Thanks for your video. We were mentioned here, so here are our 5 cents on the topic. We haven't tested the Uno ourselves, but we have tested the Duo PID, the Baby T, and the Dream PID. We have conducted temperature measurements with the Scace, both following our own protocol and using the WBC protocol. We can attest to the very good temperature stability of Ascaso's thermoblocks. However, resistance in the puck is a prerequisite for this. This can actually be calculated, as the energy applied to the thermoblock is directly converted into temperature. If the flow is too high, meaning if there is a lack of resistance, the machine cannot mathematically bring the temperature up to +90 degrees. As long as you are not brewing more than +/- 90 ml (resulting in 45 g of Espresso) in 25 seconds, the temperature will be reached. We have measured standard deviations, depending on the machine, between 0.8 and 1.3 (from second 4 to 25 of the extraction), which can actually be compared with many dual boilers. For example, the Bezzera Duo had 1.19, the ECM Synchronika had 1.21, etc.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing your experience. A couple comments sent me to find your experiment but I could only find it German and the translation left me with more questions than answers. In the end, I respect that you approached this in a more scientific way, and it absolutely makes sense that the thermoblock would struggle to heat water coming through it at such a rapid pace. Yet, my concerns about it’s thermal stability still stand though my approach was admittedly less than ideal. The difficulties the machine had at extracting lighter roasts and larger doses lead me down this path, and I chose to show this test I conducted instead of my TDS results of the reduced shot temperatures I was experiencing in the cup for the sake of brevity and visualization. That said, I do have difficulty believing that in the cases of a proper boiler machine, dual or not, that the thermoblock will be more consistent in temperature flash heating flowing water than a container full of water set to a certain temperature. But as a show of good faith, I will pin your comment and let those who watch the video and read your comment decide for themselves how to proceed.
@Isilrrond11 ай бұрын
@@Sprometheus I think at this point you are just trying to justify the lack of a more accurate way to measure the temperature stability without a better way than just a kitchen thermometer and portafilter without any resistance, to many subscribers already explained to you why this way it's certainly not accurate and you just said it's the only you have to made the measure and you can't have a Scace or something similar to do a right approach for this. But if you have YT channel and make reviews of espresso machines and other stuff how you can't justify having some like the Scace to have the right tool for your reviews? I think it's an investment that will help you and will increase your views/monetization with more accurate reviews because at the end we saw your channel for your honest opinion but when it's made in the right way because of course your opinion will influence future buyers
@Kaffeemacher11 ай бұрын
@@Sprometheus Thanks for pinning, Sprometheus. Technically speaking, what Ascaso uses is a thermocoil. Decent also uses a thermocoil. Some other modern machines are using Thick Film Heaters with even less thermal mass. I think the most important thing is good and fast sensor technology to make good use of these technologies. If not, you are absolutely right, and the temperature will be super off.
@patrickmichaels531810 ай бұрын
@@Sprometheus I feel kind of bummed out for the engineers at Ascaso that you put up a video asserting their machine has unstable temps including a clip that suggests it lost 10 degrees in 10 seconds under normal usage. That feels totally unfair if they aren't even allowed to point out a flaw in your methodology that ends up turning into what basically amounts to a huge smear that effectively makes the machine a no-go with anyone who trusts you and doesn't like Starbucks espresso. And when called out, with zero empirical evidence, you just assert that your conclusion stands because you (subjectively) thought shots were sour and there are some undisclosed TDS results hanging around somewhere (which technically couldn't be pinned on a temperature decrease conclusively anyhow)? If you thought sticking a thermometer in a gusher was a good metric of something relevant to the machine's ability to make espresso, why would we assume that anything else you did was better thought out? (And I'm absolutely confused as to why you thought a test that you told others would be "quick to point out" the flaw with, is a good way to demonstrate a "problem" that you only provided anecdotal evidence of otherwise. If it were me, I'd just admit my measurements were flawed to the point of being completely irrelevant and edit the video to add something in recognition of that fact so that I wouldn't be continuing to mislead consumers considering this machine (or the souped-up variants of it that have the same brew thermoblock). But maybe that's just me thinking the people who build these things and get them to market deserve to have their work accurately assessed when put in front of 100,000+ people, and that the person doing the assessment needs to be accountable for the claims they make--especially when the company is taking a risk by not sticking with the boilers that so much of the espresso community believes is mandatory for making good espresso.
@j---land6 ай бұрын
Also not mentioned in the video is the PID offset of the machine. Various users have done experiments and recommended anywhere between a 4-8 degree offset. If your offset was set to 0 (default for the machine as shipped), you will definitely be underextracting light roasts, which might have led to the sour shots you mention. Once I discovered this and set the offset (in my case 7 deg), my shot quality and consistency increased dramatically.
@handshake88311 ай бұрын
Finally a review of this machine by someone experienced, knowledgeable and most importantly *not paid by Ascaso*
@camperista11 ай бұрын
Fully agree. I wonder if the Duo has the same downside.
@Alice42980011 ай бұрын
I had such a hard time finding reviews by 3rd party users and I ended up needing to read Reddit posts for reviews and ended up purchasing the Duo because I liked how it looked and it seemed good enough.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
@@camperista honestly, we had discussed them sending the Duo after this video, but based on the issues with the UNO I am very sure the main issue persists.
@LightZone911 ай бұрын
@@Sprometheusmaybe you could jump to the Baby T in order to test their higher end designs.
@cshawnb20 күн бұрын
So just so I know, which reviews are paid for by Ascaso.
@klizzt11 ай бұрын
I've been daily driving a Duo at our place for more than two years now, actually learned to make espresso on the machine. And I have to say, you're right on several of your points: the included baskets are way too small, by the time the thermoblock is at temperature the portafilter is still completely cold, the setup of the steam wand makes steaming small quantities without producing a huge mess difficult and the volumetric "automation" varies so much that I manually stop my shots every time using a coffee scale (my single is programmed for a quick flush and my double is programmed to run very long and i just interrupt it). But so far I've not had great trouble with overly sour shots due to the water being to cold for proper extraction. Now granted, i use 18g doses, not 20, and my roasts are medium, not super light. but so far this machine has been rock solid at making great espresso for us. (we struggle to enjoy most coffee we're served at cafes these days, that seems to be an unforseen downside to owning an espresso machine)
@d.a.242611 ай бұрын
Agree with all of the above, especially with the unfortunate volumetric flow meter placement (before the OPV). However, I have had much more stable automatic shots in combination with pre-infusion (e.g. setting 3-5). It takes away some of the variance produced by the operator
@matiasnruffa10 ай бұрын
Is true about the portafilter being cold when starting the machine, but if you are in a hurry, you can run an empty double shot to warm it up, leaving the hot water inside the basket until use. That speeds up the process. And if you use a bottomless portafilter, the only thing that needs to be warmed up is the basket.
@klizzt10 ай бұрын
@@matiasnruffa yeah, that's absolutely true of course. I try to avoid that usually because I'm using bottled water in the machine and want to waste as little as possible. in my morning routine I'll now use the water I boil for tea to preheat my cups and the portalfilter before use
@sgabe710 ай бұрын
Driving a Steel Duo v1 for a month and have noticed much of the same you mentioned. Temp has been a non issue for my med. roast 18g, I too manually extract with a scale, yet I have had very good results with my milk, using 6 or 8oz. The only (tiny) issue I have is, I wish the steam was more 'on demand', like the Profitec 600 pro I use at work (obviously the perks of a dual boiler).
@cshawnb20 күн бұрын
@@d.a.2426agree the placement is not ideal, but if I’m understanding correctly, if the OPV is never activated, the point is moot. And IMHO the OPV should rarely if ever be activated because it shouldn’t be reduced from around 11 bar. Shots should be adjusted with grind, temp and puck prep, not OPV. if you simply lower the OPV to reduce pressure in an attempt to improve your shot, that won’t work. You’ll still get bad shots and if the OPV activates, you’re def getting an interrupted and bad shot.
@TheDusty0ne11 ай бұрын
Interesting that you had this dropping temperature experience. I saw reviews from "Kaffeemacher" from Switzerland who tested the steel duo PID and the Dream PID (Basically the uno in a smaller shell) and they stated it excellent temperature stability (they said in fact it's even more stable than most boiler machines including the LMLM and GS3). They use an extensive test protocol with a sensor portafilter. But they also said that you have to make sure to pre heat the portafilter properly as the thermoblock is at temp way earlier than the portafilter. I don't doubt you or your experiences though. Maybe it's a problem of different voltages or something. Or maybe your temperature offset wasn't good. It seems to be a problem with this machine as with many PID controlled machines.
@davethetaswegian11 ай бұрын
@@Big-Professor-6436 Yes, putting a thermometer into the spout of the portafilter and running water will not work for measuring temperature stability on most small boiler machines. I know it doesn't work on a Gaggia Classic for example. The thermoblock in the UNO seems to fall into the same category.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Maybe that’s the case. I didn’t look up reviews or tests on on this machine, but there was no other reason I could find it was failing to produce decent extractions on light roasts as well as not so hot shots after the fact. Sure testing in this way isn’t the best, I’ll admit that. But it’s what I had on hand, and spending $500 on a scace wasn’t an option for a one-off test. So this got me the results I felt were reasonable. And considering how stable the GS3 was it seems the most plausible explanation. I have to say I’d be shocked if flash heating water in a thermoblock would be more consistent than a boiler full set to a certain temp. If that was the case you’d think thermoblocks would be far more common because of the efficiency and power savings.
@goose-lw6js11 ай бұрын
@@Sprometheus Was the temperature offset on your machine configured by the seller? The PID on all ascasos has some offset which varies from machine to machine (can be up to +/- 6ºC) and it has to be configured using a Scace. Maybe you were brewing much colder or hotter than you typically are?
@d077Z11 ай бұрын
@@Sprometheus A DE1 is generally temperature stable with effectively a glorified thermoblock. So are sufficiently large HX machines* (which also don't have a brew boiler). This isn't a defence of the Acasco implementation, just the possibility of effective themoblocks.
@TheDusty0ne11 ай бұрын
@@Sprometheus thx for the long reply. I think thermoblocks do have the potential (if well made). I think the reason they aren’t that popular (yet) is because most companies don’t want to innovate that much and having a boiler seems to be a given for most people. It’s a somewhat safe bet. Innovations on the (home) espresso machine market are slow. I think in fact there might be more thermoblocks and alternative heating ways coming. Also nowadays small boilers are also very efficient and quick.
@robertw49184 күн бұрын
I like the comment that it's made for a dark roast, european and a quick espresso shot. It was entirely why I bought it and served this function well so far. I will say that I am very happy with the steaming function for the secondary function for the occassional latte.
@goose-lw6js11 ай бұрын
Great review!!! I have an Ascaso Dream which is the same as the Uno just with a different shell. I really like the workflow with a thermoblock in combination with a hand grinder. The machine is heated up by the time you are done with dosing and grinding. Just needs a flush to also get the portafilter heated up quickly. Extremely low energy usage. Some additions: - The screw on the side doesn't adjust the pump but the overpressure valve and unfortunately the volumetric sits before the OPV. So if the OPV kicks in, your shot volume will be off (always do it manually!). - The included baskets are all trash. The holes in the double basket don't reach all the way to the side and the other 4 you get are completely useless anyway. - Definitely get the machine from a good seller who will configure the temperature offset. The PID works great but always has an offset which is different from machine to machine and you need a Scarce to properly configure that. - Steaming for a single capuccino works great with some practice but more is a huge pain. Theres also the Ascaso Duo which is a dual thermoblock but it has practically the same issue (only difference is that you can do it while pulling the shot). - Heavy vibrations are often a problem with Ascaso machines. I would love to see a thermoblock with PID and rotary pump.
@sebaba00111 ай бұрын
I think ascaso baby T plus has what you say but it's very expensive
@goose-lw6js11 ай бұрын
@@sebaba001 Very true. $4000 is way too expensive for me :(
@cshawnb20 күн бұрын
That’s why you shouldn’t decrease the OPV to try to fix your shots. Leave it high enough that it doesn’t activate except in the event of a bad malfunction.
@brendansmith11 ай бұрын
As an owner of the Ascaso Baby T Plus, I'm blown away by how well this machine is designed. That being said, my coworker owns the Duo and that might be the sweet spot for a lot of people, frankly.
@bisem43311 ай бұрын
I wonder why the Duo wasn't mentioned at all in the video.
@ihavenospacebar23111 ай бұрын
Declining temp profile is a good thing, experimenting with temp profiles on a decent will make this very clear. If your light roasts are sour on this, crank the starting temp to max and run the shot longer. The initial higher temp as well as the increased water volume will decrease sourness.
@Kareberries11 ай бұрын
I do this exactly. 2.5 ratio at 98c. I'm finally able to have third wave light roast coffee with a machine that only has a 3 min startup. 5 min if I want the basket hot too.
@AchieveBusinessCoaching11 ай бұрын
I have the Ascaso Steel Duo PID and overall I am quite happy with it. The Duo means I don't have to wait for steam (unlike the Uno) as it has two thermoblocks. I drink mostly darker roasts and use a 18 gram basket. The one negative for me is the volumetric presets are not very consistent from shot to shot, so like others I set the duration for much longer than I need and just use a scale to stop the flow at the correct volume.
@bisem43311 ай бұрын
I have a Bezzera with volumetric presets and I never use it. The shots vary for many reasons I suppose so I find it just as easy to look at the second hand on my wall clock and the volume flow.
@tulenik715 ай бұрын
the volume varies if OPV opens so if you will use a bit coarser grinding, it can be prevented or a bit higher OPV setting extraction pressure is not that critical variable
@espressopool11 ай бұрын
I saw you used the Preinfusion with 0 Seconds water flow and 5 seconds Pause. That means you just waited to start the shot 5 seconds later. If you extracted fruity and complex coffees that way, it may explain why you did not like the results in the cup. Our attempts with fruity coffees were definitely delicious but with a different setting of the Preinfusion… best regards from Hamburg/ Germany!👋🏼
@cshawnb20 күн бұрын
^this. He had the machine programmed incorrectly for pre infusion.
@tyxx11 ай бұрын
The Swiss German KZfaqrs / coffee geeks „Kaffeemacher“ tested the Duo PID and came to the conclusion that this was an exceptionally temperature-stable machine, better than most. They back this up with an extensive test protocol including multi-shot temperature curves. What you saw could be limited to the Uno, but I would not write it off so easily.
@goose-lw6js11 ай бұрын
It's the way he measured it. The flow rate is too high without puck pressure for the thermoblock to heat up the water and holding the sensor to the spout will always be inaccurate.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
I just looked this up on their blog and translated it and couldn’t find any information on stability behind them just saying it was stable. Is this info in video or a blog post?
@NilsBruch11 ай бұрын
The drop in temperature is not a problem. The thermoblock is programmed to give good temperature when the flow rate is according to an espresso, not when there is no puck resistance which is an irrelevant testing result. You have to test the temperature with a coffe puck in the portafilter to reduce the flow accordingly.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
I mean many folks are quick to point that test out, and I knew they would. The fact of the matter is, Im aware it’s beyond what a normal water debit is for espresso, it was to show the discrepancy between a boiler stability and the thermoblock. Im happy with the results, believe they show the issue that held back it’s ability to brew lighter roasts and larger doses though it may be exaggerated. In the end, take it or leave it.
@NilsBruch11 ай бұрын
Thanks for your response. I believe your testing/tasting results. I was just a little surprised because I usually heard that temperature stability was an important selling point for this machine.
@rafraf355311 ай бұрын
I love this Coffee machine, for a competitive price you get lots of high end features thus saving energy costs
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoy it. It definitely is power efficient!
@fredericl619010 ай бұрын
I don’t know if it’s already written, but the Uno sold in Europe is a 240 volt machine, with a power rating of over 2000 watts. It’s way more than what is sold in America. I guess the electronics and pumps consumptions are the same, so the Thermoblock there should be on another level. Ascaso should offer this same model here. I’ll be happy to have a special electrical circuit just for it.
@DJaysParadise11 ай бұрын
I‘m not an expert but i doubt that the results from measuring clear water flow out of the portafilter is really meaningful. At the level of this channel a scace device would be a better fit for sure.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
I’m not an expert on the technical side either, but running a YT channel on a shoestring budget means I make do with what I have. A scace is $500 plus dollars and isn’t a good investment for the rare occasion it seems useful for a channel that mainly focuses on brewing not the technical side. Sure, people can doubt the accuracy or results, but I think it’s clear that a boiler filled with water at a set temp will always be more stable than flash heating, that’s the point I was trying to make, and the visual I was capable of providing.
@Sascha9876511 ай бұрын
please review also the duo pid steam plus! Really looking forward to this model.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
I think we planned on a DUO as well, so it’s likely you’ll see one here.
@Sascha9876511 ай бұрын
great! @@Sprometheus
@mikkoutevsky390211 ай бұрын
I'm surprised you attribute these problems to declining temperature - a lot of folks who are pulling really modern espresso are actively seeking out declining temperature curves, coupled with turbo-style shots, to reduce astringency in light roasts. I'm thinking of folks like Rohan (pocketscience) and the ExDos! and ExTres! Decent profiles. Have you tried those light roasts with coarse grind sizes and lower pressures on this machine? For that style of shot, declining temp seems like a dream!
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
I mean these issues are due to a declining temp, particularly when pulling shots in more contemporary shot styles. Sure, turbo shots and what not it will perform better, but to assume that everyone buying a machine at this price point is planning on pulling highly controlled shots that are popular on Home Barista forums or Reddit isn’t a common reality. If that’s the case, hand press/lever machines would be the peak of performance for those styles anyway. I think a big trap we fall into as coffee hobbyists/professionals is assuming everyone is on the same page, and with reviews, particularly on more moderately priced, prosumer options I think approaching it like this makes the most sense for the widest audience.
@user-oj6jn5ii6e11 ай бұрын
Nice review. I have one of these. My wife bought me one for a milestone birthday (and I couldn’t hide my disappointment because I had my heart set on an Eagle 1). In short, the machine is “fine”, but for all the reasons you mentioned, it’s a long way from being the dream machine I was hoping for. The worst thing is the performance of the thermoblock. E.g In the morning, my wife and I have noticed that whoever gets the first espresso pulled by the machine gets a much better cup than the second. The thermoblock just can’t seem to keep at temperature for two or more successive pulls. It’s a pity. I’ll get another year or two out of this machine, but I can’t wait to upgrade as soon as my finances allow!
@davidp6057 ай бұрын
Thanks buddy. This comment along with the other comments have helped me make up my mind. Will be looking at getting something else. Too bad ut looks so good 😢
@tulenik715 ай бұрын
with correctly prepared puck/correctly set OPV (these 2 variables correlate) it is impossible, the power is enough to deliver up to 3.6 ml/s (2 standard espressos under 30 s) so the problem is flow too high, that means a) pressure too high (it is quite probable it was set to max at the factory, and that will be close to 12-15 bar) and/or b) puck resistance too low (grinding too coarse) by the way, extraction of standard 30 g espresso should be around 30 s, so retaining that flow temperature is guaranted
@cshawnb20 күн бұрын
Not being able to hide your disappointment with a wife’s gift is the worst. I completely empathize. 😂
@CarlosVargas-js8qz11 ай бұрын
Great concise review! Last year I had the DUO for 48 hours. Sent it back due to issues with the steaming but for the short lived time sitting on my bar, I can say that the thing I liked the most was the aesthetics. I only pulled a handful of shots and it was ok. Super easy to use though.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
For sure, I mean no complaints on the looks and the usability. Really it only falls short on that temp stability. I was pleasantly surprised with the steam power.
@guusjuh9711 ай бұрын
Very nice review, I always keep my Ascaso on the edge of the counter to have enough room under the wand to steam. That design could definitely be improved upon! I do however disagree on you on the limitations of the thermoblock, I own an Ascaso myself and I honestly don't have any issue with temperature stability. I do however limit myself to espresso and lungos. By running the machine with no resistance (as in your temperature testing) the flowrate is way higher then it would be during an espressoshot or a lungo. This higher flowrate means less contact time and thus a lower heating capacity of the thermoblock. A temperature test whilst running an espresso or lungo shot would represent its actual performence a lot better in my opinion.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
I understand your point here, and yes the flow rate is always going to be faster without the back pressure of a puck, but the issue still stands as relevant. For instance with my grinder and current workflow I rarely see extractions below 21% and with this machine I was barely scraping the low 18%’s with medium to light roasts on doses 17 and above. The only thing that was different about this machine than most of the others I’ve tried is the thermoblock, and the low tech way I choose to display the issue, though not realistic in flow rate, does show the problem. As well as the low peak of the machine hitting the mid 180s at the group with the machine set at 206. So the sum of all of the information I collected, i.e. low extractions, lower temp shots on longer pulls, sour extractions on light roasts, only can lead me to one place and that’s where the heat comes.
@guusjuh9711 ай бұрын
@@Sprometheus Thank you for your response, it's a very clear answer! It's honestly a joy to see how well you test the machines before posting a review. Your testing and review is much more valuable than my anecdotal experience with the machine (and most of the reviews online that are pretty much just that). Their prosumer model, the Baby T, uses a thermal loop around the steam boiler to preheat the water before entering the thermoblock. I wonder how that system would fare.
@kitcraft951611 ай бұрын
Let me start off with a thank you as I always enjoy your content. I have been waiting for an Ascaso review to drop on this channel. Most of the downsides or rather quirks are actually something that appeal to me. I like semi-dark (dark in in modern terms) Neapolitan blends pulled at a ratio of about 1:1.75. I typically use a dose of 16 grams only because I don't have a 14-gram basket. Me, I "discovered" espresso in my early 20's when I moved to Spain so that is kind of where my tastes align. So, I am really interred in seeing the Duo in action. Mostly because I am impatient and dislike a steam first workflow. And, it has a waterspout (plus no boiler so I guess I should be fine using it for Americanos). And while I love my 3-second heat up time on my Breville I dislike having to do 3 dummy shots to make sure shot A is the same(ish) temp as shot B. (Though my wife would prefer something "easier" to use. That is an entirely different topic though.) Anyway, hope to see the duo on here someday. I won't be upgrading 'till next year (after my move) anyway.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
You’re welcome and thanks for watching and the detailed comment. I get you, and I think there’s definitely a place for this machine on the market, and the Duo as well. I’m glad I had a chance to give this one a go, and as you said the quirks and downsides here are not going to hit the same for everyone.
@glenn25954 ай бұрын
I hope you have a chance to review the Baby T plus, because the unstable temperature control in the head in the UNO is a deal breaker for me. I really want a Baby T, because of the thermoblock seems less wasteful than a boiler. I like your reviews the best because you seem to test the practical functionality of the machines. I'm thinking the Baby-T does have a steam boiler and I'm thinking the termoblock would be bigger than the UNO, so I'm thinking it would be stable and be able to handle those open house weeks I have. Thanks for the video and review.
@Levinator2511 ай бұрын
Just a quick FYI. The two preinfusion numbers indicate preinfusion time and a post-preinfusion pause. So the setting shown in the video [0-5] is 0 preinfusion with a 5 second pause. Just tested this out of curiosity on my Duo and it does nothing. Just pulls the shot without any preinfusion or pause.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
It’s interesting you mention this because from watching the pressure gauge it appears it would run for 5 seconds prior to building pressure. I even watched the group flow without a portafilter and it appears to just gently flow without much pressure prior to the 5 second mark.
@d.a.242611 ай бұрын
Agree with @Levinator25 comment. You have to set the first digit as well, otherwise the pump will just run through at full pressure. Mine is pre-2022 model and before the software update the user could even set the pause only, with a fixed pre-infusion of 3 seconds
@sotirisdiamantopoulos23111 ай бұрын
Thanks for the unbiased review! A question: how did you manage to constrict the flow of water in the Ascaso at 120ml/20''? Or was it unconstrained water flow, i.e., full water debit (which would mean that the water debit is 180ml/30'', rather low)? Would you consider that for normal and normalish shots (1/2, 1/3 ratios in 25-35'') the temperature would remain stable? I guess that most of the times, most of the people are using this kind of espresso machines for this kind of shots (not that I have anything to back this up :) )
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Good question. That was at its full flow, so that’s it’s flow rate, or at least the unit I had. I had to pull back on the GS3’s flow rate to match the output and time. So I do think it is definitely on the lower side. I do have an expectation that that through a shot the temp will drop, but in my experience boilers tend to perform better over every shot timeframe, but this one doesn’t drop rapidly immediately and I think that tends towards it performing better with shorter ratios and lower doses, and that was backed up by taste and refractometer.
@nomadsolos11 ай бұрын
I have used an Ascaso Dream PID fir a couple of years now. I agree there are some downsides to the machine but that said I have learned to make good espresso drinks with it. I did find that turning down the pump pressure really was a game changer for me. It came out of the box with the pump pressure maxxed out. That made it difficult to make a decent shot as the pump pressure destroyed my coffee pucks. Turning down the pressure to 9Bar max made quite a consistent double shot and I make double latte drinks daily. It only takes about a minute for the steam to be to pressure on the Dream machine, and that is about all the time I need to go to the fridge and fill the pitcher and place my thermometer on my frothing pitcher. Good review of the Ascaso Uno.
@andreas312010 ай бұрын
I am struggling quite a while with consistent shots. Also tried to limit pressure around 9,5 - 10 bars against blind basket. What is your setting? Shots seem to get better now.
@nomadsolos7 ай бұрын
Just seeing your question. A few things to offer: First I lowered the pressure a great deal. It came from Ascaso Factory set at a very high 14 bars. I lowered it and pulled some very sweet shots from light roast single origin beans. Since then I have replaced the grinder with a Niche Zero. A change of grinders also means minute changes in how I pull shots, I am now gone back to going up slightly in bar pressure, with shooting for the 9 bar range, pulled at a temperature setting of 202 degrees F, and a Preinfusion of 5 seconds. @@andreas3120
@cheekster77711 ай бұрын
Thank you and have yourself a wonderful weekend, my friend.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
You’re welcome! And thanks for stopping by, have a great weekend as well!
@user-gi2iv1sv3c11 ай бұрын
I love your reviews. So compelling. Keep it up.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Thank you my friend!
@fliacragno11 ай бұрын
Great review as always! I'd love you to review the Profitec Go for beginner home enthusiasts.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Thank you, and that’s funny you mention it. I’ve got a GO headed my way.
@ezarowny11 ай бұрын
@@Sprometheus I'd love to know what value the E1 setting (boiler offset, at least I think so) on your Go's PID is set to and if you find it to be accurate. Mine is set to 10º Celsius and I have yet to try and check the accuracy.
@tagheuer0211 ай бұрын
@ezarowny interesting because on the Go Facebook page many say that is not an offset. Seems different advice on Reddit
@scottgeiger645011 ай бұрын
I seriously looked at the Uno but ended up with the ECM Puristika as we don’t usually do milk based drinks. Couldn’t be happier, the ECM is fantastic.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
I’ve only had a chance to use the Synchronika but it was a solid machine! Glad to hear guide happy!
@davidhunternyc111 ай бұрын
Wow, brilliant review. A true, considered critique rather than a sponsored infomercial like so many other coffee channels. Every other review I've seen about the Ascaso Uno waxes poetic and never are there shortcomings. I don't trust these reviews at all. (I'm talking to you, Seattle Coffee Gear.) I wonder if the Ascaso Duo, with two thermoblocks, would fair better in your testing. Better yet, the Baby T, with a boiler, a thermoblock, a rotary pump, and albeit, with a far more expensive price tag.
@pl4nty11 ай бұрын
Thanks for the detailed review! I'm interested to see whether thermoblocks will have a resurgence. I've been using an old dual-thermoblock Sunbeam for a few years, and found it excellent for milk drinks without the cost and slow heating of dual boilers. Simultaneously pulling a shot and steaming milk is really convenient, even if shots are shorter and the steam is weaker
@Kiaulen11 ай бұрын
I've been considering the steel duo (I drink mostly milk drinks and medium/dark roasts). Honestly I love the smaller shot sizes too. Dialing in my single shot basket for my wife has been tough on my barista express, and I'd bet we could meet in the middle at a 14g basket. Also so many haters in these comments 😅 Keep up the good work, man, I love your videos. ❤
@JWomack11 ай бұрын
Yeah buddy! Waiting patiently for this one. You confirmed the pros and cons I had pretty much deduced. I LOVE the look of the machine, and I know they've gone all-in with the this thermoblock tech, but I wish I could get the same look in a Duo with two dedicated boilers. C'est la vie! Based on this, I think a Lelit Elizabeth is my next machine now. Cheers Spro!
@brendansmith11 ай бұрын
The Duo is a fantastic machine
@kennethash711 ай бұрын
I had the uno for a couple weeks. The adjustable OPV is what really sold me, but sadly I had very odd issues with chirping and sputtering during brewing when I attempted to adjust the brew pressure below the factory setting of about 11 bar. The machine produced high pitched noises while also struggling to remain at that constant brew pressure. I returned the Uno and now have a Profitec pro 400. Absolutely love my setup now. The uno was beautiful to look at, but just did not feel trustworthy enough for the price.
@SeanGordon-ym4yf3 ай бұрын
Good looking machine
@user-tn3ty3nk3g11 ай бұрын
As a home user for almost one year for DUO I never had any issues extracting light roast, even without using preinfusion. Also, there are videos on forums with consecutive extractions measured with Scace device, seems very consistent back to back, much more than E61 group head dual boilers. When you measure the temperature drop, assuming your tool can be appropriate ( I really doubt it, that tool is for steak temperature measuring) you should consider only the first 80-100 ml of water, this is the max water you would need for a double shot of espresso, for a regular Yield of 1:2.5 . I really think you should consider borrowing a proper temperature measuring device and run a second video on this topic, otherwise you will end up with a pretty weird and singular conclusion.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Sure, a food thermometer isn’t the best tool for measuring this. I used what I had on hand as I’ve never had an issue with light roast extractions before, and after some troubleshooting this was the test I tired to see what I expected was happening. It confirmed that, albeit low tech. A scace is about $500, and considering the infrequency I’d use it it’s not a good investment, so I guess I’ll end up with a “weird singular conclusion” that is fair, and I feel accurate based on my experience.
@chrismccannIRL9 ай бұрын
I was very tempted by Ascaso Dual PID machines but since im coming from a Sage (Breville) Barista Express with Thermoblock I decided I maybe wanted something different and more Prosumer. I think the technology is definitely interesting and the machines are modern and well built but it just doesn't get the heart fluttering like a proper E61 machine like the ECM Mechanika Slim Heritage edition - which ultimately I bought
@erikroisland501611 ай бұрын
Pretty disappointed in the lack of understanding of heating and flow rate with the temp testing in this video. Im glad the other channel chimmed in about the temp stability. You say you didn't want to buy a $500 scace for a one off test, but you review so many espresso machines. That's a minor investment.
@CH-yp5by10 ай бұрын
Good video, if your not into this modern light roast espresso drinking and more a traditionalist with making espresso than yeah its a nice machine, it also uses about 70% power than the single boiler machine that is constantly. having to heat a boiler which is not bad with our expensive power bills these days
@cruiser3311 ай бұрын
Excellent review, thanks! Do you have some sense of when temperature stability falls off with grams in the cup? For example, would 18g in and 40g out be temperature stable?
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Thank you. So in my tests I would see the temp drop a little quicker at the spouts with coffee as that also absorbed some heat too. So it’s harder to track that and I don’t have an answer directly, but my assumption would be about halfway through, as once it hits it’s peak temp pretty early in the flow, it drops off at a pretty rapid rate.
@martinmanzi183011 ай бұрын
I have the dream zero, which is simpler and cheaper. I really like it and I make daily capuchinos with it. As a downside...it has 57mm which makes upgrades (tamper, portafilter, etc) a pain in the ass
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Interesting, I wonder why they just didn’t squeeze an extra millimeter out of that to be in-line with all their other machines.
@Eradorius11 ай бұрын
@@Sprometheus - Cost - 58mm grouphead is a lot more massive compared to 57mm.. Portafilter is also a smaller beyond that 1 mm - thinner walls and smaller portafilter wings. 58 mm uses E61 style portafilters so grouphead is a lot wider due to that.
@TheDusty0ne11 ай бұрын
@@Eradorius or maybe marketing? I mean you are surely right but the differences probably aren’t in fact because they already have established production lines for 58 mm and making a somewhat niche 57 mm isn’t that cheap either.
@aviadleibovich2 ай бұрын
Have you tried playing with temp offset?
@classicrockonly6 ай бұрын
I’m glad I watched this again otherwise I’d be a sad Ascaso owner. This machine checks all the boxes, but the inability to make quality light roast shots is a dealbreaker
@tulenik715 ай бұрын
but that assumption is false
@classicrockonly5 ай бұрын
@@tulenik71 do you have one to know?
@tulenik715 ай бұрын
@@classicrockonly yes
@classicrockonly5 ай бұрын
@@tulenik71 and you’ll do 18-20g and 40-60g output shots, turbo or allongé shots too?
@tulenik715 ай бұрын
@@classicrockonly regarding turbo shot - read what wrote Kaffemacher below. It is really flow rate what can cause tempereture drop. Nothing else. If 90 ml in 25 s is OK, turbo should be still OK. Allongé is approx. 100 ml in 40 s, so it is also OK. By the way, do you know basic thermodynamics? Because it is all about that. If you suppose physics (or chemical engineering, this is simple "flow" reactor - not even regular flow reactor, because one "reactant" - coffee - is not continuously delivered) can magically stop working here (based on the time of extraction?), you are completely wrong. The problem with long shots is outside of temperature regulation. The guy here completely botched methodology of temperature stability testing and you bought it, maybe you wanted some confirmation for your choice. That's psychology, and it is completely another chapter. (I am professor of chemistry and if I cannot find a difference by using HPLC, GC, MS, NMR or other analytical method, any "difference" coming from degustation is simply placebo... and placebo start to kick pretty hard at the moment you have working PID and flow or pressure (they correlate) control.)
@roblucchetti299311 ай бұрын
For the espresso traditionalist, this seems like a well-executed option.
@markp481111 ай бұрын
Thanks Spro, love your content and that you don’t deep dive into the engineering of these machines. You excel at striking a balance between what you’re tasting and why. I’m an engineer, love coffee and by the weekend have had enough of my profession. Many thanks.
@therearenonamesavailable334411 ай бұрын
I'd love to see/hear your thoughts on the Profitec Go as its a tempting upgrade for my setup but I've heard some mixed reviews. Great video!
@alanroderick715311 ай бұрын
Thank you for the review
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Of course! Thanks for watching my friend, cheers!
@stagus11 ай бұрын
My duo pid was dead from the box (flown control, er01 after 15 seconds of flow), left it on for the whole day, ran the clean cycle and the machine fixed itself. Never had problems again. Looks like it needed some burn-in. I love this machine.
@CaldwellCoffee11 ай бұрын
Always enjoy your reviews! Have you considered measuring the temperature consistency with a Scace device that restricts the water flow to recapitulate a shot of espresso? 120ml in 20s is a significantly higher flow rate than what a coffee puck would experience during an espresso shot. Even a turbo shot would be at most half that flow rate. I’m not sure that a comparably priced machine like Profitec Pro300, with its 300ml boiler, would perform any better in this high flow rate test.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Thank you. I have never felt the need to test the temperature stability in a machine before, and the costs of a scace $500+ just didn’t make sense to have on hand for the rare times id use it so I didn’t think it was worth the cost. It’s definitely a higher flow rate than any shot, but it was the easiest way to visualize the issue I was experiencing beyond me just saying it. In the end I know it’s not the ideal, but happy with the explanation of the issue and still consider it valid seeing how consistent a boiler was next to it with the same water debit.
@CaldwellCoffee11 ай бұрын
@@SprometheusThat makes sense. Having the GS3 definitely provides a gold standard to compare to. I actually have the Pro300, so I could try testing it in the same manner as you did the Duo to see if the smaller boiler performs any better.
@CaldwellCoffee11 ай бұрын
@@Sprometheus So I tried to recreate this with the Pro300 (meat thermometer with no restriction). The Pro300 has a 330mL brew boiler, a faster water flow (150ml in about 17s), and the PID was set to 200F. It starts out at ~193F, hits 200F at 6s, 202F at 8s, 200F at 10s, 198F at 14s, 196F at 17s. So not the same stability you observed with the GS3, but possibly better (at full flow) than the Ascaso thermoblock.
@Intentional_soundscapes1311 ай бұрын
Great review. I understand the limitations of a using a Thermo block for a milk steamer, but My Welhome Pro milk steamer (MS-130T) produces extremely dry and powerful is steam at half of the cost. 🤓
@Stan_sprinkle11 ай бұрын
I mean, if Emilee Bryant can get her kind of latte art out of a Breville Bambino, seems like nobody has an excuse.
@Intentional_soundscapes1311 ай бұрын
@@Stan_sprinkle exactly!..the pitcher nor the steamer, makes a great latte artists..it’s the knowledge and experience that the barista has that it’s the most important thing to success
@biondolg19 ай бұрын
Does the duo share the same issue with the temperature control when using larger baskets?
@snapphanen11 ай бұрын
I am really really really curious on your take on the steel duo PID.
@zazuzonker11 ай бұрын
This is very sincere question (not trying to be funny): Is this machine that much better (~$1000) than my 2019 Gaggia Classic?
@sebaba00111 ай бұрын
He recently had a blind taste test between gaggia and marzocco, and he preferred the gaggia shot... So the gaggia is only as bad as it quirks annoy you. Maybe the low steam power annoys you, or design flaws, or having to temp surf (if you didn't mod with PID), but if you aren't bothered then these expensive machines aren't necessary. Gaggia is like the cheapest machine that makes really good espresso, from then up it's mostly about comfort and control.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
I low key like the Gaggia and really enjoyed it once it has a proper basket, and the lower pressure OPV spring.
@camperista11 ай бұрын
Finally a unbiased review!
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
That’s what I’m here for! Happy to provide it. Thanks for watching!
@Coffeeinthusiast111 ай бұрын
Would be great if you could get your hands on Ascasso Baby T Plus and compare it to Linea Mini, since you been a long time Mini user. Thank you!
@ahmadrezacoffee11 ай бұрын
Delongi Dedica is a thermoblock machine & a very forgiving one for 200 euro. It's even capable of pulling light roast beans.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
I’ve actually heard a lot of good things about that one, I should pick one up and give it a go.
@richarddimech432311 ай бұрын
Could you please share where you got those espresso cups from?
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Yeah, those are from www.odakahome.com
@jensc.h.54811 ай бұрын
i would like to see a scace test
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Always taking donations for one, $500+ for a single tool to do a single test I’ve never felt the need to do before isn’t high on my list.
@jensc.h.54811 ай бұрын
Fair enough, it seems like no one has done it in the steel series
@sprzedamkoc71305 ай бұрын
I was using an old version of Ascaso Uno Prof PID with a boiler like 10 years ago and I don't have good opinion about it. It was expensive, primitive, build quality was terrible (sharp edges, switches were falling off), temperatures were unstable, programming of PID was complicated and almost never resulted in maintaining good temperature (maybe if you were NASA enginer you would handle it), some kind of valve inside broke down and I had to send it to service. Now I use much cheaper Sage Barista Express Impress and I think it is a few levels above that Ascaso. Plus it has build in automatic tamper - that is a revolution I needed in my life. Then I needed like 30 minutes to make an espresso which usually wasn't good. Now I need like 2 minutes for repetable perfection.
@meahalbhagwandas129211 ай бұрын
Plz do the baby T from Ascaso next
@mtpastor454611 ай бұрын
I owned one thermoblock machine ages ago. I would say, this technology won’t fit my need. 1. Incapable to pull more shots with consistency 2. Weak steam power Ascaso makes beautiful machines. However, I dislike the the thermoblock technology. It seems way overpriced to me. I hope Ascaso could produce high end domestic machine which is using traditional “boiler” instead of thermoblock.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Absolutely, consistency definitely suffers, but I will say the steam on this one was pretty surprising. I didn’t expect much but it walks all over the Gaggia, but that is half the price haha.
@tulenik715 ай бұрын
"ages ago" is the key people are often disappointed by "slow" heating of boiler machines, yet they will buy boilers again and again there is an easy way of getting rid of second boiler, by involving thermo block for steam formation or heat exchanger, still common people will buy dual boilers because it is cool they even will never steam the milk alongside extraction, but having dual boiler is a status symbol in fact, thermo blocks are perfectly capable of delivering constant temperature, perfectly repeatable - and if you are - as majority of people here - steaming during extraction, one thermoblock is good enough and of course, thermoblocks are significantly more power efficient (don't really calculated this, but price difference can be paid off pretty quickly) mental rigidity is a real problem here - most people think about TB machines in the context of capsule machines (at the moment, I have a "hybrid" - single boiler with TB for steaming, but considering pure TB for an upgrade) TB vs boiler price difference is probably close to none, but if there is greater demand for boilers, unit price is, at the end, a bit lower Ascaso has absolutely no reason to produce boilers - there are myriads of boiler machine producers.
@hazemelkady908711 ай бұрын
Well, considering the fact that this machine has pid, 9 barr bump, preinfusion, semi automatic mode nd a pressure gauge is it better than the Gaggia classic pro?
@tulenik715 ай бұрын
of course it is you forgot uninterrupted steam/hot water delivery and possibility to set up OPV without PID you can forget about light roasts (a BIG problem for GCP)
@ugliestbread11 ай бұрын
It's interesting that I see certain HX machines such as the MaraX get absolutely slated for not being able to slap out 4 drinks at the exact same temperatures, yet the Uno can't even seem to keep a consistent temperature throughout one shot yet I've never seen anyone talk negatively about it. Thank you for the review!
@tulenik715 ай бұрын
measurement methodology here is totally flawed, in fact Uno is pretty good in holding the temperature
@rod_r11 ай бұрын
I owned a thermoblock Bambino Plus and was not convinced it ever got a hot enough. Not a fan.
@dekdelacruz7 ай бұрын
I like your review format and comment
@Vortex198811 ай бұрын
The features this has doesn't justify it's price when you can get a Gaggia Classic Pro for a third of the price. Sure, you don't get automatic pre-infusion, but is that really worth 3 times the price?
@tulenik715 ай бұрын
you don't get a preinfusion nor any temperature control, no OPV setting, no hot water delivery, small boiler and that's all it is a bit too expensive but it is energy efficient, so those money will pay back
@house985011 ай бұрын
small baskets would be a deal breaker for me. I like the boxy look, but I have a Rancilio Silvia Pro X which looks similar. The slanted top is also a deal breaker, wasted space. I put all kinds of stuff on top of my machine while brewing shots, specifically warming my cups while heating up the boiler. It looks good just not practical for every day use. You'll never be able to make a quad shot latte at the right temps.
@FilipLaurentiu5 ай бұрын
So.. what's the point of buying this expensive machine when you can buy something like profitec go, lelit 91t etc. The warmup time for a small single boiler machine is 10 minutes...very close to this one. They have almost the same functionalities at a half price
@TheMartinChnnl11 ай бұрын
Considering it's more expensive than the Mara X, I think you get way much more bang for the buck with the Mara X.
@andrewdang41997 ай бұрын
It's more expensive by $25 which isn't a lot. What do you mean by way more bang for the buck? Aren't they practically the same minus the heating types meaning Dual Thermoblock (Ascaso) vs Dual Boiler?
@wakeawaken43011 ай бұрын
One time "single choice" for economic grinder, but now left behind in every perspect No way a machine like that will ever be in today's market, the dream machine of a coffee enthusiast There are so many other choices from Rancilio, Lelit for example My opinion is that the engineers must design machines, not the marketing managers
@jawn_108611 ай бұрын
Can u pls review the ascaso baby 2
@BenLiftsStuff11 ай бұрын
Nice review. I was in the market for a machine recently and seriously considered an Ascaso Steel Duo PID, so I was interested to see this. For me I decided I didn't want another thermoblock (I had a Breville Barista Pro previously) - I feel like they are a great option in entry level machines but when you start getting into this price point the target market maybe trends towards more serious coffee drinkers where the shortcomings might be an issue. Fast warmup is the biggest selling point, but I wouldn't forgo better temperature control, stronger steam and consistent 18g shots just for that.
@bjfeerus11 ай бұрын
☕☕☕ Love Is Important ❤️ ...
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Indeed it is!
@jeremiasbarillas288911 ай бұрын
I have the Ascaso uno no PID and once fully warmed up, the thermometer stays at 125c. This is way too hot, anyone else having the same problem? Or know how to fix
@edipisreks553511 ай бұрын
A lot of money for something that can’t brew 18gram of light roast and takes two minutes (talk about a “dead shot!”) to steam milk after pulling.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Personally I don’t believe in the “dead shot” program, actually did a relatively popular video about they awhile back, but that workflow can definitely deter folks. And yeah, the price point can be a bit stiff considering the competition in that range.
@edipisreks553511 ай бұрын
If nothing else, the shot is colder after two minutes of sitting there.
@mischugo7 ай бұрын
Is it the Dream PID with a new dress ? ;-)
@TomJones-tx7pb11 ай бұрын
Looks functionally like some lower end DeLonghi or Breville machine. Thermoblock and impulse pump. I have personally found such machines messy, fiddly, and incapable of letting me make coffee as good as an average cafe. Not only the temperature issues in this video, but also how an impulse pump loses flow/cycle at higher pressures. The Decent machine uses the same technologies and gets around the limitations. It runs the thermoblock hot and mixes cold water to gain control over the temperature. It monitors the pressure and flow rate and changes the duty cycle of the pump to gain control over the pressure/flow rate curve of the pump.
@ShayanGivehchian11 ай бұрын
Doesnt seem double the price of a breville or a مدد gcp
@user-wu8zz8kf6x11 ай бұрын
Which scale are you using?
@joey.frank111 ай бұрын
Curious about this too
@joey.frank111 ай бұрын
Little digging looks to be the “pro” version of the search pean/kc200 scale. I have the non pro…they’re alright. This one is just a metal version of the standard one it looks like
@user-wu8zz8kf6x11 ай бұрын
@@joey.frank1 Thanks!
@JusBThankful11 ай бұрын
Ascaso used to have a ton of reliability issues. This thing always looked cheap to me, and I suspect they aren't much to write home about.
@Phil_OG10 ай бұрын
Honestly... your temperature testing made me unsubscribe. Just putting a standard thermometer in there to measure the temperature of a blank shot with no resistance shows that you have no clue how this machine works. I do believe you that your shots were sour and maybe really because of bad temperature stability. But your claims based on your "testing" that it's a general issue with this model doesn't seam to do justice to this machine and thermocoils in general. Maybe your machine was faulty or other unknown issues. You should really get a scace device instead of making such bold claims with unscientific testing due to lack of understanding.
@abdu198911 ай бұрын
Discuss the no tamp espresso short please 🙏🏼
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Why? It’s like a two year old short? What needs to be discussed? I didn’t use a tamper, I pulled a shot and somehow it got 12 million views.
@barjee896511 ай бұрын
$1400 for a thermoblock!? Jeez, no amount of preinusuion or programmable shot times can justify that price imo
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Yeah that’s an interesting point, I mean, it’s definitely feature dense, but the thermoblock is more or less a budget friendly option, and it seems like most of the options with it are under $1k.
@CaldwellCoffee11 ай бұрын
Wait until you find out what the decent espresso machine uses 😅
@3ede46711 ай бұрын
I really dislike the design of this machine. Arranging an even number of knobs makes the whole thing look choppy.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
Hahaha I thought I was picky!
@koxx_hun11 ай бұрын
The worst machine I've ever tried and used, but looks nice.
@Sprometheus11 ай бұрын
It definitely excels in aesthetics, but I think it performs pretty well within its somewhat strict design guidelines.