Taiwan on!

Lol

Including when the switch starts sniffing your traffic and sending it to the Chinese government

best comment ive seen so far

Fair

Agreed, it seems like these switch makers are so reluctant to push 10GBase-T switches for the home....it seems like every low cost 10gig switch comes with SFP+, and you can't run DACs in your walls and 99.99% of home owners are not running fiber....I just don't get it

I'd much prefer one with SFP+... Much lower power and latency 🤷🏼‍♂️

Agree, and I think this was the first comment!

yeah RealTek is sure stepping up their game big time!

Don't they also dominate a lot of the consumer 1Gbe switch market as well in terms of switch chips? I admittedly haven't looked into it in detail, but that was my understanding.

has been for decades

As far as seconding the motion that more manufacturers (especially ones whose products can be bought on Amazon or Walmart or Best Buy), I'd say, yeah, why would would anybody buy an 8-port 2.5 Gbps switch when you could get one that handles 10 Mbps, 100 Mbps, 1 Gbps, 2.5 Gbps, 5 Gbps and 10 Gbps instead for a couple bucks more? It seems to me that the NetGears and TP-Links and Linksyses of the world have really dropped the ball on the potential of the Prosumer marketplace. You didn't mention, did you test it for full switch-speed bandwidth from all 8 in to all 7 others out? One would think it would have to meet that spec to be called a switch, but who knows about these cheap ones - maybe no regulatory certs means not guaranteed to do anything in particular. You say it operates at layer 3, which would be good if done right, but what if it's really only a router, not a switch-when-you-can-otherwise-route box? How good was the manual, if any provided?

@@jimatperfromix2759most of these vids have a corresponding article on the main site, and they are usually much more detailed. You might find the answers there. I would have checked before making my comment but I am currently using voice-to-text while driving (my passenger is the one actually pressing the buttons so I am not breaking any laws, but he isn’t really all that interested in tech).

@@jimatperfromix2759 Yeah, very odd the major players haven't jumped in the game, perhaps there are limitations to these designs that we're not aware of - like you said, perhaps there is a bottleneck in the controllers or something else?

ياتة

I think you're right about them boosting the price… right now I see it at €425 _including_ shipping, so that's €65 more than you saw it three months ago!

there's already enought SFP+ crap available, 10GBase-T doesn't get enough love

Yeah just 1x sfp uplink would be ideal

Not all of them 5ports are available for less than people blow in a weekend on drinks

Almost makes "reviewing" them pointless

I'm not arguing on most of your points, but coil whine, or coil hum as you called it, is not a red flag of any kind. If it was more than half of everything that has gotten the stamp of approval would be gone. No one likes it, but it's one of these things that just keeps cropping up. Annoying and irritating yes. Dangerous no. From what little we saw of the innards these looked decently built. The PSU was well separated from the rest with a generous airgap. But we didn't get a good view of the power supply. Now as an old cranky man I'm surprised at how many dangerous PSU designs there are that's being sold today. Mostly I'm surprised because there is very little in the way of secrets about how to design a safe PSU. And the added cost of manufacture is so incredibly small it's next to nothing. Remember, good design doesn't add cost. It makes things simpler, cheaper to manufacture, safer, and reduces the failure rate. At least that's how industrial design is supposed to work.

I can't imagine buying some no-name Chinese junk that very well may include spyware, in addition to it's unknown safety and fire hazard.

@@KevinRiceSLO Maybe but to paraphrase: Satan is beautiful, not some ugly easily recognizable demon

I posted this in another comment, but if you live in a house that adheres to common electrical codes, ensure the box is grounded (using that ground point they provide) and you'll be fine. Even if there is a catastrophic electrical failure internally, the resulting ground fault would trip the circuit breaker you're plugged into. The worst case I could imagine, you'd also need to replace the Ethernet interfaces in the connected endpoints (because the magnetic isolators were fried). If that's still not good enough, open frame power supply modules like they're using internally can be bought from electronic parts suppliers like Mouser and Digi-Key. Buy a reputable one that supplies the same power, slap it in, and that's the worst of your electrical risk mitigated for not a lot more money. Now, if you DON'T live in a house that adheres to common electrical codes, it's a different story...

Would you mind saying a few words on why that's important to you? Might be something I need but don't know it yet.

@@jimatperfromix2759 You didn't ask me, but I have similar sentiment. Having VLAN management is close to only thing I want my ("smart") switch to do. Why? If you do a home lab sort of environment and you want to still do it right way, you want to separate networks. Not just subnets, but VLANs as well. Eg if you do virtualization (which is common for home labs today) you want heartbeat in one VLAN, storage in separate VLAN, clients in another VLAN, and so on. You just don't want these mixing and is usually suggested as a supported way to do it. Except VLANs, I'd probably use STP, maybe MAC filtering on occasion, a little system health info, and extremely rarely port mirroring and port binding. I believe I've seen everything mentioned and way more in this "simple" switch. Web UI might look basic in design, but they have more options than smart Cisco (Linksys) lines such as SG500. 8 ports is just perfect for home lab or branch office and the likes. Having support for 100Mbps/1G/2.5G in addition to 10G covers everything. If you need more just get another dumb switch with 10G or similar uplink and 8-16 1G ports and that's it. This looks so nice, that I'm adding this to my to-do list, once I get some time to check it out some more, and maybe even order one. Sounds like a bomb! :) Edit: Actually one thing I did not see, that's for me to check... If this switch supports RDMA / RoCE... I really can't think of anything else of importance for this level of switch

@@luxzg Yea, VLAN is a must from lets-say 4+ devices. Even just for the "management" VLAN for administration interface for all APs, switches. Just to separate things and strip down possible attack vector. And if you have IOT/smart things, cameras, smart TVS... VLAN separation is just must-have these days. Another example: you can have separate VLAN for guest wifi and allow access to the internet only (and not to your home devices...)

​@@jimatperfromix2759I went in that rabbithole recently. Vlan management on ghe switch allows you to separate the configuration port for your equipement from your usual vlan. All your personal on a vlan & all switch, routers configuration access on another vlan. Your firewall will be used to allows exchange between your main vlan & your management vlan.

are those 10GBase-T ports like I want for my home? or useless SFP+?

@@post-leftluddite It has 12x 10G Ethernet ports and 4x shared SFP Ports - the SFP Ports are mutually exclusive with the 4 Ethernet ports closest to them (as in, you can use EITHER the ethernet OR the SFP for those 4 ports). For software, it runs Microtik's RouterOS (if you want full featured switch management) and SwitchOS (if you want a much more simplified managed switch feature set). I am using this unit in my personal home lab and it runs well. I paid ~$550 for it 3 years ago or so.

I'll second that emotion. But I'm afraid such a beast may not exist, currently. Wendell of Leve1Techs recently scoured square miles worth of convention centers in Taiwan looking for such a beast, and I believe he came up empty handed. I think Patrick did a similar fairly exhaustive analysis a while back looking for USB-C either 2.5 Gbps or 5 Gbps (or both, I forget which) and found a number of those available. But I've come to the tentative conclusion that USB4.0 (which is a C jack) is the only thing that will come close to supporting 10 Gbps Ethernet, so I'm looking for products in that department. I suspect that currently the market only has Thunderbolt 3 (or 4) compatible 10 Gbps Ethernet cards. Not sure if they work directly hooked to a USB4.0. I think Patrick is the perfect person for us to nominate to sort this mess out for us. As for myself, I'm kinda counting on USB4.0 to come through for us eventually. Specifically, I put a moratorium on buying any laptop or mini-PC that does not have USB4.0 (even if it has 2.5 Gbps Ethernet - not enough for me, thank you very much, although I'll use that in the interim if needs be). For a desktop, I can always scrounge up a 10 Gbps NIC somewhere.

Really? I slow down for KZfaq recording and only do before coffee

@@ServeTheHomeVideo you're awesome Patrick. I love the content. Keep up the great work.

If you want SFP+ ports, Mikrotik has managed switches that are in the same price-range or lower. The 8xSFP+ version is fanless, costs less and has better switching speeds

@@aliancemd True, I do like Mikrotik, but the 8xSFP+ version also lacks any kind of RJ-45 ports and that was the point I was making, a switch like the one featured in the video that ALSO had a couple SFP+ ports would be quite the nice combo that I could use to replace my existing Juniper switch :)

If you want this be aware that the fans are very loud I mean hair drier loud I swapped them out for noctua fans which helped a lot but its not perfect due to the air flow design you get turbulence noise even with quiet fans

True, but then you will spend another $400-450 to get all the ports as 10Gbase-T, have higher power consumption than this switch, and not get PoE+. SFP+ switches are cheap, that is not even the least expensive one out there. 10Gbase-T switches are more costly which is why this is a breakthrough.

Ha!

That is SFP+. SFP+ switches are less expensive since you would need to add more costly fiber, 10Gbase-T adapters, or DACs. 10Gbase-T is much more expensive.

@@ServeTheHomeVideo 10Gbase-T, basically the wire is cheap is the upside. SFP+ just like the switches, network cards also tend to be cheaper than 10Gbase-T. If you look at the Connect-X 3 or lower depending on OS support requirements. I noticed most if not all of your tested clients seemed to be using built in 10Gb RJ45 ports. Really it boils down to are you upgrading to 10Gb because you already have 10Gb capable RJ45 clients and servers or are you green fielding 10Gb to your lab. Green field its all down to port mix and if most of your lab 10Gb connections can run DAC cables. If you already have 6-7 RJ45 10Gb NICs one of these switches is the better option.

Mikrotik has even cheaper L3 SFP+ switches(including fanless) but you blow any budgets once you buy the modules

If these switch makers just put some effort into getting some 10GBase-T switches in the hands of consumers, it'd drive the price down....they're refusal to make anything but SFP+ switches really frustrates me

$4 SFP+ cards?! Which ones? Edit: $12 each... But still, connetx-3s are like 35 each, dual port ones are more like 65.

And I know I have seen some of the older Intel-based, 4-port SFP+ NICs available for decent prices as well. If you feel comfy running fiber or have good access to compatible, low-priced 10BasedT adapters, it is almost within pricing to build your own switch from retired desktops (like a Z170 board with a 6700, even better if it is one of the WS boards that had PLX chips for PCIe switching).

@@Cynyr Just get the OEM rebranded ones. HPe pn 518001-001 they are mellanox 2 dual port or Solarflare cards, the S6102 is a dual port overlooked because it's not a mellanox but the cards work fine in linux/windows

What does your fiber distribution look like? Does it go out from a patch panel to each room of your home?

@@Wav10001 we have a 24port patch panel, had keystones for ethernet. Ethernet down to wall mounted boxes/faceplates with keystone jacks, where a small ethernet plugs in to pc, console etc. as expected. When we moved to fiber, we pulled the fiber to the same wall faceplate and just swapped out a rj45 keystone for a lc Om3 ones to match the fibre we're using. They are the coupler type, so just plug in fiber run in the back. Same at the patch panel. We left some ethernet in the rooms, like we have consoles, printers etc still.

Just make sure you protect them behind a firewall. My Huawei switch was getting telnet connection attempts from China

Exactly.

I also worry that any fire insurance would deny paying if this thing catches fire and has no compliance labels

If you live in a house that adheres to common electrical codes, ensure the box is grounded (using that ground point they provide) and you'll be fine. Even if there is a catastrophic electrical failure internally, the resulting ground fault would trip the circuit breaker you're plugged into. The worst case I could imagine, you'd also need to replace the Ethernet interfaces in the connected endpoints (because the magnetic isolators were fried). If that's still not good enough, open frame power supply modules like they're using internally can be bought from electronic parts suppliers like Mouser and Digi-Key. Buy a reputable one that supplies the same power, slap it in, and that's the worst of your electrical risk mitigated for not a lot more money.

yes but if you wanted 8 ports of 10g j45 then we are talking 400 on top of that...

​@@ko260 the USW-Aggregation only supports four 10GBase-T transceivers. So the best you could do would be four fiber connections with four RJ45 transceivers

@@RennsportFilms I did not know that. I wonder why. Power? Thermal?

@@GCTWorks Not sure, but probably a little but of both. It has a 36W power supply with a max power consumption of 30W and on average I think 10GBase-T transceivers do around 3W of pull.

@@GCTWorks Think it's mostly thermals. The user guide even recommends you stagger the Base-T transceivers so they're not plugged in next to each other.

But to get those to be 10Gbase-T like this you would spend another $400 in converters and add another 18-20W at idle. SFP+ switches are cheap because the cost is in the plugables.

Any switches that have both? Rj45 and sfp 10gbe?

We have videos on the MikroTik switches

We are working on it. www.servethehome.com/the-ultimate-cheap-10gbe-switch-buyers-guide-netgear-ubiquiti-qnap-mikrotik-qct/

That would be good to test in addition to general port speed and PoE capabilities. This switch would make a lot of sense in a mixed 10/2.5G environment.

Yes. Mentioned briefly in the video, we tested the ports at 2.5GbE and 5GbE and with Intel and Marvell-Aquantia adapters (even with Mac 10Gbase-T)

@@ServeTheHomeVideo Ah, missed that!

Oh that is cool!

We have you covered: - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rdmojaVpl83HiYE.html - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ps9oY7div86ue4U.html

So far we have had them running for several weeks without issue, but these are just two units

@@ServeTheHomeVideo On 6:45 I think I see one of the terminals of the C13 plug as having the insulation pulled back from it? That's live wire, too. If it came like that from the factory that's a QC fail if I've ever seen one, hehe. Also if the power supply board has some additional marks/names on it, maybe it got certified by itself elsewhere.

It probably has local certifications that are not mentioned for export. This definitely does not look like a bodge product. Won't matter for insurance company though. IMO 6:45 is not a violation. Insides are isolated with earthed full metal enclosure. YMMV.

Yes!

That may be, but this is like the 5th Hasivo switch we have with the first ports not providing PoE+.

Port 1 is generally reserved for all kinds of functions by default. I would not be surprised if you had to manually turn on POE+ or apply an override for port 1 to allow POE+ or if they imagined port 1 always being the trunk/console/out-of-band port. Hard to say without looking at the software in detail.

Let's try again. I've searched the internet and have not found any support site that would allow downloading a firmware for these. I'm not sure we should be promoting Chinese goods which are completely unsupportable.

SFP+ is always cheaper. This is the first 10Gbase-T cheap switch in this price band.

You can always add a 10 gig rj45 sfp+ to the switch for cheap if you didn't want to go fiber. It's not worth pushing this junk.

Wise insight. The next-gen WiFi 7 AP's will need higher speed networking, but many will also need more power than PoE+ provides.

He did list 100Mb/s in the list, but it would seem a waste. He also didn't state which version of POE this supports, so is it the latest? That might make this worth a little more, since that is like 90w or so, right?

@@ServeTheHomeVideo but with the theoretical limit of wifi 7 even 10Gb would be not enough, and as you say PoE+ will not be enough and you will end using PoE from a proper injector, no win there, but again for $35 is a nice to have

I totally agree! I had forgotten Buffalo made switches until the team found this one.

We used Realtek, i225-V B3, and i226 NICs to test the 2.5GbE.

WiFi 7 AP.

And that is also a problem with the buffalo switch mentioned in the video. I bought it in 2017. It had one firmware update since then.

These are buy and forget. You buy it once and never think of exposing it to the world and limit it to

The OpenWRT community seems to be working on Linux support for the 2.5 Gb model, my guess is the 10 Gb model will follow.

@@autohmae Oh, that would be really cool!

Yeah not sure if Patrick @servethehome does any tests using OpenWRT or other open source firmeware options on these videos but would love to see results or walkthroughs of any issues as support for those roll out too

They have less expensive 2.5GbE options: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mNiBiNqmyLCwpJs.html

maybe "shipping" also includes VAT?

@@TheBackyardChemist In my case (Norway it's 577.09 NOK (51,33 EUR or 57) for the shipping alone, then comes the automatic VOEC VAT uses the entire cost to calculate an additional 25% on top, so the total ends up at 3 791 NOK or 337 EUR or 375 USD).. That's not what I call "dirt cheap" by any means.. Even Norwegian dirt is cheaper than that..

The have the decently priced Aggregation 8 port SFP+ L2 only which is decent for a home lab rack switch to get 10Gb server to server at least. I luckily still have the old XG-16 with 12 SPF+ and 4 RJ45 for the best of both worlds. It was not quite double when I got mine, but I'm pretty sure they are EOL and over $500 if not more now.

​@@popejohnny5You are forgetting the need to buy costly transceivers, which easily makes that switch more than twice as expensive unless you are able to stick entirely to DAC cables.

Exactly this.