Just starting to get into the game again, Minas Tirith is the army I'm building and I literally watched your original video yesterday 😂 got my first game in a few weeks and am here for this content 🙌

For starters, I am quite pleased that a year has seen Elessar reach low B tier. I advocated for it before, and another year of playing him has convinced me he's very playable. For a longform Gandalf the White essay, in my opinion there are two ways to make Gandalf work. First and foremost is a spam list, because big G needs time to get value and not be needed in combat. Him, Denethor, Hurin, and Irolas at higher points can actually do solid work with an absolute bucket of troops, and as you said you want to double down on shooting as well. The second (and I know you rate these models inside their list, but the three way green alliance for Rohan/MT/Fiefdoms is a goldmine of ways to shore up weaknesses) is to run him with Theodred around 650pts. 6 Might is quite doable there, Theodred hits like a hero twice his cost and is a great target for protective spells like Fortify Spirit, and you get the shooting of Minas Tirith with the Throwing Spears of Rohan, along with F4 Bodyguard cavalry. As for tactics with him, one interesting thing is that every time you lose priority you can bully a banner, particularly hero banners. A mirror match against Big Bozz, for instance, is actually really rough for Bozz because he's losing that shooting war and he needs to stay on his feet to keep that Banner working. Either he loses priority/doesn't contest a heroic move to ensure he can stand up if he gets Sorcerous Blasted, which means Big G's force keeps up the tempo, or he moves first and gets blasted on his ass. Maybe he resists the first and second shots, but his shooting isn't getting many kills and the grind of MT vs. MT is gonna take a while. This isn't limited to Boromir, of course, with another huge staple of the meta being Suladan. Also D5, so you're blowing him up on 4s in addition to keeping his banner from functioning. One thing I've found surprisingly worthwhile as well is leaving Shadowfax at home. It means he can get a 3rd attack from a spear even if he's charged (allying in pikes from Fiefdoms isn't a bad time either), you can get that extra couple bodies to really keep him safe, and a 25mm base is a lot easier to keep protected than a 40mm base. It means he can't make big impressive plays on the flanks or dash in/out to chuck spells, but I've found that those get him killed more often than not. It also means he can just go prone if you're really worried about him being shot. He won't be slaughtering hordes of enemies like a mounted combat hero, but he tends to whiff pretty often if you try to do that with him, so best to keep casting and accruing value that way and have him be more of a late game cleaner. Having him still hale and hearty in the center of the board chucking out Immobilizes, Commands, and Sorcerous Blasts to shut down your opponent's own tools and yank models off objectives is pretty clutch. Lastly, with Lady of Light gone the meta (at least in the states, I know y'all are Aussies) has gotten very complacent towards the tools he brings. Angmar and Ringwraiths in general are everywhere, so Banishment is gonna come up quite a bit. Gandalf the Grey in Laketown, Radagast, and Saruman also aren't uncommon just in general (all of them are pretty solid), especially at the higher points where Gandalf tends to live regardless, so Your Staff is Broken helps you in more matchups there as well. Is any of this enough to make him S tier? Dear lord no, this is a simple plea to keep him in the obscurity of C tier rather than the dishonor of D tier. Cheers lads! P.S. I sometimes bring Osgiliath Vets as a frontline for my Fountain Guard, because C5 means they're still relatively cheap while being able to charge Terror Walls with elf reliability. Really depends if I have the points though, a lot of the time I'll downgrade to WoMT w/Shield because I want another Fountain Guard.

Awesome 💯

Yay so glad you guys revisited

I absolutely love that Gandalf is the lowest Hero :) You’re dead on - he is an awesome hero …. But far too expensive to ever really get your worth out of him.

Great content as always. It would be sweet to see a tier list for things like the Fellowship or White Council, which you probably wouldn't use on their own but would ally into other lists (obviously there are LL's for those two, but I'm more interested in an analysis of something like allying in Strider or good Saruman and where they might fit in best).

Feels like yesterday you uploaded the original Minas Tirith tier list 😅 Definitely agree on the big three. Almost every time I have had a crack with Aragorn and Gandalf I just find myself wishing I had big Boz running around with that big fancy banner. Although Aragorn really pulls his weight against Dwarves, pretty much the only exception where I would prefer him instead. I actually rate Irolas 🤑. I find him to be very flexible, has the march with the extra might and fight value over the captain but also has the ability to call defence and shield if you need to roadblock somewhere. Plus he has bodyguard which is always a bonus. Lacks shield wall but I more use him as a plug for where he is needed. Longbow bodyguards are yummy, enough said. Keep up the good work 🥳

awesome intro :D awesome content :D

I don't understand the Irolas neglect. Admittedly, he has no strike. But he has F5, 3 might, march, bodyguard and can make a strike after shielding. He is a fight-winning machine, especially relative to his points, and is great for taking down a horse against a mounted hero.

that intro though. We're going to have to up our game!

Thanks on the list guys. Rly awesome. Poor Os. veterans though : ( . If an argument can be made, when they dont lose Faramir or Boromir and they got a shield, they are the only f4-5 models that can use shielding other than the Fountain guards. So they could be cheaper models that when things go south can hold out maybe two models of the opponent each wiith shielding, better than the regular warriors do (after a shield wall has lost cohesion to not count that D7 which makes them more tanky, which with Ingold isnt that possible but ya know now, say you dont have Ingold xD). Or they could be there to tag two models each and go the shielding way, so more models of your own can be free to go for traps and actually do some killing. If it helps they are rly simillar to Elves with Banner Boromir around. F5 (not shooting elves xD, no elven blade) s3 d6 a1 w1 c5 (army bonus in) on 9 points with just the shield, say 10 cause you paid for that banner. Elf that can shield as long as Boromir is standind :D

Glad to see Aragron King getting bumoed up, been playing him a lot and in my local monsters are becoming poplar again. deffo agree Citadel guard and Beregond are so unrated.

I hear Galadriel is great within a Minas Tirith army to support Boromir. Restore fate, and protect from shooting. Would be interesting to see how you would mix armies and what impact this would have on a particular units/hero’s tier. And also discuss what units are best to counter other units. I’m new to MESBG and interested to hear what units would be best for say dealing with A Balrog or Saruman, Aragorn I guess but I gather that most Isengard Amies won’t take Saruman?

No new ranger heroes? Angborn and Mablung or whatever they're called. Gandalf is very good, but so expensive for what he does. Love the new intro lads.

Would love to see a Barad Guldur review! Didn't seem to find one in the past videos.

You guys are getting all grown up. Side question, how would you rate shading and highlighting your bases?

Oh man... I'll try to advocate for Gandalf the White here. But before I begin, I should put some context in: 1. I'm from Russia, and Russian MESBG community has a huge preference to magic over shooting. The preference is so strong that 7/10 lists would have 0 shooting but almost guaranteed Witch King or any other Nazgul with some nasty stuff up in their sleeves. Shooting begins to appear in the lists above 700-750 points, but that's usually 2-3 models with bows mostly with the purpose of wasting some time in between rounds of combat. 2. Russian community also likes playing with war beasts like Mumaks, War beasts of gorgoroth and dwarf chariots. 3. I guess I'm still considered a new player with just over a year of proper tournament gaming experience. Can't brag about 100+ games played with Gandalf (about a couple dozen though) The way I found Gandalf being extremely powerful is through an green alliance with Fiefdoms. I mostly run a fiefdoms army with Prince Imrahil and Forlong as my two main heroes and Gandalf fits really well not only providing strong defense from any casters in the opponents list, but also controlling the war beasts in the mid and late stages of the battle. Provided the low dice values you need to roll to successfully cast a spell with Gandalf, he typically uses no more than 2 of his will points per turn in the opening part of the game, and by the time the opponents will store is depleted he doesn't need a bunch of dice to hunt for the 6... The price point, however, really makes Gandalf only playable in the large format (750 points and more, i guess) In my 20-something games I have not lost Gandalf once, though I certainly agree it is very difficult to play him properly.

Veterans suffer from PTSD :) Enjoyed the list revision! I would have one addition...as far as i know WoMT Archers still have the Shieldwall rule ... if u equip the with a shield they do not get the +1 defence but don't they get +1 for ajecent guys still? Or did they already Errata it?

I'd bump Pippin to bottom of C tier. Purely because he's got Resistant to Magic. It's not that great but keeping that shield wall active is pretty vital and Ingold only has the one Will and Boromir will need his for resisting spells targeted at him. Someone like Elrond who can try natures Wrath for free every turn can run that Will down in 4 turns max but a cheeky extra dice each time and always the ability for someone to resist as long as Pippin is nearby is kinda nice. Same goes for Instill Fear or any other area effect spells. Heroic Defence and two fate can also make him an emergency speedbump.

Beregond on foot, with 3 citadel guards with longbows are 60 points, and all have bodyguard. Sit them on an objective and they are gold

Drop Gandalf 20 points and give him a casting re-roll like Saruman and Witch King has and he's perfect. Even better if he gives a 6 inch courage buff, or just treat Gandalf's Maiar presence like a Warhorn, which would be very fitting lorewise. I know Minas Tirith doesn't really need the courage buff but every increase helps. Losing ONE courage test against terror can absolutely obliterate a formation of Warriors in shieldwall. What other things could make Gandalf good? If his profile had no changes, what point cost would make him worth taking? I have a bone to pick with you guys about Aragorn however. It doesn't really sound like you're considering what the free Might point means for the army. The ability to basically never spend might to take the initiative even in turns where you lose priority is incredible. You make your opponent drain might and possibly waste it while you lose absolutely nothing. But yes, I agree, he IS still too expensive. As he is now, he should be A tier. But if they bump him to F7, where he really ought to be to be honest, then he's worth what he's set to right now. Another thing worth considering is what he does for Hurin. I don't know if you guys have somehow never had ugly situations with Hurin, but I have. 2 attacks is rough on any beatstick, him hovering around Aragorn like some kind of Kingsguard is absolutely epic. He'll always benefit from that banner effect AND get the extra re-roll. 4 dice rolls minimum, 5 if he gets to charge. Aragorn and Hurin combined means you just mow down troops fast, and wipe out monsters quickly while Ingold holds the line. Still though, here's hoping we eventually get some actual Gondor Legendary Legions... I think there's one thing with Cirion that is being overlooked, and that's spending only 140 points to get 6 more points of might in the form of Murin and Drar. I think it's quite a bargain and worth discussing. Is it amazing? No, but I do think it is pretty good, and a very critical thing to consider. This is particularly good if you get a lot of cheap heroes to get a lot of warriors. I agree about Osgiliath Vets, they are awful. No shieldwall means they're just crap, sorry but it's true. F5 is overrated anyways, you cannot change my mind. Maybe it just depends on the competitive scene in your region, but in mine so many players are always bringing elves. F5 just means you get a 1/3 chance of winning ties, that's it. What matters more for Minas Tirith is survivability and killing power. D7 is critical. Strength 2 bows needing to roll twice is a big deal. Strength 3, which is basically everything except some humans, morannon orcs, and dwarves needs 6s. D7 also means you can comfortably feint/stab with your front ranks. There's also the synergy with Fiefdoms to consider. For this reason, the Warriors of Minas Tirith are well placed, but I'd put Fountain Court up in S with them. I've used them so many times to just charge a few models and shield to tie them down, it's great. I am shocked that citadel guard with spears are in A though. Wild, I just don't see it. Rangers with spears are so much better. I'd probably only consider citadel guard if I mounted them and gave them a longbow, sent them off to objectives in the corners and shoot from there.

yeah tier lists are back :)

I agree on Gandalf. It's a decent profile, but it's not worth 240 points mounted on a horse what may be killed by one stray arrow. He needs something more, like a Third attack (why not? IT'S 240 POINTS!), the ability to cast while engaged or even just make Glamdring into a Masterwork. A fully powered Witchking on fellbeast and Crown of Morgul it's 15 points cheaper than Gandalf on Shadowfast. And for 15 points less I've got a unit that flies and has brutal power attacks as well as a reroll that it's basically one free will, or better since it works for both Casting and Resist. Where I don't agree it's the King of Men. On his own, it's fine. But, fact is, to play a King of Men you are giving up every other named hero. In an army that depends on their named heroes more than many others. Once you have him fully ready, it's 85 points on horse. 5 less than Hurin on horse. And I do think that most players will rather have Hurin. Kings of Men don't have access to strike, nor they have any special rule that makes it worth the losses. The only time KoM are considered is as green allies to Eorl the Young. Fighting against 2 kings of men and a couple of captain was a cakewalk. with no named heroes, the whole army has nothing to defend agaisnt anything more than a shieldwall to shieldwall fight. Without its named heroes, Minas Tirith is left to dice alone.

You'd have to have a rather specific scenario where (1) Gandalf would die to shooting through Blinding Light, and (2) any other Hero from Minas Tirith would have survived in the same situation. Maybe Gandalf is positioned in a more exposed way? "Because he has Blinding Light, he's (nearly) immune to shooting!" or something similar. I just cannot see how that could happen otherwise...

Faramir is a top 3 book character, and I love running him. So it kills me to say this, but he's kind of bad for the points. An extra attack and wound, or a special rule like a 12" stand fast would be delightful

Matebros total MESBG n00b here, can one just ally with the fellowship and include a few of its characters or do I have to include all of them? Would it be correct to assume that the fellowship characters cannot lead any troops? Thanks for the good lists!

Hi question how many crebain are required in the war of Rohan dunland scenarios I can't find the information needed and I don't have the book

I wish Osgiliath Veterans were strength 4, that would make so much sense and it would be more practical.

Tier lists ftw

do tier list tier list. Rate your tier list videos best to worsy

I will keep Gandalf on C only bcs on high points matches he can boost one of those powerfull killin' heroes (Aragorn/Hurin/even Boromir if you are not afraid on losing the army bonus) with fortify spirit. Apart from that, he can do some "normal stuff" like blast on enemy cavalery (always trying to get a hero on the way) and then get a charge to that prone models. It is not worth 240 pst for that. But he still can do some stuff (compare to Pip). Now, one i think you're sleepping a bit is Aragorn. At least i will put him Mid A (AT LEAST XD). I will talk about my experience with him ofc. Knowing the fact that Minas Tirith is not really good at killing he is one of your options to do THE KILLING. Wounding on 4 (3 if you take the two handed) is crazy. Apart from that he has the free point of might that is crucial at the end of the game (if you keep him alive). I know that for the troops he does not do to much (compare to Boromir for example) But what he does against the oponents army is mounstrous. The way i play with Aragorn is all around him. And so far it had good results. I do not take an army thinking i will kill my oponent, but to hold the line as Aragorn do the killing (with some help ofc. A.k.A Hurin). Ofc there are gonna be games when hes gonna struggle. i had one he was with one Rider of Rohan for 3 turns. But even then, as soon he went free, he killed Gameling/Theoden/and left only one wound on Eomer. And there are gonna be other games that he just destroys. Yesterday i played with him (it was a 1300 poins game, have to said it) and with the backup of Gandalf, he killed Khamul on fell beast, Witch King on fell beast, a Morgul Captain on horse, two banners, and like seven or eight warriors. So i think (at least on my experience) he deserves a A, at least. Now, sorry if i wrote something bad, i do not speak english as my main language, but i love this game, and wanted to gave my opinion on the matter. Good tier list boys

Me going to my first tournament and playing for first against Ellesar and GtW at 800pts and losing, then seeing this list. 😢

You should not forget that the osgiliat veteran has more Courage. With the Army bonus they have C5 and don't realy need Bodyguard. Also they can have Speer and Bow unlike the citadel Guard. The Rangers with speer might be still better but have less courage and only D4. But yehhh they are not a good unit.

Oh yes more teir lists. Beregond should be S.

Aragorn in B tier completely unwatchable

Elessar is at least A tier, he's a wrecking ball that wins games by himself, wounding on 3s, being a banner and free might which is what wins games 90% of the time makes him brilliant and as for boromir, overrated, he struggles to kill and boosting a tanky army is nice, but not essential

Faramir is C tier and it's a hill I'll die on. Anything he can do another hero can do better. Cav striker? Húrin is better and cheaper. Infantry commander? Ingold does it better and is cheaper. Ranger commander? MADRIL DOES IT BETTER! Gah, stop running Faramir people, it's a trap!

Aragorn should be F7 otherwise he’s just not ok! Bozza with banner is F7 for fs sake! Gandalf is ok on shadowfax he can run in magic and run out! Also S5! Vets are just underwhelming! I prefer rangers or citadel guards with longbow! Hurin is fun