How to Choose the Most Efficient Boiler

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How to Choose the Most Efficient Boiler | This Old House

Рет қаралды 110,070

Күн бұрын

The heating bill for the Arlington house reached the thousands. Richard Trethewey and Kevin Bilo are installing a new heating system that will take a huge bite out of that bill. At the heart of the new system is a state of art boiler that goes in today
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The Arlington house will soon be more efficient now that there’s a new boiler getting hooked up. Richard Trethewey shows how old condensing boilers get clogged with sludge in the heat exchanger and burner parts of the system. Newer heating units address the sludge issue with a better design so there’s no place for it to collect. The flue gas gets vented out a plastic pipe through the inside of the house and then up through the roof at the back of the house. Richard and plumber Kevin Bilo connect the flue pipe to the new boiler. There is still much to be done to install the new boiler. Supply and return lines will be run to mixing valves, pumps, and manifolds to connect to radiators and radiant floor heat. Additional piping will feed the hot water tank. This efficient system will work well for a remodeled home.
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This Old House is America’s first and most trusted home improvement show. Each season, we renovate two different historic homes-one step at a time-featuring quality craftsmanship and the latest in modern technology. We demystify home improvement and provide ideas and information so, whether you are doing it yourself or hiring out contractors, you’ll know the right way to do things or the questions to ask. Our experts including general contractor Tom Silva, plumbing and heating expert Richard Trethewey, landscape contractor Jenn Nawada, master carpenter Norm Abram, and host Kevin O’Connor give you the tools you need to protect and preserve your greatest investment-your home.
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How to Choose the Most Efficient Boiler | This Old House
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Пікірлер: 127

@rafaelarias9759 3 жыл бұрын

Richards favorite line: "I've got a cutaway here..."

@stephendrummer1542 3 жыл бұрын

I gotta wonder who lugs the cutaway into the basement and then later lugs it out.

@t1n4444 3 жыл бұрын

@@stephendrummer1542 Production runner?

@penguins9645 3 жыл бұрын

@@stephendrummer1542 At least it weighs half as much as the complete unit

@myid9876543 3 жыл бұрын

Looking forward to the MRI episode where Richard shows us a cutaway of a Richard and tells us all how he works

@NathansHVAC Жыл бұрын

That boiler is the Vitocrossal 300 CU3A with the 79 gal Vitocell 300-V domestic hot water storage tank. The vent piping is PolyPro from DuraVent. The advantage of this type of high mass boiler is that it doesn't require a high flow secondary loop. The existing pumps and loop from a cast iron boiler will work fine.

@MustPassTruck Жыл бұрын

Thanks. I have been researching boilers to replace the nightmare system the last owner of my house put in. You would think TOH would have shown the boiler maker label after they supplied the cut away model for them.

@robertjosan 19 күн бұрын

Is this an "on-demand" oil burner?

@erichardy1988 5 ай бұрын

My buddy went to this job and had to rip everything out due to the insane control system and they used some sort of new plastic piping they probably got a deal on and they went out of business so we had to rip everything out. Good job guys

@billiamc1969 3 жыл бұрын

We hooked up a super efficient Triangle Tube boiler that hangs on the wall...been working excellent for 11 years without a single issue...we also use soft water and paid a fraction of the unit they are installing here.

@scotttovey 3 жыл бұрын

The Homeowners didn't want that, so they got this.

@myid9876543 3 жыл бұрын

Looking forward to the MRI episode where Richard shows us a cutaway of a Richard and tells us all how he works

@vincenzotesoro1169 2 жыл бұрын

It’s great to get an understanding of these boilers when purchasing a house with a gas fired boiler thanks very much really appreciate it

@dahirali4045 2 жыл бұрын

000

@robertyoung1777 Жыл бұрын

There is so much to break down. Very interesting.

@flyingmachineworks Жыл бұрын

96% is great and about the top. But when it comes down to it cost per btu. Oil fired units are hitting low 90’s now and have more btu per gallon than propane. So once you factor that and the extra maintenance and that comes with a modcon boiler, are they cheaper over the life compared to a good cast iron boiler?

@macmorgan6685 Жыл бұрын

And how long is it going to take to amortize the cost?

@spiet7380 11 ай бұрын

In Michigan right now fuel oil is just over 4 dollars a gallon, I'm not sure about propane but I think it's less than 1.50 a Gallon..

@dtbroad5862 3 жыл бұрын

I wish they would tell you the cost of the install and equipment. It has to be upwards of fifteen grand plus.

@QnQoooo 3 жыл бұрын

I just installed a boiler for my customer, It is 5 zones including the indirect water heater. Just the parts alone costed me 11000 dollars.

@tombomombodombo 3 жыл бұрын

This would be 30k

@miriamvivo4279 3 жыл бұрын

30,000 and up

@tuppersdad 3 жыл бұрын

Its all nice when tv pays for it.

@MrRatanshah 2 жыл бұрын

secret as is often donated. You do not get Donated unit.

@victoryfirst2878 2 жыл бұрын

Does the three feet above the chimney flue vent pipe take into account the peak A part of the roof ??? Thanks

@paulsmith2931 10 ай бұрын

I’m amazed the fan on the boiler will push the poc’s that far with so many bends on the flue, in the uk manufacturers state maximum lengths in meters, deducting for elbows and 45 bends, also that flue looks like standard drainage pipe?

@Keegeth 2 жыл бұрын

That’s a viessmann boiler. They make very good boilers. Not sure what the model is though.

@jochimbenschneider1915 Жыл бұрын

What is the best boiler for a newer home like mine? I have a Seer 18 Electric heat pump and air handler. Seems like it costs several hundred yearly to keep this heat pump running right and they only last 10-15 years.

@tomb375 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Richard, I'm Huntington NY, on Long Island. I need a new HVAC system. I have oil (Dirty) and want to convert to gas, also I have no duct work. Oil tank is almost empty. What do you recommend, when can you come? Thank you for all the great shows over the YEARS!!!

@flyingmachineworks Жыл бұрын

Buderus oil boiler or a system 2000 boiler. Both reaching 90% or better and are a lower install cost

@naturalhealing9970 2 жыл бұрын

So which new boiler is this???

@tomb375 2 жыл бұрын

What Type and Manufacture burner is this?

@MrRatanshah 2 жыл бұрын

Connecting the boiler to a storage tank and then distribute to multiple manifolds may be even better as there is only one source calling for " HOT " water. Stored Hot water can supply heat to domestic supply and also radiant ( higher mass system creation ). Not sure of the brand of the Boiler shown.

@bryandewby 2 жыл бұрын

Viessmann boiler, and Viessmann indirect DHW tank

@ranger178 Жыл бұрын

all the high efficiency boilers tried to get away from large volumes of water because you waste energy heating a lot of water when you just need a little heat in spring fall seasons especially then heat is wasted as mid-day it is too warm in house

@flyingmachineworks Жыл бұрын

But if you’re running micro zones and can’t shed the btu at the same rate as the lowest turn down ratio then you short cycle. Buffer tanks are a great way to prevent short cycling the unit and reduce the number of start/ stops

@mr.dahliaking.202 3 жыл бұрын

That grey hub seal flue pipe.. If it were installed in Europe and ran trough a cavity in a wall some plumber after 20 years would come to add let's say a new bathroom, he would find the grey pipe in the wall and assume its a drain pipe and connect a toilet to it and next thing you know there poop flowing from your boiler XD

@t1n4444 3 жыл бұрын

Hardly!!! In twenty years time no one in Europe will be using gas because "we" are saving the planet!!! Any exhausting from a gas boiler would have been done properly ... via a flexible stainless steel flue pipe ... to reduce our consumption of single use plastics. By then we'll all be using green electricity, including nuclear, with air so clean you could breathe it if you had to. Fossil fuels will be history and the land will be artfully covered in wind turbines or solar farms. Homes will be built entirely of straw bales with an R value approaching infinity. You own body heat will keep the houses at a comfortable 37C, forever, until we really get this insulation thing sorted. Global warming will mean we're all tricked up with AC anyway ... though goodness where we'll dump the heat from that lot. And of course a lot of people will be living on water, seeing as the Arctic will be just another sea and Antarctica will be just another massive island, like the Isle of Wight or Australia. Everyone knows that.

@martinliehs2513 2 жыл бұрын

@@t1n4444 Just read your comment after the COP26 shindig. Apparently, "global warming" is happening so fast, even Canada will be shutting down its oil and gas industry.

@t1n4444 2 жыл бұрын

@@martinliehs2513 Indeed. We can only hope the folk who rely on the fossil fuel industry for their livelihood are moved into other decent and decently paid employment.

@bryandewby 2 жыл бұрын

Europe is where polypropylene pipe was developed for flue gas venting, I highly doubt what you said would occur

@BM-pl7vv 9 ай бұрын

Looking for new & simple direct vent (no chimney) gas boiler (80% efficiency is fine) that has best shot to last 20 to 25 years and is low maintenance - zero bells and whistles. My focus is not efficiency. Priority = low maintenance and longevity. Currently running 1991 Slant Fin V90 - 80% Direct Vent - baseboard forced hot water - has been excellent, but time to change out. Thoughts, guys/gals? TY!

@tomb375 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Richard, What is the manufacture of this system? I need a new hydronic system, I currently have oil baseboard heat and want to switch to gas. I would love to hear from you and your thoughts.

@flyingmachineworks Жыл бұрын

Why do you want to switch to gas? My new oil fired unit is 90% efficient. Oil has more btu pre gallon than propane or NG. Would be 10+ years before you saw returns on a gas unit once you factor the increase install cost and increased maintenance of these newer gas units.

@tony102385 Жыл бұрын

Viessmann vitocrossal 300

@Stevenowski 3 жыл бұрын

Wow! What a system.

@MrLilram123 3 жыл бұрын

I love the cutaways

@mikeyo1990 10 ай бұрын

What kind of boiler is that?

@kylepost4 3 жыл бұрын

This heating system is worth more than me.

@suespony 3 жыл бұрын

What brand is this boiler, and what is the cost of just the boiler, not installed price

@jackhubley958 2 жыл бұрын

What is the brand of the boiler ?

@lukpaw4725 Жыл бұрын

What is the brand of boiler they are putting in ? I havent seen this plate design condensing yet

@danielkennedy8530 3 жыл бұрын

What was the total cost of the system and installation? Also what is the roi?

@tombomombodombo 3 жыл бұрын

Roi is infinity years

@rpmuri 3 жыл бұрын

Return on investment

@ranger178 Жыл бұрын

thousands of dollars for unit thousands more to install just about time it is dying you are probably not even on energy savings unless gas is crazy high priced

@ThePeavey23 10 ай бұрын

All that for just heat. I’ll do duct work for heat and ac also filters air.. boilers are obsolete

@davidlampe4153 Жыл бұрын

Richard if there’s a known problem with wall hung condenser boilers why aren’t the practices changing to avoid the problem you are describing? Wouldn’t be prudent to at least flush out the entire system before hooking up a new system? Wouldn’t it be prudent to place at least one filter before the heat exchanger for at least one heating season so the heat exchanger doesn’t clog up with fines from the old radiator’s and return piping?

@flyingmachineworks Жыл бұрын

Wall hung units require yearly flushing to descale. But no amount of flushing can combat poor water quality for these systems.

@louf7178 3 жыл бұрын

Isn't the flue gas condensate very corrosive? Bad for clay or cast iron drainage pipe?

@tuppersdad 3 жыл бұрын

Yes

@MrRatanshah 2 жыл бұрын

YES. You can add Neutralizer in the drain circuit. ( condensate is acidic )

@moutrap 3 жыл бұрын

Its probably all fine and code compliant since they are doing it but I don't feel so good about these snapping pipes with no glue

@Marcel_Germann 3 жыл бұрын

Trust me, this will last. Using this for decades here in Germany as drain pipes inside of the house, it can handle hot water and agressive chemicals better than PVC. Outside of the house we use PVC-U (unplasticized PVC), also not glued. The gaskets inside of the pipes are so tight, you won't get the pipe into them without lubrication. You see that in one part of the video at 3:21, the guy is lubricating the fitting. Normally you put them together until the fitting is completely inserted, then make a marking with a pencil. Pull the fitting back round about 1cm or 1/2" if you want ;-). That will give the pipes space for expansion and contraction caused by temperature changes.

@QnQoooo 3 жыл бұрын

It got a gasket in it to seal the joint. not sure how long the gasket will last.

@Marcel_Germann 3 жыл бұрын

@@QnQoooo If they use the same ones we use here on the other side of the pond estimated 50 to 60 years. Warranty is 40 years. It's designed the way it can handle 95°C (203°F) hot water without damage...so it is robust...

@sentient8146 11 ай бұрын

Holy Christ! All I'm trying to do is upgrade my heat and hot water systems.

@mattvaitkunas8319 8 ай бұрын

So how do I choose the most efficient boiler?

@SuperM1687 3 жыл бұрын

So what is the name of this boiler? Is it still considered a condensing boiler?

@darrinmc 3 жыл бұрын

Looks like a Viessmann Vitocrossal 300. It is a condensing boiler. It's different than the wall hung units in that it holds more water, which allows the burner to run longer. Reduces cycling. These "super efficient" boilers are good at saving fuel, not so good at saving money.

@rupe53 3 жыл бұрын

@@darrinmc ... pay me now or pay me later. A fancy boiler is probably twice the money up front, but what's a couple of grand over 20 - 30 years if it will save hundreds on the heating bill each year? As for the rest of the system, I feel there's too much high tech to be trouble free for the next 30 years, especially when it comes to smart circulators and mixing valves. When there's a problem at 2 am do you think you will get a guy with enough experience, or the kid who is grabbing for all the OT he can get? The old fashion low tech approach was a separate tank with it's own t-stat for the radiant zones. The boiler's job was to keep that tank at say 100 degrees with a simple on / off cycle. Size the tank right and everything is golden!

@SuperM1687 3 жыл бұрын

@@darrinmc As a homeowner its still confusing to me. My local HVAC company quoted me 14k to change out my boiler with a Triangle Tube. Only to find out these boilers have issues similar to what this video points out. If I want to buy a new boiler and save on operating costs which one do I buy?

@lordwu5952 3 жыл бұрын

@@SuperM1687 Weil-mcclain GV90. 92% eff. no maintenance needed. 30 year life.

@cavy95 2 жыл бұрын

I’d rather go with a cheap boiler and use a wood stove as a supplement.

@STXVIEC 3 жыл бұрын

I'm considering to install a tankless hot water heater in my home.. it was built in 1990 however now i'm worried the existing pipes might clog the tankless heater with that gew he showed... Any suggestions? Pipes are all copper

@Siomasays 3 жыл бұрын

Fernox, magnetic separator, strainer

@MrRatanshah 2 жыл бұрын

Go ahead with Tankless water heater. Is the best thing possible. I had Bosch now with Rinnai unit.....Flawless ...4 yrs old ....reverse flushed one and is the best for use......I and my daughter take long showers (30 Min) never runout of hot water.

@joearchey6410 3 жыл бұрын

How much for the copper stack?

@rupe53 3 жыл бұрын

Joe ... those stacks are strictly for looks. Best guess is they are sheet copper formed to fit over the plastic pipes, and likely cheaper than trying to find 5" copper waste pipe with an angled flange to met the roof.

@rajun1231 2 жыл бұрын

Richard, what is brand name of the boiler you installed in that house?

@quelragazzodeigiochi9166 Жыл бұрын

Viessman

@pikminlord343 3 жыл бұрын

Neat

@mrbadguy4929 3 жыл бұрын

How much for this fancy box? Looks too complicated.

@ML-lg4ky 3 жыл бұрын

Why fail to mention Viessmann? I would have said Viessmann 10 times is this bit. Nice work however!

@ranger178 Жыл бұрын

the high efficiency boilers will fall apart right about the time the ridiculously high price is almost paid off by the energy savings

@joeschlotthauer840 3 жыл бұрын

Well, if we have to ask, We can't afford it...

@alexbornstein6078 3 жыл бұрын

Aye Bilo I might co-op there

@blackpine6693 3 жыл бұрын

The most efficient is also the most expensive.....and most expensive to repair......is the savings over time worth the initial expense ......think not......

@bubcat54 3 жыл бұрын

Then it breaks and nobody knows how to fix it. The parts and labor costs are a fortune. Then, it only lasts 8 years. Your better off with a low efficiency boiler. Mine is 53 years old. Came with the house and I've spent less than a grand on it in 30 years. Plus, its so simple a child could work on it.

@mtoto78 Жыл бұрын

😂😅 I love your assumption that nobody's keeping up with how to work on these things... You clearly don't understand the industry that you're talking smack about

@bubcat54 Жыл бұрын

@@mtoto78 Thats coming from the 3 technicians that I called for bids on a mini split air conditioning system for my house. I was actually interested in replacing my boiler only because they all do bundling deals. All three worked on boilers and furnaces. None recommended switching due to the reasons said. Two of the three said they only had one guy that was willing to go to Texas for the two week class needed to install (correctly) and maintain the units they sold. The third said: "we get more calls asking us to take them out than to put them in." Now either I'm lying to you, or they all didn't know what they were talking about.

@mtoto78 Жыл бұрын

@@bubcat54 Cool story, unfortunately it runs completely counter to what I've found for being in the industry for 20 years.

@bubcat54 Жыл бұрын

@@mtoto78 You obviously profit very well from your advice. But do the math. Calculate the savings vs the investment, but don't forget the required maintenance (lest voiding the warranty) vs my boiler that cost me nothing for the past 50 years. The enegy efficiency increase of 17% minus the cost of 8 grand, minus the cost of maintenance, vs zero dollars to keep what I have. Keep in mind, had I bundled and installed one I would have done nothing but add an $8,000 cost, financed at 5.9% three years ago, to save $15 a month on heating for 6 months of the year. You must think you're dealing with a moron. I haven't even touched on the fact that my current boiler will still outlive the estimated 10 year lifespan of the crap you want to convince people they need. Go grift someplace else brother. I have a pocket full of money indicating your theory is one of a fool. How much easier can I make it for you to understand? Grifter.

@macmorgan6685 Жыл бұрын

Having once upon a time worked in the oil heat industry and having a working 40yrWeil McLain boiler in the basement, I’m always interested in the new technology out there. I’d love to have the need and the resources to do a new system but the cost outweighs the savings. My system uses cast iron baseboard radiation (radiators?) and I probably use about 500 gal/yr. It’s unfortunate that our current government is trying kill the fossil fuel industry and try to run the country on electricity… I don’t think it’ll work but then who am I to outthink our great government! But thanks for the video.

@christophermm23 3 жыл бұрын

What? Ohhh, i get what he meant, call a professional. 😉

@SixTwoHemi 3 жыл бұрын

4” copper vent pipe 👀 $$$$$$$$$$$$$

@darrinburkowske5162 3 жыл бұрын

Cost a fortune to fix if I ever breaks down

@RedwoodRider 3 жыл бұрын

How many different single-points of failure are there in this "system"? Perfect is the enemy of good.

@harrybaulz666 Жыл бұрын

Misleading title how to chose nothin? I used to watch this show until the uber expensive properties and home appliances that the rest of us cant afford

@philipwall1025 3 жыл бұрын

Who makes it would have been great???DUH?

@miriamvivo4279 3 жыл бұрын

Don't trust anyone. Got ripped off too many times.

@Moment2Forever 3 жыл бұрын

The title is so misleading

@donghammer 3 жыл бұрын

There are alot better boilers than viessmann. They are very efficient, but impossible to get parts for, and a pain to work on

@tomf9292 2 жыл бұрын

TOTALLY incorrect info. You just work for CNN

@michaelsmith9034 2 жыл бұрын

I get paid to fix these and sometimes installed. I wouldn’t have one in my home.

@Odrunkmonkey 3 жыл бұрын

Just a reminder, Trump had tried a few times to do away with the PBS budget. Guess he hates TOH....

@louf7178 3 жыл бұрын

Correlation is not causation

@davidnord1979 3 жыл бұрын

yeah but at the time didnt you say it was" STATE OF THE ART" HEATING????? im calling bs

@leasttrending 3 жыл бұрын

What codes.......codes suck if i own my house i am gonna do what i dam well want to do

@t1n4444 3 жыл бұрын

Hmm, is that wise? Your insurer's loss adjustor turns up following a claim and might want to see paperwork.

@leasttrending 3 жыл бұрын

@@t1n4444 ill show them my lowes recipets

@leasttrending 3 жыл бұрын

@@Kevin-mp5of no i have safes fire proof

@rupe53 3 жыл бұрын

Least Trending ... A major problem with that attitude.... is there's a 90% chance some bank owns a chunk of your home and if you ever try to sell the place there will be another bank, that may not agree to finance the deal. There may be additional frustration if you ever have an insurance claim and they find the fault to be a code violation.

@t1n4444 3 жыл бұрын

@@leasttrending Very droll.