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I'm so tired of drowning in the undertow, with my back against the wall, because the voices in my head are watching the world burn

15:17 "They write the same lyrics about being caught in the undertow or whatever" I bursted out laughing 😂

Early Killswitch, Parkway and Everytime I Die was a fun time to be alive

"It's lost all it's connection to the hardcore scene" - is the nail on the head. Metalcore used to have an unhinged quality to the music, which is completely lost in modern metalcore.

Another thing that really hurts modern metalcore, in my opinion, is the current way that metal is mixed/mastered. Using the same guitar tones, same plastic drum sound, lack of low end, and especially everything being quantized and edited completely sucks the life out of these bands. 2000s metalcore wasn't particularly raw, but it at least had some breathing room and character. Even if a band has a unique sound now, the sterile production usually just hides it anyway

When he said “metalcore now feels like music by guitarists for guitarists” I felt that 😅

Modern metalcore is to classic metalcore what hair metal was to thrash. Classic metalcore were a bunch of metal dudes who would sing sometimes. Now it's a bunch of instagram models who can scream sometimes.

Every Punk Rock MBA video: Finn: **Goes over the history, gives a few opinions, makes us laugh and makes it clear that gatekeeping is lame** Comment section: *ultimate gatekeeping*

Adam D, and Joey Sturgis are truly the 2000's 2010's metalcore heroes

Hardcore/Metal fan takes: 2000: Nu-Metal sucks 2010: Deathcore sucks 2020: Metalcore sucks

Man. You nailed the description of what’s wrong with modern metalcore. For years I’m like wtf is wrong with this and why can’t I listen to it no matter how hard I try?

Finn saying what I've been thinking for the last 10 years. When he's right, he's right.

The revival of As I Lay Dying and All That Remains is F'n sick, just gotta make that clear rn. 🤘

I don't know anything about today's bands, but I will always love Killswitch & As I Lay Dying.

Idc what anyone says, meshuggah was doing metalcore breakdowns in the early 90's 👀

Modern Metalcore starter pack: •Only Black tshirts no logos •1 or 2 members with beards •warehouse music videos •BMTH is their God

Everytime I go to a punk/hardcore/metalcore festival and watch a metalcore band I vaguely heard of I always think 'every song sounds the same from every band I saw today"

bro i love metalcore im a certified metalcore enjoyer if metalcore has 100 fans im one of them if metalcore has 1 fan its me if metalcore has 0 fans im dead

I would argue that there are types of breakdowns. Maybe they did come form hardcore, but Slayer's "Raining Blood," Pantera's "Domination," and Sepultura's "Dead Embryonic Cells" has breakdowns as well. Due to them all coming from thrash, it may still technically be true that breakdowns are a punk/hardcore element these songs featured.

Knocked Loose, Code Orange, Jesus Peace, Vein. This is a very good example that hardcore and metalcore maintain a powerful connection. And they are very popular now.

"Massugah with Linkin Park choruses." I've never heard it put any better. Modern Metalcore bores me to tears

To be completely honest, I am almost 35 and I still love metalcore to this day. This combined with numetal was what brought me into metal in the first place and even though if I’m not into numetal anymore, I regularly enjoy metalcore quite often, and I don’t get the fuss about thehating

Careerism turns everything into a product and to sell a product you make it as safe as possible. I'm not particularly interested in safe music, but to each their own.

If you listen to Invent, Animate's new stuff and think there's not much emotion in it, then you have no ears.

Finn, why don’t people talk about Rise Against? I love them and think they have a very very solid 4 album run. Would love if you did a dedicated vid on them

New bands to listen to if you miss classic metalcore: - Sanction - Vatican - Balmora - Dying Wish - Foreign hands - Cross of Dissbelief - See No Evil There's a pretty big revival around this stuff happening with zoomers. There's even a band in my town called XAblazeX that sound just like Walls of Jerico.

Haha I spit out my coffee when he said “caught in the undertow “🤣🤣🤣

Yesssss!! I agree 100%! The last few years of "metalcore" should be renamed to nu-metalcore. So many of these newer bands do not even have blast beats or 2step rhythms. It's all a heavier style of Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, Breaking Benjamin, Disturbed, Korn, etc.

Good to see Chimaira in this. Great band that flew under the radar compared to their peers.

As i lay dying: an ocean between us. Is and always will be peak metalcore to me, albumn came out when i was 10 and it was the first thing that got me into metal

That's what I love about Hanabie so much, they have that hardcore element and it has a very strong presence in their music, ESPECIALLY live.

We need more drop C and drop D 6 string guitar bands to keep it alive, Ill even allow drop B.

Love that you brought brand archetypes in this. Really makes the channel live up to it's name

If the original metalcore was the combination of metal and hardcore, then the current metalcore is the mixture of metalcore and nu metal

Imagine my shock when my fucking band is shown in the “modern metalcore” section of this video. I’m not sure whether to be flattered or upset for a couple of reasons. My band is called Grieve, and the clip in front of the light wall at 11:40 and 12:35 is from our video “Empty Like Me.” I appreciate that you found us, I don’t appreciate that in the midst of talking about how bands have no connection to the hardcore scene you pull a clip of a music video filmed and edited by our guitarist, who also mixed and mastered all the music that we’ve put out in the last 3 years, which we self published with no label support, paid for with money we made from selling merch we designed ourselves. DIY is the heart of what we do, our message about mental health is clear, and “I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that” is no excuse for using our image to push a message about what’s wrong with metalcore without so much as a credit for the clip you ripped from KZfaq in the description. If you wanna go after bands as examples of what’s wrong with metalcore, either do some extra digging before making an example of a band with less than 10k views on the video you’re using, or pick a band who’s actually guilty of losing what you claim the genre has lost. I’ve been watching your videos for a long time and seeing you punch down like this without so much as a courtesy of mentioning to us that you used our video is massively disappointing, especially considering you’re stacking us against pillars of the hardcore community like Black Flag and Minor Threat. I don’t really care whether you find our music appealing, or if you connect with our message, or if you think I’m full of shit, but if you’re going to gatekeep, don’t front about how you’re not gatekeeping so people don’t complain when you’re pulling your clips from small local artists who put their blood, sweat, and tears into creating something. You don’t fuckin know us.

Fellow old heads! Listen to **Boundaries**! These young men are playing some metalcore that harkens back to the music we grew up with. The folks in Dying Wish are also playing that old school style of metalcore and deserve your attention. I wanted to find new bands to explore instead of just listening to as I lay dying, kSe, IKTPQ, or old parkway and so far these two are the best

I don't agree. There are lots of great up-and-coming " revival core ' bands. Boundaries. Wristmeetrazor, Serration, Foreign Hands, Mouth For War, A Dozen Black Roses , Seeyouspacecowboy etc.

16:55 I'm definitely gonna be that guy and point out that's 43% Burnt, not Destro's Secret.

I'm blown away by the total omission of Darkest Hour as pioneers of the genre.

Did not mention POISON THE WELL once! WTF?

Man that Chimaira Pure Hatred clip was a blast from the past. I remember seeing them live in '09ish with Lacuna Coil, Killswitch Engage, and Disturbed. Great show.

Some metalcore sways towards emo/screamo, other bands are more metal & polished like ‘as I lay dying’. I tend to enjoy the hardcore aspect. The dirty, messy & heavy sides of the genre. Things you would hear from one of the heavier underoath or Norma Jean songs. The guitars aren’t as polished but it has the metal spirit, leaning toward the heavy raw tones of hardcore.

To sum it all up, metalcore become pop

I think you made a good point a while back that when nerds get into things, they ruin them. Metalcore is filled with nerds and dorks making the music and it’s overly clinical and formulaic Edit: I disagree that this is what the fans want. I think that’s why Knocked Loose has gained a lot of traction lately, because they bring the hardcore influence back into it. Or maybe Drain with their thrashy hardcore riffs (speaking of, a video on crossover thrash would be cool)

Critic: Metalcore isn't 100% perfect on anything metal core touches. R/metalcore: emotional keyboard warrior rage

I so fully agree with this. The only connection to "core" in the genre now is breakdowns. Everything else is kind of Extreme Metal Lite™ with melodic, clean sung choruses. And most of the time, those choruses are just wedged in because that's the blueprint for metalcore songs, not because they actually fit the song. I know there are exceptions and current metalcore bands still creating great music, but overall it's been overcome with mediocrity and paint-by-numbers songwriting

I met Matt from Hatebreed when he was playing in a bar in New York.(Mid state near CT, Matt was their guitarist back in the 90's) And he was such a chill guy. We sat and bullshit(ed) for 2 hours after his set. Such a nice guy..

It seems to me that the metalcore scene from the 2010s onwards has very little to do with the original incarnation of the genre and it's only called by the same name on a technicality. Maybe if people didn't think of it as "metallic hardcore" and instead something completely new, it wouldn't be as frustrating for hard-core fans

Metalcore has become a simulacra. A copy of a copy of a copy.

New old school metalcore bands that are actually hardcore: Adrienne, Since My Beloved, Balmora, Withpaperwings, A Mourning Star, Killing Me Softly, Azshara, Deadset, Unbrokenapologies, Razel Get Her Wings, Your Spirit Dies, Foreign Hands, A Dozen Black Roses, Simulakra, Cauldron, xclocktowerx, xServitudex, xelegyx, serration, Dying Wish, Wristmeetrazor, Seeyouspacecowboy(older stuff), memento, buriedbutstillbreathing, Serenity, Long.Way.Down.,

it's gotten to the point where your "metalcore problems" videos are actually more entertaining than metalcore itself. 🙃

Fin you'll never change my mind that Zao was one of the first metalcore bands Where Blood and Fire Bring Rest came out in 98

Give me Trustkill and Ferret all day long.

Listen to Dying Wish, Boundries, Foreign Hands, wristmeetsrazor, and Great American Ghost. Old school metalcore is still going strong, you just have to dig

16:53 .. that's not Destro's Secret... that's 43% Burnt

'Metalcore lost the core part and became a sub-genre of metal', this line of yours sums up the entire video. Nearly 20 minutes saved.

Periphery accidentally ruined metalcore.

Dying Wish is one of the most recent metalcore bands that give you the 2010's metalcore vibes and feels. Theyre great.

Fuck that, gatekeep. Sometimes people forget that once tours over, it’s back to the stockroom at target, or answering phones at pizza hut

I see you got a lot of great bands like The Ephemeral, Saving Vice, Patient Sixty-Seven, and the boys on our label, We Were Giants! A lot of great bands in the current Metalcore scene in my opinion 🤘 Also funny enough the photo you used of Metalcore bands was the photo banner I made for an article for upcoming Metalcore bands in 2023

I transitioned from Metalcore to a Deathcore enjoyer.ƪ(˘⌣˘)ʃ

This could also be applied to the music industry overall its very sanitized and boring

Definitely one of the best videos you’ve made in a while. Felt more authentic, like your older content. Appreciated the insights based on your personal experiences and the marketing analysis.

Is it fair to say metalcore went from "metallic hardcore" to "hardcore metal"? Some say it's a continuum of crossover thrash, which crossover thrash is treated as metal by the metal scene.

As a new englander I’ve always been a fan of the fact that we have our own genre of heavy music that though we didn’t entirely create is very heavily associated with us

I got into metalcore or NWOAHM in college when Killswitch Engage, Lamb of God, God forbid, Shadows Fall... etc were just coming out. I remember really being into the whole Trustkill, Victory Records roster too. I was getting into Hardcore and Metalcore at the same time and it was this cool new thing to me because I was a nu metal kid in highschool so the sounds were more extreme and it felt less gimmicky. Like a lot of other people, KsE will always be the GOAT band for me. I got into them when Jesse was the singer, but Howard is my personal favorite vocalist for that band. I don't really know who's who nowadays in metalcore, but I still will jam the classics.

So the connection is that social media and everyone thinking they can be a celebrity as a result, is the reason everything declined hahaha

Metalcore metaphorically was just an energetic spastic kid who grew up. Started out as a wild child who was bouncing off the walls, then started to get more complex emotions and had a weird emo phase, but now is more rounded off in the corners. Has a kid, a wife and a mortgage. Still reminisces his youth but wants something easier to consume as an adult

Killswitch is always gonna be the best for me. This makes me think how sick it is whenever Jesse and Howard appear on tracks together. Jesse bringing the hardcore sound and Howard bringing the operatic Dio sound. And of course Adam D the genius with the antics. The perfect blend that gives me so much emotional response in their sound and I don’t get bored of it like a lot of these newer bands sounding the same

metalcore is just BUTTROCK-influenced now and feels on the edge of radio rather then on the edge of sociality

Wage War , Fit for a king , The Devil Wears Prada and Of Mice and Men are only considered with going mainstream that they would probably switch to the style of Five Finger Death Punch or Something even more poppy if given the chance. I miss the Killswitch era of metalcore so much.

That entire first Vision of Disorder album is a masterpiece, I listened the hell out of that back in the day and highly recommend it, that first song Element is a banger! 🔥

Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't say any of the new metalcore bands make me go "I need to listen to these guys" not in a bad way, they just don't make me feel anything. Bad Omens is probably an exception and even then I still haven't listened to their new stuff yet. Contrast that with new bands I love who are doing either whatever they want (Darko US) or majorly influenced by nu metal (Dropout Kings, Hacktivist)

It's like everything where evolution occurs, the longer it goes on the more it evolves away from its roots and becomes more watered down. As metalcore has been around so long, the bands aren't influenced by the same music as in earlier days.

Alot of the younger bands are bring back the metalcore sound and message from the early years of metalcore. Balmora, roseblood etc the younger scene is bring that sound back and it's amazing

Even the so called metalcore bands now dont have a specific cothing style. I remember metalcore bands typical style like tight jeans, cool hairstyle, vans, denim jacket and tanktop which i think from 1980s hardcore and punk. Bands have been like random pop stars from 2020. They are undistinguishable from artists from other genres.

I am one of these kids, metalcore even to this day is my metal…

I've always been more of a thrasher / traditional metal guy, but some of my favorite albums of all time are metalcore albums. Waking the Fallen, the Fall of Ideals etc. In the 80s, Thrash bands combined Agent Orange and Sex Pistols with Accept, Venom, and Judas Priest ...and it was sick. In the 00s, Metalcore bands combined all the Hardcore bands you mentioned and Melodeath and Groove Metal ...and it was sick.

its crazy... its almost like music marketing traffics unsustainable amounts of attention into trend cycles, while forcing bands into narrower and narrower genre conventions it created trying to replicate the economic success of other acts. Frankly metalcore is doing great... foriegn hands just dropped a bop

I'm still waiting when somebody will invent gothcore😁😁😁😁

Wellll... Metalcore went Nashville

Heres' the thing. If we have this over saturation of similar message/similar riffage etc, we have to ask, is the market over saturated or are there really that many peeps out there that are feeling this? Are there that many fans that are wanting and therefore buying this? Once a real over saturation happens the market will self correct as people become jaded to the same, and true artists will simply play what feels right because they weren't trying to fit a genre in the first place, they were trying to hit a feeling.

Okay I get some of your points but no way you said there’s no emotion anymore and then played a clip of Without a Whisper???

Thank you Finn for talking about Warped Tour and "No Rockstar Mentality" I really missed this era and the fun crabcore scene kids, you can really tell this was the last efforts of mono-culture and sense of community 🎶

On the west coast it never had any singing in it. Metal core was metal with hardcore not hardcord and singing. We called that crapcore or post hardcore and that was after MTV got a hold of it

Metalcore isn’t a monolithic genre. Like every other music genre it has sub-genres. Melodic metalcore is as different from progressive metalcore as melo death is different from progressive death. It’s an important thing to differentiate the sub-genres. That OG style is still alive and well.

I am personally a classic metalcore enjoyer and one thing that I love in metalcore is uniqueness, aggression and also dissonance and tasteful complexity (in spite of being more of a mathcore thing) and I'm really picky in sounds which is the reason I don't find anything interesting in modern metalcore when drums and guitars sound MOSTLY the same and loudness war is a whole other conversation. Those classic metalcore albums from 2000s-ish like Jane Doe by Converge, Bless the Martyr by Norma Jean, Opposite of December by Poison The Well etc for example have their own unique drum sounds or distinguishable screaming voices or riffing styles that my ears like and lyrics didn't seem quite cliché-y like today. Some of those newer "clichecore" or octanecore bands especially make me cringe a bit for a reason

No way Finn actually said "Stafe & Sale" at the one minute mark and left it in

We should stop calling modern “metalcore” bands metalcore. They are clearly something different. Metalcore died in the 2000s.

The genre had lost a step in last 5years??? Nah, we have more diversity and talent in Metalcore than ever

You forgot to mention Falling In Reverse , Sleep Token , Loathe , Spiritbox , Sleep Theory ect . All these bands are all doing something different and outside the box of metalcore

Last "Foreign Hands" album (a band from Delaware) sounds like PTW of our era if not better, guys working hard since 2015. Almost every event they do tributes to PTW Depends on what you want to find I guess, there always be who likes the old traditions, just do not put your youtube filters on rating🤷

Stafe, Sale and bland?🤔.

Finn, I don't know if you'll ever see this but... I LOVE these types of videos. You help me, a teenager from Serbia, understand alternative culture in America and to love these bands even more. I've been watching your videos since 2020. Keep going. ❤

Do you not consider the new, more hardcore influenced stuff Metalcore? Like Dying Wish, Boundaries, Kublai Khan, Foreign Hands, SYSC, and Knocked Loose? That stuff sounds super fresh to me. Definitely agree with you re: the Djent strain of Metalcore.

I love all core music..it all has a place in the music scene

Idk man False Meridian and Immolation of Night by Invent are pretty emotional

Idk why it looks like Kaonashi is getting shade when they litterally have hardcore influences and have played this is hardcore fest twice. Also what about bands like: Mouth for war, Chamber, Boundaries and bands of this vein (like Vein FM) having hardcore influences throughout their music?

I feel like this genre became a thing and evolved at the same time as my love for hardcore and metal. I'm 39. When I was 17/18 I started getting into metal and hardcore. There was nothing I wouldn't explore. I branched out from NuMetal and discovered hardcore, melodic death, thrash all of a sudden, it was like a sensory overload. Then KSE appeared. It was like the perfect blend of everything I loved. Having started with Earth Crisis, Stampin Ground and Madball, I fell in love with Hatebreed who dropped Perseverance only a few months after I discovered the band. At the same time I'd fallen in love with At The Gates, Soilwork, Bodom and In Flames (and Dimmu Borgir) whilst all the while listening to bands like Merauder. I was checking out Machine Head and Pantera and at the and time everything was suddenly evolving. And then BOOM, the NWOAHM & NWOBHM started, then metalcore was born and KSE released AOJB. For me it was the perfect blend of everything I loved. It had the heaviness of metal, the aggression and groove of hardcore and the melodies of MDM and melodic thrash. To me it was and is perfect. But now...this newer idea of metalcore to me is totally disconnected. Where are all the band that sound like Bullet, like KSE and God Forbid, like AILD? This new metalcore movement isn't hardcore x metal. It's 2000s era post-hardcore / screaming turned ultra heavy. It's not the same thing but it's still called metalcore. And everyone sounds the same. Bands do intentionally sound just like every other band. It's very sad. Sometimes you can hear the talent but I shake my head during songs thinking this would be such a good moment for a melodic riff...like where the hell have guitar leads and dual harmonies gone? Where are the breakdowns that make you want to jump around going mad which are actually catchy? Breakdowns in modern metalcore almost seem borrowed from deathcore rather than hardcore and that in itself is so far removed from hardcore breakdowns already. I am yearning for bands who loved hardcore and MDM to make metalcore. I'm tired of every band sounding like a slightly heavier The Devil Wears Prada with a girly chorus. I miss bands like The Sorrow. Nato. Early All That Remains and Unearth. Roadrunner Records had the metalcore scene covered for so long but then moved away from it. The 'Andy Sneap' sound with Arch Enemy/ATG x Hatebreed bands. Modern metalcore bands sound safe, conformist and devoid of songwriting and melodic ability. Bring back lead guitars, dual harmonies, gallops, chugs and catchy midpaced breakdowns!