Yeah, it seems like the tip had 35x job posting than now, while it's "just" about 4x

The chart doesn't need to start at zero, we just have the relative change within that window, which is what is relevant

@@aaronbrown3820 That's not how our predominantly visual brains work (see advertising, etc.).

The data was not reported pre Covid

@@aaronbrown3820 it doesn't even show the relative change within that window good

"index" should have given that away though yeah? Nothing was misrepresented or misleading about it

Also let's keep in mind that these are job postings (demand). It doesn't say anything about the increased number of applicants (supply). The graph in the end should be quite a bit higher than 100 to have the same chances as in pre-covid (let's say ~130). Instead it is at ~70 right now.

As aurora said, this is indexed so postings more then doubled after 2020 and then dropped again to baseline

It says right on the chart index 2020=100. Statistics require a little bit of effort and education from the reader. This is clearly not misrepresentation but a standard way of showing time series.

it's only misrepresentation if you turn your brain off and don't read it

100% this, the US government changed the law and now companies don't get a 90% tax return for Developer Salaries anymore, so companies stopped over hiring and started firing, I was victim of that at the beginning of this year.

[10 hours of fart sounds - 4k 720i]

Top comment

People seem to forget that the pandemic kicked every economy in the world on its butt. Supply shocks were EVERYWHERE! Everything ground to a halt, you couldn't find basic products on the shelves, travel vanished. IT WAS AN EPIC DISASTER!! So once a vaccine has been discovered, it made sense for central banks to pump out as much liquidity as possible. And nobody wants to be critical here, but they overdid it. Now, was it far better to overdo it than to underdo it - HELL YES! So we cranked down Covid unemployment. Now we're cranking down price instability. But sadly, that will cause unemployment to rise as hopefully the Fed can get us to a soft landing. Covid was real, people! I worry that I feel I need to remind people that we lost a million Americans! Covid was a more efficient & faster killer of Americans than Nazi Germany & Imperial Japan in WWII. Do the math. It was a horrendous tragedy.

Fed actually produced jobs and salary increase due to cheap credits

don't do leetcode. make a personal fullstack project with auth and RBAC, hash+salted passwords, and whatever frontend tech you like. those are core concepts to internal enterprise apps and will get you wayyyyy further than leetcode.

Maybe you try something else 🤔

Keep hitting, you will get it!

Trades?

I'm thankful for "the rule of 55" on 401-Ks. I will just temporarily retire. Wake me when things get back to sanity.

At the moment most folks don't have either.

My personal anecdote is the position is much more important than your ability in terms of job security.

It is cyclical but with an even stronger upwards trend. Hiring in tech has grown massively over the past 20 years.

@@wealthassistant And don't forget the annual: "This time it is over for real, you just don't understand! it is different this time!" I guess having these type of normie loonies who think they are experts just shows how established the field is. It is so big that it has now included the "the end is near"-loonies for decades

@wealthassistant And don't forget the annual: "This time it is over for real, you just don't understand! it is different this time!" I guess having these type of normie l00nies who think they are experts just shows how established the field is. It is so big that it has now included the "the [game over] is near"-l00nies for decades.

yup, hm, getting thruogh the censorship is getting hard.

No it’s not look at jobs total on fred

To be fair, the spike still would be pretty high. But yea, starting at 0 is still always better.

I really don't like these kinds of graphics as they ruin my intuition of the data.. (as intended)

The fred chart is indexed and it’s not uncommon to cut these off since 100 is the baseline for comparison

If you read economic time series in almost any country, they are represented as this. With an index normalizing the time series to 100. 0 will be more confusing since the start is not at 0. On the other hand, to make the graph more readable you divide it by the starting value *100 at each time point. You could use 1 as the base line but not 0 (or at least that is harder to). Scaling the graph to include 0 is sometimes a point, but waste a lot of space. Once you know that you always should check the baseline it is not a problem. If the change is not relatively big then including 0 would make it less readable. I don't think this is a problem as long as you remember to check for baseline.

The “get more money” statement is so insensitive and privlidge. Like we’re not fucking trying. Gfy

You can get an extension that replaces clickbait video thumbnails and titles with less clickbait versions (sourced from the community).

DeArrow

Hell will freeze when people finally understand why he uses clickbait titles and thumbnails and stop complaining about it

Theo didn't make the KZfaq algo.... And Theo didn't take the bait for you.

​ @Sparronator9999 Thank you very much for the recommendation!

This hits the nail right on the head

You are spot on.

You are spot on.

It's an endless cycle..

Still though I as a developer don't really feel like I have a moral right to try and keep the supply of developers constrained. There is so much more software that people want made and that could be useful than there are people who are qualified to make it.

My advice is don't apply to the jobs that have been re-posted for months. Those are fake adds to advertise the company. The company I work at also posted the job of a team leader multiple months even though we already knew who was gonna get it internally. My 2nd advice is also don't work for free, lol why would you build something for them for free and expect to get hired? That's like me asking a painter to paint my room and after he's done doing it I'm not "hiring" him.

The software engineering market is screwed right now. Don’t put the tech market as a whole in there

@@navis462 you're naive

@@Methodo-ny6zrI feel bad for the SWE. At least if qualified it’s not impossible to get a cyber position..

@@navis462 product managers, product owner, customer success blabla, tech sales, devops, recruiters, HR, cybersecurity etc etc, it's all the same

Stop with this AI is gonna replace everything doom posting, its quite possible LLMs have peaked. And the use cases are cases where it won't make you much money

@@Coconinga You should prepare for the worst, not hope things will get better. AI or not, the entry level job market is fucked and will be for some time.

"You got it boss" - Programmer man Sam (Altman)

The AI this prompt sucks hire a SWE

Nick Land said this last year, iirc

World's first fully automated company. AI CEO to AI Workers. Shareholders required.

Germany is quite diferent, almost nobody speaks german and the market isnt also that attractive.

@@markusmachel397 yep same with France, i get harassed by recruiters, i feel like living in a parallel dimension from you guys

based ngl

I like your take but I think it'd be silly to not acknowledge the fact there has been a steady decline in software engineering jobs and the job market has become a lot more competitive. I remember when people could find a software engineering within 3 months of focusing on the basics. Those days are long gone. You really have to stand out and be creative doing your job search.

@@tylerbenton4495 oh come on bro. There was never a time where you can just learn for 3 months from youtube tutorials and courses and land yourself a good job. Were there people who did it? Yes, but it was not the majority. Im not saying things are perfect now, I’m just saying we all should stop being a part of this “online programming community” because only thing that this community thrives on is fear mongering, toxicity in the form of “you’re not competent enough” and a few memes. That’s it. My point is just to reflect ourselves and see if we actually need to be the part of this space? What good does it bring?

​@@Shari_Tejp That's false. There was indeed a time where one could land a developer job if they went hard on the basics, built a projects, a portfolio site, and consistently applied to jobs, as you've admitted by contradicting yourself. Stating an objective fact isn't fear mongering. The job market is significantly worse than it was a few years back. Also, what you've said sounds like a personal problem. No one is forcing you to watch the video and be part of the online community but the fact still stands that the job market isn't where it was.

@@tylerbenton4495 I did not contradict myself at any point in my answer. So discussing with you will lead to nothing if you can’t stick to the basic text understanding logic. But regardless i appreciate your answer, have a nice one :)

What’s the logic in that? The logic is that there is less money for headcount when loans are more expensive.

@@gregtaylor9806 Technically you are right but the question was more like: what's the logic in having a system that lets this happen? In a loop...

There's an argument for people to be wise, and save money when you can earn for times when you can't earn. Good times won't last forever, and it helps if you live in a way that sees you through the lean years.

Eh.. I have been a PHP programmer for the last 15 years. I still program the way I learnt in University. Only now I got the point where everyone is asking super high tech things like Laravel and kubernetes everywhere.

Just like any other job/sector out there, you compete against other 100+ people for 1 job (which might be a fake job posting due to regulations) and certain markets can be over saturated thus decreasing the value and increasing the requirements. Now you're no longer comparing yourself to your class mates, now you're competing against people from your country or from all over the world who might be older and have more experience etc. Timing, luck, networking, ability to sell yourself (lie) and how likable you are can also play a factor. Getting feedback from senior devs can also help figure out what else you need to improve on to become better than others.

I think so. If you are waiting, you just want to leverage an AI framework, you're not in it. All of this AI gen subscription we see now is simply funding the real deal in the background... for later. AI is use your data, resource, assets, to make an otherwise difficult decision. A neural network framework for data analysis and dashboard. Pick any real business process, but not the internet scraping AI gen the consumer sees now. Nvidia saw an opportunity because the PC aftermarket is priced out, over-produced, and slumped. This is all testbed and virgin, but if you don't code at the bottom of this, you won't know if there's any payoff in the high carbon footprint. Otherwise, it's just a discretionary hardware sale right now.

Same, now just hobby

This is kind of where I think I'm heading sadly. I'd like to get an engineering job again, I just can't seem to find one that fits me or there are so many candidates that end up getting picked over me because of the volume of engineers nowadays.

So how do you make money to live?

You're getting kinda ripped off though (as we all are really)

He is not getting ripped off. I live in Brazil and 35k usd is equivalent to roughly 170-180k in our local currency. There aren’t many local companies paying that much around here. We all want to find work outside of our country because it’s the same type of work we do here, but you get payed 5x more. Same with any other country that the local currency’s buying power is way less than the usd. For people in the US and EU for example, you guys can’t find work outside your country and make 5x what you currently make. Your company will happily take an engineer over you that will accept half what you make. And for that engineer he is still getting at the least a competitive salary for what’s available in his country.

We are already getting teams in Argentina. They are good devs too.

35k??? wtf I live in Mexico and as a sr dev I don't accept less than 84k a year... don't sell yourself that cheap.

@@chicao4896 wtf, if he is a Senior engineer he is getting riped off hard. He can make the same in Brazil and if you count the benefits it is even more. Dont accept less than 70k usd...

Yes, in particular, when one company has a real position. There might be five recruitment companies who copy the same position in order to get a referral fee. This messes up with the numbers.

Were you applying to big tech?

yes, why would you let a non certified electrician work on home installations?

​@@MrBlackspoonWhere im from, if you work in a trade for a couple of years, you don't need any extra formal training to get the government certification that you are officially trained to do the job. You need to pass a single test and "that's it". Anyone with 25 years of experience would be able to ace that test with a few weeks of studying. So why not a Dev?

@@MrBlackspoon because it's illegal.

Most companies say degree + 5 yrs of experience or no degree but need 10+ yrs of experience. Since you have more than 10 yrs you should be fine

Yeah, I tell people this. China has millions and millions of unemployed engineers with better educations than those in the West. When they say the U.S. doesn't have enough engineers it is a lie. Basically big companies can hire cheap engineers from China and India. It is pointless to learn engineering as a person in the U.S. because you are too expensive in the global economy. They don't want U.S. engineers, studying it in school almost guarantees you will be worked hard for little gain.

@gruanger This is hysterically wrong. We’ve been told this by morons like you for 40 years now and China and India have still been unable to produce creative problem solvers like the US can. When all the software breaks in a year or two from being created and maintained by $25/hr offshore devs and AI, there will be a hiring boom in the us for people that can fix it. This stuff is cyclical and always has been. The cycle is driven by greedy managers thinking they’re more valuable than the tech workers and trying to replace them with cheap labor. I abandoned real engineering and went into software because of that. Nuclear engineers were paid $50k out of college. Now it’s double because oops we need creative problem solvers.

I doubt you can get a better education in a country where you can't even study history properly because of the censorship

@@notMattGarska From a quick search: "In terms of conventional academic metrics, China’s education system outperforms that of the United States. A 2019 study of 15-year-olds in each country found that Chinese youth outperform American students in nearly every educational category, with an especially pronounced gap in math."

​@@gruangeryes but not every company is looking for remote devs.

lol

Yeah, because you have 17 years experience. lol

Devops is extremely different than programming. This issue is with programming. Devops is very much on the rise.

@@nagyzoli True, but it really helps to know how program as a DevOps person. Good thing I know how to program in lots of old and new modern programming languages. In DevOps I constantly have to be up to speed in modern technology.

What sector?

+

No, they're not lol. Your company hiring 8 devs means absolutely nothing to larger scale

@@oscarcharliezulu I'm guessing your management is simply more enlightened than others.

Great! Scale it up and try hiring 8 million now.

Best comment on this video

@@unatco6554 Thanks! I really appreciate the acknowledgement! 😇

Went hunting for this number, looks closer to 300k. There are currently 1.2 million students learning CS & IT in India from the numbers I found :)

China graduates millions of engineers and has millions unemployed right now, I am not speaking software engineers only but still, U.S. companies don't want U.S. citizens to learn engineering, there are plenty of foreigners to hire right now.

Number of graduates ≠ Good number of engineers / developers

@@t3dotgg debunked but yes more population of young people in India so more graduates

Maybe we shouldn't keep telling people to do software , there are tons of other fields that actually need people

you are easily replaceable. never get too comfortable sucking their boots. also never be loyal to corporations. they are not your family.

@@jurassicthunder it's a state job with a union protection, they can't just fire me but i understand your sentiment.

congrats!! I'm happy for you! Hope my luck turns around too

@@SuperKOT9595 thank you! sending good vibes your way :)

@@einnorw thank you 😊

I graduated at 29 in another industry and began learning dev at 32, now 34 with no luck at all so far but I'm nowhere near giving up. It may take me another year or two even if the economy doesn't recover but thankfully I genuinely love learning and building this stuff, it's naturally replacing video games for me which has probably been my greatest addiction. The previous version of myself would have already given up due to the economy, being too old, etc but I've decided that nothing is going to stop me. I have a mostly low-stress job to pay the bills that I will not drop until I find a dev job thankfully.

Holy shit I've noticed and internalised all these points for such a long time. It's so satisfying to have someone else externalise them

Money. Money is the answer. As much as it's "fun" to engineer solutions to "problems". These companies think about money. Would having a dark mode bring Amazon 10% higher revenue? I'd bet a hefty sum it would make absolutely zero impact on the numbers they care about. For this same reason these multi million dollar business will allocate zero budget to bugfixing, they want engineers to shit out new features, because those have potential to bring in more money. And even if we were to talk about an internal product, where no money changes hands, managers still value new things over stability (as it should always be), so unless something straight up stops working, they will always create new feature requests, but will never care about making it perfect.

@@ItsUhMeIbraheem Why thank you. 🫂

@@JanVerny And you're 100 % correct. Amazon has all the means in the world to make and maintain a dark mode, but they probably decided that all the investments that are going to be required to make the same user stories they've crafted so well in dark mode (what about pictures, for example) are currently not cost-effective. So the true issue here is that all of the work we see that needs to be done and that could be handled easily by a well-led team of junior engineers, which could kickstart their careers and lead them to become valuable seniors down the line, is just not worth the expense for individual companies in the short term. It could and would be worth it in the long term in terms of nurturing new senior developers, but what guarantee do individual companies have that these seniors would stay and that a company would not have created a senior that would later defect to a competitor? None. This is fucked up. And it just come back down to what Theo alluded to. If you're a junior dev who wants a job, you need to be friends with the person that will give you that job. That has become your best selling point right now.

No one will talk about the massive offshoring and H1Bs, especially influencers like this that need to still shill.

Because you are the outsourcing destination now.

uk devs working for less than $80k lol. when i looked at jobs there i scoffed , you can work admin in Australia for more money than a dev in the UK

@@webapple1 You sure you don't mean £80k? Most people I know are in the £90-110k range and they're not anywhere near the top dogs. The UK has a lot of one-man-bands or people doing short term contracts. There is serious serious money involved.

@@philadams9254 why am i looking at job postings literally right now in the Uk for £32k , £38k , £42k .... £42k is $80k... on even had a range of £25k - £35k , wtf is that . that was the majority when i was looking. while i don't work in the market , you might be one of those that get paid well and have friends as well who do , but seems a bit delulu to imply that the job postings are saying $80k but actually paying $100+ is normal when literally the first page is splashed with the ranges shown , it took 2 mins to get those numbers not even searching by numbers. I see why people run from the UK , the delusion there is real.

@@webapple1 senior developers get paid more than double that, with extra benefits such a private health cover and 20% bonus.

Your photo looks AI generated, your not real.

I'm coming from the other end of the experience spectrum but for you I would suggest maybe trimming some of your experience, the 25 years is probably working against, not for you. Maybe make it seem like you have 10-15 years of experience. Just a thought, I certainly can't get an interview myself either. Good luck

25 years as a software developer in the US and now you're 20k in the hole ? The maths dont math.

SWE is definitely here to stay. But it used to be that an average person could make crazy money in IT. I think in 5-10 years, there won't be any space for new average people to join and in 20 years you'll have to be exceptional to keep up. I am also expecting that eventually customers will eventually learn how software works and companies will be able to stop wasting so much manpower. I worked in warehouse automation, man you'd think these billion dollar companies would have the capacity to hire at least one person who knows what a computer is before they sign off on a deal. Alas having more money just means you can make poor decisions for longer.

The available pool of overseas developers is also increasing much faster than the pool in the US, and firms are finding it much easier to reach those overseas contractors. A lot of these laid off positions will get refilled by offshored labor.

@@needlebacklessons4950 That is luckily not the case here EU. I was at a company that occasionally hired programmers from poorer countries for smaller tasks we didn't have capacity for but that's about it. It's always the best if the development team can talk about things in standups. But maybe that's just me

No one will talk about the massive offshoring and H1Bs, especially influencers like this that need to still shill.

Unfortunately the market is still over saturated. Just look at any job posting. There are hundreds of ppl applying. Even if you would be a good developer, there are 99+ other ones that might have more experience or work for cheaper in another country. That's like going on a dating app and 100 guys competing for 1 girl... you're either the 1st or you won't even get to talk to her because she will be flooded with over choice... she can only pick 1.

@@klausebasounds like a dream life for a girl as many girls don’t have to work in a job, and the men come to them

No one will talk about the massive offshoring and H1Bs, especially influencers like this that need to still shill.

Why are you ignoring that the cost of living in those rural areas is drastically lower

No one will talk about the massive offshoring and H1Bs, especially influencers like this that need to still shill.

why don't you just....read???

@@PraiseYeezusThe title of this video "This can't be good…" OK, after 175ms it took to read that non-title, what are we supposed to read exactly?