Commenting so this goes to the top. Theo needs to see this

That is so cool🎉

Can confirm this guy is real

The original point still semi stands I would think where these kinds of things might be hangups for a new language as they get discovered along the way and resolved.

Oh damn, 48h

Think about how only one thing can own some data, multiple things can borrow it, and only one can edit it at any given time. I just saved you 10 years.

That just seems like generally a good practice

yeah but in rust it's enforced by default rather than being a good idea that most people act like they follow but throw away at a moments notice once their idea for how something should work doesnt perfectly convert to code

finna be rusty

⁠​⁠​⁠@@tinrab now I only need 5 years to understand what “own”, “borrow” and “edit” mean in this context

😂

16 bytes per character? Are you sure you don't mean 16 bits? That's astronomically huge, I can't fathom any possible reason why a single char should take up 128 bits.

ex Elixir dev here, just a question - isn’t gleam based on elixir? Based on what I heard from Elixir Wizards pod, I thought it was a superset of elixir, which is obviously based on erlang, which makes all three languages be able to coexists in the same app - although with some typespec headaches if gleam is involved?

@@MrManafon Not at all, Gleam has no relation to Elixir, it compiles tor Erlang like Elixir (but outputting the actual readable Erlang code instead of targeting the Erlang AST), it also has a JavaScript compilation target. All 3 languages can indeed coexist in the same app, there is no typespec headache as far as I'm aware of, Gleam emits typespecs into the compiled Erlang code. I've been using a Gleam package I wrote from Elixir, works great!

@@thunder____ Yes, 8 bytes for the codepoint and 8 bytes for the pointer to the next character. It's wild.

@@EraYaN Ah okay, that does explain the original comment’s mention of linked lists. That still seems absolutely wild and wasteful, I don't think even Python's strings take up that much memory (although now that I mention that, I have never actually checked…)

Pffff… there are C# versions in the 800ms range now

a lot of folks trash java.. but it's getting much faster... and frameworks like quarkus just make it a major player imo..

gofmt's format and go's lexer. Well said though

scanner.Text() copies the contents into a string? i didn't know that! learnt something new again

This is what I like about google style guides in general. They just make one and run it on everything. Can't configure shit, so nobody is wasting time arguing about it.

that was then, but now after the Go 1.20 or so scanner.Text() uses unsafe.String under the hood, do note that even scanner.Bytes() also allocate to separate the main bytes from the returned bytes. Tho I may be wrong

@@miracleinnocent2649 I just checked the docs. You are wrong. It would be a weird change, too. If Text() returned an unsafe string, its contents would change the next time that you called Scan(). That would be _really_ bad, not to mention not backwards compatible with code that rightfully didn't expect it to do that.

They seem to have tied their personality to JS. Gotta find trivial reasons to hate other languages. Bashing on Go for needing to install a package for watch, yet in the same video talking about how the language eco system really matters. You would think that Theo would be comfortable installing libs. Adding dependencies to solve problems is like JS dev's default mode. Go at least comes with a compiler...

Yeah and getting typescript to run is a whole process itself.

Yeah, like I feel like the tooling around Go is actually really really good lmao

There more i learn other langs, the more i love typescript

@@tuananhdo1870 stockholm syndrome

😂😂😂

he shall be 👹

​@@tuananhdo1870 Me too

Trying my best to help the community! 💕

thankfully you can also set this up in python as well (I think it was called "black" or something like that).

There is definitely caching going on. On gen4 nvme drives, it would typically take at least a second to read the file, and probably more like two seconds.

Yeah, I would have liked to have seen Theo run a Rust implementation on his own machine at least (and in release mode, not debug mode, just to be sure).

And with the --release flag...

Eh, I'm a Gopher, so take this as you will, but Golang people don't really care about how gofmt formats Go code. What matters most to us is that there's exactly one way that code is expected to be formatted, and Go does that very well.

If someone has an answer please? Or I'll get back to calculus😂

He probably ran it after it was already cached in memory from his previous runs. I don't know what OS he used, but it probably uses unused memory for disk cache. Ideally, it would be tested after flushing the cache. In Linux, this can usually be done with sysctl.

The testing methods are highly flawed. The OS basically cached a big chunk(or probably the whole file depending on the available ram) in its buffers which meant the next run was not disk IO bound and just read stuff from the much faster ram. You never benchmark this stuff without flushing all system buffers. In my processor design courses we even had to reboot after every benchmark to get reliable results, granted we were timing cpu caches but here you can get away with just force flushing the filesystem caches.

@@pranjalkushwaha197: It’s part of the 1brc (1 billion row challenge) specifications that the file will be fully in the disk cache.

The OS cached the file from the first time he read it. That's why you can't run one instance and call it good for benchmarking. You have to be very careful about caching, and variances between runtimes just to name a few "traps for young players". I have a linux box with ZFS pool on it and 512GB of ram - by default ZFS uses up to 50% of the RAM for a disk cache, so you can get CRAZY read speeds on HUGE files if you try the same benchmark more than once.

yeah its a totally diff way of thinking. also, the language simply wasnt designed to excel in this challenge. its focus (for now) is concurrency and web. i make proprietary CLI tools for a living and fell in love when Gleam as soon as it released 1.0. i have fun with the language, but havent been able to do anything useful with it for my company due to the poor CLI, file, and i/o ecosystem. Im sure this will get better with time though, they have a really great team, and its only been v1 for a few months.

You'll find the advantages of the immutability a good thing once you get used to it. Also, a "copy" is pretty much free because the data can be shared safely due to immutability.

Yep, its called immutability and its the best thing about the language - although it definitely takes time getting used

Yeah, unfortunately, arrays don't work well with functional languages because arrays aren't immutable-friendly unlike trees and linked lists. Though there are pure functional data structures that simulate arrays with logarithmic updates and access like finger tree and Okasaki's random access list

I work with C# and so far never had any moment that considered moving to go. If I had to write some really fast command line, I would first try with C# AOT compilation, and if that didn't work out (it has limitations on language features you can use), then I would consider something else. But probably I would go straigh to Zig or Rust - I don't see Go as THAT much faster, and let's be honest, DX for C# beats Go so much, especially with Rider with some nice plugins. Also, there are some things that C# is just the fastest :D XML parsing is one example, even Rust libraries are slower than the out of the box XML parser form C# standard library

@@Qrzychu92 So I think you misunderstood my overall point. You have code performance, dev time, and experience or "skill issues". Rust, C#, probably Zig(haven't used it so unsure), dev time is generally on the slower side. Then you have the skill issues where it takes more experience in those languages to get good performance and it can be easy to cripple performance, even if unintentionally. If I want to maximize performance I would use one of those languages, but If I only need adequate performance I can get that with less dev time in Go. That's my experience anyway. I can also do it while almost entirely using the standard library. TLDR, less work to reach a higher baseline.

@@gsgregory2022 that's where we disagree, probably due to diferent sets of skills and skill issues :D IMO, C# is one of the most productive dev environments out there. Maybe except something like T3 stack if you are doing a full stack app. Hot reload, nuget (yes, I count that as a feature), single command dotnet build, best on the market LSP (especially if you use Jetbrains R# or Rider, VS is also VERY good), LINQ, library for everything, being able to use the same language for desktop apps, command line, servers, lambda functions, to a certain degree websites with blazor - it's awesome. Oh, and the debugger! While in breakpoint, you can change the code, and drag the "current executing line" up to run the new version without restarting. MAGIC. That includes UI test written in Playwritght for example - awesome. I never used go in a proper professional context, but those few times where I tried to replicate something I already done in C# the experience was MEH at best. Only downside is that if you use a library that is not AOT compatible, the deploy size is around 40MB with embedded runtime. Not bad for a whole virtual machine in there to be honest, but still a lot. With AOT it's usually under 10MB, unless you include some big native lib like OpenCV. So, I stay with C# :) plus it's getting better every single year

yeah I noticed that also, but he also showed his screenshot tweet of it when he was showing twitter earlier in the video anyway lol

I replied somewhere else but I wrote it in deno and got 20 seconds for the line count. Not sure what he did in bun to get hour+ run lol

It is in fact, buffered.

@@Mordinel Not according to the documentation on their website. Says you have to use BufReader to get buffered IO.

I was wondering that too!

And no nulls

squeak language?... you mean smalltalk?

My bindings were broken when I filmed this, I’ve since fixed them

or use vim plugin for terminal commands😅

I think Theo is still talking about pre go modules. Also there is a lot of tooling around the language. We can tell he isn't using `gopls` which would have formatted the imports into a block.