A very honest, but extremely brutal presentation! Surely most of us that are serious into tapes, realistically know we may have only 4th or even 5th generation copies sometimes. But you know - we don't care. The density and SQ on playback, provides listener interaction smooth as silk and like it's from another World. My best vinyl fails to do that even half as well. But ohh - the price of a single piece of software is so expensive. Even more so when you don't reside in the US... Love the software reviews. Thanks.

Very Cool Danny, thanks for this incredible amount of information around the topic of Master Tapes. Great One!

I can't wait to hear more of the things you know. I could listen forever. You're very knowledgeable - and thanks for the info on kind of blue. - my copy is on it's way !

Hi! I am a recording engineer. Remixes and remasters drive me crazy. I consider the sonics imparted by great engineers of the past to be integral to old recordings, and it's generally not a great idea to mess with their work - you lose the imaging and gel that glues the mixes together every time. Sure, It's educational to hear tracks re-processed, but it's rare that I'm not disappointed by reissues versus original issues. I hadn't known about the trendy LP records being issued on 45rpm vinyl. In my experience, I've always thought that 45rpm singles are noisier than my 33's and I attributed that to low-end noise due to needle friction being inaudible at 33, but brought up into the audible range at 45... I guess I've been wrong. It's a great gimmick to sell plastic, ey? In the 80's when CD reissues sprang up, many of them sounded awful, and nowhere near as good as my (then) 20 year old vinyl. I attribute this to Master Tape Degradation. We live on a planet that exists in a magnetic field that is constantly rearranging the magnetic particles on these masters. Vinyl is subject to dust and scratches and melting and warpage, but it is not subject to the magnetic noise that surrounds all of existence. Master Tapes are subject to magnetic anomalies and degradation, and it's audible. When I hear quality reissues like Tommy from the Who, or that 20th anniversary Dark Side Of The Moon from Pink Floyd, those amazing reissues are an exception in quality, not the rule by any means. Great video. Thanks for sharing!

In today's episode, we take a look at everyone's favorite ultimate playback medium, the master tape. Yes, everyone who has one thinks they do, but they really don't - unless they know better. Like most things in high-end audio, terms have been used and abused. Much like "Half Speed Mastered" or "One Step" or "45rpm", the term "Master tape" has been through the ringer and then some. Let's clarify and contrast this topic to reality! #mastertape #audio #hifi #music #studio #analogmaster #analogtape Hemiolia Records www.hemioliarecords.com/HemioliaITA/Benvenuto.html Acoustic Sounds / Analog Productions store.acousticsounds.com

This means of source was next on the list on my hifi journey, thanks for the enlightenment!

The French project that bought all the Emtec / Basf hardware and formula was Pyrel and now rebranded as RTM (recording the masters) and still making great tape!

Thanks Danny. Lots of interesting information again! Love this half an hour educating sessions!👍👍👍

Love your honesty regarding hype & marketing in the (high end) audio world….definitely so! Only trust your ears 👂👌🏼

Also, thank you for the Canto Stefano recommendation. Amazing album its been on constant rotation

I was thinking about getting into tape, so I'm doing my research and this video is mindblowing, so informative, thank you so much for taking the time to do this and being honest.

Danny, excellent topic/video 👍 Studer A-807 owner here who’d love to see more affordable material come to the market. Hope you will trigger something here! Btw I recently got some tapes from IPI, some live recordings from early 60s Oscar Peterson, the MJQ, Ira Sullivan, and some more recent recordings Gary Peacock/Chick Corea and Charles Lloyd. Jonathan is very knowledgeable and a pleasure to deal with, he also has an extended catalog of more contemporary recordings and his prices are pretty decent. Thanks for suggesting the excellent Pavarotti Hemiolia tape, I would be interested to order both tapes but I’m finding the prices a little steep 😞 Hopefully if reel to reel tape sales start to pick up, the labels involved will be able to pass on to the consumer some of their economies of scale. Looking forward to see more on this topic, I believe there are a lot of RTR lovers out there 🙏 Best, Joel

What about the Tandberg TD 20A SE? Where does it fit? Is this factory specifications? I have found them to be average and mine is tweaked to a knat’s eyebrow with alignment tape, a 250 MHz scope for phase and fine tuning with electrostatic headphones. Mine is better than a Revox A-77 MK 4 which I had and traded that and a Sony TC-377 for it.

I would never had guessed the topic, of this episode 😅.

Hi Danny I have a question. Analog Productions for example have put out many records with the sticker that says it's a copy from the master tapes so it means they were in possession of a or a safety copy. Why not put that on tape? I'm talking about the Doors for example. Stuff outside of the jazz and classical realm

Great video..In the past 1970's..I always tried to get the albums for sale @ 7 1/2 ips because I heard a great fidelity difference between the studio produced @ 3 3/4" IPS..15 1/2" was not available for us at a commercial level...I.E. Columbia House and music stores..

Interesting video again Danny, and a great topic! I agree with most points you have mentioned. I have just these remarks: - There is no shortage of new tapes! I buy tapes all the time, and they are readily available, especially from RTM, who owns the BASF/EMTEC technology. I guess maybe there is a difference regarding tapes availability betweeen the US and Europe, but they are still available. - I listened to a 4th generation Beatles „Let It Be“ tape ( which I happen to know its exact origin and provenance), and it still sounded better than anything I ever heard of this album, including my UK near mint first pressing copy! So despite being a 4th generation with all the degradation associated with tape duplication, it still sounded more alive and vibrant on my Studer A807 than even the first pressing that came directly from the „Mastertape“ 😉

What is the 3rd tape machine you have? I hope a Tandberg TD20A SE 15 2 Track handwound heads and 15 to 34,000 Hz response. Super tweaked by an expert on Stax electrostatic headphones with perfect pitch and perfect timing according to Principle Second Violins Franz Polesny of the CSO under Rafael Kubelik (me). I know what you mean about radio ( canned). What my impression is of 99.9 percent of loudspeakers. Especially reproduction of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra I was present at dress rehearsals while my mother played Second chair Second Violins. Von Schweikert loudspeakers are designed to be the inverse of the recording microphone with a plus or minus midrange. The VR-9 is close, the Beveridge Model 2 is close, the MBL is close, Wilsons close. Bozak custom installation on either side of a Huge fireplace in Rancho Sante Fe California, very very close.

Where is the Instagram link ? :)

Waiting the next episode on tape machines 👍☢️🎉

Great information,,,,,

Please do a video on tape machines. That is a very interesting topic!

I have a few 15ips transcriptions from Gearbox records from their “masters”. They sound great. But of course they are a 2 Gen dub. But they sound amazing nonetheless. I’ve avoided “masters” though because there are so many variables in play. Old tape stock, Sticky Shed syndrome and of course, unverifiable provenance.

One thing I thought would come to market someday but just never did were discs that would hold all 24 tracks of a master recording. (I know not all albums were mixed from 24 tracks). For someone to have a actual 24 track tape and the equipment to play it on would be extremely rare, but with a computer and a digital copy of the 24 track master recording imagine all the things regular people could do with it. With a blu ray all tracks could be put on the disc at a high bit rate. There are also probably multiple takes on the master tapes. It would be so cool if someone took the masters from "Queen Night at the Opera" or other greats and ripped all the tracks to disk instead of leaving the tapes to rot in storage. I know the market would be small, but if people are willing to pay thousands for a tape then why not release some works on 24 track disc?

Nice video Danny!! Do you think you will get to the SRV couldn't stand the weather mfsl one step vs analogue productions shootout? Thanks!

I have been wondering about old master tapes from the 50s to 70s and wondering are they deteriorating now or are they still in good condition .. What do you think about The Last Factory Tape Preservative and is it a product that will solve the problem of tape degradation ?

I need to start adding sound effects to my videos.

Ramble on! Gerat song.

6:55 little fun fact for you. There is no 70mm negative. The negatives are 65mm and the prints for projection are 70mm. The extra 5mm are for multiple sound tracks/channels.

Hi Danny, wonder if you can give any feedback about Patricia Barber Companion 2x LP release done by Premonition records, remastered by Doug Sax please. There are some information I could find online, but 1st its more about Modern Cool than any other album, where lots of talk about sibliance that those LP releases have. There is another Companion release done by MoFi, which you may also own, but this one is out of print and expensive to get, however, you may also give your shoot out about both, if possible of course. Personally, I like to get that Premonition version from 2013 release and wonder if this is really worth, cos if its sibliant by any way, I better just stay away and spend my money on something that sounds really great. By the way, I believe all Patricia recordings are digital made originally and later were transferred in to master tapes, but again, thats what I read others writing. Regarding topic. Master tapes are way to expensive to have fun in your life and for a good copy you pay like USD 700 at least these days, so, agree that vinyl is de most closesest format that can be bought for reasonable price that sounds great. Thanks!

A nice presentation, but I'm surprised that you don't mention that ATR tape is alive and well in North America (the old Ampex factory), and RTM is in France, which is the old BASF/Emtec factory. There's also Capture tape out of Portland Oregon, I'm not sure where they get their tape manufactured from.

Could you use the noise floor itself to estimate the generation of a given copy

When AP says they transferred the tape they are selling “from a copy of the original master tape”, does that mean the tape they are selling is the 2nd copy from the master? From Analogue Productions comes another classic title in our Ultra Tape reel-to-reel album reissue series. Each is a 15 ips, ¼-inch analog tape copy (IEC equalization) sourced from a copy of the original analog master tape. Transferred real-time, using an ATR-modified Ampex Tape Machine with flux magnetic heads

The biggest issue with Reels is content. Leaving price aside, all the content available are the Cliche Titles: Norah Jones, John Coltrane, yadda yadda… Plus, a very high end Turntable is on par in many ways and better in other ways. I don’t think Reel will trump a Nagra Reference TT, for example.

Fone' from Italy is a great source for master (or so) copies.

The original recordings were recorded raw and making the stereo master is after the processing and downmixed to two channel stereo mix so you already have one generation making the downmmixed sound. Now it is digitally recorded so it's not much loss if any at all.

Friend of mine got a nice pile of "safety" copies of pre-mastered mixdowns from a major southern record label and brought them to me to digitize. He got the tapes for free but sold the originals after I was done with them. Some of them sounded REALLY GOOD; and one contained studio sessions from a know artist, that were never released. All of the tape boxes had "work sheets" that seemed to verify their authenticity, although of course those could be faked. It's GREAT that so many studios and production houses just threw out all their old tapes, and some of those were salvaged.

Servus Danny ! Welche Köpfe hast Du auf deiner SonoruS ? Sind da neue Köpfe drauf oder sogar neue Schmetterlingsköpfe ? Denn so etwas hätte diese tolle Maschine mit Röhrentechnik eigentlich verdient. Liebe Grüße GEORG

wonder if many good Quality 7 I.P.s Recordings, are available i.e. not master tapes !

Preach!

It's really very simple. There would be the 'master' multitrack (Many of these were not saved since the tape was very expensive. The 'mix master' was a 1/4" tape that was the 1st gen recording from the multi-track 'master', the 2nd gen copy is the one used for distribution and duplication. Not all 'Master' mix down tapes were saved either. It was common for a big artistes early recordings to be considered not valuable enough to save their tapes, and tape was expensive, especially the 2" 24 track material. Only once an artist gained some commercial value would their tapes be preserved. These days, hard drive space is cheap so just about everything is saved now... It's also worth noting that even 'master' multi-track tape may not be the ultimate original material since in many cases 24 tracks was not enough and thus 'bounce' down was common, such as 10 channels of drums would be mixed down to 2 or 4 tracks (known as a 'stem') to free up tracks for more material. In many cases, individual microphone tracks were lost due to bouncing down. Linking two 24track machines to total 48tracks was a later development. Again, tape was expensive, only the top artists got to have their multitrack masters preserved...

I recorded a couple albums onto 2” tape. Wish I knew where they went. lol “there is no way in hell....” 🤣 Exceptional vid and information, Danny. Thanks very much!

Speak brother! Just for the record... 24 track 2 inch, 16 track 2 inch (the best!)...these were the tape based pro standards... 32 only in digital format like the early Mitsubishi system. Mastering to 30 IPS 1/2" tape, half track(one way only...) was the best pro standard before digital. You are so right...copying tape to tape is a very dodgy proposition. A lot of the impact can be blunted even in one copy pass. That's why engineers were so happy with digital as it mitigated the muddiness.

Very interesting - tape always interests me, be it R to R, cassette or VHS/ Beta HiFi tape ( not forgetting our friend the 8-track). Think i would be permanently broke if i went down the 15 ips route.

In the 80's when we would master tapes, we would make several masters from the same 24 track two inch to avoid the problems you're talking about. And, I know other mastering houses would do the same. The first run masters or dubs from these mastering tapes would go to the artists themselves and with dbx type l system utilised correctly, these semi masters would sound incredible.

Excellent Danny Dave Deyner has a great channel. He reviews audiophile lps and tapes on a top flight turntable and a STUDER pro R2R used by EMI. - top flight stuff

When you find out your $1000 "master tape" was made from a cd someone bought at a thrift store for $1.

I suspect what was going on with companies like The Tape Project was they were getting hold of production copies. (These are the copies that consumer copies are made from. At the very best, these copies are one generation away from the master mix copy.) They could even be a couple of generations further from the master than that, such as a copy of a safety copy, anyway.... I suspect what these companies were doing was to make a digital dub of whatever source they were using, then dubbing that onto open reel to sell to audiophiles and calling them "master copies."

🤘🏼

The amount of money some ebay buyers pay for a 7 inch reel of an album recorded regular 4 track (2 tracks each direction) at 3.75 ips blows my mind. Old Beatles, Clapton, Blondie or whatever tapes sometimes go for over 300 bucks, and for what? Those tapes won't sound anywhere near to the same album on a cd.

I own a Revox 4 track. It's a machine that is fun to look and relax when listen. I do have quite a fair amount of old new stock of emtec and basf tapes. And so, I made my own "master tapes" from the records that are my favorites. Its yust fun to watch the reels to turn, listen and relax. It's yust a moment when you are alone with music. No phones, tv, tablets. Yust a machine, tape or record and music.

hi all alot of master tape s are 1/2 1 inch wide tracks 1 inch 4 track 2 track 1/2 inch or full track mono in the past i had 100's of tapes on pallets when studio are no more best to keep away from 1/4 tapes big time i only buy 1/2 inch to 2 inch now and i pay on money save them getting binned

Is these tape are 1/2 or 1/4 ? Tape?

👌👌

So many issues here. There can be masters for tape reproduction, LP, CD, downloads, and streaming. Supposedly some of the bad sounding early CD's were produced from the LP cutting masters which would have an EQ profile which would not be suitable for CD. I have both consumer and pro decks and even 3rd generation tapes at 15ips 2 track sound very good. Also, 2" tape was used for 16 and 24 track recording as well. Mara Machines sells 16 and 24 track 2" refurbished machines. RTM is the French company producing very good blank tape. I do not work for any audio related company nor sell any audio related product. I am acquiring the equipment and knowledge to do live recording.

The example with cassette dubbing is invalid. Cassette is different then tape.

This is why I'm enjoying the Steve Wilson re-masters, ( on vinyl), he supposedly, and I believe does, uses the multi-tracks and creates a new "master". I understand audio ( the hobby), but it seems listening to what the artists wrote is so overshadowed by how good it's reproduced.

IDK, if one were to procure a rare early-generation, highest quality tape, whose first though is "yeah, oh great, i'll have to make a copy of this on tape"? You lot can't be telling me you don't have a Focusrite kicking about there somewhere...

Good to make more people aware of these ripoffs. If it's too good to be true, then it probably is. The Tape Project site still appears to be up and they show that they still have 5 copies in stock of the Exotic Dances reel, several other tapes showed to be on back order. IIRC, when The Tape Project started up, they indicated that the machine they were using to make their copy of the original master tape, was a 1 inch, 30ips Ampex pro deck. They felt that this would only give them about one and a half db of SN loss as opposed to the usual three db. On another topic, which do you prefer the sound of, the Sonorus or the Telefunkens, and why?

At some point I thought you're about to say - There is no way in hell… because *I* have the Beatles master tape! Good show!

A song that came to mind when you were talking about the ‘mythical’ quality of the mastertape not being all that mythical, is the song “Is that all there is.., from Peggy Lee. “Is that all there is to mastertapes….” 😂

Strongly agreed 👍 💯

Thank you Danny you read my mid I was just looking up master tapes on eBay 2 days ago.

This is probably why modern vinyl "remasters" and special editions of older albums sound worse than original pressings, I imagine that the source they use is so many copies removed from the one used by the original vinyl pressing.

I am excited to own two master tapes of a legendary Detroit funk artist with songs that have never been released.

I appreciate your offering your experience, expertise, and advice. Still - after [ indescribable ] research, I’m beginning to liken this topic to the U.S. organic pandemic : people willingly shoveling out money - because they’re [ told ] to do so--with nary a, legitimate, confirmation. … and people wonder why “ inflation ” has, rampantly, exploded : greedy people, one-upping each other.

Greetings, can you please contact us. We loved the podcast on Master Tapes and we need you!!!!!! Can't wait to hear from you.ty.

I've got a mono master of the Beatles 'Please, Please Me' from Take My Word for lt productions lol

Reels also won’t last more than a couple of decades without proper storage… a vinyl record will last forever.

Roger Nichols when he did the 2 channel final mixes decided to run 2 identical tape decks simultaneously creating two indistinguishable master tapes (not a safety) One he always kept himself.

Danke, Liebelein. Frisches Kölsch wartet hier auf dich.

What should be clear from the get go is that the pinnacle of analog playback resides undoubtedly with the tape as medium; or in other words, if analog copies are made from the same source professionally, the 1/4" tape running at 15"/s on a decent 2 tracks machine would clearly surpass the 200g vinyl running at 45 RPM on the best vinyl rig known to man. And more so, a tape didn't even reach its limit since it can be better still if running at 30"/s and the tape being 1/2" 2 tracks. I disagree that the "tape revival" fizzled out, in fact Danny mention the fact that these new master tape copies are fast disappearing from the market, despite the very high cost of ownership; also note here the steady climb of the cost to purchase good machines such as Studer, Nagra, Stellavox, Sony APR 5000, Otari MTR's, and so on. Must be a hard to swallow truth that your 150k vinyl rig can be the laughing stock of someone with a machine only worth few thousand dollars; quite a lot of decent "master tapes copies" could be bought with the saved money.

The Tape Project is well and alive.

RTM the French people actually make tapes based off the original BASF and AGFA formulas

If I were showing mega buck amps and speakers I would expense a top flight r2r deck. The sound is so warm and effortless. That said my vinyl rig and sought after pressing are pretty life like

Well done Danny. There's another aspect about this that I think gets overlooked. These dub copies that are sold are not, in most cases, mastered! The mastering engineer takes the output from the master tape, runs it through the mastering console, and then applies eq, level matching, etc etc. A copy dubbed off of a master tape will not have this. There is a great story of an early audiophile label client of Doug Sax, who wanted Sax to cut his first release...a classical title. He instructed Sax in no uncertain terms not to use any eq or any other process. Sax told him "you sound like a man who knows what he wants". Sax proceeded to do as he was instructed. The client got the test pressing and was bitterly disappointed...the original LP was vastly better. When he complained to Sax, Doug calmly said "Right. Now sir, would you like me to master this album for you?" The client said "Yes, please make this sound better! Otherwise, I'll be ruined." Sax recut the LP (using the master of course) and added his expertise. The client got the test pressing from the recut and was thrilled and that's what was released.

Hi Danny Just discovered n sub Greetings fr Malaysia Rgds n Stay safe Azmi

Great video dude :-)

the provenance of the tape used to make dups is EVERYTHING. I got into 15 ips tape a half dozen years ago and bailed in a year after spending a small fortune, i found my vinyl copies were close enough. That said, when I last heard 30 ips 1/2 tape master over an audiophile system i creamed my jeans--best sound ever.

DANNY-How would you, or the owner, know if someone, with access, made a good quality copy of a master tape on vintage tape stock, matched the splice points, and put the new copy on the original reel and back in the original box? Would it be possible for a dishonest person to get away with the true master tape?

Master tapes and the abstract truth!!

Hilarious, is this your best sales pitch for that company? Did you used to sell used cars?

I thought exotic dances was recorded natively in 176khz…

Great vid. But please, don’t use those annoying and hurtful effect sounds like the one at the end of this video. Level is disproportionately higher and it’s extremely uncomfortable. I love your channel but those gimmicky effects ….. no need for that.

Hemiolia has released "Blue Train", "Kind Of Blue" and "Ah Um" as "master tapes" with questionable sources and definitely not officially licensed. They sell these for 850 euros each.

hi otari made a 32 track for the usa market

hi i wonder if the masters are 2 inch tapes or 1/4 - 1 inch i know 1/2 inch were used to master down to the studio's i know ampex tapes are going bad i do know there's a.lot of data audio files they use as masters alot now if there was alot of used reel to reel out there you would see them turning up i got hold of alot of studio reel to reel over the years and it's who you know not ebay as tapes go around hand to hand in deals i know some are saved in deals beware of master tapes because some are used in high speed for dubbing of cassette's and reel to reel i have had high speed dubbing reel to reel mate gave me some to test they are very bad the sound was going on them loop bin dubbing i keep away from we could easy make the master tapes and con people out there i have been told alot a 2 track 1/2 inch at 15 ips is more likely to be real thing it's the 1/4 inch i never buy money pit

Looking over AP's tape list, I'll bet that Art Pepper New York Album on 1/4" is SUBLIME. At some point, digital should sound just as good... though I'm still waiting for that day.

24-track tape was 2". 32-track was digital.

how'bout gfy

So…you are telling me my eBay Master Tape copy of Radiohead’s OK Computer is fake? 💿 joking.. 😄

hi man you have a very good point i have picked up a;lot of old reel to reel tapes over the years you are 100% right about alot of copy many gen i will say the price of reel to reel tapes is now silly i picked up alot of 14 inch spools for my deck and the decks are needing a service now i have a mag film tape deck they are very good 16mm 35mm film audio is very good

Dont give it to universal though. I hear it makes good fire wood.

Dude….you look like Bob Crane……Hoooogaaaannnn

Very informative Danny!.....praise be to the great god SHELLAC that I am a pagan who is happy with his crackly mono 45s....though...some of those little buggers are a cult unto themselves...anyways,I"m an "entry level"pleb...pay me no mind!

I don't trust my ears, because what other people hear might sound different from one person to another, I'm a electronic technician with 40 years of experience, and I only trust my testing equipment to know the distortion and floor noise of any device, the accuracy, frequency response etc. I don't care for audiophile mumbo jumbo like cable risers or other nonsense. I enjoy listening to music, but what sounds good to me doesn't necessarily sound good for another person and the opposite, and I respect that. If people enjoy a particular media, then good for them, just don't pay premium prices for something that doesn't worth it for you.

How is this new information to anybody? Although there is some good info in the comments so, there is that. I think you probably know some stuff. Maybe make an outline and pair things down before you start talking. You’re not going to get anywhere this way.

hi to all digi master you can make a copy to a otari mtr 12 2 track stereo or a 4 track one inch i have the for mats wow is the word we he a tape deck that take video tape kind of tape i have a betacam sp deck wow is the word get hold of one try it 6 x a betamax speed i have racks of them betacam sp decks

Don't be so quick to knock AM radio. AM can indeed sound phenomenal and AM stereo can offer more stereo separation than FM stereo can. The thing that has troubled AM radio for the past 50 years or so has been the poor manufacturing of receivers and tuners, as well as insufficient attention to quality on the part of so many AM broadcasters over the years and decades. The amplitude modulation can be proven and has been proven to be a superior fidelity medium, when done right, broadcasting and receiving.

Get a DSD master from the studio.