Maybe the reason for Ranni's Fingers being so distorted is the usage of the power of the Rune of Death to kill it. I mean, look at what it did to Godwyn. Ranni taking inspiration from the Fingerslayer Blade to make the Black Knives isn't impossible, given that she already knows about its existance in advance, and I imagine she would be in good terms with the Nox.

I think the two fingers were there a long time before Radhan was killed. One has to wonder then why they were in such a hidden and inaccessible place and I think they were there because they were hiding from Ranni. So when the stars started moving again they not only showed us the way to Nokron but by falling on Manus Celes they helped Ranni to find the location where the two fingers were hiding.

I always thought manus celes was the traditional place for the carians to marry at. And after radagons leave rennala was in pain, destroying a part of it and keeping it away from the commonfolk, but not able to completely grind it to dust due to the families past/traditions. Astel would have been able to make his home before the entrance without issue then and ranni wouldve sent her dragon there to keep its eyes on the situation, to stop any other demigod or powerful being from using the location for their own goals.

Adula is probably there to keep the fingers in place. There was clearly a back exit to the hole. The tunnel was probably an attempt to escape the cathedral. But with a dragon keeping watch, the fingers ended up stuck there. Which means it was already there well before Radahn's death. I think the whole cathedral might relate to some failed plot of Ranni's. My guess is an earlier failed attempt to kill the fingers. I'm not sure why that necessitated building a cathedral for them. But there's a lot here that we're missing. My guess, she tried dropping a baby Astel on the fingers and that's why there's a hole in the building and the fingers look kinda mangled.

My idea for the existence of Manus Celes was that since the church of vows was created to represent Radagon and Rennala’s marriage, Manus Celes was made to honor the marriage between Ranni and whoever she would eventually be betrothed to her (they built an entire cathedral since this would essentially be the marriage for the next god and the next elden lord after Marika).

I believe the fingers are the "Manus Celes" meaning the Cathedral was made around the fingers. I think they were supposed to be above ground, like all other fingers, at the top of the pit. One theory I had was the fingers went down this hole to where you see them now, I would assume, in the fight with Ranni. Who knows if the fingers can fight, or retreat. I like your theory of the fingers and erdtree being fungus, so maybe this path you jump down to get to Ranni and the fingers, were the "roots" of the mushroom. Ranni had to fight the fingers but they kept retreating down deeper. A different perspective is that these fingers are different than all other fingers. If the Manus Celes was a higher power than others, I believe the Erdtree/Golden order would have waged war on them. That would explain why the Cathedral is destroyed. Also why the fingers are underground, maybe in a place of hiding. Radagon knew they existed when he was with Rennala, then once he left he would have known where they were to come back and destroy the cathedral and the fingers, but he couldn't since he didnt have the finger slayer blade. So he just put them in the ground, until Ranni comes to finish it, with the proper tools. Lots of ways to interpret that environmental story telling.

I think Ranni's fingers descended long ago before the shattering and the night of Black Knives. I suspect they became significantly distorted after Ranni shed her Empyrean body as they were directly link to it and Ranni. The key aspect of killing Radahn was freeing Ranni's fate which is what finally allowed Ranni to use the Finger slayer blade, which notably can only be wielded by someone with a fate.

Thought: Ranni's Two Fingers are the only real Two Fingers, and the others are all constructs/avatars/puppets it speaks through. It would explain why such a sacred being was so exposed on the towers and in the Roundtable Hold when all other divine figures are hidden away (answer is they weren't, they were always hidden underground). And it'd explain why the others look like wooden, moldering constructs while these are fleshy and alive.

I think what sets Ranni’s fate into motion is the players giving her the fingerslayer blade thus allowing her to… well slay the fingers. Also knowing that the other two fingers are located on top of the divine towers I think it’s fair to say that she brought her two fingers from the tower (where we find her body at the top of the Carian study and divine tower in Liurnia) to Manus Celes. And since we set her fate in motion by giving her the fingerslayer blade and killing Radahn (and releasing the stars) she can then kill her two fingers and start the age of stars (instead of having to abide by the fingers and follow the elden ring).

The timing on this video was funny, because I've been playing Elden Ring again for the first time since launch. Today I happened to finish the Ranni questline, and noticed for the first time that her bloody dead Two Fingers were in that hole (I don't know what I thought it was the first time, I was probably too excited for the DMGS to pay attention). Since the puppet was also covered in blood, AND you give her the means to kill her Two Fingers as part of the quest, I would assume she recently killed it after you gave her the means to do so. She also states after you kill the Baleful Shadow that she is coming for the Two Fingers, to deliver a wound that will never heal, so it would make sense that she probably slays her Two Fingers sometime between you killing the Baleful Shadow and Astel. I agree that I think her Two Fingers were celestial in nature, and were likely located on the dark moon where Ranni cast aside her great rune. Then perhaps in response to her destroying her own body, they likely crashed down from the moon some time ago into the cathedral. Shortly after, I think her Two Fingers were probably rendered dormant after Radahn froze the stars, because Ranni implied that her fate was also frozen. Killing Radahn and setting the sky in motion likely roused the Two Fingers, which then realized Ranni's intentions and how far along her plan was. The Two Fingers then buried themselves underground to try and escape, perhaps by hiding from the stars or perhaps the dark moon. But Ranni had no problem finding them due to their connection, and with the Fingerslayer Blade freed herself from the Greater Will. And because the Fingerslayer Blade prevents the dead from from returning to the Erdtree, the fingers would forever remain fleshy and twisted, unlike the other inert Two Fingers we see in the game which seem to turn into wood.

While we're used to broad caves in games, IRL caves often twist and turn in all three dimensions- a lot like the one the fingers are in. It could be that these two have been hidden here for a long time!

i absolutely just love how this game makes you feel like you’re entering an entirely different world filled with secrets and wonders whenever we went underground. Great vid, Hope you hit 100k soon😁

I figured Ranni stashed her fingers underground to keep them from connecting to the stars. Then when Radahn died, a meteor crashed in the Manus Celes opening the path to the fingers that Ranni had sealed off

It might make sense if Ranni being an Empyrean had something to do with her two fingers being weird, but the ones in the Isolated Divine Tower are for Malenia (probably for her and Miquella) so that goes out the window. Maybe it could be that all the others died, but Ranni's were able to live for longer? Also, one thing that might discount the fingers crashing into Manus Celes during the events of the game is whether the model of the church as seen from outside the Moonlight Altar is dynamic. Clearly the model in Moonlight Altar is fixed, since the Two Fingers are dead with Ranni on them regardless of whether you've progressed anything; the game just doesn't think you'll be able to get there without the questline.

Most likely, that entire part of the map is where Renalla took Ranni to meet her own moon. Ranni having this meeting made her more qualified to be an Empyrean, with or without flesh as she had a source for her own order and would even confirm she has one. Manus Celeste was likely the heart most root to those of the moon orders, in turn in wedding with Radagon it would be disingenuous to not incorporate it with the Church of Vows. Before she was queen of Caria, Rennala found her full moon and dazzled what's now Raya Lucaria with it into its place as ruler, suggesting two separate lives for her. All around Manus Celeste if we still had any doubts, are multiple ruins suggesting a people of the moon. and sorcerers who can fade around like Ranni can. Radagon marrying Rennala, it would be weird if she kept secrets from him. Radagon seeing first hand Carian faith being one with its brilliance would only take inspiration further of the concepts of union which would one day reach his son Miquella, who would further the concepts with his own contagious shine.

I find it really weird that alter is the only place you can see both moons. Its also the only place where the dark moon appears which is arguably weirder

Because of the mushrooms down in the hole, it was my impression that they fingers had been there for a while, but maybe the hole itself wasn't. Like the fingers were buried under the cathedral anticipating Ranni's betrayal of the Golden Order. Then when we beat Radan, a meteor or something crashes into the cathedral and that reveals the location of her TF.

With how all the fingers atop the Divine Towers seem to be wooden, yet the one’s in Roundtable Hold and Manus Celes seem to be flesh, its possible that the wooden ones are puppets of sorts. Perhaps the real fingers exist below the ground, or are in some way obscured. Maybe Ranni killed or destroyed the one atop the Liurnian Divine Tower, but knew or learned that the real two fingers she was bound to were elsewhere. As to why she would destroy the puppet? Maybe because she wanted to hide her discarded body there, and leaving them behind presented the possibility of the Two fingers locating it, or maybe it was just an act of defiance. (I was going to suggest that it could also have to do with Ranni being an Empyrean, but Malenia’s tower still has a pair and if Miquella shares the tower with her like Morgott and Mohg do, its likely a feature unique to Ranni’s tower.) As for the Three fingers theory for Ranni’s fingers, Zullie made a video covering it. The model has no third finger and is likely intended to be vague.

Ranni: “I sayeth this unto mine Two Fingers: fucketh off.”

What happens if you visit Manus Celes prior to Radan's death? IDK if there's a way to get up there without a no-clip hack though.

The finger slaying blade looks very similar to the sacred relic sword, especially the hand guard which is basically Radagons torso

My best take for the cathedral itself: since the statues hold swords that (at least at a glance) look kind of familiar to the great swords the carian queens use as a betrothal gift, maybe this was, were weddings took place. Would fit with the game since we're basically going there to put a ring on our blue god-wife to be. as for it's state, I can and want to believe that it was destroyed by falling stars, just long before the start of the game, maybe about the same rough timeframe Radagon left Renalla. I find it hard to believe that ranni spaced her fingers to be free of their influence without anyone objecting to it and then crash them into a cathedral and murder them for good measure. I think she did hid them there, basically holding them hostage to perform her ritual atop her tower. Later on near the end of her quest I think she comes back to them to kill them and completely free herself of their influence, which is why they look relatively fresh as opposed to any other pair we find. Ranni's ending sets everyone essentially free of the golden order while she goes on that star-searching journey or whatever, something she would not have been able to do while under their influence, on the other hand, killing them while the order is still in relatively full power would've just marked her as a traitor to it. as for how that hole came to be... if we're not gonna question how the gigantic star-skull scorpions from space that shoot meteors by opening portals to the void are always and only found deep underground whiel their larvae state is found in craters (and one mine), so let's also not question as to how that hole exactly formed. I can believe that it was originally a crater from whatever destroyed the place and ranni just dug up a little more to have a proper place to hide her fingers, I don't see them climbing out of there anytime soon and no one sane jumping down there to look, especially with to door-dragon set to "attack on sight". They being down their for a while would make sense with the surrounding flora in the last chamber. Tl;Dr: Cathedral was maybe a place for royal weddings, was destroyed way before the game, fingers were hid there to not incriminate ranni, she came back to kill them after we are basically done with her whole plan. She did not plan for us to come here after all

Regarding the dragon, from the day Vyke stole his girl, he had sworn an unceasing vendetta against simps, which would naturally put him at odds with many of Ranni's associates, and indeed, many denizens of the lands between.

I just realized that although Seluvis made a completely identical doll body for Sellen, Ranni's doll body is nothing like that. Ranni has a very obvious, doll-like, four-armed doll body. I wonder why she didn't have Seluvis create a new body that resembled her original one, or at least create a doll that was not blue and four armed.

I always liked how the finger slayer blade kinda has the shape of the black knife of death as well. both are linked to ranni so it's fitting

I think that the Wraiths were once the citizens of Liurnia who worshipped the moon. I think that they were a normal people until the Shattering - because the Laskyar Ruins, where many of them are, have a portal that goes straight to the front gate of the academy. And because they're wraiths, perhaps they were the product of Liurnia's people being destroyed and tortured by the Cuckoos, but because no one can die and they're not being reborn in Erdtree Burial, they're being twisted by time and resentment into these pseudo-living dead who use the undeparted souls of their fellows in self-defense, like spells.

how Metroid prime music fits so well in a medieval rpg is astonishing

I’m not an expert when it comes to lore but what I got out of this video is maybe the cathedral got destroyed over time from the dragon defending it. Or maybe something tried to stop Ranni from killing the two fingers but they were underground and couldn’t get to her in time. Love your videos I’m glad I found your channel.

Idk I'm probably wrong but the fingerslayer blade just looks so similar to the sacred relic sword, but as if it is broken or unfinished. Since the sacred relic sword is radagon and is wielded by the Elden Beast, who is the fingerslayer blade and how do they hold the power to kill the two fingers? The only person that comes to mind for me is the Gloam eyed Queen since they held the rune of death and were likely a emperyrian, but that would go against the idea of Melina being the same Gloam Eyed Queen, but at the same time the fingerslayer blade is made from a corpse and let's say Melina was killed by Maleketh it could be her emperyrian corpse it is fashioned from. But then again there are many things still unknown, like who was supposed to wield the Fingerslayer blade? Astel? A Dragon Kin Soldier? Or maybe even a Mimic? There are so many things in the underground that could have wielded it, but let's say it is Astel, their powers seem to be similar to the Elden beast like the nebula like attack but different and almost uncontrolled, possibly the fingerslayer blade was meant for a older or more mature version of Astel.

In his video, "What it takes to become an Empyrian" (Amazing video btw), The Tarnished Archeologist speculates that Ranni was arranged to be married to Godwyn. If we follow that thread, and given the Church of Vows was built to conduct and honor the union of Rennala and Radagon, what if the church of Manus Celes was built in anticipation of Ranni and Godwyn's marriage? It exists as a reminder of her duty decided for her by the Fingers and the Golden Order. With that purpose in mind, it makes sense she would block off the entrance until a potential consort came along- one that _she_ would choose.

For player perspective killing Radahn was recent but maybe in game years pased.Maybe our journey was century long cuz tarnished cannot get old or die.Sry for my bad English it's not my main language.

I dont think Adula was acting on instinct moreso acting on orders. this point in ranni's quest is after she acknowledges the fact she has to turn on everything. all of her closest allies besides us(who already made it passed Adula once at the 3 sisters) Have died or disappeared. Ranni probably ordered Adula to attack anyone who dared come close no matter what knowing that we, her greatest subject, can AND already have bested Adula once. Take it as one last test of worthiness since this is the point where we officially become her partner and put the ring on her finger.

The damage to Manus Celes looks more like an internal collapse due to neglect, rather than something hitting it from the outside. I think what makes the most sense is that the two fingers normally resided at this church, but when they sensed Ranni had the fingerslayer blade they burrowed into the ground to hide. It's weird though that the fingers have a cursemark carved into them. The cursemark is half of the eclipse, and as such wards of half of destined death.

Amazing video. Thank you for the content. I always thought the fingers where chilling in the church, and once we finish a point in the quest line, it dug its self there to hide from Ranni heance broken fingers and the tunnel being so different. idk just a random thought lol

I have a few ideas. I think that the cathedral of Manus Celes was built in honor of Rennala while the Church of Vows was built for Radagon. Maybe Manus was built by the Carian royal family and Ranni took the opportunity to hide her two fingers beneath the cathedral. I also believe that the reason why Ranni's fingers look different, is because her fingers aren't tied to the greater will like our two fingers. We see the two fingers in the round table hold stick straight up after we burn the tree, though I can't remember exactly how or when they do this, but when we enter Placidusax's boss arena, we see him holding a similar pose. My theory is that both are either communing with their respective gods, or trying to commune. It wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of moon or star deity that communicated to Ranni through her unique two fingers. We know for a fact that there are multiple different fingers, so it's possible that Ranni's two fingers were either made by a different outer god or if they were taken over by it. Did it get taken over because of Ranni's actions away from the greater will? It's also entirely possible that her fingers got so messed up as a result of Ranni's body's death. I don't know how linked the two fingers are to demigods or empyreans, so it's entirely possible that the night of black knives physical twisted Ranni's two fingers.

Okay so here's a minor to major theory: the Two Fingers in the Roundtable Hold aren't real. They're as illusory as the rest of the Hold. The Greater Will has indeed abandoned the world and the real Fingers, bereft of purpose, turn into wood in their proper place (they might not even be dead, just inactive and decayed). Marika, most likely, placed the fake Fingers in the fake Hold to guide the Tarnished to the Erdtree, so that one might realise the way is blocked and the world is trapped in stasis, and take the path of fire (Melina isn't strictly necessary here, all the Tarnished were supposed to have a Finger Maiden to point them in the right direction then serve as kindling, see Shabriri and Vyke). Once the Hold Fingers has got them to that point it locks up effectively indefinitely. Ranni's Fingers are different however. It was forced away somehow during Ranni's suicide, but did not die - Ranni discovers she needs the Fingerslayer blade to truly kill it and free herself. These Fingers retain a purpose - kill Ranni for her blasphemy - and burrow below Manus Celes, creating Baleful Shadows to guard itself and attack Ranni. It isn't until we kill the last of the Shadows that she feels safe enough to use her puppet body to finally slay the Fingers in its hiding place.

I think the Fingers were hanging out in the Cathedral, like Miriel, but when Ranni & her dragon came knocking they tried hiding/digging their way to safety while Ranni chased them down and messed them up. I think their deformed shape is just a result of them dying/melting from the fingerslayer blade. There's always mention of her following "The Dark Path of the Empyrean", which is an odd thing to say about a caste of holy people meant to be elevated to godhood as Marika's successor. Judging by the massive ruins of the Grand Cloister, I think the "Dark path of the Empyrean" is more like a pilgrimage path an empyrean walks, deep underground, and up to the Cathedral of Manus Celes, (the Hand(s) of Star(s)/Fate?), to accept their position. But as Ranni is defying the FIngers that chose her, and intends to kill them, so she sends us through the Dark Path ourselves to distract the Fingers from her just flying in on a dragon. The only other Empyreans of the age are Malenia, who might've met the blind swordsman who mentored her on this path through the Lake of Rot, and Miquella, who maybe found & was inspired by the Nox below, the ancestral followers above in the ruined labyrinth (maybe an old part of the pilgrimage?), and the ancient dynast ruins of Uhl and Grand Cloister. Marika herself is a Numen empyrean of the old eternal cities. If the Church of Vows is a symbol of the unions of the house Radagon/Marika/Erdtree and Caria/Moon, maybe Manus Celes was a symbol of the union between the Ancient Dynast/tree worshipers, and the Numen of the Eternal Cities, tying themselves to the fates of the Stars/Hand/Fingers?

elden ring lore so deep that my dude says "blasting her fingers far into space" with a straight face

ranni actually eating those shrooms to directly communicate to the outer gods.

ZIOSTORM HEAR ME OUT: (spoilers ahead) What if Ranni and Melena are twins? One gifted with the Holy power that comes from faith, and the other with magical prowess? Melena is the real Founder of the Black Knives (that's why her Dagger has the same Ash of War: it's the original) and the super realistic "puppet" body that we see Ranni use is actually Melena's REAL body that she gave up for her sister. That Big-Hat guy made a puppet body for Ranni using Melena's own flesh ... That's why her face matches in the afterimage. because it IS her. Then, after losing a physical form, she lost her memory. Her mother, Queen Marika (WHO IS ALSO RADAGON), then bade her to burn the tree with her very spirit as kindling, for it was the only thing that could release the Queen's bonds. This bred hatred in Melena's spirit. And that hatred takes physical form as the Gloam Eyed Queen if you make her too mad (I.E. the Frenzy Flame ending. That's my theory LOL I'm sure there's holes, but what do you think???

From what I understand the shattering happened thousands of years before the player tarnished shows up. GRRM had stated as such in an interview. That means the night of the og murder would have been much earlier and could also be the reasoning behind the overgrowth. As for the cave, the fingers could have been trying to "retreat" from Ranni.

The fingers appear almost woodlike when decaying/dead. I think they're literally fingers of the erdtree, roots that grow up from the ground and become ambassadors of it's will. Of course. The tree changes/is changed based on who controls it, say from Crucible to Erdtree.

Awesome theory. I like to think all of the two fingers came form space at some point. Just makes you wonder if Radahn froze the stars before Ranni was born. The mushrooms also look like the ones you see on the ground near ghosts in the game. Maybe her two fingers had some connection to spirits.

I couldn’t even focus on what sellen was saying at 2:31 because of the player ghost presumably killing sellen in their world lol

Manus Celes was probably a coronation ground for Ranni becoming an empyerian and chapel for the union with her consort. This would explain the similar architecture between it and the church of vows as they both bare iconography of both carian and golden order origin. If I'm correct then the moment you find Ranni with her fingers and bequeath the ring would be the intention of the cathedral finally coming into fruition, though not the way that was intended ofc.

Could it be possible Ranni's Two Fingers burrowed their way down there. The Cathedral could have been built as a symbol of Unification like the Church of Vows, and had Ranni's Two Fingers stationed there. Then after Ranni decided to split from the Two Fingers, she launched some sort of celestial attack on the cathedral. The Two Fingers burrowed underground to avoid it or Ranni realized that it wasn't enough and began the search for the Finger Slayer Blade. That could be why it's such a strange looking cave and why so much of the "hand" is exposed on them.

Maybe the fingers were already in the temple whenever it was initially hit by a star long ago? (An initial attempt to kill them before Radahn arrested the stars?) Perhaps it dug itself under ground afterwards to hide and defend itself and have remained there since.

Another link: you meet the turtle pope in the church of vows, and there are three huge spirit turtles up there.

maybe ranni's 2 finger put up an magic barrier like maybe those found on the towers, and the only way to break them is to have a star crash through it. and the fingers then dig the hole trying to hide from ranni

Those giant pillars of light seem important. Maybe giant starlight shards?

The overgrowth could have happened before the stars began moving, and much of it remained or re-grew. Vines are pretty hardy plants, and as an open-world game with who knows how many day/night cycles occur canonically. Every sit at a grace or a return to the (magic/fake) roundtable hold takes like half a day. I like this theory, and so i've decided to subscribe to it. I had though Radahn wasn't too into Ranni's plan and was trying to thwart it before. I like the idea that he was supporting his sister to set her fate free from the Greater Will much better

I'll be honest I always just thought the fingers looked odd because they were facing the wall as if trying to claw their way out or flee. Plus all the other cursemark deaths are shown to be from behind as well.

Ranni waited for the Fingers, the Fingers crashed, Ranni attacked, and the weird tunnel is from the Fingers trying to get away from Ranni but to no avail.

Didn't expect to find this video while searching "Ranni Finger Blasting"

"Do the dishes, or plunge the world into chaos? Very difficult choice."

Ranni's finger blasting is legendary

It seems to me that Manus Celes probably predates the Church of Vows, from a time when the Carians were at war or in a war-like posture (hence the swords). Either way, similarity in architecture isn't sufficient to conclude that both buildings were built for the same purpose, only that they were built by the same people.

Maybe it wiggled it’s way after crashing and started digging with its fingers to make the cave, it’s broken like joints can be from the digging.

Most likely this is where Ranni's Two Fingers has always been located, unless she moved them here a long time ago, since the hole and cave seems to be man made. Either way this is where her fingers were and where it's been operating against her. She knows of this location but needs the necessary weapon to kill her two fingers, which she does, so there can be no restrictions against her when she does what she does in her ending.

The building was destroyed for a long gime, maybe during the Night of Black knives or when Radhan left Rennala. The hole to the fingers suggest it was made when Radhan died, just like the hole in Nokron. Thats why Ranni sent you to look for Nokron. To help Blaid find the Finger Slayer Blade and proceed with the plan to kill the Fingers. The Moon is obviously a seperate Ancient outer God that allows more free will than the Greater will.

"Manus Celes" being another way of saying "celestial hands" suggests, to me, that the cathedral was built for Ranni's Two Fingers. The Greater Will may have wanted to keep tabs on her and Radagon before he returned to Leyndell and married Marika, and setting up shop in Liurnia is the easiest way to do that. I've wondered why this one is so much bigger than the other Two Fingers we see around the world, either dead on the Divine Towers or still moving in the Roundtable Hold. Is there a special set of Two Fingers set aside specifically for all matters relating to Empyreans?

I had exactly the same thought, because the cathedrale is full with starlight shards that crashed down the same way!

could be that once an empyrean was born, the greater will sent the two fingers to govern them, they crash land in to a spot where they then build a cathedral for them

I've always figured that the wooden dead two fingers was just how they fossilized after being dead for so long due to their alien nature while Ranni's two finger is distorted and blue due to having been killed just prior to our arrival.

If the fingers were connected to the moon. Perhaps when radahn was holding the stars in place halting ranni's fate, he also halted the death of her fingers in the process. Not allowing her to completely untether from the fingers.

honestly the two fingers could have been just in the chapel and then when ranni killed her flesh they freaked and realized she was gonna kill it then frantically tried to dig away and then stopped.

Dude, look at the way Ranni’s fingers look and then compare them to the way the three fingers looks! They are jointed and shaped exactly the same! Plus you can clearly see there’s a part of the fingers that seems to be hidden underground. Like a third finger. It also explains why Blaidd went crazy instead of just turning on Ranni like any normal empyrean’s shadow would. (As they would have you believe anyway based on the lore descriptions). I’ve thought it since I first laid eyes on them.

Probably others have the same thought, but what if Ranni’s two fingers, giggity, were “stored” underground, and needed a meteor to break the ground to them?

I don't think we can say that Manus Celes was built for the same purpose as the Church of Vows, that being offering absolution based on a pivotal mending of broken bonds having occurred there some time in the past. Miriel says that his location "came to be known as the Church of Vows." This suggests that it was originally not built for the purpose it has come to be known for. I think we can say that both locations potentially have a link in their origin, but the Church of Vows is what it is because of a unique moment in history that occurred there.

I feel both Manus Celes and the Church of Vows were made previously just for the Carians/Liurnians. I think the Church of Vows was basically renovated a bit when the the 2 houses joined there

Maybe rannis 2 fingers don’t serve the greater will, but the outer god of the dark moon, kinda like how the three fingers serve the flame of frenzy

1 year ago today I took a leap of faith on Elden Ring, bought it on Steam as soon as it came out and couldn't let it go ...to all the day 1 players Happy Anniversary !

Maybe that church is in honor of the two moons. The Full Moon and the Dark Moon.

I like the idea that Manus Celes was the location of Ranni’s two fingers; she might have smote it with a falling star during her initial attempt to free her fate, but failed - she needed the fingerslayer blade. I need to go check the fallen rubble to see if it’s overgrown; it’s entirely possible the fallen rubble is new but the cathedral was long derelict.

I kinda feel like the two fingers were holed up in the cathedral. We needed to kill Radahn to blast open the path to the eternal city where the finger slayer blade was kept, that's really all that needed to happen with the star-fall. I think the decayed state of Manus Celeste is consistent with the decay of all the other ruins, the church of vows is in pretty rough shape too after all. All the star shards I think are more a case of why Manus Celeste was built where it was, the moonlit plateau seeming to have a close connection to the stars and the moon (you can see both of the moons clearly even with the Erdtree trying to blot them out) and all of the rays of starlight, its connection so strong that what you usually need a special astrolabe to collect in other places just falls from the sky in droves. I also think that Ranni just flat out wasn't able to get to the plateau until we clear the path, defeating the Blaidd shadow and possibly also the Astel dwelling beneath the plateau. The two fingers, having likely sensed that its last hitman had just been iced and Ranni was coming for it, freaks the hell out and just digs its way into the ground in a futile attempt to hide. When we find Ranni's two fingers its actually facing away from the way we came in, its digits pressed up against the wall as though it were trying to crawl away from the approaching Ranni only to have the curse mark brutally carved into its back, the deformities in its shape and colouration feeling more like a result of its likely *agonizing* death throes. And having done her deed she sits herself down on the rotting carcass of her former jailkeeper and waits for us to come to her if we A: are intelligent enough to figure out where the ring is and B: want to take her up on her plan to usurp and remove the golden order.

We see the back of the dead fingers. They knew Ranni was after them, they could see what she was planning. The fingers dug that hole to hide in and she found them.

I like how the captions say Korean for carion and america for marika

Alternative hypothesis: The church at the moonlight alter was exactly as the location suggests. A church to the moon. The Carian royals have strong ties to their moons. It would make sense that Rennala the Queen of the full moon would get married in a church of the moon. To show the moon's blessing of the union. And the church's original name would be lost to time as it would be then known for its ties to the union of Radagon and Renalla as the church of vows.

Best guess, the two fingers hid itself because they knew Ranni was trying to kill it. Ranni did something with the stars to reveal the fingers location, but Radahn blocked it and after he dies whatever spell she cast went through and destroyed the temple revealing the location.

fun fact about shadow blaidd is that his blade is imbued with destined death

4:00 I disagree: this is the same dragon that guards Ranni's Rise and it will still attack you even there, right in front of Ranni, after you join up with Ranni. I believe that Ranni wants the dragon to attack the player to either stop them from pursuing her and/or to make sure the player is strong enough to defeat it.

What I don't get more than anything is Astel's presence on the way to the "elevator" maybe when Ranni betrayed her two fingers Astel took them for himself, hence the blue hue and lack of hair. Making stuff up here but that could also explain the location of the fingers themselves; Astel dug the hole there knowing that the only way there was through him. Ranni might have simply flew her way up there with the dragon and the dragon stays by to protect her while she does the deal.

So heres an important question to ask, how do other fingers get to their place. They appear to be bursting from the ground, but most located at the highest points of buildings, can they be moved, at they tied to the roots of the Erdtree, or are they actually shallow and fell just as you surmise? So heres an idea, as another commenter has pointed out, the Fingers and their palm appear to be pointed away. Now one might assume it was Ranni who moved the fingers but how. I have to assume that the Fingers were there, the hole might even be where they stood. However regardless is they were in the cathedral originally or not, theres one simple explanation to multiple mysteries here, the fingers themselves dug the hole. It explains why it wind down in sporadic directions, why the fingers are completely mangled, and why they're so proactive about stopping you an Ranni. This desperate attempt to hide fits its MO of road blocking and resisting Ranni. Of all the demigods, she presented the strongest will to resist their fate, so perhaps even Radahn's fight to protect the Golden Order by arresting the stars was an influential bid by the two fingers to stop Ranni. Its a level of intervention thats only given to her, so the sheer terror they feel, knowing shes gone as far all killing her physical form, they tried their hardest to hide. The destruction of the cathedral is Ranni's influence, the stars crashed down to destroy the fingers. Perhaps that incident is the very thing that alerted them to arrest the stars.

I think the fingers look off cause we’re looking at the back of them. If you look at Ranni’s fingers and how they bend it very different compared to other fingers. The knuckles seem backwards like it was trying to climb it’s way out before ranni stab and killed it.

The fingers we find that are wood had their demigod die before the fingers but Ranni kills hers with the death mark which might be why her fingers are currently in a bloody state. It could be that when the fingers chosen demigod die the greater will essentially sends a death command to the fingers making them petrified wood ie the white parts of their skin. In Ranni’s case she didn’t die and the greater will may have still been seeking her to put her back in a body the greater will could still “control” for a lack of clarity. So she killed her fingers completing the separation from the greater will but it seems Ranni had plans of waiting for someone to place that ring on her hand reanimating her doll form again. The ring is either where her soul was bound or she bound her soul in multiple places fracturing her soul to fit say two dolls, a ring and potentially a spirit that gives us a horse. Who knows🎉

Perhaps the fingers were chilling uptop until the stars began to move, so then realizing they were in danger, they began digging their way underground. Maybe even trying to make it to the underground rivers to hide? Maybe they asked the Astel to protect them? Maybe even the dragon? Which would explain why their back is turned because they were mid dig, giving Ranni the perfect opportunity to finish them off. The frantic digging may be why the fingers are broken. Or maybe even the sudden release of pent up destiny and time warped them, but since Ranni occupies a doll, she was unnaffected. Renalla has basically given up, and would not have otherwise accomplished anything significant during the time that was frozen, so she too was unnaffected. Also weird though how it looks like there may be a third finger. My personal assumption is that the 3 fingers and 2 fingers were all one hand in the past, until they had a disagreement, or different opinions on how to interpret the greater will, or maybe even began listening to different outer gods, so they split. 2 and 3 makes five. Not having seen the other 2 fingers though, its hard to speculate. Further evidence, if you can call it that, is how you use fowled foot items. They have 3 toes, but you bite off one... perhaps there is something symbolic about losing a finger. Back on track though. The weird sense of a significant amount of time passing could once again be fate finally being released, and catching up so to speak. So what seems like days to us, may have actually been [however much time passes between radahn haulting the stars and us freeing them]. Ranni may have JUST killed her 2 fingers, but that pent up time rapidly passed leading to the start of decay, but not quite wood/pretrification yet. Also, since Ranni in a sense died before she killed her 2 fingers, they could have experienced a physical change when that connection was severed. Thats why I love elden ring, the little amount of lore and implications you string together only leads to more questions. Its too ambiguous to know for sure, but the evidence suggests any number of compelling possibilities.

I think the different appearance of Ranni's Fingers is just bound to the rune of the death warping their bodies as it happended with Godwyn

Pretty sure the crater we see crashing after the Radahn fight is Astel, im pretty sure this was even confirmed

Rannis quest is undoubtedly one of the best in the game.

There's a time dilation in the roundtable hold, isn't there? Maybe it was killed when the hold was ransacked in the overworld and then the corpse was taken and hidden in manus celes.

Everytime something or someone "from the sky" fall of do something we get some starry place evwn underground, if ypu look at the tower walls for other fingers there is places in tge walls that looks like a dark space full of stars. This kinda imply that every finger are sent from the sky like the elden beast.

I think Cathedral of Manus Celes it like Valyria a Old Capital in Game of Thrones Great Homeland of Dragons were destroyed by an unspecified nature.

some things to point out; 1. i don't think there's anything that says Ranni was chosen to be an Empyrean. we don't know what an Empyrean is. she most likely was born one, since we know Malenia was, but i suppose it could be something that one could either be born as, or become, since we don't know what it is. 2. Ranni did not organize the Night of Black Knives - at least not alone - we know Rykard helped, it's maybe implied that Marika had something to do with it (possibly was the primary conspirator), and of course the Black Knifeprint is what made Rogier think Ranni was behind "the dire plot", and its item description says it conceals the truth, so she most likely wasn't the one truly behind it. 3. maybe NOW someone has to be a shardbearer to meet with The Two Fingers, but before The Shattering there were no shardbearers on the topic of the Fingers... personally, i'm thinking Radahn sent Ranni's Two Fingers into space to prevent Ranni from killing them, so killing Radahn brought them crashing back down

The damage to the church, winding path and shards make more sense coming from a star born beast...like Astel. We have 3 or more of the star creatures in Liurnia, on the East side in the underground and then Astel over in the West.

I am pretty sure the church got destroyed and hole got drilled by astel crash landing. The two fingers just seem to have been there for a while. Perhaps they are the reason that temple was built in the first place.

Since the cathedral seems named after the hand, isnt it it likely the cathedral are built around/in honor of the hands

I think most of the visual signifiers tell us they did crash down there some time ago. As for weird tunnel, I always thought they tried crawling away? Would explain why they look so sickly, even tho they have only been stabbed recently. It doesnt seem to me that the space idea is at all ridiculous, because the space is a constant theme in the game, especially when talking about the Greater Will and Carians. The only real issue is the timing, where were they before they crashed, when did they crash and who did that (which must have happened some time ago because of the moss, mushrooms and all of that) Their role in the story is also different because Ranni is different from most of people in the game, she is an Empyrian and is (supposed to) be directly controlled by them and the Greater Will, in this terms Tarnished have much more freedom in this world than she evenr did.

Heres something ive never seen mentioned which might be related: The shape of rannis dead fingers exist on the fully grown star beasts and the astel boss encounters (and their cave hanging non boss versions). It's at the top right of the hole on their skull faces and the shape is too specific to be random.

3:16 the fingerslayer blade looks similar to the sacred relic sword

is it me, or does the fingerslayer blade look a lot like the sword made out of Radagon by the Elden Beast