Since I started watching Theo, he is constantly telling me "You are (probably) using XYZ wrong..." 🐞

The biggest confusion that I’ve seen around this topic is when you include VSCode into the mix. Is not always clear who’s formatting my code. The vscode extension formatting on save or my precommit hook.

These days we expect the tools to be intuitive. They should just remove the styling functionality in eslint. The reality is that it isn’t that most developers think they’re better than open source maintainers… It’s that they never think about the maintainers’ existence at all. Opensource has always had an aspect of putting what you want to have out there, out in the world. But you're doing it without an expectation that the users act like customers or fans.

Theo I've only recently found your channel but man am I enamoured (by your content)! You make the best devs videos that aren't just "tutorial/intro to technology" where you gloss over "advanced" topics and only cover superficial and basic level concepts. You truly make videos that devs want to watch, covering a broad range of topics, making informed arguments, and overall just being a top tier dev (uploadthing). Looking forward to the rest of your great work.

According to this guy I'm probably living my life wrong

So I entered the video, then liked and subscribed, all because of your mustache. Later, after watching the video. I realize it's quite good.

This and Josh's talk are honestly great value. Linting and prettier have always been boring tooling I've refused to invest time into learning or caring about. Being able to grok how these 2 tools interop and when was a huge help for me. Keep on keeping on with the great content!

Great video, only thing I don't agree with is not having a prettier config... If you share a repo with even a small team the likelihood that someone has changed their default prettier config is pretty high. I do believe the defaults are fine but setting them in a config so it overrides each team member personal config is the play for me

While it would be a breaking change, I feel like ESLint would be doing themselves a big favour if they just removed the ability to have stylistic rules in ESLint altogether. They could have a non-breaking change that just adds a warning message to the output saying, please don't use eslint-plugin-prettier and link to that page you showed, or better yet this video.

I think a good reason for having a prettier config is that it pins down all the defaults or whatever configs you like. That way if the prettier team changes their mind on what a given config value’s default should be, you can still stay witht the same formatting as you had before without creating a PR where 7000 files have changed.

I agree both a linter and formatter have their own use cases. However with prettier I often find it to make the code unreadable when the printwidth is exceeded. I have now used eslint only for a few projects and the only thing I encounter is having to decide when to break a line of code into multiple lines. Adding full Prettier for that for me feels overkill

The reason I do Prettier via ESLint is because that's the way I've managed to make things work in a consistent and predictable manner. I hit save in VS Code, and it does both Prettier formatting, and ESLint auto-fixes. If I need to do it from the command-line, it's just a single command I need to run. To check things on the CI server, again, just a single command needs to run. It's maybe a little bit slower, but it works, and I don't have to think about it anymore. Can you make a quick video on how you would set up Prettier and ESLint in a simple project, in a way that it works seamlessly via VS Code and is easy to integrate in a CI build? I would very much like to learn how to make our setup more performant if that's possible, which it seems like it is.

the only thing I format with ESLint are my imports, because prettier doesn't care at all about some details I prefer and the plugin by trivago does weird stuff with the AST of prettier, so I'd rather use the ESLint plugin that is guaranteed to work better and basically does the same thing.

Josh's talk is a must-watch for 99% of people working in typescript projects

I like using prettier + ESlint with most harsh rules and auto fix on save + auto reloading code

One thing that's annoying with Prettier is that ‘trailingComma’ is not set to ‘all’ by default. Trailing commas are really really good for versioning systems like Git, so you always gotta have a prettierrc to enable it. I also like using JSDoc Prettier plugin (it's frankly is a must if you are working with types via JSDoc), wish it would just be included by default. But then, they also completely ignored the request to use tabs by default, which is accessibility concern...

thanks for the tips. i'm finally setup with eslint and prettier CORRECTLY!

what do you think about import sorting with eslint?

Personally i just had really bad experiences with Prettier (Vue Project. That was about >1 year ago. I've spent multiple hours trying to configure prettier for vue templates but it was just annoying and painful. i could give it another try tho)

Hey Theo! Thanks for the video. How you you recommend configuring vscode settings to ensure that prettier runs first on save, then eslint afterwards?

Nice talk, but without a good example of configuration, it's just a talk. Including a detailed pipeline for build and deployment would make it more effective.

They should make the docs better, i want to see in 30 seconds what to install and what not to install. They even put link tags around things they recommended not to install thats confusing lol. We have colors for a reason. The prettier team and eslint team really should work together to make it more clear if so many devs don’t understand what to do. And not every dev is native English which makes it even harder.

In the javascript ecosystem, everyone is using everything wrong. if so many people are using a tool wrong maybe that's a tool problem

Good points on most except for the point about config. This might work on personal projects, but if you are working with multiple developers on a production application you want to have a config file with the define set of rules for that project and also prettier actually installed on the project so that everyone is using the same version of prettier on the project. Nine times out of ten it wont be a problem, but it could save a lot of headache if someone has a weird configured IDE.

Same thing with the Tailwind ESLint plugin, which has formatting enabled by default for some reason. The worst part is that the third party ESLint plugin conflicts with the official Tailwind prettier plugin. Ugh!

I use eslint-plugin-prettier in my codebases, and it has always worked nicely for me. It's convenient being able to do an eslint autofix and have all the fixable lint issues and formatting errors taken care of with one command. I also like the fact that my formatting issues show up in my code through the eslint extension. Though, it's good to know that if my formatting ever becomes slow then this might be why.

I'm using Rome for both tasks in smaller projects and it is really fast. It's not that stable, though.

Cool, gonna take a look at dprint.

I was always expecting that Prettier just uses Eslint in the background, and in that case, it would be better to add prettier to Eslint. But now i am confusing, and will dive into the prettier code to check how it really works.

I'll run eslint --fix on save until I die. Don't @ me.

I'm guilty of using ESLint as a formatter and a linter 😁

Can you share a link for that "deprint" you mentioned?

I can never get these two to work together properly. When both are active in a project, I always got competition between the two where I'd save, and one would undo formatting that the other did. So I just get rid of prettier and format with eslint. It may be slow, but it works and it's fast enough for me.

so how about eslint just deprecate the stylistic component

I got a PR rejected to a eslint plugin repo because I failed to understand this exact point. I pushed to use prettier in our team, and my life has been better since

I use ESLint to enforce prettier rules because I dont wanna manually fix linting issues which are very mechanically auto-fixable, while also formatting my code by Prettier standards. I'll take it being slower because it won't be as slow as me going in and fixing stuff manually. For example, I use eslint-plugin-tailwindcss instead of the prettier plugin for tailwindcss (some stupid thing caused my code to be "formatted" very slowly, around 10 seconds for each formatting. I was told it was this plugin. I switched it, and the slowdown went away). Now the plugin tells me the tailwind class order. I don't wanna fix it if the computer can do it hehe. Prettier can't enforce auto fixable linting errors but ESLint can enforce formatting standards, however slow-er. My projects are not nearly large enough to be affected significantly by the slowdown so it works in my case (if that makes a difference).

You looks like a guy from 1800-1900 century. I loved it.

The pnpm and tailwind plugin!!! I just faced that recently.. Any pointers where to find more about it?

I appreciate the point but have to work on code bases where all the eslint rules are actually formatting rules so you’re kind of stuck in between a rock and a hard place. Maybe I’ll play this to make my point at the next development sync 😅

Great video and thanks for the explanation, Theo! 🤙

I use only ESLint for my project, the only problem I have is a bug on VSCode configuration, depending on the config, sometimes when I press CTRL + S it applies the lining and removes again if I press the shortcut again, and it keep applying and removing in a loop, it's a bit weird,, I think it's related to the config "editor.formatOnSave"

My thoughts are if the linters don’t want you to style your code with them then they should just remove the stylist rules module from the linter. If you cut the head off the snake so speak, it can’t bite you. If you remove the ability to restyle, it can’t interfere with formatters.

So essentially I shouldn't use ESLint to check and force code style?

Aah come on , the docs says it's a formatter not a linter, that why people uses eslint with prettier

What am I doing wrong when my tailwind css prettier auto class sorting works sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t work, this mainly happens when I’m using cva and tv functions. Do others experience on/off sorting functionality?

Prettier wants && and || at the end and eslint wants them at the beginning

Last linter I've used was TSLint, the only ready to use linter. ESlint it's just bunch of rules that want to make Typescript less Typescript, and it changes every day!!, one day I woke up, updated some dependencies and half of the project was red, how can you say they know better when they can't even agree about which hand are they gonna use to wipe their behinds with the next day. It's a nightmare every time I try it, I always disabled it. Bring back TSlint!!!

1:18 - eslint-config-prettier IS NOT AN ESLINT PLUGIN! It is a config. People are messing up those two things as well a lot

Only a few more videos and theo will have his hood on and headphones on top and cursing JavaScript. The transformation to TheoPrime will be complete!

There's nothing worse than having a linter tell you that your formatting is wrong. I don't want to know... I just want you to fix it. Formatting lint errors are PURE noise.

wouldn't it makes sense to have 1 tool you can either run to format or to lint? If you could run eslint either with only fixing formatting or with doing linting i can imagen it can be just as fast on the formatting part?

Can you right a full example?

Me configuring typescript, vue, vscode extensions, pinia, router, vite, (previously babel, webpack), tsx, dotenv, tailwind, playwright, vitest, eslint, prettier... It's good to hear the complexity of the last two things are necessary. Joke. I used bun for several months.

Hi Theo, ESLint 9.0.0 is out (breaking changes). If you have time/will, please make a video on ESLint and Prettier in a node.js typescript project (e.g. Nest.js). It would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance.

If eslint not formatter, why option in vscode to use as formatter ? 🤷🏾‍♂️

great info, thanks. mind making a video how you setup both working together in a project?

Freddy is that you

Thanks for making me/us aware of dprint, need to look into it. By the way, there is also this tool called Rome, which is basically a linter and formatter combined into one. Not sure if I am ready to replace ESLint with it yet, cause I have a bucketload of rules that are probably missing since it's still in development, but maybe one day it can and you won't have to make videos like these anymore :)

Nah, this is an old video, but I absolutely hate prettier and formatters in general. For some reason, there is no way to disable the line width option in any formatter, and it forces your code have line breaks in places you don't want them to. A lot of times, it makes things look worse. As a dev, I trust myself and my team to know when to add a new line and when to keep things on the same line for readability. Following an algorithm will not give you the best readability, and I always get worse looking code no matter how much I try to customize the line width option. Too little or too high gives problems in different places. I still use ESLint for formatting because the newer versions work instantly and actually just enforce style rules without ADDING RANDOM LINE BREAKS where I don't want them lol. Also, the new ESLint separates style rules into a separate package called ESLint stylistic. It's nice.

THANK you, I'm exactly this opinion prettier for formatting eslint for linting

What are your thoughts on prettier plugin for sorted imports?

yoo patreon email gang

I’ll install any extension as long as it’s written in rust

What do you need to manually put by using pnpm?

What was the rust formatter he mentioned? I cant find it

I'm def not pretending to know better than the lib maintainers, it's just confusing to me that eslint supports formatting rules, can apply the formatting automatically, but then they are like "hey don't you dare using eslint for formatting!!1". Why do they build it in in the first place then? Well okay I believe you and will install prettier now ...

Cómo sería una configuración de VScode ideal? Cómo trabajar con el formateo si usar o no formatOnSave o eslint on save 😢

Personally, I am using both ESLint and Prettier as formatting tools. I think that's not too wrong with that. I am using eslint-plugin-perfectionist, it can cover what Prettier can't do

I use prettier to format and just disable linter bc I don’t know or care how to set it up with webstorm.

4:23 People will not listen .. because they think better. This is often a problem of people are being told but not shown replicable proof or reminded of the steps to reproduce the proof. Then there's also overcome peoples bias from muscle memory or willingness to change config files. Configs they may already have heavily invested their opinion into , but never tested and proof would wipe that investment. Sigh.

Agreed. But I think it's better to eslint first and the prettier it, in case eslint autofix will screw the formatting of the file.

Get out my head. About a couple hours ago. I was looking to dump prettier because lack of config.

I don't really mind if it's taking 2 seconds longer than it should be but more than 2 secs are definitely bad. I wish we got a video comparing prettier eslint and the bare prettier one.

Super helpful, thanks!

Theo be cool, there are lots of things not as it should be.

It’s like you read my mind I was about to look into this further and then patron sent me the email

Plenty of (great!) examples of using eslint wrong, but I must have missed how people are using prettier wrong.

The problem is so many framework CLI's set it up wrong in the first place: they enable the eslint prettier-plugin. The biggest problem with this plugin is now you have red squiggles for any formatting errors. This accomplishes the opposite of what prettier sets out to do: allowing you to completely ignore formatting.

Excelent explanation, Thank you

If ESLint is not meant to be a formatter, then why does it have formatting rules? Also, Prettier is not flexible. If you don't like else if statements on the same line as a closing curly brace, you're out of luck. I'm sorry, but there's no such thing as a one size fits all formatter. If your formatting tool can't be configured to fit different styles, and you don't like its default style, then it is inferior. For me and my team Prettier is inferior to ESLint for formatting

Linters operate on semantics, formatters on syntax.

I grew to dislike prettier with passion. Just because some people can't grow up and organize themselves but spend ungodly amount of time picking "the right style" shouldn't hinder my ability to make my own decissions. The "opinionated" part is basically treating us like kids instead of adults and making deccissions for us. Prettier tries to solve several problems at once - format your code AND keep the codebase consistent, without wondering if it should. IMO for superior approach would be a future-reach, customizable, on-demand formatter on the IDE side, so that everyone can work in their preferred style, but opinionated and uniform formatter when pushing to remote to maintain diffs minimal and uniform. No more "bickering" about the code style - you get what you want in your IDE's but the repo is consistent at the same time. Ultimately the style doesn't matter for the semantics... The number of times Prettier made code easier to read was roughly equal to when it made it harder and annoying.

im dying for next stream. need it asap Theo!

Thanks for this informative video.

Incredibly, this is the first thing I was doing right! Hooray, I'm safe 🎉😂

I was talking about this sh*t with some friends a few minutes ago. Thanks

ESLint v8.53.0: Deprecation of formatting rules :)

So we shouldn't run eslint on code save?

here I am using BOTH prettier and eslint for formatting O_o

Yeah.. nope.. In the end these are tools and if a tool doesn’t do what I want, it is slowing me down. I would use Prettier if it wasn’t so (over) opinionated. I want to decide when I keep code on one line or move it to the next. Not based on some arbitrary integer value. This to me is really broken in Prettier and you’ll have a hard time convincing me it isn’t 🎉

Subscribing for the hair.

It would be great to have a more streamlined TS/JS ecosystem that eliminates the need for tools like prettier, linter, and ts configs. Having to learn and configure these tools can feel like a waste of time. 😿

Nice i wasn't using it wrong.

Is this video speed up or are you really talking that fast? 😅

Why on earth is a linter tool doing formatting in the first place lol.

Wait until Antfu watches this video

been doing this for years

I'm not a fan of prettier. I prefer to just let people on my team code how they want and avoid the annoying diffs of space adjustments and fille file reformats. Would rather just see the diff that reveals the work actually done, then prior to merge, run the linter and move on with my life.

While the performance and complexity you mention is certainly there, I never ran into major issues with that in eslint. I'd rather use a single tool with the IDEs built-in formatter rules that can be synchronized fairly easily than run yet another tool that lacks on options. The biggest pain point for me in Prettier is how they intentionally limit your ruleset based on their opinion instead of being a tool that can facilitate any opinions. This kind of elimination of tools saves a lot of time with the automation pipelines even if in theory slower, but in reality there is many other steps involved like cloning the repo and spawning up a new container that takes away the actual speed advantage.

O cara é tipo um vilão do batiman que dá aula de progrmação. Esses gringos são muito loucos.