well described

Ran anemic 20.7s two years Integrate 2-Rel Carbon Specials JLA cr-1 active crossover Shunyata Python xlr cables Time alignment is perfect 😊

Agreed - I'm thinking you can do all the DSP/crossovers with the miniDSP model of your choice for less than a grand. If it's truly an open architecture then it should be platform agnostic re. DSP/crossover implementation.

I have had the ETs like you mention for years and felt no need to seek something else. Bruce Thigpen's design really is a amazing one that delivers the very highest value in loudspeakers for me.

Have you heard the LFT8's with the new woofer, which gets them to $4500? Just asking.

@@Fred-ql3gq Bruce was several months behind on my order when he graciously offered to give me the 8cs (which he had a pair in stock) for the same price. It was tempting, of course, but Bruce was such a nice guy during the whole ordeal that I declined - and I still pretty good about it. Great guy, and great speakers.

@@Fred-ql3gq no I haven't. might spring for it sometime though.

Yeah, the LFT-8b or the latest LFT-8c models are certainly compelling choices. I might yet order a pair, even unheard. Or just order new Maggies. 🤔👍🍺

I don't think that vintage audio will come down in pricing, any time soon, just because of the increasing prevalence of DSP - hard core traditionalists will always want their analog experience, which continues to support thousands of speaker manufacturers, tube amp builders, and "Saudi yacht" turntable fabricators.

@@abboberg The DSP I foresee doesn't touch analog sources at all. Rather, it will be an active solution that will intelligently "create" the synergy between speakers, amplification and room acoustics. The processed synergy will enhance the analog experience to a degree of consistent musicality unachievable otherwise, at a fraction of the cost of high end systems. This will impact their entire business model.

@sonusancti I agree - bringing the cost down of the ultimate psychoacoustic tech is the goal. It's amazing what we currently have available in active monitors with DSP control. It's only going to get better.

Listened to Alsyvox Botticelli external crossovers, no subs. Amazing separation & clarity Lot of coin 🪙 not for majority

Anemic 20.7s, 2 years 😮 2-Rel Carbon Specials JLA cr-1 active crossover Less Clarisys Auditorium ➕️

Good reason to stay away! Snake oil. 🐍

​@@user-js2dr9gv1u Snake oil? Will you elaborate?

Certainly the Dipole Sub implemented here is of GR Research origin. I believe Mr. Richie has regular contact with people at Magnepan & Danville/Hollis Audio Labs.

@@user-js2dr9gv1u Is there a bad review of GR Research Servo Subs you can share with us?

The columns operate on the same dipole principle as the panels themselves, creating a similar radiating pattern. That's the point. Dipole subs do not suffer from room modes as much as conventional ones.

​@@Munakas-wq3gp Exactly The point is for full range dipole propagation.

It's time for an upgrade 😊

@@CarlVanDoren61 He could upgrade to the 1.7's, a pair of 1.6's, send the MG's back to Magnepan for upgrades, or he can stay satisfied as he is.👍

2-Rel T9/x & K231 Sublime 😊 Sonic better, way less than $7k Thought U gave up mayonnaise?

Very similar. I spoke to Danny several years ago and he told me he was working with Windal to develop a bass module using smaller drivers. I'm assuming this is the result. I am not sure using smaller drivers in open baffle is going to be the best approach. I want to try My modified 1.7i with 2 open baffle cabinets each with 1x15 and 1×18. I am sure you have played with minidsp units before. How does the Barringer unit you use compare? I was about to pull the trigger on dbx drive rack PA2. I have modified the xovers for the Maggie's but also tempted to start over and make them bi ampable 2 way then incorporate the bottom end using dsp and separate subs. Any thoughts?

@@ufarkingicehole These aren't the woofers Danny was talking about. Those are the UBS and they're designed primarily as a woofer for the forthcoming CSS spouse friendly Maggie (only 12" wide!). Behringer has a bad rep in general. Among other things, they steal other people's designs. I'd stick with MiniDSP. Smaller woofers sound better than large ones. Obviously, though, you have to use a lot of them to move air! If you want dipole bass with extension and slam, larger woofers are he way to go.

@Josh442 thank you for the reply

Wallet is the compromise Along with room size 😮

Nice! Hope all goes well with them

GR Research also sells open baffle subs based on the same driver/amp/DSP in the Rhythmik subs FYI. I was still able to get it to disappear perfectly with the sealed box though and get more BOOM that way.

Did you take any pictures of how you placed the LRS+ crossover upgrade parts in the cutout of the cabinet? I'm wondering how to fit them. GR Research did not provide any pictures, just the scheme.

Ran anemic 20.7s couple years Added 2-Rel Carbon Specials JLA cr-1 active crossover 😊 Shunyata Research Python xlr's

The 12" is for resonance, sensitivity, tone, and projection. Not for low frequency capability.

@@FOH3663 I was talking about a 12" fullrange driver.

@@duncan.5228 Got it

Upgrade to 3.7is 😊 True ribbon tweeter

I disagree. I have traditional large speakers AND 1.6QR rolling in my 2-ch setup and they require same distance into the room to be able to provide that special 3D-spaciness... Mine are about 4-4.5 feet out... However, putting a Magnepan too close will probably have a larger negative effect that a traditional box speaker... Just my experiences...

@@martinlindberg1983 Exactly. All speakers should be away from room surfaces to provide a good sense of space -- the idea is to delay the room reflections because the ear times them and uses it to determine how big the space is. But it's more critical in back of dipoles. On the other hand, the side walls are less critical because of the dipole null at the sides.

Auditioned GR three stack Sonics bounced everywhere Rel, w active crossover is best

They are moving in that direction -- the 30.7 and forthcoming CSS have it, and I think you'll see it moving down the line.

amen!

Good cables make a difference No need for external crossover

Agreed.I use sealed subs with mine and they blend fine. The crossover and connection plate are not the greatest and can be modded for better performance. I would rather steer away from all that dsp myself.

It's easy enough to add DSP and electronic crossovers. The earlier models bring some of the drivers out to the back, and are set up to facilitate bi-amping; the current ones don't because the series crossover doesn't facilitate that, but someone who is a bit handy can modify them easily enough.

Groups already recommend Rel 👌

GR Research does upgrades.

Checked into extreme $7k 20.7s weren't much more 😊

@@CarlVanDoren61 The Triple Threat sub is around $2k for the kit.

It's not that difficult when shown 😊

they are less dynamic sure but more holographic to me

They should be more rather than less 3 dimensional, with the sound going back from the speaker to behind your wall. How far from the wall did/do you have them? The further from the front wall of the room, the more depth you'll hear. 3' is the bare minimum.

@@Josh442they have 3 dimensional sound just not the way a normal speaker does it. I play with speaker positioning at least once a week lol. I have pulled them up within 6 feet of me just to take the room out of the equation and get great sound but then I’m not getting the scale I’m able to get out of my very large room.

@@t.j.bennett6454 Are you trying to get the sound in front of the speakers? I've never heard a dipole that could do that. The speakers should be at least 3' from the front wall, preferably 6' or even more. But I think your best bet here may be to put diffusion behind the speakers at the first reflection point (the point at which you'll see them from your listening position if you put a mirror on the front wall). Dipoles are generally at their best that way. What I like about properly set up line sources is that I don't get a sense of a miniature image. It's more like listening through a window to the real space. But 2 channel stereo is always a compromise, so I guess you have to choose the compromise you most like!

@@Josh442 what lead you to think I was trying to get it in front?

$5k in new carpet, no pets 😮

👻

They're dipoles. What would you expect? They look like figure 8 off axis, with lobing due to the lateral crossover. The lobing is a problem. The DSP XO can change it, but you can't change the position of the drivers. Point source speakers have it too, but since it's vertical, I think it's less of an issue, as long as you're sitting. Anyway, it's always going to be compromise. Dipoles have the advantage of a consistent radiation pattern across the frequency spectrum. No baffle step, though line sources have their own issues. (There are some cool ways to eliminate the lobing, but they're pretty costly.)

I switched out my maggie center for KEF R2 and blends great with my front 1.7i, much better off axis than mag center as well as more voice clarity. Movies never sounded better in my rig, plus dual REL 1205HT subs.

I could not agree more. Give a great platform, and have it ready to be taken next level by Hobbyists. This also is good for expanding the Magnepan's market share as well. I got into the inexpensive panels, and then moved on up. I also find it hard to understand some folks that rail against it Flat panel speakers. Its not like you have to just pick one and never buy another set that meets your needs for another space or application. Some of these folks seem to think that you are married to them or something. Or have some idea that one speaker type has to be superior. Weird. I don't see people putting Maggie's in their car. (I have but they would not fit LOL)

Bait

Yes the diptyque speakers is a prime example of it being done right.

This is Danville's system, not Magnepan. Magnepan didn't design and won't be selling it. But to your point -- sure, they could double the price, but who would buy them? There are neo planars out there but they're very expensive. Also, that may not be the best approach from a price-performance level -- merely making the baffle larger will get you more bang for the buck -- MDF is a lot cheaper than neodynium! They offer fancier crossover parts now in the "X" models/mods. Rather than stiffening the frame, get the 20.7's or 30.7's. Those have the dual magnets which increase flux but just as importantly stiffen the structure. I think you'll see them going to aluminum frames in the future and making some other fundamental changes.

Magnepan didn't do this and it isn't a Magnepan product. But even if they had, *any* speaker can be improved with DSP and electronic crossovers. This is simply icing on the cake.

@@Josh442 Incorrect. It’s clearly stated that magnepan IS introducing a line of speakers without crossovers in parallel with their traditional line. Why are they doing this? It seems to me that they are making the admission I commented on above.

@@edd2771 Except that Magnepan isn't -- I'm in close contact with them and have been updated on all the interactions. (In fact, I was the one who first suggested that the talk to Danville about another product). Danville has proposed doing this, but Magnepan hasn't agreed. If I haven't said this already, this is *not* a Magnepan product, but a Danville product. They modified their own pair of speakers and told Magnepan. Magnepan agreed to help them with the demo. In any case, as I said, *any* speaker can be improved with DSP and active crossovers. You can simply do things with electronics that you can't do with a mechanical transducer or a passive crossover -- linear phase crossovers, room and driver equalization, etc.

Just an FYI, Danville Signal's dspNexus 2/8 is built with plug-in modules so we can always update the DSP, the DAC etc without having to change everything. It was designed that way on purpose.

@@loriannclark9199 that is commendable 👌🏼. My comment was just a general preference. Having gone down the combined road with Naim and having been disappointed with longer-term upgradeability. I am also sure that there is a lot of value in a lot of combined products - and modularity and upgradeability is a good concept - both for the customer and for customer retention. 👏🏼 I will follow developments with interest, having had Maggies and not being sure whether replacing them was the best choice - considering all trade-offs.

Placed order w dealer Less than two months!

You’re missing out then.

@@YouSoundButtHurt Yeah, naah 😅. Done that, thank you ma'am. Still courious on Hifi but no longer about planar speakers (esp. Maggies)

It's always going to be a tradeoff. But you should be getting good dynamics in the mids and highs -- the larger ones will play pretty loud. Was the amp undersized? They need a big one.

Why does everyone say no dynamics on maggies, I've had Vandersteen 3A Sig, KEF, KLH Model5, Pioneer and others and the 1.7i has plenty of dynamics and slam, especially with dual REL subs but even without the subs. Plus, the sweet spot on the i series is plenty wide, better than pre i series. Maggies don't sound as good if not sitting down in the sweet spot but still sound great when walking around the room, like for a party, doing dishes in another room etc.

Um, I am a longtime Maggie Owner , but a newly minted Danville Signal Crossover Owner. I have seen various iterations of the Dipole Subs available for several years now. I am a bit lost as to what exactly you think is unavailable in the here & now? Times have changed greatly at Magnepan.

LOL You failed to pass without comment. Like no other company has ever promoted a product & not delivered.

Just to clarify, this isn't a Magnepan product. Danville put it together, so I don't think you'll see the typical Magnepan delay. (By the way, the woofer is still very much alive and in the final stages of production engineering -- there have been a few hitches centering on the treatment of the back, they've been working on finding an approach that's functional and attractive and it hasn't been simple because the woofer magnets protrude.)

It's not a "Pipe Dream". Danville Signal already manufactures the crossover, DSP & subs. Pay attention!

You really are a copy paste kinda critic, huh? I’ve seen the same exact wording on this speaker in other reviews. Therefore, ...you are sus.

When a musical vocalist sings to you in your home they do not have vocal chords in the back of their head only in the front. 901 reasons???? dipoles give you that smeared phasey sound that some people like but thats not a true facsimile of the input signal.

No no no no no! All speakers radiate onto one surface or another. With point sources, it's to the sides at higher frequencies and to the sides and rear at lower ones (the baffle step). This creates a sense of space as long as the speakers are a distance from the wall. In general, point sources spread the image, dipoles give it depth. That said, dipoles dump 2.8 dB *less* reverberant sound into the room. That makes them better suited to a room without acoustical treatment, since the Rt is just about right. Point sources need some absorption. If you want, you can eliminate the rear reflections by putting some absorption on the wall behind the speakers. They become very clinical and precise. Not very realistic, but some people like it. The generally preferred approach, though, is to put diffusion behind the speakers. Waterfall plots -- it is hard to gate the room reflections with a large line source. (See John Atkinson's measurements, where he says that he's never quite sure whether he's measuring the reflections or not.) But assuming you do that -- the waterfall of a large planar is very good up close, not so much at a distance. This does not seem to impair the sound -- planar speakers, whatever their technology, are known for their clarity. The costliest dynamics can equal or outdo them in that respect, but most dynamics sound muddy and mushy by comparison. If you want to see something not stopping, look at the bass. The bass rings like crazy, because it's inherent to the passive equalization used in dipole design. This does affect the sound of the bass -- but still, where it plays, dipole bass is more realistic because it doesn't excite as many room modes, meaning that it has a flatter response. I think what you're doing here is listening with measurements. That works only if you measure *everything* and know how to interpret the measurements. I don't know of any speaker designer save the late Peter Walker who doesn't rely on listening to voice their designs.

@@Josh442 Hello . Thanks for your response. Just think of what your saying. When I have done double blind tests live vocal vs same vocal recoded and played back on point source Vandersteens model 7s they sound the same . Double blind live vocal and the same vocal recorded played on Maggie's 3.7 they are totaly different . It doesn't sound like the live vocal. I have had a panel of 20 people and all said the point source Vandersteen was the same as the live vocalist. The Maggies didn't sound as real, it had this phasey sound that was not realistic, some people like this and Maggie's sell. The truth is in the listening and dipoles fail miserably on double blind live vocal versus the same recorded vocal 20 panelists all agreed. No lie....

@@raymaksimavicius4902 Interesting! The main problem, I think, is that you recorded one vocalist, so you didn't test what line source dipoles do best -- recreate performances in large venues. I've never heard a conventional loudspeaker do that convincingly. In the case of a single vocalist, you're hearing the listening room's acoustic, and it's appropriate. Also, curiously, planars are the only speakers that can convincingly reproduce piano -- perhaps because he piano is itself a large dipole!

Live piano, its radiation is all 100 percent in phase. A recorded piano the rear radiation in a dipole is 180 degrees out of phase with the front radiation. A piano is not and I repeat, not a dipole!!!! Again dipoles give you this phasey presentation, but some people like it, I don't...The truth is in the listening 😊

Picture says a thousand words 😮

You have to ask if this was a paid advertisement for Danville?