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We need a video about “the dumb girl” archetype (aka Karen)

"Why should Caesar just get to stomp around like a giant while the rest of us try not to get smushed under his big feet? Brutus is just as cute as Caesar, right? Brutus is just as smart as Caesar, people totally like Brutus just as much as they like Caesar, and when did it become okay for one person to be the boss of everybody because that's not what Rome is about! We should totally just STAB CAESAR!”

Put your secrets in the replies to make Gretchen’s hair bigger.

I always felt sorry for Gretchen. She always struck me as a sweet, if insecure girl, who desperately wants to be liked, and doesn't know how to function without a leader. Regina, being as savvy as she is, definitely sussed out this mentality, and recruited Gretchen to join her clique, knowing that Gretchen wouldn't deny her anything. 😞 Even though it's played for laughs, it's almost bittersweet when Gretchen joins the Cool Asians at the end, as she desperately needs SOMEONE to tell her what to do. 🤔😢

Except Cher and Dion actually like each other

I was a “Gretchen” when I was younger and it definitely look back at that time and wonder why I put up with so much abuse from my “friends” in order to remain part of a clique. This video helps explain a lot of that perfectly!

The thing that Mean Girls gets so right about high school is that every clique has a queen bee, and people tend to be more mean to their friends than they are to even the outcasts.

Gretchen was such a good character. I’m glad you covered her.

I think she is so insecure that she has to be in a protection of someone relatively powerful to hide her from facing her insecurities

Last time I was this early Regina could sit with us.

Gretchen was number 1 in one thing tho...outfits, she always had the best outfits

in the social hierarchy, Gretchen actually hold more power than she realizes. Without the follower, there can be no leader. And the moment your secret police decides to change their allegiance, is the time you fall as a dictator

Lemme just drop this quote Gretchen said in the musical version: “Sometimes I feel like an iPhone without a case. Like, I know I’m worth a lot, and I have a lot of good functions, but at any time I could just shatter.” :’)

I love how Gretchen's introduction, getting hit in the head with a ball, immediately conveys that she's a sort of a victim and worthy of sympathy. Like, yes, she's accountable for upholding Regina's regime, but I don't remember Gretchen really being mean to anyone.

I just realized that the "Illusion of intimacy" that Regina uses to keep Gretchen close to her, is very similar to how some youtubers refer to their fans "My sisters/family" as example. They make their audience believe that they're really close even tho none of them are from the youtuber close group of friends, yet the viewer feels the need to defend them in case of criticism.

Gretchens also never have their own style or interests or own set of morals. My ex best friend was a follower. She followed me a lot in high school. When she left for college, she found different people to follow, and became really self critical about appearances and money and status, she stopped being interested in math and art and music. It took me awhile to realize “old her” wasn’t her, but her just trying to follow the people around her.

The funny thing is that fetch happened

I felt the most pity for Gretchen in the whole film, I think she was relatable, and my favourite character.

But now we have to get down to the bottom of the real question: is butter a carb?

TBH, Gretchen actually just needed WAY better Friends.

i love the deep analysis of movies that are considered "thrash" or too girly, i've watched almost every video lol

I feel sad for people like Gretchen, you can tell she's so insecure she needs others people's approval.

I wonder why Regina chose Karen into her Plastics clique. She's pretty, but not very observant or intelligent, so Karen's not really a threat to Regina's power over the school. I would really love to see an analysis essay on that

I see Mean Girls, I click immediately!

It is nice to see that Gretchen was able to get a happy ending as seen in the Walmart commercial where she finds purpose in being a mom, plus the fact that her kids seem alright with her eldest not having the follower mentality and instead being a leader in her own right. Also, since her kids are Asian I like to believe that she married a guy from the Cool Asian group, showing that her joining this clique acted as a step in her development.

I’ve noticed that Gretchen is the ‘ethnic’ one in the group. The ethnic one was usually cast as the number 2 in the early 2000s

We need the dumb girl follower next--Karen. I think she also has a beautiful ending realizing her unique talents and passion as weather reporter. Thats an interesting fact as the creative ones in the society. Well we just have a leader, robots and creatives.

“That’s so fetch!” “That’s just, like, the rules of feminism.” “Oh my God, Karen! You can’t just ask people why they’re white!” “He’s your cousin. No, sweetie.” “Maybe we should just all stab Caesar!” “But I’m always on your left.” Is it sad I know those quotes on the fly...

Wow is it just me or are we being blessed with a lot of videos recently?

A suggestion: you could do a playboy trope, I think that would be fun to see

I always found the rigid social hierarchies in teen movies weird as they bore no relation to my own experience of school, so it's even stranger to learn that it was based on actual research. Though I'm in the UK so maybe it's just different over here.

Scrolling through the comments, I was kinda hoping to see a reference to the Gretchen in Mean Girls the Musical - especially the last verses of her song - "What's wrong with me? What can I do? What's wrong with me? COULD IT BE YOU...?? -- ...It's probably me," - that are sung in an increasingly desperate tone. I think it really serves to highlight the lack of self assurance that leads Gretchen to seem herself as nothing more than a follower, even if she knows - in the song, at least - that her relationship with Regina is fundamentally unhealthy for her. But Gretchen can't see herself doing anything more than that, and justifies that by convincing herself that anything bad in her dynamics with Regina is her own fault. Well, at least until the Caesar breakdown, I guess (which is sadly not in the musical). I haven't watched The Devil Wears Prada in a while, but I can totally see future Gretchen becoming an Emily type, willing to go through a horribly unhealthy pattern to earn the acceptance of someone that never will grant it - because what Miranda values in Anne Hathaway's character is precisely her self-assurance - and worse, if a Gretchen type never grows out of the perception that what happens to her is on herself to blame. It is also an open door to any kind of abusive relationship. Anyway, this comment turned out to be way more pessimistic than I expected, but I just wanted to add this little something from the musical's characterization.

Olive in Easy A fits this role until she begins lying about sex

Gretchen is such a great and underrated character. I think she's actually a really nice person who just needed to find her own voice and personality.

It's sad that Gretchen coudn't find a way to express herself in a healthy way when even Regina did

We need a breakdown of “the quirky girl” or “the manic pixie dream girl “ (margo roth spigelmen,summer,jess,clementine) I know a lot of these characters are not mpdg rather they are the breakdown of that cliche but I’m still mentioning their names because I think they might be helpful source for the video..feel free to drop more suggestions

We need a video on the Iconic Queen Bee Blair Waldorf

At 12:13. I love how Gretchen is so desperate to be a follower that she forces herself to learn fluent Vietnamese to serve a new queen bee. Now that is world-class craven subservience! :D

There were so many Gretchen's in the world that it's sad. I had a Gretchen for a roommate and she would always defend a girl who was very cruel and hateful to me, the roommate, and all her friends. She stayed friends with someone who was mean to her and made her miserable. There are way too many trend followers on social media these days. This video was so on point about people like that. It reminded me of that drama in college and it also reminded me of another friend who hung out with a group of friends she didn't really like or fit in with (she would vent to me about the drama and them bullying her) I tried to give her advice and told her to find friends that treat her better, but she stayed in their group. She ended up becoming like them. By the end of the year, she was lying to start drama between people, said hurtful things to me (things her "friends" said to her), and became addicted to drinking. I drink, but she did it so often that her grades slipped and she told me she didn't care. I tried to help her learn to care about her grades, I told her she should find a balance between partying and studying, but she didn't take my advice. It turned out that she told a lot of lies about me behind my back and started a lot of shit. She became very toxic. She's out of my life now. When this video described Gretchen as a follower it reminded me of her so much, now I understand why she stuck with those friends who were so mean to her and I understand why she became like them. She was under bad influence, but ultimately, it was her choice. For anyone out there who has low self esteem and wants to have friends who are popular or who wants help making decisions, you are amazing the way you are and you don't need to become like somebody else. We all should have agency and be our own person. You are capable, just give yourself a chance. Don't stick with people who make you miserable because you're afraid you won't find other friends.

I really like the musical's take on Gretchen's character. Her one solo song, "What's Wrong with Me?", outlines how she herself is aware that she'd only bring future unhappiness for herself, and yet she can't make herself let go of this status. The song's reprise is sung by Regina's mother, who, by acting like a "cool mom", is still subservient to the hierarchy that she most probably served under back in her own highschool years. This really connects the two and gives a tangible example of what Gretchen might become once she grows up.

This remind me of the song from the musical mean girls “ what’s wrong with me” I personally thought it really explains her character well

Regina’s mom was probably a follower FOR SURE

Poor Gretchen. She actually WAS a good Friend. She Just Pushed herself to impress a certain someone, and they thought it was 👌 to treat gretchen like crap, continuously.

I always found it pretty ironic that Gretchen was so subservient to Regina for most of the film (until she was pushed too far), as she seemed to me to be the obvious single largest threat to Regina's own position... If only she'd wanted to be. She's not at all lacking in the looks department (a poll I conducted years ago, though hardly scientific, had her ranked as the most attractive member of the plastics), she's presumably the richest by far, and most crucially, she knows everybody's business... her hair is full of secrets, lol. If anyone had the power to "totally just stab ceaser", it was Gretchen, and she probably would've had no trouble taking that position in the aftermath had she wanted. I think I pitied her the most because, while she absolutely had that potential, she seemingly never realized it, or saw it in herself. She had everything she needed to be Queen Bee... except the self confidence and the ruthless streak.

She’s the prettiest of them idk how Regina can say she’s not pretty

Anyone notice that Gretchen's family is German Jewish? I wonder if Gretchen's desire for social capital and to be indispensable to the Queen Bee are connected to what Gretchen's family went through. Supporting evidence is Gretchen's name Gretchen Wieners (a German name) and the fact that Gretchen received the silver hoop earrings that Regina said she wasn't allowed to wear for Chanukah.

I used to be a Gretchen and followed along with everything my group did just so I could remain close and popular alongside them, I was in middle school and I realise how stupid that was now, I mean, I have severe trust issues because of how badly I was backstabbed and treated now so I prefer to keep to myself and have a few close but loyal friends. Even though I'm no longer stuck in a toxic friendship, I still find myself looking for attention and validation though from my new friends who didn't know me when I was in my old group and honestly i can still see where all my insecurities came from when I was just discounted as being a 'dumb blonde' even though now I get straight A's and always study. It's the worst friendship to be in honestly.

I think I’m a Gretchen. My Regina isn’t a bad person and I’m still friends with her. The qualities describing Gretchen, I can relate to them, minus the abuse. I would get really mad if I sensed that she liked somebody else more than me. I know that’s a bad thing and I’m working on it. I also know secrets that most of her friends don’t know. I had to move schools this year and it was really hard. I miss her.

The prettiest Mean Girl. Had the biggest crush on her in primary school

Gretchen literally had so much information on regina that she could've used it against her. However, Gretchen choose not to is that she was comfortable in her place in the clique with regina and Karen. In my opinion, if anyone had the actual power to overthrow regina it would've been Gretchen.

One thing I always found ridiculous about teen movies is the court of girls who's only purpose in life seems to be standing behind an important character with a menacing expression..

I used to watch this show called Cold Case and they had an episode where this cheerleader Sam was forced to drink a spiked drink by the Head Cheerleader and her poise. Sam's best friend Riley was there during the incident, but she allowed her best friend to die because if she called an ambulance, Sam was gonna expose everything the head cheerleader had done in school, but because Riley so desperately wanted to stay apart of the cheer squad and "the structure" she couldn't let that happen. So she layed there in the middle of the football field and let her best-friend overdose on the drink. Riley wasn't chargred with murder because she didn't poor the drink, instead head cheerleader was arrested. Never the less it was said that Riley chose being apart of a Cheerleading squad with bitches who didn't give a f*ck about her, instead of her best friend of 12 years. 😞

In the movie, you can tell Gretchen is actually happy that Katie was slowly taking over Regina’s spot because Katie (while she began to slowly become just as narcissistic and power hungry) wasn’t as toxic and nasty as Regina was to Gretchen.

Can you give a take on why people like the kardashians and bhad bhabie are popular? Basically people who are porpular for no reason that anyone can figure out but they keep getting attention? Thanks

This makes me think of Christian Finnigan's stand-up routine on the "obnoxious popular guy's even more obnoxious best friend."

That's so fetch!

What Gretchen gets out of her followership is that she gets to be the person pulling the strings behind the scenes. She controls the contents of the Burn Book that Regina uses to make the girls go wild. She gets her place in the clique and the Who You Know status. She takes Regina´s abuse because she knows Regina depends on her for everything. She is like the spoiled celebrity´s agent.

Gretchen's character always interested me whenever I watch Mean Girls. Gretchen was that person who had a best friend who would constantly mistreat them, but didn't want to end the friendship because they were friends for so long. For a long time, I thought if I stopped being friends with one of my closest friends, who I had known since elementary school, I wouldn't have anyone to hang out with.

The difference in gossip girl is that Serena and Blair are both friends but neither of them are followers, yet they’re both still on top.

I never realized this before, but Gretchen is representative of every person with a job in a fiercely competitive industry with an abusive boss or every person who won’t or can’t leave a hot or wealthy abusive boyfriend or spouse.

Here faster than Gretchen spilling Regina's secrets.

I was in a toxic friendship a few months back. I realized i was becoming a follower just to stay in that group. The queen bee of that group was very skilled and she had the power to manipulate anyone and everyone as she liked. I fought with her and soon enough i was kicked out of that group. A wise man later told me that she was a controller... I should be happy that I was not one of those dumb people who followed her. Yah. That boosted my confidence. I am glad to know I am a rebel.. with a big personality. And haha, the entire group still looks out for me even though i am not officially there. She is pissed now because even after its been six months, they still taunt her for ruining their friendship with me. Karma...

I think people “like” people like Karen because they aren’t a threat. Sure, she is pretty and sweet but she doesn’t have the bite that makes her a threat to anyone. Karen’s like a baby, so it’s easy to be nice to her as long as you can be patient enough with her less-than-bright mind. Gretchen actually kinda liked Karen because of that baby-like “innocence,” Regina doesn’t think much of her because she knows Karen is too stupid and simple to plot anything against her, Cady is pretty neutral about Karen because of Karen wasn’t ever mean to anyone. On the flip side, Regina is always trying to keep Gretchen on a leash because she actually has information that she can use again Regina; Regina tries to manipulate Cady into submission because Cady is the one with the looks and brains to possibly dismantle her, and it actually happens for a while.

i hated how Gretchen was considered the non-attractive plastic, just because unike her friends her hair is dark and curly (she literally complained about her hair). i think one of the reasons why she considered Regina to be superior is because no matter how stunning she is, she was far away from the ideal american beauty standard which is having straight light hair and blue eyes, (if you look closely you'll see that she's the only one who was never called pretty) . She was so insecure about her attractiveness that she was still crushing on a guy who was flirting with other girls in front of her.

I want her to teach me the rules of feminism 😂😂

I used to be a Gretchen in elementary school and it was tiring and the most worst part of growing up in elementary till the 6th grade. She left and the girl that I thought hated me grew to be good friends and everyone in the class got along and was happy. I knew then to take control of my own life and stop worrying about her's or other's.

For those commenters on here who feel like they're Gretchens in their lives--you need to see the patterns of thought that dictate what you do in inter-personal relationships and stop yourself from going into those relationships. Spot these patterns and act on them. Look for people who treat you like an equal--these people allow you to voice your opinions and emotions, they give you space for your preferences (a big clue: they agree to do what you want most of the time), and they give you genuine help when you need it (especially an ear and a shoulder to lean on). If anyone in your circle of friends does not do this, cut them out quickly. Those people are bound to find a side-kick with low self-esteem. But this side-kick is not going to be you.

I was such a follower type . Because even if the “friends” were mean at lest sometimes they would treat you well and seemed to want you around . Luckily I out grew it

Cher isn't a mean girl. She was kinda vapid but you can still tell she had a heart of gold.. Dee, who I loved , was a mean girl on the other hand.

Well, teens are vulnerable with the STATUS aspect. And almost everyone are like Gretchen but when they became Regina, they cant handle it. They also look for Validation, thats it.

It's interesting to take note of what Gretchen wore in the end. I imagine she wore her hair curled before because Regina told her to. But with the new group, they all have straight hair with center parts. Throughout the movie, she's usually seen wearing light-colored, but she's now wearing a dark top. And she's wearing her hoop earrings. I wonder if her new Queen Bee gave her more liberty to wear what she wanted or if she's just adopted a new uniform to help her better fit in with her new group.

and Notice to be in these cliques... beauty is the first thing you have to have. Even in HS alot of the pretty girls were friends. However, watching this video I realize it wasn't because they genuinely liked each other, it was because they shared the same status of being a pretty girl. Kind of like how you see fat women clique up.

Dang I gotta watch Heathers soon. Can y'all do the fake nice parent trope?

These high school girl dynamics are so unrelatable, at least in Europe. In my HS class everyone had like 1-3 friends they stood around with on recess and barely remembered the name of anyone else. We were too tired and our backs were too sore for some petty hierarchy lmao

I love how this random mid-2000's teen comedy has warranted this level of analysis almost 20 years later. Brilliant

This reminds me of my country Philipoines. Duterte is Regina George, Gretchen is Bong Go and the rest of his senators. Lastly, the DDS Filipinos are all Karen Smiths.

This deep introspections into a simple film like Mean Girls is fascinating, keep up guys!

They want power and status but they know they can't get it by themselves so they form a symbiotic relationship with the popular one. Even if the popular one is kind and a gentle person. The sidekick will be mean because they want to narrow the access channel to the game circle they imagine is around the popular one.

Gretchen is what we call a “door knob”. They usually go hand-in-hand with a “dominant” (Regina). The Dominant chooses which way the door knob turns - it has no will of its own, it yields entirely to the turner.

I was a Gretchen in my last three years of primary school (elementary).Looking back on it, I wonder why I took so much abuse from my ‘friends’ just to stay apart of the group. It felt impossible to explain it to people around me and made me feel like an idiot.This video makes it so much easier to understand.Thank you! Also; Is it strange to say that at the time,they (my ‘friends’) often made me believe that I was more of a Karen in the group? Not intelligent enough or flat out dumb,to keep me from believing I could just leave them?

A point that could be added that how obvious there roles are to everyone watching. While these followers believe they have status, it is never really true.

Yes Regina, no Regina Every waking hour I spend making sure Regina, George can stay in power If Regina is the sun, then I’m the disco ball ‘Cos I’m just as bright and fun If you’ve got alcohol I’ll wave your secrets out of you and bring them to my master... And then I’ll watch Regina Make your life a big disaster! Regina is the queen but I’m the head of worker bees And I am seated by her right side like a Jewish princess Jesus!

Every line in this movie is ICONIC

I used to be a follower when I was younger and I was miserable. Constantly being belittled by friends made my self-confidence plummet yet I would never really stand up for myself until later on . I rationalized that it's better to have friends than none at all. It was wrong though, there was a lot toxicity due to insecurities. Admittedly I started to buy into it and became used to the treatment, thinking that was how most friendship dynamics were supposed to be. I only improved my mental health once I started to stand up for myself.

Please make character analyses for all "how I met your mother" main characters, like you did for "Friends"!

I had a best friend who I was friends with since Highschool who treated me like I was her side kick and I don’t think she ever saw me as a friend. I couldn’t even open up to her. It was always about her and she would criticize me when I tried opening up to her. Even when I talked about my own problems she would act like I was being selfish and say everyone has problems. I got tired of it so I called her out on it and told her I don’t want to be her friend anymore.

Gretchen's character is really interesting. They show a little bit more of her insecure side in mean girls the musical

I just love your take on this, I mightve been that "follower mindset" person in college and i just find myself back then very people-pleasing. I remember feeling superior than others and cant believe im more stupider back then 😂

Found this to be really realistic Gretchen has always been my fav because she was so relatable. My friendship group is similar to the plastics. There is the leader, who is mostly the leader because the rest of us are just too shy. Basically, she is the only one able to assert her dominance as a leader. Also, she is able to express her opinion bravely, which just makes you think she is right. And when she stands up for something you agree with, but never could, it makes her seem valuable. She isnt afraid to speak up for us so the group feels protected. She also speaks up against other remembers of the group. We have rules, punishments and meetings. It can suck to be a follower because you need to lie about your opinionbs or do bad things you otherwise shouldnt do. I suported the leader kicking another girl out the group till the very last second. I once expressed a strong opinion for the first time in the group, and leader talked about me to the other members behind my back. I pretend to agree with the leader when I dont in order for her to trust me more. I follow her for many reasons 1) Comfort- If I have any concerns, she will listen to them, and not spill them to anyone. I cant be salty towards her without being afraid she will leave me because we are close. We can talk about anything because she can be so evil that I have a place to talk about that stuff. Also if I bring up a concern of mine about anything (even other members of the group ) she will bring them up with confidence and sas. 2) Safety- I know that I am not at risk of being kicked out the group, or being talked about behind me back ( most of the time ) because I am so close to her. 3) Knowledge- I can understand exactly whats going on in the group, because she is the most secretive, I can understand my other friends easily, and I get her secrets and plans. I understand everything about everyone you could say. 4) Friendship- I am deadly afraid of having no friends, so if I am a follower, I have a close friend. Its easy. Not many people will except a follower other than means girls. Its how I can get a 100% secure friendship. 5) Respect- The other members of the group know how close I am with her, and know that I know alot so they have a bit of respect for me, but not fear. We still talk with no pressure or like we need to be careful, like we do with the leader,

The lyrics "mama told me I was beautiful, don't believe her anymore" MAKES SO MUCH SENSE NOW

Video suggestions on characters: - The Dumb Girl trope (Not sure if the blonde video covers most of this) - The Rises and Fall of Jan Levinson (I find her to be a very fascinating character, shes a independent and professional woman but sadly her self destructiveness ruins her) - The Dumb Guys (like Joey Tribianni, Luke Dunphy etc) - Why Do We Hate Main Characters Today (i realised we have a certain trend where we started to notice the flaws of our loved main characters such as Pam Beesley, Tori of Victorious, Rachel Greene,)

How's strange. The Take channel showed up in my dreams just a few minutes ago! Love the channel. Keep up the good work.

Man, either American schools are really weird or that book is making stuff up like crazy. NONE of this stuff matches my school experience.

This absolutely reminded me of Unbreakable Kimye Schmidt when that Gretchen was such a follower, and then goes on to lead her own cult.

I love these Mean Girls analysis videos. Sure, it’s a funny and ridiculous comedy, but it’s incredibly well-written and a lot of thought was put into the characters. It’s what makes this movie stand out from most teen drama/comedies.

This is basically how any abusive relationship works

I wonder about Euphoria and how it can relate to this. Honestly I felt I was this for dome friendships even as an adult and I realized how I was numbing my intelligence and sense of beauty make those friends feel less intimidated and how I settled for their treatment because I was afraid of being lonely. It doesn't take much for a Gretchen to turn into a Janis.

I think Regina mainly kept Gretchen around because she could count on the fact that no matter if she wanted to, Gretchen could never over throw Regina as she is MEANT to serve/ be a follower as opposed to a queen bee. Unlike Cady and Janice who are both the mean girls in different ways, Gretchen is desperate to be liked and seeks approval because of her insecurities rather than be the power figure where as Karen doesn’t care about any of it and just happens to be a pretty, rich girl but isn’t really bothered about what other people think of her or being Regina’s favourite which is why, at the end, Karen does NOT join a new cliche but Gretchen DOES!

I'm here early, and baby, I'm ready for it. The narration and the analysis makes me so calm and gives me a lot of new input on stuff. I love this channel! 💜