Suggestion for all those having professional inst all-get your plumber to also install and manual ball valve in parallel so if the device shuts down inappropriately,breaks etc, you can by pass-also be sure to have them use couplings on BOTH sides of the valve so YOU can easily replace when the tiem comes without another plumbers fee-plumber will balk but make him do it!

Great video as always! Just a note from someone who is in the industrial automation trade on the ultrasonic flow meters, you should get better accuracy is you install the meter at an angle in relation to the pipe, if you install it on top of the pipe small bubbles in the line an affect the readings. Also, the rule of thumb with flow meters is to install the meter in a straight section of pipe that is 10x the diameter of the pipe after and 5x the diameter before any bends, fittings, valves and couplings to ensure laminar flow. That said, I’m not sure if it will make a major difference as 1.5% is already a small error. Looking forward to more content from you and hopefully getting great colabs in getting Linus fully up to speed with Home Automation in his new house!

Nice video, confirmed my decision to install the Moen Flo at both my homes. They are both installed and working great!

Man you are so thorough! Amazing job as always. So awesome you get to do this full time now. There may be a Moen in my future 😁

I've got the Moen Flo as well as their smart leak detectors positioned around the house. It has already paid for itself in detecting some issues we otherwise would not have found for quite some time.

Great video! And, good timing as I had come across the Moen FLO a couple of weeks ago and was considering it.

Fantastic delivery. Thorough and easily understood

Thank you for posting all these VERY informative videos. I know it's a lot of work, I have done it myself. (I have a BFA in Computer Art. ) I appreciate you and all your hard work! Keep them coming.

Thank you for taking the time to make this GREAT content, truly this video was AWESOME.. the only bummer is you were missing some important models in the comparisons. It would be great to see you review the Moen vs. the Phyn Plus (v1) vs. the new Phyn Plus (v2).

Flume just got rid of their yearly subscription, making it the best value at this point 👌

I was worried about what you would say about the Moen Flo as I purchased one about two months ago. Waiting for my plumber to come and hook up our new well. Whew, I lucked out with your recommendation! Thanks for the great detailed videos!

Really well done video, comprehensive comparison of the important topic

Excellent and timely review! I love the way you talk clearly about the different products and explain their differences! The Moen seems very promising, now if they can only reduce the cost, I’d gladly go that route!

Love the videos man. You test things like I would

Amazing as always, some o the best reviews on youtube! I wish you had included the Grohe Sense Guard Smart Water Controller

These were great reviews. One thing that struck me as I'm trying to solve this problem myself: The devices look, largely, not quite ready for prime time / plasticy. The Moen Flo, for example. There are reports that the impeller will fail / magnets will be covered in grime over time. This is for a $900 device. It looks like you'd get a few years out of it until you're dealing with it again, unlike a normal shut-off ball valve. The Flume 2 clips onto your meter and, by the tests in the video, gives really accurate results. No pressure test. You can see if water is leaking to a certain point. This led me to: Why not just get the Flume 2, to measure flow, and a motorized shut-off ball valve? I can then control that using an outlet or IoT device connected to Home Assistant. At that point if any of my leak sensors (under each toilet/faucet/refrigerator/dish washer) detects water OR the Flume 2 detects a leak for a period of time, I can then automatically activate the shut-off valve (which is $70 vs $900 - granted, I have other parts at play here ... Still with just the Flume + this shut-off valve you're around $200 AND I think a normal, motorized shutoff valve is far better built (metal) than the plastic parts in the Flo). To me the win here is: I travel a good bit. I also sleep. If I get a water leak in the middle of the night or when I'm out of town I want it to be detected and the water to shut-off. You could even take this one step further by having a drain valve at the lower part of your house and a one-way valve near the upper portion of your home so that you could completely, and safely, drain the system while your not home (after turning the main valve off) to protect against further damage OR if you're not home and there's a freeze alert... and you're still well under $900.

Another great video, Rob! Thanks for the detailed breakdown of the different options! I've been looking at the Moen Flo lately, and I think you've just cemented my decision get it at some point. We're still in the last month of building the new house, and have a ton of other projects that are further ahead in line. I'll be sure to use your affiliate link when we pull the trigger though 👍

Very helpful and informative. His in-depth analysis was spot on!

Great video as usual. I was on the fence about the Moen Flow and seeing all the research and testing you put into this I am feeling better pulling the trigger and getting this project going. 2 years ago I was out of my house for a year due to a water pipe break while I was out of town. Don't want to relive that again!

Thank you so much for posting this! We had a leak develop recently while we were on vacation and ended up with a $500 water bill, so naturally I became very interested in these. I've struggled to find much information about them until this video. I was very skeptical about the non-plumbed options, but found the info here very interesting. I had been leaning towards the Moen Flo, and was happy to find that you came to the same conclusion after conducting thorough testing. Thanks again!

Good to see your accuracy measurements. It seems obvious that the plumbed-in solutions are way more accurate.

I have the Phyn Plus. Works really well and has notified me on occasion of unusual water running.

Great video, solid assessments of the relevant features. Hopeful of seeing addition of FloLogic soon!

Excellent summary! Thank you.

Great video. I'd love to see an update comparing the Moen FLO to the newer Phyn Plus.

Excellent break down as always! My folks are looking for one of these as this video was very helpful! The phyn would be great for renters

Thanks for the metric system :)

This video is eerily timely for me. I just experienced a potentially catastrophic event when one of my toilet fill valves decided to arbitrarily snap off. Had I not been home at the time it could have cost me thousands in repair costs. Even the 20 minutes or so it took for me to discover the problem resulted in some drywall and carpet damage. I'll definitely be looking into the Moen Flo and Streamlabs Control. Thanks so much for yet another great video!

I live on a farm, and have two water sources (both well and spring). Of course that means there are huge pressure swings, which eliminates most flow monitors as a viable option. We also have somewhat unreliable internet access out here, so I have to have something that doesn’t depend on some corporate API for its basic functions. What I really want is something that I could easily connect to via serial or IP. I’d need a pressure gauge of some kind that reports the pipe pressure (would have to report down to…. IDK… 4 times per second?), and then a relay/contactor/breaker that I can have software order to open, to stop the pump from running (just closing a valve isn’t adequate). Perhaps also monitor the pressure output switch to the pump, so that I can tell whether or not the pump is getting power, and if it continuously has power for more than say 30 seconds, open the relay and raise an alarm. I’ve been pondering how to accomplish this for *years*, but I haven’t found anything off-the-shelf that does this, and I’m not confident in my ability to write software that will be able to distinguish regular utilization from a runaway event. :’(

Hey Rob, fan of the channel for a long time! I have the flume and loved it. Like you I was one of the early buyers of flume and I dont pay for subscription and its been good to me. I recently moved to home assistant and using node red (thanks to you again!) -- still learning but was wondering if you are planning to make a video for node red using flume + Dome (or any shutoff valve) + zigbee/zwave water sensors. It would be cool if its possible to setup an automation when a leak is detected from one of the sensors, then it checks with Flume if it is really a real leak, then turn it off via shut off valve. Can add if AWAY mode, main water will be shut off right away -- if people are Home -- give a 10-minute grace period before the valve shuts off so they people can check first if it is really a leak. More power to the channel and Thanks!

A home builder I'm working with has the Moen Flo included for their homes. I'm glad its a good product and not a gimmick.

Fantastic video. Thank you.

The water meter thing and the phyn would also only work if you have city water. No meter with a well, and huge pressure swings.

Ahh such a bummer these devices are so heavily cloud integrated it would be so cool if the meters themselves had MQTT or Modbus or some other common standard you can connect a local server up to.

As always, you have the most concise, to-the-point, clear instructional videos. Thanks for all the efforts in making this video. A couple years ago a friend had a massive water leak at his house and that incentivized me to implement a water monitor at my house and at a rental. I ended up buying a Sonoff RF, 433 MHz RF water sensors, and a WiFi solenoid valve. All integrated in Home Assistant for monitoring, notifications, and automated shut-off. I have been extremely happy with my system, it has detected small leaks, and automatically shut-off the valve after notifying me. Obviously, this video was focused on systems that you can buy out of the shelf.

I have had a Moen Flo for the last couple months and I am pretty impressed with it. Twice now I left my hose bibs on and they slightly leak, and on both times I was alerted in the morning the the Flo sensed a leak when it did it's nightly test.

No subscription......Moen flo it is! Thanks for the information. Great video.

Another great review Thanks

Best review in youtube thanks I think I’ll get the flo.

Always check out your videos, question for you on this topic. We returned from a long weekend a few years ago to a totally destroyed home. Over $200,000 insurance claim due to water damage. Our biggest issue here is how hard the water is. all the taps/shut offs etc end up with build up on them. Any idea how they stand up to this? thanks and I'll keep watching!

These are nice so you can keep an eye on the interior pipes and usage. This will not solve a outdoor pipe that T's off for your outdoor drip system though like a valve that's stuck open.

So a 3rd video is in order showing how you can best integrate these and the leak battery leak detectors using HA, HE, or ST. Thanks for the review on these. I think a Moen Flow might be my next smart home purchase.

Why didn’t you test the full in-line Phyn ??

For the Flume 2 the chart of the pros/cons it says $49/month when I think it should say $49/year

Thanks for this!!

Great review! I’m thinking about getting the Flo Logic system. Any thoughts about that one? Thanks!

I was able to get the flume 2 for $25 including extra battery through rebate program by my water company. It didn't say anything about a subscription but I get real time monitoring and all the features you indicated, will have to see if there's actually a subscription. UPDATE: It says on the site that I have lifetime subscription to insight and that this used to be a paid subscription but isn't at this time. I'm also able to get a discount on my home owner's insurance. It doesn't turn off the water for you if there's a leak, however.

I have used Sharkbite fittings and I generally trust them, but on the main water supply? I dunno....

Great review.

Thanks Rob.

This is a very good video! As an engineer, I love to see the very specific measures of each system. Do you have any plans on updating this video to include the Phyn Plus valve? I am interested to see how it compares to the Moen Flo valve.

Thank you for the detailed yet succinct video! I was looking for reviews on the Flume 2 which brought me here. I'm getting one based on it's high usage accuracy as shown in your demonstration. Also, the subscription cost has been removed as of 4/12/22 BUT the device is now $199.

Have you considered making a comparison from smart monitor/shut off system like these to a probe based system like the Water Cop system, they both have there advantages, if from a home owner prospective which would you invest in? Great video, thank you!

Are there any water usage detectors that can be installed on the water supply to an appliance? I would like to monitor the water usage on my washing machine and dishwasher seperatly.

Rob I have had the FLUME 2 for over a year now and it's great- when you said it would not show you a micro leak (toilet running or faucet dripping) you are mistaken- that was the 1st thing it caught when I got mine- I am guessing your device needs to be calibrated. I did have issues at first with incorrect reporting but I worked with support and once we re calibrated it has been flawless. I do agree that the now annual fee (which I do not need to pay for because I was grandfathered in) is unfortunate.

I love your very thorough reviews and learn a ton from them. However you did fail to mention the Phyn Plus model which does have a whole home water shutoff and several great features. I have had one installed in my home for 18 months and love it. I'd be interested to see how it stacks up against the other front runners like the Moen.

Great review as always. *Very* well done. When you complete these reviews do you contact the manufacturers to give them an opportunity to chime in? I'm always curious what someone like Streamlabs would say about a whopping 15% variation, for example, on performing the core single purpose of the tool. Or Phyn on the 70% (!?!?!) deviation.

Hi. I living in Belgium and according to my search, Moen Flo is not available where I leave. I'm searching for a smart water monitoring system, with leak detection and automatic shut off valve. Any idea? (Great video btw. Only disappointed that it's not applicable to me, even if very valuable for teaching me the elements to look at)

I made my own with flow sensors with built in thermistors. Then I use esphome to populate the data into HA.

Thanks for the great information. Are you aware of a manufacturer that makes a unit for a 3 inch water pipe?

Great video! I'm currently going through the process of replacing all the supply lines to my house. Do you think much has changed in the smart water monitor world since making this video?

Great video. Did you ever retest the Moen Flo for a large leak detection after it had learned your house?

This is a great video

Flume just moved a bunch of stuff from behind the paywall to the free tier, it'd be interesting to see a follow-up.

Thank you the awesome video. Are you going to add GROHE SENSE GUARD to your review list? I would like to find out more about the GROHE SENSE GUARD, unfortunately Grohe's website doesn't have much tech spec on their official website

The goal of smart meters is to save money by being able to monitor usage and detect leaks. Subscription kills the first critical point of replacing the 'dumb' meter with the smart one. Naaa thanks but no, thanks. Otherwise Rob, good video as always.

You are doing the Lords work!

How many entities did the Moen Flo pull into HASS? There’s a few things automations I’d like to do when water consumption on specific faucets reach certain amounts of water delivery.

Hi, what can I use to know when a specific shower is being used ?

Phyn plus is another choice that has the same shutoff features as the moen flo. I bought one from Costco on sale for $500 and have been happy with it overall.

Anything similar for measuring heating oil usage? Kerosene/diesel

The problem with the internet based systems is if you are using their API you want samples fairly often to detect leaks. Then if your internet becomes disconnected the system becomes useless for monitoring for emergencies. Nice and helpful review though! Thank you

Great video Rob! I did want to point out something that could help with the ultrasonic meter’s accuracy, namely flow conditioning. This is very commonly done using upstream and downstream pipe diameters with nothing besides straight pipe. With liquids, 10 pipe diameters upstream and 5 pipe diameters of the transducers, which are typically what is considered minimums. That means no process connections, no 90’s, no valves etc. If you don’t have 10 up and 5 down (more is better), the offset is typically very repeatable, so you basically factor in a multiplier to account for the difference. I’m surprised the manufacturer doesn’t allow for a meter factor to be implemented (I.e. if your flow is 7% low, multiply the metered flow rate by 1.07, if it’s high by 3%, multiply by .97 etc. to get accurate flow rates/totals). Maybe this could be done in HA? I sell and work on several different flow meter technologies and manufacturers, with ultrasonic meters being included from several of them, and every USM I’m aware of require flow conditioning, which can be accomplished with several different methods other than straight pipe run, but regardless of the method, they all basically put the flow into a consistent profile throughout the whole cross section being measured. The video you showed explains how transit time works easily enough but doesn’t go into turbulent vs laminar flow, which will definitely effect the measurement and it looks like not only do you have the USM downstream of the paddle meter but also directly downstream of 90’s and connectors, all of which will decrease accuracy. If you were to put the USM on a straight run of 10” (assuming you have 1” pipe) then the meter spool, then 5” downstream, then 90 back into the Moen meter and back into your house, you should get much higher accuracy, assuming the USM can obtain higher accuracy to begin with. Sorry, the measurement side of me felt compelled to speak up! I do love your videos and appreciate what you do for sure!

Moen now requires a subscription as of 2023. From what I found, this includes a $5000 coverage and extends the 1 yr warranty to 5 years. I don't think the functionality changes though, so it is still somewhat a good valve.

Is there a point in all this without moisture detectors tied to automatic shutoff?

Any insights into the Bluebot Universal Smart Home Water Meter?

Smart home products should not have a monthly fee to enable connection to Home Assistant (or other compatible HUB), a fee for value add cloud services - maybe, but it's no guarantee the company will stay in business.

Good video. Thanks. One small bit of feedback... at the beginning of the video, you indicate that the consumption is 27.1 cubic feet. The next line should therefore have a 3 exponent, as in 27.1 ft^3.

Both Lowes & Home Depot locally here show the Moen Flo for $499 but they're "out of stock" & "unavailable" .. probably because Moen raised the price WAY above that. The 3/4" version is now $984 on Amazon. I've already added a WiFi controller to the shutoff ball valve on the main water line in the garage so I can fairly quickly shut if off if I get an alert. I'd like the automatic shutoff but not at that price. I'm going with the Flume 2

can you use moen flow and PHyn together to get the best of both?

Hi Rob, I think there is a home brew option here that is feasible. Pull together a pressure sensor, a motorised valve and and water meter camera recognition (for the numbers) and you're off to the best of all these systems with no cloud involvement. I can see a pressure sensor and motorised valve running from an ESP8266 and the water meter reading from an ESP32 cam running AI to character read the dials/numbers... All fed back to NodeRed and Home Assistant. In true home automation style, this is totally a DIY possible option and loops together a lot of your previous independant training skills.

I wish you tested the regular phyn meter. They have 2 models that both go on the water main instead of smaller modules that go on a single fixture. Also, the biggest complaint about the Flo is that the impeller corrodes and fails extremely fast (within 6mo - 2 years, typically). I had a Flo on my first house, but i moved out of that house only about a year after installation, so i never got to see if it had issues. Now, you can't even buy all the Moen Flo meters anymore. The 1" model has been out of stock for over a year, and the 3/4" and 1.25" have only been in stock intermittently.

Phyn offers a whole home water main solution as well, Phyn Plus. Did you happen to come across this one? I decided to pick this solution because it had what seemed to be the longest-lasting and high accuracy sensor (made in US by Badger, a major supplier for commercial water solutions). It does lack the API access, but no monthly fees (at the time Moen did). I'd be interested how it really stacks up against the others in your tests for accuracy, but I've been happy with it so far. Turns off when I forget the garden watering, kids leave water toys on too long, and has classified my usage very well. I hope they add some API access, but really, having a standalone for what is really an emergency system isn't bad. I'm sure there are some automations I could think of, but does what I need.

I'm quite surprised that your going this route at all ? I've seen your Home Assistant, and your very knowledgeable. So why not smack one out of the park, and go the distance ? Why not use an actual water meter with pulse output, .and electronic shut off ? They are extremely accurate and durable. Run about $75 dollars for the meter, and $25 for the shut off. Then tie it into an esp32 and do the programming yourself. You can custome build it to your exact specifications. What got me interested in monitoring our water usage was leaving the hose on in the back yard and just using the spray nozzle to turn on and off the water. We went away for a long weekend and the hose burst. Fortunately the spraying noise annoyed my neighbor enough that he came over to investigate and he turned off the spigot for us. That's when I started my journey into the world of home Utomation. Using an actual meter is so accurate, that it notified me of drip leak that accured when My toilet flapper started to ware. But I relied on timing circuits and relays to do the dirty work. I just recently started working with HA I have so many cool ideas on home Automation's but lack the knowledge you have. I just started using home Assistant, but I can't seme to make my first node function. But I am determined to watch as many KZfaq videos as It take, to make the damn thing work. So........ you need to Keep making these videos until I get this right ! Maybe you can explain why my node just stairs at me, wanting to be adopted but nothing else.

The Phyn unit does indeed shut water off during an unidentified occurrence however not until 7 or 8 minutes past. A high flow rate of 8 GPM will dump 60 Gallons before activating a shut-off. We discovered this when our seasonal irrigation became active. Imagine if we had an inside pipe break and it took 7 minutes to shut down. What a mess that would be.

Hello, I have watched almost all your videos and have really learned a lot. Thank you very much for that! But apparently I have not learned enough. I would like to use a water flow meter in my motorhome to turn on the water pump when water is taken. The water flow meter gives pulses (444/l) when the water flows. I have created a rule for this that works quite well. Unfortunately the rule is repeated with every impulse, but I only want a MQTT message when the event changes. So only when impulses come or no further impulses come. I just can't manage that. This is my current rule: Rule2 ON COUNTER#C1>%var1% DO Backlog var1 %value%; publish tele/van1/WATERPUMP ON; power6 on ENDON ON COUNTER#C1=%var1% DO Backlog var1 %value%; publish tele/van1/WATERPUMP OFF; power6 off endif ENDON - I also tried something like this: Rule2 ON COUNTER#C1>%var1% DO Backlog var1 %value%; publish tele/van1/WATERPUMP ON; var2 %value%; add1 2; sub2 2 ENDON ON COUNTER#C1

I am looking for wifi control device : timer on the water, also every time the water is running get an alert, water leak detention, and shut off and on manually and automatically, please can you recommend one

Can you review the bulldog?

@The Hook Up so i live in a apartment in a a country where hot and cold water are separately fed to the apartment from a central hot cold system. so my question can one still make use of these types of systems?

Hello, I live in Florida and the main line enters the house through stucco/cement block and then directly into the concrete foundation. There isn't indoor main-line access. Is it OK to install the Moem Flo outdoors, on the main line, and cover it with a watertight box or housing ? Thank you

How does the Flume 2 connect to it's bridge component? If it's wifi, might it be blocked by being underground? (When I tested that by putting my phone next to my meter, it had no connectivity whatsoever.)

Would the Moen Flo work with a deep well?

Hi Vince,Thanks for the video on the water monitors. I am wondering if you have tested the newer Phyn Plus second gen device that also shuts off the water - similar to the Moen Flo? Moen had the troubled impeller so I am wondering if the new Phyn might be a better option. Thanks. Jeff

No Phyn Plus testing??

Hey i am trying to find a simple smart water pressure sensor that can tell me when the water company supply is off. This would let me know when I am operating on my tanks. Any suggestions?

Any updates to include the H2Wise Plus?

Thanks for doing all of this and basically confirming that a DIY solution is beyond worth the effort! I was looking into all of these and was blown away by how terrible and grossly expensive they all are. A bit disgusting IMHO as they are preying on fear of water damage.

What will happen if the AC power goes out does it still work?

Add Fire Alarm Button to disable auto shutting water OFF!!! Also, can you put to the dashboard moey equivalent value with reset button?)

interesting product and clear vedio, could this work with Hubitat ?