Hell yeah! This is awesome!

@TheCherno, With all due respect and time constraints and all. I feel slightly disappointed that you had to use a 3rd party to construct your networking protocols. You can easily go from Linux to Windows by creating a client and server program and vice versa with using winsocks2 for windows and cygwin network drivers to run native Linux apps on windows. I feel only a handful of us who are insane & hardcore enough to write our own game & physics engines from scratch should also have this same belief in networking as well. Just my 2 cents =)

@@CodeParticles Why? How is what you're doing any better than using a 3rd party that handles the OS specifics for you? If anything, your solution would probably result in less efficient code, because you're reinventing the wheel. And, if it is truly about the idea of being "insane and hardcore", as you put forth, then why use cygwin network drivers? (That sentence doesn't make that much sense btw, but I'm interpreting it as you're using it as a method of portability between Linux and Windows). Wouldn't a truly "insane and hardcore" thing be to simply build your own network layer that creates an abstracted socket implementation built on top of each individual OS API you wish to support? He mentioned that he doesn't have a lot of experience in networking, and his channel caters to game developers - I would argue his choice of using the steam library is actually a very good one. It's generally not advisable to teach the intricacies of a subject you are not intimately familiar with, and a 3rd party library allows him to cover "how to do it" without really understanding how it works.

@TheCherno is possible to create raw sockets in c++ windows ?

@TheCherno hey great video again. I have learned more about C++ from your tutorials than any other ones. Just a suggestion would mind creating a video on C++ Software interview prep? I'm sure a lot of people would be interested. Thank you.

In C++ your friends can touch your private parts

@@notuxnobux 💀⚰

@@notuxnobux lmfao

Type enemy instead

Java devs dying at this joke

since gigabit it's mandatory. Some 100 NICs also support it as a bonus

I think the standard was MDI or MDI-X or whatever - but yes.

I can confirm modern computers don't require crossover cables to communicate when connected directly to each other. I used rtp midi just fine

Ah cool. I’m still living in the 2000s 😆

@@kurt7020 yup Auto-MDIX.

Linux is good but it is hard to develop games on it. And for a Unix/Unix-like system it is better to use BSD anyways.

@@friedrichmyershow is it hard to develop games on linux

@@joshnjoshgaming Ok, here we go. It seems like you're a fanboy. Let me break it down: 1. Fuck Nvidia. With that out of the way 2. No major engine support. Although, I don't use engine and go low level most of the time, there are times where I use an engine for quick implementations. 3. No debugger. "Oh but that's an IDE thing". No. Linux just particularly sucks at providing an IDE. I use Emacs, even on Windows but I still use Visual Studio for its debugger and LSP. There's nothing like it in the market. No. Jetbrains doesn't come close 4. Collaboration. You know, when you have a job, you don't work on your own. Developers work with you. To make the best of your time, remove the OS barrier. 5. Why would I bother about Windows? Because everyone plays games on Windows so why would I develop on some platform and fix errors on something else? One tool doesn't fit all. I've been a hardcore linux user for like 5 years. Loved it. But the support isn't there.

@@friedrichmyers i asked a simple question, douche, way to make assumptions and be rude for no reason. also, its clear you go "low level" (xD) cuz I don't know what engines arent supported, unreal godot and unity all have full linux support.

Godot!

That's pretty easy conceptually :) I write c++ code on windows that compiles for linux and windows. I am at the network level so a ton of my code is low level and OS dependent. All you do is make a platform specific layer at the very base where you wrap all platform specific code under the same functions. Then you just configure your compilation params to only compile the files for the target platform. You can do this via cmake config params, in visual studio you can make different build targets. etc. An example is this: Windows_Platform.h int platformIndependentCode() { do something windows specific; return value; } Linux_Platform.h int platformIndependentCode() { do something linux specific; return value; } main.cpp int main() { platformIndependentCode(); return 0; } then compiling for linux would be: g++ main.cpp Linux_Platform.h this clearly wouldn't work and is a loose example, but that's how most do it. They wrap it all up in the same function redefined for each system. You can do the same thing using defines. Something like this: Platform_Secific.h #ifdef WINDOWS int platformIndependentCode() { do something windows specific; return value; } #else ifdef LINUX int platformIndependentCode() { do something linux specific; return value; } #endif for this method, you can define one or the other. Obviously this needs cleaned up because you could end up defining both and blah blah blah errors errors bugs right? But you get the basic idea I hope. Let me know if you have questions!

@hawks3109 bro your discord? I want to have some discussion over this you

I recently graduated with my bachelors in Computer Science. At my school they did not cover it well. There was very little programming. We mostly learned about the OSI Layers and protocols. Which I think is valuable and it is worth knowing, but we certainly did not learn what we needed to learn to be good engineers. Luckily great resources like Cherno exist- so here I am! TL;DR: I believe you. I do not think my CS education covered networking very well.

You're right, Marcin. Meanwhile, could you please suggest a learning path (preferably with a few online tutorials) that traverses from fundamentals to expert level knowledge?

I tried to get into c++ networking to early in my learning and it about made me have an aneurysm. It baffles me how c++ is so far behind here

​@@sirsneakybeaky Honestly it helps to be compelled into using lower level functions to provide a service. You learn a lot more about the system under the hood and are more able to anticipate problems or possible complications later on. I made a webserver in C before and I learned a metric ton about networking that I wouldn't be able to had I not ventured out of my comfort zone. (The entire outside world of which happens to be anything that has to do with networks haha)

then the `export LD_LIBRARY_PATH...` step also wouldn't be necessary

I can only agree with you

Agreed. I got a job at Tesla because of this man.

+1

+1

(Joking clearly.... glad to see some awesome networking vids on this channel)

You don't want to just "reliably send mover udp" though. Sometimes you need reliability and ordering, sometime you just need reliability without necessarily ordering, but most of the time for any real-time application like a game, what you want the most is just the latest one reliably, not caring about lost messages when a newer have been sent. Then, there are various strategies to archieve that to various trade-off of latency and bandwidth, depending on your bandwidth needs. (the most efficient trick for low-latency game networking is a lot of redundancy, because you want the lowest latency possible and the bandwidth usage is usually pretty minimal).

@@Kazyek i understand that, i do that at the application level using a tick system, each packet is associated with a tick and I can decide how to handle out of order packets. My point was you can find libraries thay implement the low level transports already and writing them yourself is usually a waste of time unless you have some particular requirements on how the messaging works.

@@phee3D Your point is wrong though. That particular requirement of wanting a mix of reliable communication and minimum-latency communication comes up in any fast action game. I would say though, there could easily be a networking library specific for games that could expose the right interface, I haven't investigated that. It's also really simple to develop, it's barely an afterthought compared to how you actually architect a game when networked: everything needs to eventually be unified on an event stream regardless if caused by network, user input, game script, response to detected events, "ai" input, etc. then you have to build the game logic underneath that layer. That's without considering the tick rates of concurrent threads, or if you're lock stepped, what your interpolation/extrapolation method is, how the actual architecture works (p2p, single server, or more like an mmo), if the server has complete authority over all actions or if there is some client event triggering with heuristic checks, or so many other strategies. Writing some boiler plate standard code to move bytes is not an issue or difficulty whatsoever.

@@Bozebo you didn't understand what I said. I never said you don't need a mix of reliable communication as well as fastest possible communication. I said these libraries should perform the following functions: send message, send reliable message over udp, receive message. By "send message", the first one in this list, I meant just sending messages as fast as possible, without considering any reliability. I myself am currently making a game where I use unreliable message sending for things such as player position and I also use reliable messages for events such as player death.

Yesterday only I learned how to build a simple server using javascript with the help of nodejs. How different will be building a simple server in C++?

why dont you like boost

@@RAHULTMNT100 I don't want a dependency on a rapidly evolving library. Asio library is pretty stable.

I searched for Networking TS and it seems that no one is currently working making the changes necessary to get it into C++26. Is It still being worked on?

​@@not_everthat happens in C++ committee quite a lot, you can never be fully sure that you'll get that feature in c++26

me

If you're watching for pure enjoyment that is perfectly fine, but just make sure you don't get overwhelmed. There are many years between a new programmer and all of the advanced topics he covers in his videos. Definitely cool to see the "endgame" but make sure you focus on the basics as well! Good luck with the journey :)

@@cyberchef8344 Thanks for the encouraging words! I will indeed take things step by step :)