That is exactly how a frustrated controller should act. No threats for a phone call, no berating. He was clearly frustrated, and rightly so. The Mooney pilot, on the other hand, had no business filing an IFR flight plan if his certified equipment was down, or didn't exist. I'm sure he'll get a visit from Mr. FSDO...

“I can fly IFR! (If I have my Etch-a-Sketch).

ATC was working hard to save this man's life. The fact that the controller was also a pilot was a huge benefit in this scenario. Well done sir!

That Pilot was VERY lucky to have such a competent and knowledgeable Controller. I think a Phone Call or Letter is needed with a Plan to re-eavualte the Piots IR knowledge. He was also lucky the weather gave him a margin of chance. That was not pleasant to listen too. Great Controller!

The scariest part about this is how he said "my ipad tells me when im over the fix"

Another shoutout to the ATC guy. He was pretty frustrated at first (and rightfully so), but quickly realized that this Pilot is not trying to be lazy, but he is simply in over his head. Put the frustration aside and focused on getting this pilot down safely. Great job here!

The "over" from ATC was perfect passive aggressive to get this pilot to communicate.

What a patient, professional and humble controller. When the other pilot said "great job" the controller said "we will see, he is not on the ground yet" . as frustrated as he was he put that pilots life first

WOW! This ATC has infinite patience. He could have easily said, nope, no VFR landings today, find an alternate with better weather, but he didn't. Kudos to the ATC, the pilot should have a phone number to write down and ANY instrument rating should be reviewed heavily, if not outright revoked until he is proficient in IFR procedures and rules!

That controller definitely understands that the top priority is to ensure that people get on the ground safely. Even after offering a better solution to the pilot, he told him: if that doesn't work out, don't hesitate to call me back.". Thumb's up, he might have save a live.

WOW, you are NOT going to get that kind of ATC hand-holding in the ultra-busy Northeast corridor. 2nd time you miss ANY NAV waypoint and they're gonna divert your ass to some podunk field in Western NY/NJ/MA... good thing this lost Mooney pilot was in WV.

Shout out to the controller! Great deal of patience and professionalism!

Im pretty sure he was saying he had his approach plates on his iPad. He is 100% correct that he cant fly the approach without the approch plate. That being said, using the GPS function on foreflight to see GPS location on the approach plate is strictly only for supplemental/additional awareness. Not for primary source of navigation.

How did this get an IFR clearance, or was he was lying when he said "capable" just to be "polite". This is one of the most bizzare and potentially lethal encounters I've ever heard. Imagine if a giant 737 was like "lol my ipad died, can we just try to land?"

This pilot needs a “709” ride!!

At first I thought he was just using his iPad for the plates but now I'm not sure he had any IFR capable equipment in the plane at all, or perhaps he was so frazzled by the end that he couldn't even put an ILS frequency in.

I think what he meant was that he didn’t have the plate with the approach fix names, coupled with not knowing how to load them into the equipment. When I took my ride, it consisted of shooting 4 very fast paced approaches to induce a scenario you likely wouldn’t see in the real world. Training is paramount

I want to say that The ATC has a very respectable and well as very big responsibility to getting pilots to where they need to go and I want to say he was very much appreciated in performing his job as a professional Air traffic controller to guide the Mooney to his destination in IMC conditions. Keep your IPad plugged in at all times and paper Approach plates for backup.

ForeFlight has more info than many IFR certified GPS units but it still can’t fly an approach. Having an IFR rating isn’t as important as being current in that rating. A non current IFR pilot can be dangerous. I see it periodically as a pilot myself

I'm going to hear "fly direct to JOSRU" in my sleep tonight and it's going to wake me up in a cold sweat.

95% of the time I always had pleasant exchanges with ATC when I messed up. This guy was great!

An IFR capable GPS will have the ability to recognize and identify a RNAV waypoint. Foreflight or Garmin Pilot are are just aids to help us navigate but final call comes from a built in GPS

I think the problem here was without the iPad, he didnt have access to the approach charts, and thus wouldn't know how to fly the RNAV or other important info like decision altitudes and missed approaches etc. He's probably also using the iPad to load the approach. All of this wasn't being communicated very well though. With a cloud base of 1900, they could have just vectored him to final. But also, he should have a backup iPad or paper charts for this exact reason.

I really appreciate how the controller continued to follow up to see if his own knowledge was incorrect. He was right, he was sure he was right, and he still went and double checked to make sure

Pilot should have declared an emergency

it was good to see the ATC guy able to calm himself down and go with the flow to simply play along with the inexperienced/unprepared pilot although it was a strange situation for him. at first it almost seemed like he was going to get nasty the entire time, but he made his point that it wasnt acceptable and then calmed down and did his job.

Bravo au contrôleur ! As a French commercial pilot, I appreciate that you stayed very calm and professional with this « pilot ».

Fantastic work from the ATC. He dealt with a frustrating situation very professionally

Extremely disturbing to listen too. Best case scenario, this pilot has an IFR certified GPS and was using the iPad for the approach plates. However, his failure to comply with turns and ID fixes, strongly hints that he might not have an IFR certified GPS.

How do you get an IFR license when you don't even know how to use the IFR gear in the aircraft? WTF is going on with the FAA lately?

Professional ATC. Outstanding work.

When the controller says "over", you know it truly is.

Pilot in training here....This is astonishing...I'm not even into my instrument rating! My school teaches navigation via paper charts, VOR's, etc. GPS is a luxury. Your iPad is a LUXURY! Only thing they let me use my iPad for is to electronically log my flights It's not even connected to the PFD. It's left running in the background and sitting in my bag. What this pilot is dealing with, is taught in PP school (at least at my school). It's part of the short amount of IFR training you get in the inadvertent case you find yourself in IFR conditions.

Pull his ticket. This guy is clearly using his iPad as a navigator.

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode!

This ATF controller was great! I'm sure he was frustrated, but didn't let it show, didn't rattle the pilot. Great job to him!

I’m not sure I understand what the pilot is attempting to do here - the approach plate on his iPad is informational about the RNAV Rwy 8 approach, NOT identification of the IAF (JOSRU), or any of the subsequent fixes on the approach. He needs that approach plate to provide information on what to do at each step in the approach, but he also needs the approach loaded into his IFR-certified equipment to know where he’s located on the approach. It doesn’t sound like he has loaded the approach into his on-board, IFR-certified equipment, and he doesn’t know what to do at each fix on the approach - basically, he’s flying blind above the (broken) cloud deck. He’s north of the field, and being vectored westerly (your in-video circled spot is incorrect). The approach controller is giving him vectors-to-final (turn left, heading 170, direct JOSRU, descend and maintain 4000). The controller is having him cross JOSRU and not fly the procedure turn (straight-in at JOSRU). All of this should have been loaded into his panel-mounted, GPS-capable IFR equipment prior to where this conversation picks up. Either he didn’t load the approach or doesn’t have GPS IFR-certified equipment in the aircraft. Even if he DID have all this loaded, unless he has one of the newer IFR-certified GPS units, he couldn’t see the approach plate to know what to do at each fix (because his EFB - his iPad - is dead). He should have declared a PAN, if not a downright emergency. If there were no VFR airports within his fuel window, there are PAR approaches available within the immediate area around Martinsburg, WV that could have vectored him in.

This is the second time I have listened to this. The first time I thought he was using his iPad to navigate. This doesn’t appear to be the case. What I’m guessing now is that his iPad is a crutch and his situational awareness is limited without it. Additionally, without the approach chart and if he only has one gps, he might not be able to locate any waypoints not included on the approach when the approach is selected

I am a CFII and I found myself in an aircraft, where I was supposed to be a passenger in the back. The pilot didn’t know I was even a pilot. He too exclusively used an iPad. At the last second, I wound up in the right seat. That little last minute change saved our lives. The iPad quit working about 20 minutes into the flight in the Colorado mountains. After watching him struggle and loose sight of his actual flying & navigation as he fiddled with that iPad. I insisted I take control, which was a rather contentious conversation to say the least because he didn’t even know I was a pilot. I’d checked weather and knew of a clear space in between solid layers. I called Pan Pan, asked for an increased altitude to VFR-on-Top and vectors to the nearest airport that could give me an ASR approach. We had to backtrack and landed safely with him at the controls and me intently watching our progress. I handled the radios. In the ground we purchased charts. I was shocked, no dumbfounded, that this IFR rated pilot had never heard of the clearance VFR-on-Top nor had he ever heard of an ASR approach. FYI, controllers, at least at one time back in the day, had to practice ASR approaches to remain current, and it was almost always practiced in simulation. The controller and tower that performed the ASR both communicated that they were glad to log one in real world conditions. My failure-not monitoring my pilots IFR preparation, as I “assumed” he had charts, and not just an iPad. I did not mention that I was a pilot for several reasons too long to go into here and I had not been current for two years.

Atc was amazing!!!! Professional and not personal.

Yikes! I’d hate to be in that position. I think I would’ve asked for the ILS instead with vectors… and admit I needed the frequency.

I cannot for the life of me believe that this pilot ever had an IFR rating. He clearly had no business flying IFR, or an approach as a planned, filed plan. It really would seem that he had been flying 'IFR' in the past with an ipad only, and when the inevitable happened and the ipad shut off, he was completely up schittz creek.

Excellent atc, so helpfull even though that was frustratingly bad.

This controller deserves much praise!!! what a great job staying calm and continuing to try to help and keep everyone safe through this less than ideal situation. Kudos!

This has got to be the most patient controller ever.

Back in the mid-80s I was flying IFR in my Piper Arrow III when I had a total aircraft electrical failure. I was flying with a friend in his C182 and used my hand-held and had him baby-sit me until I could get approach on the hand held. He contacted approach and relayed headings and altitude until I got in range of approach. The radio did have VOR capability and approach had me fly headings and altitudes on 15 minute periods to save the radio batteries. The last ten minutes I was able to pick up the VOR and do the approach, finishing with the tower at LGB. Overcast until about 1200' AGL and the runway was right in front when I broke out. Great end to a flight and lots of lessons learned - most important know my assets and only worry about communicate part after aviate and navigate. Oh yea - have all your charts and maps in the flight bag including alternates on every flight.

Painful to listen to. ATC did a great job. Kudos to him.

Not a pilot, only RC planes which I had always visually in sight. Kudos to the ATC who could bring this guy safe to the ground.

"7183V readback please." "Uh yeah, just one minute, I'm trying to pull up the approach plate on my etch-a-sketch and it's a bit bumpy up here!" "Is that drawing utensil IFR approved, sir?" "Uhhh.. umm.. Yeah."

Excellent ATC Controller! How did this Pilot got an IFR clearance? If this is a new IFR pilot, the Designated Pilot Examiner (DPE) and this Pilot need a re-evaluation by the FAA! Why is this Pilot in IMC conditions if he can't fly an RNAV approach using a IFR certified GPS?

What would be worse is hearing a pilot say "I can't fly IFR, I forgot to feed my Tamagotchi "

That controller has the patients of a saint and utter professionalism. Hats off to him.

I learned to fly IFR in the late 1970s. No computer, no iPad.

I'm not really sure what was going on here. He seemed to be saying he was using the iPad for the approach plate and it wasn't working, which is an understandable problem (it would be good to have a paper backup, but I'm sure plenty of pilots don't). The solution to not having an approach plate is for ATC to vector you to the start of the RNAV, though, and the controller tried to do exactly that and it didn't work. There was clearly a bigger problem than simply not having the approach plate.

This must be the most patient controller of all.

Good job ATC

That pilot deserves to get a phone number - but I think the controller should have directly put him on some ILS approach, spelled the name of the intersection for him etc. No reason to discuss the iPad issue over the radio.

What a great controller!

Amazing controller here. Props to you sir

That conversation really had my wondering about the fitness of the pilot. Had my skin crawling.

While ForeFlight is great, it is not any substitute for IFR equipment. I think people find it so handy that they rely on it more and more, rather than using it as a check or aid. Not good here.

I wonder how Kennedy Steve would've handled this.....😂

The “i think he needs a conversation” lol 😭

Man, what a patient controller!

He said he can't identify this "JUNCTION" you're talking about. He should not have anything to do with IFR flight and it sounds like his instructor who signed him off needs severely reprimanded.

People have gotten so much depended on technology nowdays,that whatever skills they have,get nullified.In our example here,and thank God,the ATC controller is our subject's guardian angel,performing his job magnificently!..

If you are instrument rated, or even if you are not, you should be able to maintain your heading and altitude and follow specific vectors from ATC even in IMC. Illegal equipment and/or licensure notwithstanding, you should be able to maintain airspeed, altitude, attitude, and heading as a bare minimum. Presumably, every private pilot should be able to do this.

The pilot be like I’m learning how to land from KZfaq and my IPad tutorials stopped.

Perhaps 83 Victor got his Instrument Rating from Microsoft FlightSim? He is just wandering around, lost in the soup, afraid to make make turns, one autopilot failure away from disaster. SMH... 🤦‍♂

I can see this now on his iPad - "You have a pending update, do you wish to proceed". iPads and such are great navigation tools - for your car.

refreshing to see how professionally this controller handled this situation

Oh man, kudos to that controller for patience, tenacity and professionalism. He could have done no more to help the guy.

Assuming it was just the approach plate on the iPad you lost, declare an emergency and ask the controller to include altitudes and to read you the missed approach procedure. The approach and waypoints should be available on the IFR capable onboard GPS itself.

Good grief... Just fly the ILS.

This video should now be in a module for both pilots and ATCs alike.

I am struggling to understand why this pilot is struggling with putting the approach into his GPS.. This is why a good pilot plans and has some backup sectionals and approach plates to shoot an ILS if needed. I hope this Mooney pilot get it together so we don't have to hear about him from Blancolirio...

Prime example of how technology destroys airmanship. Get rid of the tech and use the instruments. It's gonna happen to drivers before too long.

Controller should know that the ipad is the approach plate instead of using a paper plate!

This was the nicest controller I have ever heard. I didn’t even know they existed.

theoretically, you can legally use an iPad to have a digital approach plate, but even if you lost this plate you should still be able to complete the approach with the aircraft on its own (which is not necessarily legal) but most IFR-certified aircraft have a digital display on which you can pull up an approach plate as well.

Wow, I imagine this is what the radio between the ATC and the girl KZfaqr "pilot" that killed her father and herself in the crash a few weeks ago might have sounded like, if she had used that at all. Absolutely clueless...

and a controller that says "over" ?

Way to Go ATC!! WoooHoooo, OVER

The pilot declared that he had the necessary navigation equipment aboard the aircraft, however, two things are apparent. 1) He did not have access to the necessary documentation (Charts) due to an inoperable iPad and if he had backup (hardcopy or otherwise) he did not say. 2) From his apparent lack of ATC operational and communication awareness, my guess is, he is either not rated or not current for IFR operations. To sum up, no, this was likely not legal based on #2, but we would not know that unless a ramp check had been made following the flight. If the pilot was using the iPad as a primary navigational device that would be illegal as well, albeit difficult to prove with out a FSDO eyewitness in the plane at the time. Unfortunately, even though compelling, the audio may not suffice as evidence. The requirements for IFR include the navigation equipment in verified working order. As for charts, in this case, the aircraft is under 12500 lbs. As such, Part 91.503 does not apply. There are no portable GPS devices accepted by the FAA for primary navigation. They are only to serve as "aids for improved situational awareness". The trouble is that they can also become a distraction if not used correctly or worse fails. I was flying near Denver once when my EFB device simply stopped updating. Everything looked fine since it all goes by very slow in a PA28-180. Fortunately, the primary navigational aid, GNS430, alerted encroachment on the class Bravo and I was able to avoid. My pad showed me no where near the Bravo. Lesson learned! The controller deserves a medal or better, a raise.

I bet this guy buys a new GTN 750xi and gets more training after this experience !!

It's official: We have entered the digitally-induced dark ages. It seems more and more "pilots" are reliant on iPads and autopilots to do the most basic aviation skills for them.

I know he is (probably) flying first but explaining what the faq is going on is important on this one.

The regs are you can use electronic plates if and only if you have a paper backup. Please print the charts you MAY most likely need for intended, alternate and a few nearby destinations. That may seem overkill to some, but I’d rather recycle unused paper (don’t forget you can double side print to cut down on waste), than be found unprepared.

Electronic Flight Bag (EFB) is really nice. It shows airport data and ADS-B and TIS-B airspace data about other aircraft. But, I wouldn’t ever use it as my primary navigation source for instrument landing. If you had an inflight instrument failure I could see using it since it is better than nothing. But going to an airport with precision approach radar is safer, assuming you have sufficient fuel to get there.

Wow if I have a problem I want this atc controller very nice joob

Very very happy with how the controller kept his cool and kept trying to help even though the situation was pretty dumb. Controllers should always prioritize getting people on the ground alive, no matter how stupid they are. very happy to see him keep his cool, and do the right thing.

I have loaded an approach on my foreflight synthetic vision to see how close it was during my actual approach with the planes instruments many times and it was actually right on the money. In an emergency that it was my only option to get down safely I would be happy to try after seeing my testing of it.

I've seen a lot of stern controllers, but this one is actually very calm and polite, I'm quite shocked Sure the pilot may be in the wrong here, but at least everyone remained calm

It was a long time back but when we had paper charts they never ran out of power. Back then most non-precision approaches were flown with no vertical guidance. There was DME but not on every approach. Anyway this guy should have had a backup - likely a phone - or paper charts. Controller did a great job.

iPad charts are fine, but must be at least 50% battery life to be valid, and paper backups should always be a personal minimum

One thing I've learned from all these ATC recordings is that if ATC asks you if it's an emergency it's time to declare an emergency.

ATC was great.

I think there are more pilots than most people realize who are so accustomed to using ForeFlight, Garmin Pilot or others on iPads/Tablets that they have essentially forgotten how to use the standard aircraft GPS. Tne iPad makes it so easy that it gives pilots a false sense of security. Ive flown in medical helicopters that carry an iPad and a backup iPad. If you are really that dependent on it you should have a backup but realistically you should never be that dependent on a single piece of equipment.

Unbelievable 😮

I may be wrong, but If I understood correctly the guy did have the approach plate only in his Ipad. You may have an IFR approved GPS, but you still need to know your MDAs at every single step of the approach. Still kudos to ATC.