Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say.

Asmon saying he’s not bad at videogames and banning everyone saying otherwise is golden

You should all hold judgement until the official Quantum review is out.

People are so into this, it’s unbelievable !! There is no problem in not liking a game that somebody else likes, same thing turned around.

People just need to have confidence in their own taste. They need to stop letting themselves be shaken because someone doesn't like something they do. So much bullshit would be avoided if people really followed their own advice and liked what they liked.

The objective truth is that LOTF is mid.

Just because you like it, doesn't make it good. Just because you hate it, doesn't make it shit.

2020's in a nutshell. "My opinion is objective, your opinion is subjective"

People really don't know what the role of a reviewer is anymore. You find a reviewer that made a video about a game you liked and you ended up enjoying the video,then he puts out another video of a different game you like, eventually you find out your likings align and you trust that the reviewer will end up opening you up to trying other games. SkillUp is that reviewer for me,i align with his review more than 75%, if he likes a game i will probably also like it.

Honestly LOTF was initially painful when I first tried it as enemy placement and pacing with ganks and annoying ranged attacks combined was infuriating. However the devs have constantly been rebalancing and making changes based on feedback. I say that as someone who uninstalled the game in disgust and said I wasn't going to continue with this trash... but I felt I wanted to give it one more try and it has grown on me. I think it has a lot of potential

As someone who is into philosophy I am alarmed when someone says something is "Objectively good" or "Objectively bad". It is paradoxical, because statements that have the attributes "True" or "False" (usually called theoretical statements in philosophical terms) are not good or bad. A statement such as "There are 5 pentagons in that sword-hilt" cannot be good or bad, it is simply true or false depending on wether or not it corresponds with reality. On the other hand a statement such as "That animation looks good" is not a theoretical statement because it does not have the characteristic of being true or false. It is an opinion rather, in philosophical terms refered to as an "atheoretical statement". To suggest such a statement is either true or false would mean to suggest that anyone of a different opinion is somehow wrong in the same way as someone who points at the sun and shouts "that is the moon" would be in the wrong to do so. In conclusion I think it is important to be percise when using terminology that have well defined and percise meanings, because not doing so will result in miscommunication and misunderstandings unneccessarily.

I think the game is fun, there's some jank and annoyance to it but it's got a solid foundation to build from. I think the devs can improve their formula going forward, which honestly is more than what I can say for Starfield.

saying "He didn't advertise HIS review of the game as HIS opinion" has the sound of " they didn't say to take the plastic wrap of the pizza before cooking it"

Imagine how comfortable of a life we live where things we get upset about are other peoples opinions on video games.

I prefer Asmon when his ego isn't running rampant. Gaming is about fun and entertainment, so should Asmon's videos. Keep it fun instead of ranting to us as if you are giving a lecture on nuclear physics.

I just think people need to realise Asmongold Or Ratatoskr saying a game is bad doesn't mean it is bad, they just didn't like it. I like both Asmon and Ratatoskr, but they aren't all knowing gods and what they say is 100% factual, they just gave their opinion. I've seen so many people say "x game is bad Asmon said its bad!11". I swear people are brainwashed by who they follow. I love Lords of the Fallen and Wo Long, really enjoyed both.

Confimation bias is very real on this kind of discussion. People just want hear what their belief from other people. Its not because of seeking opinion of other, they just want to confirm their bias. Thats why in most case people didn't have a problem when reviewer make a positive review on a generally good game, but became a rabid dog the moments other people's opinion didn't line with their own.

My problem with his review is that he came out of the gate straight shitting on the game while showing in his gameplay that he in fact did not know how to play the game very well 😂

I actually really enjoyed the game. My first playthrough had some jank but after the recent updates the devs fixed A LOT of the negatives. I hope we get DLC and I hope the game sells well enough that they take the lessons they learned with this game and make an amazing 3rd LotF or new IP.

Here is what it comes down to. Videogames are entertainment and art. Someone might come to a piece of art and say, "Oh wow, look at the intentionality of the brush strokes; look at the way the artist captured the emotion." and another person might say, "I hate the way this looks, It's too loose, it's not technical enough." Are both views invalidated by the fact that someone else has a different FEELING on the piece of art? No. If you are not entertained or moved by the art, that is a personal feeling, it has nothing to do with the objective reality of whether it is good art or not. The other thing is that over time, opinions can change and popular opinions can swing. Some artists in their time were not popular and their art was considered terrible (Vincent Van Gogh anyone?). You can also point out objective truths that don't make something good or bad when it comes to art-- "This piece of art is very solid and technically balanced; This piece of art is very loose and the colors are muted". Both statements are objectively true, but what matters is what is being conveyed and whether or not the person viewing the art likes or dislikes it on their own opinion and feelings. At the end of the day, I don't even think you can say that someone is eating "Shit" because they may have something that they really appreciate by way of the art and entertainment they experienced. Yes, to you it may be shit, so your interpretation is that they are eating shit... But I think that's the reason people get so heated about it. They are seeing something that has invoked feelings in them (because it is art and entertainment and that is what it is supposed to do), and to those who like it, it feels like their character is being put into question based on their likes. This can really be applied to any popular or unpopular opinion. ART can be technical, and if the art is trying to accomplish a technical feat that it didn't achieve, then yes, it is bad by the standard it setup for itself... But that doesn't mean that people still can't have feelings about the art that they enjoy. THIS IS MY OPINION.

This is one of those games that i love in concept and art style and things. But their are some large glaring problems sadly that bring it down quite a bit. But man i still had a good time though. I hope the team gets another chance not all just get canned.

I had a blast with Lords of the Fallen, but I also liked Wo Long... I guess I just like whatever game makes me have fun. But then again, I'm not saying the criticism is wrong, I saw a lot of people having problems with the game, I just didn't have any really great ones with it I guess. But remember, just play whatever you like and have fun with it! That's the main reason to play video games after all!

Hot take, Last of Us overall as a game is not a good game.

"If you want to eat shit, eat the shit but do not tell me that it is chocolate" ~ Asmongold

Asmon i need your help my voice is too small for this! Visionary Realms, makers of Pantheon just got caught abusing their mod power on reddit and trying to cover it. They got a video removed on MMORPG sub as well, then deleted their response trying to cover their tracks. Please thumb this up, i want Asmon to see it. i NEED his help exposing it. It can be found under my name. I have to be careful with youtube censors, this comment was already removed once lol.

Could you imagine biting into a burger finding out the burger is undercooked, and the mayo is spoiled and the bun has mold on it and the chef says you can’t say this burger is bad until you finish it

Some things can be objectivly measured, like the technical state of a game (bugs/performance), but a lot is what people like. If you like storys, you will most likely rate a game with a good story higher, than a game without any story at all, if you like competitive, you will more likely rate a game higher that focuses on pvp elements, than a story based single player game. And even, if we just go with story, people prefer different kinds of storys and also how much you need to think yourself in the story. Some want complicated storys where details matter a lot, others want a simple easy to understand story. Or that everything is explained vs some things stay a mystery.

Truly t best coping mechanism "your opinion lol"

I've been noticing the balance is better for co-op. I think the "only host items" was poor design. However gameplay and random occurances are fun in co-op.

I feel like if you criticize a game that you like that shows that you truly care about the game

I feel like.. duh? There is no such thing as an objective review. There really isn't much objective anything where humans are involved. Everyone likes their own things. Everyone dislikes their own thing. It's like language is important. "I don't like Elden Ring" is a different statement than "Elden Ring is bad" The only reason someone thinks something is bad is because is because they dont like it

I absolutely love this game 100+ hours and still making new characters

The problem is that Gen Z genuinely believes that their opinion is Objective. They literally do not know better.

If an objective review was a thing, we'd only need one reviewer, ever. These gamers are looking for affirmations of their biases.

Objective review: Lords of the Fallen is really bad

I was extremely hyped for LoTF, easily have over 950+ hrs in all the souls games since Demon’s Souls (and popular souls-likes), (390 hours in Elden Ring) and I still have not finished LoTF. Too many questionable design elements. Is it bad? I wouldn’t call it bad. I would say it delivers wonderfully on the dark and grim setting and atmosphere, has cool ideas, but fails to polish these systems entirely and left in a lot of jank for release. It’s better than a lot of soulslikes but comparing this to a Fromsoft title or now the more recent Lies of P is a hard sell. It needed more q/a and design refinement.

Problem is not really ratatoskr not liking the game players like. It’s the he constantly shits on a lot of the games that are actually good. He has a superiority complex.

It's a bad game, like redfall, like starfield, like gollum, like rise of kong, if you can't wrap your mind around the fact that bad games are poorly reviewed then that's on you Why is it that soulsfanboys always get ultra butthurt when people call their beloved soulslop garbage? mindblowing.

"If you want to eat shit, eat the shit, but do not try to tell me it is chocolate." Ironic from the 2 dollar steak eater lol

The reason why there is a reaction to discount an opinion is because a lot of us are raised in such a way to where our opinions resulted in a negative outcome. So when we see an opinion we don't agree with, we respond in the same way we were responded with. It takes discipline to become aware of that and who's got the time for that, right?

With the linear vs non-linear games, it all depends on what there is to do. Evil West was one of my favorite games over the last few years and that was literally just hallway, open combat area, hallway, open combat area. And I prefer that over an "open world" which is really just a fluffed up hallway with nothing to do, but the next fun part is 20 mins away instead of 20 seconds away.

"Subectivity is implied" except when they explicitly tell they are being objective, despite giving subjective opinions, like that one commenter in the video. "My opinions are facts", LOL

You don’t have to wait until Victor to respec it can be done after you beat the eldest of the black rabbit brotherhood and find the gold coin tree. You can respec levels, p organ, and Legion arm.

I had a great time playing this game and his issues didn’t bother me so I had a positive experience, but I’m not mad he didn’t like it because it means nothing to my experience.

The lock on system is one of the worst in any souls game especially when you’re fighting a boss and it locks on to an enemy a fucking mile away lol. Or you’re fighting on a rampart and you move forward every hit and fall off to your death!!!!!

Beating a game doesn't mean you are good at it.

There are objective reviews. They are boring. Objectivity is boring.

i love it, i didnt like it all for about the 1st 3 hours, but it changed my mind the more i played. Bravo to the the devs and how they are constantly patching and improving the game, listening to feedback.

Well, in my eyes the review of someone, who haven't finished the game cetainly worth less, than that of someone who did. But not much less. If a games first 15 hour is bad, then probably the other 15 hour will be bad, and vica versa with very few exceptions. So making a review on the first 15 hours may not cover every part of the game, but certainly not something that can be ignored. And to add to the objective subjective part. Most of the objective part is something, that you have a subjective opinion on. Bcs for a lot of players, it doesn't really matter how much poligons are there, or if the game has some lag spikes when trying to load huge areas for example. How severe the bugs are. For example in skyrim bugs are one of the funniest things, and positively influence the (my) gaming experience.

3 hours is a good place to stop to give ur first impressions

Agreed with Asmon here, if your playing a 100 hour game for 30 minutes to an hour and making a judgement on it then your an idiot, but if you play it for 20-30 hours then you might miss out on 1-2 end game features but you've generally got a very good understanding of what the game has to offer by that point to speak confidently on it

I work a 9-5, and they're telling me I have to spend around 10-15 more hours to get to the good part of a game? Fuck that

I'm glad people are speaking more often of that. Internet became a very toxic environment where any post turns into a discussion as if something is directly being said for them and people need to state their personal view of stuff to be the judge of right and wrong

So Asmongold is the person to decide whether it is shit or not? Stop saying it is shit, it might be shit from your point of view, I get that; but for me it is not shit. Game has problems; but I'm not eating shit, you are saying im eating shit :) I give 0 care, if you finish it or not; but your review is your review. So stop calling it shit firstly and building your argument on top of it. Then we can find civilized way to talk about it

I'm still shocked lord's of the fallen apparently got redone multiple times during development. Or so I was told. Another shocking thing is when game reviewers got copies really early they even told the devs they shouldn't release yet. Kinda rough that even though knowing this the devs released it.

"Eating shit is fine, but dont tell me its chocolate" - Asmongold 2023

First of all, every reviewer that i listen in youtube, etc i keep in mind that his job is only produce content, and not be a player, not enjoy a game, taking his time to play it properly, and most of youtuber are not too good at gaming, just because his main focus is not to be good, but to produce videos. There is a lot of scandals of youtubers that talked about games that they never played before, that is not your case Asmongold, i trust your reviews and your speech cause you are transparent clean in it. With all that in mind, tha case of Lords of the Fallen, its a sensitive one, cause the game is pretty good in any aspect, its a solid 8/10 game, but its harder than most of other games in the category, and some design decisions make it "not fun" for people that is used to games that facilitate some of this aspects. This is why youtubers are not liking it and gamers are liking it, cause the hardcore player have time, and his main focus is getting fun, not rush a gameplay.

Well, there are game dev theories, level design theories etc, they didn't came out of nowhere, but from objective observation of how much and when people have fun in general, so review should be a mixture of objective and subjective.

The tongue in cheek "objective review" he does is literally every Salt Factory video

The logic behind having to finish Gollum before giving a negative review is bad.

"sKiLl iSsUe" when the neckbeards couldn't think of any actual arguments

I've completed the game twice now, and I liked it from the start. I think the lamp and the umbral realm is a cool mechanic, albeit sometimes a bit clunky. The game did magic and ranged weapons better than Elden Ring, while also providing weapons that scale solely on your caster stats. I can understand many of the gripes people have with the game, and I've also suffered from poor connection in multiplayer and so on. It seems many don't really get the umbral lamp and its uses, which obviously impacts their enjoyment of the game. I've also seen a 30-hour review of someone who didn't find neither the blacksmith nor the umbral NPC in the main hub who sells boss gear, which no doubt would colour their whole experience of the game. All in all, I think it's an okay game with a troubled launch.

Not only reviews but even gamedev is like that. In game design, nothing is ever objective. You design by agreed upon convention or as a middle ground between intents (a subjective idea of how the game should be, defined by several people) and your interpretation of these intents (also a subjective idea of how the game should be, defined by you and whoever you're talking to). If you're designing a mechanic and there's one version of this mechanic you like and another you dislike, you're more likely to do something closer to the first, there's no objectivity to it. Even if you want to pick the one that more closely aligns with the intents, you'll still end up unconsciously finding reasons why the first aligns more with the intents than the second, and ignoring the counterpoints. A lot of what you learn early is to give up on your ideas. Learning to accept others' ideas if they argue better than you or represent the majority opinion. It's all about embracing the subjectivity of the medium, there's not a single bit of objectivity to it.

I quit new world after 2 hours, i quit diablo 4 at level 30, i quit star field after 25 hours. I dont need to play 100 hours to know the game im playing sucks ass.

idk man, the ratio of bad to good reviews of LotF is overwhelmingly one sided, most people have a few complains about the game but generally the game was received positively. I don't think creating an echo chamber by only listening to the few that agree with you is either healthy or productive, in fact it's pretty boring.

"Go Eat shit if you like it but don't say it's chocolate!" Words to live by!

Very interesting discussion on objectivity vs subjectivity at 5:18 in Mauler's A Critique of Star Wars The Force Awakens - Introduction

Yeah, people seem to either just not understand what subjective or objective actually mean or they don't care and they simply label everything that could be construed as negative as "subjective opinion." I'll be like, "Why do these rocks have a lower resolution than the dirt they're sticking out of?" and people be like "I think it looks good. That's just your opinion that it looks low res."

I wish people would google the definitions of "review", "critique" and "analysis". It would preemptively shut down so many arguments. From Cambridge Dictionary: Review - a report that gives an opinion about a new book, film, etc Critique - a report that says what is good and bad about something Analysis - the act of studying or examining something in detail, in order to discover or understand more about it, or your opinion and judgment after doing this So a pure review is an opinion by definition. It can't be measured or verified - it's subjective. A reviewer can spice things up with some analysis. Break down the game into details. Each of the details can be measured and verified. They are objective. Enemy variety can be measured. So can hitbox accuracy, animation frames, weapon and character stats etc. . You can present them "as is" so a viewer can make their own conclusion. AND THAN you provide your opinion.

One of the problems with a review is that as long as the developer works on the game (patches and dlc) you would need to do a review after every patch because the annoying things could change

On the example of Gollum, its important to realize that every single player can agree its bad, but its still an opinion. Everyone sharing the exact same opinion does not make it a fact

why the original video is taken down though? did he delete it?

love how asmond can say some of this shit but go an say the complete opposite of it in his diablo videos. boss hitboxes an mechanics for one example.

I think there are definitely definitive objective metrics you can hold games to for a review. There are also very subjective things that can be in a review. Titles should really get two scores. One based on those objective things, and one based on the subjective things.

The idea of building criteria for a proper review is pretty funny. Keep moving the goalposts folks!

"Objective" doesn't mean the inerrant dictates of an omniscient perspective. It means making an honest attempt to figure out how the product holds up to consistent principles of game design, or how it will be received by the market as a whole - rather than just your own personal design preferences or experience as a player. Definitely a place for both, though.

It’s a great game but to each there own

500 years ago 99.99% of the population thought the earth was flat, still not objective.

So, here's my take on how reviews should work and the responsibility of each involved party. As a reviewer, it's your job to provide your thoughts on the experience and make sure to distinguish the nuances of those thoughts. Things such as how long you've played, how far you made it, if you played alone or among a community setting (like a streamer), how long individual play sessions were, etc. It's your responsibility to give the context so that people know exactly what you mean when you say something is 'good' or 'bad'. As a consumer, however, you have an equally important job that I think too many people forget. You have to be aware of the reviewer and their tendencies within the medium. For example, if you know a reviewer has played and mostly enjoyed every Soulsborne title, you know that there should be a generally positive slant toward games coming out with similar gameplay features. If that same reviewer tends to have negative opinions toward RTS games, you know that there will be inherent negative bias when reviewing the latest one. That's where the distinction between subjective views comes in. You should know the overall experience and preference of the reviewer so that you can discern the subjective nuance to come to your own conclusion on the level of quality of the game. As a final point, the problem that a lot of people seem to have is that they watch a review of a game they've already purchased and played. They already have their own opinions on it, so it becomes more about seeking validation than actually wanting another opinion on a game. The point of a review is for people that don't already have set opinions on it, in order to encourage or discourage further support for the game itself.

saying an soulslike is bad is equivalant off putting hand in bee nest... after the quantumtv thing just why 🤣

Yeah there are a lot of problems the game coulda done better but I feel the structured idea of the game is good. The lantern has its flaws but it’s a semi new type of mechanic so of course it does. The game stuttering like crazy if to many enemies spawn (which happens a lot), and some bad clipping of attacks in narrow spaces. Even with all that I feel the armor, weapons, stats, and builds you can make in the game can make it enjoyable especially with a friend. I’ve made 2 different builds and it wasn’t to hard. If you just kinda focus on what your after in the game rather than every single issue it can be fun to run through it so you don’t feel like you wasted your money. Until it goes on sale or free for monthly pass on consoles or just steam in general. This game is definitely a wait for sale game, but if you already got it and are focusing on problems that you can’t have fun. It’s better to try and find random people (if you don’t have a friend) and try to beat through once with a build you may enjoy. There’s quiet a bit that feel satesfying.

Most reviews are not objective, most opinions are not objective, but Mauler has a great discussion on subjectivity vs objectivity in one of his videos that convinced me that there is such a thing as an objective review. You do this by stating objective facts and then comparing that to an agreed upon standard.

I love DK64 and I completely understand why other don’t, the problems they experienced don’t bother me and I see the gameplay loop in a different light. It’s not a great game to 100% but it sure is a fun game to play and beat

I skipped this game

objectivity is a theoretical lens… For example: 30 degrees celsius is an objective statement. “It’s hot outside” is subjective. The difference is fundamental to human reality.

I agree with the fundamental point but it's obvious this guy was just being a contrarian for the sake of it, got called out, and is seething about it.

The editors will be eating good this week lmao

STILL LOVE THIS GAME. CAN'T WAIT FOR THE DLC.

The only thing that stops people from having “objectivity” is ignorance. There is also a level of objectivity in the subjectivity of a thing. For example, two games can have the same exact mechanic that you like but one does it better than the other. That’s an objective metric. Just because you can’t tell why it’s better (or good or bad) doesn’t make it less so.

The word you're looking for is critical I think. Critical meaning assessing what masses of people think alongside looking outside your own biases to see what is deemed "good" or "bad." Objective is: The game has enemies Subjective is: I don't like that much enemy density. Critical: There are too many enemies in this game (by most peoples' standards) and because there are too many, enemy placement is bad. Likewise, a good reviewer should always be *aiming* for critical, and when they mention subjective opinions (I like...) it should be stressed it's their opinion. Being critical should be implied.

I've heard the argument for certain games that goes "oh, but it gets good after 20/30/50/100 hours!" And to quote Zero Punctuation, yeah, I could put my hand on a hot stove for 20 hours and I'd probably stop feeling the pain, but I'd have also done serious damage to myself.

Back in School we were told we had to do a Book Review and present it to the class I wish I knew back then that I could have just read the first couple pages said the Book was Ass and called that my Book Review Pretty sure the Teacher expected us to finish the Book

Bro need to finish the whole burger to tell you it taste like garbage juice

Was expecting a video about Creative Assembly and the nuking of thier customer base today.

“I was right, just like I always am” Ya know the self-praising just gets annoying after a while

We can only trust the 1 and only worthy review, from the GodGamer, Quon69

The scaling is terrible. I bought the Dark Crusader to mow through enemies and to beat that stupid boss with the wings. After 14 hours, NOPE!

They just dropped that halloween event. This game is good and the devs care about it a lot. This reviewer sounds jaded.

"I am right, like i'm always am" "If you want to eat shit, eat it." Tells you everything you need to know about this guy.

lords of the fallen is the best soulslike game of all time.