Just a somewhat minor correction. Stigmata awakened people aren't Form. Durandal is an Equinox rather than Form, according to Will of Stigmata. Form is basically a stigmata crystallized in human form. Imagine if Veliona or Will of Stigma could materialize a physical body in the real world. That's what a Form is. A human with an awakened stigmata is not even close to that, though maybe if they could awaken their stigmata to a higher level they would become kinda like that. I'm not sure about that though. In any case, there's only one Form that we know of but I'm not gonna say who it is because it's a pretty big spoiler.

Yeah. Thanks for the correction! The English translation was a bit confusing on that part and I misunderstood.

​@@elysainempire4628 Everyone had a stigmata from birth, not just Mei. But Mei stigmata is not awakened because she became a Herrscher. A Herrscher is the opposite of an awakened stigmata. In fact, awakened stigmata can interfere or even destroy a herrscher core. This was revealed in chapter 33.

@@elysainempire4628 He said all people have stigmata. He didn't need to name Mei specifically. Also, Seele's stigmata is not a Herrscher stigmata anymore. It was modified in the PE and turned into a Project Stigma stigmata. So now it's not a herrscher stigmata anymore. I's the same type of stigmata as the Kaslana stigmata, which is also a Project Stigma stigmata. Those stigmata are fundamentally different than Herrscher stigmata. Seele inherited her stigmata through her bloodline, just like the Kaslana stigmata is also passed down through the Kaslana bloodline.

@@elysainempire4628 Dude, I can't read all the wall of text. I don't have that kind of time. I'm just gonna explain a few things quickly. First, every human has a "natural stigmata." They're dormant (not awakened) though, and most of them are degraded after many generations of mixing DNA. There are some that don't degrade due to special modifications done by Fire Moth, like the Kaslana stigmata. Still, all "natural stigmata" come from the same source: Fire Moth. They were all designed by Mobious and Dr.MEI. They aren't truly natural. Now, Seele's stigmata is a special case. As Veliona explains to Seele in the Azure Waters manga, Seele's stigmata was encoded into human DNA in the PE. Veliona doesn't say who encoded it, but it's probably Mobious since she was the one doing that kinda of research in the PE. This stigmata isn't a herrscher stigmata anymore since it's compatible with Project Stigma. We know this for a fact because Seele was transported to the moon by Project Stigma. Not only that, but in chapter 32, Hare says that Veliona is the same kind as Hare. This means she's the opposite of a Herrscher. Veliona is not like HoV or HoS. Those are Herrschers personas. Veliona is not like that. She's like Hare, the crystallization of stigmata. It's a totally different thing enterily.

Hannah m, if u upgrade it the materials go in her ass

Hannah’s stigmata is disturbing 🙂😐☹️

@HoshikosDream especially the-

It's making me tingles

Pretty much in tune with the game itself I would say.

I didn't even think of this it really makes sense for that particular storyline!

This Theory Is Absolutely False sorry

@@Zino_Kohiruimaki your source?

Irminsul is NOT a preservation of human thoughts through time. It's data from thoughts of every sentient being from the 'past', 'present', and 'future', broken down into data which is timeless, which is why chronology is meaningless to the irminsul tree. The data _manifests_ as memories when stuff leaks out from the tree, but that's ultimately just a manifestation, not the true form of the information inside its roots/branches. The imaginary tree is the 'structure' that hosts all possibilities within the universe: it exists in a higher dimension since it's a concept beyond three dimensions, it's in an 'imaginary' realm since it's not a concept meant to have a material form or meant to be bound by physics or rules of existence, it's a 'tree' because it has branching worldlines that are all parallel worlds of each other but is ultimately just _compared_ to a tree. It's more like the fabric of the universe, the foil to everything that has ever existed, exists, and could exist- by not really 'existing' as anything more than a concept. Meanwhile the irminsul tree isn't a 'concept'. It's real: just because it's a tree that can't be seen or touched or accessed by normal means, doesn't mean it's not a tree. Its branches and roots aren't 'metaphors' they are actual roots and branches with a distinct color and shape (perhaps it may look different to different people, or have a different form in higher dimensions, but it has a material form. it's appearance in the game file isn't just a placeholder for something that can't be visualized (in contrast, there's no way to truly visualize a branch of the imaginary tree, apart from waving a hand and saying the universe we live inside in right now is a branch.) Perhaps an imaginary dimension even higher than the dimension the imaginary tree 'exists' on could 'flatten' the tree to make visualizing it possible (in the way we flatten a 3D object in artworks onto our 2D screens) but at a dimension so high, I don't think 'material forms' and 'visualization' will even retain any meaning. The Irminsul tree is far, far less complex than the Imaginary tree in concept.

Fr though. He wasn't playing when he said. "I'm about to blow your mind." 😂

just fantasize whatever you want, because whatever you fantasize, it is canon, in a bubble universe

Same, XD

Well... They admitted themselves that they're "Tech otaku"

Yeah, honestly, I didn't want to complicate things even more than they already are.

I want hoyo to show us what all the herrscher’s stigmata look like, we know what Death, Thunder, Wind, Fire, and Void look like, (ironically all the cores Sirin had) but not any others…

This would be nice but I don't think they will.

Otto after meeting WoH: yeah thats how it feel

I haven't understood anything that's happened since thunders over nagazora

Yeah, on a universal scale, the abyss kinda seems like some sort of manifestation similar to honkai.

There is no right or wrong way of telling a story IMO. It all depends how you choose to look at the situation. Honkai is miHoYo's love letter to EVA, so being this complicate and heavy on technicalities is to be expected. If you want to look at the situation from a game marketing and development perspective, it's a bit counterproductive to have a convoluted story like this because not many will be able to follow it due to it's major time investment that it requires to make sense of it. On the other hand, Honkai is a niche game, that focuses on a very specific type of player that enjoys these kind of themes and complicated universes. It's clear that HoYo makes Honkai because they like doing this stuff. They are otakus at the end of the day, and they wanted to make a game where they don't have to hold back anything and just do what they want. It's fine if you accept it and take Honkai for what it is. That's why they are much tamer with Genshin for example, because they want the game to appeal to a large audience, meanwhile, for Honkai they are focused on a specific niche.

Yes, people that don't have Stigmata can't connect to Stigma Space. That's why Project: Stigma exists, to "force" that connection for every human on Earth.

@@HomuLabs Maybe you'd be willing to recap how the Project Stigma work? (Or maybe in another video) IIRC the project pulls most normal humans into a "dream world", where their dreams will coalesce into one being called "Adam Ruhani" who will become the "new humanity" while the old humanity will become its "stigma"? I think what you said about "imaginary renormalization" has to do with the way the project works too

Yoo, thank you very much! You're traces are amazingly well done! They are the only high quality stigma art you can find on the internet.

@@HomuLabs Well, thank you very much, I'm glad to have helped :)

That's a great point! I'll go back and check again just to be sure. But from my understanding of what the Will of Stigma said, a human that fully awakened their stigma is called an Equinox. Now, Forms can be both humans with fully awakened stigma and stigma people like Veliona and Hare. Since I am pretty sure that in Ch 28, he called Durandal both a Form and said that she achieved Equinox. Anyway, I'll check again and add it to the pinned comment if I'm wrong. Thanks for pointing this out! Edit: I went back and checked. Seems you are right. There is a clear distinction between Forms and Equinox.

Yeah. Not all stigma awakened are Form level. Durandal is Equinox which is a lower level of awakening than Form. The only Form we know of is Hare.

I think that the naming convection for this concept it's an interesting debate. I saw some people not really satisfied with the word "from" in the english localization. To me, the word makes sense as a reference to Plato. But I think that in this context, both "forms" and "ideas" works in the same way, since the "forms" described by Plato are essentially ideas.

@@HomuLabs From Wikipedia: The word idea comes from Greek ἰδέα idea "form, pattern," from the root of ἰδεῖν idein, "to see." The way WOS Kevin pronounces it in JP follows the original Greek pronounciation too But yeah, it's still a reference to Plato's Theory of Forms (which is sometimes called "Theory of Ideas")

i want to see a herrscher version seele

​@@tonzhanlotus1299. Sa has fulfilled your wish

Maybe in the future.

That's what I've been asking myself for a long time!

For Seele obtaining the gem, yes she would probably be Herrscher of Death, it would be that one specifically (you wouldn't have Mei and Kiana suddenly become Herrschers of Void and Thunder if they have opposite cores of that element?) I don't think stigma affects it but idk

Best way to start is to take a note and a pen. (or open a word document) Then go on KZfaq, watch videos, and write down the most important things. I recommend channels like PBS Space Time and Dr Ben Miles for theoretical understanding, and The Action Lab for a more practical understanding of the processes. Also, if you ever want to go more in-depth into a concept, Wikipedia is your friend.

@@HomuLabs thank you

I don't have a discord for the moment.

You are right, but Veliona became a more recognizable name in the community. It's also easier for me to call her that, instead of saying "red Seele" or "the other Seele".

@@HomuLabs well yeah, but it can also be misleading to say the red seele as veliona... would be much better if you say 'alter-seele' tho... just sayin 👌🏻

There is still Veliona, and even Saule, but only in one of the event stories. Still exists tho.

@@ashadyoutsider1195 not canon, and also both is battlesuit mode of stygian nymph

@@WaldiKenway I'm not arguing about how canon it is to the main story. I was pointing out how they existed as actual names to correct your claim on how there is no Veliona.

Not all of them

Probably not. What the video didn't say is that the stigma Seele has is not a Herrscher stigma anymore. It was re-coded by someone from Fire Moth (probably Mobious) and turned into a stigma compatible with Project Stigma (Herrscher stigmata are incompatible with it). So Seele's stigma has a different evolutionary path than a Herrscher stigma. A powerup for Seele would probably consist in achieving a higher level of stigma awakening rather than becoming a Herrscher. Stigma awakening has various levels as far as we know: base level (Seele is here), Equinox level (Durandal is here). So Seele can still grow stronger by getting a higher awakening.

@@1idd0kun but that is the evolutionary path of the stigma without the core so the question was if she somehow obtain the gem of serenity from kiana and somehow awaken it into a core. She can technically hold the title "herscherr" as it seems that the only requirement for it is a functioning core/authority. Perhaps a stigma awakener with herscherr title. I know it's kinda opposing since natural stigma awakeners are the opposite of herrschers based on this video but how i imagine it is that since veliona is the manifestation of the natural stigma, seele (base ego) could become the honkai/herscherr will of the core (like mei and herscherr mei back in the HotV arc) so her body will house 2 wills that can evolve independently (veliona, a natural stigma that can become a form/equinox and seele, the will of the core that can become a herrscher). Moreover, seele hasn't been shown using the white flower but i believe she will take on the creation side of the core and become the Herscherr of Soul (or something like that since it balances life and death, creation and corrosion). Just speculations Edit: i'm using veliona to address the stigma born ego of seele. I know they already embraced each other as the same. Just to make it less confussing

Hmm.... Actually Kiana doesn't need to give Seele the gem. Maybe. Remember what happened to Mei? Once Seele fully awakened as a Herrscher, the gem inside Kiana will vanish and reconstructed inside Seele. Then why Seele never became a Herrscher? Yes. She has GREAT potential as one. But my personal guess is that she unconsciously reject any notions about it. Because if Seele truly awakened as a Herrscher, a battle would truly start between Seele and "Seele". I forgot where but once I've ever read somewhere that "Seele" exist as a "method of coping" for Seele until she is "ready". When the time comes, they would duke it out to determine which one among them to exist.

@@b.ardner6903 so if seele one day transforms into herscherr of death veli will be erased probably or be supressed by the herscherr ego?or maybe veli will be the herscherr ego?idk theres too much to theorize about that

​@@en9719 I think if Seele became a Herrscher, Veliona would disappear, because their nature are opposite. In chapter 33 we see how the stigmata can interfere and even destroy a herrscher core. They're totally incompatible. Seele could become a Herrscher but she would have to give up on Veliona who is the crystallization of her stigmata, and I don't see that happening.

1. Think about this way. Also, remember that in the field of quantum physics we are mostly talking on a theoretical spectrum based on observation. If both particles are in opposite corners of the universe and one of the would suddenly change the direction it moves, the other would do the same. Using classic physics, there is no way for them to "communicate" to each other the fact that they started moving in another direction that fast in order for the other one to adapt. 2. We don't fully understand quantum entanglement yet. It is just a process that we have observed. They must "communicate" somehow, because otherwise the process itself wouldn't be possible. We apply the concept of Imaginary Space when disusing the process because we don't understand it and just assume that they must exist in a higher dimension as one unit for the process to make sense for us. Most of what we know about Quantum Physics is based on theory and speculation. 3. Based on what we observed and know about quantum entanglement, it's a process that remains constant no matter where the particles are situated in space. So it doesn't matter if the particles are right next to each other, or in opposite corners of the universe, based on our observations the process should still be the same.

@@HomuLabs 1. Okay, clear enough 2. Just for the sake of analogy, I think there are other phenomena in physics that are about "if X changes in a certain way, the Y that is connected to X also changes in a certain way"? I.e I'm trying to use another phenomenon to explain quantum entanglement, rathet than the word "communicating" - the problem is that, well, I dunno if there are any kind of phenomenon like that 3. So you mean, we (i.e researchers) did observe that the particles will move in the opposite direction even if they're, say, 150 million kms (the distance light goes in 1 sec) apart? I mean, I thought "movement" is a relative measurement based on whatever the observer deems as the "point of reference" and that, if the thing observed is more than 150 million kms from the observer, whatever it is that "detects" the particles' movement will get a delayed/not-real-time result (or am I getting it wrong?)

2. I believe that the issue here is the fact that you try to apply common logic to understand the process when that is not the correct way to approach it. The truth is that scientists don't understand quantum entanglement. It's a process that just happens and has been observed among subatomic particles that are intimately linked to each other. It's like they have an invisible string that connects them and can process and transmit information faster than the speed of light. Scientists believe that for that to be possible, the particles are in fact the same particle that travels in a higher dimension and is projected as two different particles in our perception. There is another process that is linked to it called quantum superposition, which represents the ability of a quantum system to be in multiple states at the same time until it is measured. So, until observed by somebody, both particles can exist in multiple states. So, think of it as the same particle that can exist in multiple states (spin to the left, and spin to the right) until observed. When observed, they take one of those positions in the perception of the observed. That's what we call a quantum collapse. 3. Well, researchers did not observe them that far apart because it would be impossible. This is just an assumption based on what we observed and understand about the process.

@@HomuLabs 2. So the order of logic goes that, when scientists observe a peculiar pair of particles that are always moving to the direction opposite to each other, they deem them to be in a state of "quantum entanglement"? Btw quantum superposition is basically Schrodinger's Cat right? 3. So it's still only hypothesis as of now... I asked this bc I know that when we see the "light of stars" in the night sky, the real star that gives that light might not be "there" anymore, but instead somewhere else

Yes, and yes, it's basically Schrodinger's Cat