Thanks for the great conversation! Great timing of this release as I finally finished the inflation video we talked about 😃.

I love the trend of academics sharing knowledge online. I'm sick of fake-gurus who are as dumb as I am.

Great interview, and thanks for the shout out at the end. I have been a subscriber to Money & Macro for a few months and would strongly recommend the channel.

Dr. Schasfoort is the golden standard of the KZfaqr economists. He is both considerable and well-articulated.

So glad to see Joeri here. Love Money&Macro and The Plain Bagel channels. The combo is so great!

"Before you get too excited....." Hahahahaha, welcome to Dutch directness 👊😂

Goodbye, Economics Explained; hello, Joeri Schasfoort! Thank you for introducing me to this guy's channel. Finally, some uncommon economic sense on KZfaq.

Off topic but I love Joeri's voice I feel like I could listen to him speak on stuff all day lol

25:04 As a Turkish citizen who is experiencing that inflation, in 2013 as a college student you could have lived with 500 600 Turkish liras a month easily(rent excluded). 2018 you could live with 800 900 Turkish liras. 2022 you need 1500 Turkish liras to not live but survive without any social activities. Appreciate US or EU standards of living guys it's really a blessing.

It’s refreshing to hear a conversation between two rational, well-informed, thoughtful people on KZfaq.i wish the good content drove out the bad content

A. Mitchell Innes has written two notable papers about credit money in which he refutes the barter story of the classical economists and points out how money has always been largely credit based. It's very interesting and a must-read for anybody who wants to explore the nature of money. The two papers are "What is money" and "The credit theory of money" and you can find them freely available online. Those have also influenced a lot of post-keynesian economists and maybe most notably the MMT people. For me it seems most useful to think about money as credit. You can use all kinds of commodities as means of exchange and value storage and so on which most people intuitively associate with money. But if you include those in the money term you are basically saying that anything is money to a degree which doesn't get to the core of it. Therefore I like to think of money as debt and only as debt and of everything else just as commodities that may or may not be useful for trading purposes and so on. Commodities are kind of a fallback for when you loose trust in a debt-based monetary system. Debt is created by the interaction of two entities. If the whole economy consisted of only two individuals money would simply be created if somebody writes on a piece of paper that he/she owes me something equal to 10 potatoes. That's it. Money got created. If you add more people you'll notice that you can now pay other people with that piece of paper given they trust the originator pays back his debt when it comes due. Another interesting view the one of Georg Friedrich Knapp known as the "state theory of money" which points out that most of the time money has been a "creature of the law" in that there often has been an authority that established a certain unit of account.

I'm going to invest all my money in bitcoin, and when the price crashes I'll panic sell everything and lose tons of money. Am I doing it right?

You two are the only two finance/economic channels I actually enjoy. Awesome to see two great minds working together!

Dr. Joeri Schasfoort that was one of the best explanations of the contributing factors to inflation I have heard. Thanks man you can consider me +1 to your subs

Dr. Joeri Schasfoort's KZfaq channel is awesome. Macroeconomics seems to be mostly handwaving but he makes it almost sensible.

Great Video guys!! Richard I really enjoy your videos and find them very useful and highly insightful. Could you please do 1 about stock spilts and their significance? Would be very helpful.

Any chance you can get Damodaran on the podcast? :D Great show!

Money & Macro, Unlearning Economics, Patric Boyle, and Plain Bagel are a great start if you are into Bitcoin, but not into cults.

This is probably the best collaboration in the history of KZfaq! Was really hoping something like this was coming out!

love Joeri and how he rips apart terrible econ channels like EE

Ya it's tough to walk that fine line of 'gatekeeping' as he said. You can't just "trust Economists" like you trust a surgeon as if Economists haven't been SPECTACULARLY wrong about economic outcomes before aka through history. Many [Academic] Economists wish [and/or pretend] their subject is like physics or medicine, but it's just too complex to ever 'solve' because it's a 'science' of human behavior. Hence why there are always new theories being created to explain the last recession or crisis that was not predicted by 99% of the "professionals". It reminds me of the military quote: Generals are always prepared to fight the previous war. ;-)

This video is amazing and this guy is brilliant

Cool crossover! Just started watching the both of you quite recently.

yoooo best crossover

Inflation is great if you own assets. Even better if you own (reasonably) leveraged assets.

Thanks for the reasonable, nuanced, grounded discourse on complicated topics. Crypto/inflation discourse is maddening.

Raising interest rates during a supply shortage is NOT like killing the patient to stop a disease, because the patient isn't dead, we are just encouraging people to save and not to spend now, when the shelves are empty. Clearly if demand drops for a few months, there will be time for the ports to get fixed and catch up, and then no more supply problem ! But since the patient ISN'T actually dead, and still has their money saved, when the supply issues are gone, and the shelves are overflowing, they can THEN spend the money on the abundant stuff, and not have inflation, so the higher rates DO solve the shipping problem, by giving the breathing room to fix it, just like some restrictions on people gave time for the hospitals to empty, and vaccines to be made. Sometimes a pause is what is needed to right the ship.

thanks for the video and kudos to both of you, great job! you're very good at what you're doing!

Not only adding sources but it would great if channels recommend other channels in the descriptions. It would help everyone involved and kick the algorithms ass!

Thank you for the interview. I think this is the best podcast that I have watched on your channel. I really hope to see another collaboration between you and Dr. Joeri again.

The collab we all wanted

28:40 More like "They have DeFi'd the odds", am I right?

man i love economics i would lvoe to do a major but there not a lot of jobs to apply it properly i feel like only jobs youll get its on goverment or university and ong. any advice out there what other focus are out there that companies look for? thanks!

Hi, Richard. Thank you for another great discussion. I've been following you for a while and I heard you mentioning getting close to the time limit for the video several times. It sparked my curiosity: why is there a time limit? Apologies if you already answered this before and I missed, and if you could please point me to the answer I would be very grateful. Thank you, and as always, it's a pleasure following you.

fiat means by decree. does that change the dynamic?

HAHA love it. “Your video on inflation is good” “Oohh thanks!” “No no, wait, before you get excited, it’s cause everything else it sh**”

What a fantastic discussion that I sincerely thoroughly enjoyed listing two. Thank you so very much for sharing this.

Fantastic video!

I think there's a pretty significant difference between monetary vs productivity driven deflation. Assuming the money supply remained perfectly proportional to the population, you wouldn't see stable prices - you'd see deflation. That's because people and businesses get more productive over time. This is the "good" kind of deflation. The "bad" kind of deflation is the kind that Dr. Schasfoort seems to be referencing - the monetary kind of deflation (i.e. where debt is destroyed via default). In a highly indebted economy, deflationary episodes like that hurt tremendously. And those episodes have historically led to very strong political reactions. Though it's the only medicine to a debt bubble besides huge currency debasement, I suppose.

Really appreciate people like money and macro!

Excellent.

Deflation is the bomb that banks have strapped to their fiat currencies. If prices ever started going down, the debt-based economy of the world will be plunged into chaos. Soon these discussions will be centred around historical events, not economic theories.

wow my two favorite economists

Bitcoin is in the process of monetizing, and that is why it is excessively volatile on the upside and the downside. In time, it should behave more like gold, still having large swings, but over years not hours. Its volatile now, because its mostly held by speculators, but as it becomes more stable, they will sell, and people who just want to save will become the largest holders, and this will make its price more stable. It could still become usable money then, when the price isn't mooning anymore, and the fear that you would overpay will go away, for the most part, when huge moves are no longer the norm.

No, fiat means “let it be done” in Latin. It is currency not by consent , but by command.

Every time I glance at the comment section of any video that has bitcoin in the title I am just losing braincells. Hey bro I have no basic knowledge of economics, but austrian economics are the future, who is this Hajeck guy btw?? also this proof of work crypto stuff is so cool as a currency, cant wait to pay 1€ for my beer and 500€ in transaction fees.

Can't wait the whole video in 1 sitting, but I'm definitely coming back to watch the rest of it! I love the guest speakers and long video format!

Excellent interview

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Serious question, please somebody explain: 25:20 Theory of Debt deflation. He says that of businesses go out of business - - > there is less demand. How? If business goes bust, it means that supply goes down and thus prices go up and delaftionary spiral is avoided. Is it not?

i think if you can, you should go over all the numbers on buying your first house or first rental. yeah i know your a fin. analyst but these videos do very very well considering who your subs are. I respect your level tone and caution on a lot of this money stuff and I think you would be a unique voice in the youtube world. either way, thanks for uploading

Companies are using supply chains shortages as an excuse to raise prices. Nestle tried raising prices by 20% in my local grocery store chain. Luckily the grocery store refused and removed all Nestle products from the shelves.

Hi Richard, just started watching your videos from its beginnings and because I just started investing through Robinhood I have learned a small amount of knowledge in stocks. Not commenting on your latest video, I saw the video about investing in stocks won't get you rich and I agree with you 100%. I'm a 62 year old that just retired with limited income can I realistically see some money with limited investments. I know I don't give much info but overhead expenses are small and monthly income is little over 900 a month. Question is can I see some profits from let's say 200 a month investing in estate stocks? I'm looking at long-term say 10 years. Thanks in advance!

Money supply can increase and not cause inflation, as long as the demand of that money being printed stays constant. If the monetary base is expanded, money continues to ciriculate with constant speed, and there is no increase in the supply of good & services to match the consumption power the new money will give the people, you're getting inflation.

Crypto stablecoins are pegged to US treasury bonds? So they're really just 21st century version of South Sea Company... Who says hostory does not repeat?

1000 dollars that switch hands 6 times creates the same effect on inflation than 6000 that switch 1ce. Speed at which money is used is as important as quantity.

Great interview, Canada sure did kick the crap out of deflation worries.

Follow both your channels and loved the interview. Regarding deflation, please invite Jeff Booth, author of Price of Tomorrow

Wonderful video, and made me aware of money and macro. Nice to hear an academic view of crypto.

Richard what’s going on with those earbuds? They are quite bent. Also great vid!

You must not live downtown because I can't hear the horns in the background lol. Great content, appreciate you buddy

Great interview

Richard, I hope you consider making these podcast episodes available for Spotify and others in the near future as some of us would love that. I find it easier to digest.

I have a question. Does share price drop to 100 % of it's value?if it's fundamental r strong? If not why? Could you please answer my question

Joeri's point about banks monetizing natural debt/credit relationships between people and the capacity to create money (loans creating deposits) exactly at the necessary spot is excellent. I had never thought about it this way previously despite understanding how deposits are created.

What a great conversation! Would love to subscribe on Google podcast !

Not sure "academics" are the best source. Their track records as a whole haven't been the best.

Plain Bagel and a Groninger in one video. As a Groninger, I cannot ask for any more.

Bitcoin is trust in PoW, not trust in others. Work/energy can't be counterfeited.

Great Interview!

Minute 39.00 All you explain... how does it relate to "Political Systems", such as "socialist" , "capitalist" systems. More recently I read, that the way the "European central bank" is run, is actually very similar to socialist banking systems. .... How would you comment on that? Andreas Marquart, an economist, says that price stability policy is a "trojan horse". Economies do not need it. ....What do you think about it? And ... what about the governance of international finance? What do you know? What should we know? What role does the individual play?

Great video, KZfaq needs more of these honest intelligent discussions. Goed bezig Joeri!

I love this! watching this while eating my breakfast :) Thank you!

Richard Coughing or Richard Coffin? Or maybe Richard Coffing, the Pokémon? Ah, screw that, I am just gonna call you Hans.

Very nice video Richard.

Bitcoin has no intrinsic value same as the dollar has no intrinsic value. That's the perfect take on it. Both do however have an extrinsic value and that is where the "zero value" argument falls apart.

Good stuff but I would expect you going much deeper since the video is 49 minutes long.

34:18 I say this with all the love in the world: THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HOPING YOU WOULD ADDRESS AT SOME POINT!! Please do explore that! As you said, people intuitively know the game is rigged towards financialization, hence the exponential adoption of Bitcoin and the increasing focus of 'average people' on out of control asset price inflation. I would love to see Joeri and/or TPB have a discussion with any of Robert Breedlove, Raoul Pal, Lyn Alden, Brent Johnson, Preston Pysh etc. You could just hash out the differences and overlap between the Bitcoin paradigm and the Mainstream.

Great to see more podcasts!

26:12 talking about debt and deflation, arent banks reserving the right to readjust your debt in case of inflation? "you want a loan or not?"

Can we nominate this guy for the FED chairman? Such cogency, rationality, and no BS. Has anyone tried to average/synthesize the four theories for inflation 21:30 as a metric for overall CPI?

You should do a video with Justin Oh from Cents Invest

You should have on Evidence based Wealth (Aka, BelangP). He has some of the best arguments for gold as a store of wealth without discounting other asset classes like most goldbugs.

Pog money & Macro

Awesome stuff. Everybody mentioned got a new subscriber.

Oh, this channel is Candian, didn't notice.... *hears 'about'* ..ah, there it is, yes Canadian.

im glad i found your channel. keep it up man!

Amazing!!

Great interview - good to hear more in- depth discussion of a fairly dry topic which was interesting and providing details not shown on other finance Channels - g00d stuff fellas!

Why are people liking this video? 20 minutes in and nothing has been said. Nothing that couldn't have been said in 20 seconds or wasn't already obvious. What a waste of time.

Love this. Thanks Richard and Joeri!

Debt is a natural way of society, agree. However, debt money is said to have the ability to target people who use them the best. That is not an ability of Debt money. That is ability of profesional lending. If profesionals calculate risk and want to make profit, they surgically allocate money to the right people and it doesn't matter if money came from Debt creation or from savings that were lended to somebody.

I loved this! Keep it up Richard! I am going to be that bitcoiner that Richard said he could sense the anger from-this is not anger though haha. Dr. Schasfoort makes an interesting comparison between 'gold bugs' and 'bitcoin bugs', and how they both believe that commodity money has, at its core, intrinsic value. However, I'd argue that only 'gold bugs' follow that logic. The Austrian school argues in favour of things not having intrinsic value; in this case, bitcoin, much like gold-and anything else at that-has no value outside of a our consciousness. If we all accept paper as our medium of exchange, it is used as that; anything can be used as money if a lot of us trust it enough to be money. However, here lies the maker or breaker of money: trust. Over the test of time, the harder money earns that trust, while the easy money loses it. P.S: I don't want to make a 'know-it-all' kind of comment, so, if either of you guys reads this, I am 100% open to your thoughts and feedback; I am not a fan of closed-ended statements and I enjoyed this video a lot! Treat me as a student since I am learning from you guys :)

This is the guy who dismantled Economics Explained, right? Seems like a cool dude.

Perhaps we need a currency based on "Energy" a truly finite measure.

Thanks a lot. Let´s go to the next "topic" and "struggle" on that. "GROWTH", "ZERO GROWTH", next "CLIMATE FRIENDLY ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT", "GREEN ECONOMY". That is, when it gets interesting. I remember, that in corona times we were able to see that animals appeared on the roads, where cars were driving. Let us not be "stuck" in "terminology" (even though practic examples are given" ......

At 11:00 it was a bit cringe that economist didn't find causation of money supply and CPI decoupling, while it's obvious that technology is responsible! Some industries got more advanced and automated than others!

Great interview!

How does gold have a fixed supply? Weird to say that is the same thing as Bitcoin

How about the effect on inflation of factors like price competition, labor impoverishing trade agreements, monopoly or greedy surplus creation...