This blows away the $60 budget oscilloscope! (OWON VDS1022 review)

Рет қаралды 309,075

Күн бұрын

#c64 #commodore #repair
On today's video, we have another cheap oscilloscope review while repairing a C64. This one directly compares to Hantek 6022BE USB scope I reviewed back in February 2022. How usable is this scope?
0:00 Intro
0:46 Unboxing and specs
11:15 Software and user interface
24:11 Inspecting the C64
33:07 Looking at signals with the scope
43:48 Does the C64 work now?
50:46 Exploring more signals on the scope
53:16 Conclusions
Budget scope reviews:
Hantek 6022BE Review: • How good can a new $60...
Hantek 2C42 Review: • Testing a $125 2-chann...
Hantek PSO2020 Review: • 3/12 C64 repair using ...
ZEEWEII DSO1511G review: • 4/12 C64 repair using ...
C64 Repairs in this series:
Episode 1: • 2/12 C64 black screen ...
Episode 2: • 1/12 C64 repair: "Out ...
Episode 3: • 3/12 C64 repair using ...
Episode 4: • 4/12 C64 repair using ...
Episode 5: This episode!
--- Video Links
Purchase links for OWON VDS1022:
www.aliexpress.us/item/225580... ($80 shipped as of Jan 2023)
amzn.to/3vuA1WP (Amazon, $95 as of Jan 2023)
Open Source software for this scope: (Will do a follow-up video with it)
github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS...
Adrian's Digital Basement Merch store:
my-store-c82bd2-2.creator-spr...
Adrian's Digital Basement ][ (Second Channel)
/ @adriansdigitalbasement2
Support the channel on Patreon:
/ adriansdigitalbasement
-- Tools
Deoxit D5:
amzn.to/2VvOKy1
store.caig.com/s.nl/it.A/id.16...
O-Ring Pick Set: (I use these to lift chips off boards)
amzn.to/3a9x54J
Elenco Electronics LP-560 Logic Probe:
amzn.to/2VrT5lW
Hakko FR301 Desoldering Iron:
amzn.to/2ye6xC0
Rigol DS1054Z Four Channel Oscilloscope:
www.rigolna.com/products/digi...
Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
amzn.to/3adRbuy
TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer: (The MiniPro)
amzn.to/2wG4tlP
www.aliexpress.com/item/33000...
TS100 Soldering Iron:
amzn.to/2K36dJ5
www.ebay.com/itm/TS100-65W-MI...
EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
www.eevblog.com/product/121gw/
DSLogic Basic Logic Analyzer:
amzn.to/2RDSDQw
www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Logic-DS...
Magnetic Screw Holder:
amzn.to/3b8LOhG
www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-...
Universal ZIP sockets: (clones, used on my ZIF-64 test machine)
www.ebay.com/itm/14-16-18-20-...
RetroTink 2X Upconverter: (to hook up something like a C64 to HDMI)
www.retrotink.com/
Plato (Clone) Side Cutters: (order five)
www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-5-10PCS-...
Heat Sinks:
www.aliexpress.com/item/32537...
Little squeezy bottles: (available elsewhere too)
amzn.to/3b8LOOI
--- Links
My GitHub repository:
github.com/misterblack1?tab=r...
Commodore Computer Club / Vancouver, WA - Portland, OR - PDX Commodore Users Group
www.commodorecomputerclub.com/
--- Instructional videos
My video on damage-free chip removal:
• How to remove chips wi...
--- Music
Intro music and other tracks by:
Nathan Divino
@itsnathandivino

Пікірлер: 483

@adriansdigitalbasement Жыл бұрын

Follow-up: I actually had never looked at the Rev A C64 video output circuit on the schematics before. It turns out the RF modulator is not part of the Chrome/Luma processing at all on this revision. (It's the only one that's like this.) See the top right part of this schematic: www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/c64/326106-2of2.gif That means this mod surely worked OK at some point. I think the issue I was seeing with the luma signal being super low was due to bad soldering or broken traces because the rework done was bad. When I restored the board back to the original 5-pin connector, I fixed a few traces with bodge wires near the video connector and now everything is back to original condition. (I also restored R10 to be 120 ohm as specified on the schematic. It was 300 ohms on this machine.) Ideally, a RF modulator replacement could be created to output S-Video and Audio but this would require a could bodge wires running to FB14 and FB15 near the VIC-II. Also ideally the entire original video output circuit should be disconnected and a new composite feed be fed into the DIN-5 from the new RF modulator board. See Mark's video here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gqhimtd-tt_OoYU.html

@button-puncher Жыл бұрын

Ever checked out the BitScope units? I've been eyeing one up because the software looks really interesting. Besides normal o-scope stuff, it can also do data logging. Thanks again for another great video. I need to go dig the C64 out of my parents basement to see what Rev it is. :)

@slawomirkulinski Жыл бұрын

There are keyboard shortcuts mentioned, try using arrow keys.

@volodimirkun Жыл бұрын

Hey! This exact scope helps me make money almost every day. I repair power invertors and it is essential for getting fast reliable repairs out. Regards from far Ukraine

@jessihawkins9116 Жыл бұрын

your not touching my inverter with that piece of junk. go get a techtronicks

@pa4tim Жыл бұрын

I understand that because 80 dollar is a lot of money in your country. I repair too for a living but I am happy I do not have to use this thing. But it is better a nothing. I would stay away from inverters. I use a HV diff probe for working on inverters.

@julias-shed Жыл бұрын

@@jessihawkins9116 brilliant trolling from someone who can’t even spell Techtronix 🤣

@VoltageLP Жыл бұрын

@@pa4tim it's isolated, so it's perfectly fine for dealing with invertors. I would use an extra USB isolator though

@jessihawkins9116 Жыл бұрын

@@julias-shed I use my techtronicks ossilloscope and flook meter every day 😃

@jammin023 Жыл бұрын

I bought this as my first ever scope after seeing lots of reviews, and I'm happy with it for the very occasional times I need a scope. Yeah the software is kind of infuriating although the github version fixes some of those annoyances. But the UI as a whole could be a lot better, making use of the large screen of a laptop to lay out more immediate controls instead of requiring menu diving. But as you say, the scope itself seems very capable, fast and accurate, and that's surely the most important thing.

@swdw973 Жыл бұрын

The open source software interface for this scope you linked in the description is definitely better than Owon's. Has a little more functionality and control. Will allow you to use the scope on Linux too.

@theserpentes 5 ай бұрын

Linux mentioned... Instant buy... :) Thank you for pointing that out...

@EinChris75 Жыл бұрын

That analysis of the video signal was amazing.

@more.power. Жыл бұрын

Hi Adrian you did a great interview on the The Retro Hour (Retro Gaming Podcast) this week. Thank you for sharing your early years with us and how you became interested in electronics. Cheers Tim

@RogerBarraud Жыл бұрын

You need 2 things: 1. A real name 2. MorePower!!!!!11!

@TRONMAGNUM2099 Жыл бұрын

The 57 dollar scope you showed has been a nice addition to my bench. I grab it all the time now for quick signal checks. I have several other scopes, but it is super convenient.

@daw7563 Жыл бұрын

One of your best videos yet! 👍

@Cherijo78 Жыл бұрын

I do enjoy seeing all of these cheap scopes as options, especially for beginners. 11 year-old me would have adored one of these on my electronics bench in the late 1980s! I personally ended up buying a standalone Siglent SDS1104X-U because I needed something that could do a little more and was a little bit more reliable, as well as four channel. I kind of wish I had sprung for the -E Model as it has a port to add a digital logic analyzer to it, but I didn't really have the money at the time.

@ccoder4953 Жыл бұрын

I have the SDS1104X-E. I wouldn't be too unhappy about not getting the E model. The logic analyzer is rather pricey (almost as much as the scope) and, from what I read, not all that great (missing trigger off digital options, for example). Makes sense - the digital module isn't like other scopes where all the logic is in the scope and the pod is just buffering/signal conditioning. Have to step up to the SDS2104X-Plus to get a more digital logic analyzer setup. Its definitely a much nicer scope, but quite a bit more expensive. I'm happy with my SDS1104X-E - it's alot of scope for the price.

@Clavichordist Жыл бұрын

Way back when I worked in manufacturing, I used to touch up the circuit boards that came out of wave soldering. We would insert headers and things that couldn't otherwise survive the trip through the wave soldering machine and we also installed ECO wires. When we installed wires, we would use some "super glue" to hold the wires in place and route them neatly, or at least I did the neat routing at the time. Once our wires were installed, we used some De-Sol as it was called to remove the extra flux and we then trimmed up any extra pins and inspected for solder shorts. When I finally became a tech, I was quite proficient at replacing chips due to my touch-up experience and I can proudly say that there was little difference between my chip removal and hand soldering compared to what was done on the manufacturing side. Sadly, this wasn't the case for all the techs and many ruined boards very badly as was the case with field returns. This was a common occurrence when I worked in field service where I received circuit boards and equipment that was already 8 or 10 years old. With those boards, some dating back to the mid to late 1970s, the pads were ripped and wire-wrap wire, or bus wire as we called it, was a common sight on the backs. When I received those boards back from the field, I learned quickly enough to check for that before even powering up the boards because in many cases, it was these poor repairs that were causing the more recent problems due to cold solder joints or intermittent breaks in the copper traces. Those USB scopes are amazing critters compared to the old Tektronix 465B which I was so accustomed to.

@eightsprites Жыл бұрын

Nice video. I enjoyed it. Thanks for the scope review.

@semuhphor Жыл бұрын

I am enjoying your channel. Thanks!

@fontende Жыл бұрын

Seeing you happy and laughing is the best for us all. I think you have a great humour for the group cinema watching, sadly you don't do live streaming of such.

@btraker Жыл бұрын

I don't know what YT video creator is worse for my gear acquisition syndrome - you or Mat from Techmoan! Great content and I look forward to seeing you use this scope on more projects.

@senilyDeluxe Жыл бұрын

For me, the e-waste container dictates my gear acquisition :-) and my collection isn't half bad.

@SimonBauer7 Ай бұрын

i want your e waste Container ngl.@@senilyDeluxe

@alanmann 2 ай бұрын

brilliant intro to the OWON. I bought one and was struggling with the interface like you. Good to get a second opinion on the hardware though.

@digitalarchaeologist5102 Жыл бұрын

Love coincidences like this. I've been using this exact model of Owon for the last two days and it's my first o-scope of any kind so I kinda jumped when I saw this video in my feed. You wouldn't believe how embarrassingly long it took me to realise the hook portion of the probe just pulled off and I struggled with hours using it with the hook on

@mogwaay Жыл бұрын

I'm really enjoying your cheap scope reviews, hope it doesn't drive you mad! I liked your almost thumbs up review system too. I survive on my USB 2CH Hantek using the hScope app for my phone, but would like to change up, this could be a nice little upgrade. Cheers!

@robervaldo4633 Жыл бұрын

i have the non-isolated version since about 5 or 6 years ago (haven't used it much, though); the software is java and, at least when I got it, it came with source code (possibly by mistake), at the time some people were trying to make it work on linux, IIRC, it's great that now there's opensource software for it!

@joveaaron-real Жыл бұрын

Hope he notices your comment!

@MatthewHolevinski Жыл бұрын

@@joveaaron-real Yep looks like github has some unofficial release that looks a lot better.

@nickwallette6201 Жыл бұрын

Nice! Hope somebody’s translating that to C++.

@paulabraham2550 Жыл бұрын

@@nickwallette6201 Well, we can be thankful that at least it's not python.

@RogerBarraud Жыл бұрын

Where?

@Spelter Жыл бұрын

Thx for the review, I will stay with my Opensource DIY scopes and Hantec with Opensource Software :)

@frankdearr2772 9 ай бұрын

Great, thanks for sharing 👍

@1kreature Жыл бұрын

Pro tip: Oscilloscope probes with 1x/10x usually only have their full rated bandwidth at 10x setting. Working on 5v stuff you can use 10x attenuation with not much added noise and it may sharpen those waveforms up a bit.

@ccoder4953 Жыл бұрын

Yes, Dave Jones did a nice video explaining: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hc9xoKiDlrWumGg.html

@sirtinley-knot2944 Жыл бұрын

As a beginner I learned so much from this about using oscilloscopes in general. What an amazing level of knowledge you have! Inspirational!

@tony359 Жыл бұрын

The scope reads UOMO when it was upside down on camera - "Man" in Italian LOL. Nice video, I like how you manage to mix the new equipment with an actual repair! The scope looks very good to me - the UI is improvable but I guess you can get used to it. What really matters is that for only $80 you get what seems to be a very capable hardware!

@glendady8879 Жыл бұрын

Hey Adrian, love the videos. An idea for a video that I think a lot of us would love to see, how about a Oscilliscope 101 video. You convinced me that I need one of these in my kit for working on Retro PCs, and when I got it and turned it on I realized that I had no idea how to use it.

@Peter_S_ Жыл бұрын

I recently bought an Owon handheld scope and I am quite impressed. It's a great little instrument and being isolated from ground is a huge bonus.

@graealex Жыл бұрын

Isolation is a really big plus. On the other end of the spectrum are oscilloscopes that connect ground of the DUT with the ground of your expensive laptop/desktop computer. Why even bother with USB oscilloscopes...

@8thsam Жыл бұрын

I have the 100mhz model with built in awg. It's such a handy piece of kit to have in my bag as a service engineer. I highly suggest upgrading the leads. I use Probemasters (DMM and scope) with mine.

@H0mework Жыл бұрын

@@graealex in the US laptops are cheap. I can get a used one for $20 or free. If you're hooking USB scopes to your expensive computer that's really your fault.

@graealex Жыл бұрын

@@H0mework I don't think you actually get the problem here.

@K-o-R Жыл бұрын

That voltage regulator relocation job is just _chef's kiss_

@geoffmorrison3648 Жыл бұрын

At 19:11 you are only seeing a subset of the time/div selections. In the scroll bar move the slider to see, and be able to click on, other rates.

@Nordmende01 Жыл бұрын

I could remember this Mods. I live in Germany and that was described in magazines. It was an series starting low level things and gaining the higher thinking. The voltage mod I have made together with a small peach of copper that I had. And the mod with the Luna mod I remember. They had a special monitor in the lab and did not thought about that a normal monitor is not so sensitive. Two weeks later they explain the mistake.

@alexwild4350 Жыл бұрын

As the mods began to be revealed that is exactly what I thought, "These mods were done by an enthusiast at home with limited skills and equipment" and a magazine of the day would be the exact place the information came from.

@timmiee32 8 ай бұрын

Hi @adriansdigitalbasement. Thank you so much for this in depth video! Loved it and bought a unit from Amazon. I don’t have any electronics background so apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do you connect up the usb cables? In one KZfaq video I saw the person plug both usb A males into the laptop, in another the KZfaqr only plugged in one and the other was left dangling, and on some forum I’ve read people plugging in one male into the laptop and the other into a mains outlet using like a handphone usb charger adaptor. Appreciate any advice 🙏🏼

@modifyman6977 3 ай бұрын

I don't know how I ended up here but I did watch through to the end. Oh, it was the oscilloscope. I'm looking to purchase one and really taking my time about it...looking and listening...

@kencreten7308 Жыл бұрын

Great review. thanks.

@lbanting Жыл бұрын

Gotta get one of these! I think that the menu window is actually quite intuitive and quite effective in my opinion.

@renelefebvre53 Жыл бұрын

I have it and I love it ! For this low price , it's the best choice for beginners . I use with a old PC , a kind of notebook with 10"" screen and it make the job for me ! Very good choice !!!

@jimtekkit 7 ай бұрын

I got a Multicomp Pro MP720016 and it's basically a re-branded Owon VDS1022 (non-isolated) so it uses the same software. It's the first scope I've ever owned and functionally it's a good fit for doing hobby electronics. It has good edge triggering and I also figured out how to capture single trigger events which is very useful.

@Frostfly Жыл бұрын

I was told once that the hardest software to learn is the second one. (in reference to CAD in my case) once you get used to something you get frustrated when it's not where you expect.

@stevesether Жыл бұрын

Well... the problem Adrian's is experiencing is largely that this software doesn't comply with current norms of UI expectations. You'd expect you can just "zoom in" on an element, because that's how most other software is. The current model for any visual element is to treat it like a physical object with the ability to change things right on the object rather than having to go into an obscure menu somewhere. When it doesn't behave like that, people say it's "non-intuitive". In other words, intuition is built upon how you've experienced other software. If suddenly everyone has the little gear icon in a UI and it represents settings, then that becomes intuitive. If a designer expects you to do everything backwards from the way everyone else does it, that's not a great UI design.

@mrfrenzy. Жыл бұрын

@@stevesetherThere is good open source software for VDS1022 so I guess Owon doesn't spend time improving the official software for this old scope. The official VDS6104 software is quite good, zooming, right clicking etc on wave form and channel levels works as expected.

@stevesether Жыл бұрын

@@mrfrenzy. I couldn't find anything that looked like the UI was fully OSS. From what I can tell the software on Github in Adrians link is largely compiled Java classes pulled from the EXE, combined with firmware pulled from the EXE. Is their some OSS software for this I'm missing, or is the Java UI source available? the only java source in that Guthub repo is a small wrapper for a C library that interfaces the USB.

@eDoc2020 Жыл бұрын

@@stevesether I don't think using an unmodified scroll wheel to zoom is intuitive. On the other hand, using the scroll wheel over a value is expected to change that value. If the scroll wheel is to zoom in the waveform I would expect you to need modifier keys. Probably one key for horizontal and one for vertical.

@markussteinbacher8807 Жыл бұрын

hi Adrian, great video. You tell in the video that the old Rev. A is not 100% compatible and some rework has to be done? Is there a YT video showing the mods ?

@rtechlab6254 Жыл бұрын

My new bench meter is an Owon, its in my APC UPS video and I really like it. Holds up well to my calibrated TTI

@jasonfranz2818 Жыл бұрын

The keyboard shortcuts for adjusting the horizontal and vertical scales make this scope much easier to use. At 11:31 in the video the “tips” menu in the Owon software has a tab for these. It takes less than 1 minute to learn them. Florentbr’s version is better, and has even more keyboard shortcuts. Newark/Farnell also sell versions under their Multicomp Pro brand. They are usually more expensive, but sometimes are on sale. I picked up the non-isolated version from Newark for $56 US in early January.

@snafu2350 Жыл бұрын

So, as usual, RTFM applies :)

@Pixelwaster Жыл бұрын

Reminds me of the Jonny Cash song about his Cad, " ...got it one piece at a time, didn`t cost me a dime" It was a 1960 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 automobile.

@memadmax69 Жыл бұрын

I have this scope and it works on a mac and linux, software and method to get it working is a little more involved. Turns out the software is Java based, and all you have to do(from what I can remember) is install Java for MacOS, run the executable for windows. The only real hard part is getting the USB working which wasn't hard on my 2021 M1 imac, which has a stubborn USB in its own right. Otherwise, once you get the software up n running, the scope is great for basic stuff as shown in the vid. I hope this info is helpful for a fellow mac/linux user. Edit: I had no issues getting zoom to work with mouse on this.

@nancyosborne-webb646 9 ай бұрын

Great scope .. on time and packed well. Did I mention Great scope

@ChristopherSibert Жыл бұрын

Love the TRS-80 (Model 4?) in the background, that was the first computer I had growing up, I taught myself BASIC on it 🙂

@Renville80 Жыл бұрын

At work, when we need to remove epoxy, we use a heat gun which softens it up enough to let us get an Xacto knife or pointed implement under the epoxy and lift it off.

@markmonson573 4 ай бұрын

I have one of these scopes, and I agree that it is very capable for a reasonable price. It found the problem I was looking for in a 675kB/s RS485 system with no difficulty.

@robertwoodliff5622 Жыл бұрын

Keep up the good work ... Regards Bob ( London UK )

@charlesbruneski9670 Жыл бұрын

Maybe the infinite persistence setting has a limit to the number of traces it can store. When that counter wraps around, it would overwrite the previous traces stored there. It looked like the major signal got quite bright, and the signals that happened less frequently would disappear after a while.

@patprop74 Жыл бұрын

Cheers Adrian.

@jamessowles4332 Жыл бұрын

I would like to see you take another look at that board and do all the mods that would be very interesting

@TrinomCZ Жыл бұрын

Hi Adrian, is this scope UI able to record traces? I'm looking for some cheaper option to PicoScope :)

@markae0 Жыл бұрын

Great warning on isolated ground!

@wtmayhew 29 күн бұрын

I have the Owon HDS2012S battery operated scope meter with signal generator which is “isolated.” The meter section is definitely isolated from the CPU and USB-C data connector by using a transformer isolated power supply between sections to bridge power. The meter talks to the CPU through opto isolators. The Oscilloscope BNC jacks are plastic and have a metal ring on the inside to contact the fingers on the BNC plug. Obviously, a metal BNC plug is going to be potentially live if whatever it is plugged into is live, so no isolation there. If one uses the included X10 probe which has a plastic outer shell plug, then yes, whatever you are working on will not put voltage on the outer barrel of the probe, a nice feature. An Ohm meter check confirms that the rings inside the BNCs, calibrator ground and USB-C shell are all connected together. Summary: The HDS-2102S meter section is truly isolated. The HDS-2102S oscilloscope section BNCs’ outer shells are isolate your fingertips when using the X10 probe, but the ‘scope is not isolated from ground if you plug something into the USB-C or clip the calibrator to ground. Owon is a little more expensive than similar Chinese budget test equipment, but the quality is better and worth the slight extra cost.

@HammondDirk Жыл бұрын

Thanks for posting these kind of reviews, they're helpful. When I would stumble upon the limits of my old analogue scope (I prefer them actually because of the direct modification of any setting using hardware knobs) I might want to dig in one of these. Would be nice though when they would also work on Linux and macOS... Do you have any idea if it would also work that well (fast) on a very old Win XP PC?

@DoubleMonoLR Жыл бұрын

Another person has posted information regarding installing the linux & mac software.

@generessler6282 3 ай бұрын

Haha. A software guy here. The GUI environment used for the interface defaults to handling mouse clicks in the "current window," which in this case is the last one where interaction happened. Handling at top level as you wish is certainly possible, but requires fiddly extra effort. I guess they haven't done that. Thanks for a great pointer. Was looking for a usable cheap scope. Guess I'll give this a try.

@bobsbarnworkshop7542 Жыл бұрын

Adrian, I know the interface frustrates you, maybe because it isn’t more standardized but from working in industry (Westinghouse and Kodak), every time we purchased a new sophisticated piece of test equipment, they all had complex unusual interfaces and a long learning curve. I think this little oscope is very capable, you just have to get over the hump in the learning curve! Great review! I think you had a predecessor like yourself who modded up that gen 1 c64! Another thought, I’ve never used a SW based scope like this, so learning the interface would seem “normal” to me!

@SidneyCritic Жыл бұрын

Yeah it's kind-of annoying. People think everything should work the way they know, but there is no rule that says every same category software HAS work the same. You can't even jump from EDAs without learning the others first, unless you want to be super inefficient, ie, slow. I watched a 1hr KiCAD vid and knew more than EEVblog fumbling around for 4hrs saying KiCAD was rubbish, when he didn't even know it. Basically, if it's a different program, it's going to have a different way to do things, ie, RTFM beforehand - lol -. I would laugh if this SW could do everything he wanted using shortcut keys, just because he didn't look up help - lol -.

@mrfrenzy. Жыл бұрын

@@SidneyCritic I agree that you for sure should spend time learning new test gear, however there is no excuse for not making the software easier by leaving user inputs unused. For example with the mouse pointer above the waveform the mouse wheel should do SOMETHING, having it do NOTHING is just lazy programming. The same goes for the right and left mouse buttons when hovering over different things. I have the VDS6104 and it's great, in fact they have already fixed all the things mentioned in there, you can scroll on the waveform, right click and drag the waveform, right click the channel markers to reset etc etc.

@SidneyCritic Жыл бұрын

@@mrfrenzy. Conventual is better, because if you don't use unconventual for a long time you forget how to use it, but there could be reasons why it isn't conventual, eg, they just don't know. Just looking at the manual there are shortcut keys. ADB should've read the manual - lol -.

@MarvinWestmaas Жыл бұрын

@@mrfrenzy. It seems there are quite some keyboard shortcuts though, but this implies they want you to use both the mouse, keyboard and lead with 3 hands.... idk how that works?

@MarvinWestmaas Жыл бұрын

@@SidneyCritic Yeah I commented and linked to the file showcasing them just before.

@EveGantian Жыл бұрын

Hi Adrian, is it me or is there a break in one of the tiny tracks where the flux is, visible at 32:27 approx? Great video btw

@jfloydsea Жыл бұрын

I'm an Atari guy but I always enjoy your videos!

@pa4tim Жыл бұрын

I am glad you not only show toy scopes (but I am not an Owen fan) The scope is the eye of the electronics repair person, that is why it is my most expensive bit of kit. I use a R&S 300 MHz scope. Beside that an isolated scope meter from siglent, not a bad scope but the UI is bad, triggering is pretty good and rhat is very important . A scope is nice but a lot of uers have no clue how to use it. Fine for checking ripple on power rails but you can do so much more

@DerekWitt Жыл бұрын

I see that TRS-80 Model III in the background. It would be hilarious if you had a Rick Roll animation playing on the screen! Lol

@video99couk Жыл бұрын

This looks like what I need for when I need to show waveforms on my KZfaq channel. It's not going to be as capable as my Tektronix bench 'scope but for a lot of signals it's quite good enough.

@Bianchi77 3 ай бұрын

Nice video, thanks:)

@nathanfredette 8 ай бұрын

This isn't about the content of the video, but every time I watch one of your (very amazing, long time viewer, big time fan, love your stuff) videos when it gets to the intro I expect a skip button to appear because it's so iconic it's logged in my mind as television.

@ImeanFFS 5 ай бұрын

Have you had any luck with the trigger hold-off? No matter what value i set, it always triggers immediately? I have the VDS1022i for my little projects, and despite the software, its great.

@jeffro. Жыл бұрын

Adrian, I always get transfixed watching you're videos! I really enjoy them, it brings back memories of tracing through circuits to figure them out, back when I was learning how digital circuits work. But please explain: what is a "bodge" wire? Is that a regional term? Where does it come from?! I couldn't understand what you were saying, it's a good thing you made that post where you spelled it out otherwise I would never know! Thanks n advance.... 👌👍

@davidgunther8428 Жыл бұрын

I the back of my mind I'm thinking about this C64 compared to a Raspberry Pi Pico for a project. Astounding how things have changed in 40 years, while some things still similar or at least recognizable. 😃

@SteveHacker Жыл бұрын

Love it! Any more Atari STs on the to-do list?

@ruediix Жыл бұрын

Commodore 64s are so great for testing osciloscopes because of their normally "dirty" signals with well defined patterns from the passives that are designes specifically for targeted mitigation of the noise, bounces and other behavior instead of complete nullification found in some other systems. They also have a variety of frequencies inside.

@martinmeijerman4131 Жыл бұрын

Another advantage of an isolated scope is that it allows measurement of differential signals. This would otherwise require 2 probes/channels to measure both single ended signals...

@eDoc2020 Жыл бұрын

I will need to (partly) disagree with you. Even with an isolated oscilloscope you want the ground probes to be connected to an RF ground, otherwise the shielding becomes a giant antenna. For sensitive signals that could be a problem.

@martinmeijerman4131 Жыл бұрын

@@eDoc2020 I agree, it really depends on the situation. Had a use cases in mind such as RS48/CAN or voltage transitions over components where the frequencies aren’t that high. As usual in electronics, you need to your wits….

@belzebub16 Жыл бұрын

Great video as always, hopefully this will get an open source treatment as well, seeing how good/capable the hardware is. Also looking forward to the live stream 😊

@adriansdigitalbasement Жыл бұрын

A few people already mentioned this open source software does exist! So I'll need to do another repair with this software: github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022

@iamdarkyoshi Жыл бұрын

@@adriansdigitalbasement Can't wait to see a follow up :)

@ddexd Жыл бұрын

@@adriansdigitalbasement The Github version adds mouse scroll wheel zoom on the time/div. Lastly, there is android application called HScope that supports the VDS1022 with an on the go cable. So a phone or tablet that supports OTG can run the Owon VDS1022.

@GutBombTech Жыл бұрын

@Simr Khera patreon

@brianspencer6397 4 ай бұрын

It also works very well on a not-too-old touchscreen point of sale terminal.

@arnebajse2214 Жыл бұрын

Most of the ui related problem you had are easy to solve by using the keyboard shortcuts. (Change timebase,v/div,trigger,) And all the triggering are done in hardware. The scope has an FPGA that handles that

@ruediix Жыл бұрын

The A to A controller would be because the device is technically a switched mode microcontroller board, and can be configured as a host or a client device. However, it should just use Micro-C for this. USB-C mini would also be an option, but that was phased out with USB 3.0 and was even rare before then. (It's a modified USB Mini connector with an additional pin and a slightly different shaped shield. I actually have an adapter that came with my printer's set of 3 inch adapters for hooking up any and every USB camera in existance.)

@bobsobol Жыл бұрын

I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to pop an OpAmp inline with that luma bodge wire, with a clean 5v comparison to make the luma / chroma usable?

@danman32 Жыл бұрын

Regarding isolation, even with low DC you might have a problem if you want to probe in reference to something other than ground. Not usually something you'd do but sometimes you need to.

@ThisRandomUsername Жыл бұрын

Good point. I've found it useful to probe some circuits that have low-side switches in their power circuits and the scope would be bypassing that switch entirely and causing the circuit to always be on. I've also got some isolated TTL UART to USB adapters my company made for our test jigs. Very useful.

@rj.parker Жыл бұрын

Not really a problem when the usb side is isolated. At that point it is the same as a battery scope or even a multimeter. What you can't do is probe two different points with different reference commons.

@sx64man Жыл бұрын

Adrian, that same 4066 fault weirdness also occurs with the diagnostic on sx-64s occasionally, probably some sort of intermittent timing issue.

@jocool7370 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for reviewing this kind of products. Would this sort of osciloscope be suitable for audio/amplifier repairs?

@serpent213 Жыл бұрын

Yes.

@stevestover2406 Жыл бұрын

I own a VDS1022I and I find it very useful... I guess now I need to go grab a copy of the open source software and check it out ;-)

@bennguyen1313 Жыл бұрын

Any thoughts on Digilent's Analog Discovery 2 USB-based oscilloscope?

@elsaarmstrong-zp6ng 4 ай бұрын

Can you use it on switch mode psu’s with a hot ground primary power section?

@horusfalcon Жыл бұрын

When you get a chance, see if you can dock/undock all the mini-windows at the bottom. It may be possible to dock the menus you were using.

@mashrien Жыл бұрын

For a lot of apps like that, sometimes you have to hold control/shift when scrolling the mousewheel to select the type of zoom you're after (eg; zoom, scroll, etc)

@Blitterbug Жыл бұрын

Was kinda yelling at Adrian about this - though it's possible he tried it without saying

@mashrien Жыл бұрын

@@Blitterbug either way, he sold me on getting that as my ideal oscilloscope for any kind of work that I end up doing. Pair that with a $250 HP netbook and you're golden (netbook, not a Chromebook. Runs full fat Windows 10)-- 128 gig eMMC ssd soldered to the main board, 4-8 gigs of RAM, and a dual core i3, little 13-in screen, but it does 1080, I own two of them and they are fantastic little on-the-go machines

@mashrien Жыл бұрын

One of my favorite things about those HP netbooks is their keyboards, you would think it's some squishy cheap piece of shit, but it's actually really satisfying to type on. Much better than my $3,500 razer blade pro's keyboard for sure.

@robb233 Жыл бұрын

How cool would it be if the NTSC mode captured a rendered a single screen of output?

@MrMartinSchou Жыл бұрын

Are W, T, D and S not shortcuts to cycle through the settings in the bottom right corner?

@chewielewie6564 Жыл бұрын

I'm looking for a decent handheld oscilloscope that will troubleshoot issues with 12 vdc communication daisy chains. It needs to show on the screen issues with the sign wave and or high voltage. interference. Any recommendations will be appreciated.

@adamfrandsen 4 ай бұрын

In audio we often use 2xUSB A to 1 USB for separating data and power streams

@markteague8889 3 ай бұрын

27:00 For Christmas of 1982, there were many defective units coming off the production line. They were storing those in tractor trailer trucks in the parking lot; however, some of them were actually shipped as the folks picking up the trailers were either not informed that they were filled with defective units. Or, they were purposely shipped just to get the product under the tree for Christmas Morning with the expectation that customers would return them later for replacement. So, I suspect that this unit was a warranty return to Commodore who might have replaced them with working units and serviced the defective units as time permitted over the following couple of years.

@billmiller4800 Жыл бұрын

Half of your complaints are based on not using multiple channels. Having to hover over a setting based on the channel makes more sense when there are more channels visible. Rolling your scroll-wheel in the grid when showing multiple channels would be an exercise in annoyance of guessing which channel would be adjusted. It's not perfect, but would work for up to 6 channels with no changes (a requirement for cheap software). And you get what you pay for :) If I needed a scope like this, I would buy this one

@dieSpinnt Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video and showing off this little bugger, Adrian:) Suggestion: Always use your google-fu with the keywords + "community software" ... as an insider tip. Oh and even better: Do that BEFORE you buy such a soapbox, hehehe:) (Not directed at you. You obviously made a product review. But to the other clueless ones out there, including me:P)

@pcwrangler09 Жыл бұрын

Saving the waveform is actually really useful. You save it and use it on a signal generator to reproduce the same waveform.

@jazzdirt Жыл бұрын

As a modular synth user... I see the value in that...

@RogerBarraud Жыл бұрын

Good point.

@calholli 8 ай бұрын

Also you can save waveforms and give them to the customer with receipts-- if you are using it for repair work.

@aaronschocke2147 17 сағат бұрын

*laughs in Serum* 😂@@jazzdirt

@camelCased Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the review. I got myself a Loto Instruments scope, pretty good hardware wise but the software is almost as terrible (or even more so) as Owon - no zooming with the mouse, and when it triggers, you have to click on thumbnails of some kind of "capture frames" to find past single triggers. Ok, it's nice to have past single trigger events recorded, but often you have to use scrollbars in those thumbnails to zoom and pan to get the trigger focused in the main area. It's as if these developers don't know what a scroll wheel is. I guess I'll have to buy a Picoscope if I want to have a solid USB scope with good software.

@Mr.BrownsBasement Жыл бұрын

I recall a TTL shortage in the mid-80s. It's possible that even Commodore was having trouble sourcing some of the chips it needed and was getting them from various sources, including old stock…

@MrDuncl 5 ай бұрын

Are the inputs isolated from each other. back in the 1980s the company I worked for spent a small fortune on a "Powerscope" that could do that for use in PSU fault finding. Most of the time we just used it as a front end for an HP Digitising scope which was equally expensive back then.

@Jody_VE5SAR Жыл бұрын

2/3's thumbs up. Not a ringing endorsement, but not a death knell either. 🙂

@turbinegraphics16 Жыл бұрын

Very interested in being able to measure each line of the video signal, I'm thinking of creating a video mod so it could be useful.

@paulchamberlain7942 5 ай бұрын

I would like to add some feedback from the perspective of someone who knows nothing about oscilloscopes, but is at the point where considering acquiring such a device to further knowledge and capability. First, I have gained the intuition that this two part solution, the sampling device and computer, is the future for enthusiasts. Only the software holding this evolution back. Second, by reviewing such a device using actual use case and practical example, you provide an oscilloscope fundamentals tutorial with key areas that stuck in my memory model way better than just working principle in theory alone could have done. Thank you, and I hope this feedback is of value when considering the impact of such enthusiast videos as yours on your viewers. Definitely learned a few things today.

@reedyd Жыл бұрын

23:15 Are we sure there are no keyboard modifiers to the mouse wheel/drag, like Shift / Ctrl / Alt or some combination thereof to get Zoom, etc?

@adriansdigitalbasement Жыл бұрын

Yeah I tried everything -- at least everything logical :-)

@mrfrenzy. Жыл бұрын

@@adriansdigitalbasement try pressing M :)

@johncoops6897 Жыл бұрын

You have to read the Instruction Manual rather than randomly "trying things".

@twocvbloke Жыл бұрын

That Rev.A board certainly has a nice look to it, just seemed to have a much cleaner look than the later bards, even the 250466 in my 64c looks more "messy" in comparison, even if it's technically a "better" board... :)

@InXLsisDeo Жыл бұрын

It's strange, because I've seen another video on the VDS6102A (channel Simple Electronics) with the same software and the reviewer could zoom in with the mouse wheel on the graph area. Perhaps you were using an older version of the software ?

@Muldrf Жыл бұрын

My Rev A has the same Video modification. The Chroma Luma video works on it, I don't know if there was more to it than just the jack mod and wires which are done in a very similar way on mine. Maybe there is a portion of the mod that wasn't completed on the one you have? It is also a bit of an odd board otherwise. I think someone cared about it at one point, but it had been mistreated in the years before I got it. I may be mistaken, but I believe that board doesn't pass the Composite video through the RF Modulator. Ray Carlsen has a fix for R10 to bring the video level up on that model board, as you mentioned it was light. It is cool seeing another of those boards with the video mod. To bad it doesn't seem to work properly on yours.

@SimonEllwood Жыл бұрын

Sounds like it would be good to get to the bottom of the chroma luma mod.

@sofaltiv Жыл бұрын

adrian, where did you get the lab pc with the ryzen cpu? i do not think, that it is the one that you showed in a video where you changed out your lab pc .... at least it was not a video that a non patreon can see ...

@FluffyTheGryphon Жыл бұрын

I have an odd question. I've got an old classroom Hitachi v-212 that was given to me many moons ago. Would you consider any of these scopes to be a good upgrade from that?

@patbutete1722 Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't have thought so.Analogue scopes do things totaly different to Digital ones. Keep both.