THIS Mistake is Killing Your Rack Tom… | How to Maximize Punch & Sustain from a Cheap Drum

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4 жыл бұрын

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We all want that big, long, tone-filled sound out of our rack toms, and for some reason it sometimes just won’t happen. If you’re working with lower end drums, this can be especially challenging. Today we’re applying the same principles we did last week on the floor tom to get our rack toms sounding amazing. I’ll be tuning up a cheap rack and an expensive rack side by side so we can compare and contrasts the tuning methods. I’ll tune up top and bottom heads in realtime, then we’ll talk about tricks for maximizing the good kind of resonance and tone and reducing the bad kind of sympathetic resonance that happens every time we hit the kick or snare. Sometimes you actually have to go the extra mile with a cheap rack tom to make sure it’s fully isolated. A stand can easily suck the life out of it, but the DIY isolation method I share does help a lot. If possible, mount your rack tom from a rack mount so you can avoid this issue altogether. And of course, getting rid of sympathetic resonance is every drummer’s goal, though it’s impossible to eliminate it entirely. We can do our best, though, by employing the techniques we talked about today. I hope you enjoy!
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Пікірлер: 89

@DaleLyons31 4 жыл бұрын

The differences in resonance between the stands was insane. I had no idea it could make such a huge difference.

@KesslerMickschGeorgeII 4 жыл бұрын

Putting the tom in a snare stand was a huge eye-opener. I was killing the resonance of the shell by using the shell mount. I’ve also found that if I get weird overtones, it’s more effective to muffle the reso head instead of the batter. (A thin coat of black engine enamel worked great! I just taped off the ring. I did it for aesthetics at first, but I didn’t need any gels or o-rings after I got the drum back together and tuned up. Happy accident!)

@Chiroman527 4 жыл бұрын

Steve, I'm 68 and had a 50 year hiatus from playing drums. Started to pick them up last year. Your videos are very straightforward and down to earth especialky for beginners and refugees like me. I have a cheap drum kit from Grammond , received as a xmas gift from my wife in 2018. Other than lesson and practice videos all over the web, you present excellent instrument information with tips and tricks to improve the sound of what you have. Hopefully as i improve I will step to a better kit.

@fredlittle8127 4 жыл бұрын

When mounting a tom on a stand, I find TnR Products, Little Booty Shakers do help in opening up the drum. These are 'L' shaped pieces of foam rubber with velcro straps to fasten over the rubber grips at the ends of the arms on snare or basket stand. They are very inexpensive at about $15 for three and can be installed or removed in a minute or two.They in essence allow the drum to float.

@Daveuga11 4 жыл бұрын

I’ve played for a long time Stephen and never was aware of such a difference with the different basket stands and the toms. I love learning new things! Great video

@joek81981 3 жыл бұрын

That mount test was remarkable. Rarely is ANYBODY actually surprised by something on KZfaq. That was incredible.

@Youdiments 4 жыл бұрын

Great topic! Your channel is very much helping me come up w topics for my channel. Thanks!

@muzzybeat 4 жыл бұрын

You do such an awesome job, Stephen. I learned several useful things again, as usual.

@sarinahart7106 2 жыл бұрын

I really appreciate your series. It’s very practical. I always learn great things I can apply immediately. Thanks!

@k73l71 4 жыл бұрын

Perfect video on the tom tuning man. Thanks again!

@alanissexy99 2 жыл бұрын

This vid was awsome! Tysm ! 😊😊😊

@yup7549 3 жыл бұрын

What a fantastic channel! Subbed for life and thank you for this.

@jasdog 4 жыл бұрын

This is amazing, thanks a lot!!!!!!

@paulgonzales1829 4 жыл бұрын

I found this quite informative. Thanks!

@drummerjoey003 4 жыл бұрын

Great content and advice, it helped me out with understanding. I like my tack tom sitting in a snare basket, I’ll definitely have to use some insulation and tape it to the rubber on the basket.

@drumrollplease8046 4 жыл бұрын

Great comparison of the stands. Thanks!

@vegasmarc21 4 жыл бұрын

This video has helped me out Stephen. It shows me that I'm not the only one who thinks about how to get more resonance from toms and I'm not the only one who thinks about sympathetic buzz and or vibration. I was beginning to think there was something wrong with me. Lol

@alanlamore7397 4 жыл бұрын

I have my 56 WFL tom mounted in a vintage WFL flat base snare stand. Tons of sustain-no choke. The DW Ultralite stand with mini booty shakers works excellent as well.

@bernardrooney105 4 жыл бұрын

Very helpful. Thanks.

@JustinHubbard84 4 жыл бұрын

The issue is not the drums.. Its that your using 2 different types of heads. The EC2 will always tune up better on the lower end

@Phil.A 4 жыл бұрын

Exactement!

@frankspikes7858 4 жыл бұрын

Great point. Those are great heads for hard rock.

@TheDrumphile 4 жыл бұрын

Good video. I’ve been playing for over 30 years and over that time did my own experimentation and arrived at similar conclusions about what robs rack tom resonance. What I learned is really simple: It doesn’t matter if you’re using a snare stand, tom on cymbal stand, or tom mount on a bass drum. If the drum is held rigidly, then its resonance will be gone. I’m not a “tom on snare stand” guy, but if I was, I think the best solution I’ve seen is the Gauger Flex Frame (Google it). Mapex came out with their hideous yet very effective MAATS system for rack-mounting toms, but a much cheaper yet just as effective alternative are the INDe Drum Labs mounts. Some factory mounting systems are better than others, and I have been very satisfied my my original Pearl I.S.S. mounts that came on my 1998 Masters Custom Extra kit. My toms sing for days, but only if I put them at the END of the tom arms. They start to choke if I don’t.

@SelbstmordGMBH 3 жыл бұрын

15:54 how hard is this effect on snaredrums? I want my 14" x 06" snare to sound bigger, especially on gigs.

@EJ-ge4st 9 ай бұрын

I have a PDP snare stand and it kill my 13” Tom as well. Is it the thickness of metal or what about the stands do this?

@Kylink 3 жыл бұрын

I actually like the totally dead sound of the basket stand, I feel like it's just cleaner and punchier, but I can understand most people want more resonance.

@dontfallyoumighthurtyourse4694 3 жыл бұрын

I like that short and sweet decay too. A lot of drummers like having the toms ring out but the bands you play with and the recording engineers generally arent looking for that same sound.

@Chiroman527 3 жыл бұрын

Steve, great video. What Batter and Reso heads do you have on the Toms?

@drummercarson896 4 жыл бұрын

I learned something new today about this

@jeremysdrumming4474 Жыл бұрын

Hey Stephen, It looks like you used two 2 ply Evans heads on the bigger tom, does that help on bigger drums to use a 2 ply on the reso side? Just curious 🤔

@EJ-ge4st 9 ай бұрын

I did this with mr clean magic eraser foam pads and I doubled my sustain on the 13x7” rack Tom

@dashwig 3 жыл бұрын

The part about the stands was very enlightening. Honestly, I just went from rack mount to a stand years ago, because, like you said, I like to have things in place independently, and since I'm tall I had the same issue with the tom being too much out of reach when mounted on the bass drum. Plus I just thought it looked way cooler on a stand :-) But never paid attention to it making such a difference in sound. Thanks!

@jeremysdrumming4474 Жыл бұрын

I have a Ludwig Evolution kit, bout a 900 dollar set that I got last year, came with hardware, zildjian cymbals, pedals everything bout 1200 altogether, to be honest I've not really found the sweet spots on the drums just yet, I'll definitely explore more fine tunings in the next few days, anyway my 10 inch rack tom chokes out, but the 12 inch tom is fine on the bass drum mount and I've actually considered just doing a two tom setup version instead of the 4 tom setup how the kit came, should I consider a rack system or an isolated l rod mount, or basket, I feel like I need a drum tech lol I've almost given up on it to be honest my 20 year old Ludwig kit sounds better and at the time in 2003 it was 395 bucks, I guess it could be new hoops maybe die cast could help but anyway just wanted your opinion on this.

@MeTuLHeD 3 жыл бұрын

EC2's are designed to have a powerful low end while eliminating some of the high frequency resonances. Hence the head difference alone could explain most of the variables between the two drums. Also, in my own experience, bearing edges are the biggest factor in differentiating between cheap and expensive drums. I've proven that to myself by sending my cheap Yamaha import kit off to have the edges recut on the toms. When I got them back, they were singing like my high end drums. Maybe even better.

@bogartsandoval 4 жыл бұрын

I learned the sympathetic stuff the hard way and wish I would of saw this video first. Thanks Stephen for your vids.

@heatherqualy9143 3 жыл бұрын

Fascinating how different the stands sounds, but I was most interested in the final 5 minutes where you explained why you have yours in a stand, I haven’t seen anyone explain to me why to choose a stand vs. mounting on the kick, vs. a cymbal rack. Thanks for that, I am now heavily leaning towards individual stands now, because they never seem to be exactly where I want when they are on a rack.

@TRGP331 3 жыл бұрын

Can you explain why you would change resonant head tuning from batter head tuning?

@josephkyledrums 3 ай бұрын

I agree the stand I select can make a huge difference for mounting a tom. I’m not sure I agree that heavier stands aren’t as good, I use a dw 9000 stand for my rack tom and it’s great. I can’t say I’ve solved the mystery other than just trying what stands sound good and what ones don’t lol. Thanks for the video, very interesting topic.

@Kjodienda 4 жыл бұрын

Hey man, good Channel. The reason for the 12-inch tom having lower pitch than the larger tom has also a lot to do with the fact that there are only five lugs tightening that head versus the six tightening the other one. It s harder to bring up Pitch with fewer lugs.

@pauljanssen438 4 жыл бұрын

That's an excellent point that I hadn't considered. I'm new to all this and find tuning to be a bit of an Achilles heel for me. But your comment about 5 vs 6 lugs makes a lot of sense.

@Chiroman527 4 жыл бұрын

Good video Steve. Wouldn't usebof different batter heads bring about different sounds. I see you are using clear uncoated batter heads. What if you used coated 14 ply heads?

@piperious 3 жыл бұрын

Any comments on hanging flr tom from cymbal stand? I’ve got an early 90’s Pearl Export w a 14” hung from ride cymbal stand. Sounds pretty good, but wondering if anyone has hung a 16” similarly?

@NEALBABBITT 4 жыл бұрын

So glad to see you finally using a better set, they sound SO MUCH BETTER!

@minisurfbanana 4 жыл бұрын

Great I just bought a pearl S930 a heavy one! That’s going back.

@connorcampbell144 4 жыл бұрын

Can you do a video on tuning

@rmatarrita9 2 жыл бұрын

Hace you used a snare as a tom? Any thoughts??

@radoslavradosevic4586 3 жыл бұрын

thnx,u probably heard for Gauger R.I.M.S.® ALLOY PRO SERIES,its maximum resonance from shell

@Stretch213 Жыл бұрын

Now im wondering about the rack mount on my starclassic

@NothusDeusVagus 4 жыл бұрын

I really could have used a course like this when I first started out and yet I'm happier that I had to discover these tinkering/tuning "tricks" through trial and error... all part of the fun of starting with a second, third.. hell maybe even fourth-hand mongrel kit.. I was so sick of all of the rattles, hums and buzzes that I ended up completely disassembling the equipment right down to it's base components... washers springs brackets and bolts everywhere...then with nigh-on imbecilic attention to detail I reassembled the mess spread about me back into something resembling a kit... I even eventually splashed out for fresh skins... but it did make a difference. It was nothing like the kit I bought later or the one I have now but in a way it was a way to make the mongrel into my own pup. I found that putting the effort into the tuning of the drums to different ...well... notes... reduced that sympathetic resonance. Damn! I wish I still had that scruffy mongrel now. A good presentation... Thankyou.

@SocialistDistancing 2 жыл бұрын

I've always found that 13" toms a pain to tune regardless of brand or materials. What's funny is, a drummer friend said the same thing to me and I consider him an accomplished drummer. I thought it was just me. Also, the resonance is why I don't hang stick bags off of floor Toms. I just have the bag behind me, which can be a problem. However, I'm working on a solution. It's something that I spotted on Kenny aronoffs kit.

@ronnyricks1312 3 жыл бұрын

I noticed that on the cheaper drum you were using an Evan's ec head on resonant and batter. Surely that makes a difference in the overall results.

@maeu59 3 жыл бұрын

Of course it does, it’s all about the heads, it’s hard to justify the expense of the top of the line drums. People think that spending money on top of the line drums matter, why do you think there are so many different types of heads, what separates top of the line from bottom is hardware not so much sound. Drum sound is so personal it really doesn’t matter. Listen here....kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rtSdf7mGt9SamJ8.html

@trewgodell 3 жыл бұрын

@13:22 stand comparisons

@mpmattronome 4 жыл бұрын

THE HEADS MAN.

@ralphbenites1819 3 жыл бұрын

The deeper 13” is from a accent power Ludwig kit 👍

@NothusDeusVagus 4 жыл бұрын

I think that you would have been better able to compare and reveal any differences in quality of the two rack tom's sound if you had used two toms of different manufacture but with the same shell diameter, depth and thickness. furthermore, using the same quality in skins especially if the purpose behind this video was to highlight the differences between the shells and rims etc... even so I enjoyed this presentation. thankyou.

@121murcury5 3 жыл бұрын

The number of lugs vs. the size of the shell is also important...more lugs more control

@ralphbenites1819 4 жыл бұрын

The cheap deep Tom is a accent drum kit I like that deep sound

@rainabasso6537 4 жыл бұрын

Can please make a video about transition?

@nickcharles6530 4 жыл бұрын

Do you mean “transitioning to a new drum kit”?

@jermss_ 4 жыл бұрын

love my renowns. if they're the last kit I ever get, I'd be just fine

@howardgelber6802 4 жыл бұрын

The cheap drum is deeper than the good one, therefore it will have more ring to it.

@timbretrent113 3 жыл бұрын

"Nice, heavier shell" to me is a contradiction, thinner shells of high quality just sound better :)

@alphanumeric1529 3 жыл бұрын

How tall are you?

@brentrichards4191 3 жыл бұрын

Mount your Tom different than a snare. You claw grip the rim.

@capo_di_capi 3 жыл бұрын

There's basic principals in making a tom sound good, first of all, the dimensions, these shallow toms are killing me and such a gimmick, you want toms to be equal width and depth, 8x8, 10x10, etc. you'll find they are easiest to tune, sound best live and in recording situations. It just comes down to the basic principals of resonance too, a floating tom will always sound better than something that is supported from the bottom. Just trust what you hear...

@1955DavidH 3 жыл бұрын

Die Cast hoops make a big difference in tuning.

@flugelblarghen 4 жыл бұрын

Though this was an Athlean X video for a second from the title

@UCS0608 4 жыл бұрын

Different sizes of toms in diameter and depth. Different drumheads. And why this Evans-type drumhead on the bottom of the cheap tom...? I would use a clear single headed drumhead. And about the sustain.: most peolle don't need all the sustain and they are going to need Moongel... ;) BTW, the "oldskool-stand" adds a nasty ring to the drum..... Just put some flightcase-foam on the rubber of the stand. It makes all the difference!

@rotek824 3 жыл бұрын

U should compare same size and same head.

@drummerjosh1984 3 жыл бұрын

Like comparing apples and oranges.

@sticksbass 2 жыл бұрын

arent the heads entirely different?

@ralphbenites1819 3 жыл бұрын

The wrapping has been stripped from the Ludwig accent

@jrmyzero 3 жыл бұрын

You might actually teach me how to play a drum kit - guitarist

@davidcarbonnel6396 4 жыл бұрын

Sheesh...

@warrenoids 4 жыл бұрын

16:16 Or just use your crash cymbal stand.

@anonagain 4 жыл бұрын

16:44 - he explains why not to use the cymbal stand

@DaleLyons31 4 жыл бұрын

I use a cymbal stand with a clamp on it for my 10" tom...but without a cymbal on it, so it's easy to move around. Sacrifice one stand to get my tom where it needs to be. 👌

@derrickburwell7777 4 жыл бұрын

@@anonagain Personal preference. I use my boom stands to suspend the toms. I just make sure that the toms are positioned over a leg, and that the stands are as close to the bass drum as possible without touching it.

@connorcampbell144 4 жыл бұрын

14 viewer and 6th person to like

@SajoDetro 4 жыл бұрын

You are using different kind of heads buddy...

@josephwastaken7104 Жыл бұрын

finger tight at the beginning? *uses a drum key.

@ThatBlazerGuy 4 жыл бұрын

Hey, first!

@gogo2957 4 жыл бұрын

Hhahaa man different toms and heads! So different sound. The big cheap tom has better sound. 12'' got some overtones. Low tune is better. put some muffling.

@VictorGarcia-up9ov 3 жыл бұрын

your videos are too quiet:(

@P43L1j0 4 жыл бұрын

In order to get a good sound buy good drums, good heads and please don't use these crap stands...they made for snares, not for toms. Toms today have suspension mounts...just use the god damn tom holder...

@MumbyHitsDrums 4 жыл бұрын

Sorry, but, poor comparison here. 2 different heads, 2 different depths and widths. Even if they were both cheap or expensive, not going to sound right in comparison. And, 12 is always going to sound better, lol