THULE OUTWAY PLATFORM 2, WORTH THE PRICE TAG? BIKE RACK FOR THE RENAULT ZOE

  Рет қаралды 49,180

Dan Escapes

Dan Escapes

Күн бұрын

In this episode of Dan Escapes I review the Thule Outway Platform 2 to transport my mountain bike on my electric car the Renault Zoe. I point out the Pros and Cons and if it is worth the high price tag.
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Пікірлер: 97
@philipwoodford6286
@philipwoodford6286 2 жыл бұрын
Really helpful exactly what I need now ordering! Cheers
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
Glad it helped you out Philip! Keep me updated with how you get on with it!
@davidalberius6107
@davidalberius6107 2 жыл бұрын
The thing with Thule is that they do great quality products. They are a bit pricey, but it is worth the extra money to have a reliable product that just works. I have a Thule bike rack that is mounted on the towbar, and it is so much better and more reliable than any of the other similar (cheaper) solutions I have owned in the past. From now on I will never even consider to buy anything other than Thule.
@usbsol
@usbsol 2 жыл бұрын
Nice review - thanks 🤗
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you watching and hope it helped!!
@CrakKfoxx
@CrakKfoxx Жыл бұрын
Great video cheers
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@fendercornford
@fendercornford 2 жыл бұрын
Just ordered one. I have a Saris one bike carrier, It was ok if I positioned the bike very carefully and tied it down well. The rear of bikes are heavier so I had to balance the weight perfectly otherwise it would want to twist and slip to the one side. The problem was it was easy to not get it exactly right so frequently had to stop and re-adjust it. I couldn’t use the rear wiper, it obscured vision for me, the number plate and lights. When leaving at stupid o’clock in the morning it was more stress than I needed. I need the peace of mind when travelling at speed carrying my bike, I am not going to cause any issues for me or other road users.
@ngroom7
@ngroom7 2 жыл бұрын
great review and first one that has showed the spoiler kit i notice you have a big spoiler on your zoe is that all plastic?? i just bought this for my kadjar and worried about the spoiler breaking
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching. So far I haven’t had any issues, just got to malamute you use the straps that sit inside the car to keep it stable. The last thing you want is it bouncing around which will definitely cause damage. It might be worth looking at the angle of your spoiler cause if the cable comes down at a hard angle it might put a lot of strain on the plastic spoiler. Hopefully that helps but let me know if you have any more questions.
@richardcunnhingham5518
@richardcunnhingham5518 Жыл бұрын
Really helpfull. I'm about to buy one as well. The only topic you did not mention is about opening the trunk. Is possible after installing 2 bikes ? Thx.
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
Hey Richard thanks for watching, really appreciate it and glad you found it helpful. I would not advise opening the trunk with the bikes on it. It feels weighty already with just the rack. Hope that helps.
@coz_daysoff
@coz_daysoff Ай бұрын
Looking at the price of this item, comparing to the cheap 50-100£ on amazon/halfords…the difference is astronomical. Bungee cords and straps vs metal wire. Is good is not blocking the plate and lights
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 28 күн бұрын
It’s such a sturdy rack and definitely worth the price tag. Has served me well and still using!
@bro-xt3cq
@bro-xt3cq 2 жыл бұрын
First of all good video really helped me a lot. The problem is my bike got the bottle cage in this exact position. Have you already found another way to clamp it on or is that really the only way?
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching, my gfs road bike has a bottle cage and was able to mount it above the bottle cage, not sure how it will work wit a bigger bike with a larger bottom tube. Sorry if that’s not helpful, I’m still not running bottle cages on my mtb and only using hydration packs.
@galjord9443
@galjord9443 2 жыл бұрын
How about clamping it on the bottom of the lower tube, like in the same place of the bottle cage but from below? (Hope you understand what I mean) did it yesterday, was completely freaked out for the whole 2 hours of driving, but it was all ok afterall. The clamp itself can be rotated… and it fit the tube better than attaching it on the upper side (in the place of the bottle cage or right below).
@evilawkeye2215
@evilawkeye2215 2 жыл бұрын
Looks a great product, like you said it’s pricey but worth it! Shame they don’t do a solo version. Might be something I’ll get in the future as only recently got a bike!
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
Really sturdy holding the bikes and trust my bikes on there. Least if you need to take two bikes you have the option. What bike did you get?
@evilawkeye2215
@evilawkeye2215 2 жыл бұрын
@@DanEscapes I got the New Voodoo Bizango Pro.
@BugMonsters
@BugMonsters 2 жыл бұрын
Very nice video! Much useful information. I have a question. When tightening the bikes with the arms to the frame I don't get a "click click". It seems pretty tight already and I am not sure if I should continue to tighten them? I am worried to damage the frame
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching. It usually becomes pretty tight before you hear the clicks. I have an aluminium frame so didn't bother me too much be can understand if you have a carbon bike might feel like you might overtighten and crack the frame. Can you still lock even if you don't hear the two clicks?
@BugMonsters
@BugMonsters 2 жыл бұрын
@@DanEscapes I can still lock it
@TheHsDude
@TheHsDude 2 жыл бұрын
Nice video! I bought the hanging version of the OutWay. I noticed that the gap between the hatch and the roof (where the hooks go) increased by a mm or two after installation. Have you noticed this too? I have used the plastic spoiler reinforcement straps.
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
I haven't noticed, I'll check it out. I have noticed that it's starting to creak alot more so will probably take off and tighten it all up again. How you finding the hanging version?
@TheHsDude
@TheHsDude 2 жыл бұрын
Late reply, I know. Overall it’s nice, there’s no better trunk rack in my opinion. My only complaint is the first groove on which the bike sits is way too close to the trunk (the bike touches the trunk). But the provided rubber spacers do the trick and prevents the bike from touching the trunk (although the bike sits just outside the groove).
@VraXaX
@VraXaX 2 жыл бұрын
I also have one myself. When tightening the metal wires, don't you feel like it is almost breaking the spoiler itself before it goes into those two clicks? At the end it pulls so hard on the spoiler that i just leave it like that.
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I was worried at first but just kept going! How are you finding it?
@teresastreet9883
@teresastreet9883 2 жыл бұрын
Great review, thanks! How tall is the whole thing is once your bike is mounted? I'm thinking about getting one for my Fiesta to use for my commute to work, but I leave my car in a carpark which has a 2.2m barrier. Not convinced I would fit under with this (but really hope I would, as it looks like a great piece of kit!). Thanks
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
This is the only issue I had with the rack, I still had to take the bike off to fit through the car park barrier. Your fiesta might be lower than my car and depends on the size of your bike. It was annoying as it was only by a maybe 20 cms that is couldn’t fit through
@teresastreet9883
@teresastreet9883 2 жыл бұрын
@@DanEscapes I bought one and kept my fingers crossed. It fits with a cm or 2 to spare! I'm really pleased with the rack, it fits the fiesta well and is so easy to use. Ideal for my commute and will be perfect for my teenage son to transport his dual suspension mountain bike when he passes his test!
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
@@teresastreet9883 Amazing, glad to hear it clears. Have fun riding!!
@georgebrown6126
@georgebrown6126 Жыл бұрын
Great video! Would you recommend this for carbon road bikes? A little bit concerned how tight the clamp is. The clamp going exactly where the water bottle holders go seems like a bit of an issue - is there any way to adjust this?
@georgebrown6126
@georgebrown6126 Жыл бұрын
One more question - how much does this reduce your car range by when you have bikes on the back (roughly 5%, 10% etc)? I was buying for long journeys (down to the alps maybe) and maybe thinking that something lower down would be better
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
Thanks George! I’m assuming it should be ok with carbon bikes, carbon is still pretty strong, but I know the feeling. Haven’t yet clamped my carbon bike on there yet. I’m assuming as it is being clamped to the down tube should be a strong section. Might be worth contacting Thule or your bike manufacturer to find out? I did it the other day where I clamped it on the bottom side of the down tube so didn’t have to remove the bottle cage. I wouldn’t be able to tell you in percentage how much range I lost, but on my trip to wales we could have done it with one stop for charging but had to do two stops. It’s annoying but might have to drive at a slower speed on motorways, that’s when I started noticing the range dropping considerably. Would be interesting to see how it would be with the bikes on top of the roof pointing forward but don’t have the capability on my car, hence buying this rack. Hope this was helpful!
@elisabethgriffin8662
@elisabethgriffin8662 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for useful review. I had the hanging version and my only problem was managing to pull out the cables (very tight and stiff requiring unusual strength) to reach the rim. Neither Thule nor retailer were able to help. Is there a special procedure to follow before pulling out the cables?
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
I haven’t had a massive issue with retracting the cables. Do you unwind them first before pulling them to the attachment?
@elisabethgriffin8662
@elisabethgriffin8662 Жыл бұрын
Tried but instruction pictures unclear. Can you confirm that horizontal position of keyhole is for unlocked ? Do you then have to rotate each knob toward 'minus' sign to unwind each cable? If so, how long for? Would appreciate any advice as I think we're just missing one simple thing to make it work!
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
@@elisabethgriffin8662 ok so I had to attach mine yesterday. I tried with the key I. The lock position and was very hard to pull the cable out. It might be worth trying in both positions and seeing what happens. On mine it indicates whether it is locked or not on the dial.
@user-xf5db8kc4b
@user-xf5db8kc4b 2 жыл бұрын
Hello. Thanks first of all! Does the pedal of the first bike touch the glass? Does any part of the bike touch the car, possibly scratching or denting it? And is the rack itself easy to handle and can it be stored (compactly) in the car trunk?
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching. The bike does not touch the car, just depends on the angle you have it at, you need to it lean into the car a little. Once I did it too much and the pedal touched the glass luckily I took it off and there was no damage so moved the angle and was all good. And yes it can be folded down and put in to the trunk of your car, well I can definitely fit it in mine. Hope that helps!
@andrzej8140
@andrzej8140 2 жыл бұрын
Hi. Nice review :) Have you find a way to clamp the bikes with bottle cages mounted? I really like this rack, but this issue is stopping me from buying it.
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
You can move the bike along so it won’t clamp around the bottle cage, managed to do this with my partners road bike and made a conscious effort not to clamp my hard tail by the bolts. Not sure how this would work on a full suspension mountain bike though. It might be worth contacting Thule and see what they say. Sorry if that was no help!
@andrzej8140
@andrzej8140 2 жыл бұрын
@@DanEscapes Thanks for your help. After watching your review I saw a couple of YT videos with road bikes on this rack, so I took a chance and ordered it. I have two gravel bikes to transport. For longer journeys, they will be transported inside anyway (I have an Opel Astra station wagon), but for shorter distances I would like to carry them outside on the rack.
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
@@andrzej8140 Amazing, let me know how you get on! I'd much prefer to travel with the bikes inside but unfortunatley can't fit two bikes in the back and just easier to put on the rack to transport.
@bartnijenhuis9124
@bartnijenhuis9124 Жыл бұрын
Nice video, thank you! How much range did you lose while driving with the rack? Could you give an estimate? Was it acceptable?
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching, I haven’t gone into too much detail on range but it is definitely noticeable on motorways I’d have to add in probably an extra charge stop and I underestimate my range by 70 miles just to be safe. The range dramatically drops in winter with a cold battery! I only use it when travelling locally with two bikes and if I really need to on a longer journey.
@samanthairby2952
@samanthairby2952 2 жыл бұрын
It's a great product! I have one myself. Did you find it easy to attach???
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
It was a bit tricky at first but when you’ve done it once a it’s easy after that!
@mickinmerton8053
@mickinmerton8053 Жыл бұрын
Very useful video, thanks. I'm a cyclist and I am considering buying a Zoe. Is it possible to get one bike in the boot (medium size gravel bike) with the rear seats down? With or without removing the front wheel?
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
Hi Mick, thanks for watching!! The Zoe is a great car. I have managed to get my road bike in the back with the seats down. I have also manage to get my full suspension mountain bike in the back by taking off both wheels, even managed to get two mountain bikes in the back (both wheels off and cover between each bike) and luggage for the week end. The rear rack is great for smaller journeys but definitely to eek out range best to pack the bike in the back of the car. Hope this helps!
@mickinmerton8053
@mickinmerton8053 Жыл бұрын
@@DanEscapes Thank you for replying, that is very reassuring and get closer to buying a Zeo.
@kentao4
@kentao4 2 жыл бұрын
Any input on this rack vs the older raceway platform? For perspective it’s this for 400 us or 300 for the older model brand new
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Kenny, haven’t tried the old raceway platform. The only thing I noticed from googling was it’s lower down. Cons, bikes will cover your rear lights, licence plate and if you have those parking sensors/camera. Pros, won’t have to remove bikes in car parks with height restriction. Not sure if this is true but I guessing less drag when driving it higher speeds. Plus I like that it clamps on the top tube which makes the bottle cage issue I mentioned in my video redundant. I think both will be very good and sturdy, hope that helps and happy to answer any questions you may have!
@christopherdowns2835
@christopherdowns2835 Жыл бұрын
Great video, looking at a bike rack solution for my electric fiat 500e. I don’t think any racks are recommended for this EV, has quite a large spoiler too. Do you think it would fit?
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching and glad you found it helpful! I used to have the the petrol version of the fiat 500. I would like to think it would fit, hard to say with out try it out myself. The Zoe has a plastic spoiler not sure the size difference between the 500e. Was concerned at first but it worked out well and you got that security of using those internal blocks and straps. A mountain bike would definitely be a lot wider than the 500 so got to remember when weaving in and out of traffic to be aware you will be wider, also your range will drop significantly when going at higher speeds.
@christopherdowns2835
@christopherdowns2835 Жыл бұрын
The 500e has a plastic spoiler but it’s quite large, it does however have a metal section in front of the spoiler where the clips would go so guessing it will be fine. I’ve seen pics of a 500e with a saris bones 3 on and that works fine. Just trying to judge if this one will be similar if that works 😆
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
@@christopherdowns2835 it should work, the spoiler on mine is plastic. I do hear some weird creaking noises but not his that worries me. Let me know how it goes!
@TheMonroy26
@TheMonroy26 2 жыл бұрын
hello, a question, my front wheel is 3.5 inches wide and the rear 3.4 inches, do you see that it is possible to enter the rails?
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
It says max width is 3inches, might be worth contacting Thule and see what they say. Sorry if that wasn’t any help. Let me know how you get on!
@andrewewing4659
@andrewewing4659 2 жыл бұрын
It looks like you are able to open and use the hatch door with the rack on the car. Is this is true it is a big improvement over my Raceway Platform. Can anyone here confirm this? How usable is the trunk . I would love to be able to take off the bikes and have use of the hatchback door.
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
You are able to use the hatch door, have to take the bikes off first though. Just be careful when closing, due to the weight can really slam it shut, but holds when the door is fully open so no worries if the door closing on your head. I can’t comment on the raceway platform as haven’t tried, only seen pictures.
@andreiconstantinchirila3730
@andreiconstantinchirila3730 2 жыл бұрын
Please let me know if I can put one e-Bike, I don't know if I can hold it down whit the clamp, because the frame is much bigger due to the battery, my bike is: "221 Cube Stereo Hybrid 140 actionteam 625", thanks.
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Andrei, I think you might be able to clamp the top tube or seat tube. What’s the weight of your bike? The rack can take up to 30kg.
@BalindCsaba
@BalindCsaba Жыл бұрын
Hello there. Can you open the trunk with the bikes on?
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
You won’t be able to. The angle of the bikes would hit the roof of car plus weight is too much.
@francisaaronrelevo2018
@francisaaronrelevo2018 Жыл бұрын
Hey man, just saw this review. Just wanna ask can you still open your trunk fully? or it doesn't stay up because of the weight of the rack?
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
Hey, thanks for watching. Without any bikes on the rack I can still open. Becareful when shutting, you don’t need to slam as the weight is enough to shut it. Haven’t tried on an electric trunk so not sure if it will work with one on. Definitely can’t open with a bike on there. Hope that helps let me know if you have any more questions.
@joaquimoliveira9306
@joaquimoliveira9306 2 жыл бұрын
Boa tarde Desejo comprar este suporte para levar a minha E-bike, acha seguro? O peso dela sem bateria seria 20kg…
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Joaquim, it says it can support two bikes up to a max 30 kg combined, so I’m assuming if you’re only putting one bike on at 20kg it should be fine. Please check with the manufacturer though as they will be able to confirm 100%. Hope that helps and sorry I can’t give you definite answer. Let me know what they say. Thanks!
@joaquimoliveira9306
@joaquimoliveira9306 2 жыл бұрын
@@DanEscapes obrigado 😊
@rickdauber9014
@rickdauber9014 2 жыл бұрын
Hi got this product cos of this review. Do you find when you tighten the wires, it causes a sound as if the back window will break, when it nears the two clicks? Is this normal? Btw I have a hatchback and the legs rest on the back window
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
It feels abit weird at first when you tighten but haven’t had any issues with the glass breaking. Just make sure the contact pad is flush with the glass by using the dial to move it. But you will hear some creaking noises as it’s securely tighten onto the car, you don’t want this product and the weight of the bikes bouncing around as that will definitely cause damage. Thank you for watching my review and how have you found the rack apart from the sounds?
@rickdauber9014
@rickdauber9014 2 жыл бұрын
Found it to be a very solid bike rack, worth the money. When attached to the car, it feels like is a part of the car, as there is no movement whatsoever. Still nervous driving with it though, but confidence will come eventually
@nataliet6273
@nataliet6273 Жыл бұрын
We also have a Zoe and tried it out today, bikes ended up slipping and when we check the rack it had come out the bottom of the boot somehow and now the cables won't retract, we have to feed them back in place and the wheels to tighten the cables seem to be locked tight (they don't get loose so there no spinning for several mins or even one rotation its all tense) any thoughts? Will probably return it and get the same again as not sure if just faulty? But we really like it apart from that which could either be us doing it not quite right or initial product faulty.
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
That doe not sound good, really hard to picture what’s going wrong. The best thing would be to try and get in contact with Thule and see what they say or like you said exchange for another incase it is faulty. I know when I first put it on, somethings wouldn’t click into place properly, but it’s about getting the right setting or it doesn’t click in properly. I remember tightening up the wire at first it took a while, have you checked the positions of the lock on the mechanism and tried tightening it with the key turned in a certain way? Keep me up dated on how you get on!!
@nataliet6273
@nataliet6273 Жыл бұрын
@@DanEscapes we ended up taking it back and getting a new one sent out. The wires were completely slack you could pull it away from the car even after the clicks and locking with the key! Hopefully next one is OK as really like the idea and relative ease of use
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
@@nataliet6273 let me know how it goes! I installed mine again yesterday and felt very secure on after the clicks.
@farshadsh3454
@farshadsh3454 2 жыл бұрын
Still happy with it? I am thinking to buy one today. Because my car is a hatchback and my mtb has the modern geometry, the conventional trunk racks don’t work. My bike sits tilted with front Pointing downward and back wheel up. The front wheel end up below bumper height close to the ground. This rack seems the only solution. Though it is pricy and it just put the bike to high. Overall, you still happy?
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Farshad, I’m still very happy with this rack. Still using it very sturdy! It is very pricey but you get a really strong product especially for your mountain bike. Still annoying if you do to a car park with a low barrier you might need to take the bikes off, just depends on the height of your car, mine is a slightly taller hatchback.
@romangalan7633
@romangalan7633 Жыл бұрын
I would like to buy that thing, but my to bikes by specs are 31 kilogram, so I wonder 🤔 what was the weight of yours bikes ?
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
My bikes were around 14kg so both were just under 30kg. My new bike is just over 15kg so bit worried about travelling with two bikes on the back now. If I was to ever get a new car would consider getting one with a tow bar to carry heavier bikes. I’m sure it would be fine and the rack is very sturdy, just thinking about the car.
@steveoutdoors5964
@steveoutdoors5964 2 жыл бұрын
Pricey, it's more than my car is worth lol. At the moment I just take off the wheels and put the bike in my current car (peugeot 206). But am currently looking into a bigger car either estate or small suv to accommodate us better on family camping trips. I will most likely go down the route of tow bar on the next car then have the option of tow bar rack or small trailer.
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
Definitely not a cheap option but it’s very sturdy piece of kit and will hopefully last a long time. I would rather travel with the bike inside the car but can’t do that with two bikes unfortunately, hence getting the bike rack. Would love a vw van/camper, great for doing weekend trips away and everything secure inside.
@steveoutdoors5964
@steveoutdoors5964 2 жыл бұрын
@@DanEscapes Yea camper would be great, mate at work just got a vw. Nice but way too pricy for me paid around £19,000 for an 07 plate van. Mabe I a couple of years I may look into getting a van and converting it myself over time.
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
@@steveoutdoors5964 I like the idea of converting a van, that way you can make it your own! Plus great for staycations as prices for accomdation have gone way up!
@steveoutdoors5964
@steveoutdoors5964 2 жыл бұрын
@@DanEscapes yea tell me about price hikes. Didn't get away camping at all this summer due to overfilled fully booked campsites and price hikes. Drove by a site in the lakes last week and could not belive how packed in it was. Really puts me off. Hourly this return to normal for neat year when people start going abroad again.
@trondarveansok284
@trondarveansok284 Жыл бұрын
How is it lifting a 25 kg ebike onto the platform?
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
I haven’t tried personally, i guess if you can lift the bike above your head then it should be easy to put on. Would be better on a tow bar platform rack that is Lower to the ground.
@trondarveansok284
@trondarveansok284 Жыл бұрын
@@DanEscapes I don’t have a tow bar so thats why I am looking at the Thule Outway
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
Yeah seems to be the issue with a lot of people (same with me) the Thule is very sturdy and can hold up to 30kg. You’d want to put it on the platform closest to the car. It will take a few goes to get it right first but once you’re comfortable with lifting it will be very easy to put on.
@thompsy2k6
@thompsy2k6 2 жыл бұрын
Considering this for my Skoda Kodiaq... I can reach the bikes on the roof, but friends and family cannot....
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes 2 жыл бұрын
It’s a great option instead of roof bars, been using a lot going to and from trails! Let me know if you have any questions about it!
@Dreamcee
@Dreamcee Жыл бұрын
Why not get the towbar? Can take 55kg, tuv approved, just cant tow with it
@DanEscapes
@DanEscapes Жыл бұрын
Would love a towbar rack but my car doesn’t have one. Looking at a van in the future though.
@Dreamcee
@Dreamcee Жыл бұрын
​@@DanEscapes was just wondering as the Zoe towbar and rack costs around £234 the last time I checked up, the roof bars have type approval now too tho I don't like the fact they open up the door seals slightly to rain.
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