the running costs. It’s only the well off, virtue signaling “I’m doing my bit” crowd who would entertain that kind of thing.
@dinendale666
@dinendale666 2 жыл бұрын
The £700 pump was only because the cylinder was in the basement.
@SisterAbdullahX
@SisterAbdullahX 2 жыл бұрын
@@dinendale666 ok, so that’s knocked it down to £19.3k!
@lewbaker
@lewbaker 2 жыл бұрын
Couldn't agree more. I watched this video and I'm just thinking, damn how much did that cost, damn how much does THAT cost, holy crap 2 of those massive things I've got 3 rooms that would need the same thing how much would that cost!! and where the hell do I put the giant tank! I'm gonna have a gas combi boiler until the day the gov bans them and my last installed combi before that can't be repaired anymore, after that I'll probably just get my shower replaced by an electric one and freeze in the winter I guess lol
@SisterAbdullahX
@SisterAbdullahX 2 жыл бұрын
@@lewbaker I’m gonna stick my neck out and say we’ll still be using gas boilers after 2050!
@JasperJanssen
@JasperJanssen 2 жыл бұрын
@@lewbaker a couple decades from now using gas will cost so much that you will happily spend the extra on doing things electrically. I would not be surprised if direct electric heating would turn out to be cheaper than gas, at this rate.
@woodenpints
@woodenpints 2 жыл бұрын
The thought of replacing my furnace for $5000🍁 had me cringing already, but watching this gave me heart palpitations at what the cost would be for this system.
@sausagesmcgee7079
@sausagesmcgee7079 Жыл бұрын
don't worry - he's in london - the owners will be rich AF ;-) I bet mr urban plumber does pretty well for himself 🙂
@GoatzombieBubba
@GoatzombieBubba Жыл бұрын
Cheaper in the States.
@danieloaken9485
@danieloaken9485 2 жыл бұрын
Great video as usual mate. Fantastic neat work. I’m not 100percent sold on these systems yet. The ashp unit is not a nice sight in the garden and those radiators are so big they stick out like a sore thumb. Iv got a 4yr old gas boiler with average sized rads in every room. Iv turned the temp on boiler down to 58 degrees and the house still warms up to a comfortable temperature.(insulation in my house isn’t great either) I think roger has valid arguments. Fan of you both 👍🏻
@leeknivek
@leeknivek Жыл бұрын
the boiler might last for 50+ years, at that. or, a good 20 years anyway. these heat pumps are so complicated with digital controllers and fragile parts, compressors, capacitors, refrigerant leaks, they are prone to having problems, they're outdoors, and they only last half as long. they're a little bit less expensive than a boiler to operate, because they only use a relatively small amount of electricity, but that's their only real advantage.
@leeknivek
@leeknivek Жыл бұрын
plus they're just plain ugly anyway
@lexwaldez
@lexwaldez 2 жыл бұрын
It's always about the installation so finding the right people is, as always, super important. I mean the equipment is important but without the right installers, it's never going to work right. It's always about hiring the right people. Hire the right people and they'll make sure you get the right equipment. FWIW we got a new heat pump last fall and it's been AMAZING. Rising power prices and our monthly bills have dropped significantly. Love it.
@kamX-rz4uy
@kamX-rz4uy 2 жыл бұрын
I got one last summer and this winter it saved me $600 versus heating with propane. In 10 years it will have paid for itself so basically I got a new AC unit for no cost.
@lexwaldez
@lexwaldez 2 жыл бұрын
@@kamX-rz4uySame here. And the faster prices rise the faster it pays for itself and the rest of those savings go right into the bank. SADLY, the people that need something like this the MOST are the people that can afford it the LEAST. We need a way to get people living paycheck to paycheck the better tech that will reduce power needs. imho
@Jamie_Johnson
@Jamie_Johnson 2 жыл бұрын
You must like cold showers
@kamX-rz4uy
@kamX-rz4uy 2 жыл бұрын
@@Jamie_Johnson What does that have to do with heat pumps?
@Jamie_Johnson
@Jamie_Johnson 2 жыл бұрын
@@kamX-rz4uy Heat pumps are not going to give you a hot shower
@brentsoutar7495
@brentsoutar7495 2 жыл бұрын
In Australia we just use air based split system heating. It's quick to install and seems a lot easier than the amount of pipe work done here. I have a bunch of Aircon units in my house in all the bedrooms 2.5kw and lounge rooms kitchen etc 7kw and they all function as heaters and air cons. If one breaks all the others keep working. This solution seems overengineered and probably prone to failure as well as probably many many times more expensive. On the other hand looks like nice work 😂
@quadcopter
@quadcopter 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, installing an air to liquid heat pump is just silly. You will have to be a plumber to get that to make sense. Air-air units are easy to install, a lot cheaper and they will make a big difference. Half of Norway has them to heat the house during winter, and some years it will get hot enough in summer to use it as air con for maybe two days.
@jmi5969
@jmi5969 2 жыл бұрын
@@quadcopter Air-to-anything is fine for warm countries like Australia or Norway - well, probably excluding Svalbard. But it the temp regularly drops below -20C, the only way to go (apart from burning fossil) is geothermal.
@brentsoutar7495
@brentsoutar7495 2 жыл бұрын
Yes when it gets extremely cold then heat pumps become less useful although if Norway is using them they are probably fine for most of the world especially if you have some old type electrical fan ones for the days it does get crazy cold. I also opted for lots of split systems instead of one connected large unit so if one breaks all the others still work. I'm in a hot climate so mine are used 90 percent for cooling. I've never seen these water based ones before and I'd expect the cost would be insane. We do have hot water system based ones in Australia that utilise heat pumps although not many people have them because they are quite expensive and from what I've heard more prone to failure than the simple kettle style ones which are cheap although cost a lot more In electricity.if you know the channel technology connections he has recently done a few good episodes on heat pumps, apparently they are very uncommon in the USA which surprised me as they have heat pump air conditioners but don't bother making them reverse cycle. In Australia they can pretty much all do both heat and cooling.
@fairyheli2
@fairyheli2 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I can just buy a mini split unit for around 1500, install it my self and keep gas for hot water and emergency heat. And you get Aircon in the summer as a bonus
@GR46404
@GR46404 2 жыл бұрын
@@jmi5969 I really don't know anything about this subject, but I have never seen ANYONE say "a warm country like Norway" before. Are you sure you meant Norway?
@condensatepro8533
@condensatepro8533 2 жыл бұрын
Great video !! Hope our insulation and Bond & Seal helped. Its our Primary Pro insulation which we have started to manufacture as ASHP Installers were using our Condensate Pro to protect their waste pipe from the HP to the drain. They asked us to make the same for the 28mm distribution pipework, so we just launched Primary Pro insulation. Making sure all the joints are sealed is an important part of the installation/efficiency. Our focus was to make the products UV & weatherproof out of the box, easy to fit in all weathers, look quality, and be simple to look after throughout the life of the HP /system. Videos like this are vital to get the message out that heat pumps work, and the common sense approach is needed to help end-customers understand what is needed. Heat loss calculations, survey. Good advice from the start. Quality specification/costing, so the end-customer understands. Installation with nothing missed or made cheap, that will affect the efficiency and life of the system . Commissioning to fine-tune every post . Hand over/customer understanding. Last but not least, annual services of the system to assure the very best efficiency. Keep up the good work and videos, and I hope more and more will do the same to show heat pumps will 100% play a part in fossil fuel reduction and quality energy efficiency.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
Hi and thank you for the comment. I find it hard find and to buy your product. What is the best supplier / website please?
@rhythm242able
@rhythm242able 2 жыл бұрын
Lol vested interest much?! Pahahaha and can't even get their wonderful product. Smh
@willis32
@willis32 2 жыл бұрын
The only downside to heat pumps is where I am theres a lot of stone walled buildings with awful insulation. The Emmitters need to be massive in them and it's just not practical. Thats no fault of the Heat Pump though
@johndoyle4723
@johndoyle4723 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, excellent video, I am a Chemical engineer and well used to piping,pumping,controls,heat transfer etc, but this is a very complicated install, well done. However no way in my house, not enough room left, already loads of room taken up by solar controls and home battery, and the radiators are huge. New builds are going to have to plan for a plant room for all the energy saving equipment.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
this install is actually much simpler than a typical gas boiler S or Y plan and takes the same amount of space internally. We just got used to the combi boiler that fits in a kitchen cupbarod. The mighty hot water cylinder is coming back.
@petercollins7848
@petercollins7848 2 жыл бұрын
@@UrbanPlumbers You must be kidding! It looks like it has been designed by NASA to launch rockets! And it must cost thousands, instead of a maximum of £2k to replace a boiler. Also you can hear the fans already on the recording, and the radiators are the ugliest things I have ever seen!
@locomotive1213
@locomotive1213 2 жыл бұрын
As i and my company already installed over 1500 running mashines over the course of the last 23 years i can say: They work, you just need to know what youre doing. But our system run at 35°C in and 28°C out temperatures so you need an under floor heating system or special radiatiors with fan support. with these radiators you dont need to plaster your living room wall with radiators. holy moly ... my customers would look at me and would ask if i have undiscovered psychological problems or something for even suggesting that.
@piccalillipit9211
@piccalillipit9211 2 жыл бұрын
*LITERALLY THE HOTTEST HOUSE* I have ever been in was in the UK in winter with a heat pump system. I was fixing some kitchen cabinets for a neighbour and honestly, I could not breathe, it was 32ºC, I think the woman must have had a medical condition - YES this was a new build and it was installed from new with the house. But anyone that says they don't work is talking BS. Maybe badly installed or cheap systems don't work. But that's NOT to say heat pumps don't work.
@locomotive1213
@locomotive1213 2 жыл бұрын
@@piccalillipit9211 if it was her or his wish ... halleluja ... our under floor heating is self regulating thru the first law of thermodynamics. As soon as the airtemp. Inside the house reaches the surface temp of the ground at around 23-24 °C, as ex. Thru the sun, Our system shuts itself off ... physicaly ... But if you wanna have a sauna we can make it one yes.
@piccalillipit9211
@piccalillipit9211 2 жыл бұрын
@@locomotive1213 - I only know it was a heat pump cos I asked why it was SO damn hot and she proudly told me it was a heat pump system - as if that in itself explained it. She showed me the equipment room where there were two MASSIVE tanks of water that were the heat reservoirs. They supplemented the ground source heating in the winter with heat extracted in the summer. I don't think a normal person would need these as a normal person does not live at literally tropical temperatures. I don't know anything about heat pump systems, but I know for sure the idea they dont work as a technology is rubbish. Maybe this system cost £50k - I dont know, but it sure as heck worked and at £3,000 a year for gas as many in the UK are now paying it does not look THAT expensive at £50k, especially on a new build.
@locomotive1213
@locomotive1213 2 жыл бұрын
@@piccalillipit9211 ah well ... i come from germany so i dont know the relation to the costs of other heating systems in GB... i just know you guys earn much more than we do. when i was in school, every teacher told us we get 3 times the money in GB. Our one family home system costs around 15.000€ for the heatpump system . gas heater systems as example are around 8.000-10.000€ but since the psycho german goverment forces us to use a specific amount of "renewable energy" when homes are newly build you have to install a solar or PV system in addition to that, so the total prices ends up way over 15.000€.
@piccalillipit9211
@piccalillipit9211 2 жыл бұрын
@@locomotive1213 - OH I dont know - I have not lived in the UK for a long time, but the wages seem pretty crappy to me over there now. I was a salesperson in 2002 on £65k a year and not the average is £32k in 2022... But they keep voting for a "conservative" government and they keep getting poorer - what can you do??? I pulled the figure £50k out of think air purely based on the fact it was a large £1 million pluss house NOT a normal house for normal people. Personally, I think €15k for a heating system is an appropriate amount of money if you get 25 years of life out of it and it is affordable to run. We are obsessed with everything being cheap cos we live in a disposable society. I make bespoke historical men's clothing. In 1930 a Singer sewing machine was nearly a year's wages. Today you can buy one new for €50 - but it will be in the landfill in 3 months. Professionals like me either buy the 1930's Singer or we spend €5,000 on a professional modern machine cos NOTHING domestic-made today will do the job... The point of my tangent is we have been trained to think of EVERYTHING as disposable - so people have a heart attack at the thought of a €15k heating system. Its €1.66 a day if it lasts 25 years... Oddly the same people will spend €50k on a car without batting an eyelid...
@paulruffy8389
@paulruffy8389 2 жыл бұрын
The main thing that needs upgrading in this country, it would seem, is the knowledge of our plumbers.
@Autonomegast
@Autonomegast 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Man, very good informative video's. A lot can be learned from them! I am a technician my self in Belgium and i am amazed how different you guys do the piping!
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
what do you guys do diffrent please?
@Autonomegast
@Autonomegast 2 жыл бұрын
I mean mostly the piping. We don't use copper for underneath the floor anymore, mostly only multi layered pipis, each pipe goes straight from the collector to a radiator. Thats bcs if there will be a leak, long term. Its mostly on the connections and nog underground. We use copper, but only in places we can see the piping. Like from the boiler to the collector.
@markbarrett2321
@markbarrett2321 2 жыл бұрын
I would suggest putting the volumiser just on the heating side rather than on the common side so the heat pump doesn't need to heat it up in dhw mode (probably a negligible waste of energy but still a waste), the heat pump should only defrost in heating mode anyway but if it was to do it in dhw mode there's plenty of energy without the extra volume, nice idea about the bypass for the coil if it was to vibrate.
@pnk2748
@pnk2748 Жыл бұрын
Amazing professionality, i usually build and construct everything myself but this is beyond my skills.
@bimtopia5230
@bimtopia5230 2 жыл бұрын
Roger point is that running cost of heat pump is more than Gas Boiler which is true. Because most people run their Heat pump below COP(Coefficient of performance) of 3. COP of Heat Pump should be above 3 if they are going to replace gas boilers and reduce utility bills. Achieving COP greater than 3 is very difficult if you are using Radiator with heat pump. COP depends on Temperature difference between supply water temperature and the outside Temperature. Heat pump are effective when the supply water is around 35ºC -40 ºC range , even outside temperature falls below -15 ºC. At this temperature range COP will always stay above 3. The solution is to use underfloor heating even for first floor to get the best out of Heat Pumps. Under floor heating can provide effective heating even when supply water is around 30ºC provided it is designed by professional. Those massive radiators take space specially in a Music room and look ugly and will struggle to heat the place up when outside temperature falls below -10ºC.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
running cost of gas is usually lower because gas is cheap as electricty is taxed more heavily than gas. This will have to change.
@johnthomas338
@johnthomas338 Жыл бұрын
If they had spent this money on as many solar panels as they could get on their roof, and 30kw/h of batteries, they would have a much better system. The insane amount of pipework and labour involved in this is just ridiculous.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers Жыл бұрын
They did. Solar panels and batteries were already in place before the heat pump installation. The system pay back with current energy prices is surprisingly short and saving quite substantial At the time we did not know what the energy market would do!
@coooooool12342
@coooooool12342 Жыл бұрын
@@UrbanPlumbers what’s the payback?
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers Жыл бұрын
@@coooooool12342 what's the payback on a new 20K kitchen? Or a new 20K car? Although this should be cheaper to run than gas and the system should last twice the time of an average gas boiler, it is not done for the payback. This technology saves energy as it uses up to 80% less energy than a gas boiler or direct electric heating and creates much less pollution. Your payback is cleaner air and less CO2 plus some money saved on bills. Obviously, there is a lot of badly installed air source (as there is loads of badly installed boilers) - on heat pumps problems are more pronounced and obvious though.
@rafaltomaszewski5175
@rafaltomaszewski5175 Жыл бұрын
Hi. Another great video and detailed explanation, I have a quick question, we came across each other before, my HP works brilliantly in wormer seasons, however in the winter it is in defrost mode quite often causing the radiators to cool quite quickly. Is there anything I can do? Rec pump is on all the time ( thermostat starts/stops it). Thanks in advance. Rafal
@777mjt
@777mjt 2 жыл бұрын
Love your channel, I tune in all the time, your passion and knowledge is second to none. Honestly you're a legend. However I'm a central heating repair specialist and the perfection required with heat pump systems worries me, also excites me too. It worries me because even with the correct doses of corrosion inhibitor, servicing and maintenance, these systems are going to sludge up but with far more dramatic results. For instance, I powerflush systems ALOT, like three flushes weekly minimum all year round. Small 6 to 8 rad systems running on 24kw combi boilers chucking out 80° flow temp, they still fail easily due to magnetite build up, valve failure, even with inhibitor in. Rads just stop working. With heat pumps I feel that the systems are so finely balanced and sized, that a few years in there's going to be a significant reduction in output and efficiency due to system corrosion, especially as large radiators are notorious for magnetite build up. These systems have big potential to fade away performance-wise and are owners really going to spend the extra money on a far tighter and more expensive maintenance schedule, maybe or maybe not? Keeping these systems in tip top shape is going to be significantly more costly than gas boiler systems overall which outweighs heat pump cost savings. I'm equally excited as this is going to create massive earning potential for my company, as installers tend to cut and run on this sort of thing, leaving problem solver engineers like me to make the repairs and perform regular maintenance. I don't mind picking up where installers left off, it's a very lucrative market fixing other plumbers problems! That boiler scrappage scheme and the scheme aimed at subsidising replacement boilers etc, many of those LTD companies chucked in replacement boilers willy nilly then folded once they'd exhausted the funding. Barely anyone those systems were flushed out and dosed correctly, just a mini primary water filter chucked on which five years down the line is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. This is definitely going to happen with the heat pump craze; bodgers are going to cash in. Anyway, think you're great and look forward to future videos 🙂
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
You have to remember that those systems operate at much lower temps and that means that the rate of corrosion is greatly reduced
@777mjt
@777mjt 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the reply. In theory Yes and I see Heat Geek also mention reduced temps = reduced corrosion, thermal shock etc, in their videos. All best case scenarios though, not particularly taking into consideration the widespread neglect of system maintenance in the UK. Time will tell, there's definitely going to be maintenance requirements further down the line which installers won't want to be bothered with, that's when I turn up with my thermal imagery & powerflushing equipment 😉
@777mjt
@777mjt 2 жыл бұрын
By the way, your pipework is amazing, your hands must be green from all that installation work, they don't get a break 😄
@AndrewHelgeCox
@AndrewHelgeCox 2 жыл бұрын
Have you got recordings of the external unit turning on and off? That’s when the aircon near my window makes the most annoying noises, not when in continuous operation. Also, have you got recordings of multiple units turning on and off after multiple years of operation?
@jameslewis875
@jameslewis875 2 жыл бұрын
they do make noise, especially on defrost change over
@brackcycle9056
@brackcycle9056 2 жыл бұрын
Would be good to see & hear different models in action ... visitors centres etc ? it has to vary between make & model , & newer models not old enough . . Seems to me even a low db noise can be annoying, but might not hear it if double glassing etc.
@videomandan26
@videomandan26 2 жыл бұрын
there's no way this system will fit in my new build house not to mention 35% of my patio will be gone and then i would need to protect this pump from my son kicking a ball
@lloydsadofsky8411
@lloydsadofsky8411 2 жыл бұрын
im so confused. im used to refrigerant straight to fan coil units. ive never seen refrigerant to water to radiators. does the heat pump boil the water or is it just hot water???
@lazerusmfh
@lazerusmfh 2 жыл бұрын
I have a heat pump system I installed myself. I have multiple heat pumps and multiple registers, wall and ceiling mount. It heats and cools excellent. I can cool my house when it’s 100f outside for a dollar or two a day depending on how much we’re home
@tapplumbandheat
@tapplumbandheat 2 жыл бұрын
Really appreciate the time you've taken to put this together. I'm scraping together the pennies to take the heat geek courses - ACS resits this year/van power steering failing/children... Knowledge always pays in the end. Thanks again.
@NezumiCo
@NezumiCo 2 жыл бұрын
I'm hoping the Gov will throw a large wad of money at it. Its going to need a combined effort - Insulation, Heat pumps etc, its too much for the average working person to shill out.
@jameslewis875
@jameslewis875 2 жыл бұрын
FYI there is an accredited heat pump training course just released by the CIPHE
@sip5574
@sip5574 2 жыл бұрын
@@jameslewis875 What’s the qualification called? If your thinking about the new CIPHE 2-day low temp heating design course then that is just a pre-requisite for the heat pump course (it’s replaced the energy efficiency course).
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
Heat geek is by far the best course out there and I have been to a lot of so called heat pump training courses. CIPHE have new low temperature heating course. I have seen the book for it. Let’s see if it’s any good.
@tapplumbandheat
@tapplumbandheat 2 жыл бұрын
@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks. It has to be challenging to be worth anything. I'm just a little worried whether challenging will be 'recognised' as better or whether a course of training taking a minimum AM unt of time and effort will be 'enough'. Either way, if I am fitting low temp heating I want to be confident that I understand the many variables as best I can.
@xxwookey
@xxwookey 2 жыл бұрын
Looks like these people should have put some insulation in too and saved a bit on the fairly epic install. And 22mm copper to the kitchen taps? Doesn't that mean a long wait for some warm water to turn up? Interesting to see the UFH just being inlined with the rest. I was hoping to do that but not done the sums yet to check the flow rates. Nice explanation of what you've done here. Oh and I was just admiring that nice set of bends before you mentioned it. Always a sign of quality work :-)
@markholmes5695
@markholmes5695 2 жыл бұрын
I’ve an ASHP. Water heated to 35 deg into our underfloor heating. Hot water for DHW set at 45 cause that’s what we like shower at. Total electricity cost for year (space heating, water heating , light, appliances etc) €1500. Far cheaper than our old house with oil. Insulation is key. No point fitting these systems to old houses that aren’t sufficiently insulated
@carlfoster9408
@carlfoster9408 Жыл бұрын
lucky you, our electric costs are more like £5,000 for the year, with this very Heat pump installed into a new build house all callcs done for the RHI grant. very efficient and cheap in the summer months but seems very expensive in the winter, maybe more efficient compared to gas but with gas being cheaper per KWH than electric makes it a very expensive way of heating our house.
@hansmuller1625
@hansmuller1625 2 жыл бұрын
Having worked with heat pumps since 2005, here are some reasons they don't work; Insufficient radiator surface area. Since heat pumps cannot supply 80 degrees C like an oil or gas burner can, you need larger radiators. If you replace a burner of some sort and if the chimney runs through the house that heat is lost. Need to be accounted for. There is a lot of cheap junk on the market. Don't buy it. A heat pump is not a heat pump. Improper commissioning. Care must be taken to adjust flows and temperatures correctly.
@alerighi
@alerighi 2 жыл бұрын
If you run your radiator at 80C, you have very bad efficiency even with a gas boiler, since condensing boilers operates more efficiently at lower temperatures. To increase the surface area you can simply install fan coils, in reality heat pumps make sense with underfloor heating, fancoils and forced mechanical ventilation with heat recovery. Also using radiators or only underfloor heating with heat pumps is stupid since you can only use it in heating mode, you can't use it for air conditioning at all.
@mikecole4952
@mikecole4952 2 жыл бұрын
Szymon its great to see your knowledge expanding since that 3/4 story house you did. Did you sort you MCS out in the end or is it through Heatgeeks? I've fitted quite a few heatpump now and even with gas boilers, everyday is learning and evolving to be a better engineer. We have a vast industry of 'engineers' that can't even pipe an s plan!
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
yes its through heat geek. I do not even have time to quote for jobs at the moment so MCS is really a no go for me.
@MrRawMonkey
@MrRawMonkey 2 жыл бұрын
This reminds me why I don’t want one.
@seanmann863
@seanmann863 2 жыл бұрын
I love the 4 bends at the bottom connection, nice work. Here in the USA, they only do forced hot air with the ductless splits.
@toddbod94
@toddbod94 2 жыл бұрын
Which is the better way to use them. They don’t heat water anywhere near hot enough to actually be a viable solution for most uses.
@davidmezei8527
@davidmezei8527 2 жыл бұрын
It's also an option to use fan coil units. They are smaller in size and supports lower flow temparature. There are ones designed for home usage. Ex. parapet fan coils Con: they make some noise Pro: they can heat and cool you home too (condensate piping must be installed if it's used in cooling mode)
@britexpat_l33t
@britexpat_l33t 2 жыл бұрын
They’re called ‘air handlers’ in the US, It’s ridiculous what the UK is doing installing these gigantic monstrosities rather than simply installing air handlers.
@adrianthoroughgood1191
@adrianthoroughgood1191 2 жыл бұрын
@@britexpat_l33t people in the UK are used to their heating being silent in the room. We're not used to fan noise as we don't have air-con.
@britexpat_l33t
@britexpat_l33t 2 жыл бұрын
@@adrianthoroughgood1191 Given I’ve 30+ years of living in Britain, I’m pretty confident I’m aware how homes are heated. I further know that radiators make noises, and so does the combo boiler. I’ve had radiators in my British home and the central system makes noise. It’s not completely quiet. Air handler splits are just as quiet as radiators, and offer exceptional heating & cooling benefits.
@danielcarroll3358
@danielcarroll3358 2 жыл бұрын
I'm in California. My architect was originally planning on hydronic heating, as shown here. When the builders got involved it ended up being a fan coil unit in the attic with ducts to the second floor (or first floor :) ) rooms. Since the house was built with large sliding doors, a thing in 1903, there was a thick double studded wall. A duct was run inside that wall down two floors to the crawl space under the ground floor, and from there to the ground floor rooms. The upper floor and ground floor are separate zones. Since if one one gets rid of gas service one can't get it back, I kept a gas clothes dryer. Everything else is now electric: induction cooktop, heat pump water heater, etc. And solar of course. Because of Covid and supply chain problems it took almost two years to finish. Relief...
@ChrisLee-yr7tz
@ChrisLee-yr7tz 2 жыл бұрын
10:00 You've got to be kidding me!! They're awful. To help us out with the debate can you give us some figures please? What was the total cost of the install? Edit: I saw 20k on another comment. What CoP are they achieving? Pre & post gas/elec kWh? Really need some real world numbers for this.
@keyserxx
@keyserxx 2 жыл бұрын
What debate?
@ChrisLee-yr7tz
@ChrisLee-yr7tz 2 жыл бұрын
@@keyserxx Heat pumps...
@satsa6569
@satsa6569 2 жыл бұрын
Great vid. I wish that you had said something about how this house, looks like a traditional Victorian, was insulated. I believe that this is where the system succeeds or fails.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
1870 house, roof 100mm insulation. That’s it.
@satsa6569
@satsa6569 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for replying!
@britexpat_l33t
@britexpat_l33t 2 жыл бұрын
@@UrbanPlumbers then why on earth are these systems being installed without insulation being prior taken care of?!?
@effervescence5664
@effervescence5664 2 жыл бұрын
@@britexpat_l33t 1870s house, good chance inside and outside is listed so they probably couldn't insulate the walls, only floor void and roof. Then relying on the thickness of the walls as thermal mass and high enough R value to cope. Not ideal but unfortunately this is one of the stumbling points of much of the UK housing stock. Solid wall terraced houses which can't have outside insulation fitted or internal due to room size limitations or listed/ conservation status, and those that have had insulation fitted if not fitted with a vapour barrier have bricks that basically start turning back to clay in some cases.
@theangrydweller1002
@theangrydweller1002 2 жыл бұрын
I just got a job with my uncles company installing heat pumps and am wanting to learn as much as I can. Will definitely sub. Iv never used any copper pipe that wasn’t line set so that was definitely interesting to see
@radfoo
@radfoo 2 жыл бұрын
Great video, thanks. I have been reading up on those heat pumps that are split, seems to make the outdoor unit much smaller and smaller air-con type pipes into the house, seems like a nicer setup but a guess you need different skill for the aircon gas stuf which would complicate things? From what I have seen from Rogers videos he is mostly in agreement with you guys, just video spun a different way.
@warrensummerfield1
@warrensummerfield1 2 жыл бұрын
Very informative, feels like we’re going back in time having a room dominated by huge radiators…
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
why do people hate big rads? I love them!
@SardiPax
@SardiPax 2 жыл бұрын
@@UrbanPlumbers Can't do much else with a wall covered in radiator. Can't put a shelf there, a cupboard a picture, wouldn't necessarily even want to put a chair in front of it. Probably fine for people with giant mansions but for the average, tiny UK home it's ridiculous. I'd like to see a domestic install of a High Temp Heat Pump (yes I know they are not as efficient but still more so than a simple immersion heater).
@stevenleighton1947
@stevenleighton1947 2 жыл бұрын
@@SardiPax many years ago when I was an adobe builder in New Mexico I built large vertical radiators into the walls of some homes to give out heat to spaces both sides of the wall. Built in rather than hung on is a possible solution. This is where joined up thinking between home designers, home builders and specialised trades ought to come together. I first saw the heat both sides concept used in Quarry Hill flats in Leeds. They were built in the 1930's. They also had a waste disposal system that carried organic waste from the sink to a large communal boiler to be burnt to heat water. In eastern Europe power Stations don't have cooling towers they send the hot water to heat apartments and other buildings or to aid industrial processes. A lot of good ideas lost to make individual houses more profitable for the builder.
@gegwen7440
@gegwen7440 2 жыл бұрын
What a great team you two make, quick / knowledgeable / craftsmanship at every turn.
@MegaBambooboy
@MegaBambooboy 2 жыл бұрын
Vattenfall claim to have produced a high temperature heat pump that could directly replace a modern gas boiler, I'm a tad skeptical as the amount of work the compressors would do to achieve 80degrees would decrease the efficiency, but I'll be taking a trip to the Netherlands later in the year to see it first hand. Here's hoping.
@raysilver2b
@raysilver2b 2 жыл бұрын
The best to use a heat pump with under or infloor heating. Underfloor heating typically uses water at 37/40 deg C . It takes more energy to raise water to 70C, or the new 55C, raiditor temp, than 37C, floor heating temp. Which means either a major renovation or new builds. Because of the cost it's probably better to finance it in the original mortgage, so new build.
@quadcopter
@quadcopter 2 жыл бұрын
Or just get an air-air unit. It is a wall mounted box that blows hot air. Any use of liquid heat transfer will blow up the cost.
@paulhockett1545
@paulhockett1545 2 жыл бұрын
Roger all the way. I feel sorry for the customers you’ve got to remember that’s there house not an industrial unit ugly radiators and ugly ashp. Once the demand for electricity goes up the so will the price with electric cars and so on. It’s easy to lower your bills just buy a jumper and turn your heating down a bit and save the planet and money. Not rocket science.
@mensor
@mensor 2 жыл бұрын
Good luck telling elderly relatives to just buy a jumper and 'man up'. FFS.
@lapisredux
@lapisredux 2 жыл бұрын
@@mensor good luck paying their fuel bill when they run out of cash.
@chatteyj
@chatteyj 2 жыл бұрын
@@lapisredux I know lol its like when the news says people are choosing between heating and eating and I'm like really lol? Are they? If you don't eat you die don't you?
@DavidMartin-ym2te
@DavidMartin-ym2te Жыл бұрын
@@mensor Foolish sound bite remark. CH was almost unknown in the 60s and 70s - why is it the go-to thing now? Consider - who benefits from the colossal cost of this system?
@kjeldschouten-lebbing6260
@kjeldschouten-lebbing6260 Жыл бұрын
When doing larger pulls, get into good graces with your local handyman. Often they are totally okey with helping out with those annoying parts once in a while and often they also have good connections if you need some specialty work done as well :)
@cooliocrib4409
@cooliocrib4409 2 жыл бұрын
I have a question for the experts. My current 24kw combi boiler is set to 58 deg c. We are very satisfied with the room temperatures after an hour of the CH being turned on. Does this mean there is a good chance we can get away with just a ASHP and the rads and pipework are OK? Its currently 22mm pipework
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
it depends on the property heat loss. If you set your flow on the boiler to 60 and you are acheiveing 21 inside when it is -2 outside then you may be close with the radiator sizes. Pipework will depend on the heat loss though. How big is your property in m2 and when was it built? Is 24kW a combi boiler?
@cooliocrib4409
@cooliocrib4409 2 жыл бұрын
@@UrbanPlumbers yes its valiant ecotec combi 24kw or 22kw not sure. Its a 4 bedroom 1930s build. There's no cavity wall but we now have triple glazed windows which made a big difference. Just done a edit the boiler temp is set to 58deg and I'm sure it could be set lower and run for longer. We usually turn heating on just 2 or 3 hours at a time 2 or 3 times a day when its 0 degrees outside. The inside is never 21deg its 19 deg which we actually like.. im actually in London
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
@@cooliocrib4409 4 bed with triple glazing and roof insulation should be below 10kW heat loss. Althogh heat pump may work on your current radiators it would not be very efficienct to run it like that. The bigger the radiaotrs the lower flow temperature required and higher efficeincy. There is no running away from large rads, unless you install UFH or have a very well insulated house. The fact that you can drop flow to 58 when it is 0 outside means that heat pump would work fine in your property, but you may still have to upgrade pipework (usually just primary piepwork), install new hot water cylinder and change some radiators or move them around, etc.
@cooliocrib4409
@cooliocrib4409 2 жыл бұрын
@@UrbanPlumbers i remember watching a video some months back. You are in London right? How far is NW4 from you?
@iangelling
@iangelling 2 жыл бұрын
I’ve been attracted to this idea but it is too complex, regardless of system design. Even OP had to correct himself with return this and that, valve this and that. I bet it does work well but it still has an immersion heater. And these guys are experts. I’m not going to be an early adopter. I’m leaning to the Roger view for the time being. ROI doesn’t seem to be reasonable.
@jonathanrose456
@jonathanrose456 2 жыл бұрын
Heat pumps are designed to capture the additional air temperature from outside… great during the summer months if you have a pool. Expensive during the winter months (when you need it most) unless you have a solar or economy 7 solution in place. ThermalPV & localised phase change storage is a much better solution for most domestic properties… & cheaper!
@carlosgaspar8447
@carlosgaspar8447 2 жыл бұрын
it's an industry that will reap the rewards of government subsidies; whether it's affordable or not.
@PKWeaver74
@PKWeaver74 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, forget the planet we just want to see return on investment amiright?
@iangelling
@iangelling 2 жыл бұрын
@@PKWeaver74 no you’re not right. Cutting down on energy usage helps the planet. My focus is on making my house more energy efficient. New windows, additional insulation, having everything serviced regularly, just a few initiatives. I’m even considering panels as we have a south facing roof. But something that costs too much and still needs old tech to ensure hot water is not something that I’m going to adopt until the tech improves. I hope I haven’t pulled the rug on your smart arrested comment but hey, some of us think in more than sound bites😅
@PKWeaver74
@PKWeaver74 2 жыл бұрын
@@iangelling No, you haven't. I'm in the same boat as you, doing exactly the same thing but we still need pioneers who can afford to be the early adopters on principle, then economies of scale can reduce prices. I'm not opposed to what you said, just throwing one of my sound bite thoughts out there to agitate for a response 😉
@ShahedAhmed-er4ih
@ShahedAhmed-er4ih 2 жыл бұрын
Amazing video, it would be nice if you could give us a ballpark figure of how much this installation cost, materials and labour. No need to break it down but just so we can gauge how much it cost to install a ASHP. Really nice to see the Heat Geek Assure programe already up and live 👍🏼
@PooAAAA
@PooAAAA 2 жыл бұрын
10-15k
@spencerwilton5831
@spencerwilton5831 2 жыл бұрын
@@PooAAAA you’re having a laugh! That would barely cover materials!
@gunsey876
@gunsey876 2 жыл бұрын
This would be an expensive example of a heat pump installation, with the cylinder in the cellar there’s a lot of extra labour involved and a £700 prv pump
@effervescence5664
@effervescence5664 2 жыл бұрын
The heat pump alone looks to be a Grant Aerona32 10kw model, the tank, pipework, llh, controls, prv pump, insulation, radiators; £4,000 £1200 Unknown amount of pipework but allow at least £1000 £500 £500 £800 prv pump £1000 pipe insulation £2000 (12x radiators) £1000 radiator valves (estimated) Total materials £11,000 + London labour cost for potentially a week 2 people x 5 days £4000 or there about. Total estimated cost £18,000 Inc VAT
@ChrisLee-yr7tz
@ChrisLee-yr7tz 2 жыл бұрын
@@effervescence5664 In other words, fk that. It's really starting to p1ss me off how any videos showing ASHPs don't go through the economics. How can anyone have the debate if we don't know the facts. Need to know installation cost, pre and post running costs, maintenance costs and expected lifetime.
@Traumahawk007
@Traumahawk007 2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting, another great video. I think where Roger is coming from is that he isn’t against HP’s but in reality there is too much work and cost involved in installation in existing properties unless there is a major renovation going on. The cost implications for ripping up floors, re-piping, finding the space for new emitters & cylinders where most had removed for combi’s. Without doubt they should be compulsory in new builds, the government would be better off offering insulation grants, ensuring that installers do correct heat calculations and perhaps offering the best boilers such as new Intergas with flue recovery etc.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
There is only so far you can go with gas efficiency! Why not burn gas at a power station instead and get scop of 4 for heating? All houses used to have hot water cylinders and original central heating installation must have also costed a fortune. I wonder if people were saying that CH was to expensive to install and that they will stick to their coal heaters or fireplaces?
@Traumahawk007
@Traumahawk007 2 жыл бұрын
Agree but this has to be progressive, what is your opinion on air blown 2 way HP’s that also can be used to cool possibly easier to install. I think this what North American market is using.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
@@Traumahawk007 you can't heat water with those. Apart for that I have no real knoweldege of air to air vs air to water comparison. Would be good to know.
@Traumahawk007
@Traumahawk007 2 жыл бұрын
I guess off peak electric or solar/battery for water. Have a look at this channel. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bbBlZdB1z8DepKM.html
@RobinI92
@RobinI92 2 жыл бұрын
@@Traumahawk007 air to air heatpumps can be a good suplimemt to lower the need for central heating but it can never give as even heating as a water based system. But could be a good way to use less gas for central heating i would thou recoment to avoid those with two indors units cause often the have same capacity as the cheaper one indoor unit ones. The best way for air to air to work good is to have one air/air per level in the house :)
@meanredspider
@meanredspider 2 жыл бұрын
Fab video - lovely job and certainly helped me understand the requirements of an ASHP install. That’s a big house with a 17kW unit which is possibly part of the reason for some of the excitement in comments. Love the digs at Roger - he talks a lot of nonsense in this space - I wish he’d stuck to the helpful How To stuff.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
bashing heat pumps gets him too many views. He is a KZfaq Nigel Farage of heat pumps.
@rjy8960
@rjy8960 2 жыл бұрын
Wow! I'm impressed. I didn't know there was so much design involved in these systems. I have three air to air hear pumps at home and mainly bought them for cooling during the summer months but will give a good level of heating during the winter. For now I'm keeping the combi boiler as the main source of heat but with gas and electricity going up in price I'm really unsure which will be the most economic source of heat. One is 3.3kW in the lounge and the other two in my office and bedroom are 2.5kW. I guess I need to check consumption next winter and compare.
@tlaroche38
@tlaroche38 2 жыл бұрын
Depends on your climate, if the majority of the winter is close to or above freezing, heat pumps will likely be cheaper. As you get past around -5c to -10c, your combi may start to be cheaper.. but then it also depends heavily on gas/electric prices! Also, not sure why in the UK air to air is so rare, considering how much more efficient it can be and how much simpler the installation process is I mean, I managed to install one in a freind's clubhouse in just a couple of hours, only a couple steps were easier with two people but in that situation absolutely could've been done with one person. Also depends what refrigerant your heat pumps use, R32 seems to deliver more heat in lower temps compared to the performance of R410a, but thats just from experience so don't take my word on that! If they're also inverter they'll perform much better than single speed units
@rjy8960
@rjy8960 2 жыл бұрын
@@tlaroche38 Thank you! So many different factors to take into account. I think I need to get energy metering installed and then do a couple of weekly runs in the winter comparing the air to air and combi system for heating. Prices are totally in the air and that is the main thing. We are talking about a chaotic system. Now we are approaching summer I'm more concerned about costs of cooling the house. The refrigerant is R32. I think the push is for replacing all forms of gas heating in the UK - I personally don't think it is practical and I for one will not be giving up my combi. Thanks again :)
@tlaroche38
@tlaroche38 2 жыл бұрын
@@rjy8960 Another potentially easier solution, is to calculate your break even COP and look at the minimum temperature that your systems can achieve this In my situation, gas is 7.48p per kWh, and electric is 28.46p per kWh So to calculate, divide your gas price (7.48) by your boilers efficiency (in my case 90% or .9) to get your *true* price per kWh of heat delivered, in my case this is 8.31p Next, take your price of electricity (mine is 28.46p/kWh) and divide by your true p/kWh from your boiler, so 28.46/8.61 which gives the break even COP for my system at 3.3, or 330% efficiency Then use that COP and check with the heat pump's data sheets to see the temps that this is achieved, annoyingly I don't have access to the data sheet for my system so can't tell you the exact figure, but I know the system normally achieves a COP between 3.6 and 4 so 3.3 *should* be achievable in most conditions So formula is: Electricity cost ÷ (gas price ÷ boiler efficiency) = break even COP Sorry that this is so rambly haha but hopefully some useful info!! Might be easier than tracking energy usage depending on what info you have available Edit: also, it's totally possible to replace all gas heating with heat pumps at the moment, but the government needs to stop dragging their heels and take some propper action, as with current electricity prices and installation costs, it's unlikely that a homeowner with a functioning gas boiler will see the installation costs of a heat pump returned within the equipment lifespan which really should not be the case but hey ho, that's a whole different discussion 🤣 like anything there's so much nuance and factors to consider which I doubt the government have looked into, evident in the fact I believe you only get the subsidy for installation costs for air to water or ground to water systems, not far cheaper air to air systems I think we basically have the same setup except my heat pump system is a 3 head multi with a combi boiler for hot water as opposed to 3 separate systems
@deanholloway7755
@deanholloway7755 2 жыл бұрын
My house isn't small but I would need to buy next doors house to fit the plant and pipes for a system such as this. It all makes so much sense now 🤣🤣🤣
@rickmartin626
@rickmartin626 2 жыл бұрын
If there’s ever a video to prove heat pumps are beyond most peoples means, this is it. Just stay active (if you can)and wear more!😂
@petercollins7848
@petercollins7848 2 жыл бұрын
I can just see all that equipment fitting into my one bedroom flat. There is only one problem though, I wouldn’t fit into it afterwards! 😩
@anonymous..-
@anonymous..- Жыл бұрын
I run a hybrid heat pump and it’s awesome! I have gas as the backup heat when the temps get too low. Heat pumps don’t dry the air out which is nice.
@s3tione
@s3tione 2 жыл бұрын
I didn't even know heat pumps were used to heat water and thereby heat a home. In Canada, I have only ever seen them used to push warm or cold air either from wall mounted units or from a central air unit. Interesting to see how tech is used in different parts of the world.
@De4thHunter117
@De4thHunter117 2 жыл бұрын
It's just that there are different types of heat pumps: air-to-air (what you meant), air-to-water, water-to-water (geothermal)
@nhilistickomrad4259
@nhilistickomrad4259 2 жыл бұрын
@@Grauenwolf it is kind of a thing. Actually it'll involve cooling the walls and ceilings too. But the great risk of meeting dew point and wall condensation effs it's popularity. Although used it's use is made only for very hot places and especially not to cool drastically or achieve frigid temps just to make it comfortable for westerners.
@alimack5489
@alimack5489 2 жыл бұрын
Love seeing a quality install, however I still have my gripes there’s no way combi slingers will install them to this standard which is a shame!
@patrickwheeler2646
@patrickwheeler2646 2 жыл бұрын
For sure, the industry had had it too easy for the last 20 years.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
Yep, that’s the uphill struggle we face now. Heat geek to the rescue?
@TheConnorboii
@TheConnorboii 2 жыл бұрын
Honestly agree Combis are incredibly easy to fit I wouldnt have a clue with these systems
@griffithsheating
@griffithsheating 2 жыл бұрын
You just wait until the likes of boxt start flogging heat pumps and get the home owners to do their own survey and then pay their combi slingers £750 to fit them 🙈
@alimack5489
@alimack5489 2 жыл бұрын
@@griffithsheating your absolutely right there!
@bryanporter3025
@bryanporter3025 2 жыл бұрын
Nice install.........BUT what was the total cost of the installation?
@martinryder6910
@martinryder6910 2 жыл бұрын
£15 - 20K
@rich7447
@rich7447 Жыл бұрын
A 5 ton/17 kW system seems pretty large for the size of the home. We have a total of 8 tons (forced air system) for 4,600 square feet above grade and a 2,800 square foot basement. I'm in Maryland USA and we see yearly temperatures between -18C/0F and 38C/100F. Average around 60% humidity, but can get much higher in summer.
@wolfgangpreier9160
@wolfgangpreier9160 Жыл бұрын
I use a 8kW Daikin for 300 Square meters in the middle of Europe and its perfectly enough for us. Maybe this winter we have to help it with our old wood heater. We'll see.
@alperenalperen2458
@alperenalperen2458 Жыл бұрын
@@wolfgangpreier9160 300m2 seems awfully large for 8kW. How is the weather there and how is your isolation?
@wolfgangpreier9160
@wolfgangpreier9160 Жыл бұрын
@@alperenalperen2458 Middle European, currently very wet and about 10 Celsius, no isolation 39 centimeters of brick all around. Free standing in a North-South Valley. We have the most sunshine in the whole country. But its only moderate warm and cold throughout the year. No special roof insulation. 19-20 degrees in all rooms with old radiators from the 1980s. And warm water for 3 persons. Of course the heatpump has to work. About 18.000kWh a year. In gas that would be 45.000kWh. And in wood + solar heater it was about 60.000kWh because of a very old inefficient wood boiler. Of course wood would still be the cheapest form of energy but it also takes much work.
@pauljermyn5909
@pauljermyn5909 2 жыл бұрын
The problem is as you said, electrical system needs upgrading, pipework needs upgrading, new radiators, installers need to be very competent because if any small bit isn't done correctly it won't work, it's expensive, it needs monitoring regularly, a low paid worker in an ex council flat in liverpool just cant afford this.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
Flats should go on communal heating systems - it will make the cost and maintenance affordable.
@johncaufield760
@johncaufield760 Жыл бұрын
I suspect that you are the best heating engineers. Most others would be a nightmare. Going from combi boilers to this is a giant step.
@foppo100
@foppo100 Жыл бұрын
Many won't be able to do this.Not in the UK anyway.
@rc-fannl7364
@rc-fannl7364 Жыл бұрын
@@foppo100 Problem is that there will be a considerable amount of people willing to play being an expert, and when the bill is paid and the system doesn't live up to its promise, they are long gone. Same happened years ago with companies installing plastic door frames, windows, etc. On the surface it looked like a job well done, until you find the installation flaws, that end up costing you even more in the end.
@dudeatx
@dudeatx 2 жыл бұрын
So they cost a fortune to install, generate relatively little heat, need highly skilled fitters (good luck in UK) and need more pipework than a power station. But, hey, they "work".
@zoidberg444
@zoidberg444 2 жыл бұрын
I'd be highly doubtful they actually have significant carbon reductions given the carbon emissions associated with actually manufacturing everything required and installing it and then probably having a shorter life span than a gas boiler.
@jasonaris5316
@jasonaris5316 2 жыл бұрын
@@zoidberg444 I beginning to suspect it’s more about reducing actual energy usage than any carbon reducing measures (as good chunk of electricity is gas generated anyway and that is not changing anytime soon)
@martinconnelly1473
@martinconnelly1473 2 жыл бұрын
@@jasonaris5316 I have replaced my gas heater system with a heat pump and my annual kWh usage has halved. The current increases in gas prices mean that my annual gas bill has gone up by £8 per year as I only use it for a gas hob now. My electricity bill is going up but only about 20% compared to the horror stories about the increase cost for gas fuelled heating systems. I went for a heat pump as I did not have radiators installed and the cost and disruption associated with fitting a radiator system was something I wanted to avoid. I have an air to air system that supplies ducted air around the house and can be used to heat, dry and cool the air.
@jasonaris5316
@jasonaris5316 2 жыл бұрын
@@martinconnelly1473 we are not allowed air to air systems here in the U.K. (as they don’t want additional air con being run in the summer) it’s all about energy use reduction
@WARLEOD
@WARLEOD 2 жыл бұрын
@@zoidberg444 I dont understand this love for gas heating? Have you never walked down a street and smelled leaking gas? It is everywhere.
@tonywebb9909
@tonywebb9909 2 жыл бұрын
Great video, it comes down to radiator volume, insulation and simply pump/control dynamics for success. Suits UFH more.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
Of course, ufh allows for lower temps and very high scop
@steveearley8352
@steveearley8352 2 жыл бұрын
I do wish you where up in Cheshire. Really do appreciate how methodical and tidy your work is as I’d sign you up in a shot to have reviewed our needs.
@13run
@13run 2 жыл бұрын
Nice installation Would people want so big radiators in their rooms?
@cooliocrib4409
@cooliocrib4409 2 жыл бұрын
Hey. I love your vids, but you didn't address the elephant in the room. How much did the customer pay for 28mm pipes and all of the oversized rads? To heat the same house, whats the cost for heatpump vs condensed boiler?
@DerrickJolicoeur
@DerrickJolicoeur 2 жыл бұрын
And now I understand why heat pumps cost more over the pond. When I think of a central heat pump, it's always air-to-air. Not air-to-water
@edward0149
@edward0149 8 ай бұрын
Hi. Just wondering what is the power usage of a heat pump. Is a 10 kw unit using 10 kw per hour .Or is there a way to compare oil burner as an 1 gallon jet per hour. And as with oil were i can put it on for 2 hours or do you have to leave a heat pump on all the time and let the stats cut in and out
@BenIsInSweden
@BenIsInSweden 8 ай бұрын
no, heat pumps are rated by heat output, not by electrical input, you can check the spec sheet of the unit, and either it'll show the max wattage or amps - either as a max rating or fuse size (which you can multiply by voltage to get watts)... As a rule of thumb the max draw is about 50% of the rated heat output, however, this isn't what the heat pump will be running at most of the time, and that will be lower when set up correctly. Even with an oil boiler you are (in most cases) using more oil having it running for 2 hours a day only vs having it trickle heat in at a lower flow temperature, with a heat pump that saving is even more pronounced. Heat pumps don't use a thermostat in the typical fashion - as they make it more inefficient, instead they are set up with weather compensation - like a gas boiler (and probably oil boiler) can. Where it adjusts the flow temperature based on the outside temperature to target a set indoors temperature. That isn't to say you can't use it in a way that is controlled by a thermostat, you totally can, but generally it's going to work out more expensive, unless your house is completely vacant most of the time.
@britexpat_l33t
@britexpat_l33t 2 жыл бұрын
This seems absolutely insane. Why are homes simply not putting in air handlers - which would do heating AND cooling! - rather than these gigantic radiators? Absolutely insane.
@dorsetengineering
@dorsetengineering 2 жыл бұрын
No grant availabe for devices that can also cool, so air-air mini splits are out (if you want the grant to push the prices you'd pay up by 4-5x :D )
@britexpat_l33t
@britexpat_l33t 2 жыл бұрын
@@dorsetengineering I don’t understand your comment re the grant? An air handler is no more than £500, so why wouldn’t homeowners be installing them in combination with the heatpump? Purely powering radiators alone seems ridiculous.
@dorsetengineering
@dorsetengineering 2 жыл бұрын
@@britexpat_l33t ah, you mean what we call fan coil units, gotcha. People think back to the ducted air heating from the 60s and compare it to that I guess? We never got it right over here and the industry went with radiators.
@antonrudenham3259
@antonrudenham3259 2 жыл бұрын
This reminds me of living in a Steam Punk world, it's completely unfeasible for anyone on less than 3 digit salaries plus where would all the pipework,pumps,valves,air unit, storage tanks, thermostats and massive radiators go? I'm a Marine engineer and there's just no way I'm turning my house into a boiler room. Thanks but I'll stick to burning tyres on my coal fire!😁
@kaasmeester5903
@kaasmeester5903 2 жыл бұрын
Remember the movie Brazil? Central Services have nothing on this guy... I've no idea either how most people will afford this. The promise (here in NL) is that we'll be able to get special loans or mortgages to greenify our homes, and that the cost of those loans are easily offset by the savings on the heating bill. But that €10k outdoor unit will have to be replaced in 10 years...
@Scuba72Chris
@Scuba72Chris 2 жыл бұрын
@@kaasmeester5903 Exactly! I can't believe the amount of ancillary equipment you need for one of these heat pumps. No wonder they're ruinously expensive.
@heatpump8566
@heatpump8566 2 жыл бұрын
Very professional job. Great that you are dispelling myths that heat pumps don’t work. Roger the bodger should watch this video and see that they do work !
@ChrisLee-yr7tz
@ChrisLee-yr7tz 2 жыл бұрын
Depends what you mean by 'work'. Clearly any system that requires x kWh for the house and hot water can be designed. The real question is whether it's cost effective to fit, to run and to maintain. We have nothing on these questions and those rads look awful.
@TurinTuramber
@TurinTuramber 2 жыл бұрын
Roger didn't say they never ever work. The issues he raised as also raised by this guy.
@andymav3023
@andymav3023 2 жыл бұрын
I just find all the equipment associated with heat pumps so bulky, so many homes just don’t have the space sadly
@Shandybrother
@Shandybrother 2 жыл бұрын
I dread to think how much this install cost.
@martinryder6910
@martinryder6910 2 жыл бұрын
He mentioned in his comments previously £15 - £20K
@yensabi
@yensabi 2 жыл бұрын
Nice job but.... Not many people would have the kind of money to install a system like that and you had the benefit of a cellar to get most of the installation in and there's a lot of pipework involved and a lot of houses don't have cellars... ! Also not many folk would want radiators the size of icebergs hanging off the walls in their homes and it's always difficult to explain to people why there radiators are only getting Luke warm when they are used to having them boiling hot almost.... ! I think the best route to take would be insulating the house by fitting new windows and doors and insulating under floors and roof space etc and if done correctly will be a good investment , I believe the heat pump market will be very small for a long long time due to lots off different reasons some of which I've stated above and the more easier and most economical way ahead will be the Hydrogen boiler which I believe will be the way ahead in the future but it to has its faults and gremlins that will need to be ironed out before it becomes the next go to product for heating our homes... Keep up the good work Simon and I'm looking forward to your next one 👍
@scottpenman296
@scottpenman296 2 жыл бұрын
Just out of curiosity can I ask total cost of materials without labour on that 1 install please ?
@martinshemmo256
@martinshemmo256 2 жыл бұрын
Nope, it's a secret, everybody is asking it 🤣 But rough guess around 25k and probably same running cost as previous has system
@LC-qi5ff
@LC-qi5ff 2 жыл бұрын
What type of refrigerant did you use? Thanks
@patrickwheeler2646
@patrickwheeler2646 2 жыл бұрын
The Grant unit is R32 so pretty good but not the best, the new R290 is almost no environmental impact.
@LondonGas
@LondonGas 2 жыл бұрын
As ever, an excellent video Szymon. Well explained, a great install, really professional. It's strange seeing a job I've seen in real life on KZfaq. Thanks for showing me around.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Gary. It was a pleasure to meet you and hopefully we can do some project together soon.
@LondonGas
@LondonGas 2 жыл бұрын
@Urban Plumbers I look forward to it 🖖
@batmangoddam5999
@batmangoddam5999 2 жыл бұрын
Great content , really enjoyed and showed how a correct design can work , but the cost must be a crazy amount . Insulating the floor , all the pipework , and other material . I’m for but believe cost will be to much .
@johnbrewer9833
@johnbrewer9833 2 жыл бұрын
Astonishing amounts of pipework. I guess we will have to harden up and realise that this system is way out of reach for pensioners and others on low salaries.
@barryamorris
@barryamorris Жыл бұрын
If you run the closed loop at 48 degrees, how do you stop the system from turning to sludge due to bacterial growth?
@GeoFry3
@GeoFry3 2 жыл бұрын
There is a KZfaqr that built a solar array to power his mini-split. He set it up to use the panels in the winter as a hot box to help the heatpump heat more effectively.
@lewisjones5067
@lewisjones5067 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent install and attention to detail but isn’t the essence of the problem that yes you can heat your house electrically with a heat pump but even in the current climate electricity (per kw) is still 3x the cost of gas?
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
Yes but the heat pump can be 300-500% efficient so still comparable or cheaper than gas! Watch heat geek channel for that!
@Etacovda63
@Etacovda63 2 жыл бұрын
wait till you cant pipe gas out of russia any more...
@ChrisLee-yr7tz
@ChrisLee-yr7tz 2 жыл бұрын
@@UrbanPlumbers Elect is x4 that of Gas. You're saying it's possible to get a CoP of 5 from an ASHP??? You sure? I do not see the economics working.
@Etacovda63
@Etacovda63 2 жыл бұрын
Newer ASHPs get a cop of 4 fairly regularly.
@ChrisLee-yr7tz
@ChrisLee-yr7tz 2 жыл бұрын
@@Etacovda63 Thanks. So £20k to install to cost the same to run as a combi? What am I missing here? I read a couple of scientific papers on ASHPs and GSHPs that said with the exception of CO2, for full life cycle, they're worse for the environment than Gas.
@TheLegend-nx3mm
@TheLegend-nx3mm 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Simon, as usual absolutely stunning install. The work is a true master piece and I know you installed this to someone spec. However shame about the design and products that have been used here , the radiators are truly and shockingly ugly I would sooner have a poster of the elephantman on the wall. Cost for this was probably £25k if this is what the government is encouraging people to have ? We urgently need a new government !!!(I know of an estate that had these fitted and thus far winter cost £1500.00 per quarter , they have to be left on 24/7 .... this size probably £2000.00 per quatre...) And finally I hope who the person who sold this to the customer advised them that , after the install there's no going back to there gas boiler...cuz that will be the next thing this incompetent government will make law...people you have been warned ⚠️ Don't be fooled.......a master piece of workmanship Simon as always 😉
@xxwookey
@xxwookey 2 жыл бұрын
Even ths govt is not going to mandate a return to gas boilers. Even conservative (apart from the morons in the 'Net Zero Scrutiny Group') recognise that gas is on the way out.
@edc1569
@edc1569 2 жыл бұрын
£2000 a quarter, so at £0.15p a unit (we're talking the past here), that's 13,000KWh of input, now assuming you're getting an utterly atrocious CoP of 2x that means 26,000kWh of heat, lets times it by 2 for the whole of winter. 52,000 kwh of thermal input into that building for space heating. Now my 80's three bed semi requires 10,000 kwh for space heating each year - so I don't think so.
@MrSunnyBhoy
@MrSunnyBhoy 2 жыл бұрын
Really interesting and great wall through. I don't have a clue about plumbing but I'm curious and this is so technical and scientific.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
Check heat geek channel for more information
@phatmeow7764
@phatmeow7764 2 жыл бұрын
i dun live in a particularly cold region but from i hear heat pump work except when you need them i.e in low low temperatures! is this true?
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers 2 жыл бұрын
They work fine in Sweden and Poland. Temperatures there drop to -20.
@markcollins457
@markcollins457 2 жыл бұрын
Again from New Jersey, the systems your installing are spot on for the job at hand. The systems installed here at this this level of control in the past were mostly in commercial applications. The residential HVAC market was driven by " Originally" by the cost and availability of cheap energy. Watching you work makes me realize how far behind the curve our response to energy conservation is. The technology has always been there but it "WAS" a hard $sell with Track homes and cheap oil and gas. Like the quality installations and results.
@nickthequick
@nickthequick 2 жыл бұрын
Which is why it's great that energy prices are now getting so high; we are more or less forced to change our ways.
@8skellerns
@8skellerns 2 жыл бұрын
Shall keep my tiny basic combi boiler thank you! Talk about complicated and expensive!
@frederickbowdler8169
@frederickbowdler8169 2 жыл бұрын
Yes he only just understand s his own system but not fully ! I bet he doesn't even Label the system they never work and rely on immersion heater or gas water heater backup .
@frederickbowdler8169
@frederickbowdler8169 2 жыл бұрын
Also heat pumps are slow and can take days to respond to cold snaps
@tonyclough9844
@tonyclough9844 2 жыл бұрын
What the gov will do is stop the spares for our combis, so within 10 years you have to buy heat pumps. The same with electric cars forced into buying them it's a form of communist gov.
@tonyclough9844
@tonyclough9844 2 жыл бұрын
Have you noticed the gov implement laws that nobody wants, like Boris concreting over shale gas then digging it up. Same with oil shut down the rigs oooppps open them up again.
@Daddelcrusher
@Daddelcrusher 2 жыл бұрын
@@frederickbowdler8169 Thats so wrong mate. I have infloor heating with a 300 meter energywell and 10 kw heatpump.
@jayb7345
@jayb7345 2 жыл бұрын
And the other bonus is that big box outside your back door and radiators floor to ceiling look really good 😳🤦
@georgestyer2153
@georgestyer2153 2 жыл бұрын
Really complete explanation..but...real numbers are always avoided so can I ask....Watts input to unit (fans compressor etc) equivilent electrical watts output to equal the output of the unit, that is output over input times 100 to give efficiency ans lets forget the 400% advetised figures
@syrus3k
@syrus3k 2 жыл бұрын
This is an excellent video and explains very well why people think heat pumps don't work
@fivish
@fivish 2 жыл бұрын
They work at great expense and inconvenience backed up with an electric boiler!
How Developers Are Ruining The Heat Pump Market
20:28
Urban Plumbers
Рет қаралды 104 М.
Your Underfloor Heating Could Be Better - Here Is How.
12:17
Urban Plumbers
Рет қаралды 78 М.
LOVE LETTER - POPPY PLAYTIME CHAPTER 3 | GH'S ANIMATION
00:15
Always be more smart #shorts
00:32
Jin and Hattie
Рет қаралды 46 МЛН
Skill Builder V Heat Geek | Heat Pump Argument
55:25
Skill Builder
Рет қаралды 183 М.
Reducing Energy Consumption in a Large Home: A Step-by-Step Guide
15:27
Heat Pumps In Winter ££££!!! - The Running Costs!
16:01
Electric Vehicle Man
Рет қаралды 106 М.
Maximizing Your Condensing Gas Boiler's Efficiency
20:56
Urban Plumbers
Рет қаралды 147 М.
Learn Everything About Heat Pump Defrost
26:00
HVAC School
Рет қаралды 67 М.
Why Heat Pumps are Immensely Important Right Now
21:03
Technology Connections
Рет қаралды 1,2 МЛН
I Wouldn't Do This For A Customer.....
36:36
HeatingGeek
Рет қаралды 29 М.
500% Efficient Heat Pumps - Are They Real?
16:34
Urban Plumbers
Рет қаралды 52 М.
Heat Geek Gives His Verdict on John’s Nightmare Heat Pump
35:46
Skill Builder
Рет қаралды 593 М.
Эй Рамазан # DamirAgroDizel
0:17
DamirAgroDizel
Рет қаралды 2,1 МЛН
Почему НИКА решила уехать из дома?
0:46
Привет, Я Ника!
Рет қаралды 1,3 МЛН
Заставил себя уважать!
0:52
МИНУС БАЛЛ
Рет қаралды 1,6 МЛН