I have recently jumped ship from being a pre tribber. When people would speak of the rapture I would get an uneasy feeling in my gut. The more I would pray and ask for direction and God started leading me to research and to discern for myself, not what others were saying. I now firmly believe that we must endure not escape. Jesus endured the cross for us, so we must endure til the end for him. He never said it would be easy but that he would be with us til the end. I’ve also learned that the West is the only ones that believe in a rapture. Either way I’m ready to meet Jesus, but I’m prepared to endure if it comes to it as well.

1 Thessalonians 4:17.... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Interesting take. I still hold to a PreTrib rapture. 1. Because in the days of Noah they were living life as usual before the flood. Rev 6 will be so bad there will no longer be any life as usual. Same with the days of Lot... life as usual, then calamity struck. I do believe Christ is coming to rescue his bride before the great tribulation. 2.The tribulation will be a time of God pouring out His Wrath or anger upon the Earth. God is not angry with me. I am worthy because of the work of Christ, to escape all these things. 3.Telling me that I will have to endure the great tribulation gives me no comfort. How can you comfort me with these words if you are telling me I will have to see most of the world be destroyed? All that to say, If you are a believer, we can talk about it more during the 1000 year reign. As for me, I'm going to meet Him in the air and go back home with Him, like Elijah and Enoch.

I was a Sunday School teacher and the end-times came up in our studies. I taught from the Assembly of God material and saw it as convoluted. At that point I began my own study of WHAT JESUS SAID and history. There is no indication in the Bible that there will be a 3rd coming of Christ, so He is only coming back to mete out justice. When He does, 1Thess. 4:13-17 will be fulfilled. All people will receive immortal bodies when Jesus returns. Some will live forever with Jesus and some will not, period.

Believe that the Lord Jesus died for you and He rose for you. He wiped away your sins. Hang on to your faith and give thanks to our Heavenly Father. Ask for wisdom from the Holy Spirit

I stopped believing in the pre-trib Rapture when I read the Bible for myself with the Holy Spirit teaching instead of listening to men. Jesus clearly says the tares go first. Matthew 13:30 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. John 17:15 “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”

I'm very new to this concept. No rapture. Was brought up in the "pre-tribulation" thought. Then reading scripture I was taken back. Literally by the word TAKEN. I started researching and found "taken", "snared", is used when referring to sin and wicked. Then "left behind" was righteous. Same words during Noah's day that Jesus spoke. Jesus also told us to endure. Why would I need to endure if I'm going to be ruptured? The Diciples had to endure. I'm not even in the same category as they so I shouldn't get special treatment.

My Southern Baptist mother believes the (secret) Rapture *is* her "Blessed Hope," and not the Resurrection from the Dead that Christ became the First Fruits of. It's like she fears persecution so much (PTSD) that she *needs* to believe the Rapture is any day now in order to function normally in life. Every day, she's "studying" astrology charts using every ounce of her confirmation bias to find a modicum of meaning in how the sky matches some obscure Jewish feast description or biblical passage. In short, it's a mental disorder, and it's sad to see. She's clearly intelligent, but because she was raised on this belief, she can't accept Orthodoxy or Catholic doctrine that spans back a millenia and a half. No, somehow she believes the Church Fathers *and* the Apostles believed Christ would whisk them off into the air at any moment, *but for some reason,* they spread the Gospel unto death with the vehemence that only a Saint could have.. I guess my point here is that most often, this false Rapture doctrine deters one from living like Christ and uniting as a Church family because, *at any given moment in your life,* God's gonna break you outta the Matrix, so to speak. In short, it's religious escapism.

I used to believe in the "secret" rapture because I believed false teachers and never did my own research. I recently read the "rapture" passages on my own and discovered that those passages do not demonstrate a secret "rapture." 2Th2 opened my eyes.

I once believed in the rapture, because that is what I was taught. I was surprised to discover nowhere does the bible say the church will be raptured to heaven.

I also believed in the Rapture, from hearing preachers on TBN back in the 90s...... but than realised that from the beginning people and even people of God went thru tribulation and trials, why would we be sparred????? That convinced me...

In 1976, when I was 13 years old, I had a wide awake, real, in full color VISION of the Lord's Return... We lived out in the country in the middle of dusty plowed fields, dirt roads and woods in south Georgia. Everything looked kind of brown and crispy, like it needed rain bad. The corn field across the road in front of the house was starting to turn brown and die. I went to my bedroom, which faced out the front side of the house and looked out onto our front yard, which had a semi-circular dirt driveway and beside the left entrance was an old dogwood tree which had to be at least a hundred years old. Highway 341 ran from east to west in front of our house, which faced north, and the cornfield I spoke of earlier was on the other side of the highway. There was a slight rise in the middle of this field and you could not see the trees on the other side, so it looked like an ocean of corn that went off into the horizon. As I lay across my bed looking out the window, contemplating what I saw before me, I began to hear music in the distance. I specifically heard it in my right ear and the direction from which it came made me think of the high school band which practiced several miles southeast from where I lived. When conditions were right we could hear the band playing, but usually only heard the faint beat of drums. This sounded like trumpets and as I was thinking this to myself, I began to notice the music getting louder and louder, coming closer and closer, very quickly. Within a few seconds the sound wasn't just something that was exterior, but it was inside my head as well, reverberating throughout my entire body. It was so loud and it sounded like lightning crashed directly over my head and, in that split second, the trumpet sound thundered throughout my body and throughout the entire world...everything went dark and my bed and the earth shook violently. In a flash, I was no longer lying on my bed, but I was standing outside my bedroom window in the front yard and I beheld the scene in front of me with tremendous awe. It was still my front yard, only now everything was different. It seemed as if my entire range of vision was a huge 3D movie screen and I was in the middle of it. The trumpets continued to sound and I saw that the blue, sunny sky had turned black and the clouds churned and the wind blew with a violence that I had never experienced. The corn field was now a sea of wheat that was golden brown and ripe for harvest and I could see every stalk of wheat individually, billions of them. And I watched as the wind thrashed the wheat until it was beaten down by the storm. I now know that the Bible speaks several times about, in the end time, when the wheat is ripe for harvest, how the wheat will be separated from the tares. The tares are gathered and bundled together for burning and the wheat is gathered into the barn. Then I noticed the dogwood tree. It was mid-July, so of course I know there should not have been any blossoms on it, they usually bloom around Easter...but the tree was in full bloom. I had never seen anything like this. You couldn't see any leaves on the tree because of the millions of dogwood blossoms. It looked as if it were lit from within, by a glowing whitest of white, neon light and it glowed gloriously against the darkened sky. Now, I know the Bible says no man knows the day nor hour that Jesus will return, but if we watch for the signs, we can know the season. I have always felt that He might come back in the spring when the dogwood tree is in bloom. Of all the things that could have been highlighted in a vision; why the dogwood tree? I believe there is a specific message here. (Update: recently, I prayed about this and I feel the Lord placed into my spirit that this represents the fullness of the gentiles coming in). Just as I was taking all of this in, lightning filled the sky and the trumpets thundered over head again and in an instant there appeared two angels. They were dressed in white robes, facing each other up in the air and blowing golden trumpets. They were huge and filled the sky in front of me and I knew that the entire world must be seeing this as well. When I say huge, I mean like the size of the highest mountains, literally. I didn't think the trumpets could get any louder, but they grew louder still, building to a great crescendo and I heard a great shout that was louder than anything that you could imagine. And with that shout, it's as if the earth fell silent, the black, violent clouds began to roll back onto themselves from the center of the northeastern sky and I saw light in the distance. It was more a combination of light and clearing of the clouds in the distance that got my attention. As I looked up at this shaft of light and clearing sky, I saw what seemed to be fluttering and movement in the distance. As it came into view, I saw Jesus on a white horse and behind him were millions of angels and saints on white horses. It was at this moment, when I realized what I was seeing, that it disappeared and I was back in my room lying on my bed. Everything was back to normal and I was again looking out at a bright, sunny day.

Thank you so very much for this wonderful eye-opening truth.

Years ago Dr. Walter Martin gave a lecture on this. He took a historical pre millennial view. His arguments were so convincing and as I further studied the scriptures and read another book by Hank Hanegraf called the Apocalypse Code, I abandoned the dispensational position. I still am not sure what eschatological camp I would put myself in, all I know is that He is coming again! Lots of interesting theories out there though.

Point number two has been a red flag for me as well. In fact after I looked into the origin of rapture theology, that about did it for me. I find it so disturbing how much of the evangelical church just takes this as fact without question. Its a sacred cow for sure.

Thank you. No one ever cites a person in the 1700s, 1600s, 1500s and back who preached, taught, or wrote about a pre-tribulation rapture.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

Love it!!! love it!! thank you

I've heard so much back n forth on this topic...I'll just be happy with what happens!!

Thanks for the video. I was taught about the rapture. But, while pondering about it, I came to the same conclusions. Glad to hear I'm not the only one.

Even dough Noah and his family where saved on the ark, they also had to go threw trials and tribulations while they where on the ark.

Excellent breakdown; thank you. I subscribed to your channel-keep up the good work!

Well said. I've been a no rapture person for about 15 years, and it's amazing how when you present this information to people, how they blow you off. Thanks for posting.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1, is "the coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him" the same event. DO they happen at the same time?

I had what you would call “rapture anxiety” and living in fear that my dreams won’t come to of buying a sailing boat and starting a family and travelling I still live with my family *im 20 yes i want to move out* so I searched why it wasn’t possible and I found out it was made in the 1800’s and now I feel a great relief and have been praising my great God Jesus Almighty Christ, if I die I understand but waiting for that consistent “any moment” is anxiety. I even taped pages together for rapture instructions on my wall so in the event of the rapture my family would know what’s happening God Bless

Thank you for the 3 reasons. They seem so convincing. Besides, why did the apostles tell believers to hold fast to their faith in times of trouble if there is no tribulation for them.

The biggest mistake that No rapture people make is mixing when scripture is for the Church or for when it is directed at disobedient Israel. If you mix the two you get a real mess. Israel and the Church are not the same and scripture clearly separates events particularly to their futures.

I don't agree, but I like the video. “Then there shall be two men in the field; one will be taken, and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken, and one will be left. Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.-Matthew 24:40-42 I think this scripture is referring to the rapture. There are many mysteries in the end times we will never know, but blessed are they that study the word of God!

Well said and explained, thank you!

The church i grew up in was obsessed with the end times, us kids were terrified of it, growing up with nightmares about being left behind. Which gets caught up with trying to behave right out of fear, instead of having God change us from the Inside out, so we are obedient out of love and knowing what He wants for us isn't out of guilt and shame, but because He wants us to have an over abundance of blessing and what he has for us is always better then what we plan. I can relate with the not even knowing we had an option to opt out of rapture theology, until 12 years ago when I found out its not biblical & the scriptures to support it, didn't even sound like what I was always told it was gonna be. The more I built my own relationship with Jesus and stopped just listening to other Christian's I realized how backwards we get it. We go to others, who do the same thing instead of going to the source. I now understand it more, because there's alot of Pastors that got real comfortable in their role in the church, they forgot Jesus is the head not them. Not all of them but alot. I got excited to understand how much scripture is taken out of context and to start walking in truth not allowing anyone to weaponize scripture and use it to manipulate me. So it was a real wake up call to all of a sudden have my church family turn on me, the more I discovered freedom all these things I was being told I was getting but I was miserable and didn't know the 1st thing about grace or love. And definitely not about the resurrection. Read 1 Corinthians 15 the whole chapter out of the message and I pray God reveals what He showed me, because it's even better then I ever imagined, and He lead me to your video to show me my little family isn't alone, and to share the excitement of our future hope with Heaven on Earth. It's our own personal Eden with Jesus by our side as we honor our Father together. And so much more then anything.... I hope you respond when you see what I'm talking about

So the Spirit lifted me up and took me away, and I went in bitterness, in the heat of my spirit; but the hand of the LORD was strong upon me. 15 Then I came to the captives at Tel Abib, who dwelt by the River Chebar; and I sat where they sat, and remained there astonished among them seven days.

People hate it when I tell them I don't believe in rapture theory...

My journey was much the same as yours as it never occurred to me there was any other choice but pre trib rapture OR you were just a goofball Christian. I was pretty entrenched in my position growing up Baptist and having been fortified by Hal Lindsey's wildly popular Late Great Planet Earth that came out when I was 19. It's only been since hitting 65 years of age that I began to see the problems with the silly excapism doctrine of a secret rapture. Amazingly, so many other devout Christians even mistake this as as salvation issue and remain learning resistant to any better understanding of Scripture.

YESSS!!! Thank you!!! Im new to your channel but subbed! I hope you can further discuss the detriment this theory can have to believers.

The Bible speaks throughout about resurrection, over 40 times. There is no rapture, there never was. Glad you finally see this.

God Bless you...Thank you.

Jesus told his disciples if they persecute you in one city flee to the next. When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies flee to the hills. He told Paul in the temple to flee because the Jews won't listen to him. Fleeing is not spoken against in the Bible. David fleed Saul. Elijah fleed Jezzabel. I disagree that Noah was left behind, it was Noah who was floating above the surface of the waters which was the means of God's wrath against the wicked. The wicked were left behind and were distoryed in the flood. Lot was taken out of the cities and those who remained were distoyed when the wrath of God fell on the wicked. In Acts 1 Jesus bodily arose into heaven. Only the disciples saw Him. There is no report of every eye on earth seeing Him ascend. Then the angel said the same way you have seen Him ascend He will return. ?could that mean a return for his own? Just as the ark was filled then the Lord shut the door, before the flood started could this be the same. The rapture then the door, in heaven, is shut. Just as Jesus is now in heaven with a resurrected body so the church could be bodily resurrected and wait in heaven, until the Christ and the bride are revealed to the earth. All creation eagerily awaits the revealing of the sons of God. While the door is shut the bowls of wrath are poured unto the inhabitants of the earth.. then the Lord along with his church return to rule on the earth. At that point every eye will see Him.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Finally!!! Thank you!!!!!! Exactly!!!!!

I was raised w/ dispensationalist beliefs as well. When you're raised w/an idea it becomes second nature to read that idea into the text of scripture. Then, in order to be successful with exegesis, you have to be intentional with reading the text itself so that those ideas don't manifest automatically. Then ask "does this idea come out of scripture or are we trying to place this idea into scripture?" I read 1 Thes 4 as entirely compatible with the Second Coming, or the parousia. Nothing in the text differentiates that event from other passages that most would concur describe the parousia (e.g. 1 Cor 15). So why read a novel event into it? All the other end times verses seem compatible with a "parousia only" view as well, so if we wish to be parsimonious there's no need to add rapture to parousia to interpret scripture.

Glad I came across this. Learned some things.

Most Translation say "caught up" in chapter 4. Interestingly Latin Vulgate uses rapiemur for caught up or snatch up. I am no Latin expert but appears rapiemur has something to do with the word Rapture!

My story is much like yours. I believed the rapture (dispensational) view of prophecy most of my life. I believed it because that’s all I was ever taught, and I did not know enough to challenge it, nor did I even know that I could challenge it. After getting interested into studying the Bible to validate my beliefs for myself, I found that my view of prophecy was COMPLETELY wrong. It was a journey, I am still working it all out, but I had to let go of all the things I had always known. I now hold a preterist view of prophecy and I am confident that my beliefs are Biblical. EVERY Christian should study the Bible and know it for themselves. We are all accountable to God to know Him and HIs word. Most Christians DO NOT do this, I was one of them... NEVER again. Thank you for your video!

Mark 13:27 “And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”

Excellent work!

Finally, I found someone that agrees with me as well

The verses that I found the most difficult to let go of the pre-millennial view though, is Matthew 24:40-41 ...one taken and the other left (2 examples given). Really, that passage is the under-pinning thesis of A Thief In The Night series and The Left Behind series. I haven't actually seen The left behind movies, after so many views of A thief in the Night and sequels. (Surely someone remembers the theme song to A Thief In The Night was: I Wish We'd All Been Ready by the late, great Larry Norman). These two verses are fundamentally (and crucially) Rapture verses. So, what did Jesus mean when He said: Two men in a field, one is taken and one is left, two women grinding with a hand mill, one is taken and one is left?

Question for you: the eternal home and dwelling place of believers will be in the New Jerusalem on this physical earth correct?

I was raised Roman Catholic and there was nothing in my teachings that talked about a rapture. It's an invention by evangelical preachers whose congregations have only learned of the bible through their "preacher" and not actually reading it themselves.

Thank you for this message. The Lord gave me eyes to see and ears to hear. I tried explaining no rapture to my pentecostal family and I'm sure they are still praying for my soul.

Thank you for this...there is not much regarding this. From the moment I was saved at 14 years old I prayed and asked God please do not let me be here in end times. I had so much hope for the rapture. Asking God please let me be one of the ones that is taken. At 58 years old and seeing what is currently playing out in the world and be so heart broken over it all; once again I have been asking God please take me I do not want to be here for this. I simply do not feel strong enough to overcome what is bound to happen to us Christians. Never the less I have recently found on one of the Christian book reviews a comment stating with a link discussing why there will be no rapture and it was something that was created to further confuse us Christians with false teaching. I did go on to understand more only to have had something happen during that time I was studying ...lost the link. When I went back to look it was no longer there nor was it in m history. Ever since than I have been looking to understand truth. I was saved at 14 but it took until I was 56 to really understand even if I was saved I wasn't promised as I continued to live against Gods commands. I also did no read my bible and have a personal relationship with Jesus/God. All this to say I am still learning, and I must say now struggling with this thought. As it means I will possibly have to be here when it all goes down and that scares me. I have read an understood the terrible deaths of believers and followers in Christ from the apostles. I am not also seeing how evil this world truly is and there will be no mercy for us as Christians and true lovers of God's word and God. I am scared.

Very well done,!

Amen ❤Blessings brother

Good points here-thanks for your perspective. When I read or have read the Thessalonians text in the past I just didn’t “see” a rapture there at all. I’ve always felt Paul was talking about the 2nd coming here. When presented with this text as “justifying” or explaining the doctrine of the rapture, I just felt “it’s a stretch.” Folks will believe what their itching ears want to believe. Another reason I have found it difficult to accept the rapture is that such an event would lead to massive chaos and that is simply inconsistent with the view of God as presented in the Bible. And lastly it’s been the dominant theme of the Bible that we must go through times of trial & tribulation not be whisked away. Instead the Bible tells us to trust & depend on the providence of God. Again I simply don’t see a rapture as a biblical alternative to human trials. In Jesus’s Olivet discourse we hear of no such view & and I think if the rapture was to occur, surely our Lord would have told us…. Those are my reasons for not accepting the rapture. 😅

Interesting video and opinion... thanks for sharing it. I actually went the opposite direction. Over 20 years ago I came to Christ and for years I didn't buy into the rapture. But as I continued to study scripture daily, I got interested in the topic, prayed much about it, and devoted a portion of my study time to delving into this topic. I bought a book called, Revelation Four Views: A Parallel Commentary. I did a lot of study on Church history also... was surprised that there were actually many teachings on the premillennial and rapture view... however, because the church was dominated by Roman Catholic theology, and any variance from that would be stamped out pretty quick, which is why it did not have any footing to take off and be taught until after the reformation period, when there was freedom to study and develop true Bible doctrine without the threat of a dominant controlling Catholic priesthood. So going into Church history to prove a point that because the rapture wasn't widely taught or held doesn't prove anything... otherwise I could say the same for Salvation by faith alone, by grace alone, through Christ alone... etc. (the Solas)... because those weren't 'Popularized' until the reformers pushed back against the prevailing church of the time. Anyway... long story short, I've come down the road the other way... Now I'm absolutely convinced there is a rapture... based on 2 Thess. 4, John 14:2,3; 1Cor. 15:50-57. The only question should be on the timing of the rapture... in relation to the Tribulation period. I strongly lean to before... for many reasons, one of which is to distinguish the difference between Israel and the Body of Christ, the Church (Math. 16:18). Two completely separate programs in the plan of God. However both groups saved the same way, by grace through faith in the completeness of Jesus Christ to forgive sins. Anyway, thanks again for the video and to God be the Glory!

So was it figure tip when Jesus was caught up in the air and they were and the apostles were staring up at the sky and the angels asked what were you looking at? I think he literally rose up in the air

Br. Matt, thank you for your conclusion and the willingness to express your conviction's concerning this topic. I'm sorry to hear about your disappointment with this great eschatological topic and event. I myself wrestled with the very same issue for quite sometime. I've been a "Christian" 44 year's and a student of eschatology 42 of them. During these 42 year's I have observed the "Harpazo" doctrine passed around the "end times" table to great extent. I've watched as this would pass from one hand to another as it was shuffled around the table, only to be expressed by the next holder as, " Yupyup, this is it, it's set in stone now." One learns a few things over time as one seeks direction from "The HOLY SPIRIT" in humility. I'm sure as with all of us this is common in our sanctification experience. I've said all of this to take a moment to "sharpen iron with iron" with you, of course with your willingness and permission. And in doing so I would appreciate a response from you after you have researched the concept and content. Let me say up front by sending you this brief " treatise," I'm in no way an authority on this topic, but rather one who reaches for correct corresponding action's through " Text, co-text, content and witnesses". As I'm sure you are aware that most of our current explanations concerning this great event are contentious, by this I mean when one is held in view of another, divisions end in contention with each other. I'm very sure this is a point you once have had to reason with, as we all. Reasoning behind this is because we, "the Body of "CHRIST" have built and re-built on these shuffling's. Now gleaning from another's work isn't completely wrong, the "Apostle's and the early Church Father's" did as much. Yet, as long as men among us, or we ourselves continue to follow our own reasonings, "TRUTH' and correct exposition will always suffer. Reaching a non-contentious "Scriptural" answer is obtainable if one applies the hermeneutical principle's designed by "GOD." Once these laws are found, acquired, and understood, they reveal exposition as intended after the way "GOD" designed them to be. You have most likely heard the phrase, " GOD" doesn't dwell in a box." This just isn't hyperbole. Allow me now to put this concept together. "Scripture" of course will be foundational for our principle's in process. - The desire of "GOD" for our exegetical and expositional understanding. - # 1. - ( Deuteronomy 29: 29 )- " The secret things belong to the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong to us and our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law." # 2. - ( Proverbs 25: 2 )- " It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter." # 3. - ( Isaiah 28: 9 ~ 10 ) - " Whom will he teach knowledge ? And whom will he instruct with a report ? Those weaned from milk ! Those drawn from the breast ! For his words are : Rule upon rule, rule upon rule : Here a little, there a little " # 4. - ( Gospel of John 8: 31 ~ 32 ) - " Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word , then you are truly my disciples. And you shall know the truth , and the truth shall make you free." The hermeneutical principle here that covers is, " God declares the " end from the beginning and the beginning from the end." The correct process to arrive at correct concept clarity, is to find the first " Scripture " reference where the " Chosen of " God " are delivered from "Divine" wrath, then follow it through to the " New Testament " corresponding reference's. " What one finds as a substantiated law must correspond to the " end to the beginning and the beginning to the end. " For me after many hours, months, and years of study, the only doctrine following correct exegesis and context is the " Pre-wrath " harpazo. I realize this may not be agreeable with you which is ok, I'm not trying to ruffle feathers in any way, after all that is what has got us where we are today. I only ask if you would check this out and respond to me with your thoughts. Thank you very much and until we greet and meet will see you here, there, or in the air. Covenant Blessings abide your way.

Thank you brother for sharing this, I did hear hints of Ben Witherington III in your message, to whom I subscribe to his view on the matter too. Your explanation is pretty much where I am, about 20 years ago I started to have doubts about the rapture, and then I heard a brother preach that it was a relatively new teaching that JN Darby taught back in the 1800s, all of which you shared here. I also believe that many try and use Matthew 24 to teach the rapture too, but you have to do a lot of scriptural gymnastics to get to any conclusion to support a rapture, quite simply it doesn't. In Matthew 24 the disciples get into a dialogue with Jesus about the temple, the end of the age and His coming "While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?” In verse 4-35 Jesus explains in detail what would happen, and when we get to verses 36-41, here we have those verses where Jesus explains 36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." 37 "As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." what happened in the days of Noah for Jesus to say AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH? We have to go to Genesis 6 and 7, and in these chapters, we have a detailed explanation of how God had enough of all humanity because all their hearts were full of wickedness, God commands Noah to build an ark and gives specific instructions, to which Noah follows to the letter, once all was done as God commanded, Noah and his family entered the ark, God sent the rains and the waters from the deep to burst forth and destroy His creation, ALL HUMANITY was destroyed as was all that had the breath of life in their nostrils, they were taken away in judgement and destroyed, to be no more, yet Noah and his family were left behind on the earth, and that is what Jesus meant, AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH, God's judgement came in the waters that covered the earth and destroyed all life, except Noah and his family. Back to Matthew 24:38-41 "38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left." the ones here who are left behind are believers, because those who are taken are taken for judgement, if you try and turn it the other way around, it makes no sense at all and contradicts what Jesus is saying here.

I'd love to have the source reference for the narrative of the origin of the rapture theology from the young girl's vision. I knew the idea was pretty recent in the grand scheme of things, but I hadn't heard of this before. I thought it was a Scofield thing.

The first reason can be easily disproved, the second isn't based on scripture, the third, escapism is something man made up so he can argue it himself lol

Can you explain Jesus' promise to His disciples , in St.John 14 : 1 ,2 , 3 verses . Revelation 4 : 7, 8, 9. Where did these people come from ? Is it after the great tribulation or before ?

Pray you'll be counted worthy to escape the things which are about to fall upon the Earth

Exactly, thank you. we will be here WORKING/Preaching to the non believer. (like the times of Noah) trying to save as many as we can B4 his return. Biblical Common sense. Captain Vic

Did you learn this in seminary?

I did way back until I started following Pastor Arnold Murray in the early 90's, Shepherds Chapel. He taught the same thing that you are that Margaret McDonald started this Lie in the 1830's. Thank You for taking a stand, I think you and I and few others are in the minority in regards to this subject. Blessings from Ronnie-Ackley Iowa

Many pretrib like to split the second coming into two parts and have it both ways.. this brings more confusion then confirmation. and God is not the author of confusion. Just say what the bible says without injecting a preconceived idea. We are not to read into the bible. The main things is to be ready and to prepare our hearts and mind. I used to believe pretrib but now I'm learning more everyday.

This line of thinking, it seems, is most effective among those who were born into it, and were taught never to examine ideas critically. I wasn’t born into or reared in a church which taught rapture doctrine as an article of faith. I didn’t encounter it until I began working at a large Christian ministry when I was 19. Among those I met who held strongly to pre-tribulation rapture beliefs, all had been reared in it from youth. Interestingly enough, I encountered a few who abandoned their rapture views, but never any who acquired those views after having been raised in an environment where rapture thought was criticized or not accepted.

Why would his church be here during the tribulation? Who’s coming with Jesus during Armageddon?

REV 3 [10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. AND NOW THIS: [11] Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

I have a similar experience as you in ditching the rapture theology. 1- I never understood how they supported the rapture theology but only accepted it because that was the predominant theology held within my surroundings. When I realized there were other ideas, I compared scriptures to other’s theology and found the partial preterist theology to be much stronger and clearer while the rapture argument was extremely weak with little scriptural support. 2- preterist theology was stronger on their argument concerning the tribulation while the rapture theology I learned was a long spaghetti string on verses from all over scripture to create a narrative that was still unsupported by scripture. If the tribulation was wrong then so was the rapture theology. 3- rapture theology made no sense in why rapture a specific amount of people from tribulation when the first century church suffered greatly during their time of tribulation to include those who were Martyred during the mid century. What made us so special?

The tribulation is not for the CHURCH

What does caught up in the air mean to you??

I grew up with the same idea of the rapture, I could not find it in the Bible either, so I thought that maybe I am not as educated regarding the Bible as other people. Now that I am older it just does not make sense, why would the most complacent Christians in world history pass tribulation when the disciples of old were not spared?

I used to believe in rapture until my son asked about the fact that in 1 Thessalonians there is a trumpet and shout of a archangel. We then started to read to see if the very first Christians believed in this and where this doctrine originated. Long short we not only was this not believed by the church until the late 1800s but we also found that the early Church was not at all protestants but Catholic. We are now very happy Catholic s and more in love with Jesus than ever before.

What about all these people today who are seeing visions and having dreams of the rapture?

Thank you for your thoughts. You said something that struck me, about escapism. How true it is that we Christians don't want to suffer, as I understand scripture we are called to a life of suffering. Jesus says to take up our cross daily. What you said was interesting, i..e. the material world i a bad world that one does not want to be apart of. Thus we want to escape. It seemed that the concept of "rapture" could have some influence in Gnostic thought. Your thoughts?

I always believe “teachers” that tell me not to believe in the plain interpretation. The Thessalonians text is very straight forward, if you had a child read it, they would tell you that Jesus is going to catch us up in the air.

Thank you! I grew up in an environment that assumed Dispensationalism with the rapture and all the rest that goes with it. I thank God that I found my way to theologians like Ben Witherington, Tom (NT) Wright, and many more who helped me see the metanarrative of the Bible, as you discuss, from creation to new creation via Israel, Jesus, and through Him the church. This gave me the theological framework to understand the passages that can be misread through a Platonic lens which seems biblical, but actually runs counter to God's redemptive plans and purposes, beginning back in Genesis. I hope to share this video with some of my friends who are wary of anything that challenges their beliefs - you make a biblically grounded but winsome case for rejecting the rapture, and by proxy all of Dispensationalism. Thanks again!

Can you watch Before the Wrath and tell me what you think?

The thought came to my mind today, if the letters of Paul or not in the Bible, how much of church doctrine would change? I feel like a lot of his teaching seems to dominate what Jesus Old Testament revelation of God. Has anyone else had this thought also?

David Wilkerson believed in the we cant lose rapture. In other words if we have to go through some or all of the tribulation Jesus will strengthen us and walk with us until it is His time for the rapture. Rather pre mid or post His timing is perfect. The elect will be saved the devil is not strong enough to snatch us out of God's hands. Fear not.

Thanks for sharing your journey to the truth. I pray that many more abandon the man-made rapture doctrine and seek to truly serve God in every area of life.

Can't recall if the word "rapture" was ever mentioned in the Bible and if there was none then it was a word coined to describe something for convenience same as with the word "trinity". If you say so sir, this concept needed another thorough reading also with the book of Revelation. Thank you for the insight. Wesley, Luther and the rest may not have really touched on this subject because it wasn't their main focus then.. my 2-cent opinion, sir.

Thank you for this video. I wonder whether you have considered comparing 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 with Revelation 20 which teaches about the thousand years God’s people will spend in heaven with Jesus after the Second Coming. The chapter states they will carry out a judging process of those who have not been resurrected in the First Resurrection . Then after the thousand year period they will return with Jesus to earth (Zechariah 14:4,5 with the New Jerusalem - Revelation 21) when the final judgment of those who come up in the Second Resurrection will take place and final punishment (the Second Death) will then take place (Revelation 20:11-15).

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. -1 Thessalonians 4:17

The Rapture comes from 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 when the dead are raised first and those who are alive are “CAUGHT UP” together with them in the clouds. This getting caught up in the air or sometimes referred to as heaven is called “the rapture”. But if you ask me where did pre-tribulation rapture belief comes from? I would say that it comes from the people's fear of persecution, dying and experiencing the horrors of the tribulation which are written in Matthew and the book of Revelation. They are too fearful that they reject the truth and so they create this delusion in their own minds that the rapture has to be before the tribulation because they question why God allows suffering, persecution and even death to his saints. Psalm 116:15 says, 15 Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints. Precious why? Because they remain faithful until the end but those who shrink back, he has no pleasure in them(Hebrews 10:38).

I've been taught rapture theology for at least 50 years, and from the start, I saw it wasn't biblical. I chose rarely to debate it as I have nothing to lose if I'm wrong, contrary to what those who believe in a pre-trib rapture will experience if they're wrong (including, but not limited to, not recognizing the anti-Christ because they are under the assumption they will not be here when he's revealed). There were several points which clearly screamed out at me from Scriptures, a few of which include: "You": To whom is Jesus speaking throughout the 24th chapter of Matthew (as well as the parallel account in Mark 13 and similar passages in Luke 17 & 21)? The Lord is speaking to His disciples -- i.e. believers. Bearing that in mind, note that the Lord uses the word “you” numerous times throughout this discourse -- at least eleven times directly (verses 4, 9[2], 20, 23, 25, 26, 33, 34, 44, 47), and a few times indirectly just in the Matthew passages alone. The Lord speaks of “you” (believers) being delivered up to tribulation, “you” (believers) seeing the abomination of desolation, anyone saying to “you” (believers) that ‘Here is the Christ!’, etc. Likewise, in Mark 13:29: “…when you see these things happening…” Such would imply that believers will be present throughout, as the events described unfold. The elect: Of course, it was Matthew 24:15-22 which first made me think that I was being led astray by well-meaning, albeit biblically incorrect individuals about a rapture. The "elect" (eklektos) (Matt.24:22 -- for whose sake those days will be cut short) is used only 22 (23) times in the whole of the New Testament. In seven instances, the word is utilized in reference to this End Times prophecy. In all but four instances where this word is used in the New Testament it is always a reference to believers. The four exceptions are: I Tim. 5:21 (where it refers to “elect“ angels), and three references to Christ (Lk. 23:35, I Pet. 2:4, 6). As such, it should be ascertained from its use above (as well as in the subsequent End Times passages), that the elect (i.e. believers) are present on earth during the end times tribulation. Making war against the saints: (Dan. 7:21, 25; Rev. 13:7) It would again appear that the saints (a.k.a. elect) must still be on earth during these times in order to be persecuted. The coming of the Son of Man: The Greek phrase used for the coming of the Son of Man appears thrice in this discourse (verses 27, 37 and 39). In all three instances, the Greek is identical. (The phrasing is different in verse 30, as well as the accounts of both Mark 13:26 and Luke 21:27, which utilizes a different word: erchomai.) This would seem to indicate that the events described herein (the days of Noah) should be placed chronologically within the time-frame of the events depicted in proximity of verse 27's coming of the Son of Man. (see also Lk. 17: 26-27) The Lord referred to one "coming of the Son of Man" -- not two, or three or more. A great trumpet / the last trumpet: While there are seven trumpets mentioned in the 8th through 11th chapters of Revelation, I will omit discussion of the first six (Revelation 8:1 through 11:14), as these are not alluded to in the Lord‘s discourse from Matthew 24. However, given that the first six trumpets follow the previous cosmic occurrences (Rev. 6:12-14), but precede the seventh (or last ) trumpet (Rev. 11:15, I Cor. 15:51-52, I Thes. 4:15-17), it may be assumed that the events described from Revelation 8:1 through 11:14 occur between the cosmic occurrences (Matthew 24:29) and the sounding of the trumpet to gather His elect (Matthew 24:30). It is advantageous to note at this point that all of the events of the subsequent passages follow the aforementioned, great, end times tribulation (verse 21), but precede the coming of the Son of Man on the clouds to gather His elect (verse 31), i.e. the gathering of the elect follows the great tribulation; it does not precede it (as should also be noted by the phrase which begins verse 29: Immediately after the tribulation of those days... then). The great multitude: The great multitude referenced in Rev. 7:9-10 (and again in verses 13 and 14) is not to be confused with the 144,000 previously mentioned (verses 3-8). Those previously mentioned (verses 3-8) are specifically designated as those numbered from among the sons of Israel. The great multitude mentioned in verses 9-10, 13-14 are specifically designated as those from among every nation -- Gentiles.

I changed after someone read 2 Thessalonians 2 verses 1-4. Also no verse in the Bible says there will be a rapture followed by a 7 year tribulation.

I fully agree with what you have said, because I believe the same. About 15 years ago, I began to question this so-called "rapture", and the more I found out, the more I studied. Here is a short teaching that I developed just yesterday, among many others, that I would share with others. The following scripture references are used by the “Pre-Trib” folks to justify their beliefs and false doctrine. 1. See Matthew 24:29-31. “29Immediately after the tribulation of those days[which are outlined in Matthew 24:4-28]: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. ’ 30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven[the First Heaven, that is, the sky above], and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven[the First Heaven, that is , the sky above], with power and great glory.d 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet[this is the trumpet of God, the last trumpet to be sounded] call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other[see also Mark 13:27 for a clarification]. 2. See Mark 13:24-27. KJV - Notice, no mention of trumpet sounded. “24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. 3.See Luke 21:25-27. Notice, no mention of gathering together of believers; no mention of trumpet sounded. “25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.” 4. The Gospel of John, does not mention the Second Coming nor tribulation. 5. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. 51“Behold, I tell you a mystery[a divine secret], we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed [according to 1 Corinthians 15:54], 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet;[as shown in Matthew 24:31]; for the trumpet[the Last Trumpet],will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we[all True Believers] will be changed[receive our “glorified” body, just as Jesus has: See 1 John 3:2]. 6. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. “13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope[that is the unbelievers, who have rejected the Gospel]. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep[died with faith] in Him.” 15”By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the [Second and only remaining]coming of the Lord will by no means precede those[True believers] who have fallen asleep[died physically]. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain[at the Second and only return of Jesus] will be caught[gathered] up together with them in the clouds[as noted in Matthew 24:31] to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.” 7. The “Great Trumpet” or “trumpet of God” mentioned in the above verses, is the last trumpet which Jesus blows at His “Second Coming”, dispatching His angels to gather His elect[True Believers from Adam to the time of His Second Coming]. 7. Acts 1:9-11. “9After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. 10They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.[noted in Matthew 24:30; 1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:16]. 8. All of the scriptures quoted in the three scriptures above, are cohesive with each other, that is they are in agreement, because it is the Word of God. 9. The real problem with the Pre-Trib advocates is, they misunderstand the following scripture, which is not difficult to interpret, provided we are not assuming that what we have been taught is correct. With the sounding of the Seventh Trumpet, the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation has come to and end. See Revelation 12:15. “Then the seventh trumpet sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our LORD and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever. “The Seventh Trumpet” mentioned in Revelation 12:15, is the “last trumpet judgment, and is not the same trumpet stated in Matthew 24, 1 Corinthians 15, and 1 Thessalonians, as the Pre-tribbers are taught. There are six other trumpets of judgment mentioned in previous verses of Revelation 8:7,8,10,12, and Revelation 9:1,13. - The sounding of the seventh and final trumpet judgment, signals the start of the “Great Tribulation” - which is the last three and one-half years. 10. The confusion or misinterpretation of Revelation 12:15, is a common problem among those who believe or have been taught about a “Pre-Tribulation” rapture, which is total misinformation and incorrect understanding of the referenced scriptures. What is overlooked in this verse is the fact that not only verse 15 of Revelation 11, but verses 16 to 19 are given for the following reason only: With the sounding of the seventh trumpet, the Great Tribulation begins, which is the final 3 and 1/2 years of the seven year period. Seven is the number of perfection and completion (cf. Ps.12:6; 119:164; Prov.6:16; 9:1), While the first six trumpets announce and commence warning judgments of ascending intensity and longevity during the Tribulation's first half, the seventh trumpet opens the longest and most intensive warning judgment of all, namely, the Great Tribulation itself. For the Great Tribulation is the ultimate admonition to prepare to meet with God, for He is coming at the end of that final three and a half years in the Person of the conquering Messiah who will mete out vengeance to His adversaries even as He brings deliverance to His people (cf. 2Thes.1:3-12). That is why all of the other events and proclamations in this paragraph, Revelation 11:15-19, directly connect the sounding of the seventh trumpet and the Great Tribulation's commencement to that glorious future day. 11. The seventh trumpet is the Great Tribulation, the final twilight of the devil's rule soon to be dissolved by the brilliant light of the Day-Star's dawning as our Lord returns and takes up His millennial rule in Jerusalem. Each of the sections of Revelation chapter 11:15-19 speak to this same central point, even as each adds additional details. The proclamation of verse 15b puts into words the underlying meaning of the 7th trumpet, namely, the imminent judgment upon the world, its evil, and present evil ruler with the victorious return of the rightful King. Hope this can help someone. I have many more teachings on the pre-trib rapture heresy. I enjoyed your outstanding presentation, it was simple and to the point.

I was a pretrib dispensationalist for several decades. The rapture is supposed to be secret and unprophesied in the OT Jewish scriptures (including the NT accounts of Jesus and all writings not from the apostle Paul. Yet, we have had decades of predictions about the rapture happening real soon, based on this and that event. I gave up on it after reading the word every year for several years and seeing how Christ is reigning now and subduing all things to himself. When the excitement about the blood moons in 2014/2015 came about, yet nothing happened, it was the final straw. Dispensationalists say it’s unprophesied and un-signed, YET they look for indicators in current events that it’s about to happen. It was just too inconsistent and did not align with the teaching of both the Old and the New Testaments.

When scripture says one will be taken and the other left,taken to where and under what circumstances?

So everyone regardless of who we are & what we believe will go through the tribulation?

Almost there, now look into Preterism, the time statements alone tell us when these things happened. God-bless

This reminds me of people who say that nowhere in the Bible, does it even suggest that homosexuality is wrong. People, for whatever reason, get whatever they want out of the Bible. I decided many years ago to read it without filters. It’s amazing what it actually does say. One of the things it does say many times is that there is a rapture.

A question bound do mortal Man have opportunity to go up to heaven?if then who are they?

Very interesting points. How do the 144000 in the Book of Revelation fit into this? Would love for you to respond to questions in this thread.

Revelation 3:10 Because you have kept My command to preserve, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Maranatah, the Lord is coming and his bride will be taken away!!!!

If you believe in a pre-trib or even mid-trib rapture, then there is no choice but to believe in two raptures, two second comings, two judgement days and two separate resurrections of the saints.

The great thing is that we don't have to speculate anymore. This passage is explained by historians in the 1st and 2nd Centuries !!!

Are you using a secular, material definition/example of a "parousia" to derive a non-secular, non-physical reality? Just curious. A single honest passage in scripture is ample if it comes from the Devine. Or, am I wrong?

I was indoctrinated with rapture theology, but never really believed it. The primary, and initial reason I doubted it was because none of the Apostles, and Christians of the early church escaped tribulation, or persecution. When you think of the horrors they faced, and how they were killed - how cowardly is it to think you are going to get beamed up when the going gets tough? Think of when Steven was stoned, and as he was dying, he prayed for those who were killing him. Think of being thrown into the lion's den, or entering into a hot furnace for refusing to worship an idol. They were willing to go through whatever they had to go through, in order to hold steadfast to their belief in Christ. Also, if you consider the population of the world since the beginning of man, why would there be an escape plan for just a small percentage of people overall, at the end of the line? The Second Coming of Jesus is the more important event in all of history. It is the most climactic. It is the final triumphant victory. Why would that be diminished by a "secret rapture" making the appearance or return of Christ happening three times, instead of twice? In my opinion, it is the most implausible, and insulting doctrine that has altered the true Gospel of Christ. For years I was confused by it. But as I read, and listen to the Bible more and more, my confidence in the truth, and in the importance of the truth, is more sound. I do not believe in the John Darby/Scofield bible at all. Darby altered many things in the Bible, and Scofield added to it as well. They will eventually face God's judgement for doing so. No one is allowed to alter God's word. Another reason I never believed it, is because there are umpteen Hollywood movies about it. That too, is an indication that the rapture doctrine is something "man" wants us to believe. It is a sensationalized, and fictional deception.