I have never in my 70 years on this planet heard a handful of people dive this deep into the structures of humanity and life itself. Thanks Nate. We need a billion more folks like yourself and Dan!!!

I had to grin at the many attempts by Nate to force the conversation to AI when clearly Dan was carefully laying the groundwork to ensure it all lands.

This is really good, and explores in great detail that there is not an AI alignment problem, there is a human alignment problem.

I cannot absorb knowledge from these two individuals fast enough. If I had to choose one single word to describe the experience of listening to these two brilliant minds discuss what I consider to be in large part the purpose of human existence for hours on end it would be "INSPIRING". I believe that if I spend half of the time on social media watching Daniel and Nate, along with all of their colleagues, as my wife, bless her poor soul, spends flipping through tik tok nothingness I will obtain PHD level knowledge inside of a year. I've never been interested in learning about wealth or investing or the pursuit of money and therefore I have none. It's always felt counterproductive to me so I just don't care. But I've always felt that I'm of way above average intelligence and these discussions are about the only thing that gives me any hope at all.

I don't think I've heard Daniel say the same thing in the same way twice. And I think I'm up to 3 days of Schmachtenberger watch time.

After listening to this talk, I have determined my brain is as smooth as a marble.

I have for a long time thought of myself trapped in an ant's nest that is becoming a death spiral. Multiple algorithms coalescing into self-destruction. This conversation was immensely interesting and actually gave me hope that people with both intelligence and compassion are thinking about these problems.

The perspicacity and sincerity of this conversation makes the "deliberations" that occur on Capitol Hill sound like kindergarten chatter. The most powerful nation that ever existed is being overseen by spoiled brats..

This idea of restraint reminds me of David Attenborough's concept of the Amazon Rainforest as a 'mature' forest, which no longer has to get bigger - because it has all the resources it needs within itself and therefore doesn't need to consume any external resources. He suggests that humanity today needs to become 'mature' in that sense. It made a lot of sense to me ...

One of my favourite podcasts for some time. The confluence of Daniel's and Nate's holistic awarenesses is adding dimensions to both their journeys and enriching the experience for all of us. Thank you both.

You both let me crying not for the threat you're exposing, which is actually a good reason for crying, but for the emotion and humanity that you express at the very end of the interview. Keep doing your incredible work, Nate; keep inspiring and spreading yourself, Daniel. We need these conversations to spread out. We need to change so much, and we need to try it even not knowing if we're actually gonna succeed in the process. But nobody knows, and since "this is the time we're alive" (as Nate says at the end of the interview) we better occupy our Time, realizing the privilege we have of being here, leaving the "I" behind moving towards the "We". Surrender is not an option. Greetings from Buenos Aires.

Wow. This podcast was incredible. I only very recently came across Schmachtenberger via the AI topic and I am very glad that I have. This discussion affected me deeply. I don't think I've ever heard such a good and logical explanation of human progress and the state of the world. To be honest I have spent the past years in a kind of apathy as a political being because of where humanity seems to be headed and even though the outlook presented in this podcast is just as bleak as my own intuitions I feel it has still somehow given me a renewed sense of understanding of what we can do and what we should do. I very much hope that the both of you will further expand on the topics discussed in future episodes. I would, for example, love to hear a more in depth discussion about wisdom and perhaps on if and how we can attain and apply it.

One of your most important podcasts. Thank you! I hope you two will continue to share your conversations with us. Nate, please consider talking further with Daniel (and others) about various Wisdom paths, be they Stoicism, education reform, Wisdom schools, Gurdjieff practices, meditation/prayer, psychological approaches, elder storytelling, etc etc. I’m likely wrong, but in my mind our species’ lack of wisdom paired with far too much surface cleverness is the primary cause of our many predicaments. We are all in trouble. No better time to finally grow up.

Only The Schmachtenberger can use profanity in an elegant way. Love this dude. Love you too, Nate! Nate's always asking the questions that pop in my head at like the same exact time. :-) What a team you too make! Thank you so much for this!

I recently made this observation in my personal notebook/"diary" : "The vast tome of historically accumulated human wisdom has been severely undermined by ever-concentrating nodes of wealth and power. The well-being of the entire world has been sacrificed to the 'god of mammon'. Most of us are just along for the ride."

One can hope that the fact that conversations like this can be heard by thousands plays a role in getting us to where we need to go. Thank you both.

I am shaken by the analysis because I am a dialectic materialist of some sort and I look back at what humanity does with 'Historical Levers' like this (and AI might be the most powerful lever of history in History) and it always leads to atrocity, war and pain. It hurts me to feel in my bones that what you're discussing will probably become a salient conversation post-war. In my lifetime I will see a war and massive atrocity over this and not much hope. We might completely destroy ourselves, but even if we don't, we won't be here to see the recovery, whatever recovery you are discussing in the most hushed tones, now.

Like in the “Don’t Look Up” movie, despite the grim chances of humanity surviving this filter if you follow Dan’s thinking to its logical conclusion, I’m with Jennifer Lawrence’s character in the last dinner to be in a position to say “I’m grateful, we tried”… I hope there is a Call to Action that us regular citizens can do to try.

God I love you both, I held off on watching this so I could sit down for the whole thing in one go. I was concerned I might get bored but the opposite was true, I could have listened to 3 more hours with intense interest. I thank you both for your service to humanity by having conversations like these ❤❤

so grateful for this interview & Schmachtenberger! The world needs philosophers more than ever now & I'm here for it!

These long discussions are excellent, allowing time for the listeners to ruminate, really think about things, and for the host and guest to delve deeply into the subject matter as well as digress into related material... bravo!

Damn the end hit really hard. The "solution" is both coming out of the cave and returning back into it. I feel the role of mythos is also somehow important. Really great discussion.

Every time a humbling experience of my own insights and knowledge listening to Nate and Daniel. These conversations are truly gifts to our world. Like good music, good food.. Essential for the understanding of life, love and all the other aspects that are there..

Every time I see a new episode with Daniel in my feed, I know I'm in for a great treat! Looking forward to this one!

This is THE interview, a carefully curated monologue of a Supergenius (DS), beyond great. It is white-hot, pure-insight. It is a gift. Thank you both!

I am even more worried after this conversation, that human "civilization" is not capable of the necessary paradigm shift, to match the scale of technological advancement... but I want to be an optimist, so I'll assume we will make that seemingly unlikely LEAP! Great work gentlemen, you're both incredible thought leaders, THANK YOU!

dangit, Nate, we're happy to hear 3 hours of conversation! That's why we follow you. We are a different kind of "student" than the ones you may be used to teaching in a classroom setting. We want to be here, listening, learning, for as long as it takes.

Mary Shelley's novel "Frankenstein" is more prescient than I ever could have imagined. After listening to this conversation I am almost catatonically dumbfounded. Almost. I think that I will now go eat a huge batch of french fries, devour several cheeseburgers (with the "works"), and quaff a 12-pack of imported lager. Holy shit !

There is no more egregious example of misplaced priorities than the comparison between America's "Defense" Department and its Education and Healthcare Departments. That discrepancy is so glaringly obvious and so heartbreakingly disconcerting that I have become ashamed of my own country.

It was so satisfying having some of my diffuse thoughts elegantly formulated into actually sense full sentences 😅, that was the 1% and I learned so much through the other 99%. Thank you, you brains !

All things considered, and realizing how unflattering it might sound, would it not be accurate to say that homo sapiens have BEHAVED exactly like a pernicious invasive species? I believe that if we were talking about some OTHER organism that had exhibited similar behaviors to our own, we would recognize the deleterious phenomena immediately. I would love to hear Daniel Schmactenberger's observations on that question.

we need more people to start thinking about A.I like Daniel Schmachtenberger. It is one of the only ways we can avoid the coming calamity.

These are some of the most relevant and insightful conversations available on KZfaq. Great work gentleman.

Nate, you are a very good human being. Your humility and willingness to ask basic but profound questions is very powerful. Thank you for your service to all of us.

Jiddu Krishnamurti's and Dr. David Bohm's conversations are my life saver videos and I listen to them all night long. I go to sleep with those conversations.

I love long videos and don't even listen to anything that is shorter than half an hour. 😂 I could listen to your enlightening conversation all day, even though it is very depressing. I hope you know that the long beginning part of this podcast will make many people stop listening, and they will never get to the core. I understand how crucial it is to understand all the basics, so I suggest a remake of this topic by starting with something that grabs the attention of the listener with a short attention span and then continue to unfold the introduction. If the goal is to get this information out, a better communication strategy should be implemented. Thank you for doing all this!!!

Talk about burying the lede. I'm glad Nate understood the implications of AI resource rapaciousness and impressed that he clearly needs some time to metabolize what that means. Get out there and enjoy what you love, everybody. There's not a hell of a lot of time left in which to do that.

I was only saying just today with a colleague about the need to combine speaking about the socio-envrionmental impacts of AI with outreach on energy descent planning. These are related as it is all part of the same 'superorganism' as you put it. Going to make a big cup of joe now and tuck in for the next three hours! Well done you two!

Daniel, you must meet Michael Levin and Nate should invite him on the show

Well done with this conversation. I believe that this has most of the right perspectives such that almost 90% of people working with proper translation will appreciate the reality of our lives. Will be sharing this everywhere I can. Thank you

When I saw this was 3 hours long, I thought ok I'll absorb this conversation in bites, but here I am, half way through and totally absorbed. Great stuff guys!

I have read/heard similar concerns about GAI over the years, but, like many others here I was surprised by the pace of progress on AI. If you asked me in 2008 I would have insisted that industrial civilization would have collapsed before AI could realistically pose a risk to humanity. Humbled as ever to have encountered your wisdom Nate/Daniel. Please keep doing what you are doing.

An incredible and difficult 3 hours. I listened twice and will listen again. I have to say that I couldn't sleep after following up on the interview with Eliezer Yudkowsky (referenced in your show notes), and am now listening to his conversation with Lex Fridman, which is even more haunting. I think you are right Nate, AI is the immediate threat (and per Yudkowsky there is no way to "turn it off" if and when it starts to go rogue). I am just trying to catch my breath and take this all in. The Great Simplification is ever evolving as a deep, challenging and critical resource and lifeline in darkening times.

Great episode! For reference the term "Chesterton Fence" refers to G. K. Chesterton (author of 'The Man Who Was Thursday') who I believe popularized the idea as part of his defense of conservative thinking. I think we all grew up in a time after a lot of fences have been torn up (sexual revolution, digital revolution) which really warps our world view and makes it harder to orient what the best way forward is.

I can't thank you enough to have had the chance to listen and be schooled by this wonderful interaction between you two. You gave me the key: It's wisdom that brings forward moderation. Thank you, thank you thank you!

Is not unmitigated greed a form of "narrow intelligence" that is undermining the entire human experiment? Those with the most wealth have the most influence on the direction of life as we know it. Are not narrow pockets of greed determining the fate of humanity itself, and possibly the fate of the Earth itself?

Smachtenberger gets to the real deep root of our predicament in a way I have not found anywhere else. Thanks for this it was great. I will be thinking about it for as long as I can go on thinking.,

These two guys make me proud of our species. It’s like, even if we don’t make it, at least we don’t have to go down thinking none of us saw and understood the greater landscape.

This was such a satisfying conversation to listen to. I am founding The Center for Deep Intelligence whose mission is to Protect, Prepare, and Steward humanity through the age of AI. And to do this, I am educating others exactly in the way that you describe - to connect with, commune with, what McGilchrist would say is the right brain, the Master part of their minds (the unconscious mind etc.) and how to feel the whole field beyond their own isolated ego identity. And also training others to spread that. I know there are many schools of mindfulness, wisdom lineages already but to have a place specifically designed to support this sort of education in connection to the accelerating dangers of AI is important in my view. I'm very much looking forward to your next video and thoughts on best ways to immerse people in these experiences, understandings, and wisdom, in a way that sticks and they are not pulled back into numbness and distraction that the world we do live in is set up to do. Which is tricky because as you mentioned, if they isolate and go off to live in the mountains, that's not going to help. We need to be able to stay in society to support whatever changes need to happen as well as we can with the means we have instead of isolate with our newfound wholeness. I'm personally experimenting with this (how much social media, how much screen time, how much sleep, how much interaction with others, community, intimacy, nature, stillness etc.) Where and is the balance to keep the delicate sensing of the field of wholeness alive (once we do the work to even have it in the first place.

Daniel's point about how individual-focused our culture is (i.e. the gaze onto infinite space of Renaissance portraiture, the selfie or the heavenwards-cast glance of Madonna simulacrum, and the selfie-in-motion video "short") deserves I think serious consideration, as this perspective is the one that has been forced on the rest of the world in the wake of the second world war. That the internet has extended, in a virtual 'space' the reach of the individual to such an astonishing magnitude is staggering and horrifying. It is this perspective that is an overwhelming factor among those responsible for the existential crises we find ourselves in, material and spiritual. Saturnine, Faustian man extended omnidirectionally, parallel processing for the Animate god slouching towards Bethlehem to be born.

Instant repurcussions in a small town non-profit: it looks like some of our college scholarship award applications were AI-generated. Ethics, fairness and surprise all wrapped into our new discussions on the board. Glad to have such a wide range of thought leaders of every sort in your fora, Nate!

Man thanks. Daniel Smachtenberger is probably my favorite person on this planet to listen to. Nate Hagens is such an awesome interviewer, great job of letting Daniel zoom the perspective out, and also reeling him back in to answer specific questions. I've shared this with several of my friends, quite the conversation starter. This the stuff I like to discuss.

probably the most complex and profound conversation i have ever heard. unfortunatly i do doubt that we will navagate the peril well.

I don't know how I managed to go until the end but great one. Being into AI development, this sheds a different light on what's happening now.

Raising a hand to encourage and voice the call , mentioned at the end , to discuss the service to whole . The climb may be steep , but with life still coursing through these muscles and sinews , I say , “Let’s give this a fucking shot .” Integrated wisdom is such a wonderful fuel to model civilization around . Peace

Listening to Danilel's arguments is always fascinating. Thank you both for all you do. The solution seems to be a fundamental change in how humanity operates on all levels, politically, economically etc . There is 0 chance of that without a global catastrophic event first.

The "multi-polar trap" of AI reminds me of the preface/initiator to WWI. As a society, we are constructing a scenario that funnels diverse possibilities down to one possible outcome, just waiting for a trigger event to start an effectively pre-determined course towards self-destruction. The invisible hand of the profit-maximizing market (along with other invisible hands directing us to other narrow goals) is pushing us over a cliff.

This passage jumped out at me, and I listened then even closer till the end of the video. QUOTE - Daniel Schmachtenberger "So let's take there, there are clusters of cognitive biases that go together to define like default worldviews, and they're not a single cognitive bias or a kind of a bunch of them. And you don't even have to think of it as bias. It's just like, I mean, it's a strong-sounding word, though it's true. It's a it's a default basis for the sense-making and meaning-making a new information people are likely to do first. And so one of them that I think is really worth addressing when it comes to AI is a general orientation to techno-optimism or techno pessimism, which is a subset of a general orientation to the progress narrative. And I would argue, and will not spend too long on this. So it actually warrants a whole big discussion. I would argue that there are naive versions of the Progress narrative. Capitalism is making everything better and better democracy is science is technology is Don't we all like the world much better now that there's Novocaine and antibiotics and infant mortalities down and so many more total people are fed and we can go to the stars and blah, blah, blah. Like obviously, there are true parts and everything I just said, but there is a naive version of that, that does not factor all the costs that were associated adequately. And there's a naive version of techno pessimism. So first on the naive version of techno-optimism, when we look at the progress narrative, there's so much that has progressed that if you want to cherry-pick those metrics, you can write lots and lots of books about however, everything's getting better and better and nobody would want to be alive at any other time in human history. There's two things that the naive progress [narrative] is missing. One is the costs like climate change on the oceans and insects. And the other is the one-time subsidy of non-renewable energy and inputs and the source capacity of the Earth. And those are not finite. So those are the two blind spots. I think in that narrative, we could say the costs and the sustainability of the story. And so if you talk about the story of progress, particularly like the post-modernity version of science, technology, and the associated social technologies, not just physical tech, because capitalism and democracy, and international relations are all kinds of coordination systems that we can call a social technology, a technical way of applying intelligence to achieving goals and doing things, of which you can consider language an early social technology, which it is. If you ask the many indigenous cultures who were genocided, or extincted or who have just remnants of their culture left. Or if you ask all of the extinct species, or all of the endangered species, or all of the highly oppressed people, their version of the progress narrative is different. And just like the story of history, written by winners or losers, but if you add all of those up, the totality of everything that was not the winner story is a critique on the progress narrative. And so one way of thinking about it is that the progress narrative is that there are some things that we make better, maybe we make things better for an in-group relative to an out-group. Maybe we make things better for a class relative to another class, for a race relative to another race, for our species relative to the biosphere, and the rest of species or for some metrics, like whatever metric our organisation is tasked with up-regulating, or GDP or something relative to lots of other metrics that we are not tasked with optimising."

This was an impressively intelligent diacussion. This guest is very articulate and knowledgeable. Ive never been able to see the evolution of the structure of civilization and society in such a logical and obvious way, everhone should have to bear this. Delicious food for the brain and im only halfway thru.

You guys are so smart...I am lucky to get to sit in.....keep going

Amazing to see Daniel giving a shout out to the work of Robert Miles to bring awareness and great bite sized insights to AI safety and AI understanding overall

Around 2.5 hours in, Nate is really starting to wrap his head around how far he is from actually wrapping his head around the real problem that Daniel has been trying to point to for the whole series: that this SuperOrganism thing that Nate is worried about is actually a hyper-object. It's a hyper-organism (not some enclosing agentic being that we can reason with, but the emergent properties and capacities of all the agentic humans). That's the problem before we include AI. As more agentic humans extend and amplify their agentic powers by using AI, the faster the hyper-organism becomes more hyper, changing not only the current risks, but the birthing of new affordances with whole new risks at an increasing rate. If, as John Vervaeke says, we could teach several prominent and potent AIs to love truth and wisdom, we might be able to get them to help shut down any risky avenues and slow the growth, but I think that is extremely unlikely. To get an idea of how much trouble we're in, think about "Don't Look Up." That movie about the asteroid, where scientists could not begin to explain to the press what the problem is. Now, replace the press and journalists and public with the apes at the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey. We apes have to not only recognize that a bone can be used to crack the skull of my enemy (or iterate for 2 million years and realize we can launch a habitat into orbit) but that we have created a hyper-lever that can crush all skulls at once. Time to get Matthew Broderick to hack in and play tic-tac-toe.

This is one of the best conversations I've ever participated in, ever.

Thank you, Nate. Thank you, Daniel. You two have changed my life and have inspired me to do my part.

Kudos to both of you. Thank you for bringing the whole picture together again! 😢😂❤

Thomas Bjorkman's Nordic Secret cultural retreat schools are super relevant here. What happened in Scandinavia needs to happen worldwide.

Always great to listen to DanielS. Yet for someone who is essentially a non-naive techno-optimist, the focus in this conversation was almost only on what could go wrong. Could you next time explore what could go well? And how it could go well? It would be wonderful to hear a deep dive with Daniel S into what opportunities exist for using this technology to vastly upgrade our sense-making and wisdom. Because that seems like the only viable path to avoid the disaster. If that is actually the path we need to take, it is strange that it gets so little attention: how to use this technology truly well and wisely.

Ive been listening to this podcast for a while wondering when the Unabomber would get a shout out

Fascinating talk, Nate, I hope you have Daniel on again soon. It seems it would of been beneficial if Daniel was the one that talked to Congress yesterday about this topic. I am just now starting to read a book titled "The Hedonistic Neuron" by Kloph that seems to recognize a connection between social behavior and individual neurons. Lately, it seems, we Sapiens have recently discovered how to make a "Lego block" for a brain, that now is able to create it's own "Lego blocks". "What I cannot create, I do not understand." -Richard Feynman (on blackboard February 1988; from a photo in the Caltech archives) -John

As usual I end up taking a week to watch whenever Daniel speaks of the Metacrisis. There is so much to unpack and digest! I describe myself as a Yunkaberger in honour of my intellectual mentors Daniel and Tyson... thrilled to hear he's next in line!

I listened to this episode of the podcast first, and now I have watched this video version. So far, this is the most compelling argument I’ve heard for the existential threats that A.I. poses to life on Earth. Even if we never reached autonomous systems (we will, but even if we didn’t), it is still every bit as much of a danger as nuclear war, overshoot, climate collapse, or any of the other problems we face. Also, I saw an article saying 4,000 jobs lost to A.I. in the month of May alone. This is as close a parallel to Pandora’s Box as we’re likely to get.

If you’re dealing with a super-intelligent entity, there’s no room for error. The best wisdom is to leave AGI on the shelf for the foreseeable future. Govt. intervention is needed. 📃

Still waiting for Bend not Break part 6, but this is excellent anyway. This is sort of 5.5 or 3.5 or some Star Wars Series hijinx of "mega important but not exactly an episode in the series". Great stuff.

Superb aid to clear reflection on the mess we're in. I found myself carrying my laptop around with me all morning. Three hour videos could sure use some topical timestamps.

I feel so humbled to be alive when people like both of you are alive as well!

Heck yeah! Daniel and Nate day!

At 59:08 you start one of the most meaningful dialogues, going into the difference between wisdom and intelligence. Thank you for the talk. 🔥👏

This reminds me of Guiilame’s Archeo-Futurism. And I think a clearer answer is embracing redundancy, like it wouldn’t hurt to understand the scythe as much as the gas-powered weed-wacker, or the washing bucket as much as the washing machine, where innovation travels bidirectionally, where a hand-crank drill can be improved to near parity with the wireless drill. A world of simple augmentations that are as popular as automations. Where the use of personal land is incentivized to produce as much as it is to consume, even if at its base level it’s more like the Roman olive tree along properties on the Roman road infrastructure’s, instead of green lawns with diamond patterns, say 2-3 fruiting trees and a grape vine per home, not penalizing or shaming suburban owners for owning chickens or a few milk goats. We don’t have to toss out technology at all, but we have to really think deep about how it relates to everything about the social part of man. In general around the problem of resources, that is a meta-problem that I think is worth iterative discovery and conversation. In terms of AI, I’d lean again to optimizing augmentation over automation and/or transhumanism’s dystopia of replacement robots… AI should act as a second brain instead of trying to create a quantum silicon human. I do fear though like many things the desire for power will lean toward exploitation like e-husbands and e-wives that aren’t real. Ruined time, ruined experiences.

I watched him on theory of everything recently, and I enjoyed this so much more. Love your questions and intuitions here.

Nature may not be working towards efficiency but rather towards effectiveness. Colors in feathers is an example. We might see beauty rather than utility and be in a more gracious state. We might be smart to be ready to exit in order to allow for the otherness of everything else to continue.

You had me at Moloch! (Fritz Lang's metropolis scene popped into my head). This talk is so heavy, feels so true that I've had to spread it out over a full week.

Omg! I love it! What greater beauty could we possibly experience than humans being incentivized toward their truest purpose! “The whole of self in service to the whole of reality”. Realizing the truth in wholeness or at least becoming aware that separation is an illusion is like a dream come true! Row gently but hurry up...and stay mindful. Idk. I’m excited at the possibility of our species realizing their potential for love of the connection we have we each other and everything else. Can hardly wait to hear the next one! Namaste’

Amazing conversation. Thank you for such a thoughtful and lively conversation. Insightful. Sobering.

That was quite a lot to take in. I am trying not to be depressed with what I did understand. The relationship of narrow bounded pursuits to the growth model is quite interesting. What is most concerning is the potential for AI to accelerate existing agents of growth that contribute to overshoot.

I am so happy this has (at this time) 39k views and so many comments. It gives me hope that people desire such information and appreciate this type of thinking.

Wauw..Daniel Smachtenberger, You did turn all these many words, back to 'silence', the 'silence' in me! And after this mighty strong episode, brought by Nate and his many clear questions about AI, I reached out to 'The Whole Movement of Life is Learning' laying in front of my table, to bring my heart at Home.( J.Krishnamurti, Letters to his Schools) The question did rise in me, would AI as 'the accelerator', not be able to convey 'Wisdom' for us? But again it is my programmed brain at fault, as the 'goal' is just a part and nòt the Whole. The part does never bring the Whole, as the Whole will cause the part to be. Lots to consider though..:-) Thanks Nate and Daniel, for the moment of experience I had, lets move on!

Maybe it’s because I’ve been listening to him all day, but I’ve noticed at times Danial has the same cadence as Terence McKenna.

A truly thought provoking conversation. While discussing wisdom and culture, understanding divine guidance may perhaps now help us unify on the common goal of humanity, for being created as the vicegerents on earth to cultivate and protect it. And to do this while restraining impulses of greed and envy, knowing that we will return to our Creator being accountable for our actions here

So, I've had about 8 hours of Daniel in this conversation node of reality in the past day.... the same arguments made differently.... illuminating, and daunting at the same time. I think widely distributing the tools of AI is actually going to be the safest approach, not intellectually, but instinctively.

Wow, just wow. This was as good as some of the best books I've ever read and I've not felt that way about a video before. This has easily become my new Nate Hagens video to re-watch until it's sufficiently integrated. I swear each one of these videos is like a full college course and take as much homework and study just to keep up.

Love your passion to teach Nate. One of the wisest I've come across. Seems to me that a machine intelligence cannot be even closely qualified within the human experience in any othere way than a super psychopath.

Thank you for this conversation! Deeply affirming , challenging, and illuminating.

So grateful for these timely and relevant discussions. Thanks Nate and Dan for sharing. Kindred spirits. ❤

Thanks so much, Nate and Daniel🎉🎉 Daniel is amazing and clear 😊 I really appreciate intelligent and wise communicators 🎉🎉 Bravo to both❤

I've listened to almost every interview that Daniel has done online. He has a brilliant mind, one that understands the details of many subjects and how everything is connected. He also happens to be a lovely human being. With that being said, and with the understanding that the problems he is addressing are extremely difficult to solve, in this and other podcasts as well, such as Lex Friedman, way too much time is spent describing problems and not enough time on solutions. Daniel does have solutions, so he needs to talk more about them. They don't need to be exact solutions for specific problems, for example AI, but as he described at the end of this podcast, he can describe solutions that are part of the bigger solution, which is complex, that will ultimately lead to solving the AI and other problems. He knows as well as anyone that we must solve the fundamental problems with human civilization if we have any hope of preventing an existential catastrophe. For example, we need to solve the education problem, not only in America, but globally. This is the number one fundamental problem that leads to all other problems. Daniel believes, as do I, that human nature does not predetermine that we create a self-terminating civilization. Rather, we have the ability to create a much better civilization, if we educate our youth properly. Daniel has touched on this in his last couple interviews, including this one and the Transformation podcast. This is what he needs to be talking about more on these podcasts. Even if Daniel believes that educating humanity properly won't get us there quickly enough, the effect of truly educating most people on the planet properly will result in an almost inconceivable increase to the "wisdom" of humanity, and maybe, just maybe that will save us. There are so many other solutions as well that need to be discussed. One thing I've never heard Daniel talk about is the fact that we allow companies to deliberately sell harm to people for profit. I would assert that, if we continue to do this, it's game over. Society must be created as an extension of a tribe, or community. Everyone must be creating something to benefit humanity, not hurt it. For example, if I can grow a vegetable that's highly addictive that will make you obese and destroy your health and the medical system, should I be allowed to grow that vegetable and sell it to you, if only you are willing to buy it and eat it? Of course not! So why is McDonald's allowed to sell their hamburgers? Why is Coca-Cola allowed to push their products on children? Here's why humanity is currently fu*^ed: because we allow companies to sell anything for profit, and shareholders get involved in these money-making ventures, which means that they are complicit in the destruction of humanity. It's not just, for example, big Pharma selling drugs that they know are harmful, and pushing them even on kids to make a profit. It's the doctors who are prescribing these medicines who are complicit, and the shareholders of big Pharma who are complicit. Capitalism is great, and the market is great, but it must be regulated so that companies are not allowed to deliberately sell harm to their customers, as well as deliberately create addictions. Again, if we continue to allow the economic system to work like this, it's game over. And right now that is where we are at. We are currently headed toward an existential cliff, and unless we turn the car around and drive it in a different direction, you can be sure that we will go over the edge sooner or later. When I'm ready, I will start my own podcast focused on solving the biggest problems of humanity, and at that time, I look forward to having Daniel on as a guest. Until then, thank you both for putting this information out into the world and doing everything you can to make our world a better place. 🙏🏻 Mike Rose Intuitive iQ Black Belt

Thank you both, amazing discussion. The three hours went by in a flash. I look forward to the next one!

Thank you both for your extraordinary anaysis of the root causes to the metacrisis which seems to be growing and getting more complex by the day. I have enjoyed many of the interviews on your channel, which I regard as a real treasure chest. However, I do not understand why you consistently shy away from addressing the problem from the perspective of social struggle, which, throughout history, has been the vehicle of social justice. As a complement to the theory of the human predicament, I would love to see interviews with strategists of climate and social justice activism movements.

Love systems thinking. Such an underrated approach to representing reality and society can benefit tremendously adopting more such ways of reasoning. First principles, n-order effects etc. Tricky part is analysis paralysis.

What a fantastic and important conversation. I need to listen to it again it is so dense with insight and information.

As always: Brilliant, brilliant conversation!! Thank you very much! To sum it up in one sentence, what we need going forward is a mindset of: Together for the benefit of All.