This could cost $30,000 and End the Flying Season

Рет қаралды 102,871

10 ай бұрын

Had to make some hard decisions and find a new airplane.
Giveaways, 250+ back catalogue episodes +more at www.flightchops.com
In this episode we’re sharing the aftermath of the RV-14 being grounded due to a #PropStrike, and the pivot to salvage plans to #fly my first aerobatic competition.
Huge thanks to Adam and his family for lending me their RV-8. I had no time in that particular type when I got there to see it for the first time.
It was a rewarding challenge to push through the #adversity and make it happen.
Adam’s Channel:
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Ryan’s Sukhoi-26 crash episode:
• 74 Seconds: Engine Fai...
A great episode about the training leading up to this:
• Thinking Inside The Bo...
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I am a "weekend warrior" private pilot, I fly for fun with no intentions of going commercial. I have had my PPL for over 15 years, but still consider each flight a learning experience - I generally take detailed notes after each flight to remind myself what went well or what I could do to improve.... Having GoPro cameras to record flights like this is invaluable. I find these self analysis videos very helpful in my constant quest to improve, and am happy to share. Feedback is invited; however, please keep it positive.
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@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for all the support in the comments - there does seem to be some confusion about the definition of a prop strike though. Here is what the FAA has to say about it: Definition of Propeller Strike (i) For the purposes of this AD, a propeller strike is defined as follows: (1) Any incident, whether or not the engine is operating, that requires repair to the propeller other than minor dressing of the blades. (2) Any incident during engine operation in which the propeller impacts a solid object that causes a drop in revolutions per minute (RPM) and also requires structural repair of the propeller (incidents requiring only paint touch-up are not included). This is not restricted to propeller strikes against the ground. (3) A sudden RPM drop while impacting water, tall grass, or similar yielding medium, where propeller damage is not normally incurred. (j) The preceding definitions include situations where an aircraft is stationary and the landing gear collapses causing one or more blades to be substantially bent, or where a hanger door (or other object) strikes the propeller blade. These cases should be handled as sudden stoppages because of potentially severe side loading on the crankshaft flange, front bearing, and seal.

@JW-gb6hq 10 ай бұрын

I think the careful considerations and additional common sense decisions you are making regarding engine tear down are wise. You have answered most of your questions about engine teardown or not in this video. Every specific situation is unique. The FAA blanket wording doesn’t fit all scenarios. It’s your airplane and your 🫏. Do what you feel fits your specific safety needs.

@RWBHere 10 ай бұрын

Hmm... Google had unsubscribed me. Re-subscribed today.

@lorendjones 10 ай бұрын

Another example of the FAA's "one-size-fits-all" approach to regulations. Does a wood or composite prop react the same as a metal prop? In the gear collapse scenario, does a two-blade prop sitting at a 45 degree angle exert the same forces on an engine as a prop oriented vertically?

@anonymous-nobody1 10 ай бұрын

I don't know about the Canadian rules but the FAA DOES NOT mandate a tear down for a prop strike, speaking strictly for Lycoming engines there is a AD for a prop strike which is law and a mandatory service bulletin put out by Lycoming which does not carry the weight of law behind it. Read the AD carefully it says what must be done for a prop strike, but in a nut shell the accessory case needs to be removed and an inspection of the gear train needs to be performed along with replacement of the accessory drive bolt. Lycoming and their lawyers put out the service bulletin that requires a tear down for just about any damage to a propeller that can't be dressed out without regard to how it happened. I'm sure there are many planes flying today that have had prop strikes that met the Lycoming SB threshold for teardown but simply followed the FAA's published AD. My left engine suffered a prop strike when a taxi light hiding in snow was hit, the prop was replaced, the AD was followed and it ran 700+ more hours until it finally required an overhaul. The overhaul decision is not as black and white as Lycoming wants you to believe, you need to assess what the damage is and how it happened before jumping into a teardown.

@gsxr1kmatt 10 ай бұрын

Well researched here, Steve. Consult Mike Busch on this one, the call / consult will be worth your time and money. My bet is, prop wasn't turning, no chance of accessory drive damage. Check runout on the flange, new prop, fly. Sorry you have to deal with this man.

@owensparks5013 10 ай бұрын

Regarding the golf cart, I would have deemed it too close for missiles, so would have switched to guns!

@WhiteVaille 10 ай бұрын

The right answer, lmao. Meanwhile, I was thinking, if only planes had horns!

@pursueadventure 10 ай бұрын

Aw man so sorry to see this FlightChops! Adam is quite the guy!! Props to you Adam!

@sailingeric 10 ай бұрын

I am not a pilot but i enjoy offshore sailing and the Sirus weather info that feeds to our chartplotter, it has saved our butts a few times.

@SmittySmithsonite 10 ай бұрын

Sorry to hear of the prop strike! That really sucks! Great how the Av community stepped up and got you back in the game. What a fantastic group of people! Nice work, too, BTW, especially in an unfamiliar aircraft. Your skills are always impressive to watch! 👍👍

@LukePennerAerobatics 10 ай бұрын

Absolutely outstanding pivot the RV8 after you put your blood, sweat and tears into your training in the 14. Couldn’t be more proud of you, Steve ! 🙃👊🏻

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Greatly appreciated :)

@richardgreen6857 10 ай бұрын

Pity about the prop strike...it's already been said, and I read the pinned notation, but particularly when the equipment, like a composite prop on the aircraft is so easily damaged, there's no need for a teardown...run-out on the flange face tells you the whole story. There are so many regs that don't address (more properly - ignore) the modern materials and technology on new aircraft....hope you did well in the competition regardless!

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Thanks - and yeah - I'm happy with how it went - I'll share an episode about that soon.

@WhiteVaille 10 ай бұрын

Yeah, as a(n automotive) mechanic, and sometimes CNC operator, I think I'd agree on the decision there. I think I absolutely understand the over abundance of caution for wanting a full rebuild, but realistically, if I'm understanding correctly and it was just a bump in a hangar as things were being pushed around, then I would imagine it should be absolutely fine, so long as there's no change in flange runout in either axis, and presumably with a prescribed preload applied. Really frustrating - I still remember the videos of it getting installed and balanced, it wasn't that long ago was it?? - but hopefully should be easily remediated and back in the air soon. Also agree that in that process, it was best to at least give time to test it at home instead of just running it straight to comp. That way you can verify the new one has been installed and balanced properly, without being in a rush and overlooking any details.

@billbrisson 10 ай бұрын

Great video as always, I had a great time watching the competition. That Sukhoi was a BEAST! Adam and his family are just amazing people! so glad you got to fly.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Couldn't agree more! And glad we got to talk even if briefly. I was in "the zone" most of the time while there.

@tara.meikle 10 ай бұрын

The aerobatic community has got to be one of the best parts of aviation I have had the pleasure of being associating with. It was awesome to see how the community rallied around you to make sure you got to compete, and you did a great job adapting to a less than ideal situation. Bravo to you 👏🏻

@doerrmedia01 10 ай бұрын

Some great learning lessons here applicable to all pilots and really interesting content to watch! Keep up the great work!

@papawheelie5835 10 ай бұрын

It's actually surprising that there aren't many many more "hangar rash" incidents. This one seems to have occurred among some of the most astute and careful folks in all of aviation. Hopefully, it's lesson learned and back to business without what I term, Immense Expense. You did a great job in the RV8. It's a whole different animal and you transitioned very well.

@aviationgroupie1433 10 ай бұрын

Really great video Steve. Keep doing what you do! And thanks.

@VictoryAviation 10 ай бұрын

I’ve been watching you for several years. I cannot stress enough the tremendous quality of your content. The technical aspects of it are excellent. The story and pacing are still right on point. There’s no click bait. It’s truly a joy to watch. As I’m writing this, it’s Saturday morning. I hope you have great runs at the contest. I know you’ve worked super hard on this discipline. Thank you so much for for being such an inspiration to the aviation community through your efforts to share your aviation journey!

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

I really appreciate this feedback. It’s been harder and harder to get content to break through the algorithm. I’m fairly confident in my story telling ability, but the success of a video often largely depends on the title and thumbnail (my least favorite part of the creative process). So thanks a bunch for acknowledging that too.

@VictoryAviation 10 ай бұрын

@@FlightChops In all fairness, I’ve been subscribed for a long time, so I see notifications for every video that you release. But, have absolutely no doubt, the quality of your material is top tier. You ever think about doing a collab with someone outside the aviation community, like Destin from Smarter Every Day, or something of that sort? A cross over could pull fresh audiences. I’m sure you’ve already gone over all that. Just my humble idea. At any rate, hopefully the thumbnail and title picking become easier so you don’t have to spend too much time on the not fun parts.

@HE-162 10 ай бұрын

Not a pilot, but I liked what the guy said about flying with a watch, chart, and finger. There’s something special about operating a vehicle/machine of any type, completely analog. The introduction of electronics interrupts the man-machine connection, as well as the visceral nature of relying on exclusively ourselves to for information. There’s just something special about relying entirely on our senses, judgement, and mechanical gauges. It’s the reason people love pre-drivers aid cars, manual machine tools, film cameras, old motorcycles, and the list goes on. Obviously safety while flying is paramount and it makes sense to want as much info as possible, delivered as efficiently as possible, but it’s nice to hear there are people who prefer to do it the old fashioned way!

@goatflieg 10 ай бұрын

Cool to see this one after texting about the strike. I'll probably watch the raw footage on Patreon when I get the time. Glad you gave some feedback on switching to the RV-8; can't wait to pick your brain some more about your experience. Hell of a fastball/curve you had to catch; such a major change with short notice. I don't know how you do it, dude. BTW my first flight to CAM went well for 8/19 Burger Burn, including going back via DTW for customs. Highlight: Ron Holden got to see my RV-8! Been flying a LOT lately; some great experiences; photos and video piling up. Got my first loose formation flight and air-to-air photos; can't wait to get more. So much more to share; still want to go back to CAM on a Thursday or Friday so I can return to PTK. Keep me posted; I'll keep you posted.

@stephenrobinson8250 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for the video Steve. Lots of content to digest, well done. BTW, I would have landed too. Had the golf cart moved onto the runway, that would have been a different story.

@deanmiles3505 10 ай бұрын

Great video, I have had the chance to watch a few aircraft practice in an open box at Skyhaven airport in N.H. I have never seen what is involved though. Thank you for sharing. Take care, Be safe.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed seeing behind the scenes.

@elainethorne4344 10 ай бұрын

A big shout out to Brock for his terrific filming, especially loved the behind the scenes in the Corn Field, but seriously, well done! So proud of you Steve for being able to pivot and make the best of a disheartening situation!

@MikeKobb 10 ай бұрын

I'm not sure if I would have gone around or not. I would definitely have had a close eye on it, though. Sucks about the hangar rash. The only thing that feels worse than having somebody do that to your airplane is doing it to your own airplane. (Or maybe doing it to somebody else's!) As far as the teardown, I think your approach is suitably conservative given the prop material and the checks that you did. As you say, there are risks to the teardown as well, so it's a balancing act. Those are some pretty great folks to lend you their plane. 👍🏻

@Goody2414 10 ай бұрын

Good thing your experimental !!! Personally I would never take down a good engine for a non running prop damage .

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Totally!

@justcommenting4981 9 ай бұрын

1:48 Thought he was goofing around. I see he is actually going through the aerobatic routine. Quite elegant, like watching a martial artist.

@flyweldfabricate 10 ай бұрын

Sorry to hear about the prop strike! Hopefully there’s a way that doesn’t break the bank

@ChrisB257 10 ай бұрын

OMG Steve - that prop damaged sucks big time - although looking on the brighter side, at least not an engine running leading edge hit! Great that Adam let you use his RV, which at least avoided you having spent so much dedication with your aero practice to no avail! Seems you adapted really well to the different plane - major challenge. Can imagine how the cross country aspect is for sure the biggest stress for many.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Thanks Chris!

@Dreddip 10 ай бұрын

I just went though this, Hartzell 5 Blade on a PC-12 (PT6A-67P engine). Composite propeller, hit by a tug (not very hard but caused similar damage to what you had). Damage incurred about 2 weeks after the prop was overhauled. Hartzell says if the prop can be repaired without being dismounted it won't need anything beyond a minor repair. The prop was repaired and a new blade was ordered to be installed later on. 3 months later the prop was removed and a new blade installed. When the prop shop tore down the prop to install the new blade they found the hub was bent and needed replacement. The point being, Hartzell understands what dynamic forces their prop experience and what damage they can tolerate. Unless the damage was incurred with the propeller spinning, there's no way to tell how the stresses were transferred into the hub or engine and what those forces were. Have the prop torn down and inspected, its not expensive. as for the engine, being a piston as an absolute minimum do a runout check on the engine flange and do a SOAP on the engine oil after a good long ground run at power. And again at 25 Hours.

@aviobrain 10 ай бұрын

really gutted for your prop damage. lovely job in the tandem RV..really great. As for the golf buggy, go for guns as others have said, the guys need to learn a little respect. good luck in the comp and I look forward to the video!

@carlosballesteros4670 10 ай бұрын

Hey Canada!! Well done, excellent video. Greetings from Mexico. I love this channel with excellent material. Watch out for obstacles damaging more propellers.

@DirtNerds 10 ай бұрын

nice work Chop! Good Job!

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Thank you! Cheers!

@iCantFly55 10 ай бұрын

Heartbreaking timing that! Way to persevere FC.

@1hornet1 10 ай бұрын

This was so cool watching you fly the 8. I can't wait to get home from work to watch the uncut video. I'll have more questions too. I used my lunch break for this one. I'm not gonna lie, I do feel even more frustrated with my project after watching this. It's just a mess with all the bad parts and I'm still waiting for that final list of parts being tested. I'm afraid to rivet my horizontal stab together which is ready. Oh well, darn the luck. Thanks for the videos!

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

I'm so sorry to hear about the challenges you're facing on the build... But getting through it will be SO rewarding. Keep in touch through the process. Where are you based? Maybe I can stop by on the way somewhere for a visit!

@1hornet1 10 ай бұрын

@@FlightChops I'll send you a message over on Patreon.

@1hornet1 10 ай бұрын

@@FlightChops Change of plans. I emailed you instead and titled it "From Texas Flyer".

@HiddenWindshield 10 ай бұрын

Yeah, I don't know about that golf cart. I would have been really nervous landing that close to it, and probably would have gone around.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching to the end - and I'm pretty sure that was a contributing factor to my bounce... (or at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it :)

@dcaruana81 10 ай бұрын

I would have gone had a chat to them and ask what they were thinking, its pretty dumb.

@alwaysflying6540 10 ай бұрын

I watched to the very end just to see how that looked from the sky. Those guys needed to be disciplined for that honestly. Great job putting it down safely

@gtr1952 10 ай бұрын

Thanks Steve! I'm learning more about this than I ever thought I would! 8) For the golf carts, in a 182, 210 or so I probably would have just landed long. For a small wing w/flaperons/ or no flaps, I'd have done what you did... I think? I would hope those people just had no idea it was challenging to control, and there was no I'll intent there. Nice job!! --gary

@BlueSuedeLeoman 10 ай бұрын

As for the golf cart. I would have done a go-around whilst having the time. There is no way of knowing their intentions or if they see the aircraft or not so a go-around would have been my choice. However I would have done a veeerrryyyy low go-around, just to make sure they knew I was there 😂

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching to the end :)

@Zags78 10 ай бұрын

Well done Steve. Great episode

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

👊 Thanks!

@johnwilcox2239 10 ай бұрын

Half way through my RV8 build. Would love to see a video comparing your experience contrasting the 8 and 14.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Great idea! And honestly, even before having flown one, I knew the 8 was the choice I’d have made if I was a tiny bit more selfish 😂 But now, after flying one I can confirm it’s an awesome well balanced machine. Really perfect for the single pilot experience. Ultimately, I chose the 14 to make for a better passenger experience. But I will address this in more detail in a future episode.

@Peacewind152 10 ай бұрын

Much oof for FCGA. That really really sucks. Glad you were able to make good out of a bad tho and get into the RV-8. Which I must add... holy shit... the kid is 14 and he flies THAT?! WOW! Also yeah I prolly would have overshot that landing. Silly golf cart is silly.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

thanks for the friendly feedback - and for watching to the end :)

@onebravotango 10 ай бұрын

Overcoming adversity and achieving success makes for an engaging and successful aviation journey! ✈🛩👏

@bradh74 10 ай бұрын

Not a pilot but had to deal with people around a truck for years. I could tell people to stay clear or a work area, you can't, but I've had to drive around people that were or weren't paying attention. So it all boils down to the 6th sense we get driving when we feel out the other drivers and can usually tell what they're going to do, but CYOA (cover your own a..!) because at any moment they can do something dumb when you're committed and can't change what you're doing. So I treat them like an obstacle/hazard so I can avoid them or over take them but a go around is good especially when you aren't sure and can radio to have them run off the runway.

@darrylmeredith8789 10 ай бұрын

Hi Steve. This is Darryl from the Windsor air museum. Heard about your prop strike. Glad ur competing in the contest!

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Thanks yeah. We’ll get her back online. Hopefully in a week or two.

@jmichaelcarbonniere9549 10 ай бұрын

Considering that the engine was not running and that these composite props are so delicate, I would not tear the engine down. It seems that you have done everything necessary to check the engine & prop so, while watching closely for any new vibrations, I'd say run it hard for a couple of hours and if nothing appears out of the ordinary, take your trip and don't imagine vibrations when there aren't any (easy to do when flying alone and listening hard for them... this is when ghosts tend to appear!). Due caution is one thing, being over cautious is just expensive! If you do hear or feel "new" vibrations, find another experienced pilot with the same type airplane and see what he or she has to say. I'm betting your engine is fine! But then it's not my butt on the line, so it's easy for me to say this. You have to do what nakes you feel is best and whatever allows you to sleep soundly at night! Cheers, jc

@Dreddip 10 ай бұрын

@goatflieg 10 ай бұрын

BTW almost forgot: Great work Brock! (as usual)

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@huh4233 10 ай бұрын

Ground handling damage is definitely expensive. Prop damage story for you - Helping a gentleman work on his kit-plane (GlaStar) at the airport. Large hanger was shared by 3 airplanes and him in the back corner. Guy(CFI) comes out to fly and he meets another CFI and another person at the hanger. They hook up to a Mooney parked in there and pull it out on the ramp with a hand tow bar, and close the hanger door. 2 hours later, they come back after flying WITH THE TOW BAR ATTACHED. Blade strike, probably on take off. They didn't realize they hadn't disconnected it until it bounced up into the fuselage on landing apparently. New prop and engine teardown......$$$ Stuff happens, in the air it could be the last time it happens.

@brendenmock4493 10 ай бұрын

GXRS still having a VM1000 warms my soul. Vision Micro Systems was sold to JPI 20 years ago and its insane they are still out in the wild with 0 company support.

@jimkitt2128 10 ай бұрын

Another great video. What is the red and white aircraft that looks like a Velox with a single seat bubble canopy that we see in the hangar at 20 seconds with the Giles on the right and the Stearman on the left, please? It has the Lost Aviator Coffee Co. logo on the wings, with half a maple leaf on the vertical stab.

@MichaelLloyd 10 ай бұрын

I think you both made a safe decision on your prop strikes

@ChannelJanis 10 ай бұрын

If I could fly, I would go around. At least from car driving experience, the behavior of that golf cart made me think that there is something wrong, it is not predictable and I should keep a distance. In a car on a highway I would slow down, being ready to stop. In plane there is no such option, so I would go around.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching to the end :)

@WhiteVaille 10 ай бұрын

Yeah, likewise, I think this might have been the smartest move. No fucking clue what those idiots were thinking or planning, so... Eh, not blaming him for landing here. Thankfully they stopped and it was fine, but still. What the hell were those guys doing??

@jochentreitel7397 10 ай бұрын

Steve, you're right. Don't take chances when dealing with a prop.

@JohnsonAviation 10 ай бұрын

After recently obtaining my Commercial Certificate just 2 weeks ago, watching your videos always motivates me to keep going and reminds me of how fun and amazing the GA community is!

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Right on! Huge congrats!

@JohnsonAviation 10 ай бұрын

Thanks!@@FlightChops

@clarencewiles963 10 ай бұрын

You also have the advantage that you had a propeller balanced at Hartzell and all that data. And now you can get the propeller rebalanced and see the new data and analyze the numbers.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Yes Hartzell has been awesome to work with through all of this.

@deani2431 10 ай бұрын

Mike Busch’s exp shows that if the engine is at idle or stopped it is very unlikely that there will be any engine damage.

@superpilotish 10 ай бұрын

I would have buzzed the cart inverted. TOP GUN style!😎 But seriously, I would have landed like you if I knew they just drove up and stopped. If it was a controlled airport, I would have gone around.

@davejt1967 10 ай бұрын

Quite fascinating!

@GlenAndFriendsCooking 10 ай бұрын

So many AMEs (Canadian A&P / AI) in the comment section. Pretty sure that Steve is consulting with all the correct authorities about what he needs to do / what constitutes a prop strike.

@ldnwholesale8552 10 ай бұрын

Steve,, your 'accident' will never damage the engine. Repair or better replace the prop and away you go.A significant strike like a large bird or ofcourse standing it on its nose would then require engine inspection. And even then it would be doubtfull of any damage,, but you must check

@Fozzzz 10 ай бұрын

Nice!!

@fdtank81 10 ай бұрын

Welcome to Canada where we’re still without adsb and weather!

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Haha - yeah... but honestly, SiriusXM weather data is far superior to ADSB

@FlyingNDriving 10 ай бұрын

That's no oppsie doopsie, that's full blown uh oh spaghetti-oh!

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

I reluctantly agree with this assessment

@paulschannel3046 10 ай бұрын

I'm not an engineer or anything but... It seems to me that a small "knife edge" appearing type of strike, and from the pictures it seems that's what you have, any pressure/force would be so concentrated, it would take very little force to cause the damage we see. I would think that whatever force that caused the damage would be FAR below that required to transfer so much force to the crank/internal engine components. Had it been aluminum... that would likely be another story.

@wb6anp 10 ай бұрын

As far as the golf cart Yes I would have gone around and called someone on the radio to go and have a "talk" with them. they were way too close.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Right?!

@pilotblue6535 10 ай бұрын

Golf cart? Really? I would love to see that property insurance policy.

@flyingkub 10 ай бұрын

If there was enough runway I would land long to have the wheels on the tar after them, if you can't do that it is a judgment call and we would have to be in the plane to make it.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching to the end.

@bruce3909 10 ай бұрын

Being in a shared hangar sucks for sure. Being in canada though we have to take whatever hangar space we can get. I’ve had my 172 and now my 182 dinged by meathead users of a plane in my hangar. The best part about it is they’ve tried to hide the damage they did and then deny it was them. Neither one of those jerks even own the plane they use. I’d rather drag out 2 planes by myself than have them touch mine.

@kentmckean6795 10 ай бұрын

Sucks about the prop...

@nothing1421 10 ай бұрын

As for as the golf cart, I think I would have changed to the green dot instead of landing on the orange dot.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Haha - yes, I didn't really want to land long, so it was gonna be a go around, or a continuation...

@thatguy8005 10 ай бұрын

Ouch…

@wb6anp 10 ай бұрын

I don't know Canadian regs, but a damaged prop that was not powered should not require an engine teardown, Check the runout of the prop flange, but chances are it's not bent since the prop wasn't spinning at the time. That's where the teardown comes in is a sudden stoppage.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Read the documentation 🤷 Lycoming was very supportive, but made it clear this if this was a certified engine, I’d have no choice. It’s what I scrolled through quickly in the video, but I can also link to it in an other comment.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Here's the related documentation from the FAA and Lycoming: www.federalregister.gov/documents/2004/05/21/04-11406/airworthiness-directives-lycoming-engines-formerly-textron-lycoming-direct-drive-reciprocating www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/attachments/SB533C%2520Recommended%2520Action%2520for%2520sudden%2520Engine%2520Stoppage%252C%2520Propeller_Rotor%2520Strike%2520or%2520Loss%2520of%2520Propeller_Rotor%2520Blade%2520or%2520Ti%2520%25281%2529.pdf

@edcew8236 10 ай бұрын

Seems to me that Lycoming is protecting itself from the lawyers as a primary motivation. Being that strict makes no sense. @@FlightChops

@gainestruk1 10 ай бұрын

Was about to say same, no need to tear down, just check the run out of the flange, this isn't considered a "prop strike" if engine was running thats a different story, he should never mentioned it to Lycoming, it will be a huge waist of money to find absolutely nothing wrong.

@MatthijsvanDuin 10 ай бұрын

@@gainestruk1 The airworthiness directive linked above says it considers "any incident, whether or not the engine is operating, that requires repair to the propeller other than minor dressing of the blades" to be a prop strike and _explicitly_ states that this includes "situations where an aircraft is stationary and [...] a hanger door (or other object) strikes the propeller blade". So unfortunately it doesn't look like it leaves any room for arguments.

@rexmyers991 10 ай бұрын

I am an A&P holding Inspection Authorization. If you came to my shop I would send your prop off for IRAN, dial the crank flange and (if run out is within limits) re-install the prop and sign it off as Airworthy.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Appreciated - that is what we’re doing :). But can you confirm this would not be the case if it was the certified version of the IO 390? That’s what people in these comments are confused about.

@rexmyers991 10 ай бұрын

@@FlightChops Good point! I forgot that the engine is not in an Part 23 Certified airplane. I am not sure how Canadien Regulations apply. I do hope your costs are a lot less. Shame.

@roadrash2187 10 ай бұрын

Interesting that the golf cart was in the object free area….they should not of been there. I think I would have just landed beyond it.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Agreed - and thanks for watching to the end

@PDZ1122 10 ай бұрын

This is absolutely not a tear-down situation. Never mind homebuilt v as certified; think logically. There is no way on earth that damage could have hurt any part of your engine. I've personally worked on engines that had actual prop strikes while engine was running. One customer insisted on an engine tear down. He wasted $30k. On two other engines we inspected, found no cause for concern and the engines have been flying for years since. I know a guy who runs an engine shop. Off the record: he had never seen engine damage from a composite or wood prop strike.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Logic and regulations don’t always mix. The video addresses the dilemma.

@TheNapalmFTW 10 ай бұрын

The golf cart occupants looked like they wanted to get up close and personal and see you land. It looks lik ignorance of the dangers vs anything nefarious. The airfield probably needs something to say "hey golfers, stay back"

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

agreed - and thanks for watching to the end :)

@cdemosshouston 10 ай бұрын

Steve - is the prop toast? Can a composite prop be repaired?

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Hartzell was able to repair it! I'll be hanging it next week.

@michaelgill7248 10 ай бұрын

It might be possible if you had an metal prop, if they did not tell you, then you might not even know it happened?

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

This is a good point. AND in the case of a metal prop, the damage would have transferred more easily, (and more insidiously) to the crank shaft.

@Surestick88 10 ай бұрын

Before dismissing the mandatory engine teardown as silly, it's worth noting that a certified airplane can be used for hire (rented, flown in charter flights). Someone likely paid for that regulation with their life. I think you're making the right choice on your airplane given the way the damage occurred but that doesn't mean I trust someone else, who's primary focus might be profit, to make that decision (without my knowledge) on an airplane I'm renting. I was going to say that i bet setting up those aerobatic box markers is easier with GPS than it was prior but i hadn't even considered using a drone!

@RayleighCriterion 10 ай бұрын

If only we had the technology to build a propeller that doesn't damage the engine when there is a prop strike.

@louissanderson719 10 ай бұрын

Off topic I know, but haven’t seen Dennis in a while! How’s he doing?

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

He's not doing great, honestly. It's looking like it is going to be a slow recovery for him.

@robinkoenig 10 ай бұрын

If your engine wasn’t running and that was simply prop damage from moving airplanes around in a hangar you don’t have any requirement to tear down the engine.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

I had a pretty stressful week going back and forth with my local AME and Lycoming discussing the options. But to confirm, as the video states, there is an FAA AD that defines what a prop strike is (and this qualifies) and a Lycoming SB that requires a full teardown inspection. The only way I'm escaping it, is by exercising the privileges of being an experimental aircraft owner.

@SnowmanTF2 10 ай бұрын

I am still having an issue guessing what the golfers were doing, it does not look like any kind of shortcut around the golf course. Plausibly trying to get a closer view of the landing, ignorant of how even being off the edge of the runway is still not exactly the safest place to be. It also seems plausible they hit their ball that far off the fairway, the hill could have kicked it out a bit further than initial bounce in the area, so might indicate some risk of FOD on the runway. I guess it may be a regional thing, but it is a bit odd to see an airport this scale without some type of fence.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Yeah… I found it … interesting. And I’m blaming my bounced landing on them 🫠

@rjobrien7805 10 ай бұрын

My A&P IA says a prop strike with a composite prop doesn't require an engine teardown.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Please see the pinned comment regarding the FAA definition of a prop strike.

@jfbaze2001 10 ай бұрын

Too bad about the prop. Great video. I think the golfers got out of the cart so I would have landed, if they were still in the cart for me it would have been a go-around. I would have also called the club house and talked to the marshal. Obviously not pilots… just clueless.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

They were still in the cart - there were other golfers standing around. I wasn’t in a position to deal with it afterward, but the flying club is going to follow up with the golf club to mitigate this happening again.

@Mixturerich 10 ай бұрын

Golf Cart = Go-around. No doubt for myself.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching to the end :)

@Mixturerich 10 ай бұрын

Enjoyable video. Thanks@@FlightChops

@paulcarstens2601 10 ай бұрын

What was Brock doing in that golf cart? 😂

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Brock! ✊

@finntheirish13 10 ай бұрын

That's frustrating. :(

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Yeah, it sure was. But I can't stress enough how great the community has been (and continues to be) in supporting me through it.

@tac0majas0n 10 ай бұрын

You're not going to need a teardown. It's not a prop strike if the engine wasn't running.

@KillerSpud 10 ай бұрын

I think you could use the other half of the damaged prop to do an experiment to find out how much force was required to cause that much damage, then compare that to how much torque the engine's components experienced vs how much it is normally expected to handle. You might find it is well within acceptable limits.

@Surestick88 10 ай бұрын

The other half of the damaged prop might be the other half of his new prop!

@johnparkman8150 10 ай бұрын

I have seen several prop strikes and although I get the FAA definition, with both the flexibility of the prop and the tail of the Harvard I don't feel like an engine teardown is necessary. I am thinking you may have already figured that out though...😉

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

I'm thankful to be an experimental owner. If it was certified, there'd be no discussion.

@alwaysflying6540 10 ай бұрын

I've personally flown aerobatic competitions with damaged propellers and came out on top. Having said that, im not sitting in them, lol. They are remote control, and the flight risk is low. Better safe than sorry guys. Great video

@highmarkrich 10 ай бұрын

You'd be nuts to do an engine tear down on a 'prop strike' that occurred when the motor wasn't running. There is literally no chance a low speed impact would effect anything in the engine. The prop will yield so much sooner than anything in the engine.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Welp... The FAA doesn't agree. (see pinned comment, and/or pause the video when I scroll the AD and related Lycoming SB) And while I don't love the black and white approach they've taken with defining a prop strike, I do appreciate that there ARE cases when a non running prop being impacted by a foreign object CAN send weird forces to the crank shaft and do engine damage... so it is not something to be discounted.

@highmarkrich 10 ай бұрын

@@FlightChops I could be slightly convinced if it wasn't a composite prop.

@Hugocraft 10 ай бұрын

Sequence #3 and #10, on the 45 down while inverted you should probably be at negative 1g or slightly more. Need to paint that 45 down line for a few seconds before the roll then same length line before and after the roll.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Aaron helped me learn how to cheat those in the RV-14 to avoid being negative too long due to my lack of inverted systems.

@bruceme101 10 ай бұрын

First, no overhaul, infant mortality is a real risk. Second, I fly around people and odd vehicles often towing gliders... I would have bumped the throttle and landed behind them

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for the insights confirming my decision, and for watching to the end 👊

@offshoretinker 10 ай бұрын

That's not a prop strike - it's normal hangar rash and carelessness.

@michaelsamson3276 10 ай бұрын

I don't think that damage would require an engine tear down. A tear down comes from a "sudden stoppage". Hangar rash on a composite prop would put no stress on a crank flange

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

It’s not so simple. And yes hangar rash can damage a crank… we likely dodged it in this case, but it is my no means a given.

@CRFHONDARIDER100 10 ай бұрын

I understand what the reg reads on a prop strike but do not believe you need to tear down your fresh engine because someone pushed your prop into another airplane . That’s sounds like a waste of a tear down inspection.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Yeah - I was surprised to learn this as well - but it is what it is. I pinned pinned a comment with the FAA definition of a prop strike; if the engine was certified, there'd be no choice.

@wb6anp 10 ай бұрын

@@FlightChops I hope you don't have the issue many here in the U.S. are facing, 6 months to year, sometimes more, to get engines inspected and rebuilt due to parts and mechanic shortages.

@DWBurns 10 ай бұрын

The prop strike is surprising to me that it did so much damage to the blade versus the damage that was done to the aileron. I was considering putting a composite prop on my Arrow, now I am going to have to think on it a while. I must say it speaks very highly of your fellow competitors that you are able to use someone else’s plane to fly the competition. I have found this to be the case in much of aviation and it reflects highly on all of us involved in GA and making a living flying planes, we still help one another. It was very nice to see people acting decently without expecting huge financial gain. GO AROUND, GO AROUND, GO AROUND! The golf cart got too close for my comfort. If the runway was long enough I may have flown 1,000 feet down range then landed but it has been my experience that runways bordering golf courses usually don’t have an extra 1,000 feet.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching to the end :) And honestly, I'd look at the composite prop from the opposite perspective - under normal operations they are super strong... When abused they break before the crank shaft does.

@DWBurns 10 ай бұрын

@@FlightChops I like that way of looking at the blades. Saves the crank.

@qrr857 10 ай бұрын

why don't you guys just throw a g5 in these? less than a pound

@joesgarage6863 10 ай бұрын

Non-movement engine not running prop strikes can cause damage even with composite props. Seen a few of those in my short time in aviation. Good luck on the repair!

@BruceDuncan 10 ай бұрын

Why not trailer these aircraft to the competitions?

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

It’s prohibitively expensive in terms of cost and labour, and there is often damage associated with trailering aircraft. It is unavoidable for over seas events, but if on the same continent, they are generally flown.

@BruceDuncan 10 ай бұрын

@@FlightChops Mate I thought you started life as a glider pilot ;) Good point though I guess powered aircraft don't generally have purpose-built trailers just lying around.

@samhklm 10 ай бұрын

For most people is a terrible incident. But a prop strike is gold here on KZfaq.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

Haha - yeeeaaaahhh... Imma stop you right there and confirm this was still pretty terrible. 😂 I spent the better part of a week being very depressed / stressed about the situation. It was extremely disappointing to not get to fly the RV-14 for this event after spending so long training toward it. Then when we devised the plan to pivot to the RV-8, I decided to suck it up and face the pressure of having to meet the moment / rise to the occasion to pull off the flying to actually not embarrass myself in the contest. Oh, AND I also needed some part of my brain reserved for the film making to capture everything. Then I got home and focussed 24/7 for a week to edit this one as I was fielding so many questions about the rumour of the damaged RV-14, I just wanted to be able to respond with a good video to explain what happened and what I was deciding to do. Is it gold? I mean... it's made for some engaging content, but it was a whole heck of a lot of work to pull it off. So I'm calling it "making lemonade out of lemons" - and lemonade is kind of a gold colour, so I'll give you that at least 😎

@samhklm 10 ай бұрын

@@FlightChops You are safe and will be flying soon again. Best wishes for continued success.

@mattbasford6299 10 ай бұрын

I've flown a 172 and 182 all over the country VFR with less gadgets than any of these. No ADSB in or on board weather. I look out the window. It's an adventure. Ive had to wait out weather at FBOs, but my guess is that yall have, too.

@z31beck 10 ай бұрын

I really wish we would evolve to saying "Prop injury", or similar, for non-operating incidents and reserve "prop strike" for an occurrence with a running motor.

@DWBurns 10 ай бұрын

I agree. If “Not Under Power” should offer a less expensive way to test the crank. Maybe composite blades need a mention in the regs as well. I have a Piper Arrow, I may get it a new prop. My prop has an AD for 100 hour eddy current inspection of the hub, it is only $400, I don’t know. This is when I need one of the old wise pilots to tell me what to do. Problem is, I have become the old pilot, I just don’t feel wise.

@just-a-waffle 10 ай бұрын

That's not true, you don't have to tear down a certified engine after a prop strike. It's the same decision you were making, you test the runout, and if it's within limits there's a crank bolt that needs to be replaced and it's back in the air. Total around $2500 of service.

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

@just-a-waffle 10 ай бұрын

I suppose the confusion is more of what’s classified as a prop strike. What your aircraft has would be solidly in the grey area, and could be treated as you decided to

@FlightChops 10 ай бұрын

I thought / hoped this was the case as well - but it's not a grey area according to the FAA: Definition of Propeller Strike (i) For the purposes of this AD, a propeller strike is defined as follows: (1) Any incident, whether or not the engine is operating, that requires repair to the propeller other than minor dressing of the blades. (2) Any incident during engine operation in which the propeller impacts a solid object that causes a drop in revolutions per minute (RPM) and also requires structural repair of the propeller (incidents requiring only paint touch-up are not included). This is not restricted to propeller strikes against the ground. (3) A sudden RPM drop while impacting water, tall grass, or similar yielding medium, where propeller damage is not normally incurred. (j) The preceding definitions include situations where an aircraft is stationary and the landing gear collapses causing one or more blades to be substantially bent, or where a hanger door (or other object) strikes the propeller blade. These cases should be handled as sudden stoppages because of potentially severe side loading on the crankshaft flange, front bearing, and seal.

@ProbableCause-DanGryder 10 ай бұрын

You have the correct definition of the FAA of our English word “STRIKE” Strike is a verb which assigns ownership to the “striker” ie the offending person or object. What we have here is the past participle of “STRIKE” which is “STRUCK.” Your engine was “not” running and was damaged (struck by) only on the back side of one blade. This is now a “PROP STRUCK” event, and neither CAA or FAA offer any requirements. There is simply no way that your engine could possibly suffer any kind of internal damage by being “struck” by another aircraft in the hangar. The crank and case endures 50 times more stress during acro or even normal ops. The crank and case is built to not bend during the high torsional stress events of normal ops. The correct answer for certified or experimental, US or Canada doesn’t matter: Remove and replace prop. Logbook entry by any A&P. The entire story line here is approximately equal to a mosquito landing on an aircraft carrier and being worried about carrier damage. It’s that insignificant. If there is more to the story that I missed which would make it all make more sense, please share. I am more than happy to have my mind changed if I missed something.