The Council of Elrond & The One Ring | The Red Book | Episode 7
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Күн бұрынThe Red Book Podcast ran for 12 episodes. This is the seventh episode. In The Lord of the Rings, the decision to attempt a journey to Mount Doom in order to destroy the One Ring of Sauron did not come easily. Many options are discussed during The Council of Elrond. In this episode, I explore the suggestions made by various members, the problems with each, and why the most difficult decision the Council made was also the right one.
► Chapters:
0:00 - The Red Book Podcast Introduction
0:58 - The Council of Elrond & The One Ring
2:31 - Tom Bombadil - The Unsafe Guardian
8:19 - Guarding the One Ring
10:31 - Dropping the One Ring in the Great Sea
15:24 - Interlude
15:53 - Dropping the One Ring in the Great Sea (Continued)
17:30 - Bringing the One Ring to Valinor
23:08 - Using the One Ring against Sauron
26:40 - Using the Three Rings against Sauron
28:39 - Destroying the One Ring
30:19 - The Right Choice...
31:15 - The Red Book Podcast Outro
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► Thumbnail art :
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► Disclaimer:
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#tolkien #onering #sauron #lotr #legendarium
@steelshepherd6843 Жыл бұрын
Crazy this channel hasn't exploded in viewers. Excellent quality, sound, visuals, and analysis.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
I have my moments in September each year for some reason but yeah still a pretty tiny channel. I'd love for it to eventually reach 100k subscribers but that will probably take many years!
@adamloverin231 Жыл бұрын
Serious. I’ve been through several. This one has been on point.
@triple-a6399 Жыл бұрын
I have been subbed to many lotr channels over the years. Now i mostly only watch/listen to TolkienLore and TheRedBook. This is the best channel. Amazing overall quality. And i love the soundbytes from tokybook.
@kryoboy2.074 Жыл бұрын
@@TheRedBook merry Christmas from that guy in whitfield😉😂👍🍻🌲🎅
@LordBalin Жыл бұрын
It will get more viewers. Just got to keep liking the videos and keep making comments.
@beegfeeg4473 Жыл бұрын
I really like how Fellowship of the Ring before the Council of Elrond Chapter feels very contained and quaint, due to it all being through the eyes of the Hobbits. Once they reach the council, however, the world of Middle Earth opens up completely, and shows the weight and power the Ring truly holds over all of Middle Earth. It’s almost overbearing how much is put on the reader to realize the desperation of the situation entails, which is no doubt exactly how Frodo and the other Hobbits felt hearing all this information. I think it’s very clever writing on Tolkien’s part to make the reader just as naive as the Hobbits are to the greater scale of the world around them.
@gib59er56 Жыл бұрын
beegfeeg, I have been reading Tolkien since 5th grade when I got " The Hobbit " as a gift for Christmas or my birthday in 1977. I loved it and was hooked. Next wasLotR in Jr. H.S. and the Silmarillion in H.S. , then everything Christopher published thru the 90`s on the 12 book history of Middle Earth and all I could get my hands on. Your comment was great! I never looked at it in the way you described before. Of course I saw the story building up and new characters introduced, but you make a very good point. And, in truth Pippen does not really understand everything even when he and Gandalf reach Minas Tirith. Gandalf warns him not to mention Frodo or Aragorn to Denethor. Pippin asks him "whats wrong with ol` Strider"? And Gandalf tells him "if you have come all this way with your eyes and ears closed then wake up now!!" So, yes , until they make it to Rivendell they are still very isolated and know nothing other than the Shire and really do not want to know. They want to go home. They were only asked to get the Ring to Rivendell and no more than that. But the Council has torn the safety blanket off of them and they begin to understand the power and evil of the One Ring. Frodo at least understands his fate is bound with the fate of the Ring and the quest to destroy it. He does not want it at all, but he is wise enough to see the peril of the world is within this task.
@Tubesmaney Ай бұрын
Well said - and I remember realizing this when I first read the books. Suddenly Middle Earth becomes a big, complex place full of other peoples and kingdoms and plans.
@rasmus44 Жыл бұрын
It's so calming to just sit back and listen to these videos, they never fail to make me immersed in Tolkien's world. Thank you for making them!
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
I put myself to sleep sometimes :D
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Quite possibly the last video from the channel in 2022 but I have plenty of ideas lined up going forward. Thanks to all who have supported the channel this year! You can find the Podcast on Spotify at (open.spotify.com/episode/3hLnlP7uFGWsZrqWD4bmGi?si=b4605e0964cb4822) Or you can find it on other platforms at (anchor.fm/red-book) You can get early access to Podcast episodes and videos by joining Patreon (patreon.com/theredbook) or checking out KZfaq membership on my homepage.
@MistaGify Жыл бұрын
A pleasure to hear from you again, especially on your favorite chapter! I already knew why the Council dismissed all other options, but it was nice how you articulated exactly why taking The One Ring into Valinor was not an option: it was Middle-Earth’s problem, for better or worst. As for those damned Eagles, Peter Jackson was actually asked about that scenario for the behind-the-scenes footage. The guy he was with shouted, “The Nazgûl on their Fell Beasts would have stopped them! Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?!” Between said Nazgûl and Orc archers and Sauron’s own will, it’s not hard to see why the Eagles were a bad idea…
@gunders85 Жыл бұрын
2022 was a free trial but i decided this is content worth paying for 😊 Have a happy christmas and new year. Looking forward to 2023
@bobsingh7949 11 ай бұрын
The Council of Elrond is an obviously important and juicy point in the great tale. No adaptation has done it justice which just leaves room for future creations. Imagining who Frodo is seated with on this day, and what and where his journey has led him to is wonderful to imagine. Elrond is a great lord. I have wisdom when it comes to this great work of the Great Tolkien but you moved me greatly by your efforts/commentary. I was paused as I journeyed by your words. It was emotional. How dutiful are the Valar. The grief they have suffered in caring for Arda and its inhabitants. Yet, Men and others, still figure deeply in their thoughts and are not forgotten. Thank you for your work. Regards from Western Canada. If you find yourself in Alberta, have some beers on me. We have some landscapes here that are worthy of LOTR.
@annamnatsakanyan4040 Жыл бұрын
Gandalf's quote from "The Steward and the King" and your interpretation of it just nail down the point. Great video as always!
@joehebert789 Жыл бұрын
I am in agreement that this is the best chapter of LOTR. Thanks for sharing some of your thoughts on it.
@alexshadowfax1119 Жыл бұрын
My favorite section of the Lord of the Rings has always been the beginning of the book through the council of Elrond chapter. It sets everything up perfectly and beautifully for the rest of the story to unfold. Wonderfully presented podcast by the way.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
The part that quite a few seem to think is boring. I love all that build up.
@CertifiedFreshMemes Жыл бұрын
Your channel does everything right when it comes to presentation. It looks perfect and sounds perfrct. I often put on your videos on while getting ready for sleeping. I have ADHD and I'll stay awake all night if I have nothing to listen to while falling asleep. Your videos are so damn interesting I can zone out on them and beat those sleepless nights. Still pretty sure I've watched every video on your channel at least twice. Thanks again for being the most interesting Tolkien channel!
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the comment :) and it's nice that my videos can put people to sleep but NOT because they are boring haha.
@daniellefaure9817 11 ай бұрын
@@TheRedBook I'm French and I don't really understand and write English well. But there is translation in french so I can read the commentaries. And I think that they are the most clever I found. So I suppose that your explanations in the vidéos are very clever, the most clever than I have found in french and in English. I see your vidéos after reading the french translation of the commentaries and I can understand them and look your videos after. I thank for your explanations. Sorry for my bad English. And thank you for the qualiti of your work.
@benbrown8258 Жыл бұрын
This is one channel I would have no problems telling my friends about. Having said that I think I should be telling my friends about that that will be my new year resolution. I will try to introduce at least 15 friends to this channel
@AlexSmith-mj8yd Жыл бұрын
I find this channel 2 months ago and it is hands down the best loTR channel on KZfaq or podcasts!
@wavesailor19 Жыл бұрын
This too was my favorite chapter. Throughly enjoyed the smart analysis while walking down The COE memory lane. Thank you.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Most welcome :D thanks for your support this year!
@Tubesmaney Ай бұрын
Freaking well done on an analysis of a fascinating subject. I've often pondered all the choices they were faced with at the Council of Elrond. I still remember the first time reading the books and thinking that poor Frodo's job would be done once he got to Imladris and could pass the Ring to others who were more powerful than he.
@AS-fu1kd Жыл бұрын
Very excited to be just finding this channel
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Happy to have you here :)
@DueIistGio Жыл бұрын
what fortune! literally just finished this chapter on my first actual readthrough of Lord of the Rings
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
What did you think of the chapter? Always interested in first-time thoughts on a chapter like this one.
@DueIistGio Жыл бұрын
@@TheRedBook like the other chapters leading up to this I’m constantly amazed at how much was left out or changed for the sake of story in the film adaptations, as they’ve been my only knowledge of the universe it’s been like learning an entirely different story, loving the back and forth between Elrond and the council of should we hide it or give it to Tom. Let alone what even is bombadil
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
Hang in there! Keep reading!👍
@bobsingh7949 10 ай бұрын
I loved that - "frightening patience." Lucky they had Gandalf. That motherf****** is the sterness. The focus of this legendary dude. The focus he had over swathes of time without permanent abode. Not building power or defense, just serving, listening, befriending. Hoooyahhh! Gandalf!!!! Man!!!
@andyparsons608 Жыл бұрын
Such a good chanel, I have no idea why it took me so long to subscribe. I've been a Tolkien fan for 30+ years and enjoyed many of his weightings. Gg keep up the good work.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Happy you have found the channel, thanks!
@gmanjames1465 Жыл бұрын
This is such a good channel. Cannot believe the quality
@An-Ma Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your videos, Red Book, I love all of them. I love this one already, even if i haven’t watched it yet. It’s one of my favorite chapters! 👍🌷🌷👋
@mosesgunn6937 Жыл бұрын
The depth of your understanding of the lore is unmatched.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Thank you Moses, nice to see you on here :D
@piotrh2641 Жыл бұрын
First of all let me say that this channel is by far the one most in tune with the depth and breadth of Professor Tolkien's sophistication of thought and attention to detail so prevalent in his works, as compared to other channels on KZfaq (of which there are several of excellent quality already). Great work, and here's hoping for an explosion of popularity to your channel! I have a question/subject related to the One Ring, which has been on my thoughts for a while. Do you think there was any being in Middle Earth who would be able to throw the One Ring into the fires of Mount Doom of their own will? Some say that Elendil would do it, others that perhaps Elrond or Cirdan, but they didn't wish to cause strife with Isildur when he claimed the Ring. Much is said about the failure of first Isildur and later Frodo. However, I do not see failure there, in either case. In my reading of the text, it seems to me that no human, hobbit, dwarf of elf (or even Maia) would be able to destroy the Ring willingly. The being in question would have to possess a willpower stronger than Sauron himself, and no one in the Third age was capable of that, perhaps not even Gandalf returned. Tom Bombadil is probably out of the equation, well, because he is Tom! Please let me know your thoughts on this matter.
@nmorts9928 Жыл бұрын
Your work is fantastic. Has made my week.
@WhoIsCalli Ай бұрын
Absolutely loved this. Great analysis. Thanks 🧝♂️
@joseraulcapablanca8564 Жыл бұрын
This was as ever good stuff. Thank you for all you have done for fans this year. keep up the good work next year. All the best for christmas and the new year.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Hope it's a good one for you and I have many good ideas for videos in 2023!
@Callisto_Arcas Жыл бұрын
Having seen this in early access, it was so good that I had to listen again when it went public. As always, I become totally immersed in the Legendarium during your videos & podcasts, even in multiple viewings. Thank you for the work (and love) you put into these analyses. The Manwe Eagle Taxi Service makes me laugh every time I hear it. 🤣 I love it!
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the support, as always! And I may have to call my inevitable future Eagles video the Manwe Eagle Taxi Service now :D
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
Steven, thank you for a full year of joy listening to your videos and podcasts. I feel like I have become more knowledgeable about the lore and more sceptical about other KZfaqrs' views of the themes that you cover. Keep up the great work! Have a happy New Year and I hope you get some days off from work so you can relax.
@allukadesu2048 Жыл бұрын
I am sitting enjoying this analysis and videos. Thank you very much
@shinestar2912 Жыл бұрын
The council of Elrond is the correct way to do and exposition scene.
@franciscordon9230 Жыл бұрын
Excellent content an excellent production. Thank you.
@namomandos1918 Жыл бұрын
Great video about one of the best chapters in the Lord of the Rings!
@docopoper Жыл бұрын
Love these videos. I don't feel like I have much to add or question in a comment on topics like this. But I still very much enjoy your videos and podcasts.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Always like hearing that enjoyed the content, so don't worry about having nothing to add :D
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
Yes, Steven is meticulous and highly knowledgeable. Plus ha has a very cool accent.
@rafaelgustavo7786 Жыл бұрын
Suggestion for an upcoming video: Tolkien's mythological inspirations for creating his Legendarium. An analysis of Tolkien's mythos, and European mythologies: Celtic, Germanic/Scandinavian, Finnish, as well as Judeo-Christian, etc.
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
That looks more like a 5-6 video series, but it would be appreciated by all Steven's subs
@ThunderhawkVeronicaLazerwolf Жыл бұрын
Your story telling is so fun!! Thanks!f
@user-sd7ri9fy4i 9 ай бұрын
Nice work dude
@thestraightroad305 Жыл бұрын
What a day! I just got my copy of Following Gandalf in the mail and now the best Tolkien channel with the most important chapter analysis! Now settling down by the fire with a refreshment to listen. Pure contentment.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
The very best chapter in my opinion too :D even just reading it on its own. I hope you enjoyed this analysis :)
@thestraightroad305 Жыл бұрын
@@TheRedBook I hope you have read Following Gandalf, Red Book. If not, please consider it! It is well worth the read. Cheers! And I wish you a very happy Christmas. See you in the New Year. Edit: and yes, I thoroughly enjoyed your commentary. As always. I’m looking forward as well to more on Faramir. The power of compassion and humility.
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
What was the Refreshment? 🍷☕🍵🍺🥂🍸🍹🍶🥃 None of them?
@thestraightroad305 Жыл бұрын
@@Enerdhil oh haha a couple of Capuccini!
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
@@thestraightroad305 Excellent choices.👍
@cherub3624 Жыл бұрын
One option I did notice was not discussed or even considered was diplomacy with Sauron. While Sauron may have considered it beneath him to compromise with the White Council, he was seemingly open to discussion in terms of some diplomacy, such as when he sent a representative to the lonely mountain. Perhaps not the most realistic solution to the main problem facing middle earth, but it is still surprising that someone there did not suggest trying to use the ring as leverage in a non-militaristic way. Its essentially a very powerful hostage - one that can't be destroyed obviously, but still. One could imagine the idea being proposed. Though I suppose the end result would have eventually boiled down to the same as the others.
@TheRedBook Ай бұрын
An interesting idea but there are many faults with this approach. A big one is that all negotiations for Sauron would be a return of the One Ring to him. Even if Middle-earth bargained for something, Sauron could easily back out of it or (even if he honoured an agreement) he would still be a tyrant over the world. If the negotiations were to hold the ring from him and tell him to behave himself, he'd just continue his militaristic assault anyway, eventually believing one of the people holding the ring would make a claim for it as some point. Sauron would negotiate but always for his benefit. He will let a Lord stay in place but under him. He will let a land remain as it is but under the dominion of Mordor whenever it wants to use it for any purpose. No negotiation would ever have you free from Sauron. He just won't kill you. "I'll stop the war if you give up", basically.
@JoeBlow-fp5ng 4 ай бұрын
Good one.
@hazbojangles2681 Жыл бұрын
Comes in at a perfect time as I only just managed to make time to watch the most recent video. Great video as always. I actually haven't read the Lord of the Rings in several years. I think it is time to read it once again. I also wondered if you would ever make a video on The Lost Road? I understand if you won't as it is not really contain anything that your channel discusses. A lot of people may have read that section located in The Fall of Númenor and not understood it.
@sainiharika Жыл бұрын
This is the most spiritual analysis n channel
@shanenolan5625 Жыл бұрын
Cheers. Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you ,your family and subscribers ,
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
And to you too Shane, have a good one :)
@mcintma2 Жыл бұрын
Some of your best work! Very well spoken. I would add that the Rings were the sin of the elves (trying to create paradise, aka Valinor, on earth) - and that is another reason the 'Ring problem' was not going to be dealt with by the Valar handwaving it away. You can even trace this sin of the Rings of Power back to the Oath of Feanor - for it was the Noldor (and of course Feanor's direct descendant Celebrimbor) that fell into Sauron's trap.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I've had a few comments asking about the ring being "of Middle-earth" and I wish I spent a little bit of time talking about what you've mentioned. The rings themselves between products of Middle-earth and no Valinor. There's always something I wish I expanded upon...
@johnfleet235 Жыл бұрын
M you make a great point. But was it really Sauron's trap or was it Eru's trap? In my view, the Rings of Power are a failure. Elves took their off, the dwarves could not be controlled by the rings and the Nazgul seem almost too terrible to be useful.
@mcintma2 Жыл бұрын
@@johnfleet235 That's certainly open to interpretation - at story's end we know the Ring was a failure for Sauron. Had it not been destroyed, one can envision it being a great success, allowing total rule over Middle Earth for an Age or more (who knows?)
@lordofthehouseofstormcrows8615 Жыл бұрын
Well met Mellon! Keep up the great work. May the Valar Manwe bless you this Yule! Happy Tidings all around in House Storm Crow territory(it is not much, but it is mine) ECTHELION Ps. Tommy B would've got my vote. Alas, he cannot do it .
@LuisAlbright Жыл бұрын
Brilliant, enlightening, and instructive as usual.
@yehoshua8160 Жыл бұрын
I know it's a bit of a non sequitur but you've really made me realize just how much the adaptations coloured my thoughts on Tolkien's works, and for some reason it really didn't click until you called the eagles "Manwe's Taxi Service"
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
i think that's the case for many many people. A lot of people were introduced to Tolkien through those movies.
@psazani Жыл бұрын
Considering the wisest and most powerful in Middle Earth at that time (except Galadriel) were at the council of Elrond, the miracle of that meeting isn't that Frodo agreed to take the ring. The miracle is that none of those powerful were tempted to claim the one ring that stood right in front of them. One could argue that the side of good won right then and there, without a massacre at Rivendell.
@Callisto_Arcas Жыл бұрын
Great point!
@piotrh2641 Жыл бұрын
One more question popped into my mind recently: do you think Gandalf could see Bilbo when he was wearing the One Ring? With him being a Maia and at least partly in the invisible world himself that would seem to be the case. He did witness Bilbo putting on the Ring on at least one occasion, but we don't know whether he saw the invisible Bilbo or not when that happened. And if Gandalf did see Bilbo - shouldn't that be a red flag all over for him, when he noticed Bilbo "shifting" to the unseen world? On that note - would High Elves be able to see Bilbo/Frodo wearing the Ring? We know that Wood Elves certainly didn't.
@cavetroll666 Жыл бұрын
what are the were worms of the far east that bilbo refers to in the hobbit is what keeps me up at night 😂
@BenFrayle Жыл бұрын
And what about one of Bilbo's ancestors having taken a Fairy wife?
@nickolas.vicente Жыл бұрын
@@BenFrayle I'd look at that as an evolution of Tolkien's stories. Gwendeling was a fay, and elves was synonymous with fairies.
@BenFrayle Жыл бұрын
@@nickolas.vicente Yes, it was a hobbit word for elves way back when.
@davidmiddleton7958 8 ай бұрын
A disturbing thought came to me while listening to this video. Rivendel facing Sauron, the Nazghul & Durin's Bane! Scary!
@RoninDave Жыл бұрын
One thing (amongst many) that I disliked about Rings of Power was having Elrond and Galadriel present at the forging of the 3 Elven Rings. A crucial storytelling element was the shadow of doubt that hung over the Council of Elrond and the whole Ring Quest. No one was exactly sure what they were dealing with hence the several different suggestions. Going to Mordor to unmake the Ring only emerged as the best course not as a forgone conclusion. This is because no one at the Council had a part in the making of the Elven Rings. Elrond wasn't sure what would happened to the 3 given they were never touched or sullied by Sauron (something they again ruined in ROP). Those involved in the forging of the Rings had all perished a long time ago so there was no one at the Council to give them more insight into the nature of the Rings or possibly the One Ring that was tied up with them. Galadriel knew what would happened to the 3 but this had more to do with her power of sight and searching Sauron's mind than personal knowledge of the Ring forging themselves. That's what made the quest all the more brave for those on it because they moving forward into uncertainty hoping that they were on the right track.
@TarMody Жыл бұрын
The Valar technically have the power to destroy the One Ring, but the point being overlooked here is that the One Ring contains more than just an object, a piece of Sauron's soul. The Valar have no permission or authority to destroy any being that has "free will" (created from the Secret Fire). Otherwise it would be clearly against Eru's will that when Ar-Pharazôn and his army set foot on Aman they did not intervene and consulted with Eru. I think this also applies to the One Ring. Perhaps this is why Gandalf thought that the One Ring would not be accepted by the Valar.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
I don't think it was overlooked. I said: "If the Valar could and were willing to defeat Sauron this way, then surely they would have dealt with him on personal terms already, through force. They didn’t , leading me to claim that they would ---> not choose to diminish Sauron’s spirit by destroying the One Ring. "
@christianefiorito3204 Жыл бұрын
I love your videos
@kirandeepchakraborty7921 Жыл бұрын
Happy New Year 2023
@davidhunter1555 Жыл бұрын
I've always thought that if Elrond, of all people, describes Bombadil simply as a "strange creature" it's not worth troubling too much over trying to understand him/it. I realize the draw of the mystery but I can only throw my hands up at the decades of conjecture and let it be.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
I agree. I don't care much for who or what Tom is. He is just Tom. I like thinking about his place in the story though, his role, especially compared with earlier versions of the Legendarium with the presence of forest spirits, etc. I like those discussions. But the "Theories about Tom Bombadil" videos are lame and don't interest me.
@MrBernardthecow Жыл бұрын
No mention of Goldberry. I always the opinion that it was Goldberry who kept Tom on track on most things. He would always return to her and gave him direction. Would there have been direction of Tom in regards to The Ring. Probably not but strange the chapter doesn't involve her.
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
It's a good point. If Goldberry were a Maia, she could be corrupted by the Ring if Tom had it.
@anchuisneoir3973 Жыл бұрын
Great stuff. I'd be very interested in a video about Bombadil. I actually find the idea that he has so many different names among different folk more interesting than who he really is (obviously this is still extremely interesting). What had he done to earn such fame? Was he known to the Dwarves of Nogrod and Belegost or those of Khazad Dum? Which Northern Men knew him as Orald and did he have a different name amongst other Men?
@artemismoonbow2475 Жыл бұрын
Taking the ring back to the Valar to solve the issue of Power and how to live free of corruption is like running back to a parent as an adult. If it is a brief respite to refit, it can be helpful, but it can infantilize or worse, create the illusion that they still have the power to solve contemporary problems. This metaphor externalizes what Tolkien mean by saying he does mythology and not allegory. The whole legendarium can be seen as the eras and cycles within our own life. A primordial age prior to cognition, a first age of growth, a long second age of maintenance, and a third age of long decline. In every stage is moral choice and a legion of strife and conflict. May we all have that final victory at Doom.
@miashinbrot8388 Жыл бұрын
One thing the Council did not discuss is whether the Ring could be destroyed by throwing it into some other volcano than Mount Doom. Gandalf said it could only be destroyed by throwing it into the place it was made, but I don't recall him saying why.
@o_LL_o Жыл бұрын
If you are standing in the Timeless Halls with new immortality & purpose beyond any corruption and possibility of evil and it was always meant to be that way, there is no need to justify allowing Sauron or anything to cause you misery and death. The misery is forgotten and the death wasn't actually true.
@pCeLobster Жыл бұрын
I wonder if, with enough time, Sauron would have eventually gained enough new power that destroying the Ring would not have defeated him so completely.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
New power from where? Most of his power was in the One Ring. If it was bent to another or destroyed, he would not have the power left to even take shape again.
@LifeofHum 2 ай бұрын
Please come back and make a few new videos exploring philosophical aspects of Tolkien's work. I have watched and rewatched all the videos many times 😢
@DavidMacDowellBlue Жыл бұрын
I've been telling people for years why they couldn't use the Eagles!
@weststaf673 Жыл бұрын
Would love for there to be a parallell story to read where a different choice regarding the ring was made: Gandalf, Galadriel or even Saruman wields it. I understand the point that Tolkien is making with regards to power, but it still feels like a somehwat unsatisfactory ending, in that the things we love most of Middle earth will fade away: elves, rings, magic, mystery... Yes even the conflict between pure evil and pure good will get diluted in a world dominated by men. Imagine a fourth age where the rings keep their power, and Sauron is battling an equally powerful opponent who wields his ring against him. So many fascinating stories almost write themselves in that scenario.
@maxvaneck1638 Жыл бұрын
i think orome represents not abiding evil or letting it go unpunished and never to ignore it
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
I agree
@specialnewb9821 8 ай бұрын
Remember, it's Gandalf's job to get the Free Peoples to deal with the Ring themselves. So he definitely has an interest in pointing to them to idea of destroying it themselves. I'm not saying anything he said was untrue, this is something I think is one of those "reader applicable" things as opposed to "allegorical author" things. But I sometimes wonder if he might have been mistaken in shooting down alternatives. Especially as the Grey he is not perfect and has his own assumptions just like anyone else in human flesh would.
@starrshamek5449 Жыл бұрын
I was wondering if you could do a video about Gollum!
@rotwang2000 Жыл бұрын
I'm always baffled by the idea that who or what Bombadil actually is somehow must have an answer, that it is hidden somewhere in a margin of some note. Does it matter that much to figure out what Tom is meant to be rather than accept he is simply Tom Bombadil ?
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
A lot of people care about it but they also hate mysteries and want everything categorised and placed in a box. I'm not really like that. As I said in another comment, I like talking about Tom's role in the Legendarium, his place in the story - far more interesting than theories about if he's race A, B, or C.
@BenFrayle Жыл бұрын
@@TheRedBook "Whatever happened to playing a hunch, Scully? The element of surprise, random acts of unpredictability? If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."
@Yesica1993 Жыл бұрын
@@BenFrayle YAY, MULDER!
@rotwang2000 Жыл бұрын
@@TheRedBook It feels like a modern problem to me. Look at how lots of writers and movie makers add some big secret in their story and make the reveal some kind of significant moment. In a world where most people no longer react to story itself, but to the clearly enunciated story beats, when to be sad, when to be angry, when to go out of your mind when the beat occurs. Tolkien never intended this kind of storytelling, he a mythmaker, writing in an archaic style halfway between traditional mythology and fairytales. Untold ancient stories have Tom Bombadil characters with no background information that have special abilities and power and they occur in anything from Gilgamesh all the way to Le Morte D'Arthur or most of the folk tales Perrault and the Grimm brothers so carefully collected. And if we do deconstruct him, he's basically an element from part of his mythologies that he transposed into Middle Earth. Just like he added links to the Hobbit and extended them in Lord of the Rings to make them fit in with the Silmarillion. We tend to forget that Tolkien never quite set out to write the A-Z of Middle Earth history in itself, he focused on individual tales and stories and only gradually and partially integrated them with each other. Tom Bombadil is a relic from an earlier concept where it was more a follow up to the Hobbit, than a great epic tale. How well it integrates into the story is a far more interesting debate than trying to put a pin through Tom, put him into a box with the proper label for those who love to see everything in their box with the proper label ...
@CanalTremocos Жыл бұрын
If the Ring has no power over Tom Bombadil can he cut it? What happens if only half the ring is destroyed in mount doom?
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
No because Tom has no power over the ring. He can't harm it but it basically can't hurt him either. I don't think half of it can be destroyed. I'd guess as soon as it begins to be destroyed, there's no going back for it. It's broken.
@rrgale55 9 ай бұрын
I welcome all input and opinions. This video talks about the ring being the burden of middle earth. So I'm left to ask. Why was it ok for the valar to interfere when it came to Melkor? Why was it ok for men to join with Elves during the last alliance of Elves and men? Twice, the Elves were aided. Why do men have to prove their dominance by themselves? Sure, one could say that isuldor could have destroyed the one ring. But then again, was it not celebrimbors fault for aiding in the creation of the rings in the first place? I'd like to see a what-if video on What if the Elves of the undying lands chose to sail east to help their brothers (the second born men) in their plight against sauron.
@darthgorthaur258 Жыл бұрын
That line always got me "last as he was first" there be so much h discussion about what him being first means an generally people agree with means before even Mellor entered the world but for him to be last then he moat have the power to hold of sauron till all his army's an himself is dead making him the final one to leave.? Any ideas ?
@catherinewhite2943 Жыл бұрын
This is my favorite chapter as well. It's one that could bring about many multi-hour discussions. As I was listening, I found myself wondering if Tolkien saw a ring-equivalent in this world. We have in Middle Earth equivalents for God, angels, devils, evil spirits, the Fall/Rebellion against God, and more. For what is the Ring an analogue? Or is there not one? I will definitely have to ponder this.
@glennr2358 Жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly.
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
Tolkien hated allegory in ALL its forms.
@br3030 Жыл бұрын
is there any interesting thoughts about gandalf wielding the ring as white compared to grey?
@25gramsofbluesky33 Жыл бұрын
I used to think Tom might be Eru IIuvatar in disguise. I was kind of disappointed to find out in adulthood that was not the case. Im cool with it either way.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Still a popular theory but as you say, it's not the case. I like the enigmatic nature of Tom :)
@nickolas.vicente Жыл бұрын
I don't think Bombadil has to be a literal physical embodiment of Ilúvatar, which is what has been disclaimed, in order to be some kind of direct essence of Him. When reading the Ainulindalë, I always stop at the word 'echo' when Ilúvatar makes the final chord. Bombadil is always singing, it makes sense for him to be the echo.
@douglashubbard7484 10 ай бұрын
I get that Mt. Doom was chosen as being as a hot enough, and also the nearest place, to destroy the ring. But, would any volcano do? If yes, would there be a volcano more accessible?
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
I guess the only other option would be a suicide trip to visit the Dragons out East.🤔 Assuming you could find them before Sauron and his men found you. Also assuming that Dragon's fire could melt the Ring.
@Davlavi Жыл бұрын
For the algorithm.
@jamief1263 8 ай бұрын
The ring only has power over people, that it can offer something to. The ring can’t offer Tom anything, especially in his land. There are examples of the ring struggling to corrupt certain people, Frodo, Bilbo and Sam, all due to their good nature are able to resist the corruption of the ring for a long time. This is because Hobbits only really want to be able to make things grow. Something that the ring can’t do. I suspect that the smiths of Valinor could have destroyed the ring. I am unsure they would have destroyed it, but it would at least have avoided a war between Valinor and Middle-Earth.
@johnquestel4852 11 ай бұрын
Never did understand why it couldn't be sent to the undying lands on a ship...
@trekstarsam2494 Жыл бұрын
I believe that Valinor would not accept it, it was the last untainted place in Arda. The valar would not have accepted something of that great evil there.
@iarwainthabombadil7724 10 ай бұрын
whered the moss gatherer video go , Mr. Intel?
@rgaleny Жыл бұрын
see the nature of ungoliant. bombadil is her counter part
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Just one of many fan theories
@ellietobe 11 ай бұрын
The hobbits and the human beings would die but Gandalf had already been in Middle Earth for over a generation. He had a much longer lifespan in Middle Earth than anyone other than some of the Elves. It seems that Gandalf wanted to get his job over with so he could go home. I don’t suppose that Gandalf enjoyed being in that old man disguise of his. Probably a few hundred years more was not something he looked forward to. He wanted to get this job over with. Did he at any time believe that the plan would work?
@kirandeepchakraborty7921 Жыл бұрын
A Year Apart.
@pauldavis7146 Жыл бұрын
Should've gone to the sea first. I seriously doubt aulë couldn't unmade that ring.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
He wouldn't unmake it, even if he could.
@michaelhansson1242 Жыл бұрын
It always bugged me that it's the longest chapter in the book but glossed over in the movies
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
I think it's one of the best examples we can use to show the shortcomings of adaptations of such works. The story always has to be pushed forward. More time is spent on a tiny chapter like Helm's Deep because of the action, compared with the likes of the Council of Elrond. Push forward constantly, linger only for a moment. Shows that film can't always do what the books do.
@michaelhansson1242 Жыл бұрын
I agree, the movie somewhat missed the greatness of Tolkien, i rather watch 20 minutes of lore at Elronds council that 20 min of orch bashing at helms deep
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
Too bad PJ did not make a half-hour version of the Council for the extended version. They had no way to know whether people would even be interested in the extended versions until after the filming was completed
@michaelhansson1242 Жыл бұрын
@@Enerdhil i agree it would have been a great opportunity to expand on the lore with flashbacks to the second age and so forth...
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
@@michaelhansson1242 Thank God PJ decided against adding Arwen with the Elves who fought in Helms Deep. So dumb...
@tombombadill22 Жыл бұрын
Gandalf did not appreciate or understand the power of Tom at the time of the Council. He did later on though , after he was brought back as Gandalf the White. He is therefore a spoiler and speaks in error re Tom, based only on supposition and rumour.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
What did he say during the Council that was wrong about Tom?
@bobsingh7949 10 ай бұрын
But why? Why could Tom not defend his land against the full might of Sauron lusting for his Ring? Why?
@MountainFisher Жыл бұрын
I never saw why the Ring belonged to Middle Earth when a Maia from Valinor and Aule's pupil made it. It should be Aule's problem who I don't doubt could destroy the Ring even if he had to take it personally to Mt Doom. Sauron could not stop a Vala.
@BenFrayle Жыл бұрын
The Vala saw it differently. And remember when they had intervened directly on Arda there had always been catastrophic consequences.
@edwardokaa Жыл бұрын
The issue to my mind isn't that the Valar wouldn't take on the task of destroying it, rather that the council couldn't accept the risk that they mightn't. If the Valar refused, they might have destroyed the ship (letting Sauron win by default) or they'd turn the party back, leading us back to square one but with a now much longer and more perilous journey to Mordor.
@BenFrayle Жыл бұрын
@@edwardokaa What you are saying essentially is that the Council should have just prayed for help and hoped for the best.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Aule isn't responsible for Sauron's actions, I don't know why everyone blames him for the choices made by Sauron. Free will is a thing.
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
Eru is obviously not allowing the Valar to get directly involved, so it doesn't matter if Aulë could destroy the Ring or not.
@mrillis9259 Жыл бұрын
I always figured Tom, was the original Dark, Lord.
@mrillis9259 Жыл бұрын
Who says that Sauron, would come for Tom, last? Did I imagine that? May read this again over Christmas.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
Na, Tom speaks of Melkor coming in from the outside while he was already in Middle-earth.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
I quote that in the video, it is from Glorfindel :)
@mrillis9259 Жыл бұрын
@@TheRedBook I always figured oldest an fatherless, met up enough with the Simil, where Morgoth, was first to pass into the new world. Maybe he spoke of himself in the 3rd person. Its tough to say, maybe there is no answer?
@BenFrayle Жыл бұрын
@@mrillis9259 I think this is where they hypothesised what might happen if they gave the Ring to Tom for safekeeping. Sauron would overwhelm the rest of the world and eventually would have to deal with Tom in some manner to reclaim his ring. But that wouldn't be much help to the rest of the peoples of Middle Earth.
@juusovuolle8251 Жыл бұрын
Aulë should maybe take some responsibility that both of his pupils fell to darkness and one of them being Sauron who made the One Ring. I mean it's not that type of a story. And Tolkien really wanted to tell a story about sauron wanting to be worshipped as god king. Which was heretical towards Eru. And that God through means not understood by men organized certain events in the background that eventually lead to the destruction of the forces of evil. After all it would be a different type of a story indeed if the Istari were to travel to the ultimate west and then Aulë would smelt the One Ring.
@TheRedBook Жыл бұрын
You'll like my episode 2 of the Podcast where I say Aulë should not be blamed for the choices of two of his pupils. Hope you can check it out, I go into quite some detail about it.
@Enerdhil Жыл бұрын
Definitely listen to Episode Two of the podcast. I was kind of on the fence in regard to Aulë's culpability in regard to Sauron and Saruman's behavior before I listened to that podcast. Steven is very convincing and he brings the "receipts."
@gmcoates63 9 ай бұрын
It’s a pity that the comments come in mid Word and do not respect the content at all
@TheRedBook 9 ай бұрын
What do you mean?
@UnderhillKoufax Жыл бұрын
No excuses. The Valar and Eru Iluvatar were negligent and even cruel. After all, why create a system that allows millions/billions to suffer, and then do nothing for so long while they suffer? Negligent and cruel.
@anglerfish4161 Жыл бұрын
I mean, you can certainly think that, but somehow I feel like hitting a Catholic writer's mythology with the Problem of Evil stick will make his work more understandable.
@BenFrayle Жыл бұрын
I take it you are in favour of mass euthanasia then? Why allow suffering?
@UnderhillKoufax Жыл бұрын
@@anglerfish4161, I love Tolkien’s mythology, but the logic of the Valar and Eru Iluvatar being all loving and powerful does not hold up to scrutiny.
@BenFrayle Жыл бұрын
@@UnderhillKoufax Who has ever claimed that the Valar and Eru are all loving and all powerful? I think you are projecting your Sunday School fantasies onto a different fantasy world.
@UnderhillKoufax Жыл бұрын
@@BenFrayle. Your logic is backwards. Pointing out the flawed logic of the Valar and Iluvatar creating billions of people and then abandoning them to suffer under Dark Lords is not promoting euthanasia. It is pointing out the hypocrisy and cruelty of the Valar and Iluvatar.
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