This Mac nearly had me beat! It fought hard but I got it in the end.

Рет қаралды 48,352

Ай бұрын

In this video I repair a Mac 512k motherboard with an unknown RAM expansion card on it. In part 1, we looked at two Mac motherboards with unusual RAM expansion cards. The Mac 128k motherboard worked, but I left the Mac 512k motherboard for another video. This is that video! Figuring out what was causing this motherboard to not boot and display video issues required me to study schematics and try to understand the architecture of these early Mac machines, and it paid off!
Part 1: • Mac motherboards with ...
Part 2: This part!
-- Video Links
ROM Matrix:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Sad Mac Error codes:
tinkerdifferent.com/resources...
Macintosh 128k technical documentation:
bitsavers.informatik.uni-stutt...
ROM Disassembly:
www.bigmessowires.com/rom-ada...
PicoRC:
github.com/dekuNukem/PicoRC/b...
www.tindie.com/products/dekun...
Adrian's Digital Basement Merch store:
my-store-c82bd2-2.creator-spr...
Support the channel on Patreon:
/ adriansdigitalbasement
Adrian's Digital Basement (Main Channel)
/ @adriansdigitalbasement
My GitHub repository:
github.com/misterblack1?tab=r...
-- Tools
Deoxit D5:
amzn.to/2VvOKy1
store.caig.com/s.nl/it.A/id.16...
O-Ring Pick Set: (I use these to lift chips off boards)
amzn.to/3a9x54J
Elenco Electronics LP-560 Logic Probe:
amzn.to/2VrT5lW
Hakko FR301 Desoldering Iron:
amzn.to/2ye6xC0
Rigol DS1054Z Four Channel Oscilloscope:
www.rigolna.com/products/digi...
Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
amzn.to/3adRbuy
TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer: (The MiniPro)
amzn.to/2wG4tlP
www.aliexpress.com/item/33000...
TS100 Soldering Iron:
amzn.to/2K36dJ5
www.ebay.com/itm/TS100-65W-MI...
EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
www.eevblog.com/product/121gw/
DSLogic Basic Logic Analyzer:
amzn.to/2RDSDQw
www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Logic-DS...
Magnetic Screw Holder:
amzn.to/3b8LOhG
www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-...
Universal ZIP sockets: (clones, used on my ZIF-64 test machine)
www.ebay.com/itm/14-16-18-20-...
RetroTink 2X Upconverter: (to hook up something like a C64 to HDMI)
www.retrotink.com/
Plato (Clone) Side Cutters: (order five)
www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-5-10PCS-...
Heat Sinks:
www.aliexpress.com/item/32537...
Little squeezy bottles: (available elsewhere too)
amzn.to/3b8LOOI
--- Instructional videos
My video on damage-free chip removal:
• How to remove chips wi...
--- Music
Intro music and other tracks by:
Nathan Divino
@itsnathandivino

Пікірлер: 213

@silmarian Ай бұрын

I honestly like the lighting in the Adrian After Dark videos. It feels more like chatting over a drink and sets the visuals apart from every other retro tech channel out there.

@johnsonlam Ай бұрын

Screen looks more comfortable if not for circuit reading or detail.

@HeyImGaminOverHere Ай бұрын

Agreed! I really enjoyed the after dark ambiance. I definitely hope there are more of these to come!

@Dukefazon Ай бұрын

Holy sh*t, all that explanation and schematics reading lead to "I'll just hold the mouse button..." and the system boots :D

@Cherijo78 Ай бұрын

If this were the 1980s it'd be an RTFM moment, but... Nearly 40 years later and the manual is lost to time...

@malanvogt Ай бұрын

This guy never ceases to blow my mind with his diagnostic skills

@nurmr Ай бұрын

I keep thinking Adrian needs a Flying Toaster plushy for the after dark sessions. It could be friends with Rammy.

@xanderplayz3446 Ай бұрын

@@logipilotJust a quick tip: It’s you’re, not you’r.

@jasentenney6907 Ай бұрын

I like the after dark format. Do more please. Thanks!

@jammi__ Ай бұрын

For calcium stains (that's what hard water stains are), a mild acid works fine, just as with kitchenware. Citric acid is commonplace and sold as powder, so you can mix that up to the concentrate level you want.

@Jody_VE5SAR Ай бұрын

That was a tour de force in troubleshooting an unknown function. Well done!

@user-zm4oy6mf5z Ай бұрын

I sometimes wonder if the board designers watch this program and sit there laughing as you struggle to understand their work?

@llwellyncuhfwarthen Ай бұрын

I had left Steve Wozniak a message a fair while ago to have them pop in once in a while to watch.

@Toonrick12 Ай бұрын

@@llwellyncuhfwarthenI don't think Woz worked on the Macintosh.

@TheDoctorhuw Ай бұрын

fantastic fault finding, well done on you persistance too. And I enjoy fault finding too, even after over a 40 year career in electronic engineering!

@siberx4 Ай бұрын

Brilliant deduction about the mouse button, very impressive! When you first talked about the vertical lines, I was hoping you'd use their exact positioning to help you narrow down the failing RAM chip and sure enough, that's what ended up happening. It's so interesting seeing how close to the metal these older systems are where you can have a 1:1 correspondence between a hardware failure and the actual symptoms, rather than just the random crashing you get nowadays due to all the layers of abstraction between the user interfaces and the hardware itself.

@joe08867 Ай бұрын

I like the Adrian after dark. It has a cool feel with the mood lighting. Like hanging out with your buddy in a bar or tavern.

@keithkneeland6849 Ай бұрын

I was just thinking the same thing. Just a couple buddies shooting the shit about computers that they’re fixing. I dig it!

@kevincozens6837 Ай бұрын

Always satisfying to find the problem and get a board working again. I was surprised the motherboard wasn't tested without the RAM expansion board as one of the first diagnostic steps.

@kirusyaga Ай бұрын

1:00:10 you've could just count pixels between your line and line that motherboard RAM generates, and removed the chip that lives needed count of bits away.

@PaulDriverPlus Ай бұрын

Great Episode. I never ran across that card while supporting the 68000 Macs but I do remember that RAM errors were always annoying as heck on those, which is why any RAM error got you a spares replacement board and your board went to Apple for repair ( it was faster thus cheaper ). I also remenber how I became the only shop tech who could work on Macintoshes. Now to preface this, my father was and E.E. and actually has a very cool patent from the 60s that is a way to get 8 phone calls over a single radio channel, kind of a tdma sort of thing, and my Dad usually ran a TV repair shop, and so, I kinda grew up those. So I'm trying to do a live power supply/display adjustment on a mac 68000 which means I've a mirror on the bench, and I'm reaching into the Mac to set the gain or whatever it was that made them bloom, and I keep getting tickled now and again by the high voltage, and I softly say "damn" each time, somehow that makes it not hurt. The shop manager, call him Ed, goes "What's wrong" and I tell him "I'm adjusting the gain and I keep getting zapped, and I twitch and miss the setting when I get zapped". Ed gives me this look, like I'm some kind of imbecile that must be pittied, and says " I'll do that " and takes over. Oh Right, the customer was there waiting to pick the Mac up, and the screen was over bright and not too readable, that's what the isuse was, lolz , memories, like holograms, the more you excerise the memory, the more of it pops back. So I go up to tell the customer "Just a few more minutes, the service manager is taking care of the adjustment" and walk back to the shop, when Ed screams "Fuck" and I see the Mac come flying across the shop, hitting something and the CRT goes "POP" Ed claimed he got shocked, spasmed and the Mac took flight. But because I'd worked on CRT TVs so much, I didn't (still don't) have the same reaction to getting shocked as most people, stun guns can make me laugh, and I can walk while being tased, not easily, but yeah, that's how the verry irritated Computerland GM declared that unless anyone else had high voltage experience I should be the only one working on CRTs. Oh yeah, the Custome ended up with a whole new Mac too. Lolz, I later built a jig with extended cables to let you safely do those adjustments.

@Agnarian Ай бұрын

When i was a programmer, i got my best work done between the hours of 1am and 3am. Quiet, no interruptions from the world, it was perfect for coding.

@InssiAjaton Ай бұрын

The “water stain” is quite likely calcium carbonate. As somebody else already noted, vinegar would dissolve it, IF you can tolerate the smell. If not, maybe you could find oxalic acid that will do the same with radically less odor. After the acid treatment (just a couple minutes), you should put the board through a dish washer cycle, and after that, flush twice generously with distilled water, followed by blow drying. Mildly warm, if you can produce such. A good long time!

@user-hb8sq6ce9u Ай бұрын

Citric acid can be used as well.

@brooknet 29 күн бұрын

What an amazing 'whodunnit' bit of RAM detective work! I loved watching you finding the culprit.

@FabioJulioRoque Ай бұрын

Amazing skills Adrian! The second channel really deserves more contend like this one. Congratulations!

@GarthBeagle Ай бұрын

Dang, great work! I love how you found the (well lack of) RAM test stuff in the ROM and the mouse down workaround for the add-in card

@djdoo Ай бұрын

Just excellent logic and work! One of your best videos of all time! I don't care about MACs at all we never had them here in Greece, but I loved the way you approached the situation and even without a scope's help which is a tool most of us don't have, you figured out the fault! Cheers, keep up the great work, Jim.

@anthonyblacker8471 Ай бұрын

Isn't is such a great feeling of accomplishment when you find the code that figures out the bad chip? So good!

@tonygroenewoud-powell53 Ай бұрын

Your level of research, attention to detail and layperson explanation is AWESOME!

@jgvillan01 Ай бұрын

I like After Dark, and I love the old screensaver too.

@Tevruden Ай бұрын

Vinegar would also work to remove those hard water stands and neutralize any remaining battery juice.

@TyphinHoofbun Ай бұрын

This was a great video, it was amazing watching you go through everything! I have almost no experience with Macs, and I certainly didn't work on them. My elementary school had Apple computers, and got a suite of Macs donated to them shortly before I left. It's always neat seeing the insides of all these computers I was aware of, but never got to truly experience. ^_^

@johnsnook2358 Ай бұрын

I really enjoyed this video. I also like the Adrian After Dark video format.

@dawnmitchell8213 Ай бұрын

This was one of my top favourite videos of yours. Maybe the top video due to your tenacity to troubleshoot it until you got it working. Over the years I have lost sleep not being able to solve a problem. I once took 2 months back in 2006 with technicians in both the US and Canada helping to try and solve a problem that seemed to have no solution. Then one night at 3am a thought popped into my head so I hoped in my truck and drove to my customers sight to try my fix and bingo it worked. It’s very satisfying fixing a problem like that.

@Ariffer 24 күн бұрын

Amazing work… great detective work. I’m so glad that someone like you is rescuing these vintage machines!

@rager1969 Ай бұрын

Great job Adrian! It seems like a weird design choice that holding down the mouse button doesn't make it use the mobo RAM, but rather the first bank on the card.

@michaelturner2806 Ай бұрын

I would've thought removing the ram expansion and restoring the motherboard to stock would've been one of the first troubleshooting steps. After documenting how the expansion was set up, of course.

@levilinwood1371 Ай бұрын

Love your videos, Adrian! Great detective work discovering that mouse-button disable feature for the RAM card. I got very similar jailbar video artefacts while trying to restore my old family IIsi - in 1-bit video mode I noticed the pattern of black bars repeated every 32 pixels (the data bus width of that machine). Looking at the jailbar pattern on your Sad Mac (a 32x32 icon centered on a 512 pixel wide frame buffer), if you count down from 15 starting from on the left side of the icon, you'll find the bar coincides with bit 10 where the first black bar on the left appears. This technique helped me home in on a capacitor-eaten data trace between RAM and the video IC on my machine.

@FloPius Ай бұрын

Wow, that was crazy! Great Job! Thank you for sharing with us and the explanation! ❤

@Locut0s Ай бұрын

I love watching you problem solve your way through all of these repairs! It's so satisfying!

@johnwestby7913 Ай бұрын

Watching this from Gresham... Love the repair videos and the logical deduction and creative solutions to find them. Keep up the repair videos and enthusiasm. It's very infectious.

@TheBeardedDog Ай бұрын

I really enjoyed the troubleshooting in this video. The repair videos are definitely my favorite.

@insanelydigitalvids Ай бұрын

Thanks, Adrian. The After Dark segment has one of the BEST explanations I've ever seen about the dance between hardware and software in these early Macs (and even a bonus dive into 68K ASM!) Excellent, informative and riveting video. A Master Class in information-led diagnostics. ❤

@peregrine1970 Ай бұрын

This was an awesome episode. Loved watching the thought process lead to that solution. My hat is off to you... as long as the east wind isn't blowing in from the gorge.

@cla3d Ай бұрын

Simply amazing. Love this kind of content. Thanks!

@evaDrepuS Ай бұрын

Yet another excellent video from one of my favorite KZfaq creators (right up there with David at Usagi Electric and Ben Eater). Some of the mail call and similar videos may not get a full watch, but the deep dive ones like this are always worth the watch. Great start to a week vacation, and I even heard Adrian use my comment from his last after dark video in this one. :)

@joopidema Ай бұрын

As always, Adrian, excellent video. And again, we learned so much. Thank You!

@kapitannemo7454 Ай бұрын

Hi, another great work! Recently i learned some ram debugging trick: wire method. One end of wire connected to gnd or 5v, and with other end you can pull down or up data lines of ram chips (for short time, not to damage chip) and look for vertical line

@eDoc2020 Ай бұрын

Yup, I was going to say this. To be safe you probably want to use something like a 10 ohm resistor instead of a wire, then if you short the power rails you shouldn't fry anything.

@piwex69 Ай бұрын

One of the best episodes to date! I always admire IPL or boot sequences for different platforms. I wish someone explained the power-on procedure for later macbooks, like the pro from fall 2009.

@baards Ай бұрын

Great video, Adrian! I like the after dark theme. What really caught my eye was the video ports on the SE in the beginning. I have a SE with similar ports, it has a video card made by Orchid Technology. I have never gotten the card to work. Either I’m missing a driver or the card is bad.

@bikeforever2016 Ай бұрын

Love the deep dive fault finding and the video format. Feel free to keep them going.

@TheZcoffin Ай бұрын

I fixed some single pixel vertical bars like that on one of my SE/30. Just needed to repair a couple broken traces. Thanks for the explanation Adrian! I love following along with your repairs.

@josuaschmid501 Ай бұрын

I really enjoy watching your content in general, this one however was just one of the cherry on the top ones!

@CayMacVintage Ай бұрын

Amazing work and I learned a lot from this video. Thank you for your detailed research and explanations.

@geoffcollins6601 Ай бұрын

Awesome totally cool and well done, love your thought process with this problem.

@nysaea Ай бұрын

There is a remarkable lack of flying toasters, but the black magic (pun intended) makes up for it!

@aco2468 Ай бұрын

Super funny and great video! I very much enjoy all the troubleshooting, congrats!!! well done!

@JL-hy7ve Ай бұрын

Adrian you amaze me and your detective work is great. I like the after dark sessions. I look forward to your videos on Wednesday’s and Saturday

@TheBelcherMan 13 күн бұрын

Good job mate! Had fun watching.

@Luke-rr9po Ай бұрын

Awesome video Adrian, love the after dark stuff - amazing! 😊👍

@andik6828 Ай бұрын

Great job figuring it out Adrian thanks for video

@OpCode90 Ай бұрын

Do you have a program that can now test all of the other ram on the expansion board, other than that first bank that we know works? PS: I loved the entire deep dive and technical knowledge you have now bestowed on the world. I was following right along with you, talking to the screen about the different data lines and then you would mentioned them. So cool to see someone tear into these old PCs with your experience level. Thank you!

@davidemmons8001 17 күн бұрын

This was the fastest moving video you have made. Adrian, how much caffeine to stay up to do this? Fun all the same. Great deductions.

@LittleDancerByGrace 15 күн бұрын

I really love the 'after dark' vibe. I also enjoyed watching the chess game at the end.

@andychamplin Ай бұрын

I have to say that going to Adrian's class is quite entertaining. I learned a lot.

@pcawte Ай бұрын

Truly excellent piece of diagnosis

@gregmark1688 Ай бұрын

Ok, figuring that out about the mouse button really makes you look like a friggen genius, Adrian.

@allunread1358 Ай бұрын

What an inspiring video, great logic and persistence.

@Merescat Ай бұрын

simply amazing! great work!

@baronvonschnellenstein2811 Ай бұрын

Very good episode, Adrian. Hope you weren't _too_ wired at stupid-o'clock in the morning when you'd completed the repair and were able to get a good sleep after that :) Certainly an intriguing fault given the unknown RAM boards and patina of limescale on the motherboard.

@PeteWord Ай бұрын

Great series!

@waxore1142 Ай бұрын

The only thing I find questionable myself is the crystal with using CLR. If that can is not completely sealed at the base and any liquid gets in there it's done. Maybe desolder it. Idk if i would even bother though. A lot of work for it to just look nice.

@johnlittle8975 Ай бұрын

This whole troubleshoot reminds me of the "which cup has the Iocain poison" logic loop from the Princess Bride. "Parallel Pirates from Alameda don't like corrosion and will keep it as far as possible from them, therefore, I clearly cannot trust the RAM chip in front of me..."

@KelikakuCoutin Ай бұрын

Keep the faith. You do what they all said couldn't be done. Board level repair. Those fatalists. We can't let them win. Thanks for the content. Keep up the good work. בס'ד

@stompreaper Ай бұрын

This was satisfying to watch! Glory!

@Cherijo78 Ай бұрын

This Episode of After Dark is so spicy it needs an Only Adrian account. 🤪 Seriously though, I really enjoyed the way you backed off and walked us through the thought process to understanding how this particular RAM card design played with the motherboard and the errors you saw. Well done!

@strunapl6103 Ай бұрын

Just notice yours t-shirt ... May the 4th be with You. 😎 .... the force is strong with this One.

@jaysearle538 Ай бұрын

Love the after dark content!

@user-nd8zh3ir7v Ай бұрын

that was a fun adventure! enjoyed it quite a bit.

@jackdrizzleshizzle4389 Ай бұрын

Thanks for another great video. It really blows my mind how you managed to solved this. I'm really impressed by that!

@adriansdigitalbasement2 Ай бұрын

Thanks!

@ast3663 15 күн бұрын

awesome analysis

@andrejgerbec8645 Ай бұрын

Nice hunt! Good job!

@stompreaper Ай бұрын

I’m really enjoying the after dark series. Definitely want more!

@jessiec4128 Ай бұрын

I had a few SE models myself. Never had a battery explode. I reallyi enjoyed this video. I no long have any MAC systems :(

@markmuir7338 Ай бұрын

“Zero to Sad Mac” sounds like progress to me 😅

@Screwtapello Ай бұрын

Growing up with serial and USB mice, I always thought of them as something complex for later in the boot process when you'd gotten things running. It never occurred to me that the mouse button on its own might wind up as a TTL signal on the motherboard, but in retrospect given it was a huge part of the Mac, it's a pretty sensible way to do it.

@retroheadstuff8554 Ай бұрын

Great videos, part 1 and 2 👍

@The1RandomFool Ай бұрын

What a clever way to find the bad RAM chip.

@rommix0 Ай бұрын

59:13 That beep was obviously a different pitch. Probably a good indicator of something corrupt as the beep routine is assembly code that runs.

@georgestephens2593 Ай бұрын

Rammy approves of your ram troubleshooting skills Adrian.

@OtterlyInsane Ай бұрын

The fact the line was 6 pixels over would have pointed you to data line 5 or 10 I think. The fact it was 10 suggests that the video is read from 15 down to 0 across each 16 pixel block

@frugalprepper Ай бұрын

I sent you a e-mail on a source for the DB-19 Right Angle Female that is new. Great Video!

@Capt.Marco-Hawk-L.L.A.P Ай бұрын

instant thumbs up for amazing work

@Zadkiel343 Ай бұрын

1:03:25 - "It was a bit of a struggle!" - i see what you did, there.

@CoyoteSeven Ай бұрын

What a tricky knot you untied. That is a job well done! So the only things really wrong here were two ROM chips and a RAM chip?

@waxore1142 Ай бұрын

The clear plastic window on the side of the headphone jack comes off if you wanted to clean the contacts

@criggie Ай бұрын

Next time, Adrian takes apart that SE case and we see what's INSIDE !

@nagyandras8857 Ай бұрын

Hell yess I love repair videos. No mather what you repair. Even if it ain't a computer at all.

@jayfowler4747 Ай бұрын

Think it's time to create a test kit for mac's... that was a good job figuring out what was going on....

@TheGreatAtario Ай бұрын

The twists and turns!

@Choralone422 Ай бұрын

After watching this video I seem to remember doing the mouse button trick back in HS in the 90s on a Mac Classic that was acting up in class. Doing that made the machine slow but eliminated the crashes. A teenage me (who was only into PCs at the time) didn't bother to wonder why it worked, just that it did.

@jurgmesser7723 Ай бұрын

RAM pulling: who else was reminded of 2001 Space Odyssey? „I’m afraid, Adrian. Adrian, my mind is going. I can feel it...' 😂

@lukehindman4498 Ай бұрын

That was quite the journey 😊

@Vermilicious Ай бұрын

I suppose you could've used an oscilloscope on the data pin on the RAM chips and look for the one that was stuck.

@Blackkspot Ай бұрын

This episode really catched and holded my attention from start to end.and i rarely watch 2nd chan videos. 👌

@dawnmitchell8213 Ай бұрын

That’s pretty impressive sleuthing to track down that mouse button trick.

@horusfalcon Ай бұрын

You might want to get that board into an ultrasonic cleaner. As for the rest of the repair, very systematic approach fouled by an initial assumption that was flawed. It happens that way sometimes, but you got distance when you needed it and figured it out, which shows both persistence and patience. Well done!