Pinned post for Q&A :)

The Americans didn't want to build the ships, but could have afforded to do so. The Japanese did want to build the ships, but couldn't have afforded to do so. The French wanted other people to think that they wanted to build the ships and could afford to do so, but in fact they didn't want to and couldn't have afforded to do so. The Italians did not want the French to build the ships, and thought they had prevented them from doing so, but in fact see above. The Italians themselves could not afford to build the ships any more than the French could. The British sort of wanted to build the ships, and could sort of have afforded to do so, but would rather everyone just restrained themselves as that would leave the Royal Navy in a better position than they could have paid for in the event of another naval arms race.

It's amazing how world-changing naval treaties are so easy to read and understand, yet local municipal parking codes are so byzantine and unintelligible.

As an attorney in training all this loopholery warms the cockles of my cold, nonexistent heart.

J's argument: "We calculated that to defeat You we need 70% of this, but You granted us only 60% of this!" A's argument: "Well... yep!" ...and that's why in diplomacy the real argument is often not stated.

"cheese goes on top of pasta and cheese goes on top of pizza" Drachism of the day

So... I basically listens for almost an hour to a man explaining an almost 100 year old navy treaty that only was relevant for about 10 years. Reach you absolute madman. Keep up the great work

In real-life attempt to a game "balance"

"Ok, no more battleships" "Lets build really large heavy cruisers" "Ok, you can't build heavy cruisers larger than this set number" "Lets build really large light cruisers and put heavy cruiser guns on them" "Ok, now the only differentiating factor distinguishing heavy from light cruisers is gun calibre, and the previous limits on heavy cruisers now apply to both types" "Lets build bigger destroyers" "Fine, limitations on total tonnage of our entire destroyer flotillas" *Ignores the treaties anyways*

Italy- When "Annoy the French" is your Foreign policy.

Despite the abuses, the Washington Treaty was a bellwether for voluntary international arms limitation and relieved pressure on national economies just when they needed it. It showed that even when motivated by self-interest the major powers could work together and could all benefit from controlling military expenditure.

I always wondered why the Royal Navy accepted the limitation of just 2 Nelson-class. I never considered HMS Hood was silently standing in as the 3rd. Excellent video!

"Britain managed to distract everyone from the exsistence of Hood that no one gonna asks to scrap it" German: Now this looks like a job for me

The one dislike is probably a Japanese admiral unhappy with the progress of the negotiations.

"Drach explains the Washington Naval Treaty... this should be good, like Game of Thrones... with Battleships!" *goes to make popcorn.

Excellent presentation. A small elucidation. The US did not want to become the biggest navy merely for boasting rights. It was a direct response to the seizure of American merchant ships on the high seas in 1915 in violation of international law and the London Declarations of 1910. These ships, carrying cargoes to neutrals, were stopped and instead of being inspected on the spot and allowed to pass if no contraband was found were brought into British ports, unloaded, and in many cases the cargo seized without payment. American owners were denied representation, or even the right to be present at Prize Court hearings to give a defense. This was a great embarrassment to President Wilson as it was the casus belli for the Anglo-American War of 1812. As a southerner, if he failed to stand up for northern shipping interests he would not be re-elected the following year (1916). The British also remembered 1812 and did not formally seize any of the ships except those caught trying to trade with Germany but held them, often for months while charging port fees, storage, and for the cost to unload them. The US government told the owners not to pay while they attempted a diplomatic solution. The British even seized a ship belonging to Standard Oil carrying cans of illuminating oil, another non-contraband item, but released it promptly when John D. Rockefeller sent a telegram. The Dacia Incident, in particular, was galling because the British legal point of view on her legitimacy was the same as the Americans' as Sir Edward Grey had confirmed. Cotton was specifically exempted from being contraband by the London Declarations. Britain had objected to Russia declaring cotton contraband only a decade earlier during the Russo-Japanese War. Moreover, H.M. government had given the US government a specific assurance that cotton would not only be allowed to pass to neutrals but to Germany as well. Germany bought a sixth of US cotton production before the war. Later they realized how dependent the Germans were on imported cotton to make cordite. Turkish cotton could not reach them because Romania was blocking train traffic. So the British claimed ships were sneaking copper billets into cotton bales and began stopping them. No copper was ever found but they bought over £2,000,000 in cotton cargoes to keep them from the Germans. The British reversed their cotton policy without notice by an Order in Council of March 11, 1915 making cotton contraband. The US government had informed the British Dacia was carrying cotton to the Netherlands. They suddenly felt the US might be using her as a test case to establish a precedent to trade with neutrals. But intercepting her was tricky. They had given their assent to President Wilson. So they tipped off the French to do the actual dirty work of seizing Dacia so they could appear guiltless of breaking their word. President Wilson, an anglophile, felt he'd been betrayed. He wasn't going to take it lying down. He asked Congress for a fleet. The biggest fleet in the world, as big as the next two combined. There were also complaints about the Germans. Lusitania was sunk in the middle of all this in May but this announcement was specifically aimed at Britain. President Wilson said to his aide, Col. Edward House that he was anxious to hasten the day when the U.S. Navy was larger than the United Kingdom's, proclaiming "Let us build a Navy bigger than hers and do what we please." Congress approved the plan in July, 1915 as part of the 1916 budget. The British got the message. They began releasing American ships or offered to buy them at prices high enough that the owners made no complaint. They dropped demands for fees and reloaded innocent cargoes at their own expense. There was also some compensation for seized or spoiled cargoes with the notable exception of Dacia, and the Chicago Meat Packers, who lost fifteen million 1915 dollars worth of canned meat destined for Copenhagen. To put that in perspective it was 33 shiploads of canned meat sent over three months. $15,000,000 was 750,000 troy ounces of fine gold. H.M. government claimed the meat was packaged for troop rations and would be transshipped from Denmark to Germany. In fact, they used the same tins the British specified for their own use. That was convenient as the British kept it. Nevertheless, fences were mended quickly. Compromise agreements were reached whereby neutrals could get American cargoes but only at pre-war import levels. In practice the British bought as much as they could, especially considering their shipping losses. They would sell what they didn't need to the neutrals which guaranteed they knew what the neutrals were getting. I doubt the British got any more canned meat from Chicago though.

Appropriate somehow that this was released on the 115th birthday of HMS Dreadnought.

*Gets giddy about a video on the Washington Naval Treaty*

As an American, "When is Congress not screaming to the heavens?"

"On a train wreck to nowhere" mixed metaphor award for the day!

It is not true that Admiral Beatty was always a bad commander in surface engagements - he was the best when the enemy fleet was comprised of budget cutters. I will get my coat and hat. ;)

While historians discuss the technical details the vast population of the world breathed out a sigh of relief. The battleship race prior to WW1 was considered a cause of the Great War and people everywhere were glad the great powers agreed to limit their war making ability. You have to imagine what it was like for the survivors; no more slaughter, no more death by famine and disease and hopefully with the League of Nations, an end to war once and forever. The one thing that no treaty could do was prevent people like Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin from coming to power as dictators. It would take another war twenty years later to prove that real peace involves more then a treaty written on paper.

20:17. Lost the 14inch main guns while out fishing. Honest.

Drac, I love how you can hear your trying to keep a straight face when reading, 'shall be acquired by, or constructed by, for, or within the jurisdiction of, and of the contracting powers.' I can barely do it.

Last time I was this early the Ottomans still had a navy...

I feel weirded out seeing the "photos" of ships that weren't actually built.

Article XVII: "LOOKING AT YOU, GREAT BRITAIN..." Article XVIII: "LOOKING AT YOU, GERMANY. No, we don't care if you're not a signatory. We're still looking at you."

One consequence of the Treaty was that, to honour the RN's tonnage requirements, the Royal Australian Navy had to scuttle, and not replace, its only battlecruiser, the first HMAS Australia.

This video is perfect timing I am in the middle of writing a college essay on USN cruiser development post ww1. Now I know even more about the treaty that influenced them and have some sources to cite.

Will watch later, for now have a like.

Only Drach could make TREATIES interesting and fun. Nice work!

Every naval power: You need to follow the treaty, but not me.

I just love the personal vendetta the British had against submarines going into this treaty.

13:04 - - - Listen after that moment, it is good that Drachinifel reminded this. The Americans installed microphones in the rooms where the Japanese delegation was living. They knew exactly what were the limits for a compliance from Japanese, and what would be too much for the Japanese to be accepted. They set the limits of the agreement exactly at the limit that the Japanese delegation would be willing to sign (reluctantly).

When i Imagine how great it will be if drach were to make a episode on Washington Naval Treaty. Truly a surprise for me.

If I may, could I request the long-awaited part 3 of the life of Lord Admiral Horatio Nelson?

This is definitely one I've been looking forward to seeing more of. The concept of arms limitation in an era before nuclear weapons is just fascinating.

I wounder if you could do something on the development of Japan's carrier strength. It would be interesting to see how they went from enough tonnage for 3 carriers to a 6 ship Kidō Butai along with the odd assortment of light carriers.

Thanks Drach, I really liked this video. After being one of the co-authors of a paper on the history of US cruisers I really thought I knew the Washington Treaty fairly well. But, I had no idea that water in the side protection system of the Nelson class battleships was not counted in standard displacement. Surely this was salt water and therefore couldn't really be used as reserve feedwater? But of course, from a sea lawyer's point of view, water is, well, water. Great summary of a complex, messy political action that was as hot in its way as Jutland.

Ah yes The, no-G3-or-N3-for-you Naval Treaty Damn this treaty!

The fact of all nations agreed to the treaty but do their best to find a way to cheating is hilarious 😂

I'm amazed that you can make such a dry topic so entertaining.

British: We're making an agreement so that navies must abide "fairly" to these rules in ship numbers and what to build. *Pinky swear?*

Excellent - an hour of Drach, that will make my shitty morning a LOT better

Was strangely excited to see them referred to as the West Virginia Class instead of the Colorado. Seems far more fitting for the former flagship to carry the name of the class.

YES! Been looking forward to this for so long! I'm surprised that this was not covered earlier, because interwar naval development was pretty much dictated by this conference and the London Naval Conference

Damn thought I was early as I.just got a notification. Who's in charge of KZfaq signals these days? Seymour?

"wanted to play at the top level, but its economy simply couldn't support these expenditures long term" so me in warthunder?

Awesome! Been waiting for this discussion awhile now, thanks Drach!

I've been looking forward to this episode, after the treaties being mentioned so often in all the other episodes.

Excellent work as always, Drach!

I learn more from these videos than any other popular history source.

Drach's theme song doesn't have to go so hard, but we're all here for it. And the top notch content

Oh hells yes, I have been looking forward to a full in-depth Drach video about the Washington Naval Treaty ever since the human-voiced videos started! And thanks for providing so much longform content. You spoil us with the Drydocks and wednesday videos; I've been indirectly absorbing so much general geopolitical history in addition to the specifics of naval history.

Drac You mention the immediate effects on the navies but I think one elephant you didn't mention was the impact on shipyards and related capacities. True from what I've heard Britain did do some subsides of key capacity [especially armour plate and big gun turret] until about 1930 but that lapsed after the depression started which along with the continuation of the building holiday meant that Britain suffered both a drastic lack of capacity when the run up to WWII started as well as a hell of a bloc obsolescence problem with the old battlefleet. The US had some of the same problem but they of course had a larger economy to recover with and were far less threatened than Britain was and had a couple of additional years to prepare for war. Japan got a vital pause from what was as you say a disastrous policy - even before the 23 quake - and was able to redirect its construction, with more emphasis on CV in the run up to war.

Thank you, Drachinifel.

Great video, thanks Drach!

This is gonna be great!

Extremely good video! Perfect insight to the circumstences of the most important naval treaty.

Brilliant video Drach! Thanks for the time and research put into this.

Nice to see this detail on a complex, and influential, treaty

Great video with a very comprehensive explanation of the treaty.

The fun title could have been: "The Washington Naval Treaty - The parties, the drinks, the dances, the socializing..." ;-)

Great vid Drach.

Nice breakdown Drach.

This is the one I've been waiting for

Since strategic analysis is ultimately most important of all, breaking up the Anglo-Japanese alliance may have been the worst of American decision of all, since there was no chance that said alliance would ever be used against the USA, and ending the alliance helped the Tokyo Hotheads overwhelm prudent leaders like Yamamoto by the 1930s. The old British alliance was probably the single most important factor that might have taken the wind from the sails of the anti-European Southward Advance faction, and the USA eliminated this vital guarantee for peace in Asia.

Fascinating vid Drac, much obliged from distilling it down for us.

Thanks for posting, was looking for a good breakdown on the subject.

Ok, time to do an epic gamer move! *rips up naval treaty* *lays down 10 battleship hulls* *gets stern warning from UK* *ignores* *UK declares war* *di di mao*

In John Kuehn's book, Agents of Change, he argues that the Bases Clause of the Washington Treaty caused the USN to build the longer legged fleet, mobile bases and infrastructure that was needed to win the far flung Pacific War.

Great video. Hoping for more covering later treaties of this era.

Very interesting. Thanks for doing all of these videos. Very much appreciated. And all of these comments. Oh how I love them....

Even though the treaty was ultimately a disaster. It’s still amazing that they got all these nations to agree to it at all.

Ahhhh yes, the French. Their whole negotiation sounds like a serious delusion of grandeur. :D

Thank you for this video. This is a complicated and important topic.

The video I never knew I needed !!!!!! I was trying to read on this subject but I don’t have great patience for that. But listening to someone else teach me is great !!

I had just become bored. Wait. Nevermind... Thanks Drach!

Huh. I was of the thought that the UK couldn't handle restarting the naval race. But this does make sense with how budget conscious the UK seemed to be with the military. "We could start a naval race again, but we'd much rather not be in debt."

Finally! I had been secretly hoping that you would make this. Hopefully in light of this all your other vids will make more sense.

once again - EXCELLENT post.

France being properly broke and Italy wanting to get Parity with France, - Oh Italy you never fail to bemuse me Also hindsight is such fun when you consider the hilariously oversized Hood and her Fate after meeting Bismarck

Arguably the most important Naval agreement of the 20th century.

Thanks for your excellent explanation of the treaty this gave me a much better understanding.

Unreal, my #1 pick for Favorite topic!

I do believe that I read in one of the Dulin and Garzke books that for the purposes of measuring theoretical displacement of ships, the Royal Navy rounded the weight of a 1 foot square by 1 inch thickness steel place down from 40.8 pounds to 40. Which was a nice 2% gain in available tonnage for armoring their cruisers.

Wilson was an isolationist until forced to fight Germany as a result of the Lusitania sinking and the Zimmerman telegram. Harding admittedly was not interested in foreign relations. He died in office and his successor was Coolidge who was so fiscally conservative that he is the last US president to produce an actual budget surplus

Thanks for sharing!

thank you so very much for this video! i already wanted to suggest it somewhere else

Keep up the awesome work Love the cheese explanation 🤣

Great content, Drach.

I have listened to this a couple of times to get myself to sleep. It's brilliant stuff but Drach's voice is calm and soothing.

"loophole abuse" This means you japan.

You mentioned that Japan thought it needed 70% of the US fleet for a successful defense of the Empire against the US Navy's Pacific fleet. They got 60% instead; would the 70% threshold have made a significant difference in the Pacific War? Or would the larger Japanese fleet only exacerbate the problem of fueling their ships? Thank you! -Erik-

Thank you. Well done.

Very nicely done

"Intransigent behaviour from the French".... What a surprise... 😂

I always wondered what was the deal with the Naval treaties, what was the reason for them to take place to begin with, why would some nations agree to have their navies limited by other nations... and so on...guess it's time to get some schooling with the help as usual from professor Drach and his limitless and unparalleled knowledge about anything naval!

Excellent video

As a lawyer, this episode is DOUBLE fun for me!